Melbourne's Strangest Train Line

[@QazzyTransport]

Correction: Stony Point trains are driven by specifically trained metro drivers

[@surferdude78]

Another option that you didn't mention is using "battery electric trains". When I lived in rural Japan they updated a two carriage diesel with a battery train. No need to electrify the line and much cheaper to run. And for the local community it's a huge win. Much quieter and cleaner.

[@Theyadayada]

I used to catch a refurbished red rattler from Bittern to Frankston every weekend, meeting up with friends at Hastings and Somerville. Those old things had the comfiest seats and a conductor known as ''Whistlin' Pete'' because of how well he whistled. This was 2006-2009, never knew how much I'd miss it.

[@aidanthomas2510]

That would have been a refurbished Harris, what are now known as the H sets (which are actually now pretty much all gone). By that point the Red Rattlers were long out of service and none were ever refurbished for un-electrified use.

[@zeealo]

Pete! Oh my goodness what a good guy. I lived in Bittern 2009-2012 and he was usually the conductor on the vline service. Always stopped to have a chat, and I still remember his whistling. Thanks for bringing back the memories, mate. 😊

[@Theyadayada]

@@zeealo haha I probably know you or who you are then! Bittern/Hastings area is a very small world lol

[@michaelwilliams476]

The Stony Point line is manned by a metro driver , NOT vline

[@deleted.6743]

It’s a Harris (blue) not a Tait (red)

[@jdillon8360]

I'll add my 2 cents as well. It really isn't worth electrifying this line. But I do think they should add a passing loop and add some more trains so that frequency can be higher. Usage is low because frequency is low. Mornington branch should be reopened as well. Then it would be worth adding 2-car Vlocity sets to the mix and a small "light-mantainence" facility for minor repairs and servicing. Major repairs would continue to be done in the city of course. Maybe the line could be extended to portsea as well. If you include the entire Mornington penninsula there is a actually a pretty big population (plus significant tourism), and there isn't much room for road expansion (which just creates more congestion anyway). Time to get Penninsula residents and visiting back onto public transport. If the service is good enough, people will use it.

[@BrillOBuffalo]

The 'light maintenance' facility could be at Kananook, which is being built right now. It'll eventually be the permanent stabling for the Stony Point trains too. Otherwise Southern Cross, since all the other diesel passenger trains are based out of there.

[@petesig93]

Kennett (the Karrnt) 'jeffed' the Mornington line in the mid-90s. Patronage was deemed too low to support it. It was very lucky the Stony Point line did not go the same way but I reckon the commercial and PT implications for the Cowes and French Island ferry service were the key reasons for it remaining. Kennett HATED PT with a vengeance. He tried to sell it all off to private companies. A much better action of course, looking with hindsight would have been to incorporate both lines into the Metro system with faster and more frequent service.

[@dunxy]

@@petesig93 Wow, the 90's?I thought Mornington was shut in the late 70's/early 80's. I remember helping with a bit of work on the MRPS rollingstock in the 90's (they were in the naval base still at that stage) and i thought the line had been long closed by that time. 100% it should be re-opened, no doubt it would get great patronage, just another on the list that should never have been closed...

[@bonza167]

@@petesig93 the line remained open in order to send slabs of steel and raw material to BHP Steel at Hastings, now BlueScope so it was easy to maintain a passenger service as the infrastructure was there. a passing loop already exists at Somerville as not unusual to see the steel train parked there and increased train time table is possible. and Kennet, you can blame all that on Kirner and Jolly who couldnt even balance a kinder garten budget

[@KizzaMcc]

Can you please apply to be the transport Minister 😊

[@T412M]

Couple of minor corrections: •Sprinters are able to run in 8 car sets (authorised to, has happened a few times); •Stony Point services use Metro drivers based at Frankston; V/line has no involvement beyond maintaining the Sprinters, and providing 2 cars each time a changeover occurs.

[@purplexs2506]

My teenage exploration of Melbourne was partly driven by catching trains to many of the Port Philip Bay suburban piers and jetties, from Altona in the North West as far as Table Point, Black Rock on the East side. Stony Point beckoned on the map, as a mystical, far-away land, where I would be sure to catch lots of fish, if I were ever to journey ... all ... that ... way. And well done on an excellent little vid.

[@RobMcGinley81]

Its a life line for the recruits and trainee's at HMAS Cerberus to get off base and into town, even if the schedule sux. There wasn't any other option twenty years ago when i was there and I doubt that has changed.

[@terryhesticles311]

Was the same 50 years ago when I was there. Used Walker rail cars into HMAS Cerberus near the front gate platform.

[@josephradley3160]

Good memories of having a beer in Frankston while waiting for the two-hourly trian home. "Whoops, missed the 1PM, I'll have to take the 3PM." Rinse and repeat until "If I don't go now I'll miss the 7PM and it's either a long walk or an expensive taxi ride."

[@SimonLevoune]

Agreed mate, i used that train as a recruit and later a sailor.

[@badenpobjoy8274]

Rob 100% correct "imo" cheers ~baden~

[@roscozone8092]

…and for French Island residents & visitors…

[@eliyohub]

Note, Vlocity trains can be reduced from three carriages to two very easily. Some of them were initially two-carriage sets, but all were later modified into the current three-carriage sets.

[@TeamEXAngus]

I'm not sure it would be worth modifying V-locity sets just to serve the stony point line

[@MatthewBoldist1]

@@TeamEXAngus I don't think it'd take much tho to de-couple the centre carriage (and there's stabling around Frankston where it can tuck away during use) I believe the current sprinters are rotated on a weekly basis, so these movements would only occur once to twice a week (tho the vlos are more reliable, could maybe get away with a fortnightly rotation)

[@snowyalice]

They absolutely do already. The train from Traralgon to Sale yesterday afternoon was only two carriages.

[@74_pelicans]

@@snowyalice which service? They are always 3 or 6 when I get it daily.

[@qjtvaddict]

Ridership got too damn high

[@WendyKay84]

I lived in Crib Point and relied quite heavily on the Stony Point line for a time. It was always a nice ride, with Whistling Pete watching over his flock of passengers. It closed for several months because I think they were working on the line (there were rumours it would be electrified then, but it obviously wasn't) and I missed it terribly. I had to take the bus, which I believe was even less frequent and a lot less comfortable. The Stony Point line was a blessing!

[@brack1936]

Don't take these lines for granted! Unfortunately WA Governments of the past have completely lost WA railways of the past and I so wish they were still around. I can't wait to get back over east to use lines like this.

[@davidmc105]

Good job! A minor point - the Steelworks is not actually called Long Island, it's called Western Port steelworks (I used to work for BHP, Bluescope was BHP Steel). It's only called Long Island in railway circles, it's actually the name of the branch line rather than the steelworks. The Long Island branch line used to run from Long Island Junction on the Stony Point line, beyond the steelworks to the Esso works at Long Island (though there isn't an island there anymore).

[@user-Kevlar]

This service also used to service the Naval base HMAS Cerberus (also known as Flinders Naval Depot in the past). The Friday afternoon ‘leave’ train was well patronised. Train would run from the on base station to Crib Point where it rejoined the line and reverse direction for the trip to Frankston. There was also a Sunday afternoon train from Frankston to the base. The base platform is still there but never had any buildings.

[@Gozza71]

If you know where the Cerberus spur left the Stonypoint line you can follow it over a old timber Tressel bridge into Cerberus. used to do this all the time when I was a kid living in Cribby.

[@darylcheshire1618]

I noted the Monday morning train to Cerberus, the timetable said “For Naval Personnel Only”

[@PJRayment]

The Friday train ran empty to Crib Point, backed from there to the navy base, then ran via the third leg of the triangle back to the city. The Sunday service did the opposite, running straight into the navy base, then back around to Crib Point, and ran empty from there back to the city. At least that's how it was scheduled to run. Whether they sometimes did things differently locally may be another matter.

[@darylcheshire1618]

HMAS Cerberus would have an open day in October every year, on the day I attended, there was a B class shunting in the siding. Half way along the fork there was a lever frame under a corrugated iron shelter. I went on a special which was the Mornington DERM to the navy siding, the driver said they turned a 280 (Walker) once and got a phone call from the commanding officer about it. They were supposed to notify the base if there were going to be train movements. Presumably we had permission for the DERM trip. That day we saw a couple of ratings weeding the platform, I was told it was probably a punishment detail. We stayed on the DERM as it changed direction. The driver had a ticket wrapped around a short wooden pole. That was the ticket portion of the staff and ticket system. The 6” wooden pole or broom handle acted like a train staff.

[@PJRayment]

@@darylcheshire1618 Was that DERM special the Rail Tourist Association trip? I was on that too. Having gone around the triangle, when the DERM returned to Mornington, the fueling point was on the wrong side, so they turned it on the turntable there.

[@robvegas9354]

Great video mate!!! Back in the late 90's a friend and I went for a mission to catch the stony point line for an adventure one saturday just for something to do. the train itself was one of the big diesel engines with one carriage The view of western port bay was nice, we were there for about 3 hours waiting for the next train back. Good times.

[@jaredmulconry]

Good old Stony Point line. I grew up with this line in the 90s and early 00s. Back then, Hastings still had a staffed station that sold tickets, and the carriage doors were manually operated, so spent most of the journey wide open for us to hang out legs off the side. The frequency was half of the issue with the service, the other half being the operating hours. Services began criminally late in the morning, and terminated even more criminally early in the evening. As someone attempting to study in Melbourne, services didn't start early enough for me to get to class on time, and terminated with minutes to spare for me to return home. I would describe the service as popular in spite of its issues. I don't see justification to invest a lot of money in the line, given the low patronage. I don't see the popularity of the line changing either.

[@tekkies-transport]

Great video! The Stony Point line certainly is an interesting part of the network, and definetly could do with some improvements. I know the current state opposition at the last two state elections have promised to extend the Frankston line to Baxter if elected, which I think is a bit unnecessary given the size of the town. (Fun fact: The Stony Point line is known to be taken out of action whenever there are planned disruptions on the Frankston line. I assume this is because the Sprinters get regularly sent up the Frankston line to Southern Cross for refuelling and rotation.)

[@zoomosis]

Right, there's no maintenance depot for the Sprinters in Frankston. Conceivably there could be one built at the Kananook Stabling Yard, but I imagine that would be hard to justify economically.

[@mlb1776]

They get refuelled every morning at Frankston, they are changed over twice a week at southern cross.

[@antontsau]

vlocity trains can be 2 cars. In fact its their original design, middle trailer was added afterwards.

[@joe64a9]

When my kids were 11 and 9 years old we rode our bikes to Edithvale station, train to Frankston, train to Stoney Point and ferry to Phillip Island. After 2 days of cycling we came back the same way. There was a tent on my bike but ended up getting a cabin in both caravan parks for about $20 more than the tent site. My missus still thinks I'm a bit crazy. Loved it all.

[@the.bronze]

Back in the 90’s I hitchhiked down to Frankston, took the train to stony point. Quick call to the ferry, and pickup up 30 minutes later by the ferry and off to Phillip island.

[@originaluddite]

That line took me to a few of my best holidays ever. Crappy line but great nostalgia.

[@thepiratequeen89]

Thanks for this video! I've never travelled the Stony Point line before, but now I actually want to experience it! I might make a day of it where I can go by myself and just relax and enjoy it.

[@zoomosis]

I suspect there was once a usable passing loop at Somerville, but evidently increasing frequency on the line isn't a priority. The biggest issue with the Stony Point line is that the combined population of all the towns with railway stations along the line (not counting Leawarra) is only around 35,000. Meanwhile the combined population of Mornington, Mt Martha, Safety Beach, Dromana and Rosebud on the other side of the peninsula (without a rail line) is more than double that at around 73,000. There are regular calls for the line to be electrified to Baxter despite it having a population of only around 2,000. The overhead could be extended to Somerville or even Hastings, but not much thought has been given to what will happen to the remaining non-electrified part of the line. The longer the electrified section, the more uneconomic it is to run a diesel service on the unelectrified section. But electrifying the entire line is also completely unrealistic. In the future it might be technically feasible to operate battery-powered trains to replace the old Sprinters but it's hard to imagine the state government ordering a fleet brand-new high-tech replacements just to service ~25 km of track. It would surely be cheaper just to extend the platforms for the V/Locitys to run to Stony Point. Though this also means the V/Locities would need to run between Frankston and Southern Cross (which they don't do currently) for maintenance, since there's no diesel maintenance depot in Frankston.

[@MichaelTavares]

Extended platforms AND passing loops

[@ronronchau]

another challenge of this line is the distance is way too far away from city which makes the commuting not feasible enough to change most of the commuters' mind, even you make the services much frequent doesn't mean it make commuter worth using it (except some people who aren't eligible to drive or the navys in the HMAS Cerberus base who needs it) it should work either as a shuttle for Frankston super-express, or change itself into a whyndam vale/melton-like zone 2 v/line, in order to pass through most of the minor stations, even with a mornington line re-opening option possibilities if the population growth through South is faster than usual. For battery train, unless metro/vline like to use their sprinters to modify and make some experiments(including battery driven, fuel cell or even gas turbine hybrid), a new rolling stock would never be feasible for usual operation with expected low patronage projection

[@somerandomdude1552]

Crib point, bitten, Hastings, Tyabb, Somerville and Baxter all had crossing loops/yards once upon a time. All went when goods traffic went. Aside from the obvious political pork barreling reasons, (hint marginal electorate and very safe LNP seat), the only reason an extension to Baxter has been given any credence is because there’s a whole lot of land set aside for a maintenance facility. Think like Pakenham, westall or Epping. That’s now off the cards thanks to the new stabling at kananook, making an extension largely redundant.

[@zoomosis]

@@somerandomdude1552 Yes, the stabling yard at Kananook was in the local news recently due to more construction works. It was reported when it's complete it will hold 21 trains, which made me wonder why stabling at Baxter was necessary.

[@tonydarcy7475]

Switching trains is also a big part of the problem as I assume the timetables aren't aligned very well. I think it could get a decent number of passengers if the towns were grown (i.e. land rezoning to encourage urban sprawl around the towns) and the trains were two carriage VLocities (this was their original configuration, so it should be as simple as removing the middle carriage) that went through to the CBD rather than making passengers change trains at Frankston. Of course this is a lot easier said than done and it would take at least a decade of good government planning, which I don't think would be overly likely to happen in the near future.

[@Melbournelost66]

I love this beautiful line. Take on a beautiful Summers day, drop into the Packing House at Tyabb, then a walk around Stony Point. A fun day.

[@andrew_mcintosh]

Absolutely!

[@electro_sykes]

i am still surprised that this service wasn't just scrapped during Kennetts era and is now just flying under the radar.

[@mihali9655]

Wasn’t it going to be scrapped under Cain, when Port Melbourne and St Kilda were axed?

[@nickk6286]

@@mihali9655 There is a reason for Port Melbourne and St Kilda was axed - it was too short - only few stations . It cost more to run that way compared the longer stations. They were converted to tram service - it made it easier then!. Lucky I was able to ride on the trains before they discontinued the St Kilda and Port Melbourne lines.

[@Whatevs8485]

As best I recall, Kennett wanted to scrap it and replace with buses. A group of disabled people took out a court order, and the line was kept open ** Disclaimer ** I have no factual evidence just a story that was a common theme “back in the day”

[@electro_sykes]

@@nickk6286 the trams now are just too convenient.

[@enochliu8316]

​@@mihali9655It got reopened under Cain actually. The line from Stoney Point to Long Island was closed from 1981 to 1984.

[@RS-rj5sh]

The Mornington line used to branch off this line and operated for over 100 years until the early eighties. The train went right into the Mornington shopping area.

[@Wiimeiser]

It should be brought back there. Even if it's just a tourist railway like it currently is.

[@bradleamon4466]

And it still should considering how much tax we pay

[@johnmc703]

I travelled on the DERM to Mornington in late 1979 to stay with friends of the family

[@mjcats2011]

@@Wiimeiser It wont be because it will interfere with the Tourist Railway operations which uses a run around track for its locos.

[@NoName-ds5uq]

Training at HMAS Cerberus in the late 80s I caught this train to and from Frankston many times. The frequency was quite painful, I must say.

[@brucewoods9377]

It probably doesn’t exist anymore, but there was a branch line into HMAS Cerberus. It ran Friday afternoons (1 service) to Melbourne and returned the following Monday early AM back to HMAS Cerberus

[@celeriumlerium8266]

I confirm if you walk around Crib Point (not moradoo) station in between Crib Point and Stony Point there are still remnants of the old cerberus line hidden in the grass.

[@celeriumlerium8266]

Further: The original line turned off and on to the base between Mooradoo and Crib Point just after the gate and lights. But the station had a second and third set of rails coming off from the main line, used for parking while they waited for the main line to be free. On the other side of the station now there are spare sleepers and old rails here and there in the grass close to the fence, more east buried in mud. Also east there are some concrete bases that were used to hold up lights and signs, probably very hard to find now. There isn't anything physically left from the line itself, but its original path into the base is clearly visible on stuff like Google Earth (a "V" shape in the forest behind Grant Way, 1 going north 1 going southeast), and even still mapped as a train line in some places. You cannot walk the original path, it is inside of the navy base (theres a fence with fine notices) and often patrolled by navy dudes, but I can assure you its nothing but a muddy swampland in there, and the only things you'll find are lost boots.

[@Gozza71]

@@celeriumlerium8266 it's funny its called Mooradoo now, when I was going up in Cribby it was stop 15.

[@PJRayment]

I'm pretty sure that the return was on Sunday evening.

[@PJRayment]

@@celeriumlerium8266 "The original line turned off and on to the base between Mooradoo and Crib Point just after the gate and lights." It was actually a (railway) triangle, formed by the main line to Crip Point, a line from Crib Point to the navy base, and a line from the navy base to a junction with the main line back towards what is now Morradoo.

[@mattmace10]

Cool video! There is an upgrade going on for stony point line, mainly comms but who knows what else it entails

[@fauzirahman3285]

I spoke to a driver once when I was at Stony Point before we were due to leave and he mentioned he worked for Metro, but is able to drive both the Sprinter and a number of the Metro stock.

[@GlennSyndallius]

Thanks for the vid mate! Very interesting to hear the issues on the Stony Point line. I think one of the major problems is that population isn't growing on the Peninsula. If towns like Tyabb and Hastings end up becoming major growth centres, then it's probably justified to duplicate the line and improve the platforms, but yeah, who knows if that'll happen. I think the other reason why the line exists is to service the HMAS Cerberus military (or maritime?) base down there.

[@LxAU]

This line is actually driven by Metro drivers-in fact, if you look very carefully at 3:55, you’ll spot the Metro logo on the hi-vis!

[@QazzyTransport]

pretty sure the drivers are from v/line but in metro uniform

[@LxAU]

V/Line drivers definitely aren’t given a Metro uniform.

[@StevenSmith0306]

Drivers are Frankston based Metro drivers.

[@loganmeridius5104]

I think you will find drivers actually are capable (and do) work across both companies. Metro drivers are not trained on the sprinters but a handfull would be to run this service and all v/line drivers are trained to drive it so i’m sure they do something operate this line but would always do it in a metro uniform

[@LxAU]

​@@loganmeridius5104 There’s a bit too much speculation going on in this comments section about this. I work for the department responsible for these operations, and I can assure you that you will NEVER see an on-duty V/Line employee wearing a Metro uniform. It absolutely will not happen. Stony Point services are driven exclusively by Metro employees-no exceptions.

[@samspadeau]

The Stony Point line should include the Mornington rail corridor, which should be re-opened. The population of Mornington is large enough to support the line's operation. Additionally, why not consider using solar powered/wind powered/carbon neutral trains if the line is not electrified. Byron Bay created a solar powered train which proves it can be done. Solar and wind is sufficient on the peninsula to power the trains

[@alexlough2615]

Somerville has two old tracks .So it’s not entirely single track . Thank you for your video I enjoyed it .

[@Bill-R258]

Both loop tracks are now booked out of service. Hastings loop track also booked out of service.

[@WhiskeyFiend]

Fun fact in the 1920s they actually projected Bittern/Hastings to grow into the 2nd largest city in Victoria, due to Australia's Naval Training Facility HMAS Cerberus being located a short walk from Crib Point Service and the assumed developmentof the existing port in Hastings.

[@YourLexicalities]

The fact The Stony Point line still runs is really an enigma & i remember my aunty saying i could catch the train to get to her place and then i saw the stop was on the SP line and told her not a chance.

[@Noosa21]

I used to live at Frankston a long time ago but still have relatives and friends there, I had never been on the Stony Point Line as yet, however one day I'll give it a go. Thanks for posting this update.

[@michaelclement1337]

I recall Sydney trains that for platforms that are too short for the full train that they advised the passengers as to which carriages to be in for that particular stop. If they have to go to 3 carriage trains that principal could be applied to avoid extending some of the platforms

[@QazzyTransport]

vlocities do not have that capability

[@tonydarcy7475]

I think they do something similar at some stations on the Swan Hill line, but I've never been.

[@Mrmoo6000]

I REALY think u deserve to go viral some day you just don’t get enough views for all your effort

[@waverleyc.412]

Great video! Very informative for someone like me who has never heard of the stoney point line..I imagine as Melbourne's urban footprint expands, they will eventually electrify the suburban network to stoney point..

[@xr6lad]

Services will have to pick up. The suburbs are booming down there. Hastings, Langwarrin etc.

[@chris_versteegen_]

Amazing video mate! Keep up the great research and informative videos 👏👏👏

[@freeagent8225]

Love the trip to SP then the ferry to Phillip Is. Great day out😅. Free for seniors on w/e.

[@thies7831]

With a cap of A$ 3.60 for Concession holders, the Adventure Tour "Around Westernport Bay in a Single Day" will become the FOMO hype of the year. Although on Saturdays the trip has to run clockwise: (March 2024 onwards) Dandenong, V/Line bus 09.16am dep - arr 11.32am Cowes. Westernport Ferries, Cowes 02.45pm dep- (via French Island 03.10pm)-03.25pm arr. Stony Point. Hope for the kiosk to be open as "The Stoner" will depart at 04.28pm, arriving in Frankston at 05.04pm. The return trip to Dandenong Railway Station by Smartbus 901 can start as early as 05.20pm, getting there by 05.57. Those coming from the Melbourne CBD can venture back by the Frankston Line too. No guarantee for any of these published times. Please check with the ptv website for any updates. Otherwise, enjoy the trip and please be aware, that the ferry is dependent on rough weather too.

[@Shadowninjaedits]

Your content is 🤤🤤🤤so good i was watching u since your first video back in september or smth keep on uploading bro

[@adventuresbytrainwales9558]

I’d say, use the trains as 1 coach (increase the frequency to ensure you still keep capacity) Put passing loops to give a one every 30 minute frequency. Use the sprinter trains for as long as you can and hopefully on the back of the increased patronage from the new more usable frequency be able to electrify with new stock or extend the electrification and benefit more from the sparks effect, hopefully at that point duplicate towards the Junction for a Mornington branch as when I lived in Mornington I preyed they would have a train line, it’s a big town close to Melbourne to not have one! If you look at the UK in Cornwall they added a passing loop to the Maritime line, split the trains to be 1 car instead of 2 keeping the same capacity. They had to double the train lengths due to the enhanced frequency attracting so many passengers! The line is now flourishing, no electricity just yet but then again the UK is VERY slow to electrify!

[@Typingwithpaws]

When I was in Japan, in the city of Fukuoka, they have battery electric trains with a pantograph. That would be an interesting replacement option to the existing diesel service. Honestly im just glad they still have a service out that way. I don't live there but as melbourne expands to become more like LA, it might see more frequent use.

[@harveywilde6781]

The passing loop you mentioned is great start. They don't even need to add/upgrade the rolling stock either. Just breakaway into single carrige train and depart simultaneously from either end of the line every 45 minutes or so.

[@saremqadir]

There should build the Portsea line to connect box hill Frankston and all the station on the stony point line

[@thies7831]

Why stop at Portsea ? Get a tunnel under the Heads and link it to Geelong via Queenscliff for removing the ferry sector (Sorrento-Queenscliff) from the "Around Port Philip Bay in a Single Day" Adventure Tour. Tourism is DEMANDING this for real progress, putting Victoria back on the map and itineraries IN FRONT OF Queensland.

[@saremqadir]

@@thies7831 mayvbe or build a railbidge to werrbbie t

[@saremqadir]

@@thies7831 or there could build a rail bridge

[@ironsword7]

🤣

[@thies7831]

It is a very important sector in one of Melbourne's Adventure Tours, the infamous "Around Westernport Bay in a Single Day", running from Dandenong Railway Station via Frankston by bus line 901, Stony Point, Cowes (by Westernport Ferries) and back to Dandenong by V/Line bus. Don't get plagued by FOMO - just DO IT !!!

[@jasonh.8754]

Why is it called 'Western Port' Bay? It's east of Melbourne and Port Phillip Bay. I heard an explanation years ago but can't remember.

[@thies7831]

@@jasonh.8754 The area was first sighted and surveyed by Europeans in 1797, when George Bass was granted permission from Governor Hunter in Sydney to follow the coast south of Botany Bay. Due to the rough stretch of water, Bass could not get more than halfway through the passage between the mainland and the shore to the South , now recorded as Bass Strait. This voyage led to the registration of Western Port, so named because of its situation relative to every other known harbour on the coast at that time.

[@jasonh.8754]

@@thies7831 thank you.

[@thies7831]

@@jasonh.8754 You're welcome.

[@josephblansjaar5871]

A good report on the Stoney Point Motor Rail. The naval establishment HMAS CEREBUS at Crib Point is the Royal Australian Navy's premier naval training establishment and home to some 1000 servicemen. When I was posted there in the 1960's the only practical way of getting out to Frankston and Melbourne was either to buy a car or catch the train. I'm disappointed that there has not been more discussion between State and Federal authorities to consider that the Stoney Point might greatly benefit the service personnel at HMAS CEREBUS?

[@davidbernadine]

A very interesting video. Thanks. I'm a touring cyclist and I've taken my bicycle on several trips from Geelong - Southern Cross - Frankston - Stony Point and then taken the ferry to French Island (which I've found great for cycling). I'd hate to see this service go. I get regular updates from V/Line on train disruptions and there's more disruptions to the Frankston - Stony Point than you think (where trains are replaced by buses).

[@thehaikulibrarian]

That's right. Whenever the Frankston line is closed for building or maintenance, so too is the Stony Point line. I live besides the Stony Point line and it often has weekends without trains when there's major track work happening. I take it that the steel trains give the line a bit of a pounding.

[@Dream_M1]

Awesome video. Very informative. Thank you 👍

[@74_pelicans]

they use metro drivers not vline,they also use metro conductorsonly line to do so. I don't think duplication will happen, and if anything I think closing it will be the first option and replace it with a coach service

[@Haxmanzz]

Good video! Clarkefield is a 3 carriage station but regulary has velocity trains use it that exceed this. They use a train guard to make sure no one goes out the door without a platform.

[@AgentMulder1805]

I film this service and call the single carriage a Doodlebug after the old gas powered American units. It's really only there to service the French Islands Ferry service but still a familiar site to the locals. Thanks for this interesting video Qazzy. 👍

[@railtrolley]

There were Vic Rail versions of doodlebugs and they operated on this line: DERMs. Some have survived into preservation.

[@thies7831]

NOT just the ferry to French Island. That boat is even servicing Stony Point with Cowes which will enable intrepid venturers cruising "Around Westernport Bay in a Single Day", boosting the economy in the capital town of Philip Island significantly.

[@PJRayment]

I doubt that many of the passengers on the train use the ferry. That is, it serves a lot more than mainly the ferry.

[@robjaimiehickford4559]

There was a spur line just before Crib Point station that led into Flinders Naval Depo (HMAS Cerberus) which ran services for weekend leave but Im not sure when that ceased. It was not running when I was based there in 1983 and again in 1985.

[@MetroManMelbourne]

Nice video. It was cool to meet you in real life on that day as well!

[@QazzyTransport]

yeah that was crazy lol

[@greatvedas]

thanks for making a video on this destruction free Stoney Point line :)

[@deanstyles2567]

I just had a look at the station boardings for the 2022-23 year, and the boardings at all stations on the line except Frankston for the year were 57000. Obviously there's potentially double counting for trips which don't go to/from Frankston (if it's counting touch on and off or just touch on) and missed numbers due to fare evasion, but that's ~150 passenger boardings a day. Most individual stations on the Metro network and many V/Line stations have much more than that.

[@GeoffSmithwick]

Great video. My understanding is that the long term plan is to have it electrified to Baxter as a gateway terminus to the Peninsula. It would eliminate the need for the existing shortened diesel service while retaining the freight line to Long Island.

[@thies7831]

Which farm is breeding the animals for that political party's "Pigs will fly" promise tour ... ?At the very same time their Federal Leader is belching out such hot air, the Victorian State Leader is swinging the hammer on the Suburban Rail Loop project. Have I mentioned, that the rolling stock will be able to accelerate up to 160 km/h ?! It will certainly blow out a few windows along the line.

[@PiersDJackson]

When discussing "other suburban lines" that were dieselised.... Gembrook never was in Victorian Railways management, it was one of the four Narrow Gauge operations, and was operated entirely by the nA class "prairie" steam locomotives from Upper Ferntree Gully to Gembrook. The other three were Wangaratta to Whitfield; Colac to Beech Forest and Crowes; and Moe to Walhalla. Of note for Stony Point, for many years it was operated with an A class or P class locomotive hauling H-type carriages, all of a which are rebuilds/refurbishments of services from the 1950's. The A was a rebuilt B, and the P was rebuilt from a T, that is a country mainline or branchline locomotive respectively, the carriages being refurbishments of Harris suburban sets. These were only retired from Stony Point in the early 2010's (if memory serves) - it was also not uncommon to see the occasional service of an H, G or XR class on the Stony Point (in emergency).

[@PJRayment]

"Gembrook never was in Victorian Railways management, ..." Completely false. All those lines were built and operated by the Victorian Railways. And like the other lines mentioned, Gembrook was part of the suburban system as far as railway operations were concerned.

[@rlee8899]

Great video, I live in Balnarring and would love even a service every 40 minutes. Hope I live to see it updated 😅

[@harrisondart2751]

Another interesting thing about the Stony Point line is that not all of the original stations are still around, an example being Langwarrin station. It no longer exists, but there's still some evidence and remnants of the old platform where the substation remains, albeit covered in graffiti.

[@thies7831]

No stress. Some political party will dig up an overseas developer and just for another vote grabbing campaign present a stunning scale model on top of Langwarrin Station, showcasing a high density, high rise tower allowing views to every water feature in the region, on fine days possibly even as far as Tasmania, if not Antarctica. BRING IT ON !!

[@GruntildaAU]

I feel called out, as a cribby resident. The train line exists because how Tf else am I going to get to Frankston when the buses only come through once an hour and a half 😆

[@jennyhonda9642]

The line is used by Lysarts steel, they freight steel rolls on a regular basis, keeping the industry going. The Crib Point station was needed to transport navy personal to Cerbrus for their training before going to war, my Dad trained at Cerberus. The navy cadets still use the train to get about during their rec leave. The defence dept have spent millions on Cerburus in recent years, open day is the 3rd of March 24 and yes taking the train would be a great addition to a fun day out. Train link to French island and Phillip island has been important to transport fresh fish to markets and restaurants. Leewarra station is the station you need for Monash Frankston campus, Frankston station is next to Frankston Homesglen campus, these all serve student from the Stoney Point Line.

[@roadwolf2]

There actually used to be passing loops on the stony point line but they were removed when the loco-hauled services were stopped and the sprinters were brought on.

[@tonydodds5207]

Used to be that junior sailors under training at HMAS Cerberus would catch a train from Cerberus on Friday afternoon and get a (very) early train back to base on Monday morning. I remember running in a panic to catch the train back.

[@3Dant]

Cool video, I had no idea this line existed!

[@no_triggerwarning9953]

There was a line to Mornington that branched from the Stoney Point line at Baxter. This closed in 1981 however a short section of it was used by the Mornington Tourist railway. The Mornington line terminated in the centre of Mornington, the site is now occupied by Mornington central shopping centre. All the railway easement land west of Nepean Highway has been sold off and developed. I have seen Vline diesel locos hauling passenger carriages on the Stoney Point line. They uncouple at Stoney Point and use the second track to change to the other end of the carriages for the return journey to Frankston.

[@QazzyTransport]

as for mornington, i mentioned this in the video. Diesel locos no longer run to Stony Point.

[@TheFinalMinutes]

Great video! Such a shame that the services are so infrequent and the stations so poor. With some newer stations, more frequent services and governments opening up land for new housing, the whole area could have a new lease of life, especially for people who don't want to live close to Melbourne.

[@ProgrammedForDamage]

When I was a teenager, my girlfriend's place used to back onto the Stony Point line at the top of a hill just past Leawarra. During some ungodly hour in the middle of the night you'd be woken to the house shaking as the steel train accelarated up the hill.

[@billchisholm7334]

I have used the Stony Point line many times, also the old Mornington line when it was running, fun memories.

[@cragle1114]

if you were to add well placed passing loop(s) you wouldn't need additional rolling stock for a better service although it would be nice you could just operate the two sprinters cars separately on a permeant basis as is already done temporally as capacity is not an issue and achieve a 45 minute bi-directional frequency which is multiple times better than the current operation and a consistent time gap between services grew up in Hastings/crib point btw

[@QazzyTransport]

yes but the Sprinters won't last forever, you'd need some form of modern rolling stock.

[@PJRayment]

You're assuming that the more frequent services wouldn't attract more patronage which would require more than a single Sprinter on each trip.

[@Tmm42s]

Interesting accent, half Australian half American. Great video!

[@mikle2129]

I get a feeling he’s autistic. My cousin is autistic and I’ve noticed he and several even high functioning often unawarely talk with an American accent

[@darylcheshire1618]

you cannot bring bicycles and surfboards on buses. The current government ruled out electrification to Baxter, but if that did occur, what will happen to the Baxter-Stony Point service. If the steel trains didn’t run, it wouldn’t be worth keeping the line open. However the steel train is very heavy, Each wagon can carry 4-6 rolls of steel but a truck can only carry one roll of steel over the back wheels. When it was closed in the ‘80s it was only the short line beyond Hastings that was closed, the line from the steel mill was still open. The under investment reminds me of the Upfield line which retained all the wooden gates and gatekeepers for years because it was hanging by a thread.

[@onuraycicek9135]

hey, nice video. and also youre the first one i joined to their channel :D

[@QazzyTransport]

wow thank you!

[@phillipisland1]

As a longtime resident of Phillip Island I’d greatly appreciate an upgrade to this line and frequency. I’d also appreciate more frequent ferry crossings from the island to catch the train.

[@coolguyontheinternet]

I used to catch this train from Somerville to Monash Uni Frankston on the off chance it came before the 782 bus 😂. Good times.

[@MorrisHillmanProductions]

One plausible solution would be to build some two car VLocities.

[@iandalton9147]

You forgot to mention Australia's largest Naval Base beside the Stoney Point station !

[@haruhisuzumiya6650]

I thought that was Jarvis bay area

[@TomHommus]

Do you actually need to extend the platforms? NSW service platforms that are significantly shorter than the train itself. They just mark the station as SP1 (front car) SP2 (front two cars), SP4 (front 4 cars), SP4r (back 4 cars), SP2r (back 2 cars), SP1r (rear car). No markings means the station fits the entire 8 carriages. So depending on the station you need to get off at you travel in the relevant area of the train.

[@dorothynu]

I was going to post the same. There are stations on other VLine lines that aren't long enough for 6 carriage trains. The conductor just announces this.

[@PJRayment]

I think for health and safety reasons it would be considered unacceptable these days to introduce new places for that to happen.

[@TomHommus]

@@PJRayment you just use selective door opening. For example some platforms in NSW only fit the last car so on platform screen indicators it says (SP1r) which is short for short platform last 1st from rear. Then when it goes to the platform only that door opens. Others are locked. So no danger to anyone.

[@PJRayment]

@@TomHommus Yes, that's a possibility. And yes, that would address the health and safety reasons if that was done, although no Melbourne trains have that capability, except for the Comeng trains to a limited extent (but they are being withdrawn, and I think that option has been withdrawn) and the HCMT trains, which is apparently only for emergency use. But you'd also have people missing the instructions and complaining, and/or people holding the train up while they race through carriages to get off, etc. Again, that doesn't mean that it can't be done, but I don't think that there would be any appetite from the authorities for it.

[@TomHommus]

@@PJRayment how it's done in NSW is that where you're meant to be on the train is indicated on the indicator boards, guard announcements and on the timetables (online and pdf). As for racing for the correct car, it's just a simple case of you snooze you lose. It's a lesson to pay more attention. Saves alot of money and allows stations to remain open (where it would have been closed due to failing cost benefit for platform extension) I've not heard of anyone complaining about getting on the wrong car of a train in many decades.

[@comedyzone]

Other cities around the world that are comparable to melbourne (ie Toronto) have services that limit certain station exiting to a subset of the carriages. For example if the platform isnt long enough, they announce that only doors in carriage one and two will be opening at the next station, allowing users to move between the carriages prior to arrival (Usually while sitting at a previous station). This requires 1-2 minute pauses at each station, but if the service operates (at best) every 40 minutes, then so be it. They could also pick a mid stop and run services in either direction from that point, shuttling. Meet in the middle and have passengers switch trains and continue their journey in the other direction. This would avoid the need for building more tracks while testing a higher frequency service. If usage increases, they could then invest in upgrades along the network. The ultimate answer has to be extending the Frankston line to be the Stony Point line, rebuilding the stations and doubling the tracks. But this is a long term solution and isn't sustainable until population in those areas grow - probably in 20-30 years, otherwise all those upgrade costs and ongoing maintenance of stations and tracks will be a major deficit to the system and just increase our fare costs unnecessarily.

[@nickk6286]

I used to ride on the Mornington line via Baxter from 1979 to 1981 - was sad that that Mornington line was disconnected at Baxter - I used to catch it from Dandenong via Caulfield to Frankston to Mornington! almost every weekend. I would like the see the electrified lines Baxter extended up so that it can rebuild the Mornington line again!.

[@mjcats2011]

No need to electrify to Baxter anymore. The stabling yards which were going to be at Baxter is now at Kananook. Any Melton/Wyndhamvale should be electrified waaaay before Stony Point.

[@normandiebryant6989]

Surely a dozen buses would provide a better service with less capital outlay. However, when the line was closed, the handful of rail passengers complained and the train was restored. It used to be run with Walkers (big and small) when I was a kid in the 60s and, surprisingly, it was run with a DERM for a few years when it reopened in the early/mid 80s until the Sprinters were built.

[@PJRayment]

Yes, it had Walkers and then DERMS, but before the Sprinters it had both loco-hauled ex-Harris carriages, and DRCs.

[@klhaldane]

I used to ride that line when they used single carriage red rattler style cars with a little luggage section at the back for freight.

[@scottn2046]

My understanding is battery trains have issues with weight and charge time but the most popular use is to extend lines without electrifying them, for example you charge between City and Frankston and run on battery to Stony Point and back. It's probably not worth investing in these just for Stony Point but I wonder if there are other lines that could benefit from being extended without electrification as the city continues to grow (or even Tarneit, Healesville, & Mornington ) and these kind of trains could be added to the fleet mix. Also I've seen trains in Europe that stop at stations with platforms that are shorter than the train. So in theory you'd need to upgrade every station to upgrade the trains ..but .. in practice if one of the 3 carriages doesn't open its doors at a super low use stations and people have to talk to the adjacent carriage that's not a major crisis. That would mean a more affordable slow rollout upgrade.

[@alan.w]

Great video. Thank you! 🙏👍

[@BrizzysTrains44206]

In Queensland we have 2 weird lines, it’s a tie between the doomben line and the Sunshine Coast line (specifically past Caboolture), the doomben line, has 4 stations on one single track, home to one of the weirdest stations (clayfield) the stations are very close together, Hendra and doomben station do not need to exist because of how close they are, then the track goes for another 5 kilometres UNTILL it reaches a loop at pinkenbah then comes back, then there’s the sunshine coast line, home to the most weirdest queensland station, traveston station, the Sunshine Coast line, just like the doomben line has one track going from Caboolture too Gympie north and it’s also the second longest line in queenslandrail, at the stations, there is a second track that forms just before the station both ways then if there’s a train already at the platform, you go into that second track, let the train pass through then back onto the main track then go Into the platform then UNTILL one of the termination stations nambour, then after nambour it’s keeps going on a 1 track line but without the added second track at the station because the trains come twice a day, and then traveston, it’s the least used stations getting around 1 customer a day

[@ADF_Cable]

Thaks mate, subbed! Are you heading to the steamrail Newport workshops open day coming up? Cheers

[@QazzyTransport]

yes

[@top40researcher31]

The Stony Point line forms a somewhat linear route from the Frankston station to its terminus in the small town of Stony Point. The route is 31 kilometres (19 mi) long and is predominantly single tracked, with double tracked sections only present at select stations on the line. After changing from the Frankston line at Frankston station, the Stony Point line traverses mainly flat country with few curves and fairly minimal earthworks for most of the line. Many level crossings are still present on the line with no plans to remove any as part of the Level Crossing Removal Project. After Frankston, most of the rail line goes through smaller suburbs and some industrial areas, with large sections of the line passing through more open countryside, passing by open fields and farms.

[@muddydave01]

On the Main North line between Sydney and Newcastle there are a bunch of short platforms that are only served by part of the train. From memory the smallest is Wondabyne, half a carriage length, alight from the guards compartment. Then Koolewong and Tascott are 2 cars long with a whole bunch being 4 cars long, this on a line regularly serviced by 8 car sets. Announcements let passengers know which cars serve which stations. I suppose it would be possible to run the 3 car velocity or other replacement with similar restrictions.

[@tabuoey]

I cant tell you how exciting it is for my classes to align with the stony point timetable, even if I only get to take it for one stop to Leawarra, its still fun!

[@netzaltali]

I recently visited a friend down in Bittern and I wondered why this train was here at all. I guess now I know. Also the peninsula is metropolitan, it was shut like the rest of Melbourne during Covid 😅

[@bradallen8909]

The Mornington Peninsula is absolutely NOT part of metropolitan Melbourne.

[@netzaltali]

@bradallen8909 but it is. It's a common phrase down there.

[@bradallen8909]

@@netzaltaliAnyone suggesting that places like Sorrento and Flinders are part of Melbourne is absolutely deluded.

[@andrewmelbournetransport]

Fu fact about the stony point line is if the one sprinter breaks down then the entire line gets suspended

[@johnmc703]

In the 90's the service was a diesel hauled, usually an "A" class, with the 3 car converted V/line Harris set.

[@seanotinderson6165]

I caught a single carriage sprinter back to Geelong one night. Hell weird.

[@rebelliousreptile7336]

Its gonna be interesting how the expansion of melbourne suburbia will affect the line. I honestly think itll reopen a few lines or if areas get popular enough even branch out to new ones.

[@zoomosis]

Population increase on the Mornington Peninsula is pretty slow compared to areas like Cranbourne, Pakenham or the outer western suburbs. For example the City of Melton's population has doubled in the last 20 years and has already outgrown the entire population of the Mornington Peninsula. Electrification to Melton, Tarneit and Clyde should be much higher priority. And I say that as a peninsula resident.

[@andrewwarcup684]

Just because population growth has not happened yet, it will. Then the line will need up grading.

[@PJRayment]

@@andrewwarcup684 Significant population growth will only occur if the government wants it to happen, and allows/encourages/forces rezonings of the land for that to happen.

[@dnaylor2484]

while extension of platforms is a nicer option its not specifically required to run multi car sets, on Sydney trains that run to blue mountains, newcastle or down to the south coast there are often short platforms, these are listed both at the main stations, on internal notices and scrolling destination info and guard announcements telling passengers which carriage they need to be in to get out.. shortest ones require you to be at the door next to the guard as that is literally the only part on the 6mtre long platform..😂

[@thehighwaystar1339]

One time I came back from a french island holiday and found out there were no trains runnning all day.

[@216dozza]

I used to cath this train to stony point to catch the ferry to Phillip island, a very long time ago.

[@tinascousin]

It will be duplicated and electrified, you suggest. Platforms would need to be extended, even stations rebuilt. The issue is the cost and if it holds greater promise than other options, you said, and that the question is when, not if. I’d actually argue that “when?” isn’t the first logical question that comes to mind when considering the future of the Stoney Point line. The first question I thought of was “why?”. I’d argue that the Stoney Point line is its own greatest enemy right now, the law of diminishing returns having already well and truly kicked in: no more than one train on the line at any given time… so no opportunity for more… so no opportunity to increase service frequency… so no opportunity to demonstrate to locals how beneficial an expanded timetable of services could be… so no chance of positive word of mouth or any other exposure for those suggested benefits… so no real way of justifying the cost of such a project… and all the while, little more than theoretical notions of how good it could be if all these things happened. This is such a bizarre line, a legacy of the past. The fact that it still exists in the 2020s is almost more of a miracle than if large-scale improvements were ever actually given the green light!

[@mbwyatt1978]

VLocity trains originally had 2 unit sets. No problem there... If a set can be made available. However, I do wonder about some sort of battery electric train that charges at stops like some new light rails do(?).

[@acesretroonline]

Reopening to Mornington is another good idea. I'm not sure how worth it upgrading Stony Point line really is. Single track electric might be where it's going similar to Belgrave or Hurstbridge. They really need to reopen Mornington first imo.

[@mjcats2011]

Leave Stony Point as Diesel and add a couple of passing loops.