Tom Holland on History, Christianity, and the Value of the Countryside | Conversations with Tyler

Historian Tom Holland joined Tyler to discuss in what ways his Christianity is influenced by Lord Byron, how the Book of Revelation precipitated a revolutionary tradition, which book of the Bible is most foundational for Western liberalism, the political differences between Paul and Jesus, why America is more pro-technology than Europe, why Herodotus is his favorite writer, why the Greeks and Persians didn’t industrialize despite having advanced technology, how he feels about devolution in the United Kingdom and the potential of Irish unification, what existential problem the Church of England faces, how the music of Ennio Morricone helps him write for a popular audience, why Jurassic Park is his favorite movie, and more.
Recorded February 1st, 2023
Transcript and links: conversationswithtyler.com/ep...
Tom’s latest book: www.amazon.com/Dominion-Chris...
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Photo credit: Sadie Holland

[@warmcoffee226]

Really strong interviewer. Came for Holland subscribed for him. Loved this interview. That Bryron question was incredible

[@OneMansOdyssey]

I enjoyed the pointed questions, and it was great to get straight to the point with Tom, who has such insight on these topics.

[@alexgibson2871]

fascinating question on Paul's letter to the Galatians and the roots of liberalism.

[@RegiumGroup]

The mention of Cricket actually kept me in this conversation.. other than the fact that Holland is just such an amazing explainer of history!

[@eveningprimrose3088]

I enjoyed this interview very much. To the points, and eclectically informative.

[@GilesMcRiker]

There aren't many interviewers who do as much prep work and really dig their teeth into the intellectual influences of their guests

[@markwalker5948]

What a wonderful conversation. Thank you both very much fellas.

[@johncarroll772]

Elisha and the cuddly Bears is one of my favourite Bible stories.

[@doyle6000]

I will be listening to The Rest is History more from now on!!

[@user-sn9pz9ng6v]

I liked the short questions. Period.

[@gregorytoews8316]

Why? It's jerky and rough, and prevents flow.

[@doyle6000]

@@gregorytoews8316 yes, I did kind of find Tyler's questioning a bit abrupt, and that he doesn't really engage with the answers.

[@tuckerbugeater]

@@doyle6000 it's an hour interview

[@doyle6000]

@@tuckerbugeater yes, the questions are still short and abrupt, Tom just talks for a long time

[@Bhadradd]

Very good presentation. Totally support your views, brother.

[@justforfunlol2258]

Why didn't you ask him about Zendaya

[@MichaelWilliams-ph4ri]

8:30 It is interesting that in the 'a thousand years' verse, there is no article 'a' in the Greek, nor the number one, and further the word 'thousand' along with 'years' is actually in the plural. So properly it is multiple (at least 2) 'thousands years'.

[@johnhaynes9910]

Excellent interview :)

[@ropeburnsrussell]

For some reason, im surprised that historians feel nostalgia. Tom, i like you even more now. Pro hedgehog all the way!

[@hglundahl]

I am happy to hear of the hedgehog!

[@johncarroll772]

Like Tom's use of Del Boy language

[@rontimus]

It's great to hear Tom address the Zoroastrian viewpoint (38:50), and how they moralized everything... Did you know that NIETZSCHE titled his epic "Thus Spoke Zarathustra" (and not "Thus Spoke Jesus" or "Thus Spoke Moses") because he viewed the Persians as the FIRST to make the MISTAKE of moralizing everything? Even though Nietzsche's book is full of references to the Bible (where he attempts to correct biblical morality), it's central character is a "reformed" Zoroaster who abandons his moralizing that Tom so excellently explains here.

[@doyle6000]

that's interesting, thanks

[@user-zj2kp7mm7x]

finally, the tom holland i've been searching for. it's about time we got something

[@bartolo498]

22:00 I think that this is one of the typological inversions/relativizations that makes the OT progressive in some ways. The natural order is that power/inheritance goes to the firstborn but God choses whom he elects/blesses and inverts the natural order. Conflict often arises between the natural order and the divine election. Isaac is the younger (although from the main wife), Jacob is the younger (and a deceiver), Joseph is the youngest but one, Moses is younger than his two mentioned siblings, David is the youngest of many sons. It's probably related to the other frequent inversion of nature, namely the infertile woman/couple having an unexpected but special child: Isaac, Samson, Samuel, John the Baptist, also (according to legend, Mary) and, in a sense, Jesus if one goes with the tradition that Mary had taken a vow of virginity and Joseph was an older man who had agreed to a formal marriage without intention for intercourse and procreation.

[@almilligan7317]

Amazing how much Christianity, Judaism, and Islam owes to the Persian Zoroastrianism and the Ahora Mazda, the good religion.

[@MichaelWilliams-ph4ri]

54:41 The church is there to inform the state when it gets out of alignment with the 'line of thought' that originated those things in the first place. The state will always try to be God, and it must be reigned in or all the freedoms you value will vaporize.

[@hglundahl]

7:51 You are reading things into St. Augustine. He certainly does take a stance against one thing which could be seen as Apocalypse Literalism, i e Millennialism, and I share that. We are not heading for the Millennium, we are heading towards its end. But apart from that, _City of God_ is about as literalistic about the Apocalypse as _Left Behind._ It's also as literalistic about Genesis as Kent Hovind, apart from the six days of Creation. Actually not sure if City of God even mentioned his own preference (De Genesi ad Litteram Libri XII + Confessions do mention it) for a one moment creation.

[@michaelandrewsalomonenewje4107]

Was Elizabeth II descended from Alfred The Great, or more the Hanoverians, or both?

[@insiderinside1905]

Holland hasn’t understood evangelical and Quaker abolitionism as explicitly rooted in the bible: Just Read exodus 21:16 where the death penalty is prescribed for “man-stealing” (the Old Testament word for slave trading). He’s only trivially correct with regard to diction.

[@hglundahl]

7:18 _"it wasn't included in the canon of the New Testament in the Orthodox Church until the _*_tenth_*_ Century"_ That's not from historic sources, Mr. Holland, it's from conversations with nincompoops who managed to be competent _sounding_ to you! The last recorded NT canon (outside ultra-weird things like Cathars) without an Apocalypse (if that is even true) is from the Council of Laodicaea, 353 or sth .... since Pope St. Damasus, all Apostolic Churches have recognised the Apocalypse.

[@williamfarmer5154]

Mr. Holland seems to be a fan of the Papal revolution, but it has to be admitted that this was the primary cause of the Great Schism.

[@johncarroll772]

Peppa Pigs brother George is based on Tom.

[@michaelandrewsalomonenewje4107]

Complicated or not, put Ireland back together. I have no vested interest other than justice and to be relieved of hearing of their struggle for 800 years.

[@michaelandrewsalomonenewje4107]

Yes, well I don’t think Catholic or protestant should be the main issue anymore unless Britain is hundreds of years behind the times.

[@peterbarker8249]

...ahhhhh, The briti'sh..... 😮

[@doyle6000]

Don't you mean "Bri'ish"?

[@Hbmd3E]

@@doyle6000thats eauiful

[@robmckay5421]

I am amazed at Tom Holland's knowledge of the Bible considering that he is an atheist.

[@Denisemariee2u]

I don't think he is an atheist any longer

[@Hbmd3E]

@@Denisemariee2uHe is considering himself as christian, but its kinda cultural christian I guess. He have not experienced miraculous and doesnt believe it. ( Jesus divinity I guess,.. he would like to believe or so ..) Because due his work in History study, he realized that almost all values we have even things like secularity and rights are rising from the Christianity

[@michaelandrewsalomonenewje4107]

Give Northern Ireland, Ulster, back to the Irish, make it part of the Republic of Ireland. Ifto stop hearing the belly aching. It’s one island. Instruct them how to get along and be free and just to each other. The rest of the island of Britain you can leave how it is. So endeth the lesson.

[@wolfa5151]

Religion was invented when the first con man met the first fool.

[@hglundahl]

7:51 You are reading things into St. Augustine. He certainly does take a stance against one thing which could be seen as Apocalypse Literalism, i e Millennialism, and I share that. We are not heading for the Millennium, we are heading towards its end. But apart from that, _City of God_ is about as literalistic about the Apocalypse as _Left Behind._ It's also as literalistic about Genesis as Kent Hovind, apart from the six days of Creation. Actually not sure if City of God even mentioned his own preference (De Genesi ad Litteram Libri XII + Confessions do mention it) for a one moment creation.

[@michaelandrewsalomonenewje4107]

Complicated or not, put Ireland back together. I have no vested interest other than justice and to be relieved of hearing of their struggle for 800 years.

[@michaelandrewsalomonenewje4107]

Yes, well I don’t think Catholic or protestant should be the main issue anymore unless Britain is hundreds of years behind the times.