Metal Finishing With Mark - Metal Engraving 101

[@ArnoldsDesign]

This channel deserves more subs. I always wanted a laser. When I was doing glass etching and engraving in the 90's, even a Universal 25watt co2 was about $15k. Way too much. They used to use the Cermark for aluminum I remember. I didn't realize it was so expensive. Your parts turned out great.

[@Preso58]

I haven't tried the zinc paint on aluminium, or brass but I can't see why it won't work. I must have a go. We had a Versalaser at school for a few years and they retailed here in Australia for $40K but they were wonderful machines. The laser I have now sat in a shed for several years because it was broken when we got it and the vendor was a crook who refused to honour the warranty. I tried everything to make it go and eventually decided to give it a brain transplant and fit a LightObject digital signal processor. Lo and behold, it fixed the thing and it now functions reasonably well. Regards, Mark

[@DougsMessyGarage]

A couple of items: If you want to try a laser cutter/engraver, a cheap Chinese K-40 is a good place to start. It comes with the garbage software that you mention but Scorchworks have created K-40 Whisperer which is a free add-on for Inkscape and does the interface duty between your computer and the laser. If someone does get a K-40 laser, they need to think of it as a pre-assembled kit that needs to nearly be completely disassembled and put back together correctly to work the way it should. The K-40 was created for a purpose and it will need some tweaking to be useful in a home shop. Also, make sure to install a door safety switch as the stock K-40 doesn't come with one. Another safety point, CO2 lasers are extremely hazardous to the human eye. Make sure you use specific CO2 laser protective glasses when operating the laser. Eye damage can happen in an instant and be permanent. Secondly, I like the "diamond drag" engraving. I might have to see if I can come up with something like that which will work in my CNC router table. Great video as always.

[@Preso58]

Thanks for the comments. The company I purchased my DSP from makes a lot of their money from selling specific upgrades for the K40. Given the size and capacity of that machine it is a good entry level platform for home shop enthusiasts. Regards, Mark

[@TAWPTool]

Mark! My index finger has been hovering over the Buy it Now button on a 50w laser cutter/engraver for days. This video just drove me over the edge. I also have a diamond drag engraver that I have yet to use. Awesome video and thanks for sharing!

[@Preso58]

I hope you get as much use and enjoyment from your laser as I have from mine. It's a bulky machine but there are so many ways to use it. I have heard of people laser cutting custom shapes from ham! Regards, Mark

[@JBFromOZ]

I've struggled with the concept of paying for Cermark spray myself, now to get some cold galv, lots of awesome new projects just became a stack easier!!! thanks for sharing Mark

[@Preso58]

Cheap and cheerful! Regards, Mark

[@matthewf1979]

That melting on the back of the SS/Zinc sample is caused by oxidation/crystallization. Like with the TIG process, it should be purged with argon gas to avoid the issue. It doesn’t really matter in this case, but if you were to do this laser process on a safety critical part, it should be purged. Thanks for another wonderful and entertaining video Presso!

[@ClaytonwFirth]

Matt Fields another option is solar flux b.. purging with argon in a lazer could be difficult.

[@markthompson4885]

many hours of work and you make it look so easy.

[@nikond90ful1]

Thanks for the video Mark. Keep safe and stay well.

[@stephenmurray2335]

Excellent series Mark, really enjoyed it. Cheers!

[@lv_woodturner3899]

Very interesting video. I would like a laser one day. The Bridgeport knob looks terrific. Amazing that the metal slightly distorts with the heat. Good choice for the text mark for the bandsaw table. Dave.

[@Preso58]

I have yet to try the zinc paint method on aluminium and brass. Hopefully it works as well. Maybe I'll do a follow up with the final metal finishing video. Regards, Mark

[@tomeyssen9674]

Really nice. Great presentation! Yes, I do want one.....now.

[@larrymac8538]

Very nifty laser work Mark!

[@joehosie]

Wow Mark ! Great video yet again!

[@cbsos4u52]

I really enjoyed the subject matter in this video, alloying of the zinc on stainless gave an impressive finish, on that matter as a panelbeater we use a copper spray on the surfaces before spot welding, for weld rust protection. I wonder what resulting colour you would get as a contrast with its use, I'm picking copper red. The resulting surface distortion can be reversed with a slightly covexed drift being driven from the back on to an end grain wood block.

[@Preso58]

Chris, after making this video I tried using some copper based anti seize paste on both aluminium and stainless steel but both failed to give any discernible change in the colour of the metal. I also tried the zinc based paint on brass and aluminium sheet metal and again, no change. So, it only seems to work on stainless steel but there's plenty of scope for experimentation. Regards, Mark

[@whatevericall]

Great video mark. You are actually annealing the metal with a long slow heat. Its a great non destructive marking. We do it with fiber lasers. You can also use dry molly lube. The co2 wave length doesnt actually burn your skin. Its boiling your fluids from the inside out. It stops when it hits bone :) It looks like you are using some sort of Ruida controller as that looks like a dodgy version of RD Works. There is a manual online. If that is true, you will be able to use Lightburn. Its far superior and will save the rest of your hair. I hope this helps a bit

[@Preso58]

I actually tried a copper anti seize on some aluminium and brass today and it was a total failure. The zinc paint did nothing on those metals as well. So far it seems that stainless is the only candidate for this process. Cermark does work on copper, brass and aluminium but the cost is the main deterrent for me. Maybe it's made of unicorn tears or something? The DSP on my laser is now a AWC608 unit from LightObject in the USA. It has now been superseded but the Lasercad software that it uses is a bit clunky but it is way better that the original pirated software that shipped with the laser as we received it. I do all my design on Coreldraw and then just export the drawing as a DXF file. Regards, Mark

[@jonnafry]

Really must get myself a "Laser" .... nice demonstration of effective techniques.

[@Bigredkarl]

I wish i could rate u with more than a thumbs up. Great job my dude.

[@Preso58]

I appreciate that! Regards, Mark

[@peterwooldridge7285]

Really informative Mark....thanks

[@MISOLPH]

Hi Mark, I'm new to the channel. Fantastic video, very informative. Now to bing the rest!

[@Preso58]

Trent, welcome aboard! I hope you enjoy the back catalogue. Regards, Mark

[@c4fishfood]

Try using your mill vice to press the warped stainless disc flat again. The jaws are typically flat and smooth to not leave a mark, and the compression pressure on a mill vice is immense

[@Balsamancnc]

Hi Mark, if you go to General Config in Mach 3 then under Screen Control select "Auto Screen Enlarge" your Mach 3 screen will be full screen. :) Nice job.

[@Preso58]

Thanks for the tip! Regards, Mark

[@tahuyaguy]

"Ask me how i know." lol Nothing beats experience-based learning, Ask me how I know.

[@Preso58]

Aaron, the thing is, when I got myself burned I was doing some maintenance on the first Chinese laser we purchased at school. The vendor we purchased it from was unscrupulous and although he promised ongoing phone support, I could never get him on the phone. I had to do all our trouble shooting by email and it would sometimes take him days to answer my questions. The software that came with the machine was terrible and the documentation was in badly translated English. I was trying to set up the home point on the machine and was firing the laser with a hardware switch on the control panel of the laser. It is supposed to pulse the laser as long as the button is pressed. But there was also a software switch which was supposed to do the same job, however it turned the laser on and then left it on. I put my hand inside to place another piece of stock in and got my thumb between the second and third mirror. I felt a hot burn like passing your finger close to a lit candle and thought "Wow, how did that happen?" There was quite a red mark but over the next two days the burn got worse as the tissue broke down and it took nearly a month to heal. I learned never to trust the software controls and I only test the laser with a hardwired switch! You only do things like that once, hopefully. Regards, Mark

[@tahuyaguy]

I can almost feel the pain. I thoroughly enjoy the videos, Mark, thanks. The band saw table looks great.

[@dale9896]

Great job mate as usual.

[@texacajundiy]

fine work!

[@CPUDOCTHE1]

You are right. I wish we had a laser engraver. And a 3D printer. We have done some electro-etching. My wife has a Cri-Cut to cut the mask. When we make something that has to be cut out on the CNC Plasma table, we cut my son's logo in it if we don't forget. There are a couple of aluminum pieces that we anodized that I wish we had electro-etched before anodizing. i have not tried electro-etching the anodized parts, but don't see it working since anodized aluminum is non-conductive.

[@m1geo]

Really useful series! Does the zinc spray laser engraving work on aluminium, or only stainless steel? Thanks!

[@Preso58]

George, unfortunately it only works on stainless steel. I tried it on brass and aluminium and it failed to make any mark at all. I think it works on stainless because the zinc gets hot enough to alloy with one or more elements in the base metal. I understand that the Cermark spray does work on other metals but it's very expensive. The zinc based paints are relatively cheap and you get excellent contrast on stainless and of course the underlying metal is immune to oxidation and tarnishing.

[@m1geo]

@@Preso58 Thanks Mark! I did a bit of digging after seeing this video, and I notice that others are doing it on ceramics and glass. Interesting! I've bought some zinc spray to have a play! Cheers!

[@WastedProps]

Absolutely fantastic videos mate, very informative and done in such a way that it's easy to follow and materials easily sourced in Aus. I just got a 130w laser and will be using your techniques for my replica props. :-) keep up the great videos. WP

[@KarlBunker]

This was super Interesting, Informative, and (channeling an Australian accent for the sake of alliteration) "Intertaining"! Thanks for a great video!

[@griffo3043]

Nice work Mark. You know OmTech sell a powder you mix with iso for $40 to do the same as the zinc it's blacker unlike the zinc but nice to have two options.

[@Preso58]

Thanks, I'll check that out. Regards, Mark

[@danielnaylor6498]

Love your content Mark (I much prefer an Aussie makers and a fellow Queenslanders perspective)! I have been using molybdenum spray as an alternative to Cermark but the gal spray would make a much more cost effective option, I am keen to give it a try. I have been experimenting with using argon instead of air to help with the oxidation and warping, with varying success to date. Do you have much experience with applying black oxide or blueing coatings at home? I have been using Caswell's offering with mixed results. Might be a good continuation of the finishes series (if you haven't done this already; I am only new to your channel).

[@danielnaylor6498]

Forget the comment about black oxide coatings, I found your parkerising information.

[@Preso58]

That's good. I was just about to direct you to that video. I have had a lot of success with parkerising. I have parts in my shop that have been exposed to the humid Qld weather for years now and they are still rust free and they look great. Regards, Mark

[@skunkjobb]

Do you think the warping due to heat on the thin disc can be reduced by putting it on some form of heat sink, maybe with some heat conductive gel between? The heat sink could be just a chunk of aluminium.

[@Preso58]

Maybe, I haven't ever bothered to avoid the distortion. You could just use thicker material but I haven't tried that either. I am doing some more experiments shortly on brass and aluminium so I'll see if it works on thicker material then. Regards, Mark

[@bobvines00]

Mark, does the soot from the burned MDF cause any problems with the lens/laser? Does oil from fingerprints cause any problems with laser etching? Seeing your DIY plate for the mill's speed control makes me want to get a laser set-up like this just for making professional-looking dials, etc. ;) Since your "zinc galv." paint worked so well and made an alloy with the stainless, I wonder how well a copper-based paint would work? The drag-engraved Maker's plate crumbled because the plate was _hard_ anodized. The "coating" is much harder than the base aluminum and is obviously a bit brittle, but gives a relatively wear-resistant surface. I'm looking forward to your next "Metal Finishing with Mark" video. These are great!

[@Preso58]

Bob, there is an air blower which delivers air to the lens assembly of the laser head so that nothing should be able to enter the nozzle to contaminate the lens. I leave the air blower on permanently (it has it's own switch) but the master switch activates the laser power supply, the blower and the water chiller pump. It is possible to configure the digital signal processor so that the program will not run if the water chiller or air blower are turned off. Just a few seconds of running with no water circulation can damage or kill the CO2 tube! I don't take any special precautions with preparing materials for laser etching. Dust, oil and fingerprints are vaporised anyway. I am going to do some tests with the zinc paint on brass and aluminium today just to see what happens. If it works I will post it in the next video. It is surprising how hard the anodised surface is compared to regular 6061 alloy. It does keep parts looking good despite being used regularly. I should have the zinc plating video out in a day or two. Regards, Mark

[@bobvines00]

@@Preso58 The "Machine Tech Video Blog" video on "Air Bearings: Anodizing" said that the hard anodized surfaces were up to a bit over 60RC, so no wonder your first pass didn't make you happy. ;)

[@deefadale]

Any idea if this method works on thin PCB copper too? I'm looking for a magic coating for PCB etching with a laser (ie without having to post process with acid etc). Typical PCB copper layer depths are only around the 0.1mm range. Pretty much just want to blast a pattern of copper away to reveal the fr4 (fibreglass) below. Awesome content. Thanks for sharing!

[@Preso58]

I did try it on brass and aluminium and it had absolutely zero effect. It's quite strange that it only seems to work on stainless steel. I also tried copper anti-sieze and it also failed. I did however use powder coat on aluminium and then etched it with the laser to expose the aluminium. I then etched it with sodium hydroxide (caustic soda) and that did work. I have also done the same on brass with acrylic spray paint and etched through with the laser and followed up with normal PCB etchant and that worked well. Regards, Mark

[@deefadale]

@@Preso58 very interesting! Thanks for the reply. I'm sure there is a simple solution out there. I've subscribed to keep up with your future findings!

[@yvesdesrosiers2396]

Well Mr P now I am etching to get a laser now! LOL I will need to save up a year or two though. Thanks for sharing. Cheers

[@Preso58]

Yves, they are not exactly cheap if you buy new but maybe you could look for a used one and upgrade it. Regards, Mark

[@TheDeerInn]

Do you know if it would make any difference in warping of the metal if it were annealed first? Very Cool process, thanks!!

[@Preso58]

Craig, I am not sure. The stainless steel I was using is protected by a plastic film and it has a factory grained finish which would probably get ruined if you heated it up to annealing temperature. Regards, Mark Presling

[@TheCNCDen]

nice to see CAMBAM being used. Incredible software, gets little attention and a bargain pricepoint.

[@Preso58]

I have been using CAMBAM for many years now and it serves me well for 90% of what I do. I also have Fusion360 but it's a bit overkill sometimes. For a while I was using CATIA which has a full suite of CAD/CAM/simulation tools. It was really full on and we were using it to do 3D raster machining of balsa wood blanks for making model F1 cars. We could model the fixture into the machining programme and then quarantine the fixture so that the tool couldn't crash into it. Fun times! Regards, Mark

[@TheCNCDen]

@@Preso58 I never got on with Fusion, never had a PC powerful enough back then, I outsourced a lot of CAD in the early days and the only way I could view the files was Fusion, but it was painfully slow. I've used QCAD for years perfect for 2d, which is all I do. I've not yet found anything CAMBAM can't do in my workload. It may not be as simple as others, but the solution is nearly always there. Every now and then I play with another as a trial, but none have tempted me enough.

[@jesuiskiwi4033]

Double + thumbs up from this Kiwi :)

[@blfstk1]

Good Show Mate...as always. That was fun. Have you just recently acquired a CNC, Bridgeport mill? The only thing wrong with those is I don't have one.

[@Preso58]

The Bridgeport is not CNC enabled but it is new to the shop and I am slowly cleaning it and fixing some minor damage. I have a video coming out shortly showing the process of getting it into the shed. I also had to purchase a rotary phase converter which should be arriving soon. Regards, Mark

[@blfstk1]

@@Preso58 I am jealous. You have a Bridgeport and I don't. Life ain't fair. Use it in good health. I'll just be content with my Rong Fu type 30 Well, I'll try to be content with my type 30. Looking forward to the Bridgeport vid.

[@hjvisagie]

Awesome man

[@nonebiz2132]

I've used a thin layer of "No-sieze" to etch metal with as well, I wonder which is better? The cold zinc paint or the no-sieze coating?

[@Preso58]

I just tried the zinc paint on aluminium and brass today and it did absolutely nothing. It seems the zinc is only effective on stainless steel. Anti seize compounds should be rich in copper. Maybe that would work on brass? I'll have to try it. Regards, Mark

[@nonebiz2132]

@@Preso58 I'm very interested to know as well... I think the blue lasers are more effective on aluminum but don't hold me to that. Thanks for the experimenting, after Covid I hope to be able to experiment too. I have access to a 130W laser at the High School I volunteer at... This guy uses Dry Moly to etch Brass: kzbin.info/www/bejne/sJTXknuOeZWahs0

[@trogpot]

Does zinc coating give off dangerous fumes when engraving

[@Preso58]

Nik, probably, but all laser engravers will have a fan built in to remove smoke and fumes from the cabinet. I run mine near the garage door and have it open so that the exhaust blows outside. You can also fit a remote fan at the end of a long flexible duct and place that well away from where you are working. Some users will also fit a HEPA filter on the end of the duct in case you are working in a basement or enclosed space. Regards, Mark

[@trogpot]

Thank you for replying,keep up the projects.

[@ADBBuild]

We use a 50w laser at work to mark 400-series stainless steel without needing any kind of coating. It creates a dark grey/black marking. Is there a reason your laser can't do this?

[@Preso58]

Is it a CO2 laser? I know fiber lasers can mark and cut metal but they use a different wavelength of light to CO2 laser light. Regards, Mark

[@samantoniak1657]

My local makerspace recently got a 100w co2 laser, and i've yet to try engraving metal. I unfortunately can't do so till this is all over.

[@Preso58]

100 watts is a serious laser. It should cut through 16mm wood in one pass. Regards, Mark

[@EmmaRitson]

yeah i want one. not got room tho

[@greavous93]

Mark, in a more perfect world.... we would be neighbors.

[@pgs8597]

I do want one but my wallet checked the price, It doesn’t concur. Excellent series Mark. Cheers Peter

[@scruffy6151]

👍👍

[@pw3111]

What air pressure are you running for the air assist?

[@Preso58]

If you are referring to the laser engraver, the air is supplied by a small diaphragm pump which is typically low pressure and high volume. It's primary purpose is to blow away smoke and debris from the path of the laser beam. It really has no effect on the cutting performance other than to stop the beam from being obscured. Regards, Mark

[@pw3111]

@@Preso58 Thanks. I was referring to the section when you “burn” the recess into the MDF to hold the round disc. I noticed that the wood surface showed very little sign of burning. I have a diode laser and have an air assist tube coming in from the side. It helps immensely when cutting but when “burning “ a recess in MDF, my surface is not as clean as your and wondered whether it was to do with the air pressure in the air assist system.

[@Preso58]

@@pw3111 It is likely that the air assist does remove the burnt MDF so it is not fused back into the surface by the heat of the laser. I generally run the air blower all the time as it helps to stop dust and soot from coating the final focussing lens. If I am cutting paper or very light materials I will turn the air off so it doesn't blow the cut pieces into the path of the beam. I have seen a lot of videos on diode lasers but I have never used one. They use a different wavelength of light to a CO2 laser tube so I guess they will affect materials differently.

[@m.a1063]

Hi sir, i have problem when I like print in metal galvanized i don't found black results can you give me an solution thank you

[@Preso58]

I'm not sure if you are referring to laser engraving galvanised steel? CO2 lasers under 100W won't mark or engrave any metal. The method I showed for marking stainless steel only works on that metal. The heat of the laser bonds the zinc in the paint to the reactive stainless steel surface. So far I haven't been able to get it to work on any other metal. Regards, Mark

[@davidross3551]

You can bypass the need for the dongle and the terrible Chinese software by using K40Whisperer from scorchworks. It works very well.

[@zomie1]

It is what I use as well. Great software.

[@billbaggins]

Meanwhile us luddites are stuck with nail varnish, a sharp scribe, salt water, Q tips and a battery😁

[@gh778jk]

Who's the smiley bloke in the medallion? Paddy

[@MrRShoaf]

I'm thinking that a tig electrode might work to make your engraving tool for a lot less than $100.

[@Preso58]

Maybe, but you would need to limit the stickout. The carbide is very stiff and it absolutely wont' deflect which would ruin the traced out path. Regards, Mark

[@opendstudio7141]

Always the teacher.😊 But you said hair. Immediately I thought about Absalom and his famed curly locks getting him snagged on tree then killed.

[@Preso58]

Maybe I am confused but Jack Absalom is or was a bit like me, little hair. Maybe you're thinking of Alby Mangels? He did a TV series called World Safari and got into trouble for staging and faking a lot of his "adventures". Regards, Mark Presling

[@opendstudio7141]

@@Preso58 Absolom was King Davids son who tried to usurp the Israel Kingdom.

[@HeathLedgersChemist]

K40 Whisperer is your friend.

[@Preso58]

I haven't had much to do with trying alternatives to Lasercad. I just looked up K40 Whisperer and I will do some follow up on it. From what I read though it appears to be an alternative to Laserdraw which is the software that ships with the little K40 laser. Lasercad is different and although it has it's limitations it is easy enough to use. The LightObject DSP that I fitted to my laser is pretty much tied to the Lasercad software though. I will look into it more. Regards, Mark

[@andrewlockwood6102]

So when exactly does "particular" cross over to "obsessive", with regard to compulsion I wonder? 🤔😜🤣

[@johnnym1320]

That table looks way too nice to use now lol.

[@Watchyn_Yarwood]

Try hot glue.

[@Versosurma]

Im student in watchmaking school and im now in process of designing dial for my end year watch case. Can you anodise those clean areas what laser shot away with different color or will it also ruin blue colour around it?

[@Preso58]

My understanding is that the laser only vaporises the dye. The surface of the aluminium should still be anodised. One way to tell is to check the electrical conductivity of the surface. If it is still anodised it will have a very high resistance. If you were to dip the part into a different coloured dye it might alter the original colour. You might need to experiment to see what effect you get. Regards, Mark