Wet rotor synchronous dishwasher motor

An interesting design of dishwasher pump motor, re-purposing it to be a blower motor for a small dust collector.
woodgears.ca/motors/wet_rotor.html
This design of motor, though not very flexible, is surprisingly efficient.
Based on the comments, wet rotor motors are often used in aquarium pumps, heating circulation pumps and fountain pumps
Blower housing experiments:
• Blower housing shape e...
Dust collector blower:
• Building a dust collec...

[@dozer1642]

Oh my gosh that little thing rummaging around the shop is so adorable. I used to see one of those around my ankles too. Mine turned into a teenager five years ago. She is still my little angel but I do miss those days.

[@dozer1642]

PunchingMegaTree, I’ll have a beer with my precious little girl every once in a while now that she’s of drinking age and it’s weird for me because I still think of her as my little girl, she is the most amazing person I’ve ever known and I’m so proud of her. I hope I get to watch a little grandbaby rooting around the floor of a shop one of these years. The most amazing thing in the world is raising children. Nothing else in the world comes close.

[@originalmianos]

This wet rotor is very common in submersible pumps for aquariums. Pretty much 100% of them.

[@AverageJoe2020]

And central heating circulating pumps,

[@brothyr]

a quick google search shows a good amount of information on 'wet rotors'. Not exactly technical specs or anything but enough to get a basic understanding.

[@Ronke01]

and submersible pond pumps, equipped with ceramic bearings most of the time.

[@Helveteshit]

I assume filling it with water and plugging the holes, will lead to overheating due lack of change of water flow? So if one were to run it in optimal condition. one might need some way to change the water out consistently. Then again, the magnetic rotor and similar can be used to create DC with water streams or similar. Albeit not very good at getting started, the magnet will provide resistance which should increase the production output. Hence you use DC breaks on Windmills to get them running at optimal RPM to produce more Watt per rotation. If my Knowledge on Generators isn't a tad outdated. Most of my knowledge is about installing it and finding out the faults in them. Not making them into generators. But I do recall a Rotor with a magnet tends to be easier to turn into a Generator than one, that isn't.

[@ElectraFlarefire]

Pond pumps, pet bowl pumps, many, many places. It's a great design. Wet stainless steel and glass fiber filled nylon bushings that form the case(In a pond, lubricated too by pond scum/algae:). Coil of wire potted in resin in the case. And they pretty much work forever so long as you clean them every so often.

[@1tombensky]

Delighted to see your daughter in the shop. Never too early to expose them to tools and making things.

[@purplealice]

Your little girl already shows signs of growing up with a great degree of mechanical aptitude! (My dad raised me that way.) There is no such thing as "no user-serviceable parts inside"! :-)

[@FaenumVena]

Ace Lightning i was brought up the same way, when something breaks, i usualy take it appart to find out whats inside and learn how it works. Unfortunatly, when my dishwasher broke, it was the pump that went, and the thing was not easy to get into. At a year old, i would have expected that dishwasher to still be in warrantee? Or do you not have such great support over in the USA

[@TheTechnosasquatch]

Matthias is in Canada, but I imagine they opted out of getting an extended warranty for a better sale price.

[@FaenumVena]

TheTechnosasquatch we have statutory rights here, which is 6 years on stuff like this for manufacturing faults. Too many people dont know that and dont understand what it means. Obvioisly if u abuse it, its not covered, but random failure is covered.

[@purplealice]

I've replaced a couple of dishwasher motors - usually you have to contact the manufacturer to get a replacement motor, and sometimes it's more expensive than seems reasonable. They'd rather sell you a whole new dishwasher instead of a simple part.

[@idezilla]

Moving the sawdust from one bucket to another, fun !

[@yorgle]

I've recently fixed a few water pumps that had a similar mechanism... (fishtank pumps and a standalone water pump.) The entire impeller and shaft/magnet were in a wet environment, and the motor windings were enclosed in a waterproof housing.

[@pav1541]

it amazes me how u can take apart and basically engineer all kinds of new stuff ... i wish i had a teacher like u in school or like my frens dad or something ... would love to learn wat u do ... love ur dads shop too .... must have been a great growing up in such a productive environment ... love u channel mate !!keep it coming

[@GeneraleRus]

I love that every time Matthias gets to build a new blower, he gets more and more crappy materials he has laying to build one! that's what i call recycling to the fullest

[@MikeTheMaker1]

Clever yet simple way to figure out if the balance is off and where the extra weight is

[@DeDeNoM]

So, you Need to pull the choke to get the motor to start? Sounds kind familiar

[@matthiaswandel]

ha ha, hadn't thought of it that way!

[@experiencingtechnicaldiffi5184]

Maybe build an iris for the inlet closed with a solenoid powered by the starting current. Because a butterfly would be too easy. I have an old carb from a garage sale with an iris for the choke. Never could find out what it was used on.

[@Chrishm0]

Aren't perpetual energy machines powered by negative comments on KZbin????

[@matthiaswandel]

if that were the case, they'd have lots of power! Or maybe just negative power. That's probably it!

[@OtherTheDave]

Matthias Wandel IIRC, "traditional" wormholes need negative energy to keep the mouth stable.... you might be onto something huge! 😂

[@loola456]

I'm fascinated by your ability to reverse engineer anything. Next up, Women.

[@_oven]

Electrons carry negative energy.

[@purpleidea]

No, they have a negative charge.

[@Ballacha]

this is the same type of motor used in filters for fish tanks. their advantages are safe (because the moving part itself doesn't need a seal, so you don't need to worry about wearing on the seal at all) and super quiet (my 9W filter motor's noise level can't even be properly measured because it's lower than ambient noise). imo a more interesting way to salvage this type of motor is to make a small hydro-generator out of it. i'd certainly love to see Matt do that.

[@factsdontcareaboutyourfeel7568]

Good to see you finally got yourself an apprentice!

[@zeeslangyacht7916]

Ich finde die Idee mit dem teilweise in Wasser versenkten Motor cool. Vor allem ist das Konzept interessant, dass der Motor 100% Prozent Wasserdicht ist, dadurch, dass die Welle nicht durchgesteckt werden muss.

[@thenextstepp]

Kids are awesome aren't they? My daughter used to have her own set of tools she would play with while I was working on stuff.

[@Canilash]

Nice trick with the washer as a spacer to trace the width of the housing!

[@MRrwmac]

Kids are amazing and do things with a great amount of similarity. We watch my granddaughters during the day and my 1.7 year old sits on my workbench playing with safe tools, and also fills one bucket to the other and back again (as Harriet does). I have seen their similarity in Germany, Korea and Russia. Amazing little humans!

[@KuhnOber1]

Loved the little one running around the shop.

[@Dqrnan]

Love your videos; you inspire and give me great ideas...Thank you. I was going to ask about the lubrication of this motor, but you answered it in your closing statement. Thanks again.

[@emeraldgypsyheart]

I've watched your channel for quite some time and I enjoy watching you manufacture things from pieces & parts!

[@KarlBunker]

Fascinating stuff, and your daughter made me laugh every time she was on camera.

[@GeekyGarden]

This explains the chugging noise my dishwasher makes as it finishes draining.

[@marcsimonsen1578]

Love the toddler running around! It's just like my shop!

[@comma1981]

1. Cool. I also learned something new about motors. 2. Your kid playing on the counter is so adorable. I have a 2.5 years old kid (boy) and I can't imagine him playing so quietly alone for an hour (my assumption of the time it took you)

[@Najvalsa]

That rotor is like what you'd fine on a water pump, like pumps for liquid cooling computer components in either open loop or closed loop cooling solutions.

[@albertlagerman]

I've seen those motors on newer fountain pumps. I didn't know what they were at the time, but that is some pretty interesting technology

[@patrol681]

As usual Matthias, your very interesting and informative experiments never cease to fascinate and entertain me. Keep up the good work, - I learn something new every time. Ed

[@kwinters5550]

10:21 When he unplugs the blower, it reminds me of when we were at my doctor, and the TV at my doctor was bothering me due to animated things, and I couldn't find the remote, so I unplugged the TV itself to get it to stop bothering me.

[@dhollm]

Wet rotors are common in refrigeration compressors. They typically have to circulate refrigerant and oil mixed to keep them lubricated.

[@johnasumaa9662]

Your apprentice seems quite industrious.

[@linod7265]

Woow Matthias your a practical Genius!!! I admire your videos and your work. Congratulation from Mexico.

[@bahaar5215]

They grow so fast. I remember your daughter when she was really little

[@Davegbuf]

Interesting but I wish I understood more about electronics and motors. Maybe I keep watching more videos. Nice job but the "like" this time goes for your toddler for being so cute, and learn about tools at such an early age. :)

[@alonalgr660]

sounds like the bearings are hydro-dynamic bearings. if they are they won't last for long in this setup. awesome video as always! thanks

[@owntor1]

This reminds me of a an aquarium filter impeller. Water lubricates the rotor in that case too.

[@arrenbie]

Love the way your kid is helping you tidy up ;-)

[@rayelliott2743]

no wonder your shop stay so clean

[@JasonDesnoyers]

The water is also a cooling method so the motor doesn't overheat. Most circulator pumps are wet rotor.

[@Schranzoslavek]

"It sucks a lot harder" -Matthias 2017

[@abhishekgourav6144]

Your motor reflexes are good...

[@zweg1321]

I think it is great your daughter is willing to come and play wile you make things My son couldn't be bothered not even now that they are grown My father did to me what you do and those memories are my fondest memories of my father

[@Michursky]

you can get those motors in aquarium bucket filters, pretty much with comparable sizes

[@donbot5000]

basically huge aquarium pump motor...might come in handy

[@Liofa73]

Lots of other neat parts to save on that dishwasher, springs, wheels, rollers....

[@5h4mr0Ck]

Nice shot of the bipedal dust collector. Just need to improve it's efficiency.

[@RRaucina]

millions of wet rotor motors - mainly water circulation pumps like Grundfos and little giant etc. My Grundfos is 35 years old and hard water of 315 ppm. Amazing. Of course it was built in the USA. All submersible well pump motors are wet rotor, but they only admit filtered water as needed.

[@mathiasdm98]

Nice video as always! I remeber that this type of motor is use for pumps in fish tanks.( At least the pumps that I use are) just a simple design that can be submerged in water if the rest of the electronics are cast in some sort of epoxy.

[@qwertt14]

I didn't understand half of this but I like it

[@donaldasayers]

Wet rotors are also used in all domestic central heating systems. Permanent magnet rotor type motors are more efficient than the usual shaded pole induction motors used previously.

[@MicraHakkinen]

If anyone's looking for a similar motor, it's a very common type that has been used in many dishwasher for at least the last 15 years or so. Whirpool, Kitchenaid, Bauknecht, Indesit, Hotpoint and IKEA are some of the brand names that almost all use this model pump. There are multiple variations of this pump, but in most cases it's just small design changes and upgrades over the years and in most cases they're all compatible (often the only difference is the plug). This also means if you're going to repair your somewhat older dishwasher that has a pump like this there's a good chance you can use a newer, more silent version of this pump.

[@rolandvos]

Lovely new dust collector....

[@thomassutrina7469]

You suggest there is a choice induction or PM rotor. Actually the large air gap and wet rotor disqualify's an induction motor. The magnetic field in an induction motor is created by slippage, rotor speed is less then the magnetic field rotation speed. The rotor is a transformer with a very low frequency, slippage. the rotor current is the secondary induced current so the wire resistance and the moving of the field in the iron will create heat. And some current may flow in the water. Problem one is the transformer will be poor with a large air gap. The PM has a fixed rotor magnetic field. Second problem water has dissolved solids that will come out of solution in the heated water in the air gap. The motor would build up lime that will seize the motor rotor to the plastic can.

[@kareno8634]

I thought that was your Boss, [or shop Inspector] helping with those 'Special' things ~ It's not easy using big dust pans; More Fun digging in saw dust. ~ Teach Her well ! ~ U always Amaze me with your crafts ~ * peace

[@GSMSfromFV]

9:08 _ That's not a toddler, that's a tool organizer! ;o)

[@eliignatoff6864]

And a sawdust re-organizer

[@villeqq4789]

Doesn't matter what you say matthias, I believe you.

[@snomaduru5831]

You are very talented

[@ElectraFlarefire]

These are also one of the few motors that don't rely on induced or conducted electric current.. A shaded pole motor's rotor submerged in water, would short, cause electrolysis and wreck the rotor without taking steps to insulate it and thus further reducing the distance between stater and rotor.

[@matthiaswandel]

Not sure about that. The voltage induced in the rotor is very low (remember, it's shorted), so it might be too low a voltage for electrolysis to happen

[@playersidekick]

Very informative. I really enjoy watching these experiments

[@jakob1379]

Love the joke about perpetual motion! 😂 and nice video as always. Keep them coming!

[@michaellicitra7632]

The motor is overloaded and just can't turn the volume that the wheel you made at the required speed before the electronics shots down due to thermal limit of the driver circuits. Great job but this motor just doesn't have the guts you need. Nice job, you are an inventive engineer.

[@timhurkmans3788]

I just noticed you're over a million subscribers

[@jeroenweij]

The waterpump could have made a great waterplay table for your daughter :)

[@NKWoodworks]

Same motor found in most household aquarium pumps.

[@Stan7670]

Very interesting but can we have more video of your shop assistant?

[@chrisgonzales81]

Love the shots with the your kid

[@ComandanteJ]

1 year old? Isnt 2 year warranty standard over there?

[@allluckyseven]

Did you throw the rest of that washing machine away? Because it looks super neat, maybe it could be used for something else.

[@John-sq7uf]

This Motor is very similar to the the motors used in aquarium filters that hang on the back of aquariums.

[@tonybp965]

Watch little Wandel make a helicopter with the parts she's playing with. Lol

[@kookyflukes9749]

Description of motor type and why it was made that way by the manufacturer very interesting. Wonder if amazon.com sell new brains coz mine just exploded.

[@magnusnielsen2648]

thank you Matthias!

[@HenkAlles]

Most central heating boilers for home use have a water lubricated pump

[@throttlebottle5906]

correct, until you get into large volume pumps, then they have sealed pumps, driven with external induction motor with spring/rubber drive coupling

[@sierravmax]

You need to get motors from older GE dishwashers. Most drain pumps from washing machines are made this way also.

[@AnastasisGrammenos]

Can you make something to seal the motor from the wooden part and put some oil or another lubricant in there, so it won't overheat from the absence of water?

[@ShaukatHakim]

Always very interesting!

[@jbkltc4469]

are these motors dependent on the water around the shaft for lubrication? Or would they work dry on the long run? did you use any kind of lubrication when assembling it back?

[@ajnunya6649]

The style of motor has been around for a very long time, the power filters on my fish tanks used the same motor idea over 35 years ago so being very old technology ya might have to read a book rather than rely on mis-information on the Internet :P

[@IdeaSketchBuild]

Can someone explain the rating of the motor? If it's 120Vac and 0.9A, shouldn't it be 108W instead of 55W?

[@matthiaswandel]

Look up "power factor"

[@RxGuy95]

Great videos, have you ever thought about doing collaboration video w/the Samurai Carpenter? Would be neat to see joint project utilizing both of your skill sets.

[@mrezniable]

So, where is green colour on this blower? All presented data isn't nothing new to me because my profession, but are simple and clear presented to wide range of DIY people. Water cooled motors goes burned out and overheated if running without water, rubber or silicone parts, etc.

[@skimbulshanks]

This type of pump motor is used in the marine aquarium hobby

[@Brassmonger]

This can be a good generator.

[@maddox0110]

It's also called a magnetic coupled motor (translation from Dutch).

[@Meticularius]

5/30/2019 USA Grandpa Bill: Matthias, you're just about the smartest man I have ever met.

[@kwinters5550]

10:08 It reminds me of McEnroe's Farm.

[@DFlame69]

Maybe you can replace the bushings with ball bearings and get even longer life on the motor.

[@levistrnad2965]

You never want too pry something of with uneven force on a shaft or it'll bend

[@metheone4]

Nice little assistant you have,i didnt know there is a slip hole for child labour in CA!? ^ ^ oh and btw:Do you permanent stream with the rasp pi cam and if yes,is there a public URL to see the stream?

[@learnerlearns]

Always fascinating and edifying!

[@MaikEletrica]

Very nice!

[@sharukhanklesaria2365]

Awesome thanks so much, I ve learnt so much from your videos, thanks !

[@dtiydr]

Its 5 years late now but the rotor should have as little gap as possible to the outlet edge or it will suck air from the output and make the output much worse.

[@IgorZagayko]

Cute helper ;)

[@williamdawson3353]

Super interesting video.

[@dominiquenoel939]

Hello. What about lubrification ? Normally rotor turn with water around it. I think this water contribute to lubrification of bearing. Now, with rotor on air, I'm not sure bearing will survive long time.

[@matthiaswandel]

that's why I oiled them, like I said at the end of the video

[@dominiquenoel939]

Matthias Wandel Oups. Sorry, my English understanding is not so efficient.

[@vedranlatin1386]

Putting the thermodynamics laws aside, people seem to forget we already have a pretty free energy source in solar panels. Sure you have to pay for them, but then again all those bogus "free energy" kludges cost something to make in the first place and solar panels have the obvious advantage in actually producing energy - point beeing it's cheaper per watt to buy panels then trying to make perpetuum mobile machines even if they actually worked :)

[@kordin113]

saw the wires taped up at 8:30. Did you pop the breaker

[@matthiaswandel]

no, was just afraid they might touch.

[@knucklecorn]

more likely it's because Matthias knows it'll wander and move the wires.

[@kordin113]

knucklecorn he didn't tape them earlier. That's why I was wondering

[@evil00horse]

Man I hope the petite Wandel is wearing ear protection.

[@xl000]

I came to the comment section to see comments about his kid and I'm not disappointed.

[@nitroboom1282]

Turns out these motors aren’t often controlled electronically and run directly of the ac lines

[@jasonpatterson8091]

Would lubricating the motor with grease work, do you think?

[@Fummy007]

When you plugged it in you left the metal exposed and nearly touched it. Was it not mains voltage?

[@jonathanmulzer17]

So don't touch it. And even if you do the risk is pretty minimal. Not that big of a deal for a very short term test.

[@m.s.l.7746]

Should have kept it as a pump...btw, do you seal the impeller to avoid balancing issues with fluctuations in humidity?