Metal Is Not Music

[@treyxaviermusic]

🎸Black Friday sale is live! All my songwriting courses are 50% off right now: howsongsaremade.com/courses

[@RazvanMihaeanu]

Nemophila - AMA-TE-RAS Listen to that.

[@joshsocshift]

I'd be inclined to disagree; Metal is like a phylogenetic grouping of related types of music, and you can trace the genres back through each other to the foundational idea of Heavy Metal from the late 60s/early 70s, just as we can trace the lineage of animals back through time to see their common ancestors. We can look at reptiles and see that there are commonalities between them (although if you know reptiles, not as many as a layperson may expect) - but just like metal there are almost as many exceptions as there are rules; birds are warm blooded and have feathers rather than scales, turtles have fused ribcages forming shells, many species of lizards don't lay eggs and many don't have legs, some are venomous and other's aren't, and so on... If you look at reptiles, it would be very easy to say 'reptiles are not a type of animal - they are too disparate, and the common trait they share is a backbone'. But they do actually have a shared genetic history and lineage, that we can clearly trace back and see how they're related to each other. And THAT is what metal is; a shared musical lineage and evolution. We can even see the sub-families within it; Death, Thrash and Black are more closely related to each other than they are to Hair Metal and Doom - and we do see shared musical ideas within genres and between closely related genres; Thrash, Death and Black Metal sound more similar to each other than they do to Hair Metal or Doom (generally). We also see the evolution of genres and the passing of traits down the lineage; Power Metal is descended from NWOBHM, but so are Thrash and Hair Metal, and they each have commonalities with that parent genre, like it's technicality, it's tonality, it's lyrical ideas. But they also evolved in different directions and that's where you see the differences between them. Obviously music can cross pollinate and draw influence from unrelated musical families, giving us Nu Metal and Folk Metal (amongst others), which does make drawing the phylogenetic musical family tree somewhat harder, but that's just part of what makes music brilliant. Metal IS a type of music, in the same way that 'Reptile' is a type of animal; it's just that it's such a broad definition and there are so many exceptions to the rules that it's not a particularly USEFUL term to describe something at an individual level.

[@iakirov]

This approach is approved by this biologist, BTW that cross pollination would rather be transversal gene flow instead, given the apparent unrelatedness of branches. This is a very interesting subject to try to trace all lineages pointing out to defining synapomorphies...

[@Patrick-857]

Hence the extreme distaste that many metal purists have for things like numetal and any "core" genre, as these are to metal what a labradoodle is to show dogs. They mixed with forbidden genres that had no relationship with the original lineage of metal. I completely agree with you. It's the lineage of metal that makes it what it is. It's why it's so important for metalheads to be able to identify what genre it is. You can do something new in metal, as long as it has roots in something that came before, otherwise nobody can relate to it.

[@Admiral_Bongo]

Very much what I've been thinking.

[@SuperStrik9]

Great comment.🤘🏻

[@pakoti96]

Thank you for the comment. It was actually painful to watch the whole video on 1x speed slowly making its point when the "refutal" is so straightforward. I say "refutal" because the video is correct about the sound design it misses the mark a little by rejecting other connections between metal subgenres.

[@dathioz]

All music is lounge if you sit down and chill while listening to it

[@gnarlywagner8171]

Thw music genre is in no way defined by the action you do while listening following that logic horror movies are kids movies if you let kids watch them

[@AllyceMusicOFFICIAL]

@@gnarlywagner8171 I mean, I really liked the Blade movies as a kid... definitely not kids movies though, lmao. 😅🖤❤

[@NelsonBlakeII]

Counterpoint: All musical genres aren’t melodically based. Some are groove based and recognizable with only the drums playing. I came upon this while studying funk. There’s that great scene in “Get On Up” where Chadwick(Brown) basically says as long as they’re in the funk pocket, the notes don’t matter. Metal is very similar in this way. You can call it semantics but for me a musical description is accurate when it’s instructive. For metal and funk, the rhythmic templates are instructive more so than the sound design description is.

[@treyxaviermusic]

I mean this whole video is pretty much semantics so I can't criticize you for that hahaha. You're not wrong, BUT I think funk has a few distinct grooves that are unifying across the whole of the style's output - you can recognize metal from the drumming style, but there's no consistency across the whole genre, so we have to eliminate that as criteria.

[@NelsonBlakeII]

@@treyxaviermusic That's a fair way to think about things. I disagree on the basis that if we take the idea in reverse, I can un-metal a track based on rhythm alone(which you pretty much say in the video, but I'm willing to eschew sound design in this thought experiment.) While funk is an island of the coast of jazz/blues, metal is an archipelago. I love the vid and the overall lesson, though, about not getting caught up in the trappings of metal while sacrificing a song. But if I was teaching someone metal, I think I could give them the 10 or so basic rhythmic ideas and be mostly right.

[@johnmcintyre2123]

Yeah, I feel like metal has a distinctive rhythmic/dynamic identity more than a melodic/harmonic one (although I think it often does have some of that stuff in its identity too). Funk is a good comparison. Same goes for hip hop. You can make something hip hop or not by its rhythm alone.

[@NelsonBlakeII]

@@johnmcintyre2123 Turn rap cadences into metal riffs or vice versa and you'll see how true you are. Energetically, I think metal and hip hop are very very close, but structurally so different.

[@ann1hel]

​@@NelsonBlakeIII've always thought slam death metal was just the hip hop of metal

[@InsArtTure]

I kind of understand what this guy means but the example with the chugging on one string defeats his argument. Even if you only hear the piano midi with this riff you immediately know this is metal because no other genre of music chugs one note with such rhythm and speed. This is absolutely a musical characteristic of metal.

[@akiame72]

but not all metal has to have one note chugging though

[@SlyHikari03]

Exactly. Chugging on the low string does not a metal song make.

[@nickmathews6226]

@InsArtTure Try banjos in blue grass. What you're referring to is a distortion pedal, not what's being played.

[@InsArtTure]

@@SlyHikari03 It doesnt but if I hear it, having listened to metal for 25 years, I will believe it IS feom a metal song.

[@TheBlackenedFlagOfXtermination]

​@@InsArtTurethats not the point

[@grandarchon6969]

A woman I worked with asked me about Taylor Swift. I said my favorite genres are melodic or technical death metal, I don't know anything about TS. She said ew, gross. I said I'll play you metal songs I guarantee you'll like some, hate others. In the same song. She agreed. I played her Welcome to Your Doom by Alterbeast. She loved the intro, hated the verse. By the end she realized why people like it, even if it wasn't for her.

[@viral0998hj]

That song oddly reminded me of late 00s deathcore with the usual noodling "technical" riffs

[@hater2764]

Swift has the same enormously, unbelievably bad and destructive influence on the brains of dumb little girls, as on a music as a whole, as an entire climate/environment of this planet.....

[@ParaplegicKeanuReeves]

She probably lives a similar relationship style to TS 💀

[@julenmarcossantamaria2762]

You wasted a lot of time. With reta rds the only right way its sending them to fuk off. Ew gross? Ok fuk off, end of the conversation.

[@MetalDeathHead]

alterbeast? sounds like they ripped off the name and song title from a sega game

[@BrakBnei]

Some pushback: If you applied the same scrutiny to Classical as you did to Metal, then you would come to the same conclusion that Classical isn't music. Bach sounds nothing like Tchaikovsky using your same metrics! The same is true with other parent styles; such as Jazz (smooth vs avant-garde), Country, etc.

[@BrakBnei]

On the flip-side, if I play "Iron Man" on my sitar with a tabla player it still sounds metal AF!

[@treyxaviermusic]

That's not even wrong though, the term Classical (as someone else pointed out in a different comment on here) is applied broadly but wrongly. The different eras (baroque, renaissance, early romantic) of composers sound far more close to each other - Bach was Baroque, and Tchaikovsky was Romantic, so it stands to reason that they don't sound that alike. Classical isn't music. The different eras are like the metal sub-genres - way more in common with each other than with "classical" as a whole. And it's not just about whether or not they SOUND that similar - there are musical elements that are unifying and exclusive that place them in the same category. Outliers like avant-garde jazz don't change the core identity of the rest of the style, we can't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

[@BrakBnei]

@@treyxaviermusic I completely agree with most of what you said. In fact I had originally wrote about the eras of classical music being analogous with the metal sub-genres - but didn't want to post a novel, so I deleted it. :) But there are some core musical elements in metal that links them (agree that we shouldn't allow outliers to discard babies in bathtubs). One major component, that I'll mention now, is the predominate use of parallel 5ths. As you might know, such was forbidden/avoided in classical music (this was mainly driven by changes in tuning/temperament at the time which made the 5th more dissonant in order to have purer 3rds). This in tandem with the propensity of the bass to follow the guitar an octave lower (resulting in them outlining the harmonic series which leads to them sounding like more like one instrument) causes a "heavy sound". We don't call them "power chords" for nothing! :)

[@BrakBnei]

@@treyxaviermusic And yes, one can validity argue that Rock has this same attribute. But I would argue it's much more predominant in Metal. Also maybe the Rock artist are being influenced by the Metal artists (I know of turning Country musicians who were influenced by Black Sabbath). At the end of the day, basically all styles of music will have some overlap with each other. Also one could argue (and this I would agree with) that Metal is a sub-genre of Rock - I don't think anyone would see that as a controversial take..... but we are on the internet.... so..... there's that. lol

[@Admiral_Bongo]

@@treyxaviermusic There's a term universally applied to all those eras, though, which is "academic music".

[@chasinglatitudes1424]

I’m 52 so when I was growing up we basically had three styles of metal: Death, Thrash and Metal. Of course there were bands with similarities but that’s basically it. Nowadays, I agree “metal” sounds so much different and what some call metal now would be labeled totally different in the 80’s & 90’s. What I love about some metal bands now is the influence of Jazz that we didn’t really have back then. Also, I agree have been saying this for 20+ years. A great blues, or pop, or jazz guitarist probably can’t play metal music, but a metal guitarist can play blues, pop or jazz.

[@Admiral_Bongo]

Nah, prog/technical death had jazz influence early on. Be it brutal stuff like Suffocation or more avant-garde bands like Atheist and Cynic.

[@chasinglatitudes1424]

No way in the 80’s??? Name 5 bands because I sure as shit don’t remember jazz in metal. In the 80’s bands were considered metal and not rock because of ; more distortion, screaming more instead of singing ( some bands still sang like King Diamond, so generalizing) , more double bass and faster paced music. No bands had jazz, prog or technical. That came in more in the 90’s. Now rush was proggy but they were hard rock and not metal. And I am generalizing with metal music. Yes there were band were people still sang like Anthrax or Viovod was somewhat proggy but they were well ahead of their time from the start. Most metal music was nothing like it is today.

[@SatanicRomantic]

​@chasinglatitudes1424 if you read his comment again, you will see that he was saying that metal bands today have a jazz influence that he likes. Not the ones in the 80s.

[@Apfeljunge666]

I think this video might finally 100% prove that metalcore is, in fact, metal.

[@treyxaviermusic]

For better or worse

[@andymcrae5450]

XD

[@rossthebesiegebuilder3563]

So contrary to your clickbait title, you're saying that metal isn't a definable genre of music, not that it doesn't count as music at all.

[@treyxaviermusic]

I'm saying that what makes metal metal isn't a musical thing. The title is the truth - metal literally isn't music, it's something that you apply to music.

[@keizan5132]

Extremely misleading, but I get your point.

[@wesbaumguardner8829]

@@treyxaviermusic I am not real sure what you mean by that. Are you claiming that metal is a culture, attitude, mindset, feel, or some other property or trait you are applying to music?

[@bob_b9349]

@@treyxaviermusici agree with alot of stuff u said but not that. Metal is music because it has defining characteristics that make it metal just like other genres. It can be transposed into other musical genres and other musical genres can mix metal with respective musical genres (not all genres accommodate as well as others). Some defining characteristics that make metal metal are its distorted guitars, its technicality, lyrics, vocal style, drumming, i mean you can put metal drumming on anything and it’ll sound metal. You can add a distorted guitar and its the same deal, and same deal with harsh screaming vocals.

[@SixStringHarmonies]

Pizza and sex. Even when it's bad, it's still pretty good.

[@treyxaviermusic]

this guy gets it

[@taihavard]

I read this comment right at the start of the video, then a few moments later there was a Pizza scene. I got really excited for the rest of the video....

[@treyxaviermusic]

@ hahahaha sorry to disappoint

[@taihavard]

@@treyxaviermusic Na It's my own fault. I mean when has a pizza scene ever lead to something like that, it just doesn't happen :D Side note, genuinely one of the only music knowledge related videos in a very long time that has got me to that "Oh s**t! I think he's on to something!" place.

[@RamsesTheFourth]

I strongly dissagree.

[@m3m3sis]

A finnish metal band called Diablo has had for decades a slogan "even the shittiest metal is still the best"

[@fclefjefff4041]

That is precisely the kind of infantile take you expect to hear from metal bands.

[@quack2thesequel]

​@@fclefjefff4041 shut up hipster

[@RohannvanRensburg]

Reported this as a hate crime for calling metal "tofu". Seriously though, having listened to a lot of metal over decades, I can't really tell you what "metal" is and I don't find it a useful descriptor unless a person already knows the genre. To many, metal is simply music that's too aggressive for them (I've heard Def Leppard be called "too metal"), or music with distorted guitars. People in Japan, for instance, see distorted guitars quite differently, so that's not it either, especially since Apocalyptica is "metal". There are ostensibly "metal" songs that are mostly clean guitar tones but the overall darker aesthetic and more dissonant leanings make them as such. I've come to associate it with a broad descriptor of rhythm, aesthetic and an overall more aggressive flavour to the music. You've articulated it much better here though, well done.

[@treyxaviermusic]

soybeans are not a protected group

[@RohannvanRensburg]

@@treyxaviermusic 😢Well at least now I have a cause upon which to base my identity

[@DreadedMetal]

This is exactly why metal is split into so many sub genres. Because metal is a direction like east or west and the style or subgenre is the roads you take to get there

[@BlazonStone]

I would never describe Hansi Kursch vocals as "operatic", he sounds more like a 80 thrash metal singer with melody Tarja from ex Nightwish is operatic

[@robmandel3413]

I remember growing up when metal was finding its place. I saw Metallica with cliff. Twice. Saw dio with sabbath and then on his first solo tour. Saw maiden on number of beast tour. And world piece tour and world slavery tour, etc. That’s how old I am. one of the defining characteristics of metal was that it absolutely did not get played on radio. That meant songs were longer, there were extended parts without lyrics, the topics were heavy, and lots more. It was the “you can’t do that so then we will” genre. It was the piss off the parents and teachers music. The “my kids going to grow up to be an axe murderer or something” music. It was as much an attitude as anything. It was also a lot of great musicians who were allowed to do whatever they wanted. And what we got was the most amazing music ever. Yeah, metal isn’t looked down upon anymore. Maybe that’s good maybe that’s bad. I don’t know.

[@yungvirticus]

Good lord, how do you shut your brain off at night?

[@treyxaviermusic]

is that a thing people do? if you find a way please let me know

[@hatempire]

Sometimes I wonder if Trey is a fellow ADHDer like myself, since I share A LOT of mannerisms and train of thoughts with him. lol

[@moeclomo]

@@hatempirehe is

[@treyxaviermusic]

@@hatempire wonder no more, I very much am

[@yungvirticus]

​@@treyxaviermusickudos for being open about it. No judgement!

[@charizardmaster13]

Maybe slightly poking the bear here but id also argue that melodically things like the the flat 2 in the minor scales and just generally the harmonic minor and phyrigian scales are very emblematic of metal. Of course these arent exclusive to the genre but if you played a 0 1 3 4 based melody or riff even on a clean setting people tend to recognise it as metal. As well as the unique rhythmic style that metal has. But i also realise this is just a fun thinking exercise and i do agree with your take on it too!

[@DuFFuL]

And that's why I love metal! You can do anything you want!!

[@f0rth3l0v30fchr15t]

Musically, right?

[@DuFFuL]

@ hmmmm

[@mikepollackguitar]

“Metal is pizza. And pizza is good.” Well said.

[@Burnt_Gerbil]

We all know what ‘rock music’ is. It’s called ‘metal’ because it’s harder than rock. Sonically and physically. Go figure. 🤓

[@raihidara]

I'd argue that even Soft Rock is harder physically than some genres of metal like Nü Metal. Downtuning, playing with 1 finger and open chugs don't take much dexterity.

[@Patrick-857]

​@raihidara I disagree. When Korn first came out, it was incredibly heavy, and not just because of the low tuned chugging. It was heavy because of the dissonance, the groove, the lyrics, the vocals. All of it came together to make something deeply unsettling, and simultaneously made you want to break stuff. I'd argue that mainstream rock (butt rock) has become more metal. That's what's happened. As much as we may dislike it, bands like Bad Wolves and Five Finger Death Punch are definitely closer to metal than any more traditional radio friendly rock band. Also technicality does not equal heavy. Some of the heaviest stuff I've heard is really simple and easy to play. I'm not massive fan of technical stuff anyway, many people aren't. Necrophagist is like "Wow that's insane" for the first few minutes and then it gets really boring because it's basically just exists to show off that guy's impressive skills. On the other hand some of the doom bands create a truly oppressive atmosphere that takes you to another world. At the extreme end of that is Sunn O))). Nobody can accuse them of being technical. Yet it's very very heavy. Then there's early Cannibal Corpse, which isn't that technical either. It's just brutal. I don't care how fast a band plays, I don't care what scales they use, I don't care if they play 0 3 5 in drop D for 10 minutes like Tool does. I care if it's good.

[@Admiral_Bongo]

​@@Patrick-857 Suffocation was the first technical death metal band and they're heavy as hell. Much more so than Cannibal Corpse and many other both early and modern death bands. Necrophagist isn't very impressive, to be honest. I mean, Necro are fast, but they're pretty simplistic as far as composition goes.

[@nekoill]

Metal absolutely does have a defining characteristic that is applicable to every single representative of the genre, band or song: distortion. There are, of course, acoustic versions of some metal songs, but they are typically even named as such, like "The Unforgiven (acoustic)" or something. Name me 5 metal songs that don't have distortion in them and I'll eat my hat. Also, pop artists rarely cover metal songs not because of some campfire test (which Bach et al, including most of jazz, fail miserably btw, just on the account of not having a single word sung alongside the music for the most part), but because the audience of like 13 y.o. girls doesn't normally mix well with songs like Hammer Smashed Face, Kill Your Mother Rape Your Dog, or Raining Blood, even though the last one sounds eerily thematically appropriate for the audience. Metal bands cover pop songs, aside from getting potential to become more widely known, because the idea of, I dunno, Taylor Swift being sung (and played) by, say, Disturbed is just hilarious (although the result is frighteningly compelling and enjoyable: look up Ten Second Songs - Bad Blood, thank me later)

[@treyxaviermusic]

Distortion is an aesthetic sound design choice, not a musical characteristic.

[@AllyceMusicOFFICIAL]

2nd comment specifically responding to the point that you don't see alot of metal songs turned into pop is because most people who consume and like pop don't consume other music genres nearly as much as metal fans who listen to typically a whole lot of genres/types of music. At least, that is what I have observed from anyone I've discussed music with.

[@treyxaviermusic]

That also could be a reason, but I think that assumes that the song would even survive the transition. Like, without changing any of the actual music, could “Whore To A Chainsaw” really be a pop song? I’d certainly like to see it, but I have low hopes.

[@jettoscranda]

Defining metal elements? How about guitar distortion, palm muting, heavy drumming, fast swithcing of high-pitched tones atop of a heavy distorted riff, deep bass digging?

[@cotomaznaczyc]

I see your point, but you disproved your own argument at 10:33. That midi was 100% metal. I almost banged my head. Metal has evolved greatly over the years and has become more diverse, and there isn't one specific element that all metal shares, but there is a collection of elements that are unique to metal and can be recognized in a midi or an acoustic guitar. You can plan a thrash riff on an acoustic guitar, and I'd know that's a thrash riff. On the other hand, there is a lot of stuff out there that has metal aesthetic, but some have historically called 'pop dressed in metal'.

[@SantanaSilcott]

4:55 Sorry in advance for being that guy, but there are no unifying features of jazz, or even most genres. By the same standard you created for metal, jazz would also be tofu (love that comparison, by the way). There are exceptions for everything you listed, though all the ingredients named are very common none the less. When asked to define jazz, Miles Davis famously said, "If you have to ask, you'll never know." The playing examples you made are certainly well known tunes for each genre you're discussing, but they're no longer in the genre you're saying they are inherently. You can make Autumn Leaves as metal as you want, and it's still Autumn Leaves, but it's no longer jazz. Likewise, you can make Holy Diver a full-on bluegrass jam, even if it is a famous metal tune. The song remains the song, but you did change the genre. The songs are the tofu, and you flavored them with genre. There's more I disagree with, but I'm not going to write a whole book here 😂

[@JD-ol7wm]

Thanks!

[@treyxaviermusic]

Wow thank YOU!

[@nikhtzatzi]

Same can be said for pop and hiphop tho. I think the answer is that more recent music genres have clear inspirations , so they cnage up existing things that can be characterized as older genres if you remove all additions.

[@swagmundfreud666]

I can agree with pop, but not so much hip-hop. I've made a lot of trap beats in my day, and they have some very clear guidelines for theory: lead melodic riff in a minor key which is more rhythm-centered than melodically-centered, snare on beat 3, optional ghost snares on the off-beats, hihats on every beat +rolls for flavor, kicks follow a dotted eighth note pattern. 808 basslines follow the pattern of the kicks, usually playing a counter to the lead melody. And let's not even get into rapping. There are subgenres of hip-hop with pretty different theory structures - except for one thing that is basically always the same: drums. The drums gotta sound hip-hop and a four-on-the-floor does not sound hip-hop. A rock beat does not sound hip-hop. A blast-beat does not sound hip-hop. Further, usually it's a riff based genre, so the chords and melodies aren't telling any story on their own. I'mma list some subgenres of hip-hop now: so first we have boom-bap, which is hip-hop that focuses on naturalistic sounds and sampling as opposed to synths and midi production, essentially boom-bap is only really different from trap music in its sound design (and there's no hihat rolls in classic boombap) but theory wise they are shockingly similar. Nu Metal is hip-hop with metal sound design. Pop rap is pop music with hip-hop theory, hence why it is pop rap and not rap pop. Noise rap is hip-hop with intentionally abrasive and experimental sound design, and this genre often leers outside of traditional hip-hop theory, but rarely in its entirety. JPEGMAFIA may do really weird stuff with his beat structures and use some very odd, off-kilter rhythms, and he may screw with his samples really hard, but he's still using *that* drum beat, he's still using the same basic melodic ideas. Death Grips is weird, since I actually don't think they are hip-hop. They are a punk rock band that uses hip-hop aesthetics. Clipping uses the basics of hip-hop theory but turns it on its head through, of all things, progressive rock theory. Pop is a shapeshifter. It takes the form of whatever it needs to for its ultimate goal, which is to be popular. Pop from even twenty years ago sounds very different from how pop sounds today.

[@silversurfer2156]

This is great! So many people are musically ignorant to what you're trying to convey.

[@kevinwhite6176]

Your blues riff demonstrates how you turn the blues into Opeth.

[@mocha7024]

The production of this video is next level! Great Job dude!!!

[@steeeeeve536]

I get what you're saying here and i totally agree. The fact that metal can be basically whatever you want, that it can be so diverse, is one of the things that makes it so amazing.

[@rugerdie4054]

2:20 So you're describing three subgenres of quote, unquote, metal music...

[@rugerdie4054]

Oh so subgenres are like pizza toppings 😅

[@ChernobylAudio666]

Metal is pizza. I can get behind that. 🤘

[@VoidstriderLucatiel]

8:20 so, what. Punk isn't music because Horrorpunk, Cowpunk, Crust Punk, Pop-Punk, Celtic Punk, Skate Punk, Glam Punk, Atompunk, Goth Punk, Afro-Punk... Rock isn't music because Acid Rock, Blues Rock, Boogie Rock, Celtic Rock, Folk Rock, Math Rock, Pop Rock, Wizard Rock... This is an exhausting and shallow way to look at music, if I'm quite honest? It completely disregards the inspirational element that one genre of music can have on another. Metal has unifying characteristics. Distorted guitars, extended solos, and volume. To an extent that Rock and its many subgenres don't fully follow. You went to Tofu as if Metal taking in other flavors in its recipe completely nullifies the flavor of music that Metal actually is. But Chicken is often regarded as a flavorless meat that you have to add other flavors to in order to have a flavor.

[@VoidstriderLucatiel]

10:42 The ABILITY for Metal to create a song from a single note is unique to Metal among musical genres. That doesn't make it not music. Music isn't just melodies. Metal is a PERCUSSIVE genre of music that focuses on impact over melodic strings, but which is capable still of carrying beautiful melodies with the correct care. But that ability to create music from single-note progressions is a unique identifier for what makes Metal as a genre unique from other genres. Because Metal is a PERCUSSIVE genre.

[@VoidstriderLucatiel]

12:34 No, I disagree. I think that all sounds very bluesy. I wouldn't describe that as not blues. But it's a discordant blues. Blues is a reflection of the soul, and if your soul is in discordance, that's the sound that resonates with you. You didn't break into a fast-paced solo, you kept to most of the unifying, core concepts that make Blues blues, you just added note progressions that you don't find in blues and said it suddenly isn't blues. Blues is a feeling.

[@thomasmann4536]

only tangentially related to your main point, but i would point out that for many genres, the choice of the instrument is indeed vital to the end "product" as it gives the musical piece a character that could be totally different with a different instrument. I.e. if we were to play Adagio for Strings with a Brass band, we would lose a lot of the softness and melancholy that are inherent to strings but entirely absent in brass. Similarly, a growl voice is usually not nearly as effective at communicating joy or sadness, as a clean voice would be, but much more effective at communicating anger. This is why - for metal - most (good) ballads don't feature harsh vocals, blast beats or heavy riffing, and most songs about rage or anger feature electric guitars instead of acoustic ones.

[@angar_9714]

A musics genre characteristic doesn't need to be determined by rythms are reoccuring patterns and whatnot, but sometimes also about the constellation of the instrumental aspect Every metal song has heavy drums and loud electronic guitars in the foreground of the instrumental part And this also is a characteristic that tells everybody a song is metal

[@IndyRockStar]

I've always thought of Metal as the modern spin of Classical music. You make some convincing points. I tend to agree with you.

[@Venom_Snek]

"Metal is Not Music" * 35 seconds into the video * "Metal is not a musical style..." Uh huh, yeah that's about as far as I'm getting. Man, KZbin can be annoying.

[@treyxaviermusic]

Those are the same thing. I’m being as absolute literal as I can be

[@spicymeatballs2thespicening]

​@@treyxaviermusic "x is not music" and "x is not a musical style" are two different sentences for a reason. the first implies everything described as "metal" is not music at all, while the second is saying it's just not a uniquely defined category of music. Conveniently, the first one is the best one to slap on a video title to generate more clicks.

[@ulfdanielsen6009]

That piano riff is metal as Fååårk!

[@ZhaojuEphastine]

0:14 => Up to that point. Title is misleading. Obviously a clickbait. Metal isn't a musical style, it's... a layer, an appendix. Because any other music genre you can find or like, there's a Metal version of that. Any.

[@thelastdaybreathinginetern1385]

Archspire is my favorite band, I listen to them daily. I've been a Metalhead for 16 years. I've been listening to Archspire since Relentless Mutation first showcased.

[@AllyceMusicOFFICIAL]

Cool video, even though I don't agree with the point of saying metal isn't music. Cool concept and discussion, but the bases of it all is a stretch or essentially what I do alot, and that's "overthinking". Music can be any combination of melody, groove, rhythm, beat, harmony, and/or vocals using instruments of any kind to put together a final vision. That's how I'd define music, personally. Not all music sounds good to everyone, but I would never say it's not music. Especially when taking into account that metal has more subgenres then any other form of music I can think of. All of those sub genres are only able to exist under the umbrella of a core genre. I'll sub either way for the sake of your quality and originality this video/your content shows. ❤🖤❤

[@spynasaurus5194]

That metal you made with one note is just like dubstep. A lot of dubstep aounds amazing just using one note because of how much the sound design and modulating timbre does for the music.

[@marvinaaron8152]

Besides the sonic aspects, which I believe you are correct about, I thought that one specific characteristic of Metal, as distinct from other music genres, is that it is down-tuned. Also, I thought some chords (power chords) and scales (the spooky sounding scales) are specific to metal, but I am not saying that I cannot be wrong on all this.

[@Stretchwreckedem469]

Even if 12:05 wasn’t blues, it was still much more interesting than most Blues that many of us have heard. It’s why everyone should aspire to think outside the box and experiment with different sounds. Keeping within the confines of a genre of music will spell certain death for that music, which is why we have to continue to push to change & evolve the music we love so people can continue to do the same long after we’re gone.

[@Owlr4ider]

First of all, horrible click bait title! 'is not music' and 'is not a distinctive/cohesive musical style' are 2 very different things. Secondly metal is both distinctive and cohesive. To begin with, there's the classic arrangement of guitar, base guitar, drums and often(but not always) vocals. This arrangement can of course be expanded upon, by adding multiple guitars, multiple vocals or other instruments outright, most commonly the keyboard but also many others. Then there's the rhythm of metal which is very distinct and is the main element separating metal from rock. Then there is the element of intensity, for a lack of a better descriptor, of metal. As in taking every element to its extreme, which is the other main differentiator between meta and rock. Then there's the whole concept of pushing boundaries, which isn't limited to metal of course, but is absolutely key to it. The progression from heavy to trash to death metal for example or in the other direction the progression from doom to shoegaze to drone metal, are perfect examples of this. Or a different example, the sub-genres of symphonic metal or neo-classical metal which straight up turn classical music into metal. Yes, yes, a gross oversimplification, I know... That is to say that metal is a lot more than just 'sound design' or 'production'. Lastly I get why you're trying to find something that applies to all of metal, but that's the wrong way to look at it. Mostly due to the point mentioned above on metal's boundary pushing element, as when you constantly push boundaries eventually you outright break them. At that point you leave the group you were previously in, but than you're still kind of inside it but you've already strayed so far away from the typical characteristics of said group that some or many of them no longer apply to you.

[@spicymeatballs2thespicening]

Well put, also if you take a brutal death metal or black metal song and translate it all to an 8 bit track like you can hear on youtube, you can pretty easily tell that it's a metal song from the frequent use of blast beats, tremolo picking, power chords, pinch harmonics, chugging or solo sections, give or take some, etc

[@6balanced9]

I fucking hate click bait

[@cranklabexplosion-labcentr8245]

“And then we got Sleeps Dopesmoker” AWWWW YEAH BOI WE DOIN THIS

[@treyxaviermusic]

bowwwwwwwwwwwww

[@somekindofdude1130]

What are the characteristics of metal: Riff Driven Music Guitar harmony (i mean linear movements from one degree to the next or the previous) Rythm based Music Specific Rythm Patterns on instruments and vocals Now when you played the sinatra song i did not hear jazz i heard metal, then synthwave etc etc I get what you are saying but not all music genres are melody based some are groove based and metal is one of them.

[@nicolasmartin.exchanger]

You make a good point and I can agree for the most part. But AKSHUALLY, I'd say that, even if it starts with just an aesthetic (arguably, early Sabbath is just blues with horror themes), at some point, some specific arrangement and composition techniques appear. Because that rythmic pattern you play on the piano didn't really make sense in a classical ensemble, but it does whith a double kick and palm mute, and sooner or later, musicians figure that out. If you explore that further, in combination with what playing on a fretboard, for example, you obtain riffs that just wouldn't have sprouted out in any other genre. To illustrate: notice how drop tuning suddenly change the way you approach the riffs. Maybe that's from my own journey in prog metal, which gladly absorbs classical and jazz influences, but I'd say reducing music to just the chord progression and harmony codes is not the full picture. Some things may fall under "production" but some other elements are arrangement. So, because some bands or sub-genres get away with just slapping the aesthetic over blues or what have you, doesn't mean all of metal does just that.

[@TheTektronik]

I think I'm slowly getting it with the analogy you used. Thanks.

[@JimWilbourne]

This is similar to a video I made about the difference between Fantasy and SciFi stories. Most people don't like when I break down the parts and show fantasy for what it is. But it doesn't change the fact that it's still awesome and powerful because of it

[@oddoutdoors]

Metal is considered cannon (classical) music.

[@Patrick-857]

Some genres maybe. Anything that stays in the tradition of Sabbath doesn't lean classical at all, it's blues based. Plus you have metal that's more influenced by jazz than classical too. And where does Pantera fit into that? Certainly not classical. The blues is in there but you can't hear it much.

[@Hastenforthedawm]

​@@Patrick-857part of the idiomaric nature of metal is that even the heavily classical and jazz influenced metal can still be broken eown back to it's blues core. (And for that jazz too was the OG variation on jazz before rock came along)

[@rotemharari1565]

I believe the way I describe metal is by how i headbang to it. In metal, i headbang far forward and backwards. This means that I don't consider ramstein and ratm and some other bands that are considered metal halve the time metal because i dont headband the same way to them. it also sometimes means that some other genres are metal some times. its not fully acurate but its how i consider it.

[@penttikoivuniemi2146]

All genres are groupings based mostly on aesthetics and scenes instead of musical information. The jazz standard you played is originally a French pop song, there is nothing about its melody and chords that makes it specific to jazz. We just know it as a jazz standard, so we hear jazz when we hear the song. Conversely, there is little Autumn Leaves shares with Miles Davis' Bitches Brew album, and that doesn't have much in common with say, Adam Neely's stuff, but all are still considered jazz.

[@martiboucat]

Man… the amount of work for that video is phenomenal. I like when you do these kind of Neeley videos. Congrats and keep them coming!

[@PIZZAdayisback]

My favorite flavors of tofu/metal are pizza flavored/thrash, beef flavored/death, fish flavored/prog and toothpaste flavored/nu

[@Eliphas_Elric]

Dopesmoker is the shit. Thanks for reminding me that it exists.

[@miketregle]

I wasn’t sure where you were going with this, but I like where you went. I grew up in New Orleans. My life’s goal is to make second-line metal work.

[@applegarden2448]

melody is any series of notes played in sequence btw, it does not have to be diatonic.

[@alienluvchild6478]

Love the video. I had never thought about metal that deeply before, busier enjoying the massive variety that’s available.

[@zkateyguy]

What this guy is basically saying is that Djent is a genre and Metal isn't. What? Yes. If one can play syncopated staccato rhythms in an odd time signature or polyrhythm it will sound "djenty", whether you play that with a guitar or with a trumpet. Just like his example of Blues: if you play the chords on whatever instrument it's Blues, until you deviate from that. Same goes for djent. Anything can djent, and it's not limited so a sound (even though it's mostly used in a Metal "sound design")

[@PendelSteven]

Well, I've got a genre called "Rock & Metal". Sorted. Because Metal is Rock. Having said that I've also got a genre "Progressive Rock & Metal" for bands like Yes, Tool, Dream Theater and Nightwish.

[@Owlr4ider]

'Metal is rock' is the biggest misconception around metal. Yes, metal did indeed evolve from rock music, however it is a very different beast. For example you can clearly say that the Red Hot Chili Peppers are playing rock music rather than metal, or that Slayer is playing metal rather than rock. Since you started talking about the 'progressive' sub-genre, lets continue with that, firstly why is Nightwish in there...? Nightwish is Symphonic Metal, plain and simple. As for the other 3 Yes is a clear example of progressive rock, Dream Theater of progressive metal and Tool somewhere in between. Yes, as well as other progressive rock bands like Rush, Jethro Tull, etc, have a very different style than progressive metal bands like Dream Theater, Symphony X, Opeth, etc, that I don't understand how you can confuse the 2. Sure, Tool is an outlier here, being part metal part rock, but Tool is the exception not the rule.

[@PopoCatepetl-vh3kx]

Metal doesnt care whether it exists or not. The people who carry it in their hearts DO!

[@loicestrade4054]

I love that last line "metal is pizza...and pizza is good". Such a good punchline!

[@salty_snowboarder]

Metal is easy listening for the hard of hearing. Thanks, Mike Muir!

[@owensrebellion]

I've never looked at it like this.

[@mattkovarik646]

Metal is music in the way that it is a valid expression of musicality and musicianship as a medium of art through song. As long as a song has some form of notes or rythem or phonic quality, it can be music. The point being argued by most of these commenters myself included is possibly a kind of trauma response from past invalidation in the form of traditional people saying metal is just noise with mo form or value as artistic expression. I hear it all the time with old people saying rap or metal does not qualify as valid musical song or art. This concept I am pointing out has nothing to do with the qualitative identity catagorization of a song or piece of musical art. This is the same concept that people who have no definable or acknowledged gender identity are still people and a completely valid as a human being. I understand your intentions but your lack of empathy to try and undestand why people may feel hurt is not an argument of catagorization, but one of devaluation by you using previously harmful and invalidating rhetoric in the title and video. An example of someone else making this argument more intentionally would be the rediculous people who said the jimmy kimmel live performance of Knocked Loose and Poppy was not music, just noise and not a worthy expression of noise to be valued to hold the title of a song or a piece of music along with the demand for Jimmy to make a formal apology for giving that platform to an invalid or illegitemate musical act. Please acknowledge that you are not trying to make the same argument as these people because at the moment it really looks like you are although I can tell you are not trying but others might not be able to tell. This community has been through a lot, Please remember that! Otherwise I completely agree with you and keep up the great work!

[@treyxaviermusic]

I should think that by sheer virtue of the fact that I clearly also play metal, love metal, listen to metal, that I’m clearly not trying to make even remotely close to the same argument as them, and also that my point by the end is that metal rules and it’s awesome for a reason, which is not the reason that everyone thinks.

[@mattkovarik646]

@treyxaviermusic I can kind of understand how that would make sense from your perspective, however from the outside it doesn't look that way as the title literally says the exact thing that people have told us for years to devalue something we're passionate about and the Assumption you mentioned that not everyone knows about versus you saying metal is not music rather than metal is not a music genre, a music type, a music category would have been greatly appreciated although I understand how that is less appetizing to the viewer for the purposes of clickbait and wouldn't elicit the upset reaction that got most of the people to click on this video where are the end justifies the means. It just seems like you went out of your way to get people to have the same reaction I did. I thought it would mean a lot to people for you to acknowledge that, and for that I thank you! Have a lovely rest of your night, my friend!

[@BigFroppa]

1 million sub genres of metal

[@deadringer2349]

Music: (noun) vocal or instrumental sounds (or both) combined in such a way as to produce beauty of form, harmony, and expression of emotion.

[@Henry14arsenal2007]

With all due respect, while this applies to a lot of cases, there some where this approach breaks down, ie a "metal" cover some shit like Somebody That I Used To Know by Gotye or playing awful Arctic Monkeys riffs with heavier distortion doesnt make them metal because the source material is so unimaginably removed from the essence of such music that the fakeness of the act becomes immediately obvious. There are still many instances where this applies though, like just imagine if Dont Speak by No Doubt had heavier instrumentals, it would be an instant nu/alternative metal song and I always imagined it was actually heavier in my mind.

[@johnmcintyre2123]

Bait: deployed 🎣 I think this is a preaching to the choir kind of situation where you gotta have a certain metal-leaning background to contextualize and receive this gem through the hyperbolic spicy claims made here lol. It’s an antagonistic but effective way to hammer composition priority into the minds of the aesthetic priority metalhead crowd. Still though, I might say that your one note caveman riff did have a characteristically metal composition in the rhythm/phrasing department even on piano lol. I feel like Unholy Confessions still has a pretty metal identity when played on piano. Master Of Puppets as well.

[@treyxaviermusic]

well it's no fun if you're gonna take the bait and then say some shit that makes sense

[@Weaselg83]

First view of your content and a really well-made and contextually rich video, also a really good analogy used. Top notch content

[@jessejames5229]

Problem is this idea of artists not sounding like other artists despite being from the same genre isn't unique to metal and infact is a problem in jazz. For example, the metal artist you gave as an example sounding different sound a Hell a lot more in common than do say Benny Goodman, Duke Ellington, Charles Mingus, Quinet of The Hot Club of France, Return to Forever, or Mahavishnu Orchestra. Also, people associating instrumental aesthetic with genre isn't unique to to Metal; for example there was a number of people who had a hard time seeing Django and The Quinet of the Hot Club of France as being jazz due to having no stereotypical jazz instrumentation like trumpets or saxophones. Also, take country for example even if one were to give a concert where they played country classics Iike Your Cheating Heart, I Walk The Line, Coat of Many Colors on a harpscord most people are going to think your playing classical not country, or at least classical music versions of country songs even if you don't do anything else classics to them like adding extended melodies, harmonies, or dynamic shifts.

[@TheBlackenedFlagOfXtermination]

thats why we love it

[@SuperStrik9]

On a side note those 70k Tons of Metal cruises look like a (no pun intended) ton of fun.🤘🏻

[@ZethKeeper]

I agree. That, I think, is the reason I'm indifferent to some sub-genres. And you're absolutely right on the endless possibilities part. I just realized a few days ago that there's no instances of combining metal with my other favorite genre and it got me thinking. But I won't tell you what it is, I genuinely want to be first at this, lol!

[@timurhant469]

The aliens in that U.F.O were screaming "Stay Teeeeeeech" .

[@superhydroyeast]

Interesting take. Not sure I agree but I always appreciate your input. Love you Trey x

[@loicestrade4054]

"Are you writing a great timeless song that your grandkids will sing around the campfire?" "Or are you just making tofu pizza?" ...literally spits it out after🤣🤣🤣

[@radiozelaza]

let me tell you what metal is METAL IS WAR

[@ericolson326]

Tofu is the song, metal is the flavoring. 🔁

[@spynasaurus5194]

ColBreakz makes dubstep that sounds distinctly Mediterranean. Teninite makes dubstep with jazz compositions, because he went to jazz school. Sullivan King and Skrillex made dubstep with metal compositions, because they were in a metal band before dubstep, especially Sullivan King.

[@TenchixRyoko]

You will forgive me if I disown you now child. May Dio have mercy on your corrupt soul.

[@nikolastoyanov9696]

Great video as a philosophy undergrad it was very nicely put out

[@masonthemetalhead]

Thus is a great analogy and I would agree that metal is more sound design than music in theory. But I do think it's still music, because we'll music is music.

[@KostasKritsalos]

respect from Greece and Ioannina City.

[@ericmyrs]

I'm ready to hear how completely wrong you are. Later: All your examples for why metal isn't a musical genre hold for jazz and classical as well. I think we can bury this take.

[@vietnamd0820]

I wasn’t expecting to hear 1349’s I Am Abomination …only because they don’t get talked about that much …I love that song 👍

[@basedboi1023]

Wasn't sure what to expect when I saw the thumbnail, but this dude is absolutely on point here. The same arguments can kind of be made against punk rock as well.

[@Avuminaathulum]

As long as the instrumental gets more ingnorant, then it's metal

[@brunocoliveira89]

The blues was so awesome 😂

[@pakoti96]

"You can't do this in the blues or it becomes not bluesy anymore." *Proceeds to play perfectly bluesy blues*

[@treyxaviermusic]

There’s zero chance a blues would use those kinds of chords and tonalities, no blues in history has had a minmaj7 chord in it as far as I know

[@pakoti96]

@@treyxaviermusic Well then I guess lack of minmaj7 chords isn't a vital part of the definition of blues :)

[@lorislaruedrummer6739]

As a drummer, I need to see metal as a genre

[@carlosdiego2332]

Hi, i just want to mention armonic minor, diminished chords, bach...and corporal expretion(rythm)🤔 love your take on this.

[@ladislausferreus]

I once heard the definition that Metal is whatever metalheads like. A very post-modern way to define a genre, but it's the most accurate.

[@sergimila1206]

If you can headbang and moshpit to it then it is Metal.

[@brianbergmusic5288]

Riff Salads == Tofu Pizza? I have seen obscure examples of metal songs given a genre-switch. Cowboys from Hell becomes folk/country -- as one example (Hillbilly Orchestra cover). I don't go out of my way to listen to country/blue-grass, but I actually found their take to be both unique and enjoyable. Just one odd ball example of it working the other way around.

[@aatreybhatt1999]

10:26 Here's the same thing without the metal production: *Tigran Hamasyan piano part*

[@SlyHikari03]

Haha