Medicine, Surgery and Pathology (5th Skills Analysis!)

[@GitGudFox]

GRABBIN' PILLS!

[@alfredovazquez664]

Love that Left 4 Dead voicelone inclusion

[@masonmccorkle5783]

The intro threw me back to the good ole Left for Dead days. Memories. Pills here! and neverending Ellis stories.

[@leunamreyo3663]

We ain't got time for this Ellis

[@CroweSoT]

never take Louis’ pills 😳😳

[@TheCrimsonCr0ss]

how bout the fact that francis hates everything XD

[@Normalhades]

Pills here!!

[@ghosted808]

One time, my buddy ellis..

[@wardstyle9184]

Never realized how not needed medicine was in standard zone. Still love pathology. Thanks Fox!

[@dionl4292]

Medicine is very useful in vanilla mode if you wish to take your upgraded survivors to higher difficulties. Think of it as a training ground.

[@GitGudFox]

There's a lot of skills that we assume are good because they'd be really good in real life. Medicine gains more value in Nightmare, but even there, the main thing you gain is the level 3 infirmary which means med kits and strong painkillers, and you might be able to play without those.

[@neshiah4747]

Seriously useful stuff dude. You’re a SoD2 encyclopaedia 🙂🇬🇧

[@GitGudFox]

That was actually kind of the idea especially since the SoD2 wiki isn't well developed.

[@N7Tigger]

Two things to take into account. First, +50 Health and Injury Resistance from Surgery is a game changer on Nightmare. Second, (and this applies to other skills, as well) three out of my seven survivors in my main group get a +15 Morale bonus from a level 3 Infirmary.

[@GitGudFox]

This review is only taking the Standard Zone into perspective.

[@kyuubiv.8046]

Medicine is one of my favorites in the game. When I create a new Community, I always make sure someone knows Medicine. And my Supply Locker is filled with every type of medication, First Aid Kit, Bandages, Blood Plague Cure. All around 99 or more. Lmao XD

[@GitGudFox]

I think Pathology is pretty good for setting up an influence farm.

[@dorianjumper8669]

I super appreciate this video. I also came to the same conclusions as you did after some of my own play and research. So it's cool to see you have the same reasoning. Plus with how seamless you make this knowledge to your viewers is a great help to those just starting or have been playing but remain unaware. Also 13 minutes to explain feel like a great amount of time to have a video like this, it doesnt feel rushed. But instead well paced. Thanks again for the video

[@GitGudFox]

These types of videos are more timeless than the gameplay vids since year from now, it could still provide value to a new player.

[@yukikodavila4907]

Great information, great video! I always make sure one of my first 3 players is skilled in medicine with Pathology as the end goal.

[@GitGudFox]

What's funny is 5th skills can cause a cascade that make other skills more valuable. If I take Pathology, it suddenly makes Herbalism stronger since you can get a passive bonus of medicine to keep up with the acquisition of plague samples.

[@trueironleg6196]

Also having Pathology reduces how much blood plague samples you need to make the cure and bulk plague cure

[@GitGudFox]

Possibly the best way to make influence.

[@happyscrub]

One thing to keep in mind about medicine not being so good is that you can get knowledge of medicine from the doctors enclave. That was probably in a patch after this video.

[@GitGudFox]

You can assuming that you get them to generate.

[@pattyrice8559]

Surgery +20 Health (Community) and Pathology +50 Infection Resistance (Community) *UPDATE 32

[@GitGudFox]

These skills were already pretty good even before the buff though they're probably overkill until Nightmare Zone.

[@dionl4292]

Subbed a few days ago and while I know about the topics discussed it's very useful for those that may need further insight. Good content, keep it up and I hope you'll stay with it for a good while yet

[@GitGudFox]

I probably won't stop until the majority of important issues are covered. I may maintain a SoD2 gameplay playlist though.

[@Svengar]

As always a very informative video that answers every possible question on the subject. Thank you very much for all your hard work on these skills videos :-)

[@GitGudFox]

People wanted longer videos according to the Gardening episode, so they got it. This is definitely longer than Gardening.

[@ImBadWithNamesSadly]

This Sod2 guide it's the best I have ever seen

[@MikeD56034]

i currently am on a nightmare play through, i used to always bring a maxed doctor with me to any new start, but given the tougher difficulty I opted for Gardening, Construction and electronics. i should have swapped my electronics specialty for my maxed Doctor. as my people very quickly had traumas that i couldnt heal. honestly though it made me a more cautious player. i did end up finding a Casting Mod kit on day 4 Approx 5 hours of playing that once installed into my infirmary allowed very slow, yet passive trauma recovery. and my group does just fine with that alone. i have no plans to have a doctor in my crew at this time.

[@GitGudFox]

The best thing about having medicine skill is that you can setup an influence farm by using a pill press to create strong pain killers that you can sell for 100 influence a base stack of 3 for just 1 medicine supply and 2 jugs of ethanol.

[@MikeD56034]

@@GitGudFox now that is something i missed. Still learning about this game. Ill have to looknfor a pill press. I have yet to come accross one in my current game. Aand im now planning onnhaving a doc. One of my extra electricians (AI Controlled) decided to try and defib and juggernaught to see if he could reverse its condition...what happened next is exactly what Happened to Deadpool when he met Juggernaught. XD.

[@kitkami]

When you get further in nightmare i would love you to make a video telling us what you think all the skills are worth in it.

[@GitGudFox]

I plan to do so, but it will take time since I will need a very powerful community in NZ to be able to test these. I'll also need hours of gameplay in NZ in order to have the experience to speak on them.

[@legacydroid4696]

2023 still useful(:

[@GitGudFox]

Indeed, though it is a little disappointing as it indicates the game hasn't changed very much... so it is a double edged sword.

[@h27]

Even in nightmare mode the medicine skill is not useful. The game would've been much more fun if crafting plague samples and passive healing requires a community member with a medicine skill. That way the medicine skill would be of more value

[@GitGudFox]

I don't think that'd be unfair, either, since I'm pretty sure you get someone with medicine from doing the tutorial, and you don't start with a blood plagued community member when you skip the tutorial.

[@katurnasa]

Question: Does Surgery/Pathology alter expense of resources or does that involve mods to facilities? If it does, are there mods that compound such effects to modify the resource usage (Meds/Samples) further?

[@GitGudFox]

5th skills and mods both can give you discounts or production boosts. It's mainly Pharmacology and the Pill Press that influence the medical items.

[@presleybaldwin3756]

Awesome, thanks for your help. It helps quite a bit.

[@GitGudFox]

Hey, I'm glad it was useful.

[@v0l7_cr4nky5]

thats vid be really helpful , thank you for do that

[@dionl4292]

Also, any news on the Drucker Co. map? I'm itching for that.

[@GitGudFox]

Drucker County? Are you talking about the Return to Trumbull County DLC?

[@dionl4292]

@@GitGudFox Yes, my apologies I've gotten it confused with something else but that would be the place.

[@Zuwali]

I thought I read somewhere that one of the medicine skills earns +meds a day passively just like Lichenology. Is this true? Does any of the med skills produce +meds passively?

[@indiecraze5227]

Dude you deserve so many more subs

[@GitGudFox]

Maybe, but there's only so many people interested in SoD2 content.

[@CongrexesPrime]

this is really good info well done FOX !

[@GitGudFox]

Thanks, they can take a while to compile and stitch together into a video.

[@Zadd4AIG]

Very helpful analysis of the Medicine skill - I've been wondering whether it's worth it, now I know I can get by just fine without it!

[@GitGudFox]

On Lethal Zone, they can be more useful depending on how much damage you can withstand, but starting your Lethal Zone with someone who knows Hygiene may be all you need. Hygiene + Gym gives you a solid amount of health and infection resistance.

[@wilmer007]

Pathology is pretty much required in any difficulty and definitely should be a starting 3 character due to more plague samples, but it's especially required in Nightmare mode as your characters will be needing those plague cures more often and you need the plague samples to sell for influence in bulk. not to mention the boosted infection recovery, first aid kit and infirmary level 3 is always nice when your constantly taking tons of damage in nightmare mode.

[@GitGudFox]

Required? That's too strong of a word. I have done many playthroughs without having even medicine as a basic skill, and they were done very easily.

[@judahbonds5951]

I dont know , from what I can tell from my nightmare completions lvl1 workshop and a lvl 2 infirmary is all thats needed and thats iffy. I usually go lvl 2 workshop for the +1 material, and lvl 2 infirmary. But under no circumstances do either reach lvl 3 unless I want to splurge. For some reason Im becoming a fanboy of the staging area. As for required, the only skills I can see even remotely required (nightmare) is gardening/agri and computers. It even got to the point where I build a latrine for morale for the hell of it. because many facilities are not REALLY necessary.

[@LetsBarkAndRoll]

nightmare mode is the proper way to play the game tbh

[@lizmac21]

did you make a video for nightmare zone? on this medicine surgery vs pathology

[@jackblu475]

Do you have a 5th skills analysis video? You do a good job of breaking down each type of skill, though I think it would be beneficial to compare all of them.

[@GitGudFox]

I didn't get around to finishing them all. When I got into gameplay videos, I got derailed.

[@jackblu475]

@@GitGudFox Ah, totally understandable! Thanks for letting me know. Semi-random question... What are your new favorite zombie games while you wait for SoD3 to come out?

[@GitGudFox]

7 Days to Die is fun. I enjoyed The Last Stand Aftermath, and I am currently playing Dying Light 2, but I have not played enough to have an opinion. I have playthroughs of them too! 7 Days to Die: kzbin.info/www/bejne/nZnFlqZ5jNKSaMU The Last Stand Aftermath: kzbin.info/www/bejne/hpmlkp2urMZ8j6M Dying Light 2 is on my Twitch channel: www.twitch.tv/gitgudfox

[@robinvegas4367]

Curious question; do the fifth skill bonuses apply to the community or is it only the survivor that posseses the bonus?

[@GitGudFox]

It varies. Some of them only apply to the community such as granting +1 resources or a bonus to parts when scrapping weaponry. Others only apply to the character such as plague resistance.

[@russelledwards2405]

With nightmare mode it is even more pronounced how much more useful pathology is than surgery.

[@GitGudFox]

Yeah, some of the skills aren't balanced especially well. It's okay for there to be weaker and stronger skills since it's impossible for everything to be equally valuable, but some of them are very lopsided.

[@russelledwards2405]

@@GitGudFox thank you for making these vids.

[@theouterheavengamingnetwork]

Like your style Fox great comms nice vid

[@jacktaw2]

Very helpful video!! Thank you!!

[@itzragequeen]

Well I'm learning one of these two to my BP survivor I think surgery is better with a BP surit

[@olivianoegonzalez3226]

Thanks for the advice Broski's Skip 12: 15 just choose pathology.

[@GitGudFox]

On the highest difficulty? They're both really good. I'd recommend both Surgery and Pathology on Lethal Zone.

[@suiton20]

I only had someone with med skills to craft first aid kits and create meds

[@GitGudFox]

It is probably the main use of the medicine skill.

[@treemann6465]

I hate asking on an old video but not many have been as reliable as you. My question is in the beginning you said that this review is for standard, not nightmare. I don't have enough experience to see the difference? Is there something I'm missing?

[@GitGudFox]

It was a disclaimer in the event any prices are different etc. I don't think there are any differences though. The infirmary consumes 2 meds Standard and Lethal Zone. Primary care uses 3 meds Standard Zone and Lethal Zone etc. Surgery+Pathology at the same time is very powerful on Lethal Zone though.

[@treemann6465]

@@GitGudFox it was in my notes to use both of them for a lethal zone run. My job has me in a very remote place away from home and my wife, so a friend of mine and myself have taken up the challenge of this lethal zone when there is down time. Your videos have been an immeasurable amount of help.

[@harackmw]

For standard zone, it seems like you don't even need someone trained in medicine, or anything beyond level 1 infirmary....

[@GitGudFox]

You just need the level 2 infirmary to cure injuries passively. You need the level 3 infirmary to make strong pain killers which are actually a good way to make influence because they sell for a lot.

[@EasterEgg-dn9kd]

You need if you want to craft the blood plague cure

[@happyscrub]

Pathology also boost primary care. You just didn't see it because you didn't have a pathology character at the time

[@GitGudFox]

It gives a +50% infection boost visible at certain times in the video such as 7:21.

[@brashsmurf1978]

Infirmary level 3 can be built if you have the doctors enclave allied. It also allows you to craft first aid kits. I find the medicine skill completely useless.

[@kavonnthomas2491]

Yeah when I first started playing nightmare zone I would stress about not having a medic. In nightmare zone though I would say that having one can help get you out of shitty situations (like getting jumped by 3 ferals and having a bloater sneak up and suicide while you're getting your ass chewed) but if you're careful you'll be ok. I've been so close to death once with no ammo and no molotovs standing on top of a shipping container with a pack of ferals circling below. Calling in medical advice saved my ass.

[@ericbaldemor8307]

Random but after finishing my warlord legacy once i noticed that the character this guy is using literally doesnt show up on the survivor reroll anymore ...

[@legendaryone696]

Do you have to be on the character when making the items for the exp to go to them? Do you have to physically be at the station? I tend to do things from the base screen.

[@GitGudFox]

No, if you make an item, and it gives EXP, it'll automatically go to whoever should earn it.

[@BelovedPariah]

I’m disappointed that the medicine skill isn’t more required for anything, you would think it being the end of the world having a doctor on hand would be more important ya know?

[@curtisgarwood4150]

Michael Burnett they could’ve made the game so the medicine skill was required for the infirmary which would make the game that bit harder and interesting

[@GitGudFox]

Well that's why everyone takes it. It's logical to assume you'd want medicine skill in your community which is why these videos are interesting since even I assumed medicine was good until I had to make a video on it.

[@midnightd607]

Heyooo, I have a character whose hero bonus is hygiene standards, it has the same description as the pathology "+100 infection resistance". Does this mean that if I give them the pathology skill, that they'll become 100% resistant to blood plague infection? I don't know if the two +100's will stack or not, and if they'll stack as 50% + 50%, or only do 50% of the remaining 50%, giving 75% total infection resistance. I am noob player... so any help will be greatly appreciated.

[@GitGudFox]

I think it would stack multiplicatively meaning the 2 bonuses would be better than individual bonuses, but it wouldn't be basically 200% resistance. I'm guessing this due to how fuel efficiency works. If you have 3 fuel efficiency bonuses, I know they don't stack additively, but they do stack meaning the 3 fuel efficiency bonuses make a difference more than just 1 bonus which means they very likely stack multiplicatively.

[@midnightd607]

@@GitGudFox Awesome Pawsome, thank you for the info! Will give him pathology down the line when I can.

[@rathnayos205]

Is there one for mechanic of these videos? tried looking in your profile cant find these videos in general so using search bar.

[@GitGudFox]

I didn't finish all of them.

[@joedavis6377]

Lol. Great info. You must of went thru a boatload of rucksacks....

[@GitGudFox]

One of the perks of being a trader leader is lazy ruck refills.

[@nerodelacroix9281]

Wow gundam g reference!

[@GitGudFox]

The first comment to get the reference!

[@nerodelacroix9281]

@@GitGudFox after almost a year? Does it mean I have to sub and try sod2 now?

[@windupperson712]

Does the pathology increase of plague sample trait community wide?

[@GitGudFox]

Just to the guy who knows Pathology.

[@windupperson712]

@@GitGudFox omg thank you for replying so quick lol. I wasn’t expecting a reply at all, much less from you 😂. Been enjoying your content, man. Very helpful. Got back into the game recently after not playing it for a long time (not really on purpose)

[@GitGudFox]

I mainly reply to questions. I speed read basically all of the comments but answer questions primarily.

[@mohamaddody1338]

If u need to max out a prime skill just read a book of it and it will be able to begin upgrade

[@GitGudFox]

You can that though it loses effectiveness as you increase the difficulty. I read a book on Lethal Zone and got 1 star of EXP from it.

[@mohamaddody1338]

@@GitGudFox thanks for mentioning this

[@thomaswilliams430]

Can we do this for the higher difficulties?

[@GitGudFox]

Yes, it's worth it to have both a surgeon and a pathologist on Lethal Zone.

[@andrewsalyer9658]

Anyone know if these can be used at outposts?

[@spenceryang9268]

is there a craftsmanship video

[@GitGudFox]

No, there are a few 5th skills that I haven't done. Craftsmanship is not great though if you want the short opinion. I would say something like "this skill is not great." lol.

[@Insanity-vv9nn]

I think medicine is fun if you play with a team of doctors, but its really useless since it gives you things you dont need. I play in nightmare mode and I dont get hurt that much, I havê a shell full of meds, mainly because your characters auto heal in the base, so there is no need to make meds.( except for influence)

[@GitGudFox]

If I re-reviewed this, for Nightmare Zone, I would say surgery is pretty good as the injury reduction actually does make a difference when you get sneak attacked by ferals. It also helps improve the odds that your resist the critical damage from a headshot from hostile humans.

[@TheFrigginDevil]

So which skills do you think are essential?

[@GitGudFox]

Automechanic is probably the most important skill.

[@theurbangoose6918]

PILLS HERE PILLS PILLS GRAPPIN PILLS

[@vindicatorg8392]

Pills here

[@GitGudFox]

Grabbin' pills!

[@warriornatorgaming1313]

You have all wrong. Medicine is 100% needed in the game if you want a smooth and easy gameplay. Undead Lab just forgot to mentioned Infirmary Level 3 remove completely Blood Plague Bar for each community in passives list. That means if you choose someone at the beginning with Medicine and build Infirmary Level 3. You don't need to farm plague simple or use plague cure. A lots of people didn't know this information because its not writing in the game at least in passives but you see it by yourself when gaming when one of them is close to have blood plague let's say at 95%, switch characters and later when back to the same character then the blood plague is gone at 0%. Plague Simple and Plague Cure is close useless when you have Medicine. A lots of people dying because of this. Sad Undead Lab forgot this very important information. People don't have paid attention its not writting in passives list but if you paid attention in see description on infirmary 3 you see is mentioned Treats Blood Plague. So Computer,Medicine and Mechanics are those 3 necessary for the best gameplay when you begin the game. Infirmary 3,Command Center 3 and Worshop 3 and you are good to survive easily this game without any dead body. Later is easy to get Gardening

[@GitGudFox]

All of these assertions are false. 1) I have proven with video evidence 4 Nightmare Zone legacy completions without needing medicine. I completed them quickly, and rarely did anyone die. 2) You do not need a level 3 infirmary to recover from blood plague. You don't even need an infirmary at all to recover from blood plague. All characters you aren't playing will recover from blood plague over time. This can be sped up with a sanitization machine or a wash basin. 3) Any level of partial blood plague infection can be easily removed by spending 2 blood plague samples in an infirmary. It does not require a level 3 infirmary. 4) You should not be getting very much blood plague to begin with. If you are, it is a signal that you are taking too much damage and need to focus on improving your combat skills / judgement in knowing what to fight. Blood plague should pose 0 threat to you. You don't need a level 3 workshop. You don't need a level 3 infirmary. None of these things you've asserted are essential to survival even at the highest levels of difficulty.

[@warriornatorgaming1313]

@@GitGudFox lol if you said so

[@twitch7515]

I don't think you should be able to make any pills without Pharma, you shouldn't be able to make any cure without Pathology, injuries should heal very slowly without Medicine, and injuries should heal quickly with Surgery. If you haven't been blessed with those options from the start then you'll have to scavenge, trade, and recruit.

[@GitGudFox]

That would make the game into more of a survival game which I like. I think in return we'd need to reduce the amount of damage per hit you take.

[@twitch7515]

@@GitGudFox Perhaps, although I'd like to see a factor like damage per hit to be one of those difficulty sliders that players can control. I'd want the game to always feel gritty and dangerous so that every character is incredibly important. If, due to a lack of medically trained survivors in the group, our gardener suffers an injury that results in a "Permanent Limp" trait, I would want gardeners to be seen as so very valuable that I still think long and hard about expelling them from the community. After all, gardeners don't need to be fast. Assign them to eight-hour shifts in the watchtower and watch them become the best sharpshooter on the team! And if, later on, you have a surgeon, a level 3 Infirmary in your community, a few extra bags of medicine, and a week to allow your gardener to recover, you could perform surgery on the gardener and remove the Permanent Limp trait. In a real apocalypse a beggar can't be a chooser. You have to work with what you've got instead of what you wish you had. In real life there would be no chance to spend 150 influence to shop around for a new survivor. By all means... if it floats their boat, I want players to have an arcade-style options where they can build a "Tail Team" consisting of nothing but lesbians who wear pony tails and look good in tight jeans. But I don't mind handicapping myself a bit for realism, and if difficulty sliders in the Options Menu can allow for that, then game on! Give me consequences, sobering grit, and gimpy gardeners!

[@GitGudFox]

The more damage that enemies do, the less of a survival game you're playing and the more of an action game you're playing. - Action games have quick times to kill but lots of retries at save points. - Survival games have slow times to kill, with some exceptions, but is more harsh on you for retrying with up to permanent death. Another problem with high damage is that you necessarily HAVE to create the game in a way that avoiding damage is possible; otherwise, the game can't be won. That means the inevitable answer is to just play in a way that involves you never taking damage to begin with because the damage is too high to be survivable. High damage doesn't mean tension. High damage means you learn an avoidance meta.

[@GitGudFox]

There are some exceptions, having some sources of very high damage help to create like "apex predator" kind of things like a bear coming and swatting you down, but I've never really liked lots of spikey damage in a survival game because it always encourages evasive behavior.

[@twitch7515]

@@GitGudFox I don't necessarily want damage to get higher. If SoD3 were built around the idea of making it more like 28 Days Later I probably wouldn't buy it. I'm happy with the average zombie dolling out and taking less damage than what the average human could do. Because I'm happy with the current damage output, I wouldn't want it lower just because I want more realistic consequences for getting injured. I understand that others may not want more consequences, which is why... ...I'd suggest to Undead Labs is that they offer more detailed difficulty sliders. SoD2's limited options doesn't allow a player to customize injuries or zombs and I think that's unfortunate. I'd be fine with Juggs ripping me in half after just 3 hits (by virtue of him being a boss character of sorts), but I'd also like him to only take one or two 50 cal shots to the noggin. Blood ferals have built-in noggin protection so that explains their resistance, but there's no obvious reason why it takes 5-6 50cal shots to kill a Juggs. If there was a way to customize Juggs then I could play the way that makes the game fun for me without ruining the game for others. Likewise, if you want the survival aspect without the tedium that can come with it, customize it to where the game is fun and profitable for you.

[@BattleBazOnline]

Pill skills

[@GitGudFox]

Pills here!

[@THE_REAL_EXECUTIONER]

No offense but I wish you didn't just ramble on. You could have just said step by step what to do but whatever.

[@GitGudFox]

That's how these guides were originally, but I got a lot of complaints about it sounding too robotic and fast paced, so I changed them based on feedback to be slightly slower and more conversational.

[@GitGudFox]

To be more specific, after getting enough complaints, I surveyed my audience and asked if they wanted videos that just bam, bam, bam jumped from 1 point to another to save as much video time as possible, or if they wanted more conversational videos that would increase video length by 50-100% but sounded more organic. The vote was wildly in favor of more conversational videos, over 90% voted that way.

[@zachb1706]

Git Gud Fox imo the comparison videos should be quick, too the point and points out all of the niches, pros and cons.

[@Bongolores]

1337

[@joaquinalekzandertagon7037]

Gomu

[@joaquinalekzandertagon7037]

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[@joaquinalekzandertagon7037]

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[@joaquinalekzandertagon7037]

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