Mellotron M4000D Rack

A quick random noodling through the default sounds of awesome Mellotron M4000D Rack from www.mellotron.com/ There are also two keyboard versions of this instrument and I purchased mine from www.bigcitymusi...
This is a digital sample playback unit designed to recreate the sound of the Chamberlin and Mellotron magnetic tape sample playing instruments that were originally invented by Harry Chamberlin in the USA during the late 1940's / early 1950's and later modified by the Bradly Brothers in the UK, (now Streetly Electronics) whose Mellotron version became greatly popularized by and an important part of many of the biggest rock bands of the 1970's like The Rolling Stones, Yes, David Bowie and Genesis to name a few.
EDIT: I recently realized that the Mellotron company has a SoundCloud account and they have a lot of examples of their available sounds, check it out! / mellotronfactory
Read more at the following links:
en.wikipedia.o...
en.wikipedia.o...
Thanks for watching, rating and commenting! :-)
Show some love if you can? :-)
www.buymeacoff...

[@tripzville7569]

Stunning sounds. We are truly blessed as creators to have such things at our fingertips.

[@JohnLRice]

Indeed, we have such miraculous instruments and ways to record them these days and at relatively inexpensive prices, compared to the '60's and '70's! Hey, if you like Mellotron sounds and have an iPhone or iPad (or maybe an Android device?) there are Mellotron apps that are around $5 to $20 or so that sound really great! They don't have 100 different sounds like the M4000D and playing them from a phone or pad leaves a lot to be desired but they have a nice selection and usually all of the classic sounds like flute, strings, and choir, etc. Check out the Mellotronics Streetlytron apps and the ones from the Mellotron Factory.

[@neutralearth1061]

Random noodling on a Mellotron. Life is good. So many great sounds! We love Mellotron!

[@JohnLRice]

Indeed! 🥰

[@Tuurke01]

For me...nothing beats the choir- and orchestral sounds!!!!!

[@JohnLRice]

Agreed, and thanks for watching and commenting! 🙂

[@Sarahbuildsstepsequencers]

Worth its weight in gold, John! I soon realized there was no noting the ‘standouts.’ So fun! A couple of songs that came to mind were The Beatles’ “Got To Get You Into My Life” and, Judy Collins’ “Send In The Clowns.” But so many others! Thank you for sharing! This actually prompted me to do a price check! 😉

[@JohnLRice]

Thanks Sarah! I don't remember specifically playing those songs you mentioned but I wouldn't be surprised!

[@AriannaCunningham]

I recently found this today, and I really like the built-in mellotron sounds that came with the Sound Card 01 rack, particularly the Chamberlin Sounds since they sound more realistic than the Mellotron ones.

[@JohnLRice]

Thanks for watching and commenting, Arianna! I also tend to prefer the Chamberlin sounds. I found it interesting that the album The Seventh Sojourn by The Moody Blues was long my favorite album by them (Days Of Future Past is a close second) and I really loved what I thought was Mellotron on the album, but it turns out that on that album a majority of the "Mellotron" sounds were actually played on a Chamberlin! :-)

[@Pacer416]

I have this unit. It's FANTASTIC!!! I own Many Vintage Synths, but I would take this unit over a Vintage Mellotron. Great Job John!!!

[@JohnLRice]

Thanks much, Benny! :-) Yes, it's a fantastic sounding unit indeed! Do you have any of the expansion cards?

[@sysexstudio]

Rick Wakeman always comes to mind. Fine piece of gear you got there!

[@JohnLRice]

Thanks for watching and commenting! 🙂

[@URTH-yb5xh]

I didnt know this even existed Other nice gear Great sound Thanks for demo

[@JohnLRice]

You are most welcome, thanks for the kind words!

[@KristerNielsen]

So 70's-80's Italia-horror... love it! ^^

[@JohnLRice]

Thanks Krister Nielsen :-)

[@sysexstudio]

Also the "In the Court of the Crimson King" album comes to mind.

[@JohnLRice]

👌😎

[@alexcaminiti]

Hey is this rack unit still holding up well? I’d like to know if the rack unit is worth it more than the mini, and if using another keyboard/workstation to control would makes more sense.

[@JohnLRice]

After almost 6 years my Rack still looks and works like it did when it was new! 😎👍 It has just stayed in my studio though so I don't know how road worthy it is. I of course can't say which version would make more sense for you though. There is only a $400 difference between the two. The Rack is smaller, easier to fit into most situations, and has balanced outputs. They keyboard comes with a keyboard (obviously 😁) and a nicer fully backlit control panel. The expansion slot on the front of the Rack might be slightly more convenient if you plan on buying more than one card and want to change which one you are using often? And if you are looking to save money and have no desire to use expansion cards consider the the Micro version since it's the least expensive at just under $1000.

[@felixdorn21]

Fantastic Unit

[@JohnLRice]

It really is! Thanks for watching and commenting! :-)

[@perfectx7962]

Thanks John.. I've debated this one myself. And really though I'd love the keyboard the rack makes the most sense.

[@JohnLRice]

+Perfect X Thanks! :-)

[@Rhythmicons]

That roland rack is awesome also. I have access to a G8 and it is very nice.

[@JohnLRice]

+Rhythmicons Yes! "Romplers" don't get much love but I think the Roland Fantom is great!

[@willyp5855]

It reminds me of when I was a kid, and old movies would play on TV. I love that sound. The only issue I have with the new ones, is they're kind of vst's in hardware. It would have been nice if they offered an analog synthesizer, as well as filters and FX. I can't justify spending almost $3k on a digital sample player. I'm talking about the FS key version. Maybe I'm missing something that justifies the cost. I own an Iridium keys, so I'm not against spending $3k on a digital synth, but the Iridium offers way more, and allows everything from sampling, to pretty much infinite sound design potential. I've always loved the Mellotron sound, but I already own the IK Media and Arturia versions, and there's up to par with this. I would love to see a new version, with more sound design potential. Without the price going up. I feel that this version should be about 15-20% cheaper than the MSRP. I'm guessing they're trying to make up for dev and manufacturing costs. I would prefer a cheaper case, for less money. I wonder how much of the cost comes from the case.. which is about 1% of the reason that I buy gear.

[@JohnLRice]

Yeah, it can be a very hard personal call. For me, a lot of what I like is the creative focus and inspiration I get from its limitations. Meaning that it only does Chamberlin and Mellotron sounds and there are only limited parameters available in the menus for changing things so I spend more time playing the sounds then fiddling with sound design. (I have a huge wall of modular synth for that ;-) Also it powers on and is ready to play in just 2 - 3 seconds and you can select different sounds as fast as you can turn the knobs. And I do like that is says Mellotron and Chamberlin on it. All super easy and fast to use and sounds awesome to me. I would REALLY love it though if they provided specifications for creating samples on properly formatted CF cards so users can create their own sound sets on a computer to play with on the M4000D! The least expensive version is the Micro which is just under $1,000 which is maybe still pricey but I have one of those also. I love it too and it has been great for live shows. I think they tend to command a high price due to the name. Same way Moog does with their synths, there are many companies that make clones of their MiniMoog and Moog modules etc and sell them for a small fraction of what Moog sells them for but people still buy Moog products.

[@mattsynth]

Hi John, It is funny I could never see the use for a Mellotron because of its old technology using tape. Is this a tape unit or samples? It sounds pretty good. I am Looking forward to future post showing how you use this new unit in some of your tracks.

[@JohnLRice]

+mattsynth Yes, this is a digital sample playback device with 24 bit samples taken from original Chamberlin and Mellotron master tapes.:-)

[@DearbornJohn]

Although it sounds reminiscent to the original Mellotron, I'm sure you have many more sounds than an original Mellotron and I know your unit doesn't deal with tape loops at all;) Nice Demo John, I enjoyed listening

[@JohnLRice]

+DearbornJohn Thanks! :-)

[@adrianh63]

Tony Banks of Genesis used the mellotron that was powerful when used choirs live

[@JohnLRice]

+Adrian H Yes, indeed! :-)

[@adrianh63]

how would you compare the MEMOTRON?

[@adrianh63]

By Manikin Electronics W. Germany

[@JohnLRice]

+Adrian H I've only played around with a Memotron intermittently for a total of a few hours and not side by side with a Mellotron M4000D so I can't fairly compare. My impression before I bought the M4000D and before playing the Memotron was that when comparing online demos the M4000D sounded better but playing a Memotron in person I thought it sounded great! The Memotron is less expensive and has a lot more features (editing and digital effects etc) and I think the M4000D is much easier to access sounds on and the hardware design is nicer looking. Both seem very well made and I don't think you can go wrong with either.

[@adrianh63]

Thank you.... Mellotron unit is preferred

[@davidbassett3257]

Hello John, Do you know the source the Gino Vannelli Strings? I believe they were used on his album "Nightwalker".

[@JohnLRice]

Hi David, I don't know what albums Gino Vannelli used those strings on but I'll ask Markus at Mellotron as I'm sure he probably knows. :-)

[@adrianh63]

Is there a Steve Hackett choirs or Genesis Tony Banks choir patches? How many?

[@JohnLRice]

In the default 100 sounds it comes with I don't think there are any that are "named" for any artist in particular but many of the basic sounds those artists used back in the day are in there. Expansion card #2 has Black Sabbath and Steve Hackett voices kzbin.info/www/bejne/naO1fphph96IldE I have quick demos of all the sounds available on Mellotron expansion cards on my channel, please watch them all? :-) If you go to the Mellotron site www.digitalmellotron.com/soundcards you can look through list of all the sounds available internally and on the 3 expansion cards.

[@wouterhardymusic]

2:55 trying to play Jesus Christ Superstar haha, nice one!

[@JohnLRice]

haha, yeah, I knew I was close but couldn't quite get it! 😅🤦‍♂️

[@donaldjasoncrunk]

it sounds beautiful, but i confess i've never fully understood these digital mellotron emulators. the keyboard models i suppose make sense, as the # of keys and keys offered are somewhat unique - but is there anything going on under the hood that cannot be done with a more 'open ended' rackmount sampler (akai, ensoniq etc)? i understand the value of immediacy of interface, and i like turnkey as much as the next asshole, it's just that i could hire someone to set up an S6000 with (albeit possibly not-quite-as-high-quality) multisamples and have beer money for the next year. Obv there is something happening here that i am missing!

[@JohnLRice]

+donaldjasoncrunk For me a big part of it is the convenience. If I have something with in reach that is working without a hassle it is likely to get used. Big heavy old samplers that slowly load one sound set at a time after getting hard drive and CDROM drives configured was too much of a bother and iPad apps while sounding pretty good were fiddly with MIDI and audio adapters and no where to set the iPad. Both options were just really inconvenient. With the M4000D it's a shallow 2U rack mount with physical knobs and initially you are ready to play as soon as you can mount it, connect the power, MIDI and audio cables and then after the first time you are ready to go as fast as you can turn on the power. ;-) I think it sounds particularly great too. I haven't done a direct comparison to the iPad versions I have but I might guess that the digital to analog converters and analog audio path in the M4000D is superior to what is in my iPad mini?

[@donaldjasoncrunk]

i didn't even consider the iPad versions! i'm certain the convertors in your rack unit are much better than your ipad, my ipad 3 sounds like dirt thru the headphone jack. thank you for the detailed answer as usual!

[@nodfactor8808]

Hi John. The M4000D has an aftertouch effect that you cannot do with the mini. Were you able to achieve it with a keyboard controller?

[@JohnLRice]

+nod factor The poly after touch is a big advantage of the full sized M4000D for sure! I haven't experimented yet since my main keyboard controller is a somewhat crappy M-Audio without after touch but I have an UltraNova that has at least channel after touch that might add some expressiveness. Maybe the Ultranova's touch sensitive knobs can be used somehow too?

[@djmarco589]

Ottimo il Mellotron:-)

[@JohnLRice]

😎👍

[@carlosdelcarpio4054]

Does the rack version respond to program change say from an mpc so I could scroll through the sounds that way?

[@JohnLRice]

Hi, I don't think so but I haven't tried doing remote patch/program changes myself. The manual states that it can send MIDI Program Change and Bank Change commands. It would obviously be a great feature to have for people controlling the M4000D from sequencers/computers!

[@JohnLRice]

I was just looking and for what it's worth you can scroll up and down between sounds using the expression pedal inputs.

I'm sure they're far more limited, but do you consider the Nord keyboards with Mellotron samples to be of any utility (e.g., for simple set up for live performance)? I wonder whether Mike Pinder has one of these rack units. :)

[@JohnLRice]

I've never owned any of the Nord keyboards but from what I've seen and heard from online demos, live bands, and friend's that own them, I think they are very impressive, versatile and quality instruments! If someone only wanted to take one keyboard on stage and they needed to do a large variety of things, then sure, something like a Nord keyboard might be the most effective to use? While it would be a fairly specialized gig to just take a Mellotron M4000D by itself it might be pretty cool, but having only 3 octaves of range and only 8 seconds of sustain time would be challenging in a majority of situations? I'd actually love to see a solo artist on stage with just a M4000D! :-) Regarding the great Mr. Pinder, I don't know if he has a M4000D or not but it wouldn't surprise me if he did or if he didn't since he's been at this so long and likely has a huge collection of Mellotron type instruments! :-) If you are looking for a small Mellotron type instrument for you own setup, be sure to check out the Mellotron Micro! I have one as well and have been using it at live shows. It is very small and light, has a 2 octave keyboard, has the same 100 sounds I demoed in this video, and is about $600 less expensive than the M4000D rack. And there are competing products, like the Memotron rack and desktop.

@@JohnLRice , Thank you for the info. I'm grateful that you took the time to give such a comprehensive answer. You are a credit to the community. I know Pinder at least used to have a Chamberlain at his California home. I'm not sure what he has now, but he seems to be well-equipped. He did do a live "symphonic" performance with a classic Mellotron -- I believe there's a video of it somewhere on KZbin. A musician friend of mine bought a Nord keyboard (Stage model) a few years ago, so now I'm really into the concept, but I need to learn more about the keyboards. They evolve from generation to generation, and seem very well set up for live performance. Also, as far as I can tell, they seem pretty rugged. Thanks again, John!

[@JohnLRice]

@ My pleasure! :-)

[@enavorkind2101]

Hello there, quick question; When controlling the M400D via midi keyboard, can it play all 88 notes that could be found on a full sized keyboard? or is it limited to the 3 octaves found on the keyboard version? thanks

[@JohnLRice]

Hi Evan, With any MIDI controller longer/wider than 3 octaves you are still limited to a 3 octave range of response.

[@Antichrist73]

La verdad, si bien lo escucho claro, no entiendo como saca esos sonidos?? Están ya grabados, tal como suenan o, qué teclado usa para sacar los sonidos. Solo veo que le manipula los controles y, de ahí, los sonidos. Pero, nada más. X eso, no le he puesto mucha atención a este video sobre Mellotron Soy 1 amante del Mellotron,; sin embargo, éste no comprendo su mecánica de operación

[@JohnLRice]

Hola, estoy usando Google Translate ya que no hablo español, ¡perdón si esto es confuso! ;-) El Mellotron M4000D tiene conexiones MIDI y estoy usando un controlador de teclado MIDI externo para tocarlo. En algunas de mis otras demostraciones de Mellotron, el controlador de teclado se puede ver en el video, como este kzbin.info/www/bejne/naO1fphph96IldE ¡Gracias por mirar y comentar! 🙂

[@Antichrist73]

@@JohnLRice Gracias 🙏🙏🙏..

[@troublesomecorsair]

Does this mean the Mellotron Micro has a larger range with 4 octaves? I wonder about that octave switch...

[@JohnLRice]

Hi, no, the range is the same on the Micro. When the octave switch is in the low position the low F key is the last one that plays and in the high position the high F key is the last one that plays.

[@troublesomecorsair]

Thank you very much!

[@FaidedBTB]

Have you ever had any problems with your unit like any Midi issues with the keys not plating correctly?

[@JohnLRice]

It always works great under normal playing conditions but the MIDI implementation is missing either of the "all notes off" commands so if it receives bad MIDI information and one or more notes get stuck, the only way to clear it is to power cycle the unit, which is less than convenient! I run into this issue with a unique setup most people don't have but I suppose it might happen with some MIDI hardware or software sequencers or certain poorly implemented keyboard controllers if played too fast? Specifically I have a large modular synthesizer and one module is a 552 Control Voltage to MIDI converter from Moon Modular. It sometimes throws out bad MIDI data when pushed to hard and fast but changing the output channels sends an all notes off command which clears the stuck notes on other synths like a Roland Interga7 and Yamaha FS1R but the M4000D doesn't recognize the command and needs to be turned off and back on to clear it. I've been meaning to write to Markus at Mellotron to request the all notes off commands be added to the firmware but haven't yet, so thanks for the reminder! :-)

[@FaidedBTB]

@@JohnLRice great info thank you! i have the Mellotron rack hooked up to a Studio Logic 88 with fl studio & it works with just the studio logic keyboard but it starts trippin when i hook it up with FL studio

[@JohnLRice]

@@FaidedBTB Ahh, interesting! What sort of thing happens with FL Studio, stuck notes or something else? There is a setting in the M4000D menu for legacy MIDI compatibility (or something like that, I may not be remembering correctly off the top of my head). The setting didn't help in my case with stuck notes but it's worth a try?

[@FaidedBTB]

@@JohnLRice yea stuck notes with FL studio, i hope i can find that setting you are talking about lol

[@FaidedBTB]

@@JohnLRice not that it matters now but why didn’t they just put a midi USB port on it lmao

[@JoeFamousOne]

Hey John. Can this rack be controlled by a keyboard? I really don't understand how this would be used in a live band environment. Sorry for the dumb question.

[@JohnLRice]

+Joe Famous Hi Joe, Yes, it has MIDI IN, OUT and THRU jacks on the back of it and I was controlling it with a MIDI controller keyboard in this video! :-) So you'd connected it to a MIDI keyboard the same what you'd connect any MIDI rack mount module. Here is a picture of the back: www.keyboardmag.com/portals/2/Mellotron_Review_0913_3.jpg

[@JoeFamousOne]

+John L Rice can you use a regular midi keyboard with this rack and reproduce the Mellotron M-4000 D. What the are pros and cons of this rack as opposed to the actual M-4000. Thanks

[@JohnLRice]

+Joe Famous Yes, any device that has a 5 pin DIN MIDI output can control the M4000D Rack, like any MIDI keyboard synth or controller, a MIDI sequencer, a drum machine, a computer etc etc. :-) About the pros and cons, do you mean the difference between the M4000D Rack and the original M4000D keyboard? The main difference there as far as I know is that the larger of the two keyboard versions has wooden keys that have the feel and polyphonic touch response like an original tape based Mellotron. Or do you mean the difference between the digital Mellotrons and the tape based Mellotrons (originals and the new ones currently made by Mellotron and Streetly Electronics?). There are lots of differences but I've never used a tape based one so you probably should just read discussions and articles online. Also try to buy or rent the excellent documentary titled "Mellodrama" www.amazon.com/Mellodrama-Mellotron-Movie-Brian-Wilson/dp/B0030FQNP8

[@mistermyxpyx]

Does the rack unit respond to polyphonic aftertouch?

[@JohnLRice]

Sorry for the late reply! No, the M4000D Rack doesn't currently respond to polyphonic aftertouch. Markus told me that a software update is coming in late 2016 that would allow the rack version to respond to poly aftertouch but it hasn't been released yet that I know of.

[@dollx6928]

Any recommendations for a keyboard for one of these?

[@JohnLRice]

Just about any keyboard will work, just pick one you like the feel of, has velocity sensitivity, and that is at least 3 octaves long. (you don't need one any longer than 3 octaves because the M4000D only has a 3 octave range but it wont hurt to use a longer one) I can recommend the 4 octave Roland A-49 as a great MIDI controller if you want something as small and light as possible but still has a quality feel. 👍The main keyboard in my studio is a Roland A-88 (original version) which I mostly love although the action is a little sluggish for playing fast repeated notes in particular so I switch to the A-49 when I feel the need for speed! ;-) There are likely other great choices out there for MIDI controllers and if you want to spend more than $300 you could probably find a really nice keyboard with a built in synth too! I have a Novation Ultranova (discontinued, average used price $400) and it has a pretty nice 3 octave keybed and impressive synth engine and it, along with the M4000D, would make a powerful and complimentary pair? 👍

[@dollx6928]

@@JohnLRice Thank you very much for your detailed reply, it's very helpful!

[@cristiannegron5068]

Can you connect mellotron micro to midi keyboard for more octaves? Can’t find the answer anywhere

[@JohnLRice]

Yes, with an external MIDI keyboard you can play the full 3 octaves. :-)

[@gevansmd1]

@@JohnLRice You only get 3 octave range with the rackmount as well?

[@JohnLRice]

@@gevansmd1 Correct. "Technically" you can squeeze 4 octaves and one whole step out of it because there is a "High / Low" switch that drops the pitch range one octave and the Pitch knob adjusts the pitch up or down 7 semi tones but it's not like you can comfortably play 4 octaves in real time without thinking about it and manipulating the settings. ;-)

[@jeffpettit1]

@@JohnLRice can you use midi split to access A and B voices in mix mode? would be nice to have bass in LH choir in RH.

[@JohnLRice]

@@jeffpettit1 I don't "think" there is a way to do that easily but I could be wrong?

[@christopherklein4203]

Sorry, these may be a dumb question, but I am new to understanding a lot of this. Basically I wanna add this rack to to go along with my Moog Sub 37. How do you control these sounds with the keyboard on my synth. Basically using my synth as a midi keyboard for this? Is that possible? Also, would it be possible to have both sounds of the Mellotron and Sub 37 to play at the same time?

[@JohnLRice]

Hi, yes, very easy to do what you want! :-) Using a MIDI cable connect the Sub37 MIDI output to the Mellotron Rack MIDI input. It might work right away if both devices are on the same MIDI channel but if they aren't just look at the manuals to learn how to change the settings. Then connect the audio output of both the Sub37 and Mellotron Rack to an external mixer to listen to both at the same time.

[@synthknobs]

Sargent Peeper's Lonely Hearts Club Band

[@JohnLRice]

😎

[@lmnop1022]

Looks like there isn't a way to navigate directly to the desired sound . Those a/b selectors must take a beating.

[@JohnLRice]

The encoders seem pretty robust and will likely last a long time but besides scrolling through all the sounds to find the one you want there is a "Playlist Mode" where you can set up your favorite/commonly used sounds together. There are 16 play lists and each playlist can can be edited to hold up to 32 pairs of sounds. You can use the A knob to step through the pairs in the playlist and use the B knob to step through the playlists but you can also use a MIDI input to do the same with Program Change and Bank Change commands. 😎👍

[@g3cd]

@@JohnLRiceI had tried to find out how well the MIDI implementation is done but Markus Resch from Mellotron treats that as a state secret (I had to send him a NDA just to get a PDF with a product flyer). I'd love to see a video about MIDI settings and wether changing A/B volumes is possible with CC.

[@JohnLRice]

@@g3cd I haven't tried it fully but in the MIDI menu there is an On/Off option for "Program/Bank/Mix Control" to allow CC messages for changing sounds and I'd assume the balance between the A/B sounds?

[@CarlGontheBeat]

does this produce a mono signal out? or stereo??

[@JohnLRice]

The M4000D is basically a mono instrument, probably because the old tape Mellotrons and the Chamberlin instruments that came before them used mono tapes. But the M4000D has two different sets of outputs: One Master output that is a single mono out mix of the two selected sounds controlled by the AB Mix knob Two A and B Direct outputs that are isolated mono outputs of each of the two selected sounds. With the two direct outs it is possible to create at least the very least a pseudo stereo sound by setting both A and B outputs to the same sample and then using external mixing and processing gear to affect the two sides differently.

[@CarlGontheBeat]

Perfect! I figured as much but wanted to make sure. Thank you!!

[@JohnLRice]

My pleasure! :-) Keep in mind the original full sized M4000D, the M4000D Mini, and the M4000D Rack all have the outputs I mentioned but the newest one, the M4000D Micro, only has the mono mix output.

[@stephan2600]

Carl G j

[@wouterdeheus3626]

It seems as if most of these sounds are already on the mellotron m4000d keyboard. Why need a rack?BTW I don't really understand the concept of a rack. Do you connect it to the mellotron keyboard so you supposedly have more sounds to choose from?

[@JohnLRice]

The M4000D Rack comes with the exact same sounds as the full sized keyboard and Mini keyboard versions. It's not intended as an expander for the keyboard versions but an alternative to them. It's played by plugging in a MIDI keyboard or other MIDI controller device to it, like a hardware sequencer or computer etc. For someone who doesn't have room for a keyboard it's a good option since it doesn't take up much room and is less expensive. If you have one of the full sized or Mini keyboard versions already you can buy one of the two different memory cards to plug in that will give you 100 new and different sounds each.

[@JohnLRice]

Although, thinking about it more, the Rack version could be considered as an expander for a keyboard version (or another Rack version for that matter) because it would allow someone to play up to 4 different sounds at once. While not as important for studio and recording work, it could be important for certain live performers?

[@wouterdeheus3626]

@@JohnLRice thanks! Clears things up a lot!👍

[@donguree7]

any chance there is a shamisen sound on it, or on any of expansion cards?...totaly need shamisen and more of ethnic stuff, I believe mellotron would nail those sounds

[@JohnLRice]

Hi, no, unfortunately there isn't much in the way of world music/ethnic instruments available for the Mellotron. I'm guessing this is because most sounds were originally produced in the USA and England from the late 1940's through the later 1960's and the emphasis was on classical western orchestra sounds? (off the top of my head, I could be wrong ;-) The closest sounds on the Mellotron M4000D to a shamisen are the various mandolin sounds as far as I know. Card 03 has a couple mandolin sounds that with some EQ and careful pitch bending might pass as a shamisen, sort of? ;-) soundcloud.com/mellotronfactory/chamberlin-m-mandolin soundcloud.com/mellotronfactory/chamberlin-music-master-500-mandolin There is also a banjo sound on card 03 that might be "faked" as a shamisen? soundcloud.com/mellotronfactory/ext-3-banjo-m For a good collection of world music sounds, consider getting a Roland Fantom XR with the world music card or just get the Roland Integra7 which has all the Fantom sound collections and more! There is a shamisen sound in there I believe. And while I haven't tried it, I just noticed that Roland has a VST version of their world music collection for about $70 so if you are working with a computer and DAW software it might workout for you? (I haven't tried it myself) Here's a partial demo of it FWIW: kzbin.info/www/bejne/noGqnnhnbLuUa68

[@donguree7]

​@@JohnLRice wow, tnx a lot for fast and such detailed response🙏🏼...guess you are right about the historical western aspect of mellotron, though bit pity, they didn't try out some fresh experiments in new times, for im very sure they would nail those sounds very nicely mandolin and banjo from links you sent sound awesome, but they sound too good😉, very much like the original instrument...but hey, still close to shami I am definitely looking into Roland Integra 7, yet there I would miss those juicy mellotron sounds, buying both units is quite pricy and clunky to carry for gigs, if ever they happen again

[@JohnLRice]

@@donguree7 You are welcome! :-) There are some more modern recordings that made it into the collections, they were custom recorded sounds various artists used in the 60's through 90's like Black Sabbath, Yes, Steve Hackett, Wilco, Geno Vanelli, Tangerine Dream, Jack Bruce, etc. New recordings like a world music collection would be great, and I've also long wished for a collection of certain rare/unobtainable keyboards, in particular the Hammond Novachord, which was the first polyphonic synthesizer for the late 1930's! Check it out kzbin.info/www/bejne/iJ6Wg3V3j6ibqLM and Phil Cirroco's demos are awesome kzbin.info/www/bejne/faLceYqtgp6tpLM

[@donguree7]

@@JohnLRice wow, that Hammond Novachord sounds amazing, it is mind blowing that such instrument existed back then

[@1167400]

I have Memotron M2D, M-Tron Pro and the M4000D rack. M4000D is not the sound of a mellotron, but of master tapes. Both Memotron and M-Tron Pro sample actual mellotrons for the 'mellotronic' sound not present on these master tapes. There were no master tapes in actual mellotrons.

[@JohnLRice]

If you don't have a tape Mellotron to compare to, how do you know? ;-) I'm pretty sure all tape Mellotrons and Chamberlins don't sound exactly the same as each other because of different design changes, state of repair and tape condition etc. And a strong majority of people only know what the original tape instruments sound like through the recordings they were used on, and all of those recordings weren't done the same . . . employing different playing and recording techniques, effects, mixing boards and tape/digital records etc. I'd rather have an instrument that produces sounds that are cleaner, more high fidelity, and more stable since it is easier to degrade them to what ever degree I want, then to take an already degraded sound and make it cleaner. And I'd venture to say the sound and experience of playing a Memotron M2D or M-Tron Pro is not 100% exactly like playing an actual tape based instrument? Anyways, since you have a Memotron M2D, M-Tron Pro and M4000D it would be great if you could do a comparison video! :-)

[@1167400]

I also have 2 tape based M400 mellotrons with 8 tape racks giving 24 sounds...The mellotron was never a 'clean' sound; it was the sound of a tape passing over a tape head through a system of pads, rollers and capstan then fed through the 'tron pre-amp. None of the digital 'trons play like a real tape based mellotron but the M-Tron Pro and Memotron sound closest to the real thing as the sounds generated are from real mellotrons, not master tapes. If Markus sampled sounds from one of his MKVI tape based mellotrons and put those sounds on an M4000D, then all digital 'trons would be equal. You are correct about all 'trons and Chamby's not sounding the same. You are also right in that I should do a comparison with all 3 digi-trons plus the real thing! That would be cool.

[@harmono8766]

It's more complicated than that. There are variations in tape speed present in Mellotrons that make it distinctive and other things like the clicking noises when keys are pressed. You can't really emulate a mellotron with just samples, I mean theoretically you could make a digital virtual instrument, but you can't really emulate it using just samples without some kind of trickery.

[@Flibbybibby]

@1167400 I know this op’s comment is a couple years old but still this view point seems to be widespread by so-called purest out there and I am getting a bit sick of hearing the same nonsense! What so-called antiM4000D’s don’t get is... The M4000D is the ACTUAL sound of [a Mellotron] and a perfect template to begin painting upon with the wow and flutter of your making, and using any other digital Mellotron sampled direct from an analog machine isn’t the sound of a Mellotron but rather a copy of THAT particular sole machine which will differ from any other analog Mellotron. So for me the M4000D is the masterclass machine for crafting your own individual Mellotron signature.

[@JohnLRice]

@@harmono8766 I'd say if you can record an actual tape based Chamberlin or Mellotron and make a CD out of it and listen to the CD and say yes, that sounds just like a Mellotron being played live, then you are confirming that digital samples of a Mellotron sound just like a Mellotron. ;-) If you say that even the best recording of a tape Mellotron will never sound as good as one being played live and even the best recording will only be "close", then why not take advantage of the reduced cost, ease of portability, better reliability, low to zero maintenance, and convenience of instant access to hundreds of sounds with a digital emulation? 😁 Don't get me wrong, I think the tape Mellotrons are awesome and with more money and time I'd likely own one or three! I have a room full of modular synths and I know that a majority of the sounds I can make with them could all be done with apps on a single iPad for less than 100th of the cost! 😅😅

[@MarkoDeLaVoota]

do you own both , mini and rack ?

[@JohnLRice]

Yeah, I have both the Rack and the Micro! ;-)

[@hilldp44]

John L Rice does the micro sound/operate identically to the rack/mini?

[@JohnLRice]

@@hilldp44 There are some hardware and software differences but I haven't taken the time to compare and analyze them. Maybe a good subject for a video demo I could do? ;-) The Micro only has a mono unbalanced output, a headphone out and a sustain pedal input, plus the 3 standard MIDI connectors. The Rack and Mini have a lot more connections like separate A and B outputs and expression pedal inputs and the Rack has additional balanced line outs on XLR connectors. When you get into the menus there are different options in the software etc.

[@ljs8888]

Are you able to set the release time in the mirco menu (so you don't have to use a sustain pedal)? Great video, thanks!

[@JohnLRice]

@@ljs8888 Sorry for the late reply! 🤦‍♂ Yes, the Micro has settings for both Attack and Release times. 👍

[@tiempoveganoprovida2247]

es un sampler de mierda mas. estan currando con una marca que ya no existe, como es costumbre. Cualquier programa de sampler gratis hace lo mismo e incluso mejor

[@JohnLRice]

¿Alguna vez has tenido un M4000D? Parece que estás enojado tratando de justificar no tener uno?

[@tiempoveganoprovida2247]

+John L Rice jajaja...es que yo detesto todo lo que sea digital. a mi que me den un mellotron de verdad. que pese yna tonelada aunque suene para el orto. por lo demas no veo cual es la diferencia entre este modulito y cualquier otro sampler

[@JohnLRice]

Creo que la principal ventaja del M4000D-Rack sobre un Digital-Sampler genérico es la comodidad del rendimiento. Hay 100 muestras geniales que se cargan al instante con una interfaz bella y simple. La simplicidad hace que sea más fácil y divertido crear música. ;-)

[@tiempoveganoprovida2247]

+John L Rice ...toda la tecnologia digital a la hoguera.

[@JohnLRice]

;-)