Menards Santa Fe Beta 4.5 Review Run and Repair. Do I like it? Would I buy another?

Menards O Gauge Santa Fe F7 Beta 4.5
I finally got one, ran it, repaired it, and reviewed it. I didn’t cover a lot of the basics since there are already so many videos available on the engine.
Do I like it?
Would I buy another?
Watch and find out!
Hope you enjoy the video!
Please Subscribe, like, and comment!
Thanks for watching!
TeeSpring: merchandise coming soon!
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DAGryffyn Hobby
PO Box 113
Hillsdale, NJ 07642
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I use Labelle Lubricants
Labelle 102 oil
Labelle 106 grease
Labelle 107 light oil
Available as a three pack for hobbies and trains
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Original songs composed by James Kinne
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www.jameskinnemusic.com
All music used with permission from the artist
________________________________________
The legal stuffs:
I have no affiliation with Lionel, or anything else for that matter, and my repair methods are my own based on what has worked for me.
I am not a professional but a passionate hobbyist. Your results may vary. I am not responsible for any damage resulting from any repair method. I am here mostly to provide inspiration and insight.
You can do it, grab your tools and get to work!
________________________________________
#dagryffyn #lioneltrains #modelrailroad

[@user-oo7zf4sv3c]

Dave great video. I have the Union Pacific Menards set. I personally really appreciate Menards effort to offer an entry level train. I feel he is trying to preserve the railroad hobby. Let's face it, new engines are 600 to 2000 dollars. Comparing this engine to your used engines isn't fair price wise and this engine greatly outperforms the older stuff. It pulls more and has a horn, bell, crew talk and a remote control. I would like a better horn also but hey its over 40 percent cheaper than Lionels LionChief sets. The low speed could be better, but that would require more expensive motors. Menards is making a quality toy for kids to play with. I like the chrome trucks and after years of play on a carpet , it will probably still look nice. Looking forward to your next video. Maybe you could get the LionCheif Santa Fe. PS, I like the longer engine its closer to scale.

[@johnblair8146]

Chrome is what you get when you have a car guy specify model trains.

[@dagryffynhobby]

Hey the chrome looked good on the Cragar SS wheels on my impala! It will look good on a train too lol

[@johnblair8146]

@@dagryffynhobby An Impala with a 396 is what I'm talkin' about!!!!!

[@loubro2372]

A buddy just bought the red and ordered the blue today. Waiting on him on putting it through its paces. Nice review Dave.

[@Coreyt1976]

Great video Dave. I was going to buy one but I knew I wouldn’t really run it so I decided not to. When I heard you say the price of your most expensive engine, I thought you would have a heart attack if I told you the price of my most expensive engine! I hope you enjoy your new engine.

[@jackstoyOgaugetrains]

Great Video. I bought the UP's & the SF's. Because of the price I didn't really expect allot. And like you said. Why the chrome trucks. First thing I did even before I ran the SF's was paint the trucks and fluid thank silver. After lubing up the gears & bearings I was very surprised. They run great. I'll buy more of these. I'm also a Lionel person but nowadays I can't afford Lionel anymore. Thanks for all your video. I always enjoy them.

[@stevenmiller5696]

Hi Dave! Great insight as always! Thank w

[@dagryffynhobby]

Thank you!

[@franktino6676]

Great video, Dave! Truly a good one! Thank you! About a few months back, I was watching another KZbin channel video about Menard's Trains in general and the producers of that video were from the Wisconsin area where Menard's is headquartered with numerus retail stores in the Upper Midwest close to them and so they stopped into several stores and they found out that the Train Items mainly were NOT being displayed for sale on the store shelves. When the store managers were questioned as to why not, the store managers in most cases stated that " Oh they come out around October or so -- for Christmas. " So that told the video producers who were also train hobbyists that the corporate culture's thinking at Menard's still views their train items as " Seasonal, ' round the Christmas Tree, deal ."

[@dagryffynhobby]

Glad you liked the video. I would think in a retail environment, they need to place the items that sell in the forefront. Depending on the particular store, maybe they didn’t have room. The stuff is available online all year, so that’s not bad. Either way, whether they place a high importance on the trains or not, as long as they keep making stuff, I’m happy! I m

[@azslotracer]

Thanks for the great video it answered a lot of questions for me. I think I will pass on them. Too many times I see PW F3s for $100/150 not buy a great product!😊

[@Cbtrainnut]

I have the 2.0 version. The engine is just like you said. But I got mine for 149 bucks and did the free shipping to the store. My problem was the remote control. It was cheaply made and I had to take it apart to put the horn , bell , crew talk buttons back in place. Other than that it runs and pulls great. My wife had some Santa Fe Passenger cars from MTH and needed an engine. It pulls all 6 cars just fine. This was an excellent review.

[@markslioneltrains]

Fantastic Video Dave.! Spot on and best honest opinion yet. Agree with T4.! These are the same issues and they are not being changed. My Lionel Lion Chief F3 creeps like construction crawler but again slow speed operation has been a past problem for this Locomotive. Gosh I hate the Chrome along with the remote is a deal breaker for me. Really hope they change my mind some day.!🤔

[@wayneantoniazzi2706]

Excellent review Dave, one of the best I've seen. Now on to my own thoughts... Like yourself I've been hoping someone would step into the gap left by the demise of K-Line and Williams, especially Williams, and I was hoping Menards would be the one. From everything else hey've been making it seemed a leap into motive power was inevitable. (From what Harry Henning told me Menards purchased all the Williams modern train tooling.) That Menards Santa Fe diesel strikes me as "Close, but no cigar." Personally I don't like remotes without a conventional control fall-back. Having all the control eggs in one basket makes me nervous. I don't have any LionChief remote-only engines for that reason. I DO have a LionChief+ GP20, I ran it once with the remote just to see what it was like. It worked fine, but after the test I took the batteries out of the remote and put it away, I run the Geep conventionally. Looking at the size of those capacitors makes me think they're there to balance out the power and maintain a steady voltage to the board and motors so running the engine at less than 18 volts and even down to the lowest voltage you tried might not hurt it, but that's a guess on my part. For slower speed the thought crossed my mind that wiring the motors in series might give you good slow speed performance, I've done it with my Williams twin-motor engines and it works. Honestly though considering the electronics in the Menards engine I'm not sure I'd try it, maybe it'll be fine but the unknown circuit boards worry me, I don't know enough about them. As Dirty Harry said, "Do you feel lucky?" Squeaks. Jesus, Mary and Joseph the amount of buried squeaks in copiers I had to deal with in 30 years is probably what gave me all my grey hair! (At least it's still up there!) Easy access lubrication points on that Menards engine would be a big plus, you shouldn't have to strip the engine to lube it, mostly anyway. Like yourself I can live without the crew talk or engine sounds, a good basic horn and bell unit with decent sound would be preferable. And I agree with you, as sharp as the Santa Fe paint scheme is I'd prefer an East Coast 'road myself. NYC, PRR, Erie, Jersey Central, Lackawanna, Lehigh Valley, Reading, there's plenty to choose from. Maybe they're just going with Santa Fe for the max appeal. I guess for $190 brand new it's not bad, maybe for the very casual hobbyist or for a "Once a year under the Christmas tree" train but like you and others do I know what I can get for that same $190 with the post-wars, MPC's, LTI's and some still-new-in-the-box Williams and K-Line engines at shows. I'd be reluctant to try the Menards engine but that's just me, I wouldn't argue against anyone interested in one. But for now, it's not for me. Again, fine video and a great review!

[@chicagolandrailroader]

I'm relatively satisfied with my own Bluebonnet dummy. In my opinion the sounds are the most lackluster part of the unit. But i applaud Menards for their effort and like you said, hope they fill the low end new o scale market.

[@TheNJ54]

Thank you for sharing. Menard's shipping and packing efforts are feeble and sloppy at best, especially at the rate they charge. I just received a flat car, that came broken, and what an amount it took to get them to ship it back for a refund or replacement. Still waiting for the results, I hope you get your engine sorted! This was my first Menard purchase, thought it was just me, poor quality all around continues as I watched this upload!

[@northpennvalleysteamrailroad]

Awesome video Dave!!!

[@dagryffynhobby]

Thanks so much. Glad you enjoyed it

[@michaeldinanno3320]

Thanks for a great video and review, Dave. I agree with you on almost all counts, especially about the garish chrome. And, you were much more tolerant about the broken horn than I would’ve been. I doubt operating the engine at lower voltages will do any harm whatsoever. Overall, compare this engine to the “value offerings” of 20 years ago by the original Williams and K-Line and I think this new offering is falling far short of those benchmarks. As a fellow budget O gauge hobbyist, I sure miss those guys and wish someone would fill that gaping hole in the market today.

[@tomrogers5516]

A very thoughtful review, Dave. Like you, I'm not hung up on crew talk. It's not something you'll hear when standing on a platform and the current obsession with this kind of feature baffles me. I agree to improve the bell and horn sounds. Of course, it's a new engine, so it has a new engine price, so it's like an used model you'd get at a flea market, but there are needed updates to be made. It's looking, but needs more attention to detail.

[@ELWtrains]

I think I agree with you completely, I was going to buy the blue bonnet that was released today but don’t think I will I have mth and lionel and LionChief and some f my LionChef jerk when pulling to hard I don’t run my trains fast I like to idle so to speak definitely don’t have time to take apart a new loco to grease great review u did thanks for sharing

[@dankamikubo7002]

Silver was the proper color choice for ATSF engines. It was even rumored that they would actually respray the trucks silver after a passenger run.

[@ernestimken6969]

The Menards engine is an F-7. It's length is scale. Lionel shortened the F-3 for 031 curves, but the F-7 rear coupler is longer making a B unit look too far back.

[@rexxumus]

Once again Dave, a terrific video! In general I tend to agree with your assessment. This engine could use some subtle improvements; However, it should be remembered that this is just a toy train, and an entry level one at that. It is what it is. Since these Santa Fe's were the "Train of the stars", I find the chrome trucks an interesting twist on this model. Honestly, my only gripe is the plastic gears in the drivetrain. I hope Menards will offer replacement gear kits in the future for repairs. I should also note that my two '80's era Southern Trainmasters have polymer gears on the drive axels that are driven by the worm gears of the motors. One of them came to me with both gears cracked, as the press fit to the axels were too tight. The other one still has those original poly gears, and they still work very well (although I did purchase a set of 70 year old NOS brass gears as replacements when needed). After I missed out on the 3.0 and 3.5 betas, I went ahead and bought the whole Santa Fe starter set from Lionel. I needed more track anyway, and the sleek streamlined passenger cars have clear windows with passenger seating and LED lighting, which looks great! I plan to add a few passengers later on. The Lionel Lionchief engine and remote are really quite nice. The bell, whistle, and crew sounds are very well done. The paint job is, of course, Lionel, so it's excellent. The trucks are NOT chrome - excellent! I think the $200.00 - $250.00 you'll pay on ebay for the engine/remote alone is totally worth it. I would even recommend it! I only wish Lionel would offer an FT-B dummy aftermarket for an add-on to the set, although additional aftermarket passenger cars are available. In conclusion: Over all, I think the Menards offering is a unique piece to add to any collection. Thanks again Dave.

[@dagryffynhobby]

Thanks. I was just looking at the Lionel Santa Fe set online - can’t right now but I might have to get it to compare and enjoy.

[@johnblair8146]

Doing away with the chrome plating would result in a cost reduction. The product would look better also.

[@mr.shadestrains6033]

Very kool video I’ve been thinking about getting one of those 🚂😎👍

[@dagryffynhobby]

Thanks. It’s a decent loco and it’s been performing well so far

[@kathyjumper6991]

Very thorough review. I enjoyed it. I have three AA sets of the Menards engines now and am very pleased with them. Especially since they all together cost me less than one Lionel AA set. You are basically comparing a Ford to a Mercedes. The Ford will still get you where you need to go for way less, but will never perform or look as good as a Mercedes. For people who cannot afford Lionel this is a tremendous step forward. If Menards keeps moving forward and expands their offerings, they will take a bite out of Lionel's sales.

[@dagryffynhobby]

Glad you liked it. And as an owner of a few fords, and a mechanic who used to work on German cars, I’ll take the ford any day! I’ve been very impressed with the Menards engine. It’s good to hear that someone who has a few engines from them feels the same. I’m excited to see what they do over the next couple years.

[@scpvrr]

I have the Beta 1, which has the jackrabbit start that derails your train when starting at 12+ volts. The solution for me is to set the remote and pretty much run conventionally (defeating its purpose). I suspect that Menards is trying various suppliers on each run, because over 6 releases they still aren’t there.

[@SGolenski]

Very very fair review. As an owner of both "high dollar" scale trains and a nice PostWar collection, I was really hoping Menards was going to be able to put together something a little nicer. The first look seeing it sitting there on the track, makes me think of old-school HO Tyco with that chrome. The dimensions (too long) bother me. When you pulled the trucks off and I saw plastic gears in there, it turned me off 100%. I'm thinking kids will be the target audience on these and I'm sorry, those gears will not last.

[@casstelles]

I had a squeak similar to this on a HO scale Kato engine. With a little oil on the axle nubs where the electrical pickups from, the squeak went away. It was good to see that you were able to solve your issue, also. As far as the quality of this engine, I think that it matches the price that it is offered. It's easy to ask for more, but what would be the future price if more additions were made.

[@trainman5603]

On your closing comments: all really great observations. Marx, the quintessential low price train entry into the market, has decent trains running to this day! The bells, whistles and speech, while nice, except for the bells and whistles is not really necessary.. Decent and realiable, squeak free operation is.

[@dagryffynhobby]

The bell and whistle need to be better, the running has been solid since I lived the axles. No issues or complaints. It’s a basic engine and it just works.

[@trainman5603]

And at a decent price for a "command equipped" engine!

[@DRCRailroard]

Thanks Dave you conveyed my sentiments exactly. It's almost there. Being an operator, which to me is actually running trains, I could care less about crew talk. If Menards could come up with a decent sound system, anything that remotely resembles the horn and bell sounds of an actual diesel engine, I think they would have a hot seller. Maybe they should take whoever is making these an actual recording of an American diesels locomotive. It's like the Chinese employees in the Christmas Story singing raw raw raw raw raaaw. It's not even close.

[@dagryffynhobby]

Haha, yeah I agree! Does anyone know what this is supposed to sound like? Lol.

[@TimMacPA]

Nice assessment. I made it in time for each release but did not buy. I think I have enough engines at the moment, and the money would be better spent on other items, like track!

[@AustinsAmericanFlyertrains]

Thanks Dave. Very interesting review. I too don't understand why crew talk is so popular...

[@dagryffynhobby]

Thanks! I guess there are different aspects to the hobby that appeal to people. I’d rather a whole host of sounds before I felt like listening to someone talking!

[@AustinsAmericanFlyertrains]

@@dagryffynhobby true. Until a few years ago I ran HO dcc with sound. Both steam and first gen diesels.. I was amazed at how realistic the sounds were...if I accelerated more quickly the chuffing became louder and if I reduced speed the chuff would disappear and all I would hear is a bit of side rod slap. And all sounds could be adjusted many different ways. I had cylinder cock sounds I could turn in and off. And the chuffs realistically began when the wheel began to rotate...even when they barely turned. And there were 4 chuffs per revolution. And this on a sound equip steam engine for under $150! I have been surprised how for the price of Lionel and Flyer engines the sound quality is so limited.

[@dagryffynhobby]

@@AustinsAmericanFlyertrains that sounds amazing!

[@jamesmelchin2873]

I don't have any remotes...strictly conventional. Can having the transformer on full power constantly, create problems for it ? This video was very informative and interesting to watch. I appreciate your detailed review. Thank You Dave ! 👍 p.s. When I put an engine on my tracks, it puts a big smile on my face. That's what it's all about. When I first saw this particular piece it looked too questionable.

[@btucker718]

Dave, Excellent review. I concur with everything you said about this beta 4.5. I encountered the same squeak and corrected it the same way you did. So far it's been quiet since. I also notes that optical voltage range using my ZW at about 12 to 14 volts. Interestingly my Marx engines also operate well at that range. I agree about the chrome, it's gaudy and they should tone it down to the more realistic dull silver/gray for the War Bonnet paint scheme. The crew talk is kinda nice but you get tired of it pretty quick. I do have 1 Lion chief engine (The Pennsylvania Keystone set) which I purchased about 3 years ago for about $300.00. The remote works similarly to the Menards and the throttle is similar as well. I use full 18 volts for it and that's what Lionel recommends. It would be nice to know what Menards recommends. The Bell and the Horn on the Lionel is very nice and if you use the bluetooth application which Menards does not provide you can be adjust horn pitch and bell tone. Menards can and should try to improve on the quality of the horn & bell for this and any their model they produce. I also am an East coast guy and would like to see some East coast road names and some other models eventually once they get this one done properly. I don't regret my purchase either but I, like you will be watching to see how this progresses. I would like to see Lowes or Home Depot get into this cause Menards is to far for me too! Thanks

[@dagryffynhobby]

I was running the Menards engine last night at just over 8 volts. Slow was good but didn’t go too fast at that voltage. I think I’ll run it wherever I want but it would be nice to know what they designed it for. I wonder how many have had the squeak issue.

[@railchief74]

The Crome undercarriage I can deal with, but I agree with you that they should repaint the trunk’s silver instead. If my memory serves me correctly, menards has added 25 different crew talk effects. Great review overall Dave!

[@dagryffynhobby]

Thanks! Yeah the side frames are the biggest issue as far as the chrome, I don’t really care what the frame looks like. 25 different effects, that’s not bad

[@railchief74]

@@dagryffynhobby usually with the Lionel LionChief plus engines, they only give you 5 or 6 cab chatter effects

[@robertmadison2752]

For two hundred smackers you could get another really decent Santa Fe PA-1. Best horn ever, decent bell, and it only needs one control--the transformer.

[@williamdibruno2847]

The LionChief is really nice and they don’t have chrome and they crawl also

[@dagryffynhobby]

I really do need to get a lion chief at some point.

[@plunkervillerr1529]

Good show .

[@dagryffynhobby]

Glad you enjoyed it

[@ChrisHessert]

Good, fair review: thank you! I got back into 0 gauge in 2007/2008. Mostly Pre-WWII tinplate, but I did find K-Line, RMT, and Williams (pre-Bachmann) issues that I liked and could afford. I think it would be good for the hobby to have lower priced rolling stock/locomotive options again. Maybe put some realistic price competition up for the others (really just Lionel now). I'm never going to purchase a locomotive with basic functions for $500+ (am I supposed to pay an extra $300 for bluetooth now?), and I'll also never purchase a new plastic boxcar for $80-$120+. It's ridiculous, IMHO. Just 2₵ from a grumpy old man. 🤣 Meanwhile, enjoy the hobby your way, as you do - and thanks again for the content! 😀

[@wayneantoniazzi2706]

I concur, I'm not a grumpy old man yet but I'm workin' on it! Personally I think it was a mistake for Lionel to drop "K-Line by Lionel," it would have made an excellent low-end entry level line for those who wanted to dip their toes in O Gauge but not break the bank on high-end engines or rolling stock. It was a bigger mistake for EVERYBODY in the business to let Williams get away from them, and for the same reason. Instead Bachmann bought Williams and then apparantly didn't know what to do with it and now it's essentially dead. Crazy. Just to add, I did buy some $500 (more-or-less) MTH engines just because they were prototypcally correct but I also realized I was paying for features I'd never use. Anyway, I've got the ones I wanted, so it's back to the "old reliables" from now on.

[@OldFrailandDecrepit]

The horn has all the charm of an early MPC.

[@dagryffynhobby]

I’d say it’s amusing but I’m not sure about charm! Haha

[@chrisresor1893]

The Menards locos dont do much for me but enjoyed the vid Dave!

[@dagryffynhobby]

It’s not for everyone but I’m glad you enjoyed the video

[@railfansammy4974]

very nice your seconed sounds engine with horn.🙂👍

[@dagryffynhobby]

I like it so far!

[@patrickgrogan4382]

With the exception of the cab chatter, the sounds are very similar to those used in the low-end LionChief sets. It sounds like a poorly dubbed version of those sounds, judging from the looping and abrupt cutoff of the horn and bell.

[@dagryffynhobby]

Interesting. I just find it odd that a horn or bell would sound so bad when the crew talk sounds so much better. Kinda backwards to me.

[@kensbackshop6399]

Menards is a fp -7 wich is 3feet4 inches longer the lionel is.a f-3 wich is 50 feet8 inches long,,,thats the difference between them,,,,just to let you know Dave

[@dagryffynhobby]

Cool. I figured it was most likely a later model. Thanks for the info!

[@johnknippenberg-LandmarkYards]

I guess the chrome, horn and bell bother me a bit. Not sure about the almost Tuscan Red color either. The dry axel squeaking issue would bother me a lot, and that would probably be a deal breaker for me. Excellent review!

[@josephschuster1494]

It all comes down to: You usually get what you pay for. Sure, there’s some paint flaws and oversprays, toylike-sounding horn/bell, and inadequate lubrication causing squeaking. BUT: it has bi-directional LED lighting, specific engine number crew talk, running engine sounds and good pulling power. I believe this is Menard’s first venture into offering O scale locomotives, and I’m certain they’ll learn much from the feedback they receive from the purchasers of these locos. You can certainly purchase much higher quality engines, but be prepared to open your wallet WIDE. For the money, I feel Menard’s is a very good purchase. 🚂

[@dagryffynhobby]

It’s been a while now and while I don’t love the engine, I can say it’s a strong and reliable puller. It handles the postwar 2500 cars with ease, a task some other engines struggle with. Despite any shortcomings, it’s a good engine and I would buy another

[@ericdelgado3395]

I like the engine I think they want to mimic the Stainless steel in the paint job but kinda miss there so give us the chrome as a distraction! You caught the red mistake and I see the paint as a close platinum mist but isn't a close stainless steel at all !! I'll take one when the make a red worm PC F7 A and B it's not likely and I tried to buy the 2.0 blue bonnet Santa Fe but was not quick enough !! C'est la vie lol!! Great review and testing Dave very helpful to novices and pros !!

[@dagryffynhobby]

Thanks! Whatever the reason is behind the chrome, I still think it’s crazy! Haha. I wanted to wait until they came out with something other than the Santa Fe but I got impatient!

[@ericdelgado3395]

@dagryffynhobby in this hobby that impetuous impatience is very common lol you're still a pretty good budget shopper Dave!!

[@daivdwalker2374]

Be interesting to see if they come out with a steam or something like a SD 70

[@trainman5603]

Nice review. On your initial observations: the Menards unit is 13+ inches long. That figures pretty closely to the 57' 6" of the F3 and the F7. I conclude the Menard's model is closer to prototype dimensions than the Lionel. There is some dispute, I Ihink, if the Menards unit is an F3 or an F7. Santa Fe, from what I have been able to see, ran a sort of chicken wire on the side top grill work on the Warbonnet F3's into the red of the Warbonnet and stainless steel bars on the upper grills of the F7. The chicken wire was painted in the red, the stainless steel bars were unpainted. Lionel is prototypically correct in their F3 2343 and like models on that feature. Therefore I believe Menards views this engine as an F7. EVERYONE has been telling them to get rid of the silver plated frame and couplers and go with a matte silver finish. Santa Fe, for purely esthetic reasons did paint the lead and rear couplers silver. In fact there was a fellow with cans of aluminum paint in the beginning of the Warbonnet era for that purose in Chicago and L.A. My only other quibble with the Menards unit is that it does not have the screens behind the cab on the roof. I have the engineers instruction book and diagrams for the F3 and F7. They were vents for the dynamic brakes. Menards does not have them, Lionel does. Menards did get vents over the steam generator for heating and the steam jector air conditioning system for the passenger cars correct. Yes. Steam was used for both heating and air conditioning and it worked very well! The Menards Warbonnet F7 are in fact passenger, not freight engines. I don't know about the Blue Bonnets, as I do not have one. They were freight only engines. The only other point is the rear back up.light should not appear as a port hole window in the rear door. It should appear on the left side close to the floor next to the door. It was used by yard hostlers when moving the units in reverse. In the latest TMCC models from Lionel it is correctly and prototypically placed. BDS PS: I forgot about the improved stopping. I suspect Menards engineers added weights to the motor armature! Much better! Also. Santa Fe did have stainless steel toe kicks on the side ladders. Mrnards does. Lionel does not. .BDS

[@dagryffynhobby]

There are certainly differences and omissions. There are still no flywheels, it coasts due to software. It actually stops too slowly. The backup light bothered me as soon as I saw it, I would prefer no rear light.

[@tinytowntrainstv]

Most of the recommends you gave are spot on (bell, horn, speed, true colors... and yes especially the chrome), but they are exactly the same issues as with all of their earlier releases... they haven't really fixed any of them. Like you, I would rather see a solid bell and horn, rather than crew talk (even good crew talk). Full disclosure... I don't own any of these Menards locos, but I do own a lot of Menards buildings and rolling stock which I'm very happy with. But why would I buy their SF paint schemes... they have been done time and time again by Lionel and others, and there are so many used warbonnets out there, on the market, at great prices? Is chrome paint super cheap? I don't think so... and if you think it looks bad on a warbonnet, imagine it with NYC lightening stripes or Pennsy pin-stripes! OMG! In basic black, gray or navy you would already be set to slap just about any shell with just about any paint scheme on it and it would look great... so why? I really can't see buying one unless or until they produce a road name/paint scheme that is less commonly out there and they ditch the chrome! Like you, I try to keep my engines under $250 and there are a lot of solid used choices out there. End of rant. Thanks. T4

[@momatmach1]

First time I remember you reviewing a new engine, first time running one as well, for the money it seems ok, but I will always question how long it will work for, the comparison was with a 70 yrs old Lionel engine, if they both broke one would be straightforward to fix, the other maybe not? Which will be running 50 yrs from now? Having said that if you want the gimmicks and the sounds it’s a fair model.

[@51Kmh]

Great review love the locomotive l agree l can't stand the chrome

[@dagryffynhobby]

Thanks for watching!

[@trainman5603]

I also agree the horn and bell need work. The crew talk is good. Nice play value, but not important to me. BDS

[@dagryffynhobby]

👍

[@Dakman]

Your most expensive Lionel locomotive is $250 but your using a $260 Fluke 73III meter to test the track lol. I totally agree the bell and horn are horrible. I think slow speed is important as well. Question, does the trucks have bushings? If not chrome doesn't make a great surface for a axle to spin in.

[@dagryffynhobby]

It’s not like I bought the fluke recently and that was from when I had a job that I needed it for, and that paid well 😂. I guess I should have used the $10 autozone meter instead! Haha. It looked like there was an insert in the trucks that the axle sat in. I didn’t look too close but yes, there was something.

[@Dakman]

@dagryffynhobby well if you used the $10 auto zone meter then I wouldn't be able to bust on you lol. Remember that there are other channels in the mechanical repair industry. I own a Fluke meter and Fluke Amp clamp along with a few Fluke accessories, but all for my job.

[@dagryffynhobby]

@@Dakman I love a nice amp clamp!

[@alanstagg8781]

Dave -what transformer are you referring to using in this video? Obviously your not running on the 18V power pack and Menards track that came with the set I bought a few months ago. Thanks.

[@dagryffynhobby]

I was probably using a postwar Lionel transformer, I don’t think I had my ZW connected so maybe a 1033. Whichever it was it was most likely set to about 10-12v

[@alanstagg8781]

Thanks much.

[@davidkoehler136]

the Blue ones came out today

[@dagryffynhobby]

I saw that. Wonder if it sold out yet.

[@frankmarkovcijr5459]

One time I got a Williams engine that one truck was greased and the other one wasn't and the other one loaded up with chips from the gears and locked up solid.

[@dagryffynhobby]

That’s nuts! Whenever I ge something I always intend to inspect and lube it first but usually I’m too impatient!

[@wayneantoniazzi2706]

Definately the exception rather than the rule with a Williams engine, at least in my case. The only problem I've had with a Williams was loose screws on one of the engine's trucks ( A D&H Shark) that I bought used. Tightened the screws up and no problems since. I also wired the motors in series to "tame" them, like every other twin-motor Williams diesel it took off like a rocket when I gave it power. Now there's good slow running with the motors in series.

[@frankmarkovcijr5459]

@@dagryffynhobby I bought about 20 engines from trainworld when they had a special sale with powered units for $100 and cab unit sets for $200 that came with a free B-unit. I grease my engines every 25 hours because I'll run them for six hours at a time. It was the only one that was not greased but from now on I will inspect some just like you say

[@TheCreativeMind]

It's a decent engine and quality still needs improving. What is the upgrade in this unit? From mine it looks like the number boards got a brighter LED and the operation still looks the same. This Santa Fe is a hauler. It pulled my warbonnet set (3 dummy "B" and 1 dummy "A" units along with 7 aluminum passenger cars). The chrome was the biggest complaint with this engine. Menards wants our feedback to make the next engine better but all we've been seeing is tiny improvements like the slower take off and stop, a "longer" horn and along with an improved paint scheme of a blue bonnet engine. Is there a contract that they need to release X amount of units with this finish and programming before a makeover is due? Whenever these models are released they are sold out in an hour or so. It took 4 to 6 hours to sell 200 units of the Beta 4.5 locomotive. The popularity is not as strong as the hype was when everybody tried to get one. Lots of people put out video reviews (including me) with operation, small changes and problems, and it looks like not much has changed. Again quality issues, some people didn't like the engine and returned it back to Menards. Menards didn't want inventory on their shelf so they would say NEW BETA X.0 OR X.5 is on sale now (this happened after Beta 3.0). All those engines sold had problems. I know because I use to work in sales 20 years ago. Dave, as far as power goes, I think Menards did not intend for these units to operate at 18 volts but at a lower voltage that allowed the locomotive to creep on the tracks. Im basing this information on their non powered "A" units with the capacitor issue. Menards claims they never had their capacitor blow on them while almost everyone said theirs popped or exploded. This is because all radio engines need 18 VAC to run and we all assumed this Santa Fe needed the same input voltage. We need instructions like you said.

[@dagryffynhobby]

I’m content with it so far. It would be nice if they included a sheet that shows what they changed after the previous release. I’ve found the engine seems to work well around 10v as long as I don’t want too much speed. This engine pulls my 5 postwar aluminum passenger cars better than a lot of my engines. So I can’t fault it there. And I haven’t had to turn the dial up higher on the remote to get it to move, even with that weight behind it. It’s certainly not perfect but it isn’t that bad either. I don’t quite understand the hate some people have for it.

[@dennis2494]

I would also like to see Bluetooth added to the engine so it would compete better the lion chief engines.

[@dagryffynhobby]

Bluetooth would be a neat addition but I’m ok without it if it keeps cost down.

[@wayneantoniazzi2706]

Bluetooth electronics would greatly add to the cost which is what I believe Menard's is trying to avoid.

[@Ramirez241]

Just purchased Menard's Union Pacific 4.5. Had same squeaking going on, little bit of Grease and Oil did the trick. But had to remove shell to gain access to worm gear and inner axle bushings. I think the Crew talk is amazing, out performs most of the my Lionel Lionchief's. LionChief's will crawl at amazing slow speeds and use the same scenario with Transformer at 90-100% throttle and use remote. Don't see why Menard's cant get a better slow speed. Most of my Lionchief's were bought around $300 to $500 (2.0 version). Will keep Menard's 4.5 as it's still a decent running locomotive. So glad they got rid of that ugly Chrome.

[@dagryffynhobby]

Nice. Yeah if they come out with an east coast road name, I’ll pick one up. I agree the crewtalk is pretty good, better than the lionchief version. But the lionchief 2.0 sure beats the Menards badly as far as slow speed is concerned.

[@monmixer]

Welcome to digital. I'm still trying to figure out the difference between blue tooth and DCC.

[@dagryffynhobby]

There is a difference? lol

[@monmixer]

@@dagryffynhobby There appears to be. I think a lot of the audio on the bluetooth units comes from the remote or your phone instead of the engine. Hard to tell which ones do because the box doesn't clarify all of the time.

[@tedansley]

You can use any AC transformer and probably only need 40 watts. Pretty sure like Lionchief you can also use a DC transformer.

[@dagryffynhobby]

Good to know.

[@franktino6676]

Sounds like the Chinese forgot to add the sweet & sour sauce to the egg roll !

[@dagryffynhobby]

Hahahaha

[@Joe30101]

Ido think you can use the rebates online.

[@dagryffynhobby]

I’ll double check. I couldn’t last time I had one.

[@johnblair8146]

Closer to the length of an FP7 (longer to accommodate steam generator water tanks for Passenger service) than an F7.

[@dagryffynhobby]

Makes sense!

[@richardnelson-ux1zz]

Everyone has their own opinions I happen to like the menards santafe beta 4.5 locomotive

[@dagryffynhobby]

There sure are plenty of opinions and some of them unnecessarily strong, it’s a toy, it works, and like you, I like mine. I’ve been impressed with it since I’ve been running it more. It’s a good puller.

[@Ed-ICE-Berg]

Menard’s has been doing the chrome thing since day one and no one in that company seems to have paid attention to the customer complaints. For some it’s no biggie, for the rest of us it’s absurd.

[@johnblair8146]

If they did away with the chrome plating, it would probably recoup the cost of using real gears.

[@kenhoganson9481]

Its a toy, not a scale model. Context is important.

[@dagryffynhobby]

The scale models are toys too, it’s a hobby of toys. Some just look better than others.

[@geraldporteus6404]

What about heat as earlier Lionel’s turned the roof into a humpback. I didn’t see open grates on the engine at all. Does this engine put out a lot of heat and is it made in China.

[@dagryffynhobby]

I assume it’s made in China, but I didn’t look. The modern electronics and motors don’t run as hot as the old style ones. I ran this for a while and did not detect any significant heat.

[@geraldporteus6404]

@@dagryffynhobby I am with you as your observation and problems say don’t bother with this ,wait and see.

[@geraldporteus6404]

I just love toy trains ,but have a hard time with all the train companies. They only present to us what they want to sell us. We modeler’s buy only what they sell. That makes us subject to there products no matter what it is. We as modelers put up with with trains we don’t want but turn around and buy them. That’s what keeps the always exiting train products (fakes that seem endless) and cost to keep rising. This takes the scale out of modeling not mention it to be an authentic replica. So my wait and see attitude let’s me say send it back. Make what should’ve been a train to buy.

[@DirtyHarryLarryDickman]

Postwar Lionel looks better and will be running long after the Chinesium Menards will be trashed. Heck the Marx versions look better IMO. Nice review and this train is just typical modern trash.

[@dagryffynhobby]

So you won’t be buying one? Lol. It’s not for everyone, I just wanted to see if it worked. And it does. For now.

[@DirtyHarryLarryDickman]

@dagryffynhobby No lol. If it doesn't say made in USA it doesn't go onto my track

[@stephenmaddox4434]

ARE THOSE CRAGAR CHROME WHEELS??!!! 😂😂😂

[@dagryffynhobby]

Oh yeah!

[@tedansley]

First, lights on should not affect top voltage much. You conflating voltage and current. The lights will draw some small amount of Amps. Top voltage to the tracks should eventually always be the same except for slightly lower voltages in long tracks with no feeds. I have a Menards AA Santa Fe Blue set. It actually died 10 minutes in. I returned it to Menards, took several Months but has run well ever since. I paid $199 for the set, plus $20 shipping. Overall I like it and it's inexpensive by today's standards.

[@dagryffynhobby]

Did they send you a completely new engine or fix the one you sent in? Did they say what was wrong with it?

[@tedansley]

@@dagryffynhobby Good questions. First it ran at first fine then would only runs backwards and died after 10 minutes. They answered every time I emailed. Initially I called and they were great. I think it's the same one, but honestly not 100% sure. It's the same box. I should have put a small sharpie mark on it. Do they have serial numbers? The new one has been great, I like the AA set? I've run it a bunch.

[@dagryffynhobby]

@@tedansley nice. As long as it works now I guess it doesn’t matter if it’s the same or not. I wish I had picked up an AA.

[@tedansley]

The solution for slower is turn your transformer down. You really only need 12-14v to run these. You will get better throttle response. EDIT: I turned my transformer down, and it starts up slower but pulling power and top speed will be lowered.

[@dagryffynhobby]

I actually ran it all the way down to 5 volts and it ran nice and slow. I’ve found very acceptable performance at just around 10 volts

[@tedansley]

@@dagryffynhobby I actually tried mine even lower just today, it does work well at 10v and my Lionchief Hudson stream engine worked fine too

[@ronalddevine9587]

Has anyone other than me noticed the plastic gears? SHORT LIFE SPAN

[@dagryffynhobby]

It’s been mentioned by many. I’m not particularly bothered by them. Plastic is used in place of metal for a lot of things these days. There are high end cars with plastic oil pans. It’s crazy, but it works.

[@genemanno1533]

Having an engine that talks is of no use to me, quieter the better. I have never understood anybody’s need for sounds and hand held remotes. It divorces any connection to the spirit of toy trains. But for $200 (and still plastic gears) they have to give you something. Ok for other’s but count me out. I’ll stay with far less costly, quieter, and simpler Lionel post war stuff (with metal gears & couplers). Agree the flash chrome is useless bling. Too bad you had to “fix” it right out of the box. I do like your honest evaluation. But for the $200 not interested when I could get 4 post war engines for a bit less.

[@dagryffynhobby]

I get drawn to the sounds but then sick of them pretty quickly. I agree, quieter is better. There are many engines I would rather spend the money on, many!

[@frankmarkovcijr5459]

Lionel would put Eveready batteries in their trains and when you bought a New Old stock train that was 40 years old or whatever the battery would leak and eat the frame and the guts of the locomotive,. I watch a court show where a guy had a set of f3's and the battery had leaks but it was in the master carton and the hobby shop owner said if I opened it up it loses value because it is not sealed so they found for the hobby shop owner

[@dagryffynhobby]

Interesting

[@frankmarkovcijr5459]

It should have metal horn so they don't break off 📴

[@dagryffynhobby]

Agree!

[@frankmarkovcijr5459]

@@dagryffynhobby if the horns were metal on the locomotive they would not have broken off in the first place. It is so disappointing to pull a brand new engine out of a box and find pieces broken 💔

[@OldFrailandDecrepit]

Affordable, usable, and do what it’s supposed to do…sounds like the definition of Marx!

[@dagryffynhobby]

Good point! But I’m sure this won’t be working on 70 years!

[@ronalddevine9587]

What I don't understand is why don't they test, test, and test some more at the factory??? Seems logical to me. Most companies do it that way. You who keep buying their unproven experiments are doing the testing for them and then are stuck with an imperfect piece of inferior stuff. Buy vintage, it rarely has issues.

[@wayneantoniazzi2706]

I said the same when the first Menards engine came out. In my opinion they're doing it bass-ackwards. First you build the prototype, then torture test it as much as possible to find out where the bugs are, THEN you put it on the market. Dave's apparantly got a pretty good one so it seems to me Menards is getting close but if it was up to me I wouldn't have done it that way.

[@ronalddevine9587]

@@wayneantoniazzi2706 I try real hard not to buy junk.

[@dagryffynhobby]

I assume they have tested and tested. The engine I received is decent quality. A beta test gives time for feedback from the consumer and improvements before a wide scale release. I have no problem with it.

[@kendraarden1168]

*promo sm*

[@frankmarkovcijr5459]

I hate the new Lionel they are blood sucking money from hobbyists just for the name on The box. They get everything from China. Chinese quality at american-made prices. For beginners and newbies in the hobby used locomotives are the way to go. It says you're not have all the electronics in you're a locomotive it will be cheap and reliable. That is why I like conventional control only with no crew talk engine sound or speed control. All that crap message up and it's very expensive to fix. Please excuse the poor grammar I have a smartphone that is stupid

[@dagryffynhobby]

I will always prefer the old trains.

[@daivdwalker2374]

Prolly coming from the wheels

[@dagryffynhobby]

What, the squeak? It was the axles

[@jodysmith8048]

I don't think Menards will ever have a full production locomotive and I think everyone eventually is going get fed up with Menards because they'll just keep bata testing until everyone finally looses interest and loose hope that Menards will ever have a full production locomotive

[@dagryffynhobby]

That may very well be the case but I’m going to do my best to remain optimistic!

[@justice4all170]

After seeing the nylon gears I would never buy this or any other with nylon gears. They won't last over time.

[@dagryffynhobby]

The plastic gears of today are better than the ‘70s gears. There are many benefits to plastic gears, depending on use and service, they can last just as long.

[@johnschultz9023]

Athearn makes HO scale locomotives. They've been equipping them with delrin gears since the late 1960's. Mine still runs fine.

[@joefin5900]

Go to 6:21; nose stripe is sagging down! Poor finish on this model.

[@dagryffynhobby]

I think I pointed that out, didn’t I? If not I meant to.

[@johnblair8146]

Plastic gears are a BIG no for me.

[@wayneantoniazzi2706]

Me too! Having been a copier repair tech for thirty years I've had my fill of plastic gears, especially if they mate up with metal ones. Sooner or later that metal gear's going to wear out the plastic one, sometimes sooner, sometimes later, but it's going to happen eventually. I had a Lionel U34CH with the above combination, the plastic gears wore out and I couldn't get replacements! So I took the Lionel shell and put it on a Williams GP9 chassis. The Williams Geep has all-metal gears so my worries are over.

[@johnblair8146]

@@wayneantoniazzi2706 Plastic gears are why MPC diesels are GARBAGE. MPC steamers with plastic gears are OK (no worm gears, less torque) and so are the newer lionel diesels with can motore built into the trucks. They don't develop the torque that the Pullmors and the big can motors on the Menards units do.

[@wayneantoniazzi2706]

@@johnblair8146 Good information, thanks! Not that I'm likely to go looking for an MPC era diesel, I'm a steam freak and as far as I'm concerned "Steam rules! Diesels suck!" But I have made exceptions when a diesel looks cool and it's on sale! That U34CH I mentioned was a Jersey Transit diesel and being an old Jersey Guy (now living in Virginia) I still root for the home team so I bought the NJT set. Besides, it was on sale! And I'm still staying away from plastic gears!

[@johnblair8146]

@@wayneantoniazzi2706 As a Jersey guy you ought to recognize my avatar as being derived from an Erie Lackawanna logo. (I even color matched it to EL's colors). as such, I LOVED your comment about the U-34-CH (EL class MCPG 33-8) While I'm not a Jersey guy, I am from the backwaters of the DL&W in Baldwinsville, NY

[@wayneantoniazzi2706]

@@johnblair8146 Ah, the old E-L! I should have picked up on it right away! Anyway, I'm from Paramus NJ and my town didn't have any railroads (Except for the Public Service Hudson River Line trolley, abandoned in 1938, on the border of Paramus and Rochelle Park) but we did have the Erie to the east of us in River Edge and to the west of us in Ridgewood. We got missed!

[@frankmarkovcijr5459]

I would buy MTH 🚂🚃 search because you would get a locomotive track cars at a transformer. Much better bargain than buying just a locomotive

[@dagryffynhobby]

And I wouldn’t normally have purchased something like this, but it was an interesting exercise