Meyer Rappier Pt.2

[@elsner78]

Hi Jeff, I know it has been a year since I commented on this about cuts but I wanted to come back to this point as lately I have been doing more Meyer Rappier and came across your video again. While I will agree that Meyer will break his own rules he seems to follow a sort of Specific advice beats general advice but that you should still hold to the general. In Chapter 2 starting in the 5th paragraph (Forgeng translation) he says "For when you send in your cuts against his upper part, whether they take place from above, diagonally downward, across, or from below, you must remain upright and high with your body, so that, as far as your height allows, your shoulder stands levels with the upper part at which you are cutting or thrusting." "This shall not take place with the other cuts you send against his lower body, but the lower you cut, the more you shall lower your upper body, which must be achieved with stepping, as you will find it described later in more detail in the section on the cuts. For if you bring your body down for the cuts that you intend to deliver against his upper body, then your stroke is shortened; likewise when you intend to cut below, and your body remains upright and high, then your cut is not only shortened, but you also make your upper body entirely open." I think the confusion is that when he says "This shall not take place with the other cuts that you send against his lower body" he is referring to standing as tall as you can not the shoulder rule. He goes on to mention this rule again when talking about the Diagonal High Cut (pg 180-181 second column last paragraph to first on 181). "Now for the lowest cross you must stand with you feet even further apart, and you shall also have you forward knee flexed further forward than before, so that you stand sunk downward with you upper body that much more than has taken place before; and as with the other, you come with your right shoulder to the height of the target. If your body will not allow you to do this, then you should not execute the lower cross, for it is not for everyone, etc. For when you cut at his lower legs, and yet remain upright with your body, then he can rush immediately at your face with a straight thrust, although on can unexpectedly execute a Foot Cut at him on the side before he realizes it." Again I want to say that I like your video a lot but I think this is a pretty important feature in Meyer's rappier techniques that often gets overlooked.

[@TSDSoCal]

Hi Ted, Welcome back! I, too, have been giving this a lot of thought and looking into furthering my knowledge and instruction in this system. And, the more I look at it and play with it, I agree when it comes to the diagonal cuts. I have incorporated this specific lowering into my presentation of cuts in my most recent curriculum.

[@elsner78]

Jeff Jacobson Awesome. I really did enjoy these videos and if you ever get a chance to make more that would be great.

[@THEDREADPIRAT3]

Great demonstration. I love using long edge up during lunges.

[@TSDSoCal]

What my translation says indicates that your cuts and thrusts at the upper targets (high cuts/diagonal cuts) the body remains with the shoulder level with the targets, but then follows "This shall not take place with the other cuts you send against his lower body", but that you should lower yourself as much as you can, but as I read it, do not have to regard the rule of the shoulder level with the target.

[@TSDSoCal]

P.S. Great questions by the way, and thanks for taking an interest in the video!

[@elsner78]

Great series of videos you have here. I only have one comment/question. You mention specifically when dealing with the thrusts that "whatever height you thrust at that is the height your should should be" and you then demonstrate that. However Meyer applies that rule to his strikes as well. In chapter 2 of his rapier section he says that your shoulder should always be at the height of your target and for low cuts you will get to this height with stepping. Wouldn't doing this change your version?

[@TSDSoCal]

Meyer's images show primarily simple cross hilts, or guards with a single side ring, neither of which it would be appropriate to place a finger over the ricasso. We does not address the issue (although he doesn't address the idea of gripping the sword too much either). My sword is designed to be used primarily with a finger over, though I find I tend to slip around a bit changing the position of the hand based on the use of upcoming technique.

[@TSDSoCal]

Following that, in the description of Longpoint, he is very explicit on the nature of thrusts and lowering the body to have the shoulder level with the height of the target, but then in examples like the "groin thrust", he thrusts upwards from under your opponent's blade (depicted in part 3 of this video), where I believe lowering the body to be a detriment to the action. So, as explicit as Meyer can be sometimes, sometimes (as with most Masters) he seems to violate them for specific purposes.

[@kohmsford]

Great interpretation. Only question I have for you is if you think Meyer would have Advocated using a finger on the Ricasso or the Rapier? I know the rapier of Meyers time was different than what we know today, just wanted your thoughts on it.

[@TSDSoCal]

Yep, had it custom made, though so you won't find it on the site

[@permhaaland]

awesome vids. Is that a darkwood sword? :)

[@IaMaPh1991]

Is it just me, or do the Suppressing Cuts remind me a little but of the Krumphauw in a way?

[@IaMaPh1991]

Using them against thrusts also reminds me a LOT of Fiore's Rompere di Punta, a fundamentally similar action. :) Great video btw!

[@TSDSoCal]

I think fundamentally they get used very similarly in the rappier section, for sure. Though, there is a bit of distinction between long and short edge use. You can, for instance, suppress with a short edge Krumphauw and it provides a slightly different dynamic. The Krumphauw refers to an edge orientation, the "suppressing cut" is the line the cut travels.

[@exohead1]

The bad German is cringe-tastic. Now if only we could find german fencers who actually speak German, then I'd be happy.