The PROBLEM with DRINKING WINDOWS

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Drinking Windows: Good or Bad?
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I use this wine key: Forge de Laguiole Ebony
I have used this glass in this Video: Nude Stem Zero Powerful Red Wine
I have tasted the following wines in this Video:
2021 Schloss Johannisberg Gelblack Riesling Trocken, Rheingau, Germany
www.wine-searc... ?referring_site=KSB
2014 Domaine Frederic Mochel Gewurztraminer, Alsace, France
www.wine-searc... ?referring_site=KSB
2011 Bodegas Valdemar 'Conde de Valdemar' Crianza, Rioja DOCa, Spain
www.wine-searc... ?referring_site=KSB
2017 Inama Carmenere Piu Veneto Rosso IGT, Italy
www.wine-searc... ?referring_site=KSB
2015 Bodega Garzon Estate 'Balasto', Maldonado, Uruguay
www.wine-searc... ?referring_site=KSB
2013 Domaine de la Tourade Gigondas Cuvee Font de Aieux, Rhone, France
www.wine-searc... ?referring_site=KSB
2000 Chateau du Tertre, Margaux, France
www.wine-searc... ?referring_site=KSB
The 100 Point Scoring System (from www.robertparker.com):
96-100: An extraordinary wine of profound and complex character displaying all the attributes expected of a classic wine of its variety. Wines of this caliber are worth a special effort to find, purchase and consume.
90 - 95: An outstanding wine of exceptional complexity and character. In short, these are terrific wines.
80 - 89: A barely above average to very good wine displaying various degrees of finesse and flavor as well as character with no noticeable flaws.
70 - 79: An average wine with little distinction except that it is soundly made. In essence, a straightforward, innocuous wine.
60 - 69: A below-average wine containing noticeable deficiencies, such as excessive acidity and/or tannin, an absence of flavor or possibly dirty aromas or flavors.
50 - 59: A wine deemed to be unacceptable.
Wine is weird: Most beverages either do not go bad over time like spirits or have a best before date like apple juice. Wine, however, hast a best after and AND best before Date.
The periods between these dates are called drinking windows and they are a big mystery to many of you. Most wine publications show drinking windows next to their scores and tasting notes. While the scores are a controversial topic drinking windows are usually just accepted, even though I think they have significant shortcomings and estimates vary a lot
So let’s find out whether drinking windows are useful or useless by putting them to the test by tasting some old wines from my collection!
While ratings and tasting notes are explained on the websites of wine publications like Robert Parker, Vinous, Wine Spectator and Jancis Robinson, it is far more difficult to find out how these publications determine the drinking windows of the wines they rate.
Even the resourceful Oxford Companion does not have an entry discussing the topic of Drinking windows and I had to dig deep into the Wine Spectator Help pages to find this: Based on a taster’s years of experience with this type of wine, the drinking window suggests when the wine is likely to be at its best. It typically covers a range of years or will state “drink now.” Adjust for your preference if you know you like your wines on the younger or older side-aged wines are an acquired taste-or if your personal experience with the producer or vineyard in question differs.
I actually believe that drinking windows play a very important role when it comes to enjoying your wine. The best wine in the world will not bring you joy if it is past its drinking window, slowly turning into vinegar. They only play a role for a small segment of the worldwide production.
I would say the vast majority of wines is not made for aging but should be consumed within the first two years after bottling. While wine does not go bad like fish, I have tasted many wines that were great and had lost their spark after I opened them and wines that could have been worldclass but were too young to truly show how delicious they are. To taste great wines when they are at their peak we need accurate drinking windows.

[@JabadSBS]

Admit it, this video was just an excuse to open several old bottles in your collection :)

[@clydeblair9622]

Lol

[@seminky5341]

Hah! You got that right

[@sfbassplayer207]

I was at an event last night and we were talking about this very thing. I mentioned that I had just listened to a podcast in which they put forth that the wine makers themselves are the most qualified at proposing the “quality” window as they have the best empirical data (be it weather, winemaking approach, etc.).

[@KrisztinaAgramonte]

I am watching your video while sipping on a Dubourdieu Liaison 2019 Sauternes after work. that has a drinking window of 2023. It’s amazing … I guess , we are not aging , we just fermenting to greatness. 😊 Thank you for what you do. As a sommelier in California , you have been always my biggest inspiration.

[@nathanking6242]

As an early collector, I learned the hard way that, in addition to storage conditions, vintage also plays an enormous role in how the wine ages. A wine of a specific vintage may still drink well, but a slightly younger bottle from the same winemaker may be over the hill. Also, don’t buy aged wine at auction unless you know the storage condition the bottle was kept in for its entire life.

[@MisterHansome]

I do completely agree with you Konstantin. We drink wine far te young most of the time. And the general tast we dont know the more mature notes as leather, etc.

[@elfblood9127]

I've never had a problem with drinking widows. They are usually very pleasant to be around...oh, WINDOWS not WIDOWS... well, I have a window that I drink next to and the children in the neighborhood come by, stare at me, point at me and make fun of me...oh, not that kind of window. (Sorry, I felt compelled.) Another excellent video. Fun to see some of the bottles from your collection and to see how well they are doing. Also enlightening to once again see how the mainstream wine experts are littering our minds with their imperfect expertise. Thanks for the tasting and your take on drinking windows.

[@williamrobinson7435]

Drinking widows are fine, just as long as they don't get all maudlin after glass no 3 about the deceased. 🌟👍

[@reestyfarts]

Helps when they are cute.

[@karlinggard]

How nice of you to taste a wine from my birthyear (2000) on video and release it on my actual birthday! And yeah, I agree with your point on drinking windows. I write wine reviews for a tabloid newspaper myself, and I must admit that whenever I do state drinking windows on age worthy wines, they are usually quite conservative. Great wines are quite robust, and can usually handle a bigger beating than what many of us give them credit for. However, you never know the cellaring conditions of the people reading your reviews, and therefore it's always better to be conservative.

[@KonstantinBaumMasterofWine]

Happy birthday 🎉

[@karlinggard]

@@KonstantinBaumMasterofWine Thank you!

[@mh1972]

Interesting as always

[@hellarnirk99]

It`s all about how you store them and where. I also have a good cellar with annual average temperature 10 degrees by Celsius and this is the key. Thank you for sharing Konstantin!

[@akshay20081974]

Great video! Nice to see you back.

[@holyfox94]

Gave up on drinking windows. Every age is interesting and a great opportunity to learn.

[@dusshan1]

nice opinion i can relate to. lets be honest, i buy my wines to drink them not to look at them in the cellar/fridge/pantry etc. Maybe i shall embrace the opportunity to train my patience, but other that that let someone else do the waiting ;) Konstantin, you on the other hand are a wine collector and i can definitely see the beauty of it. now that i learned more about drinking windows i will most likely start to be more interested in it, but it is still not the no1 parameter. for me - drink first, speculate later :) shall i like the taste of some pieace, stock up and enjoy regularly.

[@gogreenmsu03]

I partially agree with this. For anyone even remotely new to wine, there are limited opportunities to assess whether one prefers aged wines. One either has to buy wines and hold them for a long time, pay a premium for older wines, or have friends with aged wines. The only way to know your preference is to experience wines at various points in their maturities. So I say, don’t be afraid to open wines. Like you said, it’s a great opportunity to learn. On the other hand, once you do have enough understanding of your own palate, and if you find you enjoy them, aged wines can provide transcendent experiences, though sometimes I’ve sadly waited a little too long.

[@GUBB1975]

One of the things that I tell people when they are moving into the realm of being a " collector" is to buy a few bottes if possible and follow them. I have learned so much about how wines arc doing this. Plus, one is les hesitant top pull a cork on a bottle if there are a few in the cellar. Those orphans in the cellar are hard to open sometimes - it lis like getting to listen to a beatles record once with the chance theat the tones are not yet fully realized or that the sounds are fading and past it's peak. i love this about wines cheers

[@welshtoro3256]

Most 'good' wine can last quite a long time in the drinking window. I wasn't at all surprised about the Rioja because Tempranillo is suited to ageing without falling off a cliff. The wine might change a bit but it has a long window rather like Sangiovese. Brunello needs age to hit its best and wine made with Sagrantino needs a lot of time but most modern wine doesn't need to be aged forever any more. What's interesting is that some wine might take a few years to peak but then stays at that quality window for a number of years without deteriorating. I just opened a 2010 Marques de Murrieta Reserva and it's drinking perfectly well and could continue to age for another few years in good conditions. I have to admit though that I'm becoming nervous about my older stuff and the time has come to start opening and enjoying them. You buy a great vintage and sit on it whilst the years roll by. You look at those bottles and they become like friends. It's hard to think of the right occasion to open them and cast them to one side, never to be seen again. The thing is most wine enthusiasts are adding to their collection all the time and stuff's coming in faster than it's going out. At my age it's pointless ageing any new wine for 20 years or more and I need to start enjoying my stash which, after all, I've paid for all those years ago. I watch another interesting wine channel and the host recently opened an old (80's) and premium French wine only to discover that it had peaked and was past it's best. This guy has a massive amount of expensive vintage wine and he's realised he better start drinking it right now before it's too late. By that I mean 'too late' for the wine but also his own mortality. He doesn't need to buy another bottle of wine ever. Anyway, a great episode Konstantin and a very interesting topic. Do we even need 'so called' experts to tell us when we should drink our wine these days? It's so old school and pretty patronising. Joe Public buys supermarket releases for instant opening but those of us that are geeky enough to watch wine reviews on KZbin or buy wine magazines should have enough know-how to make our own minds up. I don't need Robert Parker or others to tell me when to open my own wine. Besides, a drinking window of 3 years is ridiculous. What sort of quality wine goes downhill after that? I completely agree with your conclusion. Cheers. WT

[@melsialiaj]

That is a courageous approach, and I agree with it. I am aging myself quite a few bottles that I have liked in the past. Of course, I have opened a few bad wines in the process, but I have also had some pleasant surprises as well. So, go for it when you believe there is aging potential. Otherwise, you will miss the great experience of opening an amazing aged wine right at its peak.

[@darville7521]

Thank you covering the topic of drinking window. How esteemed wine critics arrive at their estimates remains an enduring mystery. My conclusion is to use drinking windows as a rough guide and sample bottles from time to time. I shall err on the side of caution and try a bottle around later limit and then make up my own mind. Obviously wines need to be stored at optimal conditions for this to work.

[@TheHarryb]

Super interesting idea and great video Konstantin.

[@marknelson8724]

Whenever Konstantin doesn't know what to do, then go ahead and do another drinking window video comparing what you think with the critics drinking windows. I will be rewatching this video. Great topic to dig into.

[@LesPal]

Great video on a subject few talk about. Drinking windows are taken for granted and are rarely scrutinized and re-assessed. Well done Konstantin (you’re a star)! /Pål DipWSET from Stockholm

[@silasrobertshaw8122]

I think storage is far more important in how long before a wine can be consumed than the drinking window. I opened an early 2000s Elu from St. Supery this year that was 5 years past what they said was the window, and it was still delicious.

[@inyobill]

What you said.

[@creamcheeselatte2946]

This viedo is exactly what I wanted!!

[@jakopete1]

Tempranillo is a grape varietie that ages extremely well, so no wonder with the Conde de Valdemar.Congrats Konstantin, such a good Video!

[@welshtoro3256]

Absolutely true. I make that point about Tempranillo in my comment. Check it out.

[@emcavale]

I’ve always felt that cellar tracker has reliable drinking windows provided it’s based on an average of all the combined user opinions and not just a few critics

[@GlenLossie]

The trouble with CellarTracker is that yuo might find a note from someone whos says the wine is over the hill or kaput and it will be followed by another note saying how good it is and has years of life ahead. Using an average is probably wise as it will even out the highs and lows and whatever you get from the wine won't be too far off the average. Ha, ha.

[@rikardo1070]

another good sunday wake up review here in Oregon... Nice topic...well done. I do not care about most reviewers or their comments... especially re windows. If I have a special bottle I am drooling to open...I call the winery(if possible) and ask the tasting room whether anyone there has recently tried my vintage. lots of success there over years. (like the margaux- I am sad u wasted it on us rather than keep) . My wine pals and makers here are confident that many wines can be good at beginning....then turn bad.. (go to sleep) for a while before reawakening and becoming fantastic a few years later. WIne is after all,,,a living thing. and we all need rest now and then. (lol) . besides the good content, I am concerned re your nasal congestion which seems to be persistent in ur life....as a retired natural physician (75) I want to see you clear the mucus up !!! and finally, my friend, snappy neck scarf with cardigan...is this a new German fashion ???? cheers allways.

[@williamrobinson7435]

Drinking windows would be more reliable if one could know for sure how the wine had been treated ALL THE WAY from leaving the vineyard to opening the bottle, so they're something of a guide but, as we see here, not infallible. Most interesting! Nice one Konstantin. 🌟👍

[@Oliverlevy1]

Give the Du Tertre about a 4-hour decant! Such a good wine for the price. I had the 2000 a few months ago.

[@georgeliapis47]

Another wonderful video, thank you (and your green light fun moment)! I recently had a wonderful experience with a 2017 Anselmo Mendes Contacto Alvarinho, whose drinking window is supposed to be till 2026, and I think it was now at its very best - also had a 2023 bottle, and the difference was as you can imagine, insane. Those experiences do last, you are absolutely right.

[@kjw1389]

Had both ch du tertre 2001 and 2004 this summer. Both elegant and floral, especially the 2001. Bdx is such good value.... They just need sooo much time! 😅

[@jackphillips2879]

I’m just starting my sommelier journey and building my own cellar so you’ve made this video just at the right time. I have two questions: how you know where the peak is in the drinking window (the middle?) How you know whether you like aged wine in the first place?

[@marknelson8724]

No one can drink the wine for you. You have to make educated guesses based on your own experience and that means tasting some, or a lot, of wine. The old recommendation was to buy a case of wine and taste a bottle. Then you wait if the wine was not generous and giving and really displaying its fruit. As time passes, you zero in on when the wine is most enjoyable for you. Now 97% of the wine sold in the USA is $14.99 or less and the vast majority of that wine doesn't need to be more than two years old for the white wines and five years old for the red wines. Things get more interesting or trickier when you buy the remaining 3% which are $15 and up to sky's the limit. But even that has gotten easier as the rule of thumb for Bordeaux reds used to be 15 years, but with modern techniques, Jancis Robinson says 10 years now. Have fun on your journey.

[@GlenLossie]

@@marknelson8724 Fair enough comment but keep in mind there are many Bordeaux and of different quality levels.

[@neutraloptions]

I have tried some really old wines that are supposed to be past it long ago, and it is my experience that some (not all) wines have a second coming and begin to improve again in their really old age. Of course this is a matter of opinion and dependent on one’s taste. But personally I do like the characteristics of really old wine that many others would not enjoy. And to finish off with a story told to me about a 70 year old wine that was probably 40+ years “past it’s best”. This was an MW from NZ who was 12 hours late attending a conference (plane delayed), and they had tried a special bottle of a very old red (I do not remember what it was), but I think it was not a first growth or top level wine so not regarded as especially age worthy (so it was more of an experimental thing for the MWs to taste). Unfortunately the wine was very obviously totally dead when opened, and his glass was put aside and pretty much forgotten until he arrived - so his glass of “already dead” wine had been sitting out for maybe 10 hours. And he told me that it was one of the most amazing old wines he had ever drunk which is totally different to what the others had experienced. It seems it just needed to open up for 10 hours in the glass - which just goes against all the “rules” of what you would expect (the exception that proves the rule I suppose). So you never really know for sure about aging and drinking windows…

[@GlenLossie]

Indeed, wines do go through phases, and once a wine I considered overly tannic and without sufficient fruit blossomed a decade earlier.

[@KhelderB]

Really teasing us with the cork throw on the Camenere.

[@solomonmengeu1003]

I think that drinking windows are a very subjective topic and storage conditions, cork quality and vintages all play a role. The quality of the producer often has more to do with how long the wine will last rather than the terroir or appellation, as some prestigious wine regions with wines made by slightly inferior wineries won't last as long as higher quality wines from less well known regions. Another point could be the mass market and average drinkers palate, as not all wine drinkers want a red aromas of forest floor, mushrooms, leather, earth, etc. Or a white wine with petrol, wet wool, dill, acacia, honey, etc. Wine geeks and nerds will probably enjoy these a lot, but a winemaker/winery has to generate profit and increase their sales volume. I have waited too long with some wines and drunk them when they were past their best, but it was a learning experience and now I have a better idea of which wines to age for a bit and which to drink younger. Cheers!

[@peterclement3763]

Hi Konstantin can you do a Sake tasting in the future?😉🥂

[@KonstantinBaumMasterofWine]

Yes

[@peterclement3763]

@@KonstantinBaumMasterofWine 🤗👍

[@LadyAceRoxy]

I didn’t know anyone made Carmenere anymore outside of Chile! Super interesting! Also never had a bad wine from Garzon. They are doing some really amazing stuff over there!

[@ijuswannaluv]

Interesting video, as always! Understanding the drinking window would be more reliable with results from multiple tastings of the same wine and same vintage over time. It’s always fascinating to revisit a wine I tasted years or even decades ago, especially if I have detailed notes to compare how it has evolved, declined, or simply changed.

[@michaelwerfel2863]

Drinking windows I find are very important for whites as going too long can dramatically change the wine to become honey like. Reds, I feel that the peak windows are the hardest to determine as you want to enjoy great wines when they are showing best. How do you figure that out?

[@tedholland7613]

Once again your excellent videos confirm my experience and give me confidence that I was thinking about wine correctly. I do use the windows but just as a general guide. Thanks!

[@mickeylee2624]

Great to see this topic covered concretely!👏👏 To be fair to the critics with their conservative drinking window estimates, perhaps they are factoring in consumers not storing wines in perfect cellar conditions such as with your wines.🤔🤔

[@barath4545]

I had a 1964 Charmbertin Clos de Beze two days ago - Absolutely fine and just perfect to drink now, not a hint of too old. Had a 1947 Lafleur Petrus a week ago that was so massive and yet mature but NOT old, ... I thought it was a 1985 based on the color! ... Just INSANE. Either from an "expert" would have been too old, unless the expert was an actual expert who has had lots of these old wines. Otoh had lots of 6-7 yrs basic wines that were flat and not interesting - Wine is fun that way!

[@wineloversingapore]

The 64 Beze was from which producer?

[@timmy3429]

Tried the second label of Chateau du Tertre vintage 2003 in half bottle. Bought it at the estate for 7,50 EUR. 2003 is of course a vintage that will be stronger for ageing but was surprise that the second label aged in demi bottle was still in the window even if it was at latest in the window. Should not age one more day but it was still a good wine.

[@winterB92]

I love the Schloss johannisburg Rieslings. The silver seal GG is fantastic value

[@jayceperlmutter4317]

Maybe the window on the Gigondas contained a typo and was intended to read 2015-2025?

[@carltpoe]

Very, very well done segment. I’ve been waiting for someone like yourself to dive into this topic, and you did it very well. I have thought long pondering about drinking windows, and I also believe these critics, wine writers are being conservative in order to cover themselves. But I also believe that may be because they realize optimal storage conditions may not be followed by many retracting what could be a much longer window. Well done!

[@werewer54]

Hi Konstantin, could you do a blind taste test on microwaving wine to get it to drinking temperature? Like have one glass of red warm up from fridge temp to drinking temp normally and the other go into the microwave for a few seconds.

[@welshtoro3256]

Microwave wine. Are you serious?

[@GlenLossie]

@@welshtoro3256 That's the good thing about wine, you don't have to be smart to appreciate and enjoy it. In another circumstance you come home from the liquor store with a wine that is too warm. What to do? Easy, put a bunch of ice cubes in your $40 Napa Cabernet.

[@drfranco89]

The drinking window is like a horoscope: it can be accurate, but it might not be.

[@kentpiano2600]

I think this is your best video, you have hit a style of presentation where you feel at one with your topic & your audience, you were really relaxed here. I would like to try the Pais & the Garzon which seemed to have Bordeaux potential ageing, I was surprised the Gigondas can't last longer, an expensive Rhône, and your last wine was a great choice, a down to earth but top appellation wine of the type most aspire to realistically. Tasting ancient or top flight wine is entertaining but I really come here for information on my weekly wine choices. So this video moves my groove, cheers! 🍷

[@abludwig]

Nice sound!!!

[@fredrik_g]

Great video! Love the theme

[@Recidivism543]

I have only one fruit i love! Muscadine grape, scuppernongs in particular. No fruit on eath I've ever had comes close in flavor. I hope you have an opportunity to try one purple or yellow when ripe.

[@ricknelsteel]

It always surprises me how well burgundy ages, even from producers that don’t have a big reputation. I’ve even had great burgundy from English and Irish companies that have sourced the wine and sometimes even bottled it in their home country.

[@GlenLossie]

I too have begun to think that way for not only Burgundy but all good pinot noirs.

[@bernardfontaine9576]

I agree that drinking windows estimated are too short. A reason is that people today don't cellar their wines anymore and are in a mood of fast consuming. I also must admit that if I did not have the chance to drink well aged wines (Bordeaux of 30 years or more for instance), I would not have realized how beautiful a wine can be when aged. I always have a look at the drinking window of a wine I want to buy on an auction. By my experience, I think that the wines that RP himself rated are well estimated in terms of quality and drinking window.

[@jenspoertscheller4314]

Hey Konstantin, wie immer super Content:) was würdest du denn mal über ein Württemberg Special halten- besonders das Remstal? Wir schwimmen mittlerweile ja fast in Weingütern mit extrem guten Qualitäten....... keep up the good work🥳

[@keithphillips7320]

What do you do with all the wine from the bottles that you open in these videos? Do you and Leon get legless every Sunday evening?

[@oldsambo]

Store wines correctly and they will probably age well. I had a 2006 Australian Riesling on Saturday. It was recommended for cellaring for 6 to 8 years at 18 years old it was great

[@GlenLossie]

Australian Rieslings age very well, but keep in mind that Australia is a warm country and not all houses have basements. Hence producers are loathe to suggest long drinking windows since heat is a killer.

[@baggrabb]

I track drinking windows, but my storage is good…but not great. I don’t store many wines longer than five years. But essentially I group the numeric dates to long (5 to 8 years or so), not so long (3 to 5 years) or short (drink in the next 2 years). More than half the wines I buy are short, about one quarter are long. I don’t intend to hold to 2035, or 2060. Interesting video. I liked the point that bottles of the same cuvée can vary…rings true

[@miguelmunoz1286]

in 2016 i tasted a 1980 conde de Valdemar. It was ok but clearly it's peak, had alredy passed. And it was a crianza too

[@GlenLossie]

Actually, for a crianza, which literally is a producer's 3rd tier wine after Gran Reserva and Reserva, that was 26 years old, it was to be expected.

[@miguelmunoz1286]

@@GlenLossie thank you i didn't know it

[@scorah73]

great video; maybe do one where you try some wines before the critics' window has opened? I generally think that is worth paying attention to; the end date is much more subjective and also subjective to things like how well you've stored the wine and bottle variation

[@crrizello5157]

Thanks for the video. I purchase wine mainly to consume in a shorter window and only have a handful of bottles that I am setting aside. It is helpful to see how these wines aged. I'm curious that you had several bottles past the stated drinking window. Did you keep these around because you thought they might have longer aging potential?

[@GlenLossie]

My advice, if you want shorter drinking windows, buy modest wines from good producers as they will mature faster - as in a shorter drinking window.

[@tekaldas]

I would love to see a video where you do a more extreme test of drinking windows by over a decade after they supposedly closed. I do think there’s a lot of underestimating of wine’s aging potential and I’m often pleasantly surprised when I give older wines I find a try. But, like you, I always like aged wines more than the average consumer.

[@MrJbf71]

My experience over the years is the same as yours. I have had far more wines that was consumed too young, than the opposite. It is actually very rare that that i experience wine that has "gone over". Even though my cellar is not at low temperature (between 16-20 degrees celsius). A much bigger challenge is wine that goes in to hibernation. I can recommend using a coravin to be more certain about the best drinking window.

[@inyobill]

A bit off topic, but not widely. I visited a winery in central California. I told them I was shopping for wine thst I could hold for a while. The answer was their one-year-old wine was ready to drink then. I pushed a bit more, but their stoty didn't cjsnge. I took that to mean that they were not optimistic sbout their wines' ageability. I left without buying.

[@henriquelyramaia]

It would be very interesting to see you drink Barolos and Barbarescos from notable vintages such as 1958, 61, 64, 71, 78 etc... These wines are so ageworthy and so espetacular

[@akeappelgren5652]

My problem is that I don’t find the right opportunity to open the bottle… and when I store them I give each bottle a drinking window, knowing that I probably will be dead when the window opens (and my children don’t touch that stuff. Before they are over the hill and retired every bottle can be enjoyed without any Parker window. They will, probably, behave different being young, on peak or going back. excellent video Konstantin.

[@Vexation4632]

Drink them before you reach your 'expiration' date!

[@bob7478]

Now that I'm 67 years old, I am more focused on my ageability. Just enjoy your wine.

[@welshtoro3256]

A very good point and I touch on that in my comment. Please have a look.

[@zpacemuffin]

I had that Marguax 1998 last night and it was great. Powerful nose and very bordeaux.

[@GlenLossie]

"Very Bordeaux". I should hope so!

[@Skillividden]

I often thought that Robert Parker preferred to play it safe while defining drinking windows.

[@GlenLossie]

Robert Parker Jr, as in the critic not the wine journal, said in his seminal work on Bordeaux, that he prefers his wine on the younger side. He advised those who prefered their wines on the older side to think of starting to drink Bordeaux from the end of his drinking window. I repeat, to start drinking at the end of his drinking window. I have always followed that advice for all windows.

[@georgelabeta6821]

tertre 2000 is delicious! overall wines are almost always underrated and drank too young. and now invite some friends and enjoy them all :)

[@vandutton]

You may have done this, but I don't recall. MYBE SO video on how to make a home wine cellar, or the best of the various ways to store wine, based on expense. Everything from a wood rack in a dark room to renting storage in a high end facility (somewhat common in the US).

[@diegogodinhorocha9448]

This is great content, and something that's really confusing to me. First of all, I almost jumped in front of you opening Balasto. This is Garzón's premier wine, and their Reserva Tannat ages well enough while it's 10% the price of Balasto. This wine is in the same price range as Don Melchor, Château Kirwan, Il Pogione's Brunello Riserva, the 100 points Gran Enemigo...you get the idea... I can't understand for the life of me why those wineries don't get into these details in their websites, or in the label. Not only talking about the drinking window - and they could tell us what to expect from their wines from release to 5 years, then from 5 to 10 years, in order not to scare consummers who want to drink the wine as soon as they buy it - but giving informations about how to properly consume their wines. I'll give you an example: last year I opened up a bottle of Galantas, which is Haras de Pirque's Cabernet Franc. At first smell, it was really weird, disjointed and kind of repelling. As I was patient and waited for about 2 hours, it developed into one of the most interesting and delicious cab francs I've ever had. I can't understand why Haras de Pirque wouldn't want to give this information to consummers. Hadn't I been patient, I would never ever buy this wine again. Thank you for the great content!

[@GlenLossie]

Hmm, expensive, intense, structured wines, meant to go decades, on the shelf for collectors and people who want to go big in their wine drinking. The back label tells the consumer to start drinking in 30 years. What could go wrong with that strategy I wonder.

[@diegogodinhorocha9448]

@@GlenLossie Well, you could tell people to mix the wine with feces and inject it in the eye, and 99% of consumers wouldn't notice, because nobody reads the back label...for those of us who actually read it, there could be useful information, or a link that you could access in the winery's website or whatever. And they could pass the information in a way that wouldn't scary possible buyers away. Like, I've never seen wine descriptions in the back label saying "this is a shallow wine with artificial oak flavours", right? They go "this has cassis, vanilla and has a delicious aftertaste".

[@krk9432]

Seems like most of the drinking windows described by the experts were understated from your perspective Konstantin, could one possible motivation for this also be that the sooner a wine "ages out" the more likely a consumer is to drink it based on the drinking window given and then go buy another bottle of wine? The shorter the drinking window the sooner someone will drink it and possibly replace it.

[@aginsfbayarea7350]

I've never felt Rioja should be drunk young and always age them for at least a decade and usually quite a bit longer. In fact, I tend to drink older than most, especially with reds. I do have a question ... what is the temperature in your cellar? Cheers!

[@AnarchoKapital]

I get the feeling that drinking windows are systematically underestimated, even for "cheaper" wines in the 15-30 EUR/USD range. Lately I have opend some 8-10 year old bottles only to find that while some might show visible aging, none showed noticeable aging on the palate. Not sure what I should make of this.

[@GlenLossie]

Always push the envelope, well made wines last longer than expected.

[@nowaygardenhose]

You can age any Rioja forever. You can age any Spanish Carignan until after the end of the universe.

[@welshtoro3256]

Yes, that's exactly what I said in my comment. Take a look.

[@GlenLossie]

A qualifier is needed, any Rioja Gran Reserva, and maybe a Rioja Reserva from a good producer.

[@billybob7088]

Not Drinking wines before the window opens is the most important. "This 2020 Lafite is terrible"

[@CoreyMurphy-t1x]

"While wine does not go bad like fish for example..." hehehe oh my that cracked me up.

[@jorgenvandeburgt8670]

Mono audio nice, much better :)

[@KonstantinBaumMasterofWine]

Thanks!

[@dangareau3143]

A very interesting topic and as an early collector one of the most frustrating. With your average wine i don’t think it’s much of an issue but when it comes to opening up something on the high end side it’s all over the place when it comes to the critics. I now just throw caution to the wind and open what I feel like. Question though: Giuseppe Quintarelli 2011. Too young? Great video as always. Cheers!!

[@GlenLossie]

Quintarelli what, Valpollicella, Ripasso, Amarone, or one of his super premium bottles? Wait, what am I saying. they are all premium within their categories. Without knowing I still say too young, but then again I do like aged wines.

[@dangareau3143]

It was an amarone and indeed it might have been on the young side but we opened it and it was phenomenal!! No regrets whatsoever

[@bradbellomo6896]

For all the problems with critic's drinking windows, the only alternative is guestimating my own. Very few people can afford to drink really good wine aged 20+ years every day, so the rest of us can't buy, age and drink enough wine to really learn how this works.

[@SirWussiePants]

I bought a truly wonderful Finger Lakes 2022 Cab Franc from Boundary Breaks that is screaming to be aged. I bought several bottles and put notes on them to try in 2029, 2034 and 2040. Now, if I can keep my grubby fingers off of them that long I am sure I will be duly rewarded. I have many Rieslings that I plan to age as well. I am not a patient person though. Hopefully my library is large enough now to always give me something to try without dipping into the ones I am most excited for.

[@billybob7088]

When I worked at Bern's we had many Rieslings that were well over 25-30 years old and most were good to very good. Many aged very well if stored properly.

[@KonstantinBaumMasterofWine]

I need to visit that place!

[@billybob7088]

@@KonstantinBaumMasterofWine most of all the great bottles were consumed back 2000 to 2015. Not many gem left, but still cool to see. I recently went to Graycliff in the Bahamas, that was something else.

[@glennjohnson4919]

Sigh, to have a cellar. Live on the coast on a sandbar, water level maybe a foot down. No cellar. Limited to a wine fridge, and two additional years is about the most I typically age. Buy aged! Good thing I like young wines.

[@AShiga]

About the Garzon bottle: new world producers making old-style Barolo 😂😂😂 I generally try to avoid having medium and full body reds under 10yo... unless it's Nebbiolo, Sangiovese or Portugal's Dão. I bought 3 cases of 2005 Saletta (super tuscan blend) last year after trying a first case. The wine is at its peak and probably will hold for at least 5 years. FWIW: 20-year Super tuscan vs 20-year Claret, I'm Tuscany at any circumstance. I'm absolutely not saying Bordeaux this age is bad. Tuscany is just better *from my experience and to my tate*. It keeps the fresh fruit better. On another note, I had a 2003 and a 2017 Eclipse Noon (Aussie): If you drank the 2017 now, you'd rather empty the bottle down the sink. The 2003 is pure perfection, therefore it begs for time.

[@georgek.1498]

Would you expect to buy the out of age wines at a discount? Would a SOM ever recommend an older wine at a restaurant? Or discount something in a cellar.

[@GlenLossie]

No I wouldn't, but I would hope that the older bottle would be favourably priced because it would have been bought quite some time ago when the wholesale price was lower. There are many anecdotal stories about finding well priced older wines on restaurant wine lists.

[@xLauli]

Very nice video and I can basically agree with everything, except for the fact, that for "cheap" bottles where no nice flavours come out the drinking window is also large. A bad wine will not get better through ageing, sure it might not turn into vinegar straight away, but if there is no new pleasant or interesting flavours coming through I don"t see the point in ageing and waiting for nothingness. That said, most wines are still consumed too young and it is really hard to estimate those windows.

[@Nova234432]

Is there a good chart or graph that you'd recommend that gives fair on broader drinking window like you suggested?

[@andrewyarosh1809]

The idea that these critics are tasting wines when they are in barrel or on release and pontificating a “drinking window” is absurd. If they weren’t in the pockets of the producers, negociants, distributors and publications that want immediate revenue, they would taste 5 years after release and then opine on a drinking window. It seems like today’s world of wine advisers is so focused on immediate revenue and turnover that they discourage drinkers from allowing a wine to evolve and to enjoy it when it is mature. Thanks for this wonderful reminder. And BTW, I’ve been watching this while sipping on a 2000 from Chateau L’Isle Margaux. It is WONDERFUL!

[@alexlarsen6413]

While it seems logical to err on a side of caution when you're recommending this to such a wide audience, the drinking windows on some of these wines have really surprised me - both in terms of how conservative they were and how narrow they were. And I say that as someone who prefers younger wines. I mean let's be honest, most of those really age worthy wines, are usually amazing a few years after release already. Besides the wines I can afford, I always buy enough to follow their development throughout their lifetime. And the wines that can age for 40 + years, I can't afford anyhow...so ,🤷

[@vrudik13]

Six months ago, my friends and I opened and drank a bottle of 1947 Cheval Blanc. The level was down to low shoulder and most people expected it to be vinegar. Nope! It was exquisite. It does have a bit of a Port taste to it. The only person there who had tried it before said that it was even better than 40 years ago. I have found that drinking windows are WAY off. Most good wines last much longer than the windows.

[@michaelpuhaindran4127]

Have always looked at the drinking window more from when I can start drinking a wine rather than being overly concerned with the end date. With good storage most decent wines are probably going to last awhile.

[@Lebowski55]

I'm curious how these wines have been aged. If they were all in your temperature controlled cellar, then that would certainly help them.

[@masseredjian]

does tasting date matters ? anyway they should more precise on that

[@pegoossens]

that's why you drink from a glass... it's so unpractical to use a window. 🙂

[@davidbatten5808]

What about the advent of screw cap wines - esp reds? Recently served blind to a group a Central Otago (NZ) Pinot Noir 2006 (SC) vs a respectable negociant Sauvignon Les Narbantons 2009 (C). The ‘06 was in beautiful condition with zero bottle variation where as the Burgundy was just still within a ‘good’ drinking range with significant bottle variation. Both wines cellared in the same cool temp cellar. Me thinks screw caps rule and am finding the drinking window of them can be considerably extended! db

[@GlenLossie]

Maybe if I was younger I might want a screw capped wine because it extends the longevity of the wine. However, in the main, I choose the wine and not the seal, and trust good producers to choose the seal they want. I won't not buy a wine because of the seal.

[@FreonUWP]

I would love to hear your opinions on Corvin!

[@KonstantinBaumMasterofWine]

Coravin? I use it a lot and I made a few videos about it.

[@slimboyde]

2013 is a difficult year for southern Rhone. Maybe the same 2015 Gigondas will have many good years ahead. At least it was a good example of a wine coming to it's end. 😉

[@ericthompson3255]

I would imagine the problem with drinking windows is they're made of glass. Hardly a liquid, and quite frankly, one of the last solids I would ever want to try drinking.

[@samwilson7550]

Very surprised at the Valdemar

[@tommihommi1]

how closely will two people agree on whether a wine is peaking, too old, or too fresh? Surely part of it is personal preference in regards to tolerance for certain flavors and what they consider "balanced"

[@jamesboddington9565]

There's no such thing as a great old wine only a great old bottle as the saying goes for wines beyond a certain age. I had a 1953 McLaren Vale Shiraz about 10 years ago that was fresh as a daisy still showing some primary fruit. McLaren typically being low acid soft wines (as this was) are not what's normally considered age worthy but this 60-ish year old bottle defied everything it should have been. If I'd reviewed it in 1954 I probably would have said drink up!

[@GlenLossie]

You can't leave me dangling by saying 1953 MV Shiraz, I need to know, what was the wine?

[@jamesboddington9565]

@@GlenLossie We think it was a Rhinecastle. My friend purchased it super cheap at auction about 10 years before opening

[@Spiritchaser93]

Rather drink them young then when they're tired. I mean, people who drink old wines want less of the bad things (tannins, concentration) and more of the good things (smoothness, autumnal flavors like mushroom n leather). I can understand the former but not the latter - tertiary notes don't excite me. I rather have a wine that wears its character on its sleeve... like colorful youth whose supposedly "flaws" are exactly what makes them interesting.

[@GlenLossie]

Tannins and concentration are neither bad nor flaws. Wine Spectator magazine once did a story about when to drink high profile wines and asked the owner/winemaker about their windows. The all suggested a narrow early drinking window when one could enjoy the benefits of the fruit and then recommended the wines slumber for a number of years as the fruit fades and the tannin dominates. Then, after any number of years, depending on the producer and their wines, one could once again start opening up the wines as the tannins receded and allowed the mature fruit to show itself. It is as if the fruit "re-appears".