metering for the shadows

[@katyawalch5977]

wow this is the most tense music I've heard for a film KZbin video! like what's gonna happen?? which one is gonna be better??

[@ThePhotoDept]

SUSPENSE

[@bambameron]

Big Uncut Gems energy. Lol

[@kennyward5252]

I just recently stumbled upon your videos……. GOLD MINE. No idea how you don’t have over 100K subs yet keep up the phenomenal work.

[@ThePhotoDept]

Hahaha thanks my friend

[@chubrubb2098]

I think this proves that exposing for the shadows is not the default in the end. It’s good to see these comparisons and realized it’s all in preference and finding a middle ground somewhere in there.

[@jamesmonahan9408]

Using a reflective meter. Spot meter for the shadow you want to KEEP detail and underexpose by 1 or 2 stops.

[@dandyroll7610]

Exact!

[@atomikpi]

actually super cool to see them side-by-side - way more useful than the normal "I expose xyz way because reasons." both looked good, just different. exposing for the shadows probably more reliable (no loss of detail) but sometimes looked washed out / colors subjectively worse.

[@ThePhotoDept]

I agree.

[@eladtall]

perfect demonstration , thank you

[@nerebarkaobs]

FINALLY , somebody did a video after which I understand metering for the shadows . Thanks a lot !

[@ThePhotoDept]

Heck yeah!!!

[@GONZOFAM7]

The other half of the saying is develope for the highlights. Expose for the shadows (you want detail in) and develope for the highlights to get the complete shot you intended. Cool music.

[@sirwaynekitt]

Wow. This video is great. Such a simplistic approach to actually providing a lot of valuable information. Excited to see where the rest of this metering series goes.

[@ThePhotoDept]

I appreciate hat man. Thank you

[@anta40]

Nice video. I think this illustrates that "metering for shadow" doesn't always produce the expected image. You still have to know which areas which details you want to preserve, and which areas are not. Then you decide whether to expose for highlight or shadow.

[@ThePhotoDept]

Exactly

[@ReimannPembroke]

Great video dude! I think this series is going to be helpful for a lot of photographers who are just starting to get into film

[@ThePhotoDept]

Appreciate that

[@Oracorio0205]

Some SERIOUS 24 vibes and I love it. “Trust no one” 😂👏🏻🙌🏻

[@ThePhotoDept]

Hahahah glad you enjoyed it

[@flutterbydragonfly]

Great video but I still have a question. Do you stand and meter from where your camera is or do you walk up to the subject and meter from there?

[@ThePhotoDept]

Asking as you’re standing in the same light as your subject, you can meter from where you are. If your subject is in different light, you need to meter the light your subject is in.

[@flutterbydragonfly]

@@ThePhotoDept thank you 👍🏻😊

[@magnusa.5599]

i usually like your content a lot. but a video about metering without once using the term „middle grey“... not so sure. in my humble opinion, and i‘m not at all an expert, the concept of middle tone, be it grey, green, blue or bugger yellow, is the key to getting your exposure right. but the side by side comparisons were totally making your point clear! cheers

[@ThePhotoDept]

I made it a point to simplify this as much as possible. Middle grey is confusing and without a reference for it, it’s not super helpful.

[@24Exposures]

Really missed knowing what you drank that day! Super helpful video! Thanks!

[@ThePhotoDept]

Should have mentioned it! Damn.

[@PeterGallagher1]

Thanks for the visual explanation.

[@tresnic09]

Was not expecting the intense music but I like it

[@ThePhotoDept]

Me either tbh

[@stephencaserta2969]

I much preferred the shots metered for the sun. the contrast is much better imo and even though the highlights didnt blow out, they looked blown. I appreciate the video, I realized on a bright sunny day I would personally probably prefer keeping more details in the highlights.

[@TimothyGray]

What film did you use in the first set of comparison photos? I saw where you busted out Portra for the second set of comparisons. Thanks!

[@ThePhotoDept]

Everything was Portra I believe.

[@polaroidjay]

This video was suuuuper helpful! Thank you for explaining this stuff! 🙏🏾

[@zguy95135]

Personally I like some more contrast unless I’m specifically going for the bright sunny look but this is good information for newer photographers. Most of the photos including the ones marked accurate color have some mad cyan/magenta color shifts though... I always run into that when I develop c41 at home, even if I’m super accurate with times and temps, it’s frustrating.

[@ThePhotoDept]

By accurate I mean, looked like real life when I was standing there using my eyes.

[@robertordonez9242]

Happens to me all the time, makes me just wanna send my rolls to the lab

[@ellyrion8173]

Really useful video! I've found metering on my Olympus OM1 difficult sometines - it uses a pretty basic centre-weighted lightmeter and so doing a spot metering is hard to do without getting super close. DO you reckon phone apps should be fine for metering for the shadows? Cant afford a Sekonic right yet haha

[@ThePhotoDept]

I have found in my testing that you can totally successfully meter for the shadows with a light meter app no problem

[@ellyrion8173]

@@ThePhotoDept Oh awesome! Thank you :)

[@ellyrion8173]

@@ThePhotoDept Additionally - just on the topic of exposure - I've heard that when you're taking photos outdoors pointing your camera at green grass that is being lit like the rest of the scene is a good way to get the equivalent of an 18% grey. Just wondering if you know if that method holds any water? Thanks!

[@ThePhotoDept]

I’ve literally never heard that but now I wanna see if that’s real.

[@ellyrion8173]

@@ThePhotoDept I cant point you towards any definitive sources - its more the kind of advice you see spread across forums but it seems it was a popular method for film. I've tried it once or twice but when I've done it I've only ever taken one photo of my subject and called it a day - so I have no means of comparison

[@chriscorey5164]

That Pentax is such a nice camera. Thank you for this explanation with such good sample photographs showing the difference between metering for sun and for shadows. It makes the concept very clear.

[@МиленДешев]

Great video! One of the most useful explanations about metering film. I'm a beginner in film photography so it helps me a lot. May I ask you a questoin? Where the lightmeter bulb is pointing at, when you meter for the shadows?

[@Fortnite87463]

I really enjoyed this video. Cant wait to see the next one

[@SlowGrafitti]

I’m totally here for the photo dept’s foray into post credit sequences.

[@ThePhotoDept]

😈

[@jz8638]

Really digging the whole vibe of this video!

[@ThePhotoDept]

Thanks I really went off the rails

[@tychomagneticanomaly]

I'm shooting three different rolls Bergger pancro 400 right now, in an F2, a [mju:] and 120 in the monorail. So thanks for the advice! (I don't have a spot meter and use a Gossen Profisix for the large format). Well done!

[@ThePhotoDept]

Appreciate it! Those are all great cameras.

[@Alex-RealApplebees]

I have no other words to say except wow! Your videos are so great!

[@JohnDoe-m3q]

Hi. Are the images shared on this video straight out of camera with no editing? Great video.

[@neigborhoodbassdealer]

Did you increase your shutter speed to compensate for the middle grey when metering or did you push the film when developing

[@ThePhotoDept]

normal developing babyyyyyy

[@KelseySmithPhotography]

Love the music choice!!

[@ThePhotoDept]

Thanks I dig it

[@Limud613]

This was actually very helpful, thank you! Though I wonder how those images would have looked in black and white.

[@ThePhotoDept]

Oooh gonna have to make a video about it

[@chriscorey5164]

Me, too. Was going to mention that it would be really nice to see a B&W comparison like what was done in this video.

[@paintingthelily]

Learned something, and also felt like I was in the Tron Legacy movie.

[@ThePhotoDept]

Hell yeah

[@NSEW_Mag]

the music on this made it... so damn good!

[@youpeach52]

Just getting into film and this is a massive help!! Looking forward to more of these 👌🏻

[@ThePhotoDept]

Glad I can help!!!

[@Vintage35MM]

Really like the music. Please use different color for text yellow on white was hard to see on a phone screen. Please in future video explain metering differences between incidence vs reflective measurements

[@ThePhotoDept]

K

[@computationalerror69]

Overexposure 🤘 Also if my memory serves me right it isn't advicable to handle film in direct sunlight?

[@ThePhotoDept]

I’m a professional.

[@computationalerror69]

@@ThePhotoDept Subscribed

[@davebeatty3666]

Came for the metering advice, stayed for the drop at 4:00 🙌

[@ThePhotoDept]

👀

[@chris_jorge]

Super helpful. Thank you!!

[@ebreevephoto]

Please take this video with a grain of salt. Please know the saying is "Meter for the shadows, and develop for the highlights." This is video only explains a 1/10 of the overall metering needs. I saw someone below state and taking the next step that is once you meter for the shadow you need to decide how much you are going to under expose that meter reading to leave details in the shadows leaving other parts of the scene less overexposed... Because metering for the shadows only puts the shadows in middle gray and therefore really pushes the midtones probably 2 stops overexposed. But in order to really realize the benefits of meter for the shadows and develop for the highlights you also need to know how to rate your film based on appropriate testing and how the film is developed. Please be careful in inaccurately describing a technique without the proper background. And yes I work in a lab and educational environment so I have a tad of experience here....

[@RichardStroffolino]

John Carpenter's The Photo Dept. is really good

[@ThePhotoDept]

Hahaha thanks my dude

[@edsphotos78]

Great info on metering....then my KZbin melted.

[@Weezot97]

And load film in direct sunlight...

[@ThePhotoDept]

Exactly

[@xdm9guy]

In virtually every case I prefer the images that are metered for the highlights.

[@jackienguyen9290]

You’re out here straight murderin with film

[@TurquoiseIcy]

If you have a spot meter or an incident meter why would you meter for the shadows instead of metering for the midtones? Wouldn't you get a more accurate exposure if you exposed for parts of the image that are middle gray?

[@ThePhotoDept]

Check this out: metering is a creative choice. 🫨🫡🤠🤌🏼😎

[@BillPutnamPhoto]

Great video. Looks like the Adams' Zone System. You're setting exposure at Zone III and letting the highlights fall where they want. That's my interpretation anyway. Great stuff as always.

[@RickLincoln]

The exposures are too bright. That's because he measured the shadows with an incident meter. So, he measured something that lives somewhere in Zone 3 and the meter brought it up to Zone 5 which creates an overexposure and loss of precious saturation. The solution when metering for the shadows is the proper use of the spot meter which is available in his Sekonic meter

[@ThePhotoDept]

huh

[@briansavage932]

I actually prefer the ones you took while metering for the highlights. They looked more natural.

[@ThePhotoDept]

Interesting.

[@StillSawyerPhotography]

This felt like if David Lynch made a film photography KZbin video lol. Love it!

[@ThePhotoDept]

This is such a good compliment WOW THANK YOU

[@lukehendrickson3669]

Here for the various colors of foam on ur mics

[@ThePhotoDept]

They are no longer.

[@MoghulVeyron]

Do you ever meter one stop over exposed?

[@ThePhotoDept]

Depends on the film, I haven’t tried with this film just yet.

[@Thorpal]

Once again that was pleasant to watch but I'm still puzzled by what I have seen. Maybe it would have helped to have more precisions regarding the way it was metered - it seems you used incident metering, but was it true for all the shots ? And did you develop (with accurate time, temperature and fresh chemistry?) and scan (with what?) this by yourself ? Because, and don't take it wrong, in most of your shoots the colors are off regardless how and for what they were metered. There's, generally, a magenta or green cast all other the place - obvious in shadows yes, but not limited to them. Also, imho, exposing for the shadows for the sake of shadow details only is rather a pointless recommendation if there isn't anything important or interesting in the darker parts of your frame. But overexposing on purpose a C41 roll because you like that kind of look is a much preferable and legit advice to give to someone.

[@ThePhotoDept]

The video is more of a response to the hype of shooting and metering for overexposure or the shadows, how to achieve it, and what you can expect for results. It’s meant to be simplistic in demonstrating that. Any color accuracy issues were inherent in the wanton overexposure for the sake of overexposure which I call out in the images, showing that depending on how you meter color is affected. These were processed in fresh chemistry myself and scanned myself.

[@Thorpal]

@@ThePhotoDept Good to know !

[@brayanb91746]

around 3:30 is that pasadena?

[@ThePhotoDept]

👀

[@brayanb91746]

@@ThePhotoDept Cool park 😁

[@MrPingaw0790]

Nice! Very helpful video

[@ThePhotoDept]

Thank you! Glad you think so

[@chrissstttiiine]

Great song choice

[@ThePhotoDept]

Thank you I dig the vibez

[@BadFlashes]

100000000% agree! 🥳

[@ThePhotoDept]

Luv u

[@BadFlashes]

@@ThePhotoDept 😘😘😘

[@KelsomaticPDX]

Me at the end expecting to see big foot or some shit. I nearly fell to the floor.

[@ThePhotoDept]

Hahahaha

[@mikethomas1073]

Correct: TRUST NO ONE!!

[@GS-vb3zn]

7:33 - A content creation cautionary tale. Never attempt to KZbin after a couple 40s of Olde English 800.

[@ThePhotoDept]

It was actually four gummies

[@BillyHopscotch]

Bro. BRO. I'mma need you to chillax the straight fire. Idk what that means but it sounds like something the kids say. Anyway, great video that really explains this well.

[@ThePhotoDept]

Hahahha thanks dude!!!

[@darrenvargas2395]

I LUV U

[@jackienguyen9290]

Is this sponsored by MasterClass?

[@thedondeluxe6941]

Yaaa it's Portra time.

[@ThePhotoDept]

PORTRA TIME

[@superhussein]

is this bad advice for newbies?

[@ThePhotoDept]

why would it be?

[@nostalgix8430]

You know what is missing in this video? The actual "how" to meter for the shadows. You hold your meter in the camera here and there, but with incident metering it might have been helpful to show people how you actually sit down in the shadow of the scene and meter. Otherwise the comparison was very nice to show the difference. And to show those color shifts that happen, too.

[@ThePhotoDept]

Hey man I appreciate your input, but I pretty much tell you in the beginning of the video that it’s going to be a stripped down show don’t tell/side by side to see the difference. There’s no mystery with what I’m doing, you put your meter in the shadow area and take a reading. Same with sun. I intentionally didn’t go further in depth because there are six million other videos that do that.

[@nostalgix8430]

@@ThePhotoDept Sorry maybe I didn't understand your intention correctly. I was a bit irritated that the video came to an end without seeing that.

[@ThePhotoDept]

I get it, but I pretty much set it up in the beginning to be a very simplistic example of what it looks like.

[@patriciamata3012]

It looks like you’re exposing for your subject rather than the shadows. I’ve been taught when shooting environmental portraits meter & shoot for subject but make sure your background highlights and shadows are no more than one stop from your subject exposure. I tend to meter the subject’s highlight and shadow as well as the background. If you expose for background highlights just make sure your subject is still within the one stop range otherwise the subject is seriously underexposed. When it comes to shooting locales sometimes it’s better to underexpose to give a richer overall picture. Some films like kodak can handle the underexposure better than others.

[@ThePhotoDept]

Huh? I metered one frame in full sunlight and one frame in shadow and took both images to show the difference between them metered both ways. I think you’re just getting the terms confused.

[@patriciamata3012]

I usually photograph people so I use an actual meter, to check directional exposure to their face and shadow to see if I need to add fill, then also check with a spot meter for their background shadow and highlight. 1 stop under is black w/detail, 1 1/2 is the darkest, 2 is normally unacceptable for detail in film is just mud and in digital crushes the blacks. Same with the highlights. 2 over in highlights is blinding white in film, and digital creates digital fringing. When shooting people using the incidental meter is more accurate, but when shooting locations the spot meter is has even greater accuracy. I noticed in a few images that you shot for shadows the highlights were close to 1 1/2 . I wasn’t sure the contrast between highlight and shadow in the underexposed images were intentional. The highlight directs the viewers eye to whatever you intend it to…but I’m not sure that was the case in a few of the images. Ie: the table in the park had 20-30% from the sun which had high key highlight, and it had two sets of shadow. The tabletop shadow was lighter than the ground shadow. Another was a location shot with a high key sidewalk and the foliage shot was very dark, but the sidewalk doesn’t lead your eyes to your subject but was just there it seemed. Sorry I’m not trying to be rude. I know it was a test shot for comparing the differences.

[@ThePhotoDept]

You’re also looking at these images on a KZbin video. Jpeg images that are small already snd then compressed for video. I appreciate your enthusiasm but this slightly over complicated things for beginners.

[@thodoris805]

Man the background music is literally giving me anxiety, what were you thinking

[@stephenlawson555]

liked your video, but I think you are still over exposing some of your shots. your Sekonic can help you a lot, take a spot reading on your shadow detail and save it to memory, take a spot reading on the highlights and save it to memory, then press the average button. This should give you even better results. Also I don't know how you are scanning your negatives, but you should look at negative lab pro, this will give you even better colour on your shots. Ultimately it is your choice how you want your images to look, keep up the great work.

[@fayed.untitled]

The music was too much for me. : ( I had to mute the video to just watch it..

[@ThePhotoDept]

Lol uh, you missed out on most of the experience. Weird.

[@synlfo7828]

good video. Music is overkill.

[@ThePhotoDept]

that was the point my friend.