Mellotron M400 & M4000D mini | Sound comparison

[@TheRooick]

The original one has a lot more character. And it sounds even better if you hear it being played live. How the sound resonates inside the M400 is just magical. :)

[@Flibbybibby]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/p36kXnuchbJ9idE

[@edsknife]

It either sounds like Genesis or really old movie soundtracks; what a lost sound.

[@kjh789az]

Thanks for this comparison. The original has a magical quality, but the mini is more practical for gigging. I'm hypnotized by both!

[@Kafrifelle]

The M 400 is so imperfect that it is perfect.

[@Apizzaslice]

I can literally hear the age in the M400 :O

[@watmun]

They actually sound really nice together!

[@beanotraffini681]

Also, factor in the the (vastly) superior sonic flexibility of the M4000D (mixed tape banks, portability, etc.), and it's pretty much a no-brainer for the gigging musician...

[@davidnoel4597]

No comparison. as someone who has actually had a real Mellotron, it is impossible to imitate the original. The original Mellotrons are literally living machines. They are like enchanted trees. Supernatural.

[@allrequiredfields]

You're not wrong, but it's about 85-90% there, and that's definitely enough to put a smile on my face.

[@edhartman5466]

So nicely said!

[@thevinmeister5015]

The thing that makes the M400 distinct is its inconcistency which is what the M4000D seems to be lacking.

[@beanotraffini681]

As an owner of an original M400 and an M4000D mini, I can assure you that the M4000D mini can be "configured" to sound remarkably close (exactly?) like the originals (which varied considerably...)!

[@mickeythompson9537]

_Tristan_ on Mellotron... fantastic!

[@tapesnkeys]

Thank you :-)

[@JohnLRice]

Interesting, thanks for the comparison. I'm quite surprised though at how dull/muffled your M4000D sounds! I have a M4000D Rack and Micro and they don't sound like that to me, but unfortunately I don't have a tape Chamberlin or Mellotron to compare them to! ;-) I usually just leave mine in the MkII character setting. And I will often EQ (on the external mixer) to taste, sometimes I want a fuller sound, sometimes a thinner/crisper sound.

[@san5a89]

flutes are better in the old one. but the cello sound has improved a lot....

[@KilroyWasHere83]

I've only seen the flute part so far, so I can't speak for the other sounds, but as you got higher on the keyboards, they sounded more identical.

[@mellotrongurl8275]

I noticed that as well! The top octave sounded identical through my Audio-Technica ATHM50's! For the other octaves it was hit or miss for the notes to sound EXACT. I think Markus did a fine job with these digital Mellotrons.

[@dannybrazen]

great demo! this is the ONLY video i've found online that makes the m4000d sound bad, and thats only because its up against a machine worth probably around $10k (...and it still doesn't sound THAT bad!) great to hear it against the real thing though. the main thing that surprised me was how much brighter the original was; i thought the new model would be bright and crisp, and the old model dull and worn, but it was the other way around! a bit of top-end eq could easily pull that back into shape though

[@wadecooler7496]

The m400 sounds so much better

[@pierre-olivierturmel1705]

I have the same set-up (M400 & M4000d) and liked both of them. The differences are little as far as I'm concerned. The M400 sound more compressed and a little brighter. Don't forget, each M400 are unique contrary to the M4000d line wich are more standarized machines. I tried the same test with mines and taught little differences. I think your test result will be very different if you did it blinfolded. Markus did a wonderful job with those machines. The only default of those digital Tron are maybe they sound too perfect!

[@tapesnkeys]

I also think that the M4000D is an absolutely impressive machine! I love it very much and they did a wonderful job. I made another video in which I compare the 3 Strings of the M4000D and the M400: kzbin.info/www/bejne/p36kXnuchbJ9idE

[@mellotrongurl8275]

I agree with you 100%. With my Audio-Technica ATHM50's on, I could barely hear any differences, especially in the higher ranges. Not enough to Make a difference recording in the studio. Markus did a fantastic job on the digital machines without a doubt! :)

[@bobmander7886]

@@tapesnkeys "The M4000D mini is set to M400e (used tapes)..." No wonder it sounds a bit dull to me and several others commenting here. Adjusting this parameter can make a big difference in the sound. I have my M4000D rack mount module set to MkII instead of M400e and it sounds quite different [much better to me] than the one being demoed here. But you are right: this is a fantastic machine.

[@bobmander7886]

@@tapesnkeys Also make sure you have the latest firmware as the last firmware update made a huge difference in the sound.

[@32ndBrother]

The mechanical flywheel in the original gives it almost a kind of Leslie quality

[@LuciferianStrings]

It mostly sounds the same, the digital loop is just a digital sample of the old one probably. It's just that the old one has certain quirks about it that might or might not create a better sound depending on the occasion, the old has a limit to its loop and can do a nice effect while its running out and there is a little bit of inconistency in the loop do to it being a physical tape running. While the digital version along with the countless quality of life, ease of transportation, and much less required maintnence also has more sample options, an infinite loop, and a high and low switch. If you closed your eyes and tried to hear out which one it was you wont get it right 100% of the time. The M4000D is a better instrument as it fufills its porpuse much better in almost every regard but the M400 is more unique and has its own personal quirks and kinks and give it a certain charm, although mostly only more to those playing it. And you also need to remember you're watching this through a digital medium so its not really the full picture with all its subleties.

[@Flibbybibby]

Pinkerton Wrong the M4000D also only has an 8 second loop limit. And the M4000D can be tweaked to have motor speeds and wow and flutter like the analog Mellotron.

[@Flibbybibby]

Pinkerton kzbin.info/www/bejne/p36kXnuchbJ9idE

[@MothershipOracle]

when you tweak the MELLOTRON MINI 4000D in the "sound settings" (press the select A and select B knobs down at the same time, you can access the menus) , you can infact make the TRON sound old and warbly/woody, just like the original MELLOTRON 400 did, after bands would take it on the road for a while, when the tapes began to warble a bit, after the tron had been in heated areas onstage etc.... lovely old sound ofcourse. So it does make the MINI sound closer to the original 400.

[@PietroTaucher]

Great job, the 400 has a lot of "character" but I prefer the 4000 for recording or live. Also I found the 4000 "tapes" more clean compared to yours and with more harmonics and colours. Thanks a lot for this comparison

[@bobmander7886]

"The M4000D mini is set to M400e (used tapes)..." No wonder it sounds dull in this comparison. Adjusting this parameter can make a big difference in the sound. I have my M4000D rack mount module set to MkII instead of M400e and it sounds quite different than the one being demoed here. And the last firmware update made a huge difference in the sound. I absolutely love it.

[@pinstripedclips]

The M4000D sounds too clean and perfect. Note the actual mellotron sounds have a more distinctive character to it. The machine itself influences the sound. Hitting the key hard compared with soft, key click etc etc. Then there's the influence of 4 or so generations of tape copying before the sounds make it to the mellotron. The M4000D's master tape to digital (then edited) misses so much out of what makes the mellotron what it is. In saying all that, it's still a cool thing, just not as cool as a mellotron. The price is ridiculous though.

[@wouterdeheus3626]

I agree about the price.

[@Flibbybibby]

Wouter de Heus kzbin.info/www/bejne/p36kXnuchbJ9idE

[@allrequiredfields]

Yeah, my ears can't handle how out of tune the real ones always are. It would drive me mad. This one here is probably kept in good working order and it was still shockingly off pitch for almost every single key.

[@andy5178]

Just one word: Memotron, the actual Mellotron heir.

[@mintegral1719]

@@allrequiredfields some of us like that about it!

[@jukingeo]

For the flute sound, I like how he did the individual keys, but he didn't do this with the string sounds. For the flute, the lower notes sound better on the M4000, but getting to the middle and higher up, the 400 sounds better and smoother. For chords, the 400 wins. For the triple string sounds...I was surprised to hear the 400 sound rather harsh and grating with the M4000 being much smoother. The Cello was harder as it sounds more full on the 400, but with chords, more uniform on the 4000. One thing though, the 'detail' on the lower end of the M4000 is way exaggerated and it seems like the unit is "farting out". If I had to pick overall, the M400 wins. Taking price into consideration as well, I was shocked to hear how much the M4000D is going for. $2800?!?! No way, that is ridiculous. I can see $1800 for that piece though. $1200 to $1500, even better.

[@markstevenson2897]

I previously owned one of the early versions of the M4000D, and have since purchased the German Memotron, which in my opinion has superior, string, flute and choir samples, and also some great analogue organ sounds. For the purists, who have been lucky enough to own a MK2 or an M400, then I suspect that the digital versions would not a viable substitute.

[@bobmander7886]

"The M4000D mini is set to M400e (used tapes)..." No wonder it sounds dull. Adjusting this parameter can make a big difference in the sound which is probably why these two sound so different. I have my M4000D rack mount module set to MkII instead of M400e and it sounds quite different than the one being demoed here. The MkII setting is still not 100% exactly like a genuine tape machine version but certainly close enough. And to me it sounds much closer than the M400e setting! Besides, how many people still play live with a real vintage MkII? But a little carefully adjusted EQ and a Lexicon plate reverb (with a drop of tape delay) certainly goes a long way to liven up the sound and keep me satisfied. The blend of 3 Violins and Brass makes for a faithful reproduction of the "Watcher of the Skies" introduction which was originally done on a Mellotron Mk II. And the 8va Choir sounds pretty ethereal and hypnotic as I can recall from the early 70's. If you have one of these Digital Mellotrons by all means play with this setting as it will produce different sounding results. You'll be pleasantly surprised and glad that you did.

[@deanedgx]

on the flute sound the 4000d sounds like it has a bit of amp and filter envelope attack dialled in on some keys.

[@RedSquirrelRecords]

I may be totally wrong, but the tape hiss is what is adding more character to the real Mellotron in my opinion. Are the digital Mellotrons not sampled from the original source and not from a Mellotron tape head ?

[@tapesnkeys]

No, I think you’re quite right! I noticed the same. The sounds is a little more saturated and imperfect. The M4000D sounds are - as far as I know - sampled from the original master tapes, which are cleaner than the tapes put in the old Mellotrons.

[@pierreb6637]

Very useful demo: IMO the Mini has less dynamics, but it is available, and could be corrected by pushing up some trebble and even an Dynamics Expander (inverse of a Compressor) !

[@KevinCordova]

I guess i preffer the new one, cause the sound is lower, warm, and still sounds vintage, i think that works better to play with band.

[@abwdoc]

They both sound great…but do sound somewhat different. The M4000D seems to have more uniformity between keys, which is not quite as realistic as the M400,…but in the studio, you might appreciate it’s sound being a little “tighter”, if that makes sense. The new M4000’s are brilliant, being vastly more stable and roadworthy. They may lack a tiny bit of the M400’s instability and output differences between keys. Who knows…being digital, it might be possible to add that feature to the M4000 line, just as Dave Smith added “vintage” to the DSI/Seqential reissues to make them sound a little more vintage with a variable pot on the panel.

[@robappleby583]

The comments here are comedy gold.

[@aadbehage6095]

Hi, I like your comparison vids a lot, but..... I think, looking at the Mini, You compare the "M400 flutes" with the "M400 Bass Flutes" from the Mini. the "Mellotron MK2 Flute" sound from the Mini, comes much closer to your "M400 flutes" you have on tape. Listen to the highest playable D notes on both instruments and you'll find exact the same caracteristics there. All the best, Aad

[@tapesnkeys]

Thanks for your help 👍😊 I will check it and make another video. All the best to you, too 💛🎹

[@beanotraffini681]

Sounds like the pitch control is a bit flat on the M4000D

[@matteoprog2298]

The original 400 is inimitable

[@ellrucker494]

Im a fan of the real mellotron. although i dont have funds for either mellotrons in the vid. The closest i found to the orignal is a vst plugin called Mtron-pro with all imperfections.

[@tapesnkeys]

Or try Super Manetron for iOS, it‘s very convincing and affordable 😊

[@rays7805]

The levels aren't quite matched, but... I hear a few things. There seem to be more overtones and a higher noise floor on the original Mellotron. I wonder if part of this comes from filtering on the digital Mellotron. But I also wonder if some of it comes from the digital Mellotron going through fewer analog stages, including fewer generations, leading to less saturation. And yet, there are some sounds where the M400 sounds cleaner and purer. The company could have taken more care to capture the character of the original instrument. Even if the original instrument had a lot of variation from unit to unit, I'd be kind of surprised if there were this much less character on an instrument that the company used as a reference. I think a lot of the digital samples probably came from earlier generation tapes, although with the couple that sounded duller, I wonder.

[@Czyszy]

The way the sound wobbles when multiple notes are played is not there in the digital emulation. ;-;

[@yutux]

digital Mellotron is duller and undefined, I like the analog version

[@tapesnkeys]

Me too :-) But you can always add some wow and flutter and/or distortion with plugins.

[@bobmander7886]

"The M4000D mini is set to M400e (used tapes)..." No wonder it sounds dull. Adjusting this parameter can make a big difference in the sound. I have my M4000D rack mount module set to MkII instead of M400e and it sounds quite different than the one being demoed here. Also make sure you have the latest firmware as the last firmware update made a huge difference in the sound.

[@kanekitchen]

Bob Mander yeah I set mine to mkII and it sounds a lot different

[@teelurizzo8542]

The one in the bottom seems to have brighter tone

[@MENTIONED_YOU]

The original for me. the mini sounds like a sample player

[@gevansmd1]

The D is clearner than the M, probably becaused of the tape flutter on the M.

[@pvillez]

Incredible. The 4000D is really dull in comparison. Was the tone control turned down in this video? Something doesn’t add up. If you recorded those tapes at a good resolution they would not sound that dull. There is a frequency range of 6 to 12 k missing in the digital version

[@Flibbybibby]

pvillez There is a world of tweaking and settings to finesse in the M4000D which are not utilized very well in this vid.

[@Flibbybibby]

pvillez Also the OP has the setting to 400e on the M4000D. So it really is an apples to oranges comparison... but, that won’t stop many from presuming they grasp the magic of this phenomenal modern realization of this timeless, and amazing machine. I have both and it’s their loss.

[@Flibbybibby]

pvillez kzbin.info/www/bejne/p36kXnuchbJ9idE

[@ericpottersadventuresinsou1146]

it appears he has the tone control at 12 o'clock. perhaps that is considered 'flat'? i don't know officially, but on mine i often keep the tone fully clockwise to get the full range, more of the tape artifacts, weird overtones, etc. i think of it like the tone control on an electric guitar, or a low-pass filter - i only dial it back when i want to get more murky. it may be a different style of tone circuit than the M400.

[@MatsUnden]

Perhaps the ’tone’ control is actually a 12db low pass filter? As with the Manikin Memotron.

[@kevinputry5655]

Why no choir comparison?

[@tapesnkeys]

Because I only own the tape frame with 3 Strings, Cello and Flute, so there is unfortunately nothing to compare.

[@beanotraffini681]

Not a completely fair or accurate comparison, as we don't know what the volume output on the digital M4000D for the various "patches, do we?

[@gasolineandwine]

I find it weird that the mini sounds so dark.

[@stargate1555]

The M400 was a premier and unique instrument in it's day. Thankfully technology doesn't go backwards. Interestingly, the M4000D can be tweaked to "sound" like it's predecessors. The older model Mellotron tapes age and tear, tape heads need to be constantly cleaned, springs lose their recoil ability, and switching out racks must have been a time consuming pain. Robert Fripp of King Crimson called their Mellotron the "black bitch" due to it's unreliability playing live and the constant breakdowns when on the road. Jump on the grenade and get the M4000D. I did. You won't be sorry. Regarding the sound cards........in order of preference.......sound card 02 and 05 are must haves. Sound cards 03-04-06 have their moments priority wise but a lot of the sounds are dull, ancient, and are not keyboard note responsive and unusable for a performance. Just my 2¢.

[@skeletonarchives9321]

nothing can touch the original sound.

[@DiegoLeanza]

sound different :/ analog vs digital.. m400 is brighter and very organic

[@tapesnkeys]

Thank you Diego Leanza! Yes, but I try to readjust the digital one, so maybe there is a chance to sound it more like the real thing. Maybe my M400 is too bright, I don't know. As I figured out, the MK2 and Chamberlin sounds of the M4000D are much brighter than the M400 samples. I try to make an other video within the next couple of days.

[@y_j909]

arturia..!!

[@layzer80]

the 4000 lacks the definition of the 400

[@lovingpeace9715]

Might as well just use the Arturia vst. The original M400 sounds the best warts and all.

[@ppbowers]

The 400's "voice or sound" is much more authentic.. like a person singing that smokes..real guteral.. The 4000 sound too polished, perfect.. and not as much character..as has been mentioned.. The 400 all the way!!!

[@dr.estevarena4143]

The new is less of life. Analog tapes are better in this case.

[@learnmusic488]

I hear a GIGANTIC Difference.. And NOT in Favor of the ‘digital’... Unless this guy didn’t properly try to match the sounds..

[@tapesnkeys]

I did...

[@learnmusic488]

@@tapesnkeys cool, yeah, I heard that the digital was indistinguishable from the original, but seeing/hearing this video, it’s not.. thx agn

[@caupolicanvg]

memotron creo suena mejor

[@hejsel7360]

M4000d, if you need many sounds. M400, if you need better sound.

[@VinylLS.]

The old one sounds much better

[@Flibbybibby]

VinylL S. Yeah ok... Sit with a 400D and see if you feel the same. 😉👍

[@Flibbybibby]

Legolam The guy obviously has never explored the internal settings that are absolutely brilliant and can be adjusted to be indistinguishable to the original.

[@Flibbybibby]

@Legolam You keep repeating the same nonsense on every m4000 vid about passing through blah blah blah. fyi the M4000D samples are not “heavily doctored” so stop beating that dead horse, it has no legs to stand on and Streetly really needs to stop payment on your shilling for them. The sound of a mellotron is FAR MORE than JUST those recordings passing through a machines electronics... it is huge in part those original recordings and all their innate characteristics. And the fact of the matter is there are various ways to add WOW & FLUTTER, etc to the M4000d in spite of it not passing through an original analog machines mechanisms. Those specific characteristics you keep championing are not exclusively provided by that. So who cares if the sounds on the M4000d never passed through an original analog Mellotron machine. King Crimson, the Moody Blues, etc did a lot of studio trickery, amp and mic setups, layering and overdubbing to create those peculiar and innovative sounds from their respected machines for their own epic albums.

[@Flibbybibby]

@Legolam And by the way those other sample sets that you can get on VSTs etc are just samples of that particular machine’s sound they sampled from. But to each their own.

[@vicosdivicos]

Mini sounds less good

[@massimomarchesin8708]

Il Mellotron M400 è migliore come suono rispetto al Mellotron 4000 D .il sound del mellotron M 400 è più aperto e più scolpito rispetto al 4000 D !!!! Quindi lo preferisco !!!!! Certo se invece compariamo il Mellotron Mk 2 e l M 400 è una bella gara non saprei ,sono due Mellotrons fantastici è dura scegliere ed anche i modelli Chamberlin lo sono altrettanto !!!!

[@sergeychigarev255]

Compare two real Mellotrons, please!

[@tapesnkeys]

THAT could be a problem 🤣 I’ve only got the one you’ve just seen , I don’t know an other one so far.

[@BarnacleButtock]

Sucks that it's not at all accurate for the frankly outrageous price. A glorified VST in a plastic case. But I bet you can get it closer with a zoom CDR

[@ericpottersadventuresinsou1146]

your has a plastic case? did you make your own?