Medieval Art is often ABSOLUTE FANTASY!

A lot of medieval art is just fantasy art! It's a difficult historical source to use, but does that mean it is worthless?
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#medieval #history #art

[@HoJu1989]

If it doesn't exist already, we must create a sub-sector of historical reenactment that especifically (and not by accident) reconstructs the fantasy designs of the period: pure historical cosplay.

[@aaftiyoDkcdicurak]

Like retro futuristic sci-fi.

[@vedymin1]

I want to see a bunch of dudes dressed like medieval superheroes riding at each other on horses with with big zweihanders wielded in two hands while standing in their stirrups, fully bisecting each other, including the horses 😎 😇

[@motagrad2836]

Oh, that could be hysterical historical. Or maybe capitalized as Hysterical Historical(s)

[@jswets5007]

That is inclusive in the SCA.

[@heroepato]

Pre-modern fantasy LARPing

[@cadenceclearwater4340]

Massive pinches of salt are excellent for repelling giant snails 🐌

[@corvus_da]

And for destroying Carthage, too!

[@haynesdevon0]

SNAILS TO ARMS

[@buildingblocks51]

That dude in the weird armor carrying 4 messers was trying so hard to get noticed and super excited when he found out that he had been painted and will be known for all of time only to be called a bit of pure fantasy.

[@cyrylkowalczyk9392]

:D

[@WulfCorbett]

Back when Advanced Dungeons & Dragons was new, our group included one character with so many magical weapons he hired a caddy to carry them in a golf bag... "Hand me my number 5 sword!"

[@jordanandrew2786]

Excellent.

[@boogaboogaboogaable]

'Caddy' would make a great fantasy RPG class.

[@dwaneanderson8039]

@@boogaboogaboogaable They had them irl. They were called "squires."

[@chengkuoklee5734]

Caddy:" Sir, considering 7 out of 10 enemies has chainmail, I highly recommend no 3 mace, lighter but having greater reach."

[@King.Leonidas]

@chengkuoklee5734 you gave me an idea for gurps

[@blasty137]

I'm one of the people who constantly complain about movies not being realistic - and I don't mean only visually buy also by the action scenes being over the top. However, when you read medieval epics, which were basically a medieval equivalent of modern action movies, it turns out that they really weren't all that different from modern popular media - they often feature protagonists butchering hordes of enemies, wildly swinging oversized weapons, splitting an armored rider and a horse with a single sword blow, etc. It's pretty much Rambo with a sword.

[@dashcammer4322]

That goes all the way back to Gilgamesh and Enkidu, swinging cedar trees vs Humbaba.

[@exploatores]

I have a hard time watching most modern action movies. especialy if someone should be a former specialforces. as most of them are as bad as medival art. the diffrence is that it wouldn´t have taken five minuts on google for the medival artist to find out how the correct uniform looks, what kind of gear they where expected to have.

[@DalHrusk]

I thought all the action movies and games about former green berets are unrealistic bulshit. But then I learned about Roy Benavidez and I had to redefine my understanding what can be possible for a human being. Every boy would like to be a real life Rambo but Rambo would like to be Benavidez. Absolute legend!

[@galaxya40s95]

​@@DalHrusk wow, just finished reading the wiki article. What a man!

[@oscaranderson5719]

@@DalHruskmy problem usually isn’t unrealistic scenarios, it’s more like I have a mini panic attack whenever someone walks past a doorway without checking, absolutely terrifying. or worse- they walk directly into a room! ah, btw some guys did an SCP horror short with a lot of room-clearing, it was pretty cool. nothing ramps up anxiety quite like haunted house CQB.

[@wwm84]

11:35 That note about artists unintentionally making minor characters historically accurate is real. Kingdom of Heaven for example, when they're all gathered for the speech before the final assault, you can see the general troops wearing surprisingly accurate maille armor, probably the most accurate portrayal I've seen in film. Not only full-sleeve hauberks that reach to the knees, but maille chausses that are even gartered at the knees (you almost never see maille chausses), mostly accurate helms and shields, and arms.

[@Aussie_Archmage]

FWiW (and you probably already know this) film/tv often use local groups of re-enactors etc to fill out their extras because it saves an absolute killing on expensive costuming, especially if you just need to mill around and look busy. Same thing with getting soldiers in for anything that requires moving in formation. Drilling actors to do parade work is much harder that training a soldier to look like a soldier for thirty seconds. My favourite is still the Rohirrim in Lord of the Rings, which is rather famously largely composed of teenaged horse girls with faux facial hair because they could already ride well enough. No wonder nobody clocked Éowyn.

[@fabiosplendido9536]

The ones showing Knights jousting with giant snails are accurate though right?

[@mitcharcher7528]

The wars with snails and bunnies are a matter of historical record. Humanity must never forget our ancestral struggle.

[@Riflelock]

Simply put, yes.

[@-Zevin-]

The great snail wars are no laughing matter, the only more terrible conflict against nature was the great Emu war in Australia.

[@Dennis-lp7xe]

Only if they wear faceshields and throwing pommels 😅

[@dashcammer4322]

That was only after they ate some mushrooms. Yes, those mushrooms...

[@kyuken893]

What I'm getting out of this is that modern media is just continuing the proud and longstanding tradition of history inaccuracy. Thanks for the video, and I definitely would watch that wacky read through.

[@Superbatmanbro]

Exactly 👍🏿

[@Tranzisto]

As an artist myself I can also add that medieval art is not useless for historical reference because making stuff up is a different "artistic muscle", so to speak, that almost needs to be developed sepatately to the actual drawing/painting skill, or might be a separate sort of talent altogether and I'm pretty sure medieval people weren't that interested in developing this ability. Their focus seemed to be on the more technical aspects, like rendering the mist realistic illustration or adding thr most amount of details, and when you simply "know" what "the armor" looks like because you've seen only a couple types of it that are specific to your area and time period, you'd simply try to make "the armor" look as great as possible, without questioning whether it's historically correct (that notion is a much later development) or appropriate for the depicted character. They simply didn't have the access to the wealth of visual knowledge that we have today, and (with some rare insane exceptions like Hieronymous Bosch) coming up with crazy creative visuals wasn't in the cards for them the way it is for the artists today.

[@davedavidson8208]

I mean,it was to a certain degree. there are plenty of medieval and ancient depictions of demons, monsters, and other things that were just purely of the artists mind. though I do agree with the point you're making to a degree. especially because early medieval artists had no "rules" of how to draw something; perspective, proportions, etc. were all things they knew about, but didn't know what was "correct" quite yet, or materials were so rare/expensive that if they drew something too big or too small they couldn't just scrap it and start again. but they had to roll with those errors and make it presentable anyway.

[@Tranzisto]

@@davedavidson8208 Guess I should've phrased it a bit differently, I was talking specifically about the armor/attire/weaponry, medieval artists simply didn't seem to have the need to come up with something new and original in that field the way fantasy artists have been doing for the past ~100 years. And even the fantastical beasts they've designed are very meh by modern standards (with Bosch being the most obvious exception, his nightmarish visions are something else entirely) which goes back to my point how it requires a different set of artistic skills to make stuff up.

[@DanH34]

I love Medieval art. The sheer level of detail, the amazing colours derived from organic inks, the phenomenal state of preservation after all these centuries. Incredible, really, when you think about it.

[@christopherkucia1071]

And the inks were usually made local from the environment. Places having different common hues.

[@MosBikeShop]

And the giant jousting snails

[@petrapetrakoliou8979]

On the other hand medieval knights did impersionate notoriously mythical figures, dressed up like them, took up their names, wore their coat of arms, not just in tournaments, but sometimes even in real life, especially of arthurian heroes, like the German knight who went around Italy clad as Arthurian heroes and defied and fought with real people going by bridges and then wrote it down proudly in his autobiography. So you might have had a few of those wacky looking knights actually walking around like in manuscripts...

[@heilmodrhinnheimski]

You don’t maybe know the name of said knight? Sounds fascinating

[@petrapetrakoliou8979]

@@heilmodrhinnheimski Ulrich von Liechtenstein. Generally he was dressed as king Arthur. In another trip he was dressed as the goddess Venus who also fought.

[@garrenbrooks4778]

​@@petrapetrakoliou8979he also rode against the black prince of Wales on the tourney Field!

[@petrapetrakoliou8979]

@@garrenbrooks4778 Must be another one, the one I speak about was living in the middle of the 13th century, not a hundred years later.

[@thewickedwhydah]

@@garrenbrooks4778 and painted his face like a jester.

[@Magey_McMage]

A more clothing based one, but if you see a figure in the same general dress of the mid-late 15th century of the Burgundians/nobility, except instead of long sleeves with slits for the arms and doublet to show through, they have elbow length sleeves with fur trim, that is typically short-hand for someone of the Orient/MENA royalty. You see this a lot in religious depictions of the 3 Kings or illustrations of Alexander the Great/old classical stories.

[@borjaslamic]

First time hearing the MENA abriviation, I like it

[@Magey_McMage]

@@borjaslamic its a lot easier than remembering how to spell "Mediterranean" when meaning the Barbary Coast/Levantine/etc. cultures that all survived around that area.

[@westinharris5190]

@@Magey_McMage Can your provide examples of historical images where this is evident? Or even just some google keywords? I tried a number of google queries but couldn't find any examples. I don't disbelieve your claim, but I would love to see some examples. Thanks!

[@Magey_McMage]

@@westinharris5190 en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magi_Chapel if you go down to Procession, Balthazar is a good example. All 3 magi here are different likely to differentiate them from each other, but the way their gown and headwear is very similar to a chaperon and houppelande but slightly different is really cool!

[@westinharris5190]

Thanks! Cheers.

[@westinharris5190]

As a PhD candidate working with illustrated and illuminated manuscripts myself, I mostly agree, but the way you are conflating art historical evidence vs. behavioral evidence strikes me (pun intended) as dangerous. Refuting an IMAGE as fantasy does not necessitate the refutation of the ACTUAL BEHAVIOR shown in the image, because they are not necessarily dependent. For example, since none of us were alive then, at best all we can really say is that "All the evidence for carrying four messers comes from fantasy images. Therefore, with our present evidence it seems unlikely that anyone carried four messers." In contrast, you are much more cavalier in your proclamation that "These images are fantasy therefore no one ever actually did that." That seems like a massive logical leap and, frankly, caught me off guard (again, pun intended) coming from a scholar of your caliber.

[@stevemcgroob4446]

Anime: "I'll give my main characters spiky hair so they stand out in a crowd." Medieval artist: "I'll give my main characters weird amor so they stand out in a crowd."

[@aaronlaughter6471]

Got to be honest, if I had to choose spikey hair or some weird armor, im picking the funny armor every time.

[@SkinnyBlackout]

@@aaronlaughter6471 What's wrong with spiky hair? I had a dude who was into punk culture back in school and he was wearing spiky hair for days. Had to get up 2 hours before school to set the hair, but he was popular.

[@aaronlaughter6471]

@SkinnyBlackout yeah, and everyone stood and clapped. My hair is naturally curly, I don't see you kissing my ass for getting up and straightening it.

[@SkinnyBlackout]

@@aaronlaughter6471 What's with such juvenile response? Are you insecure or something?

[@aaronlaughter6471]

@SkinnyBlackout because you acted juvenile when I responded to the original comment that I would take armor any day. Self-awareness is not big with you, is it.

[@dey-sama265]

April fools prank idea: make a video about fantasy weapons like they were real, and show art to "prove it"

[@Temujin1206]

This isn't just a European phenomenon either-some of our best depictions of Mongol arms and armour (or at least Ilkhanid arms and armour) come from the illustrated mauscripts of the Shahnameh, an epic poem and compendium of Persian history . This creates some highly amusing images, like Alexander the Great riding around with his companion cavalry in Mongolian deel robes with long Turco-Mongol sabres and recurved bows at their waists-however once you discount a few clearly fantasy elements and ignore the context the artist was claiming to depict what you're left with are a series of images that align very closely with extant finds and period descriptions of high-class Mongol arms and armour. It may be completely ahistorical for the periods and locations where the Shahnameh was set and it's heavily skewed towards higher-class items but it's still a fantastic insight into the Ilkhanid and broader Mongol world at the time the artists were working (usually 14th-15th centuries, since the Timurids continued the illustrated Shahnameh tradition).

[@manchagojohnsonmanchago6367]

True, some times fantasy has some truths in it but just not in the contect of the fantasy veing depicted

[@Theduckwebcomics]

Do to find that Chinese depictions of Mongolian fighters from the time are usually armed and dressed like Chinese warriors?

[@manchagojohnsonmanchago6367]

@@Theduckwebcomics sometimes yes sometimes no. Id say honeslty the chinese were better at depicing the nomadsnthan many other cultures in many occasions. Youll find many incorrect depictions are done by people who never saw a mongol or turkmen. But others are exceptionally detailed.. Showinh their peculiarities. Fingering the guards of the swords. Their lanyards on their sword, stirrups and horse tack, their different types of swords, their odd haircuts. Their armour.. Some are really detailed and have detailed explanations about the nomads habits and weaponry. I was looking at a good chinese picture showing nomads with sword drawn with very good deails. Theirnbelts, scabbards ect were very accurate the metal ricassos on the swords were visable a distinct feature of turko-nomad swords. Their belts were visable and very distinct as were the boots, hair, faces ect. Ive neber seen european depictions of mongols so accurate and detailed.

[@5peciesunkn0wn]

@@manchagojohnsonmanchago6367 Well, the Chinese had been fighting them for literal millennia, as opposed to an on-again off-again random raids every so often. So makes sense they'd have more accurate portrayals of them.

[@Temujin1206]

@@Theduckwebcomics Yes, what Manchango said, and that's another example of what Matt was talking about in terms of art reflecting cultural ideals. The Islamic world was highly pluralistic and multicultural while China (despite ruling over more than just ethnic Chinese) was relatively more insular, with a clearly defined barrier between the civilised Chinese and the primitive "Northern Barbarians", which created a pressure to depict the steppe "barbarians" as inherently un-Chinese in any possible way. Sometimes that would be a conscious decision made by the artist but it could also simply be a matter of their own internalised prejudices impacting their art unconciously-encouraging them to depict the steppe nomads as alien or different by drawing them as very distinct from the Chinese (either by accurately depicting the differences between the two material cultures or by incorporating more fantastical ideas, depending on circumstances). In contrast by the time the Mongols show up the Islamic world had already absorbed a number of steppe cultures (e.g. the Seljuqs and Kharwezmians) and relied heavily on Ghilman/Mamalik slave-soldiers who were often steppe nomads captured as children and then assimilated into Islamic society, meaning Muslim artists were more commonly exposed to steppe nomads who blended different bits of steppe and Islamic culture together, and were also less likely to identify steppe nomads as an "out-group" in the way Chinese artists would, meaning they more commonly depict steppe nomads as rather Arab or Persian in appearance. To some extent that does reflect the reality of steppe influences on Islamic culture (which of course only increased under the Mongols), however it is also partially a product of the way the artists thought about and understood steppe peoples in relation to the Islamic world.

[@billbrockman779]

I saw a photo of a WW2 GI absolutely festooned with captured German weapons as he posed. Some future reenactment perhaps would think that normal equipment for the day if little else survived.

[@digitaljanus]

I mean in WWII "Mad" Jack Churchill did carry a longbow, Scottish basket-hilted broadsword, and bagpipes into battle alongside his standard kit so it's not like _nobody_ was carrying an arsenal. 😅

[@garethvila5108]

As a modern day artist myself, I can assure you that it's not uncommon for artists to just get things wrong for a lot of different reasons, and we should assume the same happened back then. Even though you focus on aesthetic reasons, like making it clear who is who on a painting or some things on those lines, there's always the chance that they simply did it wrong. For some reason, people assume old art is realistic and depicts armor and weapons properly, but we cannot assume that is always the case. The artist may have never seen up close those armors and weapons, so they may be representing the overall look properly, but get all the details wrong. Just imagine what happens if a modern day artist tries to draw a modern tank without reference pictures. You may be able to understand that's a tank, and maybe the artist is good enough to make it look realistic, but a military expert will look at that and think "that's absolute unrealistic garbage" because the artist missed all the details. Artistic representations aren't real life pictures. They are useful, of course, but anything weird within it should be considered an unrealistic representation until it's proven to be a real thing. It's likely that it's the artist's fantastical interpretation or a simple error due to lacking proper references. Assuming that a picture representing a weird weapon or armor is proof of the existence of that item is like assuming dragons, giant snails or sword-wielding bunnies existed because they're represented on medieval art.

[@eirikronaldfossheim]

You nailed it with this video. Short and straight to the point. One good example is the vision slits on the bascinets. Some surviving helmets have vision slits with bars, but when did they start to use them? To answer this question we can go to art when it's corroborated with archeological evidence. On its own it's not worth much though.

[@fujikoalfonso7448]

Archeological evidence isn't always the best way to judge most of the time we end up with survivorship bias, as a lot of extant pieces especially for earlier centuries do not exist anymore or materials were re-used and recycled. The best bet would be taking the context of the manuscripts into consideration, how often it shows up and perhaps if there's any carvings or effigies depicting this armor.

[@TheBaconWizard]

Definitely would enjoy a future vid or vids about medieval art depictions of "fantasy" weapons and armour

[@petrapetrakoliou8979]

About a previous video on curved guarded swords: check out the "Verduner Altar" from 1181 which shows a nice grim warrior clad in mail using a curved guarded sword on the panel showing the arrestation of Jesus. If you search for it in German you can find high resolution pictures of it. It is also perhaps the most naturalistic representation of its age.

[@itsgorani9133]

Having recently read the interpretation of the "Fries Chronicles", which summarize important aspects of the medieval rulers of my hometown (mostly duke bishops) from the time of Charlemagne to the mid of the 16th century, there is a lot of symbolism happening: Leaders of soldiers pretty much exclusively wear hats or have open visors (so we see their faces). Guards on foot are represented by halbardiers. Severely wounded people often "lost a hand". Men-at Arms don't wear leg armour, noble knights do, etc. And of course everybody is depicted in clothes and armour from the 16th century, the time of the creation of the art, no matter what "scene" is shown, even Charlemagne.

[@leppeppel]

I'd love a video just looking at crazy historical fantasy weapons.

[@motagrad2836]

Yes. Please do an intermittent series on the weird and wacky in art. A nice comparison and contrast of a particular work and why you believe some art word and wacky and background as normal for particular piece(s)

[@S.Gamedev-zc2wp]

I heard that people lived in the present until quite recently and drew stuff from the past like it was happening in their present

[@KorKhan89]

That seems to be true to some extent, and you will see medieval chroniclers using clothing and military equipment from their own time as their primary reference (not least because those were the references they had to hand), but it can be a bit more complex than that. For example, by the late 15th Century the “hounskull” bascinet was almost a century out of date. However, you see it cropping up in paintings from that period as a visual shorthand when depicting people and events from earlier epochs, no matter whether the helmet was accurate to the period depicted - it could be the 14th Century, the 11th Century, or even the 1st century. The main message was “hounskull=old”. Historical and mythical figures were also more likely to be shown in fantastical garb, as discussed in the video.

[@andeluvianspeeddemon4528]

@@KorKhan89 Interesting, so kinda like in for example Ancient Egyptian art: it was depicting ideas, not physical reality. Western art of modern era is of course still full of symbolism and intertextuality, but even more so in Medieval art?

[@KorKhan89]

@@andeluvianspeeddemon4528 Yeah I would definitely say so. Iconography and symbolism were absolutely central to medieval art, and it was only towards the end of the period that representing the world “as it is” also became a major concern, when the stylised figures and flat perspectives of the Romanesque and Gothic gave way to the realistically proportioned bodies and linear perspectives of the early Renaissance. (although this “pure” realism would soon be abandoned again in 16th Century Mannerism) Historical accuracy is an even more recent concern. In the 16th and 17th Centuries, Bruegel’s paintings and Shakespeare’s plays are chock full of anachronisms, often because they were using historical events to make statements about their present day.

[@gayforbrae5693]

Kinda reminds me of those paintings of comically large livestock that people like to laugh at and say the artist had never seen a cow before when in reality it was just the medieval version of photoshopping your chest bigger

[@Robert399]

It's like studying Captain America's outfit vs. studying the extras and environments to get a sense of New York.

[@fujikoalfonso7448]

On another note many high medieval depictions of stories or biblical illuminations for example, David v Goliath, will depict these soldiers often in the period's armor. Minus the context of adding "ancient" greaves or a wacky face shield. The rest of the armor is quite accurate from hauberk to helmet, maille chausses, swords, etc.

[@vivianevans8323]

Yes, please - a video on the weird and whacky stuff would be great - as would be one on the more subtle details. Thanks, Matt!

[@agrippa2012]

in before the inevitable _"if you want to know more about medieval art i recommend the Schwerpunkt channel"_ bot/self-promotion comment 💀

[@scholagladiatoria]

😂

[@gwynbleidd1917]

Whats schwerpunkt?

[@TheAncientAstronomer]

​@@gwynbleidd1917It means main emphasis.

[@gwynbleidd1917]

@@TheAncientAstronomer danke

[@TheAncientAstronomer]

@@gwynbleidd1917 👍

[@leonwilkinson8124]

This video has been an eye opener. Apart from one instance pointed out to me where Hieronymous Bosch included a glass cylinder in a painting years before one was actually produced, I had been thinking of art as representational. I would very much like to see a video on the "weird and wacky" representations in medieval art. Thank you!

[@CrimeVid]

A lot of the reason for coloured armour, is for the same reason that maps were coloured differently per area, To distinguish one person from another in the picture.

[@GallowglassAxe]

I always wonder the accuracy of this artwork even of contemporary art. Like for example if we were a researcher from the future and we're studying 20-21st century firearm techniques of the Americas would looking at hollywood movies be a good source of information? I mean Hollywood is in the United States which is known to have a strong gun culture so it would make sense that these films would portray the use of guns in a very accurate and realistic manner. Next thing you know you have researchers reconstructing the lost gun kata of Equilibrium. Obviously, I'm not talking about actual treatises or manuals on gun use but from movies that were made for entertainment. I know a certain youtuber who used that logic on how to use a longbow. To his credit he did demonstrate that you could do it reliably with a heavy poundage bow but his reasoning for why this was done was still flawed.

[@kacperwoch4368]

I'm laughing just at the thought that some historian will come across people imitating Revolver Ocelot doing tricks with his guns and wonder if this technique gave the gunner any tactical advantage or if it was just some fancy shooting and a shorthand for saying "he's pretty good".

[@GallowglassAxe]

@@kacperwoch4368 Well since Metal Gear was made in Japan will they interpret as this is Japanese style of gunnery or is it the Japanese perception of American gunnery?

[@IPostSwords]

Very good video, nice to see discussion of the shorthand used re: falchion, "scimitar" and how it related to actual kilic designs

[@Joe___R]

Don't discount a random soldier who seems to be too heavily armed. There will always be soldiers who want to have as many weapons as possible on them when going into battle. It is common now, and I can guarantee it was common hundreds of years ago.

[@zepetv589]

I'm curious if that mention towards the end refered to the famous Morgan/Maciejowski bible falchion.

[@VonDilling]

I was definitely thinking that's what he was referring to. Especially since it was Windlass that made that reproduction.

[@nathanielreichert4638]

Apparently you are in a HEMA chat with one of my mates. 😂 this was a great lesson on art history. Really neat

[@Emperor_Oshron]

i remember once seeing some (i think) Renaissance-era art depicting the Greek myth of Theseus, specifically showing him an an "obviously symbolic" version of the Labyrinth fighting the Minotaur (as in, if taken literally, they would both be kaiju-sized and the Labyrinth was about the size of a big dinner table relative to them). the more relevant part of that to the video is that Theseus was shown wearing full plate armor :P

[@baltasartranconywidemann5129]

Sometimes the artwork might even depict early LARPers in actual wacky gear, like Don Quixote.

[@FortyTwoBlades]

A good example where artist experience clearly is represented in the artwork is Caravaggio! He was a notorious arms nut and got in trouble with the law several times over owning or carrying swords he wasn't supposed to have. His representations of swords in his artwork are much more accurate than many of his peers as a result. In my own field of study, scythes and related agricultural vegetation management tools, artistic portrayals are often VERY clearly inaccurate or under-detailed. In the modern era, Andrew Wyeth's works featuring scythes show his clear familiarity with the tool, and they are depicted in high detail and great accuracy. His father, N.C. Wyeth, displays a similar degree of familiarity. Winslow Homer is also a reliable artistic source. But many historical depictions of scythes, especially in the medieval period, are tremendously suspect in the way they portray the tool, and it is very unclear at times what parts of those depictions are reasonably accurate and which parts are complete fabrication.

[@hansimgluck9207]

Thaaaaaaaaaank you for such a video. Often people see in sources what they are searching for more than what the source wants to tell them. A critical reviewer knows that and should be more on the sceptical part of the spectrum about the reliability of medieval art as a source for historian interest.

[@patrickobrien8165]

Very good video. I would love to hear more about the how/why the European weapons/armor developed differently from the Ottomans

[@LuxisAlukard]

Weird and wacky arms and armour deserve it's own video, imo

[@FortuneFavoursTheBold]

Hi Matt. Yet another well-reasoned video! Do you think the Maciejowski Bible falchions (both one-handed and two-handed) with a broadening blade and several spikes on the edge are a medieval fantasy sword, as we have never found any surviving examples, unlike reverse-edge falchions?

[@pjm2599]

Another great video, I totally agree, when I am studying art for arms and armour I like to find out the date it was created to see if it could be misleading, I work at Canterbury cathedral and one of the end panels of Henry IV tomb depicts the 12C murder of Becket however the knights have all got 15C kit.

[@incandifferent]

I wish upon a Matt Easton. Talk more about this stuff. Medieval art, what does it mean, what is real, what can we learn, for whom was it made, by who? What do we know, what can we know, where, when, why? How were they presented, are there songs associated? Specifics. More please.

[@EriktheRed2023]

I would never turn down an offer of Matt Easton showing me some weird & wacky stuff!

[@MDVAL_de]

Great Video with a topic a lot more people should pay attention to, especially from reenactment and living history scene.

[@cedhome7945]

Best bit is there's usually a arrow in somebody's arse !

[@M.M.83-U]

Very good video on a very tricky subject. On one hand we have stuff that's clearly fantasy/exotic/all'antica, on the other I've personally visited a church in Sweden with depictions of biblical scenes on the walls where the people was wearing contemporary (to the artist) mid XVII century fashion ( three musketeers style ).

[@matthewmuir8884]

0:48 Incidentally, whenever talking about Roman documents about Rome's enemies, I used to say, "They should be taken with as much salt as Rome allegedly poured on Carthage", then I learned that there's archaeological evidence that they really did salt Carthage, so I changed it to, "as much salt as they really did pour on Carthage".

[@taylor_green_9]

I'd love to see a video on all the fantasy arms and armour from medieval artwork

[@drzoidberg1971]

This is a fun topic. Love to hear more about medieval art !

[@Paladin357]

Manuscripts (at least mostly) are essentially graphic novels. And just like a modern graphic novel doesn't necessarily portray equipment realistically, neither did medieval art. In addition to what you say regarding purposeful fantasy, we also know that, artistically speaking, medieval artists were not focused on realism. As long as the point got across, that was good enough. It's like a modern artist painting a car. It doesn't have to be detailed or exact in order to convey that it's a car - and if that's not the focus of the artwork, the artist probably won't bother. So while the image in the manuscript shows several people with spears, they may not look exactly like an actual spear from that period. Everyone knew what a spear looked like in real life, so the artist didn't need to be exact.

[@playerextremebr1.027]

Wow, imagine a cartoon/manga with medieval images/fantasy, awesome! Thank you for a idea!

[@garrenbrooks4778]

I do mainly swiss/German impressions and I've noticed the lions share of the etchings, woodcuts, etc are portraits. I don't think people take into consideration enough that the people being depicted, even if they're in armor, weren't dressing for battle or their daily going about. They were dressed specifically to have their portrait made. Specifically there's some interesting research that shows the use of feathers in landsknecht fashion probably weren't as widespread as reenactors want them to be. But they're all over the portraits, so they're all over the reenactment scene.

[@barryklohr503]

I would love a video on weird and wacky! That should be a lot of fun.

[@Obstreperous_Octopus]

I went to a museum in Europe once and saw a painting of the siege of Troy, with the Greek forces in full plate armor, wielding pikes and halberds, and all sorts of other things they didn't have in ancient antiquity. So not only is there a lot of fantasy in medieval art, but also people didn't always have access to accurate references for ancient or foreign arms, armor, architecture, etc., so such thing just looked like how they looked in the present day for the artist, rather than how it should have looked. In other words, sometimes what should have looked contemporary wound up looking exotic, while that which should have looked exotic looked contemporary.

[@windalfalatar333]

Extremely good video!!

[@Serahpin]

Looking forward to the bat'leth video.

[@johnmckelvy7155]

Fantastic video for those of us with an interest in medieval art, as distinct from swords and so forth.

[@Leftyotism]

I am interested in more of this.

[@DONJUILIO]

I love this channel

[@knate44]

Ok but now I want to carry a brace of falchions

[@denismourenas4876]

Very interesting thank you.

[@RJ-my4yu]

Psychological warfare: always wear a garter when fencing

[@koncorde]

Ser Ronneth Manager; "Horns for helmets, throwing your pommel, maaaarvellous"

[@DoctyrEvil]

This would make a great and very entertaining talk at a museum. Of course, to the people of the time, many of whom were intimately familiar with all these items, would understand they were looking at fantasy art.

[@pressurechangerecord]

That stands for lots of things including perceived ‘sword fighting’ skills vs ‘fighting’ skills. Like Boxing vs MMA.

[@WhatIfBrigade]

I have my doubts it would be a good idea for a public video, but I would be super interested in seeing a comparison of artwork vs. archeology for a particular battle.

[@Rikushio17]

Hey as a bladesmith some of us love to make those falscions from manuscripts just cause it looks fun to make

[@Kanner111]

I mean, respect to whoever had to draw those swords based on accounts from a friend of a friend of a friend of a friend who briefly saw one.

[@stevedenis8292]

That dude in the weird armor carrying 4 messers Just maxed out his weapons and armor inventory and is either going to a boss fight or back to finish some side quests after he finished the main story.

[@oliverschoneck7750]

The video on weird and wacky stuff would be awesome.

[@swordsman1062]

Definitely an appetite out here for a video analyzing some wacky medieval artwork!

[@Kaiyanwang82]

5:31 that's the result of Damage Reduction rules associated with special materials.

[@dougsinthailand7176]

Let me guess. CONTEXT. For people for whom this art was created, certainly there were references that we have totally lost. Here is a fighter wearing a certain shade of red, and look he’s fingering his hilt. Certainly this must be sir Bedivere!

[@Alex.Ost.2001]

If anything, 4 Messer on your belt is not enough

[@vast634]

Armor that looks blackened: its really hard to draw a reflective metallic surface, even if you want to. The dark armor can simply be polished armor, but drawn using simple black and white.

[@WickedNPC]

Medieval art is a great source of inspiration for me. Fortunately I'm a fantasy illustrator so I can just draw what I think looks good.

[@sh3n3ng]

Imagine 500 years in the future, a period movie reference spandex and cape as 20th century combat uniform.

[@kwanarchive]

How about Men in Tights?

[@lalbus1607]

As always, the context is very important.

[@rafis117]

On the “little guys are sometimes more accurate than major characters” comment, maybe that’s where the artist had more creative control. The customer probably cared more about the main characters when commissioning the art, after all. But it’s not just “realistic artist, motivated customer”, you can imagine all sorts of situations. Maybe sometimes the subject knew what they were talking about and the artist hadn’t been anywhere near a battlefield. Maybe sometimes they were both high on drugs or food poisoning. Maybe sometimes they got details right by accident! Certainly all those things happen today.

[@falqar1.6]

I love when they represent Roland from the 8th century on a full set of plate armour from the 15th century. That's when I realized that artists weren't historians and didn't know any better than what they could see in their present time.

[@dr.victorvs]

Great point. Psychology is crucial when analyzing extant documents and drawings. You need to know what human beings write, what they draw, to make sense of what they did write and draw. Just imagine if aliens analyzed our society via our illustrations.

[@theeddorian]

What make falchion is that you are holding?

[@davidcarr7436]

It's like watching Star Wars and seeing Hans blaster is a Mauser C96 underneath the makeup, as well as Lewis machine guns and MG38's.

[@nickdavis5420]

I haven’t been able to find knights on snail miniatures which is sad 😞

[@OdaManjiro]

There used to be some 3d printable ones on cults3D, but apparently they've disappeared.

[@Jim58223]

5:22 That' mad drip though. As the kids say.

[@Blutroth]

I'm glad that i'm a smallsword fencer where the illustrations in the manuals are pretty accurate there in the 18th century...and therefore don't have to deal with this medieval guessing game "could it be?" hehe

[@user-uw4vm7hw8w]

i would love to see a video on weird and wacky medieval art

[@-RONNIE]

I appreciate the video ⚔️

[@ArsenicApplejuice]

Pinches of salt also go well with bolognese sauces too!

[@TheZinmo]

Yes, please! More weird and whacky stuff (but always with context)!

[@matthewmillar3804]

DO A VIDEO ON WEIRD AND FANTASTICAL ART! PLEASE!!!

[@lv2943]

Absolutely do a video examining medieval art, mundane and weird and wacky both.

[@Odin029]

The guy at 5:22... if Commando had been made in the 15th century

[@johnladuke6475]

What do you mean "if there's an appetite for it" you'll make a video about the weird & wacky? Of _course_ we need to see that. If there's that much of it, perhaps it could be a running series; it would certainly be interesting to learn about some of the trends and tropes that way. With some of the images, you might be able to spawn a "weird weapons" episode with Tod.

[@Book-bz8ns]

takes time to learn what makes sense. experience and practice.

[@galaxya40s95]

I would definitely like to see you comment on the medieval images.