Refining & Recovering Gold From Rings and Jewelry

Recovering the gold plating from these rings and jewelry a customer sent over for me to experiment with. These rings should have some gold plating on them and we are using some assaying and metallurgy techniques to determine the amount of gold that we can recover. We use the cupel method for determining the weight of gold in 3 rings and also melt down several rings and use an XRF gun to determine the percentages of metals in the entire alloy.
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[@haroldishoy2113]

Jason, I think your laugh when weighing the single tiny bead told the whole story, you may as well be gold panning in the Los Angeles River. Thanks for the demo and the detailed explanation.

[@mbmmllc]

Thanks!

[@chancesadventures7210]

The real lesson... EVERYTHING CHINESE IS A SCAM.. it's costing the world many Trillion a year.

[@andybaldman]

This video will make him more money than the recovery did. (And that's true for most of these recovery channels.)

[@Mrbfgray]

Yeah all the time. It's cool, looks lk fun and even useful for a few. Didn't get 2 pennies back this day.

[@brianhbinesh]

Except for sreetips.... he definitely makes a profit

[@rockbutcher]

The red colour was produced by the presence of Antimony (Sb). I've seen that in the slag from gold pours in mines where antimony occurred within the ore as stibnite. Stibnite in a floatation circuit will suppress other (perhaps gold-bearing) sulphides, so your chemistry has to be just right to avoid losing those to tails.

[@ryanoberfield756]

i thought it could have been chromium

[@Michael-rg7mx]

I thought about mercury?

[@Enjoymentboy]

So here we have literal proof that not all that glitters truly is gold.

[@mbmmllc]

Absolutely

[@WilliamS-w1n]

Especially if the rings are made in China

[@larrybobbitt8452]

You are the best Jason.From EAST Tennessee. I really enjoy your work all of it.Stay safe out there.

[@privateuser2463]

reverse electroplating would be the most cost effective I think

[@Dgafsranger]

Wouldn't the initial set up cost a pretty penny?

[@johnsheppard1476]

@@Dgafsranger The much better way is to use mercury to just soak the whole batch into it for a while until it strips all the gold plating from these!Than either evaporate/boil all the mercury or dissolve it in nitric acid and that's it!

[@TheFoxygrandpa69]

@@Dgafsranger electroplating is pretty cheap. You don't need anything special to do it

[@rockman531]

Looks like the 'Lord of the Rings' material someone was selling on eBay. They had a 55 gallon drum of them. Good Luck!

[@uwillnevahno6837]

Exactly looks like knockoff LOTR merchandise.

[@redbaronrefining5322]

I remember exactly these on eBay sold by the 55 gallon drum. Nice catch.

[@scottdawson7805]

Bead Purity: Simply, why did you not XRF the bead? Not knowing how many pounds of rings there is nickel and copper have value. My thought is to reverse electro plate removing the gold surface then the nickel and copper. Once the lab is set up electricity does the work.

[@mbmmllc]

Thanks!

[@biffedya]

pretty amazing how thin gold plating can be ...one ounce of gold can cover an area of 950 square feet so if you get enough gold rings to cover 950 square feet you'll be in the money brother...awesome vids Jason

[@Alondro77]

And when they are all melted... One Ring floats on top, untouched... so bright, so beautiful... give to us, precious. It's our birthday! ;]

[@grebulocities8225]

It looks like they took an antimony-hardened lead alloy to make it relatively dense and hard enough to wear without deforming, covered it with a bronze alloy, and then flash-plated it with like a micron of gold. Definitely just a little too much lead to meet regulations, haha!

[@rickpierson2586]

Good video! What we can take from this is that it's not feasible to go after that little amount of AU. I think I would have tested with a magnet and jeweler acid scratch test b4 firing up the furnace.

[@elbowomar2430]

Yes gold oxide makes red glass but that might be lead crystal that I've seen and I've seen Italian army desert service goggles from the 30s with purple red glass that's said to be coloured with gold.

[@mbmmllc]

Thanks!

[@pneumatic00]

You could be boiling the lead (1744 C) for those bubbles. Usually, gold plated stuff yields approximately nothing.

[@mbmmllc]

My furnace only reaches about 1200 C, but good idea!

[@svenp6504]

8:17 The bubbles could be zinc evaporating... not sure what kind of low melting alloy they used but zinc is often a component of that kind of alloy. Saw the XRF... could be Antimony, it boils at 1500 C.

[@homesteadworks3448]

I once read that Gold was used in the ruby glass making process to give it the ruby color!

[@joek511]

This is the first time I saw this video. I remember those rings on e bay. The seller claimed to have several 50 gallon drums full of them. I think 700 lbs. He was trying to sell them for gold recovery. I refine gold so they caught my eye, but my brain said no way. The company that produced them new darn well they were worthless or they would never have let 700 lbs of them just walk off. Think about it. 1% of 700 lbs, 7lbs of gold, not. They were made for the movie Lord of the rings. Note the markings.

[@CanadianTreasureHunter]

Gold went into the red glass as in the early days red glass was rare & those rings are from Lord of the rings Movie, You should XRF the Red Glass Slag & it might have your missing Gold

[@mbmmllc]

Good idea!

[@------country-boy-------]

I was gonna say the exact same thing. My friend does glass blowing and when a gold bead is held in the flame in front of the hot glass the gold fumes off and sticks to the glass. Gold fume gives the glass a red/pink colour. He makes flower implosions and pipes. Silver fume is a smokey clear blue/green/white/yellow.

[@kleptordemagnifico]

The story here is that we caught some hobbits on our mountain claim...

[@snarky_user]

The electroplating may be so thin that you're getting colloidal gold suspending in that borax, rather than settling out.

[@rrfields65]

I think you are correct, he should clean cut one of the rings in half to determine the plating thickness. It is much lower than vermeille , I would just grind up the whole lot and Aqua Regia it ...then sulfuric acid precipitate out the lead.

[@douglaswhite3933]

That’s what I was thinking too. Lots of reds in silicate glasses are from gold ions. The plating could have a tin base and in the crucible that could reduce it and make the gold go into the slag.

[@snarky_user]

@@douglaswhite3933 that's a good thought.

[@geistgefallene1116]

@@rrfields65 I agree with your proposal - hydrometallurgy is much more efficient. he very stupidly rests against one of his own method of stove, everything goes into it, and electronic garbage and jewelry ... very stupid ...

[@MysteryScienceTheater-uq9ht]

I don't remember if you had a video on de-plating using sulfuric acid as the electrolyte, but I think it would have been faster and cheaper to do it that way. The electrolyte is reusable.

[@BIGREDDOG09]

@12:51 "but it's super tiny let me pull it out and..." I died.

[@richardbeee]

The red slag i would be willing to bet that it's Copper oxides. Although gold is known for its red hue on glass. Maybe XRF the slag?

[@ursamines7643]

Copper oxide is green…

[@richardbeee]

@@ursamines7643 Also blue. Brown, even black

[@mbmmllc]

Thanks!

[@johnmansell5097]

This was one of the metals I tested for on an analytical XRF, copper would turn Borax red can’t think of any others.

[@richardbeee]

@@johnmansell5097 Often ran across red slag while assaying high copper content in ores.

[@jasoncunninghambluejmc]

Reverse electroplating is cool too.

[@lucdaigle2394]

I think your rings are coated with an alloy called Nordic Gold, which contains no gold, but does have some tin which could account for the Sn in your XRF analysis.

[@Levent_Ergun]

I find it funny that these replica LOTR rings have enough lead in them to kill whoever wears them long enough just like in the movies.

[@geneplummer6645]

thats a good one , lol

[@torchandhammer]

I wore one for 3 weeks and now I look like Gollum.

[@mbmmllc]

Haha

[@ScienceFoundation]

@ 12:50 "It's super tiny, lemme pull it out" Kek

[@drexplode9309]

Good work, useful information Support from India 🇮🇳

[@mbmmllc]

Thanks!

[@fredrichardson9761]

Great video! @sreetips on his channel pretty much confirmed what you're saying here - he has a few videos on recovering gold chemically (and I think electrically) from gold plated material and the reality (which surprised me) is that the gold plate layer is extremely thin and you end up processing a lot of material to yield a small amount of gold. I also think that however you attempt to do this it ends up requiring a ton of time and materials. It's really counter intuitive because it looks so shiny - but I guess it's true what they say about "all that glitters" and all that ;)

[@mbmmllc]

Yes, the gold plating is suuuupppper thin. not much there. I like Sreetips channel

[@buggsy5]

@@mbmmllc Yep. Look up the definitions of the various gold plated classes here in the US. We are looking at millionths of an inch (e.g. a few microns thickness). The bubbling may well have been lead boiling. Did the temp get about about 1740 deg C? When you did the cupel test, there was no need for the bismuth. All that lead in the rings will gather the oxides and suck them into the cupel. Also, your electric furnace must be quite leaky. Normally during an assay, the door is left open somewhat so oxygen can get in to oxidize the base metals faster and more completely.

[@yannickgilbert668]

it could be a form of "Nordic Gold" which would make sense with tin content. Its composition is 89% copper, 5% aluminium, 5% zinc, and 1% tin.

[@teuth]

50% lead. thank you china, very cool!

[@mbmmllc]

haha, yep. Crap

[@bipolargods509]

Gold plated is generally not worth going after unless you have a lot of it. Gold filled, if you find it and want to extract the gold from the jewelery, it's the way to go. GF is any where from 2% to 4% gold by weight. It's a cheaper option than jumping right in to the high purity 14k 18k jewelry.

[@Vivademort]

Should have done the test with,🎶"Five Golden Riiiings"🎶 🤣

[@dexterdan2574]

Nice video! Much love from Australia

[@gasptis8534]

About those bubless, many speculations are that they are caused by boiling metals but i found few comments that seems more logical to me, that it could be boiling borax (1,575 °C; 2,867 °F; 1,848 K). If your furnance got that hot it might cause it to evaporate. I will go with that theory because the metal on the bottom seems quite still (on the other hand the liquid borax looks very "mad and bubly")

[@Rob337_aka_CancelProof]

Where did you get the little Electric furnace and how hot does it get will it get to 2100 F? If so could you please share a link because it's the perfect size for me?

[@seymourpro6097]

Note also a range of alloys that look like gold, one of which is called Prince Rupert's alloy. Basically a gold looking brass.

[@coyzee1]

Considering the furnace temp is almost 6 times it's melting point, perhaps the bubbles are from the lead vaporizing.

[@buggsy5]

There is a huge difference between the melting and boiling temperatures of lead - as is the case with most metals.

[@boone7777777777]

Rubies are basically compressed aluminum oxide. Maybe the slag is red because the ring had aluminum in it as well. Perhaps the ring had aluminum and trapped air and that's what the bubbles were from. Even tungsten can get air trapped in the metal so

[@rrfields65]

I corundum!

[@dustinmcdermont699]

Those things look and sound like the Sega rings from Sonic the Hedgehog!!!

[@kencarbon2346]

Enjoyed watching your video

[@mbmmllc]

Glad you enjoyed it

[@butziporsche8646]

Jason, I subscribe to both you and Sreetip. Very interesting observing different techniques applied to extracting/refining.

[@jordanbritten8031]

Acid bath might be the way to recover the plating here.

[@applecorc]

@@jordanbritten8031 I was thinking the same.

[@mbmmllc]

Thanks!

[@nomerc3608]

What AU? It was so thin it was just for looks! Rings like these will make you very very sick! Lead poisoning is no joke!

[@nathanswartz2258]

Have you ever refined silver brazing wire? Specifically “easy flo 45” it contains zinc, copper, and cadmium in the alloy

[@mbmmllc]

No, but sounds interesting. Thanks for the tip

[@charlestosi5199]

Is the disposal of the used couples a hazardous waste issue? Thanks for more fascination.

[@rikusauske]

The lead probably vaporized at those temperatures and we're boiling under the borax. That would explain why it turn the borax red

[@colinrountree4325]

Good video 👍informative 👍

[@mbmmllc]

Thanks!

[@bfd1565]

Never assume. I can save you the trouble as someone who actually processes precious metals. Don't waist your time with anything gold plated. You'll need a 1000 of those rings if they are truly gold plated to equal maybe a half a gram. My guess it's a Nordic Gold recipe of elements. Throw them directly into the trash...

[@jackmclane1826]

I guess that is what he did... otherwise the extraction would've been shown here.

[@mbmmllc]

you're absolutely right. So little gold even on real gold plated jewelry

[@jeremyhess7977]

Just a theory - The bubbles in the molten metal are probably caused by the burning off of all of the Chinesium.

[@5in1killa]

The rings being different weights is probably because jewelry rings are different sizes for different people, That stack on the scale looked like different sizes to me.

[@hiddentruth1982]

they are probably made using a press. that means a little container shoots out and back to fill the die and it's pressed in to shape. it's not the most accurate way of doing it weight wise but it is fast.

[@mbmmllc]

Good idea

[@StreetMachine18]

i would make about 400 ml of aqua-riga. (HCL and nitric) use it as a rinse and dip each ring in till the plating is gone the use some sodium metabisulphate to cement out the gold. You would have to use sulfuric acid to cement out the lead and then filter it before hand but if you follow streetips he explains it better

[@filonin2]

*sreetips

[@StreetMachine18]

@@filonin2 you're right! thanks! I know I'm not the only one who watches both of these channels!

[@mbmmllc]

Thanks for the tip

[@jeffersonstategold8349]

That red was caused by my brain trying to wrap around how well you understand the different chemical processes and how to achieve the end result you are after.

[@Wowonder1]

possibly mercury bubbles means gas, use a respirator to be safe, we have a natural mercury 'spring' nearby quartz and close to the spring appears pink and/or red foreign mined gold unregulated may have been processed with mercury

[@filonin2]

8:00 The bubbles could be boiling borax as it's boiling temp is 2867 F and something may have lowered it's boiling point in the melt a bit if it isn't that hot.

[@mbmmllc]

Thanks for the tip

[@briangoldner4095]

Zinc boils at 1665F so that was going to be my guess but it didn’t show up in your xrf zap.

[@mbmmllc]

could be

[@MakingUsThink]

Jason seems there might be more gold on a gold leaf ice cream desert than those rings?

[@michaeldenison7339]

Red enamel is made from gold. Making it the most expensive enamel. Reds, pinks, some oranges have gold in them.

[@mbmmllc]

Thanks!

[@meettheworld6241]

Could the bubbles forming under the borax have been from a metal getting so hot in the mixture that it was vaporizing instead of oxidizing?

[@user-lb8do4ew6k]

Thats what I assumed, arsenic boils at 690c/1130f.

[@meettheworld6241]

@@user-lb8do4ew6k Oooooo... arsenic VAPOR... that just SOUNDS like some dangerous stuff! Lol

[@mbmmllc]

Thanks for the idea

[@dovidmh9825]

I enjoyed it immensley! Thank you! I hope you get very wealthy and enjoythy🔥

[@jamesmurray8558]

Which part of Skagit county are you at?I was stationed in Sedro Woolley. North Cascades national park.Would like to hear from you.

[@mbmmllc]

MBMM is located in Whatcom County. We were neighbors :)

[@KowboyUSA]

Even if Au is as much as 7% of the plated surface, that's still an infinitesimally small amount of elemental gold contained in each ring.

[@mbmmllc]

agreed

[@liamdtraxxas2011]

Sreetips on you tube is the man whn it comes to using acid, he would of been able to refine the gold, the way your doin it is another way to do it. 👌👌👍

[@filonin2]

*sreetips

[@liamdtraxxas2011]

@@filonin2 my bad I caught the t button

[@mbmmllc]

Thanks!

[@Alrik.]

Very interesting experiment! :D

[@mbmmllc]

Thanks!

[@nickford5549]

Stripping cell for sure with plated stuff

[@scrapman502]

If these rings have ANY gold in them at all, the best way to extract the gold in them cheaply is a sulfuric acid stripping cell. All you need is a battery charger, a pyrex dish, A Lead Bar and some Sulfuric acid Drain cleaner. Since the rings have a large surface area, they should be easy to de-plate quickly. (2-3 seconds each.)

[@mbmmllc]

Thanks for the tip. I'm going to try that next!

[@scrapman502]

@@mbmmllc Did you ever try it? It's been 10 months!

[@jonathansonnier3078]

Try using 5 parts HCL to one part Nitric Acid and see if you can get the gold in solution. I’m sure you have done it before but it works really well for gold plated and gold filled items and if that is silver in there the the silver will separate from the gold and you simply filter it out then drop the gold out of solution and you end up with a gold powder when it’s dried that u can melt If there is 200 rings there you should recover 6 grams .03 x 200= 6 right ? Seems like it’s to much lol

[@wilsonrawlin8547]

.03% PERCENT. Equals .06 grams of gold.

[@buggsy5]

It isn't that simple. The HCl reacts with the surface of the silver and any tin present - passivating them and preventing them from being dissolved. That is why nitric acid boils are used until silver is no longer detected in the boil liquid.

[@reina4969]

It really seems like a quick chemical process to flash remove the surface gold would be best.

[@scrappydoo7887]

That's not really possible unfortunately, in my experience, you can only remove gold like that from glass or reverse electroplating

[@reina4969]

@@scrappydoo7887 Well my idea to do it quickly, almost as if it was a mechanical process. There is so little gold, and it is all on the surface. It might only take a few seconds to do a batch. You could put a few rings on a plastic hook and dip and swirl in acid for a few seconds looking for a color change before reloading with more rings. The after you are done with a 1000, process the acid and see if the gold drops out of solution.

[@torchandhammer]

@@reina4969 What kind of acid?

[@reina4969]

@@torchandhammer My guess would be an Aqua Regia solution. Hit it hard and fast.

[@scrappydoo7887]

@@reina4969 I don't think that will work. You will end up with very badly contaminated gold and the two things you don't want in any solution. That's lead and tin

[@jamisontaylor878]

Excellent video thank you 😊

[@mbmmllc]

Thanks

[@jakev1972]

You should call your furnace the fires of mount doom

[@MrMackievelli]

lead(II,IV) Oxide is red. It used to be used in bricks and paint.

[@mbmmllc]

Cool, thanks

[@coreygold1923]

Best way I think would be sulfuric cell but man theres definitely not much on those eh. Thanks from Ontario Canada. Also was wondering if you seen my message about the ic chips. I have about 150 kilo of very high grade and prob 500 pounds of low grade.

[@mbmmllc]

Going to try sulfuric next. I'm going to pass on the chips, but you can probably find a buyer easily for them

[@coreygold1923]

@@mbmmllc ok thanks anyways. Yeah with the gold corned bga chips yielding anywhere from 5 to 10 grams per kilo of caps I really wanna do the process because places like board sort pay well for lots of items but not the high yeild stuff. I figure theres about 250 to 500 gram of gold total in all my chips. Maybe in the near future I will buy a table. Thanks and keep up the great vids

[@xdebugxDotNet]

My precious!

[@lucdaigle2394]

That bead is so small, there's not enough gold there to have electroplated three rings, must be a very cheap alloy. The quickest and cheapest method to strip and recover any gold coating would be an Aqua Regia bath. Simple and quick, but safety first when using any of the methods of gold recovery.

[@ProfaneGod]

Gold plates best to silver and silver best plates to copper and i am guessing copper best plates to lead so i guess the shine of the rings is probably due to the amount of copper added to karat gold alloys to give it that typical gold ring colour we all know.

[@mbmmllc]

Thanks!

[@hateonskillz318]

Thanks for answering my email and giving some advice its not as cut and dry with cupel and I'm sure I'll get it over time to see the flash you showed in a previous video of when it goes from oxides to gold ill see the flash day lol

[@mbmmllc]

Thanks and good luck!

[@Mrbfgray]

Who doesn't love playing constructively w FIRE? 😀

[@imrebalogh2786]

I got this red slag color couple of times when I melted silver with 1% copper.

[@DBFRay]

Smiggle would be in heaven

[@kanedytham4597]

what is your cupel made off

[@thejll]

Put the borax under the xrf - perhaps gold went into it and gave that colour?

[@mbmmllc]

Ill check

[@joeyhale7845]

Do you replace the cupel ever time since it absorbs all the other metals, if silver or other precious metals are present do they stay or are they absorb? Hopefully that doesn't sound too stupid just starting too learn

[@mbmmllc]

Yes, need to get a new cupel each test. The gold and silver wont absorb

[@sailingsolar]

Jason can you say based on the cost of electricity and the Cupel how the button needs to weigh to break even?

[@mbmmllc]

Not including time, the cupel and electricity probably cost about $3

[@nobodyknowsforsure]

One of the dislikes on this video was from Sonic.

[@marklestergamayon7361]

Are those same ring finger sizes ? Why the weight is different from each other ?

[@surlyboomergaming2517]

So if the cupel absorbs all of these metals, is it possible to process the cupel somehow to retrieve the metals, and is it worth it?

[@guygordon2780]

Not worth it. Not even close.

[@xenaguy01]

He (Jason MMBLLC) made a video on recovering the lead a couple of years ago.

[@mbmmllc]

Yep, check out my other vids, but I agree with Guy, its totally not worth it

[@roywhipple4923]

I think it's called Stromium it's supposed to have a red color when it oxidizes

[@anubis20049999]

I think the best thing you could have done was keep fire on the crucible and the mold as your pouring out the alloy. I think the borax would be less of a problem

[@DavidJohnson2024-uw1ik]

Wish you'd have done all of them!

[@ProfessorDantheScienceMan]

Lord of the rings would have been much shorter if you had been there

[@rickdees251]

1) Try an acid test on the gold for purity. 2) You should do the math and know how much gold by weight the button needs to be and what purity it needs to be to break even. 3) In this effort that button, even at 24k, didn't pay for cost of the electricity or the Cupel.

[@mbmmllc]

Thanks!

[@carolinamontalbo8043]

Wow magaling gumawa god bless poh CIR

[@au_rockn6797]

Awesome content

[@trentsmith8160]

I can NEVER get this 14 min. of my life back!! 😭

[@AshChildOfGod]

Same

[@ThepowerfulArbiter]

nice to see where all those facebook ad lord of the rings went.

[@ScienceFoundation]

"Too much lead" would mean that there's an acceptable amount of lead.

[@frantiseklaluch6605]

Ahoj Jason, like and start watching... so interesting...

[@mbmmllc]

Thanks!

[@TheMnkkhan]

What is the formula for flux?And what is the smelting time of flux.thanks for information

[@xxxm981]

That premium chinesium, lol

[@mbmmllc]

yep

[@clearwax]

So with such a low amount of gold, would it be more cost efficient to remove the gold? With heat or acids (like electronics)? …or is it not even worth it with that little gold?

[@danielmcgrath7519]

Sell them as flash fishing sinkers 👍

[@mbmmllc]

Thats a great idea!

[@Rob337_aka_CancelProof]

You can use sulfuric acid to get rid of the lead in solution if I'm not mistaken