How to make Cast Iron Bronze - Bronze with Cast Iron

[@drthmik]

1. Is it weldable? 2. is it hardenable? 3. is it forgeable? I ask because some metal alloys are not

[@jjrossitee]

Probably not weld able, probably braze it.

[@houstonceng]

Aluminium Bronze doesn’t silver solder, so I would suspect this stuff wouldn’t braze.

[@Darkphoenix3450]

You could tig it but that about it from what I can tell from my experience.

[@jkoeberlein1]

@@houstonceng If it had phosphor in the braze alloy it might braze. I've seen copper brazed to mild steel.

[@PSUQDPICHQIEIWC]

Without testing the material properties, assuming it has unique merit is just fanciful guesswork. Being "a new alloy" alone isn't anything of consequence. If someone contaminates a production melt with no understanding of the consequences, it's a defect, not a discovery. how freely does it machine? is it malleable? what's the stress-strain curve look like? what is its general corrosion resistance? is it notably susceptible to SCC? what are its electrical/thermal properties? what are the limits of its weldability/solderability? what's the microstructure? what's the actual resultant constituent proportion? I have a feeling that if any objective testing gets carried out, the result will be that any unique benefits come with corresponding shortcomings when compared to common materials. Then again, maybe I'm in the wrong place. My apologies if this is all borne out of some hobby primitivism wherein people entertain themselves by purposely ignoring the observable and intentionally making their own work inefficient, inconsistent, and unreliable.

[@john90430]

My suggestion: Give that ingot to Alec Steele so he can try to forge it into something.

[@MeltandCast]

Great idea... probably not that particular ingot... but I might make some another day to send out to some choice channels for some better testing... cheers Andy

[@jordanearl5449]

someone else who watches Alec, a nice idea too.

[@ericworley298]

That’s what I was going to say

[@blitsriderfield4099]

I definitely agree. Alec would have a WHOLE ton of fun with this.

[@blitsriderfield4099]

I definitely agree. Alec would have a WHOLE ton of fun with this.

[@chiraldude]

Interesting but way too much looking at the ingot at the end. How about some testing? Hardness? Salt water corrosion? Is it machineable?

[@dizzious]

I was wondering the same thing. Somebody's gotta send this guy a set of those files for hardness testing.

[@ronroberts110]

There are many questions that I am also curious about. However, it likely is easily machinable.

[@Eldritch_Elmo]

@@dizzious Rockwell Hardness Files.

[@darkshadowsx5949]

to much talking in general it took 7 minutes to get started.

[@kblskables2877]

Omg where is all the scientific testing

[@DSalesGuy]

Cheers! Thank you for taking the time to document your experiment. Your efforts motivated me to research and peruse sources to see if there might be other elements or additives that could be included in small amounts to help this alloy pour better. C63000, Nickel- Aluminum Bronze has eight elements in it including Cu, Sn, Zn,Fe, Ni, Al, Mn and Si, except the Fe and Al are switched around in their ratio to each other. C63000 is a good metal corrosive resistant applications. I worked for four years as a R&D machinist, before College but never got to play in a foundry. Thank you again for Sharing. DK, dsalesguy.

[@MeltandCast]

Thanks Dave, if there's one thing this video taught me, its that there's a lot more to this alloy making caper than I realised. Not just a question of bunging a load of metals together and getting a result. Nothing could be further from the truth !! I'm just touching the surface of a very deep subject which I find fascinating. I think now i need to simplify things a little bit and learn some basics !! Cheers Andy 🥂

[@ArcaneTinker]

When I've made aluminum bronze in the past, I started out by melting my heel of aluminum and then dissolving the copper into the aluminum(which it does quite readily) i would also keep a cover of somewhat fine charcoal on the melt to consume the oxygen. But from there, it seems like one could simply add the iron to that and raise the temperature and avoid throwing aluminum into a crucible of molten metal at a temperature so far above it's own melting point.

[@MeltandCast]

That's the way I will be melting it next time pretty much, make the aluminium bronze first and then add the cast iron. I have made a second video on it here, without the flare up from the magnesium content in the aluminium... kzbin.info/www/bejne/eZikd6SAjKqXb68 Cheers Andy 👍👍👍

[@jkoeberlein1]

Where's the fun in that? No sputtering molten metal and no exciting flashing of light?

[@joshschneider9766]

What about bringing a 50 50 mix of aluminium bronze and non ductile iron to iron melt temp in an enclosed crucible with a layer of glass on top to ensure one way movement of gases? Crucible steel but with this material basically.

[@joshuamcdowell1460]

Or instead of that you could bring some iron ore up to smelting point and then add the metals that smelt at a lower temperature and watch them melt like butter on top of the iron before mixing them in. Could probably drop in some charcoal and mix it in too to make some stronze.

[@Cleav727]

You can alloy iron with aluminium and copper ... mind blown! I have so much to learn, thank you.

[@MeltandCast]

Well you can... but not very well. The copper won't take much iron into it... best stick with the more common casting metals. Unless of course you fancy trying it... the ingots look nice... but it didn't work for me hehe. Cheers Andy 🍺🍺🍺

[@st3althyone]

It sure has a beautiful color/tone!would be nice to see the grain pattern and atomic structure if it is a new alloy!!

[@MeltandCast]

Maybe not so new sadly... I cut an ingot in half on the next video though, you can see it here kzbin.info/www/bejne/eZikd6SAjKqXb68 Cheers Andy 😎😎😎

[@BlankPicketSign]

I hope this Alloy is both New and Useful! I would LOVE to see people making all sorts of cool things out of it!

[@MeltandCast]

The second video had a better result, still lots of wastage though... Cheers Andy 🍺🍺🍺

[@MichaelButchin]

General question: When you melt different metals together to create an alloy, does the order in which you add each metal to the crucible have an effect upon the final properties of the alloy when finished?

[@MeltandCast]

Yes... but you need to understand what happens to various metals when you melt them...the subject gets really complicated, really quickly. I honestly don't have the knowledge or experience to understand the ins and outs of that. I'm just a dude in a shed, melting and having a bit of fun. Daniele has much more knowledge on the subject than I do, If he has a suggestion, I'll give it a go and learn what I can..... Cheers Andy 👍👍👍

[@kingjames4886]

@@MeltandCast interesting, I wouldn't have thought it would matter as long as they can melt together without either burning up or oxidizing. could be a good video.

[@lordchickenhawk]

@@kingjames4886 Some metals can have lower boiling points than the melting point of the metal you want to mix them with. For example a copper-zinc alloy that can be used in bullet jackets has 5% zinc. How and when the zinc is added to the copper matters a great deal since to want the alloy to freeze before all the zinc escapes

[@sleddineinar]

When you get done stirring to you ever get the urge to lick the stirring stick?

[@MeltandCast]

Hahaha, I always lick the spoon !!! Rude not to !! Hehe 😜😜😜

[@jkoeberlein1]

Uh no, but thanks for asking.

[@realhorrorshow8547]

Our ancestors used to think metalsmiths were magicians. They were right.

[@rachdarastrix5251]

My ancestors never believed that. But they did believe the first metal items were given to them by the gods themselves. This turns out to be true.

[@rachdarastrix5251]

@Redblade Relax, its just memes. No need to be a troll.

[@rachdarastrix5251]

@Redblade Also that shows what you know. If I had encountered fairies I would most likely end up dead, then you will have one less person to have your fun taking what they say overly seriously.

[@rachdarastrix5251]

@Redblade Fairies have lore to them. You ever look into the stories of fairies? The ones before they were romanticized by the late 19th century through out the 20th and 21st. More modern tails of the fae have been watered down and surgar coated by people who wanted children hearing about them to be inspired with hope instead of fear. But the reality is the fae are very malevolent and deadly. The fae aren't just some happy little things that will grant your most undeserved wishes if you just believe in them. They will kill you.

[@MeltandCast]

Redblade has left the building.... permanently... and good riddance !!! Can't be listening to all that drivel... Cheers Andy 👍👍👍

[@skapur]

The reaction when aluminum was added looked a lot like thermite. Maybe there is some oxide in there from reaction of molten iron with air in the furnace before aluminum is added?

[@adfaklsdjf]

I think this idea has merit

[@exoticcreature3059]

To me it looked more like a magnesium fire. On my end the color appeared to be bright white.

[@jkoeberlein1]

@@exoticcreature3059 Yeah I think he says so much at the end of the video.

[@alyxiastarling7990]

aluminum oxidizes quickly in the atmosphere. Unless he polished off the outside of the pieces he used, they were indeed coated in oxide. You are seeing the oxide react with the iron, so yes, a thermite reaction.

[@helltanner3722]

Pre heating the grabbers is so obvious when you see it....but its a trap I would have picked it up with cold tools and ruined the pour...thanks for showing me a new thing

[@MeltandCast]

I saw BigstackD doing it... made sense to me... save shocking the crucible with a cold band around it... People do something similar when they crack wine bottles to make wine glasses don't they ??? Cheers Andy 🍺🍺🍺

[@joshschneider9766]

Yes you score it with a burr then heat the score which thermal shocks it and makes it pop apart

[@alyxiastarling7990]

its completely pointless. Ive picked up my crucibles hundreds of times with cold tools. never had a crack. You can drop a hot crucible in water, the thermal shock is not going to do a damn thing to it. On the other hand, heating your molds up to above 100 C is really important because water vapor condensates on the surfaces of..... everything... and then when you pour into it, it will bubble up through the metal and cause splattering.

[@ukonrautaironworks2541]

Can you forge that or will it crack like cast iron and crumble? I wonder how and if it will harden. Love to get an ingot of that and mess with it.

[@griffinbeaumont7049]

One only has to take a single glance at the background to know this person is the type of man that has the capability to smelt metals.

[@noblelegrand331]

Would it be a cleaner ending nugget if it was on a Vibrator to get all the air and flatten it out evenly ? Looks pretty doe

[@ABaumstumpf]

It does look like an interesting take on aluminium/scrap-bronze, would be nice to see what the ups and downs are. I'd guess that the iron content is so high that it again reduces its corrosion-resistance.

[@Toontownluver1041]

What abot the inclusion of powder steel? 1080 or something similar.

[@Gilmaris]

105% is 105%, even if 5% is lost. If I have a litre of whiskey, 40% alcohol, and I drink half of it, there's still 40% alcohol in the remaining quantity. In other words, when you account for the 5% loss to dross, what is the composition in terms of iron, copper and aluminium?

[@johnnyb8629]

I wonder if this can be rolled into a sheet and explosion welded to steel for new boat hull applications? maybe a hull strong enough for ice breaking? do they use AR500 steel for marine applications like this I wonder?

[@BoingotheClown]

Now that you have made Daniel's alloy, you will need to run some tests and see if it works well for casting, forging, machining, and welding. That will let us know what applications Daniel's alloy is good for.

[@MeltandCast]

It's not much good for casting a the moment, there is a lot of waste when making it and it has issues with viscosity currently. I'd like to see some test results though, I'm sure Daniele would be interested... The ingots you do get however are a lovely and the metal quality seems very good too. I'm sure it could have a use in the casting community if it could be made to be more fluid, and with less waste. Cheers Andy 🍺🍺🍺

[@baska1712]

MeltandCast ad about 5% zinc for viscosity maybe it will help like in fine bronze castings. Maybe

[@reconmotorsports]

@@MeltandCast Get a chunk over to Alex Steele and have him forge it. There's a fun collaboration, since KZbin seems to be all about those lately!

[@stcredzero]

@@MeltandCast Does it work harden?

[@MeltandCast]

I've not tried...

[@OldtimeIronman]

I wonder how this would work for a bearing material, I bet it works good in high speed high radial loads

[@SerenityGene]

Could you have the result tested to see what actually survived into the alloy? Really looks like a thermite like reaction going on when you add the AL and am wondering if that results in this just becoming an aluminum bronze.

[@MeltandCast]

Cheers Serenity, a few people have mentioned a thermite type reaction. Actually it was because I used the wrong type of aluminium. I didn't realise at the time but the aluminium I used was 5000 series - with magnesium in it, hence the bright white flare. When I repeated this alloy again over the weekend using pure aluminium there was no such reaction - no white light and no smoke - Resulting in some lovely ingots, still some problems, but of a different nature as will be shown in the next video later this week. Thanks... Andy 🍺🍺🍺

[@davidgrover5996]

MeltandCast, With a cool reaction like that don’t you just want to use it more? I would.

[@MeltandCast]

Yeah I felt like an alchemist... unfortunately it was probably due to the magnesium in the aluminium... 😎😎😎

[@MushVPeets]

@@MeltandCast If any of the magnesium survived, I wonder if it could actually have beneficial effects?

[@rolandkeys8297]

I was wondering if it was Magnesium in the aluminium burning off and the amount of slag being taken out appears to match the amount of aluminium added

[@damascus1111]

So now what would happen if I introduced a carbon content into layering of the alloy? Would I then have a steel-bronze?

[@MeltandCast]

I don't know... I'm no metallurgist, just a bloke in a shed melting stuff. This was just me having a go at making Danieles recipe for this metal. Cheers Andy 🍺🍺🍺

[@JP-xv8uq]

i wonder how good/bad its thermal conductivity is.

[@MeltandCast]

Probably fairly good I would guess, copper, aluminium and cast iron all conduct heat pretty well. 👍👍👍

[@leemcgann6470]

I’m researching so I can do some small casts like daggers & jewelry pieces... what would happen if you add cast iron to silicone bronze?

[@MeltandCast]

No idea mate, metallurgy's not my thing. Usually I just melt stuff and make sand castings. Cheers Andy 🍺🍺🍺

[@jameslape8656]

I would love to see how this forges I still new to blacksmithing and bladesmithing but I would love to forge this it would make beautifull swords that would be strong. I was wondering if you could give it a temper or not tho and how well it takes to a quinch. Id love to see some testing videos of all this

[@MeltandCast]

I know a blacksmith... I might take him a lump... Cheers Andy 😎😎😎

[@daviantanner8878]

With it being so hard, how brittle is the metal? Is there any flex to it? In general how douse it behave?

[@MeltandCast]

In the second video I beat a thin ingot with a sledgehammer to no effect, and cut an ingot in half to see the inside. I also managed to get much better ingots... 3 of which will be given away... Cheers Andy 🍺🍺🍺

[@masumscustoms]

Wow, very nice. Thats a good experiment. I was sure bronze has more potential then tin and alu-bronze. I cast mostly alu-bronz for durability. But cast iron bronze got my attention. After your tests, when its positive i will give it a try. Thank you for sharing :)

[@MeltandCast]

Aluminium bronze is easy, that's the beauty of it. This is a little more involved... but there's no denying the colour, it's looks really nice and it does save on copper. You can make this with a much higher cast iron content which is even harder than this bronze, but it does have limits. Daniele has tested various proportions and has optimum percentages. I will try and cover the rest of them in the coming weeks after testing this one. Thanks Andy 👍👍👍

[@joshschneider9766]

Damascus steel like pattern welding including this material seriously needs to be explored.

[@donniebrown2896]

Andy, this was the reason I subbed to your channel, it seems you like to try new alloys. Would like someone to do an analysis of the final just to see the final pickup of copper and aluminum just to see what percentage was lost to boil off. Good show keep them coming. Thanks mate.

[@MeltandCast]

I skimmed off way too much metal... close to 2kg... losses should be around 5% of the cast iron - a quarter of a kilo for that melt.... I think I should have reheated before skimming... I'll try for more ingots tomorrow, then remelt them to cast the log wedge. Hopefully I'll get closer to the target. I'll try and save a couple of ingots for testing and cutting up. Cheers Andy

[@tylerwilliamson2855]

Does it rust? What is its magnetic abilities since copper and iron and aluminum is so different? Does it work harden

[@ralphmourik]

I have been looking into Bronzes to make and had actually thought about and looked for Iron based Bronze and indeed could not find much about it. This looks very interesting, looking forward to see what will come out of these experiments 👍👊

[@MeltandCast]

Thanks Ralph, Daniele has a few recipes for his bronze I'll try and cover them all in the coming weeks. For now I think people want to see some tests on how it performs... not quite sure how to go about it yet, but I'll give it my best shot... Thanks again... Andy 👍👍👍

[@shookings]

@@MeltandCast you may be able to get help from the Hydraulic Press Channel. He has a press (as you'd assume), and he has some pressure gauges that I think go up to 40 tons, possibly more. Located in Finland. As far as tensile strength, maybe Project Farm, located in the US. He has a tensile strength setup for wood, but aim not 100% sure if he could modify for metallurgy. For actual chemical and metallurgical testing, Nurdrage may be a source of information, and may do some research himself. Located in the US.

[@shookings]

@@MeltandCast hell, as far as that goes, send some to Alec Steele, and see if he can forget it into something useful.

[@MeltandCast]

Cheers Shookings, thanks for all those suggestions, I really appreciate it. I'll have a couple more tries at making this alloy and then see if I can make some samples to send off. I'm sure Daniele would be interested in some numbers. It would be very interesting to see the results of some proper testing... Thanks again... Andy 🥂🥂🥂

[@MeltandCast]

Great idea mate, I'm sure Alec Steele would be able to do something with it... he seems to be able to forge just about anything hehe 😎😎😎

[@ronin2963]

That is some good looking metal

[@MeltandCast]

Thanks Ronin 🍺🍺🍺

[@johnparrish9215]

Sir, please measure the alloys thermal expansion characteristics, if it's like Berylium Steel it will be minimal.

[@StuartSmithHandForgedKNives]

can it be forged into knife handle fittings or smaller components?

[@MeltandCast]

I'll try and make some samples to send to other channels to see what they can do with it when I get round to it... Cheers 🍺🍺🍺

[@MeltandCast]

UPDATES: Will be posted in this comment as I learn more, please read on for latest advice: In this video I make a type of bronze. It's called Cast Iron Bronze and was provided by of one of my subscribers, Daniele Bosco from Italy. This is an extremely hard bronze, well suited to weapons, hammers tools etc. This metal should also hold an edge well. Hope you enjoy the video, it's a bit longer than normal and shows the entire process from start to finish. Hit me a sub if you enjoyed it and would like to see more, like and comment if you wish to discuss anything in this video. UPDATE 1: Turns out I made a few mistakes making this, you shouldn't get the bright white light or the smoke, so something was amiss. It could be the aluminium wasn't pure. This recipe calls for pure aluminium of at least 99% UPDATE 2: The correct method of adding the metals is melt the copper and cast iron together. When the copper is molten add the aluminium. This cools the metals somewhat, keep the heat on. When molten again stir vigorously. This causes a strong chemical reaction which increases the heat to rapidly rise in a few seconds which in turn melts the cast iron. Stir everything again and mix thoroughly then pour. Daniele says it's a crude process but it works, but is still to be perfected. More updates as I learn more.

[@alphacentary]

MeltandCast I loved the video but have so many questions. XD It might have hardness similar to steel, but my question is how brittle this bronze might be? Will it just shatter? I also assume the mixing with copper and aluminum helps keep the corrosion of iron to a minimum as well.

[@MeltandCast]

@@alphacentary Daniele tells me this metal is very good for axes and hammers so I don't think brittleness is an issue. I also think it will be quite resistant to corrosion. It doesn't spark when you grind it either. The carbon in the cast iron is key to this metal. He recommends cast iron brake discs for optimum carbon content. The recipe can be varied quite a bit but it has limits. I'll try to address some of the comments in the next video or two. Cheers Andy

[@alphacentary]

MeltandCast Awesome thank you.

[@britneyhigham1872]

My husband is thoroughly impressed with the idea of a golden hued metal with the strength of steel without the need to electro plate gold to existing steel weapons or armour.

[@Gilxen]

for some reason I want to start referring to this alloy as Danielminium, I was going to make a nordic gold sword for a later (much later) project but this may turn out to be better I just don't think my foundry can get that hot.

[@rnbspowa7of69]

Can you stick a magnet to it?

[@MeltandCast]

Yes but it doesn't have much pull with a neodymium magnet... Where the cast iron is concentrated though the pull is a lot stronger as you'd expect. Cheers Andy 🍺🍺🍺

[@allhumansarejusthuman.5776]

Well. I have always been curious about copper ferris alloys; I knew that they are generated (hopefully in very small quantities) at braze sites. I would have never thought to add carbon to get a good alloy.

[@robrod7120]

The crystal patterns on the bar look like it would make it somewhat brittle. Maybe quicker cooling would mitigate this?

[@MeltandCast]

It's definitely not brittle mate, check out the second video for the second batch. I pound a thin ingot with a sledgehammer and cut it in half.... Cheers 😎😎😎

[@AmaroqStarwind]

Mmm. Daniele's Alloy, and Nordic Gold. That's _two_ new alloys~

[@MeltandCast]

Nordic's been around for quite a while... they make the Euro coins out of it... Cheers Andy 🍺🍺🍺

[@kypitbull]

could you cut it in half or cut one of the ends off to see what grain looks like?

[@MeltandCast]

Did that on the next video mate. Cheers Andy 🍺🍺🍺

[@Runedragonx]

Aluminum bronze is said to be as strong as steel while being light as aluminum, so I'm wondering what the iron will do to alubronze.

[@MeltandCast]

Aluminium bronze is actually pretty heavy, almost the same as copper due to the high copper content... Cheers Andy 👍👍👍

[@samnottheotherone4363]

Nah, it's like 90+% copper so it weighs almost as much, if you use more than like 7-8% aluminum it gets a bit brittle.

[@ronroberts110]

During a recent study of electrically conductive alloys, I found out that a small amount of Iron will dramatically improve the machine-ability (lathe/mill), without affecting the conductivity. However, a high iron content will reduce conductivity, and increase resistance.

[@Runedragonx]

Damn you Wikipedia, you've fooled me yet again, unfortunately, you are also the only non-book info source I can often find.

[@LamieTube]

My only concern is the slag inclusions in the bar. I wonder if it would be more put if you added some borax to the mix.

[@Panda_Gibs]

Refinery brass. Looks like brass/bronze, but will kinda stick to a magnet. Also, the aluminum is MLC. A cheap but decent variety of aluminum.

[@jameswalker3729]

I see a lot of pitting and basically weakness in that ingot. you mentioned a second smelting, so would that take that out of there?

[@jameswalker3729]

I did find this: sb-specialty-metals.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Conventional-steelmaking-vs.-Powder-Metallurgy-steelmaking.pdf but I'd think a larger operation would be needed for this process.

[@nlo114]

It's an odd mix, but polishes up nicely. Before using it for anything, I'd consider testing it's crevice-corrosion properties. Ancient metal-workers would have made this alloy at some stage and found it wanting in certain areas, which is why we don't see it in everyday use. (A bit like hexagonal wheels; look good, very strong, but not fit for anything other than decoration) This alloy has zero scrap value, as it would cost more to separate the metals than they are worth.

[@kewintaylor7056]

Oh good explanation...this meand ...no iron and copper mix!

[@doomguy9049]

Ancient metal workers wouldn’t really have been able to work with aluminum though

[@togowack]

@@doomguy9049 the stuff we have wasn't made by ancient iron workers, like the hit-and-miss engines we have from the '1800s', are actually much much older. The alloys in our antiques were not made by primates. The engineering knowledge of the ancient Tartaryan foundries, now called US Steel, Bethlehem Steel Works or Sparrow's point, far surpasses what we have now

[@doomguy9049]

@@togowack wild if true

[@ClownWhisper]

I don't know about this I would be very careful I have had copper flare up when it gets too hot. How is it not going to happen in this situation?

[@MeltandCast]

Didn't know copper could flare up, what were you doing to make that happen ? Cheers 🍺🍺🍺

[@sparky201]

What would be the outcome if poured in an inert gas environment, the mold in a box containing the inert gas?

[@MeltandCast]

Not sure, it was already thick and messy in the crucible before pouring, surprised I managed to pour as much as I did tbh... 👍👍👍

[@ProlificInvention]

I'm not being negative, but curious if it should be heated more after adding the aluminum? Perhaps heating it more may cause it to combine more thoroughly. Do molten metals separate into different layers of various density if they are very different densities to begin with?

[@MeltandCast]

Thanks mate, Daniele does say it needs to mixed very well... They can separate (I think) although convection in the crucible is supposed to do a good job of mixing the metals. Often they have to be added in the right order as well in order for "things" to happen with the structure of the metal. Beyond that I don't know, my knowledge is very limited on the subject hehe. I'm learning lots, but answering half these technical questions posted by others is way beyond my skill level... I'm relying on Google heavily...!!! Cheers Andy 🍺🍺🍺

[@ProlificInvention]

@@MeltandCast Dude Andy, You're amazing-keep going- you are like the *Curious Droid* of at home foundry work. You're my damn hero mate 😂 but for real. You got 3k subscribers now, but soon to have 100k if you keep going (or even more) Study, and make a plan are your next move. Keep making videos as often as possible. Thank you

[@MeltandCast]

Thanks PI, that's really kind of you mate 😎😎😎

[@paulosullivan3472]

Very interesting, subbed, I would be interested in its other properties as well though such as conductivity and compressive strength?

[@rhoadblock12]

Have you ever had an explosion when adding the Al? I work in a lead (Pb) refinery and used to work on the reverb furnace, aluminum in the feed mix would cause a massive explosion. Usually 1500F and above, maybe thats the difference?

[@MeltandCast]

No I haven't Steve, but then I don't have much experience mixing metals. Most of what I have done so far has been pure copper or making my own brass. This was the first time I have tried to make an alloy with more than 2 ingredients. Cheers Andy 🍺🍺🍺

[@rhoadblock12]

Ok well be careful, the reaction your seeing when you add the Al has the potential to be way more energetic. Just saying, youd never talk an old furnace guy into being in the room when you drop that in there.😂😂 The alloy looks great btw and i enjoy your vids, thanks!

[@JulianMakes]

Love this Andy! You are like a master chef! I’m definitely going to try this stuff out thank you so much to you and Daniele. It has a lovely colour, almost golden. I have an old fashioned broken BT phone box in the bushes I can use for the cast iron. Awesome video mate, really brilliant.

[@MeltandCast]

Thanks Julian, Daniele recommends using cast iron brake discs for this as the carbon content is ideal to make this alloy... Ff you have any kicking around... The colour is lovely and it does have a slight greenish tinge to it... It's definitely worth trying out, it needs to be mixed really really well though.... Hope you had a good New Year - best wishes Andy 😎😎😎

[@johnathancorgan3994]

Thanks for the video. Can you explain in more detail what reaction is happening when you add aluminium to the iron/copper melt?

[@MeltandCast]

I'm not 100% sure, I did ask Daniele... He said you'll get a similar reaction with magnesium, zinc and aluminium. It may be because the temperature is so high, the aluminium was added at 1350C... Sometimes things get a little fuzzy when using Google translate... I'll ask him again to explain again in more detail and get back to you... Cheers Andy 🍺🍺🍺

It's to do with the difference in melting temperatures. Iron and copper melt at approximately 1100-1200 degrees, whereas Aluminium has a much lower melting point of 660 degrees. So, when you add it to a mix with a much higher temperature than what it melts as, part of it will actually vapourise at, it literally starts to, 'burn/boil off.' It's only once it becomes amalgamated, (mixes in with the other molten metals), without the presence of oxygen, that it will stop reacting in such a way. The presence of oxygen at the point of entry into the mix causes the burning of the aluminium that will produce aluminium oxide vapour. This accounts, partially, for the 5% drop in yeild as some of the aluminium boils/vapourises off.

[@johnathancorgan3994]

@@MeltandCast No worries. I figured it was just the high temperature difference making it energetic but there also seems to be smoke and gas (and dross) produced. Just curiosity on my part!

[@MeltandCast]

@@johnathancorgan3994 Someone else replied and said it was down to the temp difference too... cant pull up his comment though for some reason... The excess dross was me skimming too much metal off...

[@MeltandCast]

@J0hNF_UK Thanks John - Finally found your comment which was held for review for some reason. Really appreciate your input on this, this metal clearly needs input from people with a greater understanding of metallurgy than me. Great to have a proper explanation of what is going on in this process. Judging from other peoples comments it's obvious I need to try and run some tests with this bronze, but I'm now starting to get a little out of my depth !! I hope some more experienced people will try this and run their own tests, although I'll try to do as best as I can with what little knowledge I have. I might just need a little guidance along the way !!! Thanks again... Andy 👍👍👍

[@Thewulf56]

The bar look great, pretty close to the color of Aluminum Bronze. I was hoping to see some strength tests. I might have to give it a try one day. The reaction when you added the AL was close to about the same as when you added the ZN to the copper a while back, I guessing it was because it was over its boiling temp. How magnetic is it with the cast iron added in?

[@MeltandCast]

Interesting.... When I put a neodymium magnet on it it has a "fair" to "light" resistance where the metals are well mixed. At the end where the metal didn't mix so well there is a much stronger pull. A magnet seems to be a good way of testing how well its mixed. A second melting would mix it better though. The reaction wasn't the correct reaction, there shouldn't have been any white light or smoke. It may be the aluminium wasn't pure (Danieles assessment) or my method of adding the metals was incorrect. Please refer to my pinned comment for the latest updates from Daniele as I learn more. Language is a small barrier so things sometimes get confused, I'm still learning how to do this myself so it may take a couple of weeks before I get this right. Cheers Andy 👍👍👍

[@hanelyp1]

I've seen iron as a secondary alloying element in aluminum bronze, but never near 20%.

[@harryzero1566]

Forging and hardening would be the ultimate practicable use for this alloy? A corrosion free weaponized alloy perhaps?

[@DeliciousDeBlair]

The way you pick that bar up at the end, and its size it sure does not look as light as the scale says! Seems like instead of 60 lbs it may only be 6 lbs! You must be really strong!

[@MeltandCast]

It is 3kg / 6.6 lbs... The decimal point isn't so easy to read on the big scales... hehe... Cheers 😎😎😎

[@DeliciousDeBlair]

@@MeltandCast Ahh okee... Thank you.

[@andrewyork3869]

@@MeltandCast I was thinking the same thing, decimals there important....

[@England91]

You probably could get a more even crystalline structure of metal if the mould was warm/hot while the metal was being poured so you have less waste material

[@MeltandCast]

Thanks England, the mould was hot mate, its just the mix was thick and gloopy, maybe the metal wasn't hot enough... I don't know... Cheers Andy 🍺🍺🍺

[@DeliciousDeBlair]

A lot of the hardness will have come from the carbon contributed in the cast iron, surely could have been heated a lot hotter and placed in a much hotter mold for a smoother, more perfect cast, but I suppose for just a bar, it is fine, and if the idea is to re-melt it for better mixing, then its definitely fine.

[@puzzled4163]

What happens to the graphite that is in the cast iron? Does it add to the strength of the mix?

[@MeltandCast]

Thanks Steven, I don't really know if I'm honest mate. I was just following Danieles recipe, you'll probably find the answer in the many comments by people with a far greater understanding than me... Hopefully Daniele will see this and reply... Cheers Andy 🍺🍺🍺

[@st3althyone]

You’re basically making thermite when adding/mixing the aluminum in the end

[@tim-hypnotherapist]

Is it simple convection creating the blower effect?

[@MeltandCast]

On the pour ?... Yes 😎😎😎

[@lpjunction]

" .... must be mixed extremely well." Would an ultrasound shaker be helpful in this case?

[@nightcaste]

The heat required for this would destroy the transducer

[@mumblbeebee6546]

nightcaste that sounds like a challenge to some of the harder nuts on KZbin ;) But as Daniel has already written, he is looking into a tungsten stirrer first...

[@Zenas521]

It sure looks pretty, but what are the qualities of the metal?

[@xyzo9545]

We are witnessing history being made

[@keithhuseby6941]

How would this metal handle salt water for the likes of components for a boat?

[@damascus1111]

Keith Huseby hmm, I feel the copper content mixed with the cast iron would result in both oxides forming, which could potentially dig deep cracks into the material. I’m far from a metallurgist though so test it!

[@keithhuseby6941]

@@damascus1111 good points. Thanks

[@joshharris3040]

I would think this alloy would react very poorly in salt water.

[@richardsolomon5375]

I'd be very interested to know how this machines. Also what the corrosion resistance is like, and I'll bet this makes a gorgeous Damascus.

[@MeltandCast]

Well... the plan is to make some ingots another day and send some to some other channels so as people can get some numbers on some tests... Lots of people have suggested Alec Steel along with a couple of other channels... let's see what comes of it... Cheers Andy 🍺🍺🍺

[@richardsolomon5375]

@@MeltandCast Abomb 79 has my vote, or mr Pete, as far as machinists go. That is a beautiful piece of metal! Would love to see you further develop it, and what can be made from it.

[@CMAenergy]

Do you ever smell burning flesh? I had a little bigger furnace and could never get that close to it.

[@MeltandCast]

It's not too bad, I had one pour with about 7kg of copper that was so hot it set fire to my gloves whilst pouring !!! Apart from that it's usually OK. The brightness can sometimes be an issue when the heat is white, but my camera usually overheats before I do !!! hehe. Cheers Andy 🍺🍺🍺

[@tjohnson4062]

Some of those reactions when clearing cross look a lot like thermite reactions... You've got all the makings, be careful.

[@MeltandCast]

Down to the magnesium in the aluminium I think... it wasn't intentional 😎😎😎

[@afro_snake6458]

Just watch the video and that was my immediate reaction also

[@joshharris3040]

It's definitely a reaction, but not a thermite reaction. Look at the phase diagrams. Aluminum makes lots of intermetallic compounds, and even just dissolving it in fcc copper is exothermic, if I remember correctly. Most metals react with aluminum exothermically. The reaction itself releases heat. Like thermite.

[@joshuab4586]

Is there ANY use for dross? Or is it pure garbage?

[@MeltandCast]

Some people melt it into ingots and that's fine if that's all you intend to do with it... but really it's just all garbage.... your casting will only be as good as what you put into it. So metal shavings, grinder powder all that stuff, it's all junk. Too much surface area and too many oxides on the surfaces... Not to say you can't cast with it, it's just much better to use good quality chunks of metal, you'll get a much better casting in the end with less chance of defects. The best metal to use would be something that's already been cast, that way you know it's of a decent quality. Cheers Andy 🍺🍺🍺

[@ZeroAndKeto]

Melt glass with aluminum what well happened

[@MeltandCast]

Not sure I understand what you mean Mohammad, could you explain ? Thanks Andy 😎😎😎

[@WessCastings]

MeltandCast I think he is saying to try and mix molten glass with molten aluminum and try to make an alloy. It probably won’t work because glass forms more of a goo than liquid. It would still be cool to try though!!

[@ZeroAndKeto]

@@WessCastings yes thats i mean

[@MeltandCast]

@@ZeroAndKeto I wouldn't be able to make it work, but try this.... Aluminium Oxynitrite otherwise known as ALON. Transparent aluminium. A mixture of aluminium powder, oxygen and nitrogen. An inch and a half of ALON can withstand armour piercing projectiles up to .50 cal, is blastproof and can be made into clear panels through polishing !!! Mentioned in the 1986 Star Trek film and can withstand temps up to 2100C. You gotta love Google.... hehe. Cheers Mohammad... I learnt a new thing !!! 👍👍👍

[@yourdrummer2034]

Was there any testing to see if it's suitable for tool steel or a blade yet? I'm curious about it holding up to either..

[@mohdfaizul5931]

Probably could make a good bearing material too...usually bearing are made by all of this things...idk... may be... but we'll see....btw tq for the experience sir...

[@markneedham3088]

Like a hip pocket on a singlet. Is it just as usefull...?

[@tjohnson4062]

Has anyone broke it to see structure or tested hardness...

[@MeltandCast]

Couldn't break it in the next video, but I cut it in half. 2nd video is here if you're interested... kzbin.info/www/bejne/eZikd6SAjKqXb68 Cheers Andy 🥂🥂🥂

[@pacovl46]

It looks almost like gold, love the color!

[@MeltandCast]

Thanks Paco... 🍺🍺🍺

[@pacovl46]

MeltandCast you’re welcome!🙂

[@tobhomott]

Aluminum bronze (the real stuff, not the homemade mystery versions seen so often on youtube) has a few percent of Iron in it, but not nearly this much! I'm curious to see how it performs...

[@MeltandCast]

It seems like a really good metal Tobho and it looks stunning, but there are a couple of problems with it that need ironing out. Todays melt was much better than last weeks, but there were still some issues which currently make it questionable for casting. Daniele has a couple of suggestions, so hopefully next week it will be even better. Thanks Andy 😎😎😎

[@ABaumstumpf]

And there likely is a reason why the big companies sell it that way and not with a higher iron content (Even more so as ordering different mixes isn't even all that much more expensive if you order large enough quantities)

[@scottparis6355]

What do you get if you just mix copper and iron? In other words, what does the aluminium add to the alloy?

[@MeltandCast]

I don't know Scott, I've never tried it. As to the addition of aluminium - I'll let someone else answer that, I'm just a guy in a shed who likes melting things... 🍺🍺🍺

[@mikebarton3218]

Sorry to be the only sceptic to comment but I am highly dubious about this mixture. There were clear signs of a wispy, grainy structure before polishing and I will be very interested to see how a slice cut from the ingot performs in bend, shear and tensile strength. That said, full credit for actually doing something and sharing it with us. Well done. Great videos, please keep them coming ! Cheers, Mike

[@MeltandCast]

Thanks Mike, be dubious mate !!! It's better to have questions and find answers.... I honestly don't have the knowledge or experience to fully evaluate this bronze properly. All I will say is that other metals show similar characteristics when poured into an ingot. Brass usually has a similar structure until it is ground and polished. The ingot mould wasn't as hot as it should have been which may have caused the "thick" pour. Also if you look at the end of the video you can see bright spots in the final ingot - which indicate the metal wasn't mixed as well as it should have been. A second melting of the ingot should mix the metals properly. When making any alloy it is often considered better to melt the metal first into ingots and then remelt to get a better amalgamation of the metal. I will try and cast this alloy into a few objects which might fully test its characteristics, some kind of blade, a log splitting wedge and maybe a hammer or something. I will also make some shaped ingots to cut up and bend to see whats going on inside. In Daniele's defence he clearly states the metal MUST be extremely well mixed. I also didn't reheat before skimming and removed a lot of material - there's a pretty good chance I altered the proportions of the metal because of this. Cheers... Andy 👍👍👍

[@Gilxen]

I am curious about the same topics, as I might use this new alloy. great vid BTW

[@hinz1]

The high viscosity/slushiness of the molten material could be an indication of iron rich grains that aren't fully molten. The same slushy melting effect happens with lead rich plumber solder where the 60/40 SnPb eutectic melts while the lead rich grains remains solid.

[@MeltandCast]

@@hinz1 I managed to get some much better quality ingots when I melted it this weekend but the slushiness was still an issue. In it's current form it wouldn't make a reliable casting metal. Do you have any idea how this might be mitigated into a more workable metal ? I used a slightly different method the second time round, you'll see later this week when the video goes out. The ingots whilst beautiful... didn't pour so well again. I still had to skim off 3/4 of a kilo off the top of the crucible and the metal also froze in the crucible towards the end of the pour, even though it was around 1300 -1350C. Total losses were around 1.5 kg off of a 5 kg melt, not really acceptable. Perhaps the resulting ingots could be remelted and a pourable alloy made that way... but it depends what was lost in the first place as to whats left I guess ???? I wish I knew what I was doing... haha. Cheers Andy 🍺🍺🍺

[@solstar4778]

Engine block reduced weight?

[@atmankost3261]

Man I can't wait for space based metallurgy! Being able to suspend a globule of molten metal that you could then use magnetic fields and acoustic resonance to manipulate the molecular structure of the material as it cools!! I can't wait to find out more about this cast iron bronzes characteristics!

[@azshooter348]

You can make the alloy. Now what? what are it's uses that are better than existing alloys?

[@MeltandCast]

No idea mate, I was just having a go at Daniele's recipe. You can find Daniele's thread in these comments somewhere and ask him.... H'ed be in a better position to tell you... Cheers 🍺🍺🍺

[@maxk4324]

First you say it's extremely strong, but then say it's extremely hard, so which is it? They are entirely different properties. Not trying to troll, I'm genuinely interested in its material properties.

[@Dkdude9892]

I love the look of this alloy... looks like pale gold in the sun

[@solstar4778]

What are the advantages of the mix? Corrosion residence? Marine use ? Ship’s cladding!? Car cooling systems?

[@jamescanjuggle]

My engineering brains going wild with possibilities

[@ScooterFXRS]

'zackly, what are it's properties? While aluminum bronze [which has other things like Ni, Zn, Mn] is good at corrosion resistance does this alloy with this Fe value in it lend more strength and at what cost to CR.

[@solstar4778]

ScooterFXRS - what is the “CR” please translate to the layman please!

[@ScooterFXRS]

@@solstar4778 corrosion resistance ... I'm a lazy typist.

[@WeighedWilson]

Almost as strong as steel at twice the price. Our military will go crazy for the stuff

[@hobbyman47]

Both cast iron and copper are excellent. used for making pots and pans. How about a Dutch oven made from that alloy. Can it be seasoned? Like a normal cast iron skillet.

[@phi9249]

Al will burn much like Mg if hot enough

[@peterthadeus9441]

You see that a little when he adds it, hence the dross, but it can't once submerged.

[@emmajnation-emma]

Peter Thadeus unless there’s any dissolved oxygen in the iron/copper. (I know this is a thing in molten steel, but not sure about iron, though)

[@DoctorTooploop]

how does this compare to beryllium bronze?

[@MeltandCast]

I wouldn't touch beryllium, it's really nasty stuff. I have some beryllium copper tools though, they are pretty tough... 👍👍👍

[@marcusmoonstein242]

At last! The secret to Skyrim dwarven metal comes out!

[@jaycousland9835]

I used to use AL as a deoxidizer for my gunmetal (85-5-5-5).Its accumulative on remelt though.It is a violent reaction if the melt is oxidized. I wonder if this alloy would be suitable for casting cannons?

[@HotelPapa100]

Your Aluminium doesn't look cast. It's either extruded or rolled.

[@MeltandCast]

Yeah, I don't know much about aluminium.... 🙄🙄🙄

[@colinrogers5419]

My guess would be that it is 5052 aluminum. Possibly 3003

[@colinrogers5419]

@@Benjamin-tx6vv yah that's why i think 5052. Not only is it common in thin sheet form but it has 2.5 to 2.8% magnesium in it.

[@GM4ThePeople]

The disc brakes, copper tubing & aluminum plate themselves being made of complex alloys, this recipe is a bit like saying: "I am making a new meal, whose recipe is 70% breakfast, 25% dinner, & 10% supper." Not sayin' it won't be delicious, but who really knows what's in it? ;)

[@ExiledPiasa]

Two questions. Number one can you forge this like you can iron or steel? Number two I have been wanting to get involved in this. What would I need to get to get set up?

[@DumitruUrsu]

I remember from an article about ancient bronze that in places were they lacked stanium they would substitute with various stuff, lead, arsenic, and so on. In eastern Europe they used iron, like, modern day Russia.

[@maxk4324]

When you heat up the crucible and allow it to cool over night slowly, that process is technically called annealing where as tempering is where you heat something up and then quench it quickly

[@ArthurHerbst]

Close. If you cool a heated piece of metal rapidly, thats quenching/hardening. If you heat it afterwards to release stress and allow diffusion, thats tempering :)

[@maxk4324]

@@ArthurHerbst cool, learn something new every day. Thanks!

[@geoffreykail9129]

A couple cuts would be interesting also to see the purity of the alloying. Subbed and belled waiting for updates.

[@MeltandCast]

Thanks for the sub Geoffrey, I cut an ingot in half on the latest video... just rendering it now, it should be up in a couple of hours... Cheers Andy 👍👍👍

[@LambertZero]

you can see everything you need to see on the surface. :-D

[@bigb0r3]

+ hardness test.

[@hotrodpaully1]

One thing that might help is if you melt all the metals separate pour into bars that way you can remove slag at each stage and have more pure metals when you combine them

[@MeltandCast]

It may do, It may not be do-able though... as mentioned by F st and Luckygen. Daniele has another suggestion though, so I'll try that first before I move on to other things... Cheers Andy 👍👍👍

[@wayneisanamerican]

Just curious, in her book, Atlas Shrugs, Ayn Rand has a character named Hank Reardon, and he makes steel, he made a very light weight alloy that included copper and steel. Now I know that the book is largely political in nature and thus fiction, but since steel is iron +carbon, if you added carbon to this mixture, maybe you would end up with the metal she described as greenish silver, light weight and extremely strong. She was from Russia and who knows, maybe was drawing upon some lost technology from her ancestors... or just using her imagination. When I was taking a course at KSU called, Machine tool technology, I wrote a paper for that class that looked at Akkadian bronze which was claimed to be an alloy that had some silica in it which was almost as hard as steel and metallurgists claimed it had never been duplicated in modern times...Just some thoughts.

[@bobfels5343]

I wonder, as aluminum is wayy lighter than copper and iron, wont it float?

[@MeltandCast]

It shouldn't do, it all gets homogenised into the melt... although the cast iron didn't mix so well... Cheers Andy 👍👍👍

[@japatton6]

Is it just me or does this sound like Henry Reardon's creation? From the book Atlas shrugged.

[@markpashia7067]

That was my first thought just a few minutes into the video.

[@damascus1111]

Perhaps, but from what I recall that was just pure steel with a varied carbon content and magnesium. I recently did a report on Atlas shrugged but can barely remember. By god it was dry

[@japatton6]

It's incredibly dry. But what I remember most is the pale green oxide color of the metal and it needed copper and steel in some regard.

[@velazquezarmouries]

is it forge able?

[@tannerblack4498]

I think we finally found out what the Dwemer metal from the Elder Scrolls is made of!