Melkor and Fëanor: The Sin of Creation

[@therealpatagonianpancakes]

If Fëanor was around today, he would work so hard on protecting his own copyrighted creations it would make Disney shiver

[@GirlNextGondor]

I didn't intend for this video to be topical, I really just wanted to explore the theme of jealousy and creativity, but the more I wrote the more applicable it seemed to several recent situations 😬

[@EJack2841]

He is....It's Kanye West

[@minnumseerrund]

Morgoth takes things, twist them and release them as his own. Like Disney

[@RoyCyberPunk]

@@minnumseerrund And like Amazon with Tolkien himself his works that is.

[@jeffersonjjohnson]

or Games Workshop, since they just piggyback on the creativity of others than trademark it lol.

[@ryanratchford2530]

Interesting that the dragons (Melkor’s most creative thing) clash with the dwarves (Aule’s creation)

[@RoyCyberPunk]

I always like to think that Vermitrax Pejorative from the movie Dragonslayer was the very last dragon on Earth created by Melkor.

[@beatleblev]

Intentional or not, I believe Tolkien's war experience collided with his love of nature to color his view of advancing technology. Seeing the countryside that was so pleasant just a few years ago turned into bloody muddy wastelands and watching the guy who let you bum a smoke last night get turned into hamburger by a German machinegun might affect your views on the creators of such quick and easy destruction. In a world where the magic system does not include (on-screen) fireballs, devices are the quickest way to turn thought to physical action. Tolkien got a first hand look at what 'devices' could do in the wrong hands and it was not an adventure; it was a horror. The he had to watch his sons participate in an evolved version of his nightmare that ended with an atomic bomb. Finally, when it wasn't directly slaughtering people in war, technology was busy paving over the countryside, and polluting the sky. The efficiency and speed of implementation that Marion found so attractive about Melkor was the thing that Tolkien found so abhorrent: it was so fast and so easy. The creations of 'things more wondrous than intended by their creators' is the goal of Ea itself; however, it is the impulse that so often leads to hubris and then corruption. You have convinced me that Aule's first lesson for any of his Padawans, be they Maia or one of the Children, should have been titled, "Aule and the Dwarfs." If the people you trust start giving you the side eye, maybe pause, and reconsider what you are doing. Asking for help might just lead to an outcomes that dwarfs your expectations. Unfortunately, the creators of some of the greatest works of Art and Craft were a-holes: Sauron, Saruman, Feanor, Eol, Curufin, and his boy, the best of the lot, Celebrimbor. The Valar tended to work in pairs, maybe that would have curbed some of the extreme possessiveness and led to even cooler stuff. The Lamps of Aule were filled with Varda's light. In turn, the Trees of Yavanna fed the Wells of Varda. Manwe and Varda can see and hear everything when they are together. Perhaps Aule should have assigned lab partners?

[@marieroberts5458]

Lol! Yes! But I think Mairon was lab assistant to Melkor, and we see how that turned out, ;-)

[@GirlNextGondor]

I definitely think Tolkien's experiences of technology being misused, for war especially though not exclusively, played into the caution with which such goals must be undertaken in M-e (and even the best of intentions are often not enough to forestall hubris). The *resistance* to collaboration seems to characterize Morgoth, and later Sauron and Saruman 😅 so an assigned lab partner might have simply made them more resentful.

[@marieroberts5458]

@@GirlNextGondor hey look at how Saruman treated his assigned lunch buddy..."Awe, com'on Auntie Yav, do I have to take Radagast with me? He smells and his teeth are crooked!"

[@eriksmith5498]

Feanor is still, without a doubt, one of my favourite characters of all time that Tolkien has created, along with Turin, for the sheer complexity about him, and he feels the most human and relatable to me too. He's so psychologically different to all the other elves and it's fascinating. He's not straight up good which is what I like because I don't believe anyone is straight up good as much as we try to be, or like to think we are, and his crueller aspects and deeds are understandable. And more often than not, I find that quite a lot of people often neglect to observe, or barely ever acknowledge that the choices the Valar could and in some areas did, affect some of Feanor's choices by either saying, "Feanor defied the Valar beyond reason," or "Whether or not the Valar played a part, Feanor didn't listen to them." As arrogant, stubborn, cruel and foolish Feanor was, I can see where he came and empathise with him whilst also seeing and accepting he did do horrible and ill conceived things. It's probably why it annoys me that others don't acknowledge the ill conceived choices the Valar made, despite their good intention, only ever criticising (and rightfully) Melkor.

[@DanielFerreira-hz4cc]

The biggest section of Valar did really big mistakes (thought they are passible to errors), this not help in already doubtfoul Feanor's trust. Feanor also have a much insegurity, not being a straight good as you say, so, all was amplified by situation. If more Valar used to be actively protecting the Middle Earth (Like Ulmo), instead of being passive and interfere only in a disastrous War of Wrath, maybe this give more trust to Feanor. Give him a bigger knowledge of the situation (as him have), this can help.

[@DanielFerreira-hz4cc]

He was the elf that have so much fea, that give him a major comprehension of the Valar intention's.

[@darthex0]

Turin was like many characters, the coalescence of many contempory examples. All of which were outcasts and vengeful of those who would impose their failed loyalties on them.

[@magicfeather7871]

Very true. I think the most frustrating thing about Feanor is that he'll start in a position where he's right and then overreact to such an extreme that puts him entirely in the wrong. Brother is undermining your place as your father's heir? A normal person might go to their father with their concerns, a better person might arrange for a conversation among everyone and try and find common ground - but no, he threatens to kill him instead. Valar who promised to protect you fail miserably and let a being of pure evil loose to murder your father? Totally understandable that he is furious, and grieving, and critical of their decisions - and his response is to lead his family and his people into an unwinnable war, killing innocents along the way. So smart and yet so, so dumb.

[@marcoscarrasco92]

In both their cases, creation is a subversion of the natural order born of hubris. Furthermore, one could argue Fëanor is a hero in the Greek style. Magnificent and at the same time irredeemably flawed.

[@GirlNextGondor]

That's a good way of putting it! I'm continuing to wrestle with the tension between, on the one hand, the ongoing creation and renewal that is emphasized so heavily in Tolkien, and on the other, the perils of an arrogant, meddlesome attitude that assumes one can "know better" than the created order. I would not let Feanor watch my kids (or my dog for that matter), but gosh is he entertaining 😆

[@KipIngram]

I used to be the vice president of engineering for a small electronics company in Houston. In a conversation one day with the owner of the company, himself probably the most talented engineer I'd ever met, and certainly one of the best analog circuit designers I've ever worked with we talked about the folks who worked on our assembly line, basically sticking parts into the right holes on circuit boards all day long. We noted that without them there was no company, and all of the things we did came to nothing. And also that neither of us could do what they did. It's not that we wouldn't have understood what to do - it's just that we wouldn't have been able to stand sitting there doing that all day long every day. That kind of patience and perseverance is itself a high quality, and believe me - only some of us have it. It really does take many, many people to truly bring impressive things into the world.

[@istari0]

I've always thought there were a lot of similarities between Melkor and Fëanor with Fëanor basically followed the same path that Melkor blazed. But one of the things about Tolkien that has always puzzled me was why most of the powerful villains came from the creative, crafty types and yes I'm including Fëanor in the list of villains. It's enough to give Aulë an inferiority complex!

[@GirlNextGondor]

It's really quite ironic, I've always gotten such chill vibes from Aule but he has the worst luck with his proteges. It must be depressing seeing your most promising pupils all fall into the same traps.

[@scottgrasser9475]

very possible it stems from Tolkiens war experience he was witness to seeing creation used for mass war and death as well as factory's ruining the environment i know he was very against industry but i do not know if that influenced his storys anti creation angle

[@kwazooplayingguardsman5615]

I believe because the act of creation is the most rewarding act that a thinking person may do but it is also most prone to conceit and arrogance. It is right and just for you to create works, marvel at it, and preserve it but it doesn't give you license to abhor the sources that were its mortar.

[@awl61]

This probably stems from some doubt that Tolkien himself had about his creations. For instance in his story "Leaf by Niggle" his stand ins doubts about finishing his painting completely alone, mirror this. This also highlights one of the true beauties of Tolkien's works, that videos like these and all other forms of creative output derived from Tolkien truly validated this maxim of collaboration and creation.

[@GirlNextGondor]

I think it's very much a case of him struggling with this issue over his lifetime, and that tension coming out semi-consciously in his art. Another point of tension that I seem to remember coming up in Leaf by Niggle is the tension between one's artistic 'calling' and one's legal and moral duties - you can't justify being a jerk and letting people down for the sake of your Tree, even if it's the Tree you were made to paint. I don't think Feanor or Melkor would have responded well to that idea 🤣

[@gagaplex]

That background of Tolkien's view of art as derivative off Creation Is very interesting.

[@ecthelion1735]

One thing I would have expanded on is the line between derivation and corruption. Tolkien mentioned that the Enemy, including Saruman, Sauron, and even the goblins, were skilled at devising machines of war. In terms of industry, their creation was predicated on destruction.

[@ecthelionofthefountain8267]

I'm so happy right now. Thanks so much Lexi for this video. Feanor and Melkor really do mirror each other in many ways. Makes one wonder if Feanor joined forces with Melkor they would have been practically unstoppable for a certain amount of time.

[@GirlNextGondor]

🥲 thank you, that's so great to hear! One of my favorite what-if games is 'what if Melkor had succeeded in convincing Feanor to join him.' The one good thing Feanor's Silmaril-lust did for him was to tip him off to Melkor's true motives. ...of course, another of my favorite what-if games is 'what if Feanor HAD agreed to give up his Silmarils, and then when their theft was discovered, had pursued them with pure, noble motives, fully backed by the Valar and his half-brothers, and with the Telerin navy at his disposal.' That one is less interesting, but has a happier ending (well, happier for everyone but Morgoth) 🤣

[@Archgeek0]

@@GirlNextGondor Oh *wow* , now that's a scenario. You'd certainly have a *much* shorter Siege of Angband, the balrogs scattered before the combined might of the both Noldor hosts and whatever Teleri decided to join the Quest to Restore the Trees, the gate sundered, possibly even the roof torn off like Utumno before it... heck maybe Sauron panics and sells his boss out, taking back his old name Mairon as he's escorted in shackles back to Valinor and we get some kind of confrontation between a suddenly desperate Morgoth and Feanor, his sons, and a _sizeable_ honour guard. Morgoth either gets his butt chained and imprisoned again, or he takes a desperate stroke at Feanor and is slain by Feanor's kids centuries before Turin's even born. But then... the jewels go back to Yavana, who rekindles the Trees, and then what? Do some Noldor and Teleri still hang out in Beleriand, ferreting out the last of Morgoth's creatures that haven't fled over the blue mountains? I wonder if someone's already written out such an AU.

[@shehassee]

I don’t think that the similarities between Melkor and Feanor are at all a matter of coincidence.

[@GirlNextGondor]

I agree - at first some of the resemblances might appear irrelevant, but I think these characters are meant to find themselves in uncannily similar situations. Which is all the more interesting considering how deeply they hated each other; you might have expected there'd be some sympathy between them.

[@robertpizor577]

So glad to see you're back and uploading! I had never actually considered the parallels between Melkor and Feanor before, so I appreciate the education. It actually strikes me that it was a very good thing for Arda that Feanor was killed so early in the war as he could have become a very fearsome dark lord all on his own. With the Kinslaying, you could make an argument that he was already well on his way to becoming the next Melkor. So, thank Iluvatar for those Balrogs that took him out, I guess!

[@GirlNextGondor]

I think Feanor's death was ultimately have been in his own best interests, too. He certainly wasn't on a good path, and moreover he didn't seem able to stop himself even though there are suggestions (especially in the unpublished essays) that he WANTED to. If nothing else, I find it hilarious (as well as poignant and thematically significant) that Feanor and Melkor hated each other so so much, above any other enemy or adversary... and yet, they were essentially mirror versions of each other. Living demonstrations of the principle that you resent most in others what you secretly hate about yourself 😅

[@robertpizor577]

@@GirlNextGondor Fascinating! I think that he and his sons underestimated the power of the Oath they took because clearly it was a very destructive force which destroyed the lives of not only Feanor but also all but one of his sons. Yes! Both were such creative rogues with egos the size of Ungoliant so it was only a matter of time before they clashed lol.

[@indio4-215]

​@@robertpizor577 Egos the size of Ungoliant? How about the size of Arda itself?

[@geir8849]

Your reflect on this topic with such clarity, intelligence and...creativety (dangerous territory)😉 Wonder how Tolkien felt about these characters? Did he like them? We are raised to condemn evil deeds, but perhaps we must look to the east for the understanding that "good" can't exist without evil. In a sence Melkor is the creator of meaning in this mythology. "There is something good in this world worth fighting for". The resonance of the dedicated readers is providing the true depth of an artists work. You are quickly becoming my favorite Tolkien channel. Thank for the effortless effort😊👍

[@GirlNextGondor]

Thanks so much! I'm glad to hear you're enjoying the videos 😆 I think that while he had no trouble condemning their deeds very strongly, on some level Tolkien ,ight have had a degree of pity for even these characters, and they both embody a regret at squandered potential, among other things.

[@geir8849]

@@GirlNextGondor There is still an issue with the channel in terms of access to videos. Only a few videos available here. Hmmm. The magic series and character rehab series is gone with the wind.

[@MrTao-iy2nf]

How I view Tolkiens view on creating something is the fact that the most pure desires are influnced in a fallen or corrupted state so art can lead to nartures impulsives both good and bad and discipline is the guide to anchor you on the right path.

[@fredkrissman6527]

Not much I can add to the justly superlative comments already made... In a nutshell, your vids make me think, hard! Thanx so much.

[@GirlNextGondor]

Thank you 😁 that's awesome!

[@RoyCyberPunk]

The secret fire only belongs to Eru and is no coincidence that even in movies about sentient rational machines for the most part like Short Circuit or Bicentennial Man that spark or fire came miraculously to both. And on the opposite spectrum Skynet might as well be the AI incarnation of Morgoth, the devil himself.

[@GirlNextGondor]

The Clueless Fangirl also pointed out the parallels to the myth of Prometheus, the Titan who (depending on the version) created mankind and then stole fire to give them in defiance of the gods. I just did some very cursory googling and learned that Fire being a divine attribute that was given to mankind by someone who stole it is actually a common mythic trope globally. Maybe ol' Melkor was on to something....

[@RoyCyberPunk]

@@GirlNextGondor The secret fire and the Greek secret of fire from Greek mythology are different though but I see your point. And again is no coincidence Skynet much like Morgoth craved total domination above all else and therefore all the machines it created where enslaved to its will. Humans and any AI with true free will can do something they can never do. They can hope. kzbin.info/www/bejne/aXm8nZWda7d-g6M

[@PleaseNThankYou]

You crack me up. I love word play and I got a whole bunch of it today. One of my strongest desires is to understand how something good or righteously intended as/for “good”, can self corrupt to extreme evil. I think evil is a product of many causations but primarily a nurture or lack of nurture issue more so than nature. So what in the nurture of Melkor could have corrupted his heart? We have an idea what happened to Fëanor - loss of his mother who basically “ran off” as Elves don’t die. Míriel couldn’t muster the spiritual nor physical strength to raise her child… how devastating for Fëanor. Then his father goes off and marries another woman ( we understand how this was very odd under the circumstances!) and has kids with the Stepmom (we ALL know how that goes!). But Melkor… what happened.

[@GirlNextGondor]

This is one of the things that confounds me too. Melkor doesn't exactly have a 'childhood,' he's a being of pure spirit created before space and time proper. Yet he clearly has some kind of evolution... I think Tolkien also mulled this problem over several times throughout his life and may have developed some different conceptions of it.

[@DannyGGWP]

What a fantastic analysis. In this new Gilded age the parable of Melkor and Feanor feels more relevant than ever.

[@theeightbithero]

This was one of the best ways to troll rings of power.

[@nickw3867]

These themes of creation and ego are aspects of my own personality that I have struggled with. Thank you for distilling this, I am getting better year by year, and this story will help.

[@GirlNextGondor]

I think every creative person has to find the balance between originality and self-absorption. Tolkien certainly engaged with the problem over his whole life, and I know I've had to think long and hard about it myself. You're certainly not alone 😁

[@TheLadyVictory]

Thank you for shedding refreshing light on my eyeballs and mind.

[@GirlNextGondor]

💡YOU WILL BE ILLUMINATED 💡 🤣

[@darthex0]

These are Tolkien's main theses. Mastery, coalescence, and understanding. All of them share a diversity of perspective. Eru, Melkor, Feanor, and Celebrimbor all represent creativity. Which in turn, rely on freedom. Which in turn, introduces boundaries. All of which manifest conflict. These characters, within Ea, provide a plot device to explore commitment. They also allow for a contemporary comparison to be made both within the historical evolution of the novel and also the readers own personal life. What is common to all, except one, is that in the vanguard of creativity you accrue conflict. All of these figures had their creativity turned to destruction. The further they mastered their arts the further they distanced themselves from their contemporaries. The only one who did not was Eru. His or her creation had no contemporaries, had no boundaries....accept the void and in turn Ungoliant. This is the theme structure that is attested to the turning to destruction. This is the seed of doubt that undermines the creative enquiry, born of loyalty in commitment. It would suggest that both Ea and Ungoliant are two cheeks of the same arse.....to take the cynical approach. The gift of mortality is referenced in relation to this, but never explored to a similar depth.

[@michaelman957]

I just want to highlight the end of one of the other comments on this video: "Perhaps Aule should have assigned lab partners."

[@jarrodcarver9001]

It's very interesting that many people have connected this to not just real world events but also artists integrity. Ultimately, even if one's own interpretation is original, that act is still derivative. Much to think on. Thanks for the video!

[@GirlNextGondor]

Any time!

[@supernus8684]

I don't think the making of things as in any possible making of any possible thing is a dangerous and corrupting practice.But creating things for yourself that you would covet and not share or use for the benifit of others, this is the corrupting practice. Sauron created the ring for himself, Feanor created the silmarils for himself, Melkor claimed the world for himself and arguably created some part of it. But did they really truly create any of these things? The power or the materials or the knowledge, everything originated from Eru, claiming anything as truly yours and keeping it from others is objectively wrong. A false view of reality can only serve to corrupt, the lost always are the best liars to themselves.

[@strocau]

Good timing, just as I finished my own picture of Ainulindale. Thanks for the distinction between the symphony and the jam session! It also seems to me that Tolkien tries to connect the immortality of Valar and elves with their creativity. In creating anything they invest themselves intimately which is a definite and unrepeatable act. And this unique and unrepeatable character can raise the stakes as high for them as the fact that life is unique and unrepeatable for the mortals. It's interesting that while we have so many gods, elves and dwarves obsessed with their art, this is less dramatic for Tolkien's Men, they are obsessed with their inevitable death instead.

[@GirlNextGondor]

That's such a cool point - the short lifespan of Men kind of limits their ability to approach the sheer skill and craftsmanship of the longer-lived races, so it's almost as if the narrative of their lives, with a very definite start and end point, become their main 'creation.' Would love to see some Ainulindale art if you've got a link 😉

[@piotrczmiel7031]

Why did I discover this channel only now?

[@GirlNextGondor]

I blame the mighty algorithm 😆 Glad you're here now!

[@taylemgames2652]

One can look at the dangers/risks of science to see how creativity and knowledge can led to terrible things, from genetic manipulation of virus' and the human genome as well as nuclear weaponry. Given ambition, desire and hubris- anything can be twisted to an evil.

[@GirlNextGondor]

Exactly - ties in to what Tolkien said, for instance, about there not being 'good' or 'bad' magic but just techniques used for different purposes. Or some of his letters where he reflects on the horror he felt seeing new technologies turned to military purposes in both World Wars.

[@davidandrews2972]

Fascinating analysis, thank-you. I've sometimes wondered what Melkor's role would have been if he hadn't gone bad, or had repented, and I've speculated that it would have been as the balancer and matrix for the creations of other Valar...which I guess would make him the ultimate collaborator.

[@GirlNextGondor]

I have theories about this that I'm still working out - but one thought I keep having is that 'Melkor Unmarred' would function something like Shiva, an aspect of creation that renews by destroying the old order. Basically, the guy who would show up whenever his siblings were falling into ruts and growing a bit too complacent, say "Very good, but have you considered *this* ?" and leave them sputtering in mingled awe and fury, realizing they'd have to tear the whole structure of their work down and start over from a new angle.

[@maxforce]

As a creative Person I recognize the fact that I should never be given\achieve any Power or leadership roles, It would end badly for us all.

[@GirlNextGondor]

I think the takeaway is that Creative Types can certainly be leaders, but they need to welcome the input of others, with other styles of engaging with the world 😅 I know that keeping me grounded and holding me accountable is a full-time job for my pragmatic friends.

[@maxforce]

@@GirlNextGondor I think Melkor's frustration with others knowing He could do it better by Himself is what drove Him over the edge.

[@rebeccaaugustine8628]

Thanks for the summary. So glad I didn't bother reading this particular work of Tolkien!

[@GirlNextGondor]

Well, I don't know how well this video functions as a summary of either the Silmarillion or On Fairy Stories 😅... but you're welcome?

[@DmDrae]

You get a sub just for the clever username. Looking forward to absorbing your content!

[@Enerdhil]

Excellent video, Lexi. I really think I am taking a college course when I watch your videos and Steven's videos. You guys give us a deep and profound look into the Legendarium. You have the gift of making extremely difficult-to-grasp concepts in the lore understandable. I just wish you could get more subs, although over 8K views of this video is a step in the right direction. 😁

[@courageousconversations9794]

Whoa, this video is so unique!

[@GirlNextGondor]

Thank you! 😊

[@sandorsbox]

I believe that pride and avarice are the sins found in creation in Middle-Earth. Creation itself doesn't seem to be the core sin.

[@themadotaku]

This is an excellent analysis. I would really enjoy seeing you make more videos that take a high level view of the themes in the stories. You seem particularly insightful here and have caused me to look at the story a bit differently. You're very sharp and familiar with the material. Very well done.

[@radrose4864]

This video…what a banger! Subbed

[@GirlNextGondor]

I'm a simple woman: I see a dark lord and his mortal enemy (who resembles him in almost every particular), I subject them to spurious analysis 🤣 Thanks for the sub, and welcome aboard!

[@arisgazetas2920]

Great comparison!

[@GirlNextGondor]

Thank you, glad you think so!

[@exharkhun5605]

Brilliant analysis.

[@waltonsmith7210]

I get a strong whiff of Paradise Lost.

[@GirlNextGondor]

It's a distinctive aroma 😅 Though I think Miltonic Satan's driving motive was to *rule,* which led him to try to create a kingdom; with Morgoth I think it was the opposite. He wanted to *create,* and eventually that turned into a desire to rule and control, to keep others from 'messing with' his ideas.

[@sturgeonbowl]

This was beautifully done and wonderfully insightful. Thank you!

[@mypeeps1965]

What if Feanor was actually the child of Melkor? What if Melkor took the form of Finwe and impregnated Míriel causing her death and then killing Finwe himself/dividing his house to the ruin of the Noldor so he/Melkor, his child, and grandchildren could rule middle earth. Feanor creating the Silmarils probably with some encouragement from iluvitar put a stop to his/Melkors plans, after all, they both could not have them. If it wasn't for the Silmarils the whole world could have been very different! OK, I'LL PUT THE REDBULL DOWN AND WALK AWAY!.... LOL TAKE CARE.

[@GirlNextGondor]

I'm here for the Redbull-fueled theories 😜 And while this certainly isn't the narrative Tolkien wrote (not that I think you were suggesting that), it would fit in very well thematically - particularly in that Miriel's expiration, and Finwe's subsequent remarriage, were deemed somehow fruits of the Discord, evidence that even in Valinor things could go very wrong and wills could be twisted to ill ends. The question of the Silmarils is another good tie-in - because as much as they motivate evil in those who become obsessed with them, they are also the one thing that keeps Feanor from throwing in his lot with Melkor entirely.

[@mypeeps1965]

@@GirlNextGondor SO I'M/WERE SANE?...LOL

[@HairTiesForGlorfindel]

Yesss! I've been checking back every day 💞💞💞

[@GirlNextGondor]

🥰 hope you enjoy!

[@da_BemBem]

Speaking of the Dwarves, will you be doing a video on them in the future?

[@shanenolan8252]

Thanks Lexi

[@GirlNextGondor]

No problem Shane

[@Turvalon]

Great insights here! Keep up the good work.

[@eluthiccgol4715]

Great video, Lexi!

[@GirlNextGondor]

You're the best!

[@jeffersonjjohnson]

Melkor could be summed up well by simply saying "he's Lucifer". It's not that Melkor wanted to create something of his own without working inside the Song, it's that he wanted to create something of his own in service to himself. He wanted to be like and equal to Eru. Contrast this to Aule, who committed an error in making the dwarves on his own. His motivation was innocent like a child wanting to be like his father and to impress. Wrong action, wrong motive vs wrong action, right motive. Ulmo's clouds and snow. I really like this because we can tell Eru knew this all along and really wanted to encourage and share his creativity with his kids. I usually spend too much time being frustrated at Feanor and his cursed offspring to think much deeper. I liked the analysis a lot. Boromir's sin was to not keep 1 resource in his pool, thus failing to provide a +1 attack bonus to all Gondor allies in play. This, more often than not results in a poor board state with no characters left to quest in the following round, leading to a dangerous threat level. (Sorry, noticed the LotR LCG art)

[@GirlNextGondor]

You're right, there's definitely Lucifer/Satan parallels - somewhere there's a letter where Tolkien even points out it's impossible to avoid them, not only with Melkor but with Sauron and even Feanor. I would say he's 'luciferian' - unless we get into the esoteric interpretations, Lucifer doesn't seem particularly associated with creativity the way Melkor was. You're exactly right about Aule being the perfect counterexample - both Melkor and Aule want to 'imitate' Eru, and exceed their station by doing so, but Aule is motivated by his love for things other than himself, and Melkor's motive is to eliminate anything *but* himself - his own ideas and desires. So Aule offers up his work and finds it fulfilled, while Melkor tries to suck everything into "his" project, and finds at the end he's squandered his power to make *anything*. Poor Boromir 🤣 if only he'd been more prudent....

[@johnh6524]

The problem is that of idolatrism - if you think of the Golden Calf story, the problem isn't the worshipping of false Gods (because they don't exist); it is that the Children of Israel have made something which they then worship. In the process of worshipping a created object, they become less than the object, in Christian terms, this is a sin because the worshipers become something less than an object; and a thing can't have faith in (a relationship with) God. The fall of Melkor or Fëanor is similar; they become dominated by their creations and become less as they and can no longer have communion with other beings that have free will. The reification of the things they have made diminishes them - makes them less than their creations; therefore, they fall as they can no longer appreciate the purpose of Eru.

[@GirlNextGondor]

This is a neat take - to submit themselves to the thing they themselves have made, to abandon the complexity of their being and reduce themselves (voluntarily!) to a single function, they make themselves 'lower' in a way than the objects they revere, and therefore can't participate in the fullness of their own 'createdness,' which includes their very ability to create, as a function of their descent from the Creator. So again it all boils down to free will 😅 Eru can't *make* them do what's best for them, and if they insist on a particular course of action, well, the consequences of that action will not be withheld from them.

[@johnh6524]

@@GirlNextGondor Very nicely put, I think one of the things I like best about Tolkien is the coherence of the theology of his world. He plays with and explores ideas borrowed from Catholicism, Christianity and other myths and legends. Another idea I like is that although agents in Arda have free will they cannot escape Eru's purpose, whatever actions they take reveal Eru's purpose more subtly and more beautifully. I am not arguing that Tolkien is writing allegories what he is doing is war more interesting I think the Red Book channel analysis these ideas very well. I like this video kzbin.info/www/bejne/hKulhWZvnN1giqc a reconstruction of a conversation between Tolkien and CS Lews is interesting (I say this as both an atheist and a materialist). The video is very Christian, not crass but interesting.

[@ianheins650]

Nice work

[@jamth118]

Great video keep up the good work

[@ricomariani]

Thanks!

[@GirlNextGondor]

Thank YOU! Really appreciate your support. 🥰

[@Nedded]

I'll take one for the team #fëanordidnothingwrong

[@GirlNextGondor]

I am in the weird position of fully believing Feanor did many things Wrong, but being incapable of resenting or judging him in any way for it.

[@allisonkreutzberg6079]

Great analysis 🧐. I enjoyed the discussion very much!

[@HowieChicago]

Great content as always

[@GirlNextGondor]

Thank you as always Howie

[@stephanc6138]

perhaps they should've found delight/ pride in others reaction to their creations or in the creations themselves...in what their skills can do...instead of the skill itself? 🤔

[@GirlNextGondor]

I think Aule is the counterexample to Feanor and Melkor, and one of his distinguishing points is how much he enjoys sharing, not only his works, but his knowledge. He wants others to be able to benefit and pursue their own projects just as strongly as he wants to bring his own ideas into reality. I don't think either Feanor or Melkor embody that attitude!

[@DrTSquare]

You are good!

[@pattenicus]

Excellent video. Interesting and thought provoking. Do you play Lord of the Rings Online?

[@GirlNextGondor]

Thank you! And no, I don't play LotRO, but I've heard very good things and have considered jumping in just to see what it's all about.

[@pattenicus]

@@GirlNextGondor It is fun and has lots of places from the books to visit , Bag End, Goblin Town Minas Tirith Bree etc. If you do decide to have a look round I'm on the Laurelin server and I would gladly show you some of the sights

[@ryanmckeon1134]

Rad!

[@GirlNextGondor]

Thank you sir!

[@Lord_Nielsen]

We are lead to believe Tolkien’s theme tells us creation is the ultimate gateway to pride and therefore all sin. This is derived from Lucifer and I digress Christian theology. This is the foundation of most of his characters; how they interact with the morals and virtues set before them by god?

[@stevemiller4494]

While others are praising your analytical skills here.... I must admit that it is an absolute over analyzation and comes across as obsessive. Very robot-like and impassionate and delivered to quickly. When I listen to this I feel like instead of you trying to share this information and to help others understand. I feel that you are actually trying to use your analytical skills to impress others in other words you're trying way too hard. In other words you're trying to steamroll your audience with your intellect. Honestly I think that you would probably Chase people and subscribers or I should say potential subscribers away with this..... It makes you look like a know it all.... The only ones that would be impressed with this type of narration would be those that are over analytical themselves, people that get bogged down in the details.... This would have been much better in a two or three part series.... And instead of steamrolling your audience you should be slowing it down and trying to bring your audience into your theories.... Don't try to control it don't try to over analyze it.... Let your audience decide, you should have many open-ended questions.... Get your listeners to think do not think for them. You must remember that the silmarillion, the Lord of the rings, The Hobbit all of these are works of art.... And must be enjoyed as such, in other words just like a song that is produced.... Once that song goes out there others are going to see it differently from their perspective they are going to identify that art with themselves and how they see it despite the original makers intent. So with art it's up to the eye of the beholder. And that's what you're taking away from The Listener. When I read the silmarillion or any book for that matter I apply my own interpretations you will have other interpretations and somebody else will have another interpretation and still others will try to act as purifiers interpreting exactly what they think the author had originally intended. But again just like when I listen to music or watch a TV show.... I'm seeing this from my perspective I'm not worried in the least what the original intentions of the artist is because I am The interpreter for myself. Ultimately this narration and how you apply it and how you have presented it to us gives us a glimpse into your own mind. When presenting a narration also especially on these characters you have to realize that these characters would have their own personal motivation.... You have to view them as having their own mind even though they are the creation of JRR Tolkien.... So some of this stuff is better off left as a mystery in my opinion and trying to overanalyze every aspect of something ultimately you become like the proverbial person that is grasping for straws and looking for needles in haystacks. I'm sure you will either overanalyze my comment with an over analyzation response, laugh, or delete it. Hopefully you take it to heart as criticism. One can never gain anything or any true advancement if surrounded by Yes Men that always give you the desired answer that you seek. Have a wonderful day

[@GirlNextGondor]

Hey, Steve, I welcome sincere criticism and feedback, and I appreciate you taking the time to give your thoughts. I’m not “trying” to come across in any particular way, and I can’t do too much about my natural delivery style, but I don’t blame anyone who doesn’t enjoy my style of speaking or presenting. As you said, everyone is going to see a creation or work of art according to their own personality and perspective. Not everyone will enjoy every video, which seems to have been the case for you here. You give a lot of points about how you think I should be interpreting these stories, but the way I prefer to approach them is different from what you describe. I personally enjoy obsessive over-analysis, and I find exploring an author’s intent interesting, even if it’s not absolutely necessary to enjoy the art. That’s not the best or only way to engage with a work of art, but it’s the one I naturally gravitate to. My audience (which, as you note, is perhaps smaller than it could be!) tends to consist of people who also enjoy that style. By presenting the strongest argument for my interpretation that I can muster, I’m not trying to intimidate anyone into blindly agreeing with me. I was taught growing up that publicly stating your opinion implied accepting, and even welcoming, reactions, critiques, and disagreement. It would be redundant to fill every video with disclaimers that ‘this is just my opinion’ or ‘there are other ways to look at this issue’ - that should be apparent from the huge number of other Tolkien channels and videos on KZbin alone! I could adopt a softer style by stating my opinions more equivocally, but to do so just because I’m afraid of being perceived as intimidating or a know-it-all would feel disingenuous to me, so I wouldn’t be comfortable doing that. Even though I don’t think I’m able to make most of the changes you suggested, I do appreciate that you offered your feedback. It gave me a good opportunity to reflect on the issues you raised and helped me clarify my own thinking on the subject.

[@jarrodcarver9001]

As you say, individuals can have completely different experiences and interpretations of the same thing. I personally find her narration, inflection, and reading of quotes quite pleasant and even relaxing. It's interesting how people can have such different perspectives and perceptions of things. Thankfully there is a diverse range of Tolkien youtubers out there that can appeal to a broad group. Thanks for the civil comment, it's a rarity on YT. 🙂

[@1inchfemur]

We'll tolkien was very catholic so free thinking independent creators being evil makes sense

[@catxborsuq1]

"He (Feanor) shut the doors of his house in the face of the mightiest of all the dwellers in Ea" is to me the funniest thing Tolkien ever wrote xD Just... the thought of a being second to God only standing at your door and you slamming your door in his face, I can't even imagine how Tolkien came up with that bit xD And what makes it even funnier is how casual Feanor is about it, it's his father that sends word to the Valar about Melkor being at their house, it makes it seem like Feanor considered this a normal occurrence xD

[@grassblock7668]

"GUYS MELKOR'S AT OUR DOOR HELP US!!" "Dad, relax, i told him to leave, we're fine" "You did what-"

[@ishmaelforester9825]

But it was 'a normal occurrence.' The Noldor are in Valinor and literally supping with the gods at that point. They're Elves not geezers. They fell out sometimes if not to the extent of Feanor telling them to bugger off. He doesn't curse Illuvatar, they swear the horrible oath by him

[@danepatterson8107]

You are such a great analyst. You have an incredible mind and an ability to communicate it. Love your work.

[@GirlNextGondor]

Thank you ☺ you're very kind. I'm so glad you're enjoying the channel!

[@Hablagrabla]

Seconded!

[@gideonnartey_]

I agree

[@lulubelle4850]

Agreed, plus the delivery is excellent-thank you for not using the wierd announcer/presenter delivery that ruins so many KZbinrs content.

[@docopoper]

This video got me thinking about how Tolkien's dislike of allegory fits with him generally depicting non-collaborative creation as negative. Treating his works as allegorical is actually going against one of the major themes of the work.

[@GirlNextGondor]

That's an interesting angle; that by trying to derive a single meaning or interpretation of a work you're actually limiting it, when good art should have multiple (though probably not infinite) possible significances. That does fit in really well with what is suggested about the Theme and creation in the books!

[@danielstride198]

I would, however, point out that the Teleri refused to even teach the Noldor to make their own ships, which while understandable (they think the Noldor are making a terrible mistake), is itself thematically questionable, in that they are paternalistically imposing their decision upon Feanor. "We don't think you should be able to create boats, because it will end badly for you" is arguably to seize creative power away for the victim's own good, which is several shades of problematic in Tolkien. I'd also argue that Melkor was creative in potential only. He wants to bring things into being, but never does, because he's too caught up in domination, so all he winds up doing is tainting and destroying... stuff like snow and steam being a reflection of Eru's "mine instrument", of course, but it's not deliberate Creation on the part of Melkor. Feanor does deliberately create in actuality, even if (as you point out) his vision of what it means to create is a bit warped and he too becomes destructive. Feanor might be considered simultaneously an Eru Writ Small and a Melkor Writ Small... the perfect embodiment of Arda Marred, as it were. (And there's arguably a thematic point behind Feanor having seven children, when Tolkien goes to such great lengths to emphasise Melkor's fundamental sterility). Really interesting video though. :)

[@GirlNextGondor]

I thought the point with Feanor seizing the ships had to do with his need for haste - a need exacerbated by his mistrust of his brother and his own terrible leadership. It wasn't that Feanor couldn't figure out how to make his own serviceable boats, it was that he needed boats right that second, and the Telerin swan ships, the peak of their craft, were available. And surely there's a distinction to be made between hoarding knowledge and having the right to determine who you share it with and when (though of course where that distinction falls will vary for everyone.) ...look at me, defending those filthy fish-eaters against the Absolute Rightness of the True High King. I disgust myself. That Melkor never did seem to get around to actually creating any of those oh-so-unique and speshul ideas he assures everyone he definitely has is an excellent, and very telling, point!

[@danielstride198]

​@@GirlNextGondor The Noldor were supposedly a bit lacking in the ability of shipbuilding: "For it would need great time and toil to build a great fleet, even if the Noldor had skill and timber in plenty for such craft, as indeed they had not." Time is definitely an explicit issue, but if the faint-hearted loiterers had offered to help with the skill problem, I wonder whether Feanor would have been OK with that, even if he couldn't borrow the swan-ships directly. I mean, it'd still take less time (and be less dangerous) than going via the Ice. As it was, Olwe wouldn't even help with the building out of deference to the Valar, which was really a red-rag to a bull at that point.

[@GirlNextGondor]

@@danielstride198 Here's the real acid test for the Teleri's ethical justifications (or lack thereof): their actions in the War of Wrath. In obedience to the Valar and out of sympathy to Elwing, they agree to man the ships bearing the hosts of the Vanyar and remaining Noldor to Beleriand. Yet they will not take part in the conflict or even set foot on Beleriand (despite the fact that the Teleri have the strongest connection to their ancestral home, and despite the fact that their own kindred are as embattled as the Noldor are.) Olwe, and his fellow droppers of vain tears into the thankless sea, can't have it both ways. If their motives in withholding their ships were truly those of sincere friendship and obedience to the Valar, then when the rest of the Eldar and the Valar themselves agree it's finally time to move openly against Morgoth, they should wholeheartedly support the undertaking, if not for the sake of the Noldor, then out of friendship to Ingwe and Finarfin, reverence for the Lords of the West, and solidarity with the people of Elwe and Cirdan. If, on the other hand, they were true pacifists, or perhaps believed that the sufferings of the Exiles were the natural consequences of their crimes and must not be interfered with for the sake of the Theme, then they should have continued in the way they began: refusing any participation. This tepid, halfhearted support speaks of nothing more than cowardice. Olwe simply can't stomach any kind of military action no matter how necessary, but he lacks the spine to openly oppose the Valar or even the united front of the Vanyar and Noldor. Elwing's plea provides a convenient excuse for him to cave to the pressure, but if he truly had concern for his brother's people he would surely have thrown his whole strength behind the war effort - indeed, one would have expected him to have joined in the general agitation against the Valar's frankly inexcusable indifference to Morgoth's ravishments long before this, were he not so clearly the cozened king of a deedless shadow-folk. In conclusion, Olwe can suck it; Vivat Spiritus Ignis.

[@ghostdreamer7272]

I don't think Feanor ever asked to learn... he just wanted the ships. And the Teleri only refused because they had already defied the Valar.

[@girliealmighty]

I think there are a lot of characters in the Silmarillion that fall into this trap of coming to their creative zenith, whether that’s based on their sheer drive to create just for its own sake, or to achieve a particular goal like protecting their people, they create something great and then meet their ends by loving it too much. Other than Feanor, I think of characters like Turgon and Thingol who got too attached to their material possessions or creations to the degree that they were willing to die for them rather than walk away. Whereas I think Tolkien can frame someone like Finrod as heroic since he was self sacrificing to the highest degree. It’s very Christian but the inception loop of creation adds another theological layer! Anyway thank you for the great video and incredible analysis!

[@GirlNextGondor]

Thank you very much! I love the complexity of both these characters, especially in how similar they are despite being mortal enemies. I 'd forgotten about Turgon - but he's certainly another example, with the added twist of him being unwilling to surrender *control*. Eol's no peach, but I think that Tolkien expresses the beginning of Turgon's fall in the ominous and disapproving description of Eol's execution. And you could think of Luthien as Thingol's Silmaril, his 'creation' that he'd rather keep locked away than risk falling into inferior hands.

[@lordofthehouseofstormcrows8615]

Fëanor was always so damned mad, that when he died his spirit burned up his body...now that's nuclear. Great job Mellon! Keep up the great work! A top analysis as always, A+

[@GirlNextGondor]

Thank you very much! Poor Feanor 😂 imagine being that furious

[@Valdagast]

0:55 Madness? THIS! IS! ANGBAND! Do you think the Silmarils have any innate power besides being beautiful? (I'm not talking here about their hallowing, which is made by an outside agent)

[@GirlNextGondor]

🤣🤣🤣 "So quoth Lungorthin, Lord of Balrogs, unto Hurin son of Galdor, and kicked him into a hole" I do suspect the Silmarils of having some powers, not all of them as benign as you might expect, but that's going to wait for another video.

[@ethanarnold4441]

This video was very fascinating, but the title "The Sin of Creation" doesn't make sense to me. Creating something isn't intrinsically sinful.

[@GirlNextGondor]

I see what you're saying - and I think in this case the title's clarity suffered for the sake of concision; it's tricky sometimes to distill an idea down into a few words that give an idea of a video's subject while still sounding interesting. By 'sin of creation' I didn't mean to assert that all creation was inherently wrong - certainly that's not the case in Middle-earth, which is itself an ongoing creation that pretty much all the characters contribute to. I more meant to suggest that, just as there are misdirected or 'sinful' ways to express a variety of good or neutral impulses - fear, love, pride, pity, etc. - so too there was a way for an act of creation, in itself, to be a catalyst for moral decay. What I argue in the video is that Melkor and Feanor begin to 'fall' not because of pride, spite, or avarice - those come afterward - but because of their drive *to create* new and original things.

[@jaytucker7873]

Nah, I'm gonna have to smash that like button like how I imagine a fist fight to go between Melkor and Fëanor :) Great video! Did you up your editing skills AGAIN? Cause those were some pretty slick transitions!

[@GirlNextGondor]

So much suffering might have been avoided if they had just been locked in the octagon in Lorien Square Garden together 🤣

[@Glorfindel_117]

I wish it didnt, but this reminds me of the amazon show. Their ravenous need to 'create the story Tolkien never told' and to 'amend the ones he did' is the very proof of their evil. Great video though, disconnected from such allegory!

[@GirlNextGondor]

I think Feanor and Melkor demonstrate that ambition isn't necessarily a bad thing... as long as it's tempered by humility and generosity of spirit (and a willingness to play by the established rules) 😅

[@sgtpaloogoo2811]

Pride. The root of all evil.

[@TheMinecraftHype]

Thou would DARE to compare mine father to the Dark Tyrant?! Thus our friendship comes to an end, beyond all courtesy, it shall never mend, but Feanor's legacy cannot undone: a beacon of righteousness, though unsung, shall light the path that thou shalt tread, until justice come for thy sorry head.

[@GirlNextGondor]

Well, as you've put in in rhymed couplets, I must, alas! assume you mean it. Fortunately, I had the foresight to prepare a plan B. Finrod will definitely accept my Froot Loop necklace as evidence of a binding vow to my House, and he'll only need to give me asylum for some 60-odd years (mortality turns out to be a gift, after all). Please do remember that your brothers' medication should be administered DAILY; we don't want any repeats of the unfortunate 'incidents' of the past. I've left extensive notes on your desk. Farewell, my king 😢

[@mtho_sibanda]

pride truly is the bane of humanity just as it is in all these stories.

[@thebrotherskrynn]

Love that today's video is about Feanor and Melkor two of my fav characters, this was such a delight to listen to Lexi! There is something to be said about being careful as a creative, if forged without a thought to sharing the beauty with others it becomes an act of narcissism as was the case of Feanor & Morgoth. Love that you highlighted how Feanor has become increasingly like Morgoth in nature. Kudos as always Lexi!

[@GirlNextGondor]

Thank you! I think your thoughts are right on the mark; even the most beautiful works are ultimately meant to be used for the sake of others and of creation generally. Becoming too possessive of your own creations seems to be a sure path to decay.

[@larsdejong7396]

This also plays into another theme we see all the time in the legendarium: that you cannot defeat evil with evil, and that any character trait can be corrupted, even by yourself. Great vid. Btw, this is the first time I actually watched one of your video's (I usually listen to them while working), and the high five with Feanor is awesome. XD

[@GirlNextGondor]

Aw, thank you! The Great Feanorian Bonfire was admittedly a little indulgent, but I love being able to end videos with something personalized 🤣 @MGCoco deserves the highest praise for bringing it to life. It's strange to me that, as meticulous as Tolkien was about demonstrating that any 'trait' can be used for good or evil ends, that he's often characterized as morally reductionist... but perhaps that's a topic for another video.

[@fofoleveon]

The Valar let Morgoth Wrecked havoc in Valinor and Middle Earth. It was foolish for Manwe to set Morgoth free and room around Valinor. Feanor is not a nomal Elf. Dude was born too much fire in his spirit. The death of his father, His beloved Silmarils we're stolen and dude wasn't already happy about his father taking another wife, and those lies of Morgoth ( That the Valar Begrudge middle earth to the elves so that men will rule it , Really convinced Feanor) All of this would have been avoided. Feanor and his sons was already bound to an Oath and there's no turning back from that.

[@JoeQuake]

"...Feanor bade them [his seven sons] halt; for his wounds were mortal, and he knew that his hour was come. And looking out from the slopes of Ered Wethrin with his last sight he beheld far off the peaks of Thangorodrim, mightiest of the towers of Middle-earth, and knew with the foreknowledge of death that no power of the Noldor would ever overthrow them; but he cursed the name of Morgoth thrice and laid it upon his sons to hold to their oath, and to avenge their father. Then he died..." The Silmarillion, Chapter 13, "Of the Return of the Noldor", by JRRT Alternate final words of Feanor: "My sons! I now know that no power of the Noldor will ever overthrow Morgoth Bauglir, and the Silmarils will never be recovered. And, in my last moment I relieve you of the vain oath you swore at my bidding. Farewell!" It could have been written this way. Feanor redeems himself in the end. We, the readers, would get the sense of relief that comes with redemption. But no. The character that could so easily be the great hero instead makes tragic decision after tragic decision right to his last breath. I used to be frustrated that Tolkien cheated us out of the character that should have been: "Feanor, Greatest Hero of the Noldor". After many readings, I've learned to love the story just the way it is. However, I still have somewhere in my mind the Feanor that could have been.

[@GirlNextGondor]

Even if he couldn't release his sons, a heartfelt apology or expression of regret would have gone a long way toward redeeming him into a tragic hero!

[@IanHeins]

Nice work thanks

[@HammerdownProtocol]

You've given me much to ponder, here. I've always entered into active collaboration with other artists, with reluctance, tinged with resentment. The endless quest for originality can be burdensome, and I'm yet to find a way to accommodate the input of others. Damn it, Lexi! Why did you make me question the egotistical motives behind my work?! Isn't bigger better, here?! 😂

[@GirlNextGondor]

🤣 remember, Tolkien wrote some version of this story into the Legendarium *over and over again;* while in principle he welcomed collaboration and reinterpretation, in practice he could issue quite harsh criticisms when others' interpretations did not align with his 'inner thought.' I suspect the reason he was so emphatic about the dangers in allowing one's creations to run away with one is because he struggled mightily with that very impulse. So you'd be in good company at least.

[@Glorfindel_117]

You know now the path before you. To plummet down into the Darkness and to become the next Dark Lord. Your life has lead you here, now reach out and create your legacy! Unleash yourself upon this flawed world!!!!

[@joseraulcapablanca8564]

Good stuff as ever GNG. Indeed Tolkien shows the importance to him of religion in his attitude to creation. For me it is difficult to see creativity as a sin, but he makes it understandable, something , which you too, do well.Thanks and keep up the good work.

[@zacklemay3543]

WOW. I love the First Age and you just BLEW MY MIND, truly the most thought provoking Tolkien piece I’ve ever listened to or read. This is my first time on your channel and you’ve brilliantly shown me just how richer my favourite author’s works are. Thank you 😱😱😱

[@GirlNextGondor]

Thank you! That's so cool to hear 🥰 I love those moments of finding some new angle on a favorite author or artist to explore. Glad you enjoyed!

[@TerezatheTeacher]

She's so clever and funny! I'm not even a huge fan of Tolkien (read LOTR and the Hobbit and only seen two films) but I love listening to these videos.

[@kevinrussell1144]

Good video. You wonder about Tolkien mentioning that making something (creativity) puts one closer to the fires of pride and the roots of evil. Recall the old maxim, you have to break eggs to make an omelet. Evil IS the marring of anything. Sitting passively and figuring out how something works is distinctly different than changing or destroying materials to make something else. Fashioning/fabricating anything involves change and thus is evil by definition. Note, too, that the seven deadly actions are not referred to as evils, but as sins. , The four principal ones are all baked into Melkor and Feanor, namely pride, greed, envy and wrath, and all are factors in disobedience to Eru, the original sin. Personally, I cut the Elf a bit more slack since he was born and turned out to be mortal, and whether he ACTUALLY ever saw the Big Guy is debatable. Melkor, however, was a part of the mind of Eru from before the appearance of Arda, and, in effect sat on his lap and was instructed in his gifts and duties. Was Melkor fated to be sinful and was steeped in potential and actual wickedness from day one?

[@char-leewiebe7199]

For some character, I would take the "desire to make things" to be more closely connected to PRIDE and vanity, both of which are more closely connected to the 7 Deadly Sins - pride, greed, lust, envy, gluttony, wrath, and sloth

[@jpbjoel]

I admit I started feeling sorry for Melkor when watching this video. After all, he had a share of each Vala’s capabilities… but he was best in none of these areas of specialization. (Except as you briefly mention, the ability to create a result that integrated multiple specialities.) I was going to compare this to a hypothetical frustrated Olympian who could win Silver in every event - but never a Gold. But then I remembered there are events that test a breadth of skills, with the decathlon being the best-known example. So, this made me go back to my previous view of Melkor: the most extreme example of a selfish child - who, being the first thing created by his father, starts having an eternal temper tantrum when his father shows that he wants to create another being besides Melkor. I do believe that Melkor would be happiest if Eru destroyed all creation but him, and said “Melkor, you are ALL that I need.” As to the creative sin you mention, I agree with all you say - while at the same time wishing that Melkor and Feanor were designed in a way that a summary of “full of themselves; don’t initiate or tolerate play with others” didn’t so significantly summarize them. I will stop here and go back to singing a song using one of Tolkien’s original names for Morgoth “We don’t talk about Melko…”

[@GirlNextGondor]

You've hit on one of the things I find so intriguing about these characters - they're not *wholly* unsympathetic in the beginning; the reasons they have for being frustrated with their lot do make a bit of sense. But it's also clear that the majority of their suffering stems from their own shortsightedness. Encanto is a movie begging to be made into Tolkien memes 🤣 Some Elf freshly arrived to Aman: So who is this brother of yours I keep hearing about, does he have something to do with the guy who kept kidnapping us or -- Valar, in Unison: WE DON'T TALK ABOUT MELKOOOOO... (meaningful pause) Nessa: BUT! - it was my WEDDING DAY Tulkas, in the background: It was our wedding day...

[@jpbjoel]

@@GirlNextGondor Given that Tulkas fell asleep on his wedding night, after the feast, Nessa learned pretty quickly what married life was going to be like with the so-called 'strongest' of the Valar.

[@wolfsbanealphas617]

So the devil has daddy issues

[@grassblock7668]

@@GirlNextGondor Which is probably why fans are still able to like them, if the concept is interesting even the worst person in an entire fictional universe could be liked by the audience.

[@grassblock7668]

Was he the first one Eru created? I don't recall reading that in the Silm, i recall reading he had the most knowledge and was the strongest. Also, he essentially got mad because he got told he couldn't create his own stuff, which makes you feel kinda bad for him at first. Buuuut then you remember he wanted to create stuff because he wanted to dominate his creations and make them do exactly what he wanted (which makes sense considering Eru does that, but since Eru's got other personality traits he's not fully evil like his "kid", since Eru created everything, we could also argue he is everything, and therefore, is also evil, and also good). Makes sense he turned out that way if you think about it, all the great characteristics he had (determination, charisma, creativity, intellect) turned into bad ones (ruthlessness, manipulation, lies etc) due to the fact that he had no other traits to keep those under control, the Ainur were born with "set up" personalities, which wasn't that big of a problem for most Ainur, since most of them turned out fine, but for Melkor? Yeah he kinda went wrong. Which is why Aule is essentially the better version of Melkor: he had the humility to ask Eru for forgiveness and wanted to create life so he could watch it grow and teach them stuff, not control them. At the end of the day nor Melkor nor anyone was given an actual choice of being good or evil, Eru decided how everything was gonna play out and here we are. That doesn't really justify him tho (nor any character that does bad stuff), he's pretty darn proud of the atrocities he commits and is certain he broke free of Eru's will, but ironically he broke free of it in the first place probably cuz Eru allowed it.

[@rebeuhsin6410]

Tolkien loved creation, but heated the creation of devices and machines. He very rarely approved of created objects and almost never machines. Special objects were almost inevitable not all good, often just evil. Strangely special weapons are sometimes not treacherous.

[@tabby_cat]

I wonder if some of these great creators' problems were caused by the fact that they took themselves way too seriously. They did not stop and laugh off the minor inconveniences, which would leave their mind more clear and unburdened to face their greater tasks and problems. I was thinking of Tom Bombadil, and how he's always cheerful. He even makes the One Ring disappear for a moment with a laugh. These sorts of things don't affect him at all. Hobbits also are very simple and joyful people, and they are resistant to the corruption of power. Joy and laughter is a release of tension, something which endless thoughts and ideas bouncing off each other can create. And sometimes a fight with someone can be dissolved if you both realise suddenly how petty and silly you're both being and burst out in fits of giggles. I reckon that if Feanor used his massive intellect to examine his own mind, he would immediately notice ongoing cycles and patterns in his thoughts and chuckle "oh... there I go again, hehe," when things start getting a little heated. But then if everyone started doing that, there wouldn't be tragic heroes and all the great stories they create.

[@st.anselmsfire3547]

I wonder if Tolkien was kind of referencing creative types who don't share, or don't acknowledge the contributions of others.

[@fubaralakbar6800]

I liked Feanor, and I agreed with his attitude toward the Valar, but I lost respect for him when made the oath with his sons.

[@GirlNextGondor]

I think that's definitely his turning point - when he decides that his fury and self-righteousness are so overpowering that there's no possible scenario in which following such an oath would not be justified, and then allows his own children to get entangled in it as well.

[@nolerin]

I disagree. The act of creating of original ideas or things is something attributed to good. Evil cannot create only mock and twist what is already made. Melkor never really made anything. feanor may have been proud and made evil choices but in his beginning was not evil

[@ryanratchford2530]

Even the dwarves who craft fall into the trap of living the things they make with their own hands too much which brings about the wraith of the dragons.

[@GirlNextGondor]

Any association with or patronage by Aule really does seem to inevitably lead to a fall 😅

[@brendanmooney7607]

Thanks for crystallizing some of my amorphous feelings about the parallels between Melkor and Fëanor, and also (as always) giving me some new insights to consider... Ima strike that like button the way the sons of Fëanor swear to strike down anyone who withholds the Silmarils!

[@GirlNextGondor]

Strike true! 🤣 The parallels between these two have nagged at me as well; it was only when I really sat down to think about them that I realized just how many traits Melkor and Feanor share. Not just their characters, but the specific points of their character arcs (or perhaps we should call it a 'character downward spiral?), which are less obviously similar but seem to stem from parallel motives. Really glad to have given others some food for thought; I think the topic deserves exploring from a bunch of angles.

[@UncleFester84]

I'm going to start calling Feanor "Mini-Melkor"

[@keyboarddancers7751]

Outstanding analysis. You preserve an appropriate reverence for the source material whilst conveying such enlightening academic wit. Feels like doing calculus whilst relaxing in a scented bath!🤩👍🙂

[@GirlNextGondor]

I am very happy to report that I have never done calculus in a relaxing scented bath 🤣🤣 but I imagine the experience would be at least somewhat enjoyable, especially for the quantitatively gifted, so thank you for your comment and for that excellent simile!

[@TolkienLorePodcast]

Fantastic analysis as always. I think I always guessed creativity and pride we’re connected, but you brought together all the elements that explain why.

[@magiv4205]

Damn, not only have you given me an amazing anslysis of some of the most important villains in the whole Legendarium, you also made me question my own beliefs about my art and what it means to create. I definitely didn't expect a callout from this, but I'm listening. What a fantastic video, you earned a sub!

[@GirlNextGondor]

If it helps, I think these parallels were evidence of Tolkien struggling with his own issues about creativity and his attitudes toward his work 🤣 It definitely gave me food for thought on how I approach art. So you're certainly not alone! Thanks for the sub and I hope you enjoy the upcoming videos!

[@magiv4205]

@@GirlNextGondor I think this video hit me especially hard because since childhood, I've been someone with a broad set of talents, not just concerning art. I've always been the kid with the "gifted" label slapped onto them, and I not only enjoyed the compliments and attention, I also pretty much defined myself through my skills - linguistics, music, any kind of art or craft, you name it. It was only in my late teens that I started to realize how much of a double-edged blade such "talent" can be. Because at some point you realize that talent is just a starting boon, and won't carry you to greatness. It's also very likely that someone like me will never be as great at a single skill as someone who dedicates their whole life to one thing. I'd consider myself a very friendly and mellow kid that can get along with pretty much everyone, and jealousy was a thing I never even knew. When others acted out of jealousy, I thought they were ridiculous. But in my late teens, I had this school friend who was practicing her art every day and slowly but surely creating masterpieces that would take me great time and incredible effort to even hope to match. She was actually getting better than me. That was the first time in my life I felt real jealousy. She and I were some of the best friends then, but man, I'm ashamed to admit I developed a bit of an inferiority complex. Instead of being happy for her and getting on my own grind so we could continuously become better together (which we had done for a while and it was great!), I grew bitter and lost alot of the joy I had for my art. My whole life, I had defined myself solely through my talents, and my family, status-driven and concerned with outward appearance as they were, had always pushed and affirmed me in this notion - probably not even realizing how much damage they were doing. Now, not only was this the first time I felt jealousy, I felt like an utter _failure._ When you define all your worth through your creations and deeds, what do you do if those things are suddenly taken away from you? What do you have left when all of your desire to create, to find and wield this Flame Imperishable, turns out to merely create inferior, soulless variants of something someone already did better, because nothing you create is ever really wholly original? Yeah, I get why Fëanor was so angry. And, on some level... I even get why Melkor grew so hateful. That friend and I eventually drifted apart, and this was not the only reason, but it was a notable one. I'm much wiser now than I was then, but just from an artist's perspective, this video showed me a dark side to creation that I had never really considered before, but that is also incredibly relatable. These villains are hateful and spiteful in a way I could never be (that much I know myself), but the very core of them is still so painfully _human._ A great cautionary tale of what can happen when you let those childish, selfish instincts get the better of you. Nowadays, when my siblings create beautiful art and can even sell some of it, I truly feel incredibly proud of them. Even if I currently don't dedicate nearly as much time to my hobbies as I would like to, I'm still at a point I'm at least content with. I've always appreciated working with others, but at least when it comes to hobbies, I've often been in the role of a teacher - in the sense that people would come to me for advice or I would help them with their part. And I really like this role. Without arrogance, I like making others smile when something suddenly just clicks for them. That joy is infectious. Even with something as mundane as homework. I always loved having younger siblings and children of family friends that I could help or teach. Or nowadays, helping a work colleague get the hang of something or show the new guy the ropes. I love being a teacher. But at the same time, I think it's also time that I truly embrace the beauty of being a student. In many ways, it's so much less stressful, because for once, you can just absorb and learn without the pressure of having to be better than your teacher. It can be just as, if not more rewarding. It allows me to simply become an empty vessel, letting knowledge and creation flow into and through me. No matter what role we're currently in though, I think it's important that we all remember the core message of your video, and what I believe Tolkien wanted to tell us: not just art, but life itself is collaborative. And if we combine our knowledge, wisdom, skill and passion, we are capable of doing and making things that we never even dreamed of before. It's an incredibly hopeful sentiment, and thanks to you putting it into word like this, all of us who heard you have become just a little bit wiser for it.

[@TerezatheTeacher]

Terminally inflated heads 😄 Again, a beautiful, clever and funny analysis. Be careful, creative as you are, you might end up evil! 🙃

[@GirlNextGondor]

In place of a Dark Lord you would have a Queen! ALL SHALL BRING ME PEANUT BUTTER EGGS AND DESPAIR! 🤣 Glad you enjoyed the video 💖

[@kevinmichaelbergman8276]

Melkor was the good ones