Miami Condo Collapse Cause: Palm Trees? Poor Concrete Mix?

In this video on the Miami condo collapse we will discuss whether those tall palm trees that were on the pool deck may have had anything to do with the building collapse. We know that the palm trees disappeared sometime around 2018 and we don't know if they were pulled out by heavy equipment that maybe should not have been on the pool deck, or if it was from a weekend pool deck that got weaker when the trees toppled these are questions that we need to find the answers to.
⛔⛔ Official Surfside Support Pages, only send aid to vetted support sites! There are scams related to disasters, you should avoid unvetted fundraisers.
⛔ Support Surfside: supportsurfsid...
⛔ GoFundMe Official Vetted Pages for Donations to Surfside collapse victims: www.gofundme.c...
We will also update you with photos from the now excavated site of the collapse, as well as reveal startling new information about potentially weak concrete that may have been used in the columns of the building. We also show you the proper places to donate to help the surfside cause without getting scammed. do not donate to any person website or entity asking you for money for surfside that isn't part of these two links below that have been vetted. Anything other than those two sides below are likely to be scams. one person has already stolen the identity of several of the dead victims in trying to get credit in their names.
ENR article about concrete columns below PSI requirements:
www.enr.com/ar...
Watch our Other Videos from this series:
📺 WATCH: Inside Miami Condo Collapse Ring Camera Frame By Frame
• Inside Miami Condo Col...
📺 WATCH: Miami Condo Collapse: How A Pool Deck Brings Down Buildings
• Miami Condo Collapse: ...
📺 WATCH: Miami Condo Collapse: Could Pool Deck Work 2020 Cause It?
• Miami Condo Collapse: ...
📺 WATCH: Analysis Garage Video BEFORE Condo Collapse: Water Everywhere
• Analysis Garage Video ...
📺 WATCH: Here's Cause Of Miami Condo Collapse Champlain Condo Towers, Surfside
• Here's Cause Of Miami ...
📺 WATCH: "Miami Condo Collapse 4K Video From Street What News WON'T Show!"
• Miami Condo Collapse 4...
📺 WATCH: "More On Miami Condo C
We also show you in this video here an enhanced screenshot from the agent now famous tourist video of the collapsed pool deck into the garage floor minutes before the building collapsed and from here you can see much more clearly all of the debris on the floor of the garage.

[@raymondcaruso507]

I worked as a ready mix driver in Florida years ago. I was pouring the walls and foundation. What started as a certain psi was drastically reduced. By the time I was done, for 10 yards I probably added 40 to 50 gallons and way past the expiration of the mix. I tried telling the contractors that the mix was no good anymore about 1 and a half hour. It kept heating up and they kept adding water. I eaven called dispatch and was told to stay on the job. These were close to million dollar homes at that time. These are the type of people building home and condos in Florida. Saw it fist for myself.

[@notgreatnotterrible48years63]

I have learned so much about buildings/safety/structuring from Jeff’s videos. I had absolutely no knowledge on any of this whatsoever before I found his channel. He makes amazing videos

[@_PatrickO]

He is following behind better people. Just watch "Building Integrity" who is a much better source.

[@ZilrenNana]

Me too.👍

[@notgreatnotterrible48years63]

@@_PatrickO I’ll check it out, thanks! :)

[@budimpla]

@@_PatrickO, both are good.

[@dominicc1986]

You are right Jeff. There seem to be so many factors involved in the building collapse. Its painful to know that most of it could have been avoided. People living in low lying areas prone to flooding have to be careful as well. Frequent flooding can cause a lot of damage.

[@Userxyz-z2d]

Flooding would have to be often- like 6-10 times a year they haven't said there was ever any flooding. The water on the pool deck & garage were from the planters being watered & they leaked. That constant water drainage would decompose the concrete & rebar.

[@sydbarrett4518]

@@Userxyz-z2d It doesnt effect the foundation, nothing in the parking lot concrete effects the foundation

[@Blue..]

Basically decades of neglect and lots and lots and lots of bad decisions = building goes bonk.

[@gracieg7601]

Dominic this area with condo row - is reclaimed swamp land. So it’s unsafe in my opinion before it got condos on it.

[@susanurban5920]

One thing I’ve learned from living in south Florida for over 25 years…. everything here is about looks and beauty….who cares if it works as long as it looks great.

[@calzskilz]

As a commercial landscaper, who has installed 30-40FT palm tree's at high end resorts I can tell you that it is very easy to compromise the waterproofing that either the Concrete or Landscape contractor installs into the planters. It is very possible that for many years the waterproofing was compromised and damaging the column. Landscape installations don't receive the rigorous inspections that it should, it's all about the finish product & that it is installed per plan. The only true inspection is the pressurized main lines & pipe locations. The deeper I dive into this the scarier it get's.

[@jeffostroff]

Well one of the good things about videos like mine is it raises awareness about topics like these and I have had numerous architects and other structural engineers even tell me that they've never thought of these things before but now they will so all of these engineering failures should be taught in school but they aren't

[@disklamer]

What do you use to move those? forklift? truck with a crane?

[@survivormary1126]

@@jeffostroff That's amazing to me. I don't see how they could act like it's rocket science. Even suburban homes are required to have clean out drains nowadays for tree roots and such, so a building like this not being up to modern day code is truly criminal. I'm really glad your doing the work you are with this.

[@thenationalparksguy.1718]

Ive been in the tree removel business for 30 yrs. Any professional tree service or professional climber would never never free fall these trees to the property below, especially being it was concrete & a chance of doing damage. That being said, you never know what some will do..

[@chris_drivefast_diesmiling4898]

And JLG type lifts are not rated nor designed for lifting more than the weight of 2 people and tools. A forklift makes more sense to remove and would cause substantially more damage, especially to already weakened concrete.

[@CosmicStargoat]

You are pleasingly articulate and quite informed. There are just a few of these channels on KZbin that are informative without being hyperbolic. Thanks and subscribed.

[@murphy903]

Jeff, you do a great job on ALL of your videos. Thank you so much. You give a clear and thorough understanding in layman's terms and I really appreciate your integrity. If you don't know something, you tell us clearly. Great job!!!

[@wacojones8062]

when an engineer uses the term exponential increase in decay rate Referring to a concrete building should I run screaming from the building?

[@DickStahl]

Yes, but I think many folks don't understand the word "exponentially" because it is frequently misused. I think if the engineering report from 2 years ago had more clearly stated the urgency of repairs the HOA may have taken action sooner.

[@wendywoobles]

I really appreciate you providing the links to the sites to help the victims. Especially at the first part of the video. Thank you Jeff

[@believer8662]

The amount of variables is astounding. Thank you for educating us.

[@electrojones]

This is the best KZbin content going today. Thanks for your hard work and your big brain.

[@gregoryagogo]

PALM TREES THEMSELVES IS A 'TELL'... The extreme yellow fronds mean they are being over watered. 0:15

[@LakeNipissing]

The Rainbirds were killing the palm trees _and_ the slab structure...

[@chunkychicksrockyroad4518]

Glad you commented on that. I saw the yellowed leaves and wondered what caused it.

[@peterjames5569]

Jose the gardener had better be on his way out of there, looks like he's getting the wrap for soft concrete.

[@rpurdy4821]

Fronds, palm fronds. 🏝

[@michaelwerkov3438]

@@peterjames5569 nah, cant blame jose when you can blame kathy and karen who put millions into the lobby buy skimped on water proofing the deck and verifying those planters could even safely go there

[@randymays8646]

I've enjoyed your videos. You are the ONE source I've relied on. Thank you for posting.

[@jeffostroff]

Glad to help randy

[@andreajohnson4376]

I'm staying tuned all the way from Hilo, Hawaii! Aloha Jeff🤙

[@brooksrownd2275]

12:28 that's a large C/U-shaped beam that was in the ceiling of the garage in front of parking space 17, not columns. It's visible in the parking garage tour video that a lot of people have analyzed. It is BM33/BM34/BM35 in the drawings, and supports a column in the upper floors that is offset from the column grid in the garage.

[@jeffostroff]

Yes need to look into this ore. I was also wondering why they left that there on the floor, while everything else in the building was removed down to a clean floor, leaving that bathtub look about the property.

[@jacobb6788]

@@jeffostroff y would thay tear down the surviving part of the building thay could have fixed it up and repaired it thay did not have to tear it down what a waste.

[@christopherdubay3148]

@@jacobb6788 it was unsafe

[@jacobb6788]

@@christopherdubay3148 repairs repairs and more repairs are the answer.

[@christopherdubay3148]

@@jacobb6788 you are not the brightest one

[@catalinawoody6954]

Thank you so much for doing these videos. They are always so informative.

[@PaulJersey]

Great video, very well thought out. Last Saturday I had a storm blow through my backyard and had to cut up 2 large Bradford pear trees that literally split in half. When I was cutting them up and dragging the brush away I actually started thinking about the big palm trees in the planters at the Champlain towers. You don’t realize how heavy trees actually are until you have to remove one. I understand that the collapse is a very complex subject matter with a lot of variables involved, and there were many compounding causes. Adding those huge planters and heavy palm trees was not a good move to say the least.

[@coldwaterjimmy7044]

Thank you Jeff. Your excellent analysis of the Surfside building collapse continues. I look forward to your updates.

[@jeffostroff]

Thanks Jimmy!

[@getx1265]

Thanks again, Jeff. You do a really good job of explaining what we're interested in knowing. I look forward to your next one. I've enjoyed each one you've posted.

[@dannystephen591]

Thank you Jeff for taking the time to do this. I kind of stumbled on here this morning reading some other news stories and watched it. I’m sure it will be a long time before the investigation is completed but makes sense like mentioned in the beginning of video probably a series or group of things that caused this terrible collapse. Thank you again for taking the time to prepare this. I hope some important things are figured out that will help improve existing structures that may also be weak so this terrible tragedy doesn’t happen again., Danny

[@SlackerU]

Tree roots can literally thread themselves through PVC threaded fittings on my yard sprinklers in less than a year. The tree roots also get in-between our concrete driveway culverts & split them apart. Odds are the extremely thin waterproofing was a really really poor choice to cut costs on.

[@robertgreiwe2183]

...Tree roots can be a problem, but not here....it seems to be last minute changes adding trees, maybe resulting in really bad waterproofing after installing the planters and then never actually taking the initiative to really close the building and pull everything out down under the pool deck and on top of the deck, taking core samples and replacing beams and columns if necessary. Having the decking tied into the building was a really bad idea? This might be necessary for a sea wall connecting the sea wall together way out in front of a building, but this? didn't seem like it was necessary at all. (beam).

[@nicholasconder4703]

I doubt this was the issue here. From what I know, unlike most deciduous and coniferous trees, palm trees tend to have shallow roots that form a ball or mat of roots. They don't tend to form long, sinuous roots like other trees (eg. willows, alders, birches, etc.). One thing that has turned up in the videos I have watched is that the concrete slab that formed the roof of the garage was delaminating. Core samples collected by the consulting firm indicate this was happening, and there are a couple of photos that support this theory. This means that the bulk of the underground garage ceiling was separating from the rebar mat, creating a 7-8" concrete slab that was virtually unsupported. This would explain the diagonal cracks and water seepage in the garage roof. The question then arises if the collapse of the pool deck into the garage was part of the chain of events that caused the collapse, or an indicator of bad concrete pours that were the real culprit.

[@susanurban5920]

Tree roots can lift and destroy a driveway.

[@nicholasconder4703]

@@susanurban5920 You don't have to tell me. I just have to look at my cracked and broken driveway to see that. However, as far as I know, palm trees don't put down roots in the same manner as most other trees.

[@kimberleywinterbauer5286]

All of this technical information was beyond my understanding, but your videos have provided explanations that I can even understand. Thank you for your informative videos.

[@rollothecat2010]

The company that did the destruction of the remaining part of the complex were engineers so they got to examine that remaining part. I am sure that they were as curious or more so than the rest of us. We really need to know. So many people died in this collapse. We cannot let this ever happen again, anywhere in the world. We need scientific facts.

[@danielwanner8708]

Structure collapse are more common then we know . Bridges are ready to fail because of age and loads that they weren't designed for .

[@melikey3758]

@@danielwanner8708 well the time frame they were meant to last has long since past.

[@melikey3758]

Chinese buildings fall down all the time, you won’t hear about it because the CCP builds the buildings and controls the flow of info in and out of China. Building codes and practices in other countries are not the same as the US and they fail all the time. This doesn’t happen that often in the US because we are SUPPOSED to be free and have free enterprise, so If a company builds bad building and people die, they can loose business and be sued out of existence. If a government mandates building practices and builds the buildings themselves because they own everything, they will also be exempt from liability.

[@danielwanner8708]

@@melikey3758 remember the bridge collapse in Italy ? yes there are federal buildings without fire alarm

[@ZilrenNana]

There are probably 6 to 7 buildings, if not more; in every major city that werent constructed up to building standards. We all know they cut costs... DC needs to repair our interstates and bridges. What are they doing in DC???? Fighting over infrastructure, running off NOT doing their jobs, but have added everything including the kitchen sink to the infrastructure bill, while people died.

[@vgernyc]

Where I work, we had 2 buildings that each originally needed 2 different types of concrete. However the contrite was accidently swapped by the contractors. One of the buildings received a soft concrete that was highly prone to leaks when it rained to the point the central stairwell was a waterfall (no exaggeration!). The other was designed with very thick concrete and mistaking received a very strong concrete mix meant for the 1st building that was a pain to modify. We ended up calling this building The Bunker as it likely could withstand a nuclear blast and looked the part.

[@danasuperstar]

This could explain why the building was weak all the way up with chunks cracking and falling off, and tide water coming into the basement.

[@raver208]

These videos are amazing.....my father is a civil engineer so I have legitimate interest in learning about these factors, plus I am on a condo board myself and these are the types of nightmares I always fear and never want to kick the "proverbial can" down the road.....just for such reasons as this collapse. = [

[@nightscape2008]

Every day is a new layer of the puzzle. It really helped when you put it all together from all the problem areas to the outline of the building collapse. Much appreciated!

[@ilovealaska2000]

The tourist photo ( 9 min 25 seconds) looks like the pool deck had collapsed. The color imaging shows a better view,than the the original footage. This guy is good at explaining what may have happened.

[@PattyKuluCakes]

Just type 9:25 and we can click on the timestamp.

[@KayInMaine]

Yes, large chunks from the garage ceiling (shared with the pool deck floor) and possibly some columns/beams had fallen in that video.....seven minutes before the building collapsed.

[@sarahritchie6087]

@@PattyKuluCakes clever! Never knew you could do that!

[@Kimbyrleigha]

Been checking back every few hours for a new video (now I know how my subscriptions feel when I havent posted 😳)

[@susanajimenez9030]

Isn’t his voice so soothing. I want him to do a weekly recap of life lol

[@d.menace9256]

Right

[@michaelwerkov3438]

maybe in a few months well get a tag team true crime video: the case of the careless condo association

[@Brooke52528]

@Michael David Caprarella Yeah, and at the end of his video's the circled pic of him with the drills covers his whole head! But I'm sure KZbin creator's are learning all the time and his CONTENT is immaculate, so I'll stop being picky about editing!😊

[@nevinovermiller6157]

False be assumption

[@pauls4294]

Back in the early 80's, I worked for an engineering firm in either Cocoa or Melbourne, FL (Don't recall which city) and my job was to take concrete samples from construction sites. At that time, many condos were being built in and between the towns of Cape Canaveral to Melbourne Beach, all along the beach. My job was to take samples of the concrete and put it in a cylindrical tubes, about 18" high by ~ 8" in diameter. You need to use a metal bar and raise/lower it in each sample in a very specific way a specified number of times. The site super would often watch to make sure it was being done correctly. These samples were then left on site to harden and picked up a day or so later. The samples then were allowed to cure back at the facility and after a few days, the first one would be put in a compressing machine to see how much pressure it took to crush the cylinder. Samples were crushed after (I believe, but it was some time back) 3, 14 and 30 days. Concrete hardens more the older it gets so each sample should break. To make a long story short, many, many samples failed while I worked there (a short 7 months or so) and nothing was ever done. By the time the sample from (for eample) the 2nd floor was fully tested, the building was already on the 4th (or so) floor... there was no way to "fix" it. My guess is that what happened in this video may well happen again and it could happen anywhere along the Florid coast....

[@jeffostroff]

That is scary Paul!

[@johnpeterson7264]

Well that’s worrisome . It would seem we need a way to test concrete right on the spot - before it hardens (and of course before they pour another floor.

[@user-pd7cr1kf6i]

Started with your Titan sub videos, and here I am, learning why a church steeple collapsed. Never thought this would interest me, but you do a great job teaching and making it interesting!

[@uncommonsense5876]

0:55... CDI is the premier demolition company, in THE WORLD.. they are the seal team 6 guys top tier level demos that get called in for the most difficult demolitions in the world. Serious pros. So if they said its less than 6k psi, then it less.

[@errorsofmodernism9715]

Did they do the WTC?

[@gregj.gotham4402]

@@errorsofmodernism9715 no that was the family from the bush far down in the family.

[@TechandTools1]

Exactly, like he said in the video. You do something everyday and are at the top of your game you know what you're dealing with. For instance I do construction work and can tell level and measurements by eye (roughly) just like bolt head size. You get a feel for these things. So if you're saying these guys are the real pros and they said the concrete was not even close than it wasn't even close. I can tell good concrete by an sds hammer drill, I don't even specialize in concrete. Basically this place was just waiting to fail, too many factors working against it.

[@Deeked]

Excellent job on putting together your investigation. Especially knowing you've probably gathered most of this on your own.

[@jeffostroff]

Thanks David!

[@Deeked]

@@jeffostroff No, thank you

[@skipstalforce]

I've always had I problem with this type of concrete rebar construction for structures taller then 3 stories. Tiny columns and no diagonal support save the shear walls. Not me brother. I wouldn't live in one of those.

[@mudman6156]

I wouldn’t live in such a building either. If this building had concrete load bearing walls between the units the building would probably still be standing. But it’s only strength was in it’s skinny columns and the rebar that came out of them to hold up the floor slabs. It’s blatantly obvious what happened here. The rebar that was outside the footprint of the main building all rusted away causing the pool deck to collapse. The problem was, the rebar from underneath the building itself hadn’t rusted away, so that heavy pool deck concrete pulled down on one side of the columns at the edge of the building until one finally collapsed. Without the robust steel beams found in steel frame buildings however, there’s no alternative path for the load around a collapsed column get to ground. This type of construction simply can’t tolerate any of it’s columns from collapsing and still remain standing for very long. This type of construction is extremely dependent on there being absolutely NO WATER PENETRATION getting to the rebar where it can start rust forming. I’ve seen the damage rusted out rebar can do to concrete first hand. A bridge near my home had that issue, causing one of the huge concrete beams to split completely in half. Thankfully the bridge hadn’t collapsed before emergency repairs were made. But that concrete beam , although split, was still sitting on it’s very large columns. That’s clearly not the case with this building. Except for the front part of the building, the columns were far too skinny for the amount of rebar they need to have tied into them. There couldn’t have been a very large safety factor placed in this construction. Doubtful it would’ve made any difference either way, as it’s obvious from the photos taken in the parking garage that very little maintenance was ever accomplished, and that which was was completely inadequate for the building. This is probably the worst choice of construction for this type of location because of the salt air environment. Take note…it was the concrete wall surrounding the elevators that saved the front of the building from further collapse. That proves my point about the decision to leave out concrete load bearing walls. Not only would they have made this building far safer, they would’ve provide a means for a fire break as well. No doubt, the framing throughout the remainder of the building was thin steel framing in lue of 2x4’s.

[@joestewart8914]

There's a condo in New York at 432 Park Avenue that opened 6 years ago. It's built with concrete rebar and it is 85 stories tall. It's roof is 1,397 feet above street level.

[@gregoryagogo]

I think standards have change a lot since this era.

[@joestewart8914]

@@gregoryagogo Yes, they've changed. Perhaps they've gotten a lot worse: there was a recent story in the New York Times about how 432 Park Avenue is already failing in many ways. But the person who bought the penthouse new in 2015 for $88.7 million now has it up for sale, asking $169.0 million.

[@skipstalforce]

@@joestewart8914 It's beginning to look like the beams under the planters caused the critical failure of one or two columns by rotational forces applied to the tops of the perimeter columns after the deck had a punch threw. One or two columns started a chain reaction.

[@davidbohacec]

Every company have their own way of removing palm trees , but the most basic is with a climber going up and start cutting the fronds , then the trunks in pieces and rigging them down with ropes , and the pieces got to be small enough for a person to carry them out. Normally a 2 or 3 foot sections and they shouldn’t weight more then 90 pounds .

[@justaskin8523]

This makes a lot of sense. But would a landscaper have actually done that? My HOA has dealt with some real goofy service providers over the years.

[@Reality_Based_Fantasy]

@@justaskin8523 this is Miami beach/Surfside we're talking about, Only citified companies work in these buildings.

[@mattbrawner7888]

Maybe, but there is the possibility that they removed it with heavy equipment. It would definitely be cheaper to just have it done that way.

[@allanhwhite.kineticmobiles]

@@mattbrawner7888 , Matt, just bringing in a small crane is expensive. Crane operators are professionals and totally understand the set-up needs of their equipment . I think there is little or no chance that a crane was used to remove the trees, it just doesn’t make financial sense. Landscapers in Florida deal with Palm tree removal nearly every day.

[@mattbrawner7888]

@@allanhwhite.kineticmobiles well we don’t know how they were removed to it could be either scenario. Those palm trees definitely could’ve caused damage by themselves though.

[@Holly_77]

Hi Jeff!! Love your videos!! Very informative!

[@jeffostroff]

Thanks, glad you like my videos Holly!

[@jasonpoole2093]

Excellent videos. Very informative. Thanks, Jeff.

[@ajtony1313]

I just watched the 2-hour long Discovery channel program about this building collapse. They pointed to various possible causes: The poor drainage on the pool deck caused rusting of the rebars. Collapse of the deck changed the lateral support of the deck pushing against the vertical columns to lateral force pulling on the vertical columns. They also pointed out the smaller vertical columns on the sections that collapsed, and much less shear wall support in the sections that collapsed. For me, the most interesting new information was why the palm trees were removed in 2017. Reason, each palm tree planter had a large drain pipe below to remove the excess water. However, the roots of the palm trees grew into these drain pipes and split them open. Of course, this allowed an excessive amount of rain water to seep into the deck near the trees. I personally think that after they removed the trees, they did not repair the root cracked drains; no facts, just a guess. If true, then the large double planter that was likely the debris that fell into the parking garage first, was the source of significant water leakage into the surrounding rebars. Also, the large amount of parking garage ceiling spalling was under these root cracked drains. This program also featured a significant amount of commentary from residents living in or associated with the Champlain Towers. To me, one of the most interesting was the commentary by the woman who filmed inside the garage a year before the collapse.

[@jeffostroff]

That was our friend Fiorella Terenzi

[@ajtony1313]

@@jeffostroff Thank you. I could not remember her name. She was great, I really enjoyed listening to her.

[@survivormary1126]

Thanks, I'm going to try to go watch that. I've been dipping in and out of the channel to find out more and just commented on the trees destroying the pipes. Good to know far from first to realize that had to have happened.

[@ashlaunicaalpari4584]

I love how you drove the little boom lift on the photo to show how they may have removed the palm trees 🌴

[@mallarysangel]

I can't believe all the rubble is gone already. That bothers me, because I just can't believe there was enough forensic sampling done. - Now I appreciate your videos even more. At least someone is trying diligently. Thank you.

[@LakeNipissing]

You are certainly not alone. I have *not* lost loved ones in this building collapse, and even still, when I heard how fast this was "cleaned up" I was like: "Are you kidding me?"

[@VictorNewman201]

@Blue Flu The quicker the cleanup, the less loose ends to tie up and questions to answer. They can just pretend it never happened.

[@mallarysangel]

VictorNewman201 - I'm a retired police officer, and that's kind of where my mind is too. I understand what blue is saying because I've seen it happen, but the investigator in me knows that discoveries happen as an investigation goes, and hands on follow up work has to be done. This is huge, so I don't see how they could possibly have time to do all they needed. What happens is that you know you won't get the time or access you need to do a proper investigation, so you settle on as much photographic evidence as possible, but it's never enough. When somebody may be criminally liable, I don't take seizing their freedom lightly. If you're going to put criminal charges on someone, it's very difficult to look yourself in the eyes through a mirror when you don't feel as close to 100% positive about the accusations. This is a criminal investigation, also, after all. - Let me put it like this; I'm not a 9/11 truther, I'm an investigator. So I remember how fast the destruction of evidence happened in that case. The one that bothered me most was WTC 7 because there was nobody in that building, and the hope of finding survivors was not a reason to destroy evidence. Since it was the only metal skyscraper to completely collapse due mostly to fire, and since we all trust the buildings over our heads to remain in tact, I can't imagine how you learn anything from a fraction of various debris removed and stored in a hangar. There's nothing wrong with asking questions. - Hope I don't start a 9/11 conspiracy battle with my comments lol. I've seen a few. I just wish we knew something that could help all the people responsible for erecting these buildings for the safety of everyone. It's an industry that gains knowledge through witnessed failure.

[@mallarysangel]

Lake Nipissing Well you obviously care about the people that did lose loved ones, and that's refreshing.

[@LakeNipissing]

@@mallarysangel I don't even know anyone who lived in this building, but when I saw the floor map of the building showing photos of the victims of each apartment, and consider the horrible fear and crushing death they endured, it brought tears to this grown man's eyes. These were totally innocent people, and the most important thing is that the *TRUTH* is revealed, so the surviving family members can litigate, and the cause(s) are correctly identified and responsible parties held legally accountable. This fast "clean up" which ultimately altered ''evidence" through repositioning and/or destruction as it was transported to an off-site location could sadly be the way evidence get tossed out of court and those who are guilty walk.

[@msann5707]

Another great explanation! 👍 And thank you for changing your pointer! Now I can follow you much better!

[@ramirorosa2377]

What amazes me from several pictures I’ve seen is the lack of concrete beams under the slab, considering the narrow section of the latter, and also the number and diameter of the rebars. Where I live (Portugal), although we are in seismic area of the globe, the slabs have to be with more height and or supported with concrete beams. In some images, before the demolition, the rebar seems to be very thin, considering the use (pool deck and car parking at ground level)…

[@gregj.gotham4402]

I agree the re bar is small diameter.

[@davidbenson1142]

My question is why is the support system for the pool deck even connected to the building ?

[@designstudio8013]

It need to be as it had no columns of their own at the building. Probably for looks..

[@asiyakap9586]

Because of the Garage space. To minimize waste of materials and macsimize free space. Just guessing. Sorry for my English, frome not English speaking person.

[@elizabethandrews4199]

When people say “pool deck” many of us think “pool”.... it was weeks before I understood there was a difference.

[@jeffostroff]

Many people also don't know the pool sits on the garage floor, many think it was built over the garage, but the walls of the pool are underneath in the garage.

[@Funsho97]

Yes, the "pool deck" is the "patio" if you will, that surrounds the pool. It would be where the lounge chairs and tables with umbrellas are at.

[@andywomack3414]

It took a while for me to realize that the garage entry ramp actually passed under the building and not the pool deck.

[@Funsho97]

@@andywomack3414 I didn't think the ramp went that far, but it did take me a minute to realize just how far the ramp went into the garage.

[@Jerseybytes2]

@@jeffostroff you mentioned the palm trees, and I was wondering, how much damage could the roots of said trees have done to the bottom of the plants, and if there was any problem, was it fixed after the palm trees were taken out. cause maybe the roots could have caused small fractures on the bottom of the planters that no one fixed, and only got worse with time. I'm asking since, if trees grow bigger and taller, the roots must get bigger as well, and those planters look rather small for bigger palm trees (sorry if I'm way off base in here, I'm by no means an expert on any of this, simply curious)

[@user-bo1bj6xw2p]

Being a tree guy you would never drop that on cement you would lower it down with ropes or some other type of equipment but you would never just free fall the top of a tree down on a finished service

[@jeffostroff]

We hope so! Not sure if you are from Florida or if the requirements are the same in your area, but here many cities require a licensed arborist to be doing the work. And there are many many companies out there that are not licensed or just guys driving around with the truck who are not licensed and condos often go with these cheap guys because they cost less money and who knows how they're doing it or if they're botching the job and damaging the tree

[@svetlanakotenko-forte2435]

Hello. Just adding to your observations: during hurricane Irma most of the trees fell down in direction to north- northwest, at least in the area of Coconut Grove and Little Havana. This was due to wind direction at time of hurricane center passing . You can apply toward collapsed building location.

[@DuckiestBoat959]

Google Coconut Grove and the plot thickens

[@jasonhaynes2952]

Is it possible the hurricane blew the trees over, which had roots imbedded under the pool deck, and caused cracks in the concrete?

[@johncoil1418]

Jeff - Please note the construction joint that runs in the n-s direction approximately in line with the west end of the pool. You have a great picture of it in your video. Not that there is no reinforcing shown in the photo. There should be both top and bottom reinforcing continuous thru the joint plus and additional #4 bar at mid depth at the keyway at 2 foot on center.

[@jonathant.powell7281]

I support your theory about the possibility of using a heavy cherry picker to remove the palm trees after a hurricane could have caused stress around the pool area next to the planter boxes and support beams underneath them in the parking garage.

[@kennydonaldson1592]

Must admit watched all videos on this channel about this collapse. Really good videos.

[@AgentAndroid]

I would imagine the deck should be designed to handle the weight of a cherry picker and possibly scaffolding in order to allow for future repairs, upkeep, painting, etc of the building externally

[@beautifulrosemary6565]

Grasping... and he seems to use building integrity on KZbin, their information. Not saying he does but it starts to sound like it "but remember it's all speculation".

[@25566]

the columns under it were skinny and beams that supported the original planters and upper driveway were removed from the plans before construction, the big palm tree planters were added without reinforcing the deck. this could have been fine, but then you add water filtration and rust in the rebar and everything gets weaker until failure

[@gregj.gotham4402]

In New York State engineers go by a simple rule an test. Engineer by three times the normal useable strength or design. This was a disaster waiting to happen, no wonder why it was sold so fast to another company as if to distance the original owners of any future failure issues.

[@susanadiasjohnson457]

One last thing, which goes to motive. My dad's dad had a cement business, and my dad used that cement. Whilst it might appear to be faulty cement, this is not the case. It is the workers who the designer used, unable to read or understand English, who wrongly mixed it. It is the slants, the lack of level surface. It is the palm trees. It is the intensely hot weather. All the above trace back to the ABJ (or similar) global construction magnate who knew well the above, operating out of Pakistan, using their workforce and trees and designs. Tyrns out they have identical condos, houses, yards, fake lakes, amusement parks, water slide parks, bridges, roads, event halls indoor and outdoor, recognizable down to the color choices, the wavy angles, etc. 20 years ago a scammer began callind my dad, telling him he wanted money for cement damage or else would proceed with a massive class action group living in the central California coastal region between Los Angeles and San Francisco. It does not take a rocket scientist to see that the scam was purposfully set up decades ago, knowing the construction would self-destruct. Once the construction tean finished, they disappeared forever, which makes it 100% guaranteed that they succeed, for nobody would e er think to look back to the original team, much less identify them. ABJ is parent of Meta which is parent to Facebook whi h is parent to Instagram and Whatsapp. Not saying it is ABJ, no, just saying Russian Dolls. All along have felt in my bones this is the "Why" of the Surfside Condo terroristic, horrific tragedy.

[@moniquem783]

Way back on that first video showing the spalling in the pool equipment room, I’m pretty sure anyone with half a brain understood that it was significant because it was an example of what must’ve been happening in other parts of the building and you weren’t saying that a completely intact pool caused the collapse. You can’t fix stupid, but you can block them! 😂😂😂 The little cherry picker graphic made me laugh. Nicely done!

[@shrodingerschat2258]

Do you have any reaction to the engineer who just a few days ago submitted a letter to the city saying that the remaining garage walls are in danger of collapse because they are not shored up and that there is a risk to Collins avenue traffic and pedestrians?

[@johnmccrea8106]

Jeff you have done an excellent job on this report. Please keep it up!!!

[@jeffostroff]

Thanks John!

[@eulinpetit-woodyear6816]

Something is really bothering me everytime I look at the remaining steel in the columns. Where are the stirrups that are tied around the upright steel to give it strength against buckling under load? I just don't see them not even a remnant.

[@m.5051]

Stirrups do not keep the column from buckling. They are called shear stirrups and they resist...shear. They also restrain the longitudinal reinforcing.

[@eulinpetit-woodyear6816]

@@m.5051 www.civilengineeringforum.me/types-of-stirrups/

[@survival6614]

The morale of the story is: never put a garage under a multi-story building.

[@Heckleburger]

Not really....

[@gracieg7601]

I’ve got a friend who lived in a condo building in Chicago. She said on real windy days she can feel her buildivg sway. Not for me. I couldn’t believe it when she told me that.

[@John-we7jx]

@@gracieg7601 Buildings are designed to bend, otherwise they’d break !

[@Matter-of-Fax]

How many building in nyc have garages under them… I don’t think that’s the issue

[@toninocars]

Concrete seems to be bad on the entire building, a good quality concrete is smooth and shiny outside, but that one is like sponge rough and rotten, I am not an building engineer but that is obvious.

[@rahla53]

The tenants had around 7 to 8 mins to escape, if they would have acted promptly, to the warnings of the noise, to the lady screaming at them when they went out to the balconies, etc., but this is life, we are never prepared for death, we never expect this could happen to us, :>(

[@Heckleburger]

Honestly that is a fair point, surprisingly the fire alarm should have been going off because of sprinkler riser flow. That in itself should have caused the whole building to evacuate.

[@stevebowser7248]

Great Vids Jeff. Poor compressive concrete is a huge question mark. A compression failure is usually sudden and massive. Wen rebar fails, its elastic, and deforms. Reinforced concrete is normally deigned to fail at the rebar, and not concrete. That gives everyone a chance to get out.

[@gregj.gotham4402]

More important is the core samples you showed in earlier videos. Showed powdery area in the core sample. That doesn’t happen due to core drilling. That concrete was not up to code, someone saving money on concrete. There are many things wrong with this building. The four re rods is also a issue there should of been many other re rods vertically and welded to horizontal re rods. This was a criminal building design that never should of been approved by the Architects let alone the building code officer on site during erection of this failure of a design. Seems someone received a lot of money to look the other way during construction. Tear down the north building before you have another building failure.

[@LakeNipissing]

Interesting... until I read the last sentence you wrote, I was going to state: "But, the North (twin) building is still standing and occupied." Also, KZbin channel "Building Integrity" went into great detail in a video about the slab core samples, and how they were crumbling around both the upper and lower rebar layers.

[@gregj.gotham4402]

So you don’t believe that one building failure as two building built at the same time one failed to me both maybe the concrete tensile is an issue there were crack even on the top floors long before failure. I’d play it safe and at the very least do a discovery on the concrete used on both buildings. I have watched the building integrity videos personally I don’t follow him nor will I. My experience is what I’m relying on.

[@Dilberto88]

Chief Architect of the building William Friedman was suspended in 1967, after Friedman designed some structures that failed in a Hurricane. For cheapskate developer Nathan Reiber to hire him on, meant Friedman was a cut-rate Architect, by 1979.

[@sharonvizcarrondo5847]

@@Dilberto88 oh dip. See when you see a person was thrown out of place for shoddy work. Hence red flag. He should have built anything. Good job in finding the builder! I hope they don't build anything on that plot of land ever.

[@larrybe2900]

@@sharonvizcarrondo5847 There is too much money involved to let the parcel remain vacant as a memorial.

[@MSlushalot]

I got so happy when you uploaded a new video.

[@jeffostroff]

Thanks lushalot

[@Funsho97]

Yeah, no sinkhole. The woman who called her husband from her balcony said it looked like a sinkhole had opened up at the pool, which, in her defense, that's exactly what it would have looked like from her vantage point. It was not a sinkhole or else the columns and floor of the garage would also be caved inward. That pool is built tough for sure. Whoever built that pool, if only they had built the actual building that strong!!! I watched as they got pretty much everything cleared out, they were pumping water from the garage area into the pool, crazy!!! Did you notice all the water that is still entering the garage area??? I believe this whole thing was from the result of salt water intrusion cycles over many years weakened the concrete everywhere in that parking garage, weakened columns just finally gave out. The salt water intrusion started in the '90's and obviously is still continuing, even now as the building is gone. The smoking gun is salt water intrusion left to do what it does for many years. That's my take anyway.

[@LakeNipissing]

Ironically, the pool is part of the original 1979 plans, including the filter / pump room in the narrow area between the pool and the south wall. It seems at some time part of the large pool was notched out to accommodate the Jacuzzi.

[@jeffostroff]

A Lot of residents likely never knew the pool deck was over the garage. I bet many though the garage was only under the building

[@LakeNipissing]

@@jeffostroff In the beginning, watching your videos, it was hard to imagine the layout until you used the overlay - I believe it even had you fooled that there were parking spaces beyond the building on the north (88th St) side.

[@stlsmooth1]

I want to know is why did they remove the damaged columns in the cleanup? You would think they would have left them standing to help the investigation. But most if not all are cut down almost to the slab with just rebar sticking out.

[@fromisheon4867]

If the folk lift caused the invisible damage to the pool deck, the pool deck is way too weak.

[@danielwanner8708]

forklifts /scissor jacks are extremely heavy add the weight of the tree , your asking for trouble

[@mudman6156]

@@danielwanner8708 The pool deck collapsed because the water penetrated down into the concrete where it was able to rust out the rebar. If you look at the earlier photos showing where the columns had punched through the pool deck, it’s what you don’t see that’s the issue here. And what you don’t see are large strands of rebar that were ripped out from the bottom of the pool deck to where they tied into the tops of the columns. That’s because they had completely rusted away, removing those attachments. But those attachments would’ve still been viable where the pool deck transitioned into the bf loop slab of the first floor, because those areas had a 13 story building overhead to keep the water from getting to the rebar. That in turn, placed an enormous load to one side of those skinny columns, working to pull them over. This is exactly where the building first started to collapse.

[@danielwanner8708]

@@mudman6156 so drainage was never considered when the building was designed ? Seems almost impossible . But then again I worked on a building where the staircase was left out .

[@C0LT0NTV]

100%. At a yard or more of wet soil per planter + the palms, those planters could've met or exceeded the weight of a forklift. If a forklift was an issue, then those planters sure would have been

[@dealsfromvirginia1773]

Truly perplexing as there is no sign of obvious failure after clearing site.

[@mudman6156]

If I was living in either of the other two buildings, I would sell my unit and move. The same contractor built all three of these buildings. All three are built using the same type of construction. This type of construction is highly vulnerable to water penetration.

[@electricianron_New_Jersey]

Another great video Jeff!

[@Alanoffer]

I worked on the construction of a road bridge when I was young , every truck that turned up with concrete samples were taken and immediately tested by on site engineers . I know because I was the one putting a pail into the mix to take the sample . It was taken seriously , I’ve no idea if this still goes on in structures that are under load like this ,

[@waitaminute2015]

Good point!

[@johnpeterson7264]

How does one do that test ? That would be very interesting

[@waitaminute2015]

@@johnpeterson7264 I think like making a sandcastle with a bucket of cement.

[@allanhwhite.kineticmobiles]

There are at least two types of tests taken from each new truckload of concrete, The first is a slump test (ASTM C143) which verifies that the truck's patch does not have too much water in it. kzbin.info/www/bejne/oHW4goJjl9Nrprc The second set of tests (ASTM C31), from each new truckload is taking three samples that will be using for testing the compressive strength of each batch. kzbin.info/www/bejne/j6ewiHaJi66tjKs

[@Keela5]

Such a sad loss of life...thank you for all your work. I am finding it so interesting!

[@chrisbadger8684]

The odds that there is any footage from the security camera I would consider to be very low. The cameras themselves have no storage, but they will have a line that feeds to a DVR which captures and stores the video footage. The DVR could be linked to cloud storage but that likely doesn't make any difference since uploading to the cloud is unlikely be in real time, instead it would be done as a regularly scheduled process once or several times a day. Where was the DVR? if it was in the collapsed tower it would probably be crushed with no way to retrieve any data from it. You had suggested that the security system interface might be in the office, but I would suggest there is no reason to think so and logic tells me it wouldn't be there. This type of security system didn't exist when the building was built, so it would have been a retrofit. So most likely when installing the system the concern for running wires would be where and how it could be done most economically. This would be a major task even if you left the wires running exposed along the walls, which I doubt they did, and if not then a huge and expensive task. Considering the expense involved the interface wouldn't be at some preferred spot, instead at the most practical spot. I don't have floorplans of the building but by looking at the layout I would think the most practical spots would probably be in the collapsed area of the building. If you have access to floorplans look for centrally located utility rooms or closets, and if there are any of those near a chase that runs the whole height of the building that would be a likely spot. Or if you can identify a room where the phone lines are for the building that would be another possible spot. I don't think we will ever see footage of the collapse from the security system. I bet I'm right, but hope I'm wrong.

[@k-isfor-kristina]

Actually they don't have to be uploading to a cloud to be wireless. You suggest they have to be wired to a DVR. This isn't true and isn't typically the case. They are usually connected to a wifi network that allows them to download content directly to the hard drive in the DVR, without being plugged into it. Same idea as a wireless printer/scanner - when you scan an image it sends it directly to your computer via wifi, it doesn't send it to a cloud server, and you can't get that file using any random computer, it has to be the one at home. This can be cheaper if you already have a public wifi set up as you only have to pay for the hard drive and the footage just writes over itself if it's not retrieved. They can also be plugged into to an network via ethernet but be a distance away from the hard drive. That's how it works at my condo building. We recently installed a camera in the garbage building which is totally disconnected from the main building and the maintenance room but the camera is wifi enabled, so it streams the video directly to the DVR over the internet, without being plugged into anything other than electricity. The issue is, as soon as the electricity goes, the internet goes. So even if there's a backup battery in the camera AND a back up battery in the DVR/hard drive, the connection between the two is lost.

[@MichaeljRichter]

The cars I the garage may have dash cams memory cards that survived the fall. Many have accident sensors and an internal battery that records video when the vehicle is hit. My dash cam has that function.

[@JanPLopez993]

Excellent analysis !

[@jeffostroff]

Thanks jan

[@toddhupp]

interesting thoughts on the trees and equipment Jeff.What do you figure the weight of the equipment plus a tree would be? And this is occurring on an already water compromised deck-to your point.

[@Dilberto88]

The Palm tree roots were probably busting out of the planters, which is why they were all removed. Palm root systems are massive, as they seek sources of water, sometimes as deep as quarter mile for extremely tall trees.

[@jeremyuncles4562]

Consider that something like a JLG 450AJ weighs around 14,000 lbs. The tallest tree was around 20ft (estimate 100 lbs/ft) is another 2000 lbs, the planter looks like it probably holds 3 cubic yards of soil (estimate 2200 lbs/cu yrd) is another 6600 lbs, plus the weight of the concrete planter (estimate 4,000 lbs based on similar size concrete vault) puts fairly large 26,600 +/- point load on a deck that probably wasn't designed for one. That doesn't include the weight of the water that might have saturated into the concrete, etc..

[@carolbell8008]

It was all waterlogged, the entire area!

[@Paranimal86]

Another great video Jeff!

[@LakeNipissing]

Anyone else think the swimming pool which survived the disaster should be made into a memorial for the victims? Maybe filled in as a memorial garden?

[@dmhendricks]

I feel like they'd get greater benefit from the proceeds of selling high valued land.

[@LakeNipissing]

@@dmhendricks Money rules the world... sad, isn't it ? Can't spare 30' x 60' notched out of the corner in memory of the loss of a hundred innocent friends, family, loved ones.

[@LakeNipissing]

@Blue Flu The lady wanted the entire site to be a memorial. I was (reasonably) suggesting the pool only, only a small corner of the property, with everything else being sold and redeveloped.

[@chrisbarr1359]

@@dmhendricks selling to a developer AND making a memorial are not mutually exclusive. The pool memorials a good idea. I suggested a meditation garden near the beach surrounded by plantings to make it private, with a water feature, memorial wall with all names and with entrance from beach to eliminate need to go near New development.

[@CaptainCaveman1170]

There should be a memorial but inside (or maybe outside) the new building somewhere where it can both be easily found yet not be in everybody's face. It will depress the heck out of all the new tenants and their guests if there is a pool or similar item acting as a memorial. I bet my opinion will be unpopular but it's realistic.

[@kineahora8736]

The larger question is how the pool deck/visitor parking floor/garage roof collapse (which definitely without any question prededed the building collapse by 7 minutes) transmitted to the larger structure-my understanding is it *was* connected to the front façade columns (by at least some rebar), shook the columns during the punching shear, and this shaking caused the floor slabs to separate from the columns and then they pancaked down floor by floor. Regardless of the psi strength of the concrete in the columns, the columns themselves appeared not to fail… that said, I still don’t understand why these were 16x16 when the other portion of the building had 24 x 24-perhaps the 24 x 24 are able to withstand more deflection by punch-sheared attached slab without shaking as much…

[@kineahora8736]

@@CaptainCaveman1170 Very well said. Couldn’t agree with you more👊🏻

[@hokeypokeypots]

I think it was a combination of things that led to the collapse...poor quality construction, since the building was only 16 years old when 500' of cracks were found on the pool deck...calking the cracks instead of rebuilding the pool deck in 1996...overloading weight on the cracked deck...lack of knowledge of structural problems and their correct repairs by the condo owners and board...too long a time span for building inspection...and a hesitancy to spend so much money on the structural repairs. There was also the town's building inspector, Ross Prieto, who told the condo board that the building was safe, despite the alarming report from Morabito Consultants, which most likely quelled the urgency of their situation. And then there was the pandemic...and the time spent in securing a loan for the repairs. I still don't understand why they tied the pool deck to the main building when it was built. If it had been a separate unit, it might have collapsed without taking the building with it. Even if there had been heavier walls between the sections of the building, more portions of the building might have remained standing.

[@rat8356]

''building was only 16 years old when 500' of cracks were found on the pool deck''...that says something

[@hokeypokeypots]

@@rat8356 I would think a building that age would be considered pretty new.

[@CaptainCaveman1170]

@@hokeypokeypots I think 1-20 years is still a "brand new" building in my book. 40 years old is just "a building". 60 years is where I would start to consider it entering "old age". In my opinion, there's no reason why a building shouldn't get to 100 years before needing any kind of structural retrofit or condemnation. And if designed right, 200 years is not at all as crazy as it sounds.

[@Dilberto88]

Developer Nathan Reiber was a construction rookie, when this project started. He was previously a Canadian lawyer running from the law of Canada. In 1979, building materials not cheap, as Reiber wanted it to be and cut corners everywhere he could. Only a rookie would start his own construction company to completely control every aspect of the job, just to fill his pockets further. Read up on him. It’s quite entertaining.

[@hokeypokeypots]

@@CaptainCaveman1170 You're right on point about that, but most buildings aren't built on a sandbar that was formerly wetland that protected the FL coastline from the worst effects of hurricanes. As far as I know, the only solid footing that a building would have in this location would have been the porous limestone beneath the sand...and the footing of Champlain Towers didn't extend to the limestone when they built it. This leaves the question...how many of those buildings on the Miami Beach sandbar are constructed well enough to wait 40 years for an initial structural inspection. Before the unfettered consumer capitalist boom of the 80s, FL was primarily an underpopulated, swampy state that grew citrus fruit. There were no regulations regarding oceanfront construction of tall condo buildings and, in order to encourage development, the powers that be down there weren't in a hurry to enact strict building codes. So a building that would be considered new if it was built on a solid foundation may age a lot quicker on the FL coastline.

[@eveninglakegems9410]

Thanks for the link to the donation place. ❤

[@Capt.SumTingWong]

I don’t know if it’s as a result of how they got them down when clearing the debris, but I thought it was interesting how in some of the pictures the 3 main columns of potential failure seemed to appear bent outwards (I.e., towards the pool deck area away from the building)

[@gregj.gotham4402]

That is the direction of the building failing so sad.

[@AbbyS.Pumpkins]

I have questions and maybe they’re dumb questions, but this catastrophe has me wondering. If the association is told that the building will cost $15,000,000 to update/upgrade/renovate, what happens when some of the occupants don’t want to pay that? At what point does someone say, “If you cant pay the $15,000,000, the building will be condemned and all residents must leave.” How does all of that work???

[@Martins_Musings]

Jeff: In the pictures of cores that were taken, there are many sections of rebar removed, and some of them were pretty close to the columns. Being that the quantity if rebar seems to be on the low side, could some of these cores actually have cut critical rebar that was holding the deck fast to the columns?

[@jeffostroff]

Some of these cores I think inadvertently nicked the rebar. When you do core samples, you are supposed to use a little sonar device and move it around the area first to make sure that you are not going to cut through any rebar and then you make your core simple cuts. So if this is rebar that we see in those core samples, then the contractor was incorrect in the methods they used to make this course sample. Now the engineer I don't think you gave very clear examples to them on how to make the core sample.

[@designstudio8013]

Possibly helped to make dominoes fall. So many mistakes no one cause is possible.

[@annunacky4463]

I did process control at a local cement plant. I am also chemist so I got into the quality aspect and what can go wrong. 1- poorly made cement. Cement is ONLY the grey powder so sand , pebbles, and finally water are added to start the hardening. This is not usually the issue. Cement is tested pretty well before shipping. Once mixed in truck it is called concrete. 2- poorly made or tampered Concrete. The trucks that go do the pours, are often delayed, so they add soaps etc to keep the concrete from hardening so fast. That reduces the ultimate strength it reaches. 3- badly poured concrete with air voids and improper rock sizes. And other stuff like rebar poorly installed etc. Not putting building on bedrock or sinking support columns. I am not a structure guy, so many other potential issues. Finally people ( building maintenance) just ignored the signs. Too costly. Arrghhhhh.

[@JR-kk6ce]

You have just opened up Pandora's Box. The concrete used to repair prior spalling was not up to par. This happens over and over again where contractors jackhammer apart support columns and concrete slabs until there is no rusted rebar, and then they patch it up with low PSI concrete. The City inspectors rely on the engineer's certification that the job was done right with the correct concrete. But in reality, the contractor who was brought in by the engineer, has ben cost cutting all along to maximize his profits. The City inspectors are a joke, they just don't care as long as there is an engineer that certifies that the work was done correctly with the correct materials. All the City inspectors care about it that there is a CYA certification from an engineer.

[@garyc39]

Exactly I see fraud every where.

[@JR-kk6ce]

@@garyc39 The rotten underbelly of building departments are being expose. Ever wonder why people pay a permit expediter hundreds and sometimes thousands of dollars just to get a permit?

[@jeffostroff]

scary stuff gong on

[@kineahora8736]

Is there any way for the engineer to test the strength of the concrete used by the contractor before they certify it?

[@JR-kk6ce]

@@kineahora8736 the only concrete testing that I am aware of happens during the initial construction. There is what is called a slump test to see if there is too much water in the concrete, and samples are taken and subjected to a hydraulic compression test.

[@wanjockey]

we have man lifts at work, both scissor and boom lifts, max weight in the basket is 500 #. They are not cranes so that whole idea is a false flag.

[@jeffostroff]

We have seen them use Cherry pickers to raise a palm tree. They also have other specialized machines similar to cherry pickers that are used for this. this was merely a representation.

[@markmartin7653]

I concur. They are not cranes. And they can weigh tens of tons themselves.

[@anthonyrobison4423]

Any weight on a potentially solft pool deck will start problems including a lift.

[@rubyoro0]

I suppose you can use whatever you want. We hired a tow truck to get a darn palm off a truck.

[@danielwanner8708]

I have seen boom lifts used to lift material . A big one can weigh more then 30 000 lbs .

[@tamberlinferguson4156]

Been watching all of your videos and love it! This is literally my worst nightmare so ive been researching it heavily

[@metatechnologist]

So they put a monster planter on the most stressed column there is, then rolled heavy machinery over the same area, then they core drilled it without ever repairing it.

[@larrybe2900]

The heavy machinery is only speculation.

[@billj5645]

It would not be a problem for a properly designed building, emphasis on the word properly.

[@metatechnologist]

@@billj5645 They probably saved a buck by attaching the pool deck to the building. And not using additional rebar at the top i.e. not to specification. Not unlike Hyatt Regency walkway collapse iirc.

[@davejob630]

@@larrybe2900 Hmmm. There was the fallen crane during construction. The photos I’ve seen appear to show it fell on the deck area in question. Makes ya wonder…

[@saty580]

@@metatechnologist building integrity's KZbin channel has interesting coverage of column Punch through. It is expected that stress cracks spread out through the slab from the top of the column. Two pieces are rebar are at the bottom of the slab and another two are wider and closer to the top of the slab near each column. You can see one of these sets from the top of the slab in the view over the collapsed deck towards the collapsed building. It is a loop of rebar still attached to the broken slab. So I think the rebar is present, not omitted. However, the punch through did not leave a cap of slab on the top of each column! The answer to this should be interesting. Further, normally it is expected to see concrete attached to the rebar but almost all the rebar is clean of concrete. If the concrete is not attached then the rebar is not adding much strength to the structure. Was the concrete mix off or the curing wrong, or did the rebar rust, expand, and detach from the concrete?

[@Alanoffer]

Another thought . Water is incredibly heavy . One sq yd of water weighs roughly a 1.000pounds . That’s not perfect math , but that is a very small amount of water compared to the multiple tons in that pool as well as the pool surround ,

[@cookinmamabree6939]

The pool sat on the ground basically, well the concrete base slab. The pool deck was built around the edge of the pool with the garage in the rest of the space under the pool deck.

[@cookinmamabree6939]

If you look at the first collapse photos, the pool was still full of water. Since the garage flooded from the building pipes and no pumps worked with no power, it shows the pool was not part of the building's structure or integrity. Just a nice ornament. When the remaining part of the building was demolished, the pool was drained/empty.

[@toninocars]

If the building was in better shape and built from better quality concrete after the initial collapse of the pool deck there would have been time for residents to be evacuated before the whole building went down , but all happened so fast there was no time for escape., 😶

[@leeland3481]

Interesting analysis... Agreed there is no easy answer.

[@Dennis-ku2ur]

I think you're missing the picture here. One of the residents who lived on the first floor was outside, about 20 ft away and appears on a KZbin video stating he seen the parking garage go down first. The one that overlooked the pool deck. He said it went first, some of the cars slide out onto the pool deck and the pool deck went next. When looking at the destruction on video taken the day after, you can clearly see the parking level, with the punched columns and cars sliding out onto the pool deck. Interesting enough, can't see any rebar running between the car deck slab and the office slab (which is 18" elevated). Makes more sense to assume the parking level went first. Probably was never designed for a load of SUV's and pick-up trucks. Back then, cars were 1,000-2,000 lbs lighter.

[@waitaminute2015]

I haven't seen the video of the witness you mention, but I'm not convinced the pool deck went first either. I know witnesses saw the pool deck collapse, but that doesn't mean it went first either. After all , they couldn't see what was underneath from where they were looking.

[@artlife6210]

add that to the sagging garage slab that was tied into columns in some places with one piece of rebar,in others not tied in at all (by that large window) and youve got a real dark scenario waiting to happen

[@dmhendricks]

I'm curious how he judged the concrete to be "much softer." I remember watching a documentary on the Sampoong department store collapse. Investigators found that the concrete was very soft and was like drilling through butter, however, it was later determined that the tremors related to the collapse caused the concrete to become fractured and soft. (or something, I'm paraphrasing, I am not a professional.) I don't doubt that they are good at what they do, but some offhand comments don't mean much. Unrelated question: Is it common/allowed for the building not to match the blueprints? I know that mistakes happen, but it seems like something that should be taken seriously.

[@larrybe2900]

A solid chunk of the area would determine the make-up of the concrete.

[@pamhodges5662]

You questioned how the palm trees may have been removed. I am wondering how they were installed and when. I don’t know anything about palm trees because I live in a cold climate. I enjoy your insight.

[@jeffostroff]

Installed in 1996 as part of project to add pavers to deck and new planters to house the palm trees. This was all permitted

[@robindodd1969]

You are way too fixated on the palm trees. Even if you pick the biggest tree up and drop it off the roof onto the pool deck it shouldn't cause structural damage.

[@brnmcc01]

Very true but if you look at what the ceiling in the garage of what that pool deck looked like from underneath, it wasn't even close to what you would call a good structural slab... Even when it was brand new, and uncracked; it was built just barely able to support its own weight. Yes it was legal at the time, but almost zero safety factor. If they had had a large pool party out there on that deck with a bandstand, live band, and packed crowd dancing etc, it would have been an 'epic fail' for sure. You would have had party goers landing on top of parked cars and broken concrete down in the basement.

[@brnmcc01]

And I think you're wrong about that too. At 25 feet, a healthy palm tree is about 4500-5000 lbs. Dropped from 12 stories up, it's going to reach approx 70 mph speed when it hits the ground. 2.5 tons multiplied by approx 100 feet per second speed is going to wreck a 9.5" thick structural slab. That's nearly the same amount of energy in a wrecking ball dude... He's not fixated on the palm trees, what he's doing is looking at everything that could possibly be a contributing factor. That's how to figure out complex problems, you brainstorm and think of every single possible thing that could have anything to do with it, analyze everything, then throw out what turns out to be neglible or impossible etc. Then you apply Occam's Razor to what's left, and at the end, the simplest explanation that fits all the verified evidence gets you closer to the truth. Same thing was going on when Challenger exploded, turned out to be the cold weather plus crappy o-ring design, but there was no shortage of crazy conspiracy theories back in 1986 too... :)

[@robindodd1969]

@@brnmcc01 Look at 6:24 those are very small palm trees. Their is absolutely no way they had anything to do with the collapse of the building. Obviously you can't rule anything out at this point, but that is highly unrealistic. The building was improperly built by a cheap and controversial businessman named Nathan Reiber. Look up his history: skimming money from laundry machines, tax fraud, not paying landscaping companies for their work, losing his bar license in Canada, etc. The reason Reiber came to Miami in the first place was to escape legal/financial troubles in Canada. Their have already been multiple reports of the blueprints not matching up the physical structure. Only time will tell, but I can almost guarantee the trees were a non-factor.

[@yodaiam1000]

@@brnmcc01 The slab would not be legal at the time it was built.

[@oldschoolkcaudits2382]

The piece of equipment that your showing is not made to pick up anything other than people. They either used a crane or forklift to remove the planters and pots they were in

[@TrishDigginsDesign]

It would be beyond stupid - and already tragic - if all these people died because of some damn palm trees. I hope they discover the reason soon so this never happens again.

[@jeffostroff]

Me too, there are likely many smoking guns on this, but all you have to do is break one of the chains, and everyone is still alive.

[@runngunn]

How deep do the roots of a Palm tree go? Maybe those roots compromised the decking above one of the columns to the point it accelerated the deterioration of the rebar in that area?

[@alyssaxxy]

@@runngunn palm trees are not very deep rooted trees. That’s why they are able to fit into planters similar to that. We have one in our linai and it’s a 20ft palm in a 6x6 concrete cut out.

[@annettepora8091]

@@runngunn The palm trees were in planters. The root system would be contained.

[@runngunn]

@@alyssaxxy Thx.

[@annabel5976]

Thanks for the time you put into this. (& the proper sites to donate to!) 👍

[@travis1555]

that boom lift most likely has a basket max weight of 500 lbs. so its not picking up a whole palm tree.

[@jeffostroff]

They could have dragged it, maybe they used a crane outside the pool area.

[@johngreydanus2033]

Even before I Google it, I can tell you that palm trees do NOT weigh 200 pounds per foot, they are just fibrous, not even wood, let's fact check first.

[@justaskin8523]

@@johngreydanus2033 Because they're fibrous, they will soak up all the water you give them, from the lowest root to the highest frond, and everywhere in between. I see your fact and raise you my personal experience. :)

[@johngreydanus2033]

@@justaskin8523 well, apparently some do, but they must be thick as a Kardash azz, not like those skinny palms

[@garym444]

I hope Alan Kilscheimer and NIST are watching your videos because you have a very plausible theory. I'm very impressed with the efforts you make to help us all understand the possible causes.

[@jeffostroff]

Those guys are a lot sharper and probably have access to more evidence than you and I do we're on the outside looking in speculating, but these guys actually have the core samples in the rebar and can use real scientific methods to quantify the strength of the concrete in the rebar.

[@reallyme3573]

@ Gary M -Allyn Kilsheimer is a crook. I saw an interview which he did in the Condo, where he compared it to the pancake collapse of the twin towers. The problem with that, is that even NIST abandoned the pancake collapse of the twin towers years ago. -NIST was proven wrong on WTC7 by the University of Fairbanks Alaska, who released their final report on WTC7 in March 2020.

[@imspice]

Some of the residents will have had cctv inside their apartments. Although the apartment is gone the footage is digitally stored and still remains. Ring will know which residents inside the building used their cameras as they have the data. This needs to be explored.

[@mattbrawner7888]

I thought of that a day after the collapse. Only issue is, the people that own the accounts are likely dead.

[@imspice]

@@mattbrawner7888 but Ring will still have the data, I know GDPR laws are in place but this is a criminal investigation. The digital footage still remains even though the account holders have passed away.

[@mattbrawner7888]

@@imspice there were many ring cameras I’m sure. However the footage will be difficult to recover because of the username and email address for the account. It’s not as simple as giving a name.

[@mikegaskin5542]

We already saw one CCTV video from inside an apartment during the collapse. The data connection cuts out right as the fatal moment occurs

[@imspice]

@@mattbrawner7888 I don’t believe it will be difficult. I do believe the only issue is GDPR

[@joanfrellburg4901]

A guy climbs the tree and ties a rope around the palm and chainsaws a section then it's lifted out with a crane. That's how professional tree removal experts do it, not the way you described.

[@jeffostroff]

Condos often hire non licensed arborists to do the work. At one of my condos, the city came in and stopped the trimmers working on the palm trees because they had no license. You can't cut trees in our area without being a licensed arborist.

[@joanfrellburg4901]

@@jeffostroff One of those bucket trucks isn't designed to carry a tree, just a man.

[@joanfrellburg4901]

@@jeffostroff I just had a tree removed that was hanging over the house and found no less than 5 companies all with cranes and it wasn't cheap. $2700.

[@jeffostroff]

@@joanfrellburg4901 Tell that to the guys that use them to do this all the time.