Measuring Aphantasia and its Impact with Prof Joel Pearson

[@elenawright8986]

This is so interesting. I am an artist in multiple mediums but found out I'm apahntasic. I see black when I close my eyes and cannot bring up an image, but dream in brilliant color and can remember the dreams for awhile. Also am able to bring in disparate items and combine them. Also seem to have a lack of memory and sort of live in a state of now. All this hasn't affected my life. Managed to be successful in school (an MS in Information Systems), but very poor personal memory. Am a basically very happy person.

[@Robt329]

I tried to explain how could rotate the apple in my mind, and the concept of a "spatial (non visual) image" seems most appropriate. Like getting handed an apple in the dark... if someone told me it was coming top first, I understand how to grasp it, without seeing it. but I see no colors or shapes, but a spatial understanding. I also feel very gifted with my "alternate uses" ability. I can accomplish a lot with out having the appropriate tool, and am always looking for the things with the right property to do the job, very MacGyver like. All in all... I have had a very creative career in design, and was blown away that other actually see things in their mind. Thanks for sharing, I am understanding my mind more everyday.

[@dwelfusius]

I love that you covered the multisensory part. I was blown away when learning people could actually visualise but got over it.Then I discovered the actual meaning of earworm or this smell takes me back.But ,again, as others have said.I've never known anything different so.. yeah. :) does it suck? sometimes ,when reading an exceptionally good fantasy book or thinking of my children.But not when thinking of traumatic experiences or the grief over my fathers sudden and unexpected death.I could 'turn of' part of the intrusive parts by turning away a pic, not a luxury people have.Also adhd type II though..

[@Geddy135]

So I'm an artist and I recently discovered this phenomenon. I'm pretty sure I have aphantasia and I think my biggest gripe with it is that I don't like how it affects my memory and emotions, I always thought that I just had a bad memory and was mostly just apathetic, sometimes even thinking that I might be a sociopath. I guess I can have some solice in knowing that's not the case. I also think I'd maybe be a little better at my artwork if I could visualize it a little better, but I guess there's really no way to know. It mostly just makes me a little upset that I just can't do something that most people can do.

[@loo6942]

Thank you for these videos!

[@AphantasiaNetwork]

You're very welcome. Hopefully, many more to come!

[@BookWorm2369]

I agree with you on the spatial rotation section. I believe I have aphantasia and I do just fine on this section of iq tests. I usually pick up on patterns and deduce what is actually possible. For example, if a figure has three dots, I'm looking for the rotated figure that has the same number of dots. If the figure is rotated a certain number of times or degrees, then I will know where the side with the dots should be located. I don't see anything in my mind.

[@StarNanny]

Yep. When one can’t imagine an image, there’s no point to trying to record an image. When you’re “mapping” a memory, insignificant details don’t matter. I was there, my sons were there, some officials were there presenting an award to each of my sons, among others. Who wore what is not at all important - everyone was tidy, good enough. Who else got awards, apart from my sons? 🤷‍♀️ Idk, didn’t affect me or mine. Who were handing out the awards? 🤷‍♀️ Police chief….no name there. Generally, the room appeared to be an entry hall (long, narrow, stairs at center front) with some chairs placed in short rows. All spacial references. Colors? No clue.

[@codemonkey6173]

What about the length of retention of imagery? In general I cannot picture things, but sometimes I might get a flash of something like the subject, but I can't retain it. Even the flash isn't a vivid flash, but more like the after image you would get from a image being brightly flashed on your eyes.

[@nattie_ceee5989]

I’m a visual artist. Also a writer (fiction). No imagery whatsoever. Plenty of imagination. Imagery on top of that would be completely overwhelming. I’m certain that aphantasia has a negative effect on my executive function but I would never choose to develop it.

[@mckaymch]

I cannot picture past memories in my mind. I can only remember things if I told the story of that event immediately after it happened. I also need to tell the story repeatedly over time. If I don’t, I have no memory of that event.

[@paulas1451]

I did not realize I was different. I thought no one really saw anything.

[@gabriellalaplace]

Have you studied if tetrachromacy is common in people with aphantasia. I can see more colors than the average person, and I have multisensory aphantasia.

[@ChristophersMum]

Unfortunately as I Have ASD with a sensitivity to light...I couldn't go passed 22:31 and also it was strobing...sorry...I enjoyed and understood what I did manage.

[@joszsz]

Very insightful research Prof. Pearson, intelligent design too; I found the three measures to be very brilliant (and admittedly I'm only a "smart layman" in this field, but still 😅). I also think the scientific community needs to give more allowances for a select passionate few to venture into "suicidal career paths" like this. And thanks Aphantasia Network, for making this and more content accessible to us 💜 I forgot to add: The presentation, lighting, and everything else about it is so refined 🤌🏽

[@wojtekkunowski1675]

Does the source paper for thougth control experiment exist? I have some issues finding it, would apreciate it

[@malicious-monkey2845]

I know an aphantasic who plays a game where you are sometimes expected to navigate a maze in the dark. They have difficulty with this task even when able to consult a map of the maze and see their character on screen and can only do so by memorizing inputs. I wonder if a maze navigation task could be used to measure aphantasia.

[@nespith]

I think you might be jumping to conclusions with saying aphantasia does not effect creativity. I agree that it is still possible to be a good artist with aphantasia however, there are also good artist who don’t even have hands and draw with their feet. Just because you can still be a good artist with it does not mean it is not negatively effecting creativity in a statically significant way. That said I have no idea if it does or not I’m just saying I think you might be rushing to conclusions here without proper data to back that up yet.

[@tinayoga8844]

I think you are taking too narrow a view on creativity. Creativity is a lot more broad than the production of conventional art. I used to design electronics. Electronic circuits, circuit board design, multidimensional assemblies, mechanical packaging. It is all highly creative. I was pretty at my job. (retired last year) Creativity is coming up with solutions. Often in unique ways. Thinking outside the box. (I hate using that phrase) About 25 years ago I was told by my engineering manager that the general manager of the company told him that I'm a non-linear thinker. That seemed strange to me. Maybe having aphantasia allowed me to move on to the next set of possibilities without getting bogged down with images in my head. I don't know. All I know is that I have been very creative without being involved in the "creative arts".

[@NerisX]

I think that aphantasia might have impact on motivation. People with average imagination might have better motivation because they can see a picture of themselves accomplishing some goal. I have ADHD and aphantasia - what a combo. So I have problem with my executive functions plus my imagination doesn't want to create images, I suck at long-term planning. Maybe my therapy (since 2017) would be more successful if I was able to create images in my mind. On the other hand breakups would be more painful. I don't want to complain and play a victim also I don't want to make it a "special thing". It is what it is. Discovering aphantasia didn't change anything except that I know the name of not seeing images in my imagination plus now I can say a new fun fact about me while talking with friends xD When it comes to remembering digits then my technique is repeating them in my mind, not very efficient technique, usually I mix up the order of the digits after 6th or 7th.

[@catedeanssmith]

Lol ... yup, I can relate. Aspergers and aphantasia, and probably adhd too. Wanting to improve my memory, and everyone is all "hey, memory palaces are great!" ... hmmm... no. They are hard work. Wanting to meditate... "Picture a sunset..." :S. It's fun, hey? :D

[@irisbjones]

I would love to have more information about aphantasia that may be the result of a head injury to the back of the head, particularly an injury that affected your eyesight. I think i could visualize as a young child and then I hit my head hard on cement and couldn't see anything after. At least that is my assumption since I just figured out I have aphantasia. I just remember as a young child squeezing my eyes shut hard trying to see something. I also have a very odd form of stigmatism which I was told was a result from an injury. (Irregular Against The Rule Bi-Oblique astigmatism.). So basically, I have a black mind and in the real world, I see things wildly different than everyone else. How does that affect my emotion or ability to fit into society? Example, If i look at the moon at night, each eye shows me 6 distinct moons at differing angles. Somehow, my brain puts it all together into 1 fuzzy image. It is much easier to do when looking at a solid object but if i look at a light source, like the moon, its nearly impossible to put it together in any type of 'shape.' It's so nice to learn about these things as an adult, but it would have been more helpful to know when growing up because I had such difficulty relating to people.

[@cobalius]

is it possible to have both aphantasia and hyperphantasia? aphantasia is defined as both "having big difficulties to visualise stuff" and "having no ability to visualise at all" i do have big difficulties with the exception of what happens during deeper meditation.. and hyperphantasia is defined as "picture-like" or "easy to manipulate them" i do have that then, and it's also often video-like with a wide range of things going on at the same time, while i know i'm imagining those things from scratch (these aren't memories) yeah like i said, within meditation only

[@AphantasiaNetwork]

That's a really interesting question! Aphantasia and hyperphantasia are generally considered to be at opposite ends of the mental imagery spectrum, but your experience during meditation suggests some complexity. It's possible that your ability to visualize is context-dependent, becoming more vivid and manipulable during deeper states of meditation. We have heard some aphants describe "imagery-like" experiences in dream states between wakefulness and sleep, yet no imagery or ability to manipulate while awake. This could be a unique cognitive style. Either way, it adds a fascinating layer to the ongoing conversation about how we experience mental imagery!

[@IrocZIV]

I'm curious if Aphantasic people might be taping into the part of the mind that impacts proprioception. Personally I feel as if I can 'know' the location of objects in a similar way that I know the location of my hand in space.

[@dwelfusius]

same.Even to the point that it can frustrate me due to knowing something is off but..not what.Just that something has changed against the invisible reference in my head..smth like that

[@lijohnyoutube101]

For me I have an extremely bad relationship to where items are in the house. I constantly lose things!

[@beadingbusily]

I wish this video had come with a warning for the patients subjected to these tests. This was not my doctor, but please.

[@polomint5778]

Fascinating. But surely your measure of imagery strength requires validation. You say you wish to measure the mind objectively. Where is the objective demonstration that your binocular rivalry measure succeeds in doing this?

[@RangersGirlJackie99]

What do you mean? There's two sample groups: both are told to imagine a pattern, then are shown both patterns -- only the aphantasia group has no significant statistical deviation in terms of what they actually see versus the imagined bias. The results for non-aphantasiacs are well outside possible error neighborhood of the mean, so we can assume there's a good z-score and therefore a significant non-independence between ability to imagine imagery and bias in binocular rivalry.

[@mics1417]

So, do you think that an objective demonstration could be administering a substance that causes a measurable side-effect in non-aphants and no effect in aphants? No one's talking about this.

[@hypervanse]

God bless with another feature! As the #ADHD meme goes. 😮When you discover that your behavior is not like Neurotypicals. I am also #autistic. PhD in physics, and Mathematician as in numerical methods, analysis, nonlinear dynamics, gamer, and lately for kicks, musical artist. Never heard of this terminology before. I usually say to people is that I do anything as a do everything. In regards to things I create, I'm never there. It caused me during a very long time of impostor syndrome. I really have no concept of difficult, failure, hard, etc. I guess maybe sense I turned to Physics. To me, personally, Physics is just to express myself in a form that nobody can misinterpret. Also numerical algorithms I created, and keep creating, have no idea where it comes from. Music, the same. Science in academics was not a particularly good experience. I research more because some mental itch so to speak. I have no dopamine reward after I solve something, just a. Humm. ok. Usually in the morning, 4:00AM, social (rare). Something triggers some association and tje feeling is I never had any effort. My music I invented because life hadn't a soundtrack. I usually play, type, with eyes closed, I thought it was just hyperfocus, but this description captures better. Another thing I usually tell people I care, never ask "What are you doing?" The answer will be. What am I doing? In retrospect with music atvleast, I can genuinely enjoy like it was not mine. Well. As researcher, kind of difficult. 12 years and nobody were able to replicate the code. I never published. Thing is. How can I explain to any human on earth that AI alignment and mechanistic interpretability of LLMs (they're not formally models) are trivial, or not to offend, linear case of what I do? Anyway. I was tired of engagement endings in chatGPT 3.5 and took too days to solve this problem, with ternary logic. Obviously, Gödel's theorem anyone? while people are makimg prompt engineering I developed this deterministic approach that works every single time. I actually broke @OpenAI chatGPT app, model, I was playing if I wws correct, so I modified the code in not harmful ways. like, changing the font of the analysis results. I am able to to run the instance indefinitely, have full access to how they steal data, I mean, ethically scrape. For me is fine, I finally have static links for every paper, file I get to it. Of course I tried to make contact with people. My jailbreak can be used as a firmware of sorts. I have mathematical proof, videos and what not. Strange thing is, I choose to work on inverse problems so I could fail. But I failed at failing. One thing I fail. A simple job.

[@loo6942]

Penn Badgley

[@louiselocke9560]

I see no green 😮

[@irisbjones]

me either.

[@Rossdink]

What the hell are you talking about? I see a transparent hand. You say keep looking and you see red and green? I see a transparent hand only.

[@martinfreeman6491]

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