Episode 103: The Differences Between Builders and Contractors

[@joemartino6976]

That third group to which Matt refers is heavily populated by flippers. Flippers focus on cosmetic issues and are often willing to overlook underlying issues less obvious without a lot more detective work. My wife assigned an apt phrase for my way of doing things a long time ago: "When in doubt, rip it out!" In other words, I feel compelled to fix everything.....which flies directly against the profit goals that flippers look for. Its a way of doing things that I'll never be good at.

[@Treehandler]

The devil is in the details and unfortunately flippers are mainly focusing on replacing the big ticket items so that new homeowners will think they will have an easy transition from renter to owner with few major repairs for a couple decades. It’s the missteps in installation by cheap subcontractors that add up over time and unless there’s a housing shortage or crisis, the first time homebuyer isn’t going to have as much equity in their home when they decide to move into a forever home. I would have a hard time rehabbing a home unless the target buyer would be looking for that forever home. We don’t give enough credit to how risky it is to be a builder/contractor/flipper and how risky it is to hire them.

[@TheLatinMass]

Preaching to the choir here. I relate completely, and can’t get passed it when people debate me for remodeling as if I might live in a house forever, even if I move a few years later.

[@trevorwinter5071]

My father advised me 70 years ago “ The lowest quote is seldom the best value” 60 years later this still holds true in all forms of contracting.

[@stevenbaczekarchitect9431]

Agreed

[@savvylouk8037]

I’m building my house right now and I’m an owner builder in southeast ga It’s a tough job dealing with sub contractors I’ve already been ripped off during the foundation stages. So I understand the concern that you guys have about someone representing themselves when building a house

[@stevenbaczekarchitect9431]

It's a reality unfortunately

[@savvylouk8037]

Yes it’s a hard reality but I’m pushing through Thanks

[@joemurphy4517]

I totally agree. It's hard to find good resources. I'm building 2 houses in SC next to Savanah. Owning a national remodeling company. I bring in my own resources with RVs instead of dealing with new local resources. I'm doing a high performance build so most subs haven't ever worked on high performance builds. I figured if I'm going to pay someone to learn high performance it might as well be my in house resources.

[@agisler87]

I'm doing the same thing right now though I am only in the design phase. I know it's going to be tough and Matt makes a lot of great points but it's about the achievement for me, not the cost savings.

[@TheDkbohde]

I didn’t expect to watch this whole episode but I wanted to sample it for tomorrow morning. Ended up watching the whole thing instead of going to sleep. Good stuff

[@stevenbaczekarchitect9431]

Thank you!!

[@stevenlight5006]

Onyea is the person in charge the correct person for that job .all true experience pays it does not cost

[@Susan508.1]

This was a very good conversation. I think it comes from specializing too much in the field. Nowadays, the framer doesn’t get taught the whole picture, the specialized contractor misses information because of lack information of what happens before they do their work and then they don’t care who’s after them.

[@eugeniustheodidactus8890]

Oddly enough, this was a very compelling conversation;) Much respect.

[@stevenbaczekarchitect9431]

Thank you

[@eugeniustheodidactus8890]

@@stevenbaczekarchitect9431 Thankful to Matt for bringing us such good content that showcases skillful, competent and humble pros such as yourself. How great a thing is it that your son and daughter will follow in your footsteps!

[@ntamsma]

As a construction attorney in central Texas, these are the stories that start many of our cases....

[@buddyrevell511]

The stories are a construction attorney in central Texas? 🤔

[@ntamsma]

@@buddyrevell511 yesnt.

[@michaelomalley6726]

Awesome conversation - it makes me realize that the thing that a good team has is a group of people that care.

[@tinoslaponi8514]

Owner builder can often be built better for the money. You just need a ownerbuilder that is actually obsessed with the process. Spend a year on a crew and learn stuff. Then contract your own.

[@SolidMikeP]

Matt...I love your honesty, especially in CONSTRUCTION where there is a lot of MACHO I CAN DO ANYTHING attitude. I am share your same experience,

[@WiskyDuck]

I’ve provided finance and operations consulting since the mid-1980’s (US domestics and international) and I found this interaction informative and thought provoking. Well done. Thank you!

[@williewalker5]

I am 70% through my first/only owner build project, it's a 750 Sqft, 2 level, 1bd, 1.5 bath and it is going well. I think the part about. Being an avid researcher is valid, and the fact that I work my normal job from home and I am able to pop out to the backyard and make sure everything is the way I want or address any issues. I know people say it's tough but it hasn't been for me and after listening to this I think WFH is super helpful.

[@tarahall1025]

Have you found your selection of contractors has limited the mistakes you have caught?

[@Padoinky]

Steve is spot on - PM is different than contractor, which is different than a builder. A General contractor should be able to understand what and when to bring in the Craftsman/SME - site project management runs the plan, the architect/engineer designs and plans the project, the general contractor bids the plan and obtains the subs and trades to bid their scope and sequence the schedule… Quality requires expertise and you’ll need to pay for it

[@stevenbaczekarchitect9431]

"Good things cost money"

[@tonycortez8556]

Being an owner builder isn’t for everyone for sure, but if you’ve been in the construction industry for a while you can pull it of, I’m an electrician with an electrical contractor lic. Owner builder and haven’t had any issues, also now a lot of trades guys so maybe that’s helped a lot.

[@ainslie187]

I would call the third group “hustlers.” I always scratch my head when I hear people say they own three or four businesses, it’s difficult enough to achieve mastery in one field, how are you able to produce quality products and services when you run three different businesses? This country is rife with these people in every industry.

[@andrewschafer8986]

They may own three businesses but they don’t operate three businesses.

[@aknorth1053]

the issue with doing the subcontracting yourself if the things you don't know you don't know is huge and discovery them on a multiple 100ks project is a pretty rough classroom

[@mistertwo6113]

What an excellent conversation!

[@WhiteytheLab]

There's nothing wriong with being a 'contract aggregator' is that's your lane. I was glad to hear both of these guys have women working for them, and they understand she can be wildly competent in their lane. I'm excellent at sales, estimating, and project management. Conversely, I've known brilliant technicians that will never be able to manage the money correctly... After watching this, I started considering my team. I called a mechanical contractor that I love to work with - the kinda guy that you can hand him the drawings, come back in 3 days, and it'll be perfect. I'm a 30 year mechanical engineer that's worked on $1B projects, from both the engineering and construction sides (MEP and GCs).

[@skypuppet9]

We installed an air source heat pump (Artic) to run a radiant heating unit with Warmboard system a couple years ago on a retrofit here in Bozeman, MT. Works amazingly well.

[@Michael-vi1kn]

Wow guys this is such an informative session. I am having such a problem finding contractors that take an approach like you guys. When I mention some of the details I have learned from your show they look at me as having two heads. Need help in PA Poconos area

[@constructivainspections]

Steve knows his stuff.

[@6by6by6]

My best defense against poor business relationships in home construction has always been requiring all subcontractors to meet with and sign contracts in the offices of my attorney, that leaves no doubt in their minds of my intentions to hold them accountable.. I will add my attorney is a silent partner in my business 😅

[@seamusmcgrath8250]

Really enjoyed this, thank you!!!

[@stevenbaczekarchitect9431]

Very welcome

[@SchondorfEnt]

I'm a General Building Contractor, and that's how I refer to myself. I would say this. There's a grey area. To me, Builders build homes, and they can be General Contractors that do it, and more often than not are. But you can be a Builder, and hire General Contractors to manage your Builds. General Contractors in my opinion, have the skills to organize construction on a jobs, big or small, and some can self perform as well, to a degree that varies. Some GC's are focused on remodeling and don't have the depth to build a complete ground up, while others may do both, and then there's GC's that just focus on New Construction.

[@mohedaicebear]

only 15 mins in but I've already taken away a huge lesson. "There is no savings in building" and everyone who has built something knows that. I think if builders and contractors could get that point home and present how spending a little less on this could effect another part of the home.

[@tarahall1025]

I have GC'd two projects (200k) and taking on GCing our own house now. I have a deep respect for quality skilled craftsman- my worry is framing techniques vary from region- if I see a 'well-built' stick framed roof in Michigan- it may not be how they do it in the Southeast. Are there any videos showing consistent techniques in these trades?

[@rinabinette]

Great video with such wise advice on building. Just a suggestion though :) ....I would double the zip ties on the BUILD sign too.

[@Mark-rw3kw]

If someone is building their own home and just hiring a bunch of subs, the subs are not likely to care as much about the quality of their work because there is very unlikely to be any repeat business involved with that customer.

[@jeffb5798]

The story @28:30 (where the contract spec was for 24" on center, and the contractor built 16" on center) was interesting. After bringing it to their attention, what happens? I would imagine that they would need to tear down what they built and then build it to spec (for no additional labor cost), but what about the materials (the lumber)? I would imagine that a lot of additional lumber would need to be purchased. Does the guy/contractor who didn't follow the spec need to pay for the materials? Or does the homeowner get hit with an additional cost?

[@FlyingSagittarius]

The contractor would most likely walk off the job, forfeiting the rest of the contract and sticking the owner with the task of finding another contractor to clean up the mistake. This is assuming the contractor does not take pride in their work and there is no personal relationship or performance bond involved, though; if that were the case, the contractor would cover the costs of the mistake out of pocket. Since the mistake was caused by the contractor's negligence, the contractor can't go after the owner for additional costs.

[@raymondpeters9186]

Pumicecrete is by far the best building material on the planet Pumicecrete is a mixture of pumice cement and water mixed and poured into a set of reusable forms walls are poured from 12"to 24" thick pumicecrete is fireproof termite proof rust rot and mold proof non toxic and has a high R value and good sound attenuation solid poured walls means no critters can live in your walls Pumicecrete can be built for a fraction of the cost and time and pumice is one of the few building materials that can go directly from the mine to the job site ready to use without any additional possessing and zero waste Google all the walls of my house are made of pumicecrete Take care Ray

[@jezza6575]

I bought a piece of property so I had a local builder/contractor come out to look at the site and give me and idea what I could and could not do. Now mind you he’s no Build Show level guy but he’s really liked and respected in the area for his work. He ended up being an hour and a half late without any kind of call or text so needless to say I wouldn’t let him build a shed in my backyard. I’ve since interacted with him and I’m so happy he was late that day because he’s pretty much an a$$ and we woulda butted heads all the way through. He does decent work but it’s just basic house building and people in my area have absolutely no knowledge of how things have progressed with building a home…sad really!

[@stevenbaczekarchitect9431]

Better to know early

[@jezza6575]

@@stevenbaczekarchitect9431 Exactly what I thought! I’ve been watching you guys for so many years and researching home building that I feel like I honestly know more how to do it right than most of the local contractors. Thanks for the education guys!

[@patrickkenny2077]

So, is it a contractor that uses zip-ties to hang the "build" sign and a builder that does it with proper hardware? ;) Loved the discussion on staying in your lane...as someone who constantly fails to do it. I'm going to end up being stuck as an owner-contractor for a solar and roofing project on my house because all the subs seem to think they are general contractors and can manage others. Instead they try to get by using their roofing crew to do framing and siding modifications. I totally respect having the right people for the job, but when you can't get them it is painful.

[@Bortnm]

I dont know if Matt intends to have all these go live today.

[@BradfordsGarage]

I can respect the fact that not all are suited to build their own homes, or to be the GC on the project. However, plenty are. Search Owner/Builder and see all the success stories. Of course, not without unforeseen complications and challenges, but successful in the end, regardless. With 10’s if not 100’s of thousands saved. This just seems like a couple of dudes with inflated egos and a lack mindset afraid that too many people are going to embrace this and they won’t have as much work. Why else would they care if someone wanted to embark on a project and possibly fail? Believe me, they aren’t ‘worried about you’. They’re worried about themselves. Don’t let them scare you.

[@thedge7]

Contractors that are trying to save time and money...for themselves, by poor scheduling, "getting the cart before the horse". This sub is available now so let's use them, even though the project isn't to that phase yet. The eventually owners pay for that down the road. That's when I get a call to come out to fix the problems...

[@elliot8489]

So should I contractor my own house as I'm an industrial GC or would it be best to hire the whole thing out

[@jonerlandson1956]

builders can see the future... if not... things will not go correctly....

[@stevenbaczekarchitect9431]

Agreed

[@jonerlandson1956]

@@stevenbaczekarchitect9431 i sort of think that true for all of mankind.... we project our futures....

[@keekeemyfirstcat8410]

If you are not an expert on building, how do you tell a good contractor?

[@kalebbillig3472]

Sometimes ppl come in with low bids because they have access to stolen materials… and they almost never match exactly what the buyer wants and then they almost never have the right amount so they scab the rest together out of the minimum new materials they can find

[@sescher4487]

General contractors are the real deal. Their whole job is to problem solve. Which means good General contractors know about all trades .

[@Stangeconstruction]

I disagree with the framing to 1/32nd of an inch. I self perform most things on my jobs by myself. If you build to 1/32 of an inch, every step after is easier and gives the best outcome.

[@runmarkrunheinrich]

I can't see 1/32nd on a ruler anymore. You're right though - shortcuts early are quagmires later.

[@andrewschafer8986]

Agreed. The reality is aim for perfect and accept an 1/8”. Otherwise your kids are at risk of being too skinny. Also sometimes a 1/32 isn’t close enough and sometimes an 1-1/2” is way too accurate.

[@Stangeconstruction]

@@andrewschafer8986 That is a great way of putting it. Thanks

[@nicholasmendoza6159]

Accountability has dropped. Lawsuits have increased. Disagreements have increased. Management/overhead has increased.

[@steven7650]

There's a 4th group who've you've had on your channel. Engineers with hands on knowledge who are yes home owners who also act as the GC/builder and often do much of the work themselves. That said I struggle to get framers who can hit the studs with a nail gun. I had to teach some guys what the mulinail function is. I had to fight with masons for a saw cut on a 90degree turn in the slab that eventually cracked just as i predicted. The trades are not mentally equipped to build to the next generation of standards for a modern IRC 2025 house. AND with the population decline looking at a loss of 500k workers/year for the next 15 years strap in boys it will only get worse. That's not speculation btw, those people are already born the generation(s) each get successively smaller.

[@fishmonger7020]

There are no more builders left. Homes are built by developers almost exclusively, and in large batches of 25-50 homes. The days of a builder building one home at a time is gone. Everything is made out of tape and paper and installed with a utility knife.

[@Alphasig336]

Yeah I have never had a good experience with contractors. Include 20+ Million facilities. Granted those were Government builders and I was QA for communications and pissed contractor off because I would notify electrical issues I saw inspections communications. My issue with electricians isn’t the electrician is his journeymen and electrician who doesn’t properly QA their work. I’d love to build and GC my own ICF house. Luckily I work remote. 😊.

[@brad7571]

Sounds like the market is shrinking and tightening...

[@JerryCalvert-x9u]

Havent watched it yet, but what I know is to always stay away from any type of con man, whether he drives a tractor or not is beside the point. He is still a con man. And secondly, to build your own house yourself. Every last bit of it. Put your money toward your house, not toward some con mans schemes. Thats what I know.

[@chrisfrancis8446]

What's scary is getting a 275K builder that charges you 350K.

[@evenjesuscantsaveyouanymor6163]

Well, thoes builders don't last long. At least from what I've seen. The people that actually are good, they will be known by others. If you want a good foundation you ask a framer/plumber who made the best foundations they have worked on. It has worked for me, i ask the last guy, the inspector/project manager and go back from there and i end up at the excavator or architect. But ofc it's a lot of work and takes time not to mention that you need at least some experience. But that isn't for everyone.

[@WhiteytheLab]

I know a lot of excellent craftsman that are horrible business people.

[@esewed1980]

Middle man culture. In my area the subs are becoming middle men, hiring other subs. I can't stand it. At best, as a contractor I'm the middle man, it's my only job to find and manage subs. If I'm not at the least finding the work force what am I doing here. I talked to another "builder" the other day and he said that's just the way it's done now. We make more money doing less, and the labor makes less doing more. I will be moving toward being an actual builder and hope I don't go broke.

[@tinoslaponi8514]

If building was "truest to cost" then you would have a $200 cost per sqft difference between states 😂 illegal immigrant labor in Texas is much cheaper than Amish craftsman in the North 😂