Michael Beinhorn on Hole's Celebrity Skin drums

[@giorgiogirardi4661]

Hole was not a band that would ever fit into his production style. That is why the record is mediocre. That's on Courtney too, letting all that mainstream bullshit getting into her. Trying to be someone you are not. And I'll say more, I dare Mr. Beinhorn show us the raw versions with Patty on drums. I fucking dare you.

[@Gcssdvnkloiutesc]

Pattie was on crack. She couldn’t drum. And celebrity is a fantastic album every bit as good as Live.

[@MaxOakland]

@@Gcssdvnkloiutesc Celebrity has great songs but the production is bad

[@prairieteri]

Read Patty's book. Beinhorn's version of the drumming story is NOTHING like Patty's version....

[@alandbs329]

Yeah. Cos she was smacked out of her mind while my man was tryna produce a great record. Most overrated drummer, ever. If she was a dude, she’d have been fired WAY earlier. Way. Earlier. 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@Albatross_1823]

Her drumming on LTT is maybe top 5 drumming styles in my book. She nails it. The feel is killer. She makes that album and its light years better than Celeb skin

[@Albatross_1823]

And CS is sterile

[@jeannelane3019]

@@alandbs329 Do we know if she was? Maybe she was on a weird schedule because she was stressed out?

[@CFCMahomet]

I’ll trust Michael as he probably was lucid during the recording process

[@L--Z]

Just watch Hole live and it's clear that Patty Schemel plays drums incredibly. Thank goodness for live Hole, filmed in their heyday, and posted on youtube.

[@jcarlosO007]

Yeah. Is this!

[@mr.brenman2132]

Doubt it. If she was good enough she would have been on the record. Beinhorn doesn't accept mediocrity.

[@jamiehovis7722]

Doesn’t mean she was good during those studio sessions hitting the pipe

[@MaxOakland]

@@mr.brenman2132 Beinhorn *is* medioce

[@phillythrowbackrapchannel1149]

0:28 nah you fired Grant from soul asylum and patty from hole

[@monroeboy80]

Celebrity Skin has got to be one of my fave albums of all time. I was in high school when it came out but appreciate more now. The songs on that record are just timeless. The harmonies by Melissa, the guitar opening ALONE on "Malibu" raises the hair on my skin, the title of the album alluding to Courtney's brush with all the celebrities shes met along the way. Even album cuts like "Hit so Hard" and the lyrics on "Heaven tonight" are just awesome. I think the producer was honest in his recollection of the recording of the album. He did spend pre production time with her to prep Patty for the actual recording. It was Courtney that called it out. I think Patty was dealing with a lot of drug dependency issues at the time. When your using your not focused on the passion of making music and being the best drummer one can be. Most of the time your thinking about getting high. Michael didn't fire her I think Patty fired herself. It's sad because after her firing she ended up on the streets of L.A. living in a tent. She wasn't even drumming on the tour for the record! I'm glad shes turned her life around though.

[@lpjgj2179]

She was actually sober going on 2 years when Celebrity Skin was being recorded - it was being fired by Michael Beinhorn that sent her down the route of heroin again

[@kaitlinmojica9678]

@@lpjgj2179 exactly. Also let's not forget, she was using while recording LTT and her drumming on that record is amazing.

[@mr.brenman2132]

​@@lpjgj2179So she takes no responsibility for her own actions? I now believe Beinhorn 100%. It's not like there are any other options. Beinhorn has worked with the best drummers in the world. He knows what does and doesn't cut it. He doesn't stamp his name on mediocrity.

[@mr.brenman2132]

​@@kaitlinmojica9678You know who Michael Beinhorn is right?

[@pappyprimetime7510]

Top three in my worst rock albums of all time

[@jimorgain63]

as a drummer a never realized this was such a big deal, the way he describes it. from my point of view looking back most of the time the amps are so loud the drums are not heard, most bands never mic up the drums , playing on headphones made it worse, i had to learn to play by memory, air drums in a sea of noise, singing like that as well so loud you cant hear anything!

[@tom_123]

Seems like a bad match from the start. A producer pushing to get a band member removed from their own record is a fucked up situation, even if he believed she wasn’t delivering the exact sound he wanted. Also, seems like she could have done with having her band mates in the studio for support. Bullshit they made him remove her too, rather than talk to her themselves. It comes across as cowardly bullshit in the Hit So Hard documentary too. Courtney’s pretty fucked, but Melissa and Eric should have had her back, especially given the recent deaths of Kurt and Kristen. Must have been a really rough time. Lastly, seeing how well she played the tracks live shows she could have laid down those tracks real well, given the right producer.

[@mr.brenman2132]

If you don’t have a good drummer you have nothing. You're only as good as your weakest link. Beinhorn has worked with the best drummers in the world. He knows what is and isn't acceptable. You essentially wanted them to get a producer that doesn't produce anything.

[@ExcitedAnacondaSnake-hg8ec]

Music isn’t a game or a vacation or even a family as average people imagine. It’s no different than a carpentry business or firefighters. It’s about getting a job done. In this case it’s music. Drummers are the most important instrument in any kind of pop music. People move and groove to drums not singing or a melody.

[@MaxOakland]

@@ExcitedAnacondaSnake-hg8ec That's a pretty sad way to look at music. People like you forget that "perfect" is an illusion and sometimes chasing it results in something worse. Like how Celebrity Skin is worse than Live Through This and Pretty on the Inside

[@thedaveut]

This is still a subject of contention. In the documentary "Hit so Hard" she states that she was in fact clean. Michaels assistant engineer or one of them stated in said documentary that Michael was hitting the Dim button and not necessarily paying close attention. To be clear I am coming for the perspective of a drummer and a superfan of Michael's work. I am wondering if anyone has any more insight on this. Was she high? Was this a manipulation and or a favor to the session drummer? Or was she just not getting it done and or inundated with red light fever? I'm just so curious on this.

[@freeecountryy]

And that's why Celebrity Skin is generic and lifeless, while Live Through This still sounds fresh today.

[@jasonnn2284]

I'm not even sure how fair it is, to compare the two. Celebrity Skin is a good record. Live Through This is a total classic, it's a road trip record, it's huge.

[@ChaseSummers]

Live Through This is timeless, but I wouldn't say Celebrity Skin is generic and lifeless, it's a fantastic record.

[@freeecountryy]

@@ChaseSummers It's cool you like it but it didn't resonate with me. They dropped their drummer Patty who was a major part of the bands sound in favor for a studio drummer who basically plays like a drum machine. While that works for light rock and other kinds of pop for the masses it took a lot of the raw punk energy out of their songs. Live Through This was written mostly by the band, with some help from Kurt who donated some riffs he had lying around (this is a fact and while I'm not claiming he wrote the record, I've read it in interviews where COurtney was bugging him for some guitar riffs he said she could have) and CS was written by a whole team of producers and worst of all, Billy Corgan. That song "Malibu?" They should be embarrassed for writing something so boring and meaningless. I don't like it when a group that comes from the underground makes an obvious jump for mainstream radio like that through songs that are written with mainstream appeal as their number one goal. It's soulless and dull. Don't even get me started on the videos and Courtney's image during this time.

[@smkxodnwbwkdns8369]

You can dislike the record but it certainly isn’t generic and lifeless. Be more careful with language and don’t just throw random buzz words at the wall. Try to be honest in your assessment because let’s be honest, the record is high energy, lively, and joyful. It is also highly creative, melodic, and original.

[@smkxodnwbwkdns8369]

@@freeecountryy it’s not a fact Kurt wrote riffs on the record you dipsit. The story is she was asking for riffs from Kurt, and Kurt slammed the door in her face and said “no”. Also, by the time Courtney was recording live through this, every nirvana song had been bootlegged live at that point, so if he had any riffs laying around, you would hear it on in utero or a bootleg. Courtney also didn’t write the riffs. All the riffs were written by her guitar player Eric.

[@RandyHanley]

It must be chilly in that room.

[@ClassicTVMan1981X]

Before he worked with the likes of the Red Hot Chili Peppers, Hole and Soundgarden, he worked with Herbie Hancock, most notably on 1983's Future Shock that had the instrumental hit "Rockit."

[@sticksman1979]

Beinhorn is an OG.

[@scratch5191]

Patti is the shit. There are like 3 good songs on Celebrity Skin. Its saturated with production and the song writing isn't bad it's the "dazzle" this guy pissed on them. Like X's Ain't Love Grand the hired help ruined what were great songs plain and simple. They got robbed. Burned. How anyone can deflect this on a artist shows weak character. Or assholism.

[@smkxodnwbwkdns8369]

Or he’s a great and successful producer and you’re a nobody. Art should always come before peoples egos. If you want to make music for your ego, make music by yourself.

[@scratch5191]

@@smkxodnwbwkdns8369 thanks for the sage advice. I will follow your enlightened wisdom. How would I know that my rights to express my opinions needed to be evaluated by an expert such as yourself. Although I invented punkrock in my mother's womb in 62 and all the responsibilities that come with it, you are doctor phil and I've watched you and learned from you to either flip the channel, shut off the interweb and get introspective about my shortcomings and evolution into the mediocrity that is you. Mahalos.

[@smkxodnwbwkdns8369]

@@scratch5191 so extra yet so cringey

[@pugsley201]

@@smkxodnwbwkdns8369yeah, you are lol

[@Gcssdvnkloiutesc]

What aesthetic should celebrity be then? Dark and raw like Live? Celebrity was a bunch of pop songs. The slick sound suited the songs best. Also, what you think are good songs others might hate, and what you think are bad others enjoy. I count about half the album as having great tracks. Overall it’s well done.

[@Albatross_1823]

I get where he's coming from with the importance of drums but Patty is one of my favorite drummers. The drums on CS are lifeless. He traded a human soulful drummer for session drummer from Journey and it sounds like it. No soul. Zero. ZERO.

[@Gcssdvnkloiutesc]

The drums are fantastic. I’ll also decode your difficult and vague cryptic term “soul”. By soul you mean a little raw and unrefined, emotional, and compelling. Celebrity didn’t have songs like Live. Celebrity was a bunch of slick pop songs. To play explosive emotional tremulous drum tracks would be awkward. I’m sure the session drummer could of played the drum tracks on Live even better than Pattie.

[@mr.brenman2132]

Deen Castronovo is a million times better.

[@Albatross_1823]

No actually soul mean soul. Its really a thing. Clearly you dont have one. Patty is why LTT is brilliant. Patty is one of the best rock drummers ever. O suspect the use of substances was effecting her performance on CS. If you think soul is just "raw"? Drums are an extremely emotive instrument and a drummer that has been with you for years in the trenches is going to come through very different than a session drummer from Journey. Soul is a real thing. Just like heart. Your lucky if you can find a drummer that has chops timing and heart/soul. Thats a rare RARE thing. Steven Adler for GNR had soul. His replacement i cant think of his name did not. Use your illusions were much more sterile. You need to re-think everything. You sound like you might be younger. Unfortunately the younger generations and digital look for flawless performances. Perfect in pitch vocals aided by auto tune. Thats NOT fucking rock n roll.

[@MaxOakland]

@@Gcssdvnkloiutesc Albatross is right though. The drums on Celebrity Skin sound weak and bland. Patti is an incredible drummer and deserves way more credit for her skills

[@herrdudesicle]

His statement at the end is bullshit she already proved her self and her chops on the previous record. Live though this is an epic recording. Celebrity Skin is meh with Journeys next drummer sucking the life out of it.

[@Gcssdvnkloiutesc]

Pattie was a drug addict by celebrity and couldn’t cut it

[@mr.brenman2132]

Michael is one of the best producers in the world and has worked with some of the best drummers in the world. I think he knows what he's talking about more then you.

[@MaxOakland]

@@mr.brenman2132 You're clearly obsessed with Michael Beinhorn and he's not even that good

[@mr.brenman2132]

@@MaxOakland He's great.

[@Mono_8080]

​@@MaxOakland I heard your songs and I must say: You'd learn a lot from him if you were humble enough.

[@hellakooked]

1:30 nice scarf trash man

[@aisle_of_view]

"Hey Ringo, we're going to bring in Pete Best to play on Revolver" - Beinhorn

[@iheartmyroku]

Considering how EXPLOSIVE and DYNAMIC Patty's drumming is on LTT, this... doesn't make sense.

[@alandbs329]

MB doesn’t mess around, he makes the best record he can for a band, and gives attention to detail to everything. Patty wasn’t good enough, end of story. Throw in her drug use, and I’m happy Beinhorn is telling the truth. 🙋‍♂️

[@dmvconartists1855]

Grant Young was an amazing drummer on Soul asylum's previous records as well, but like patty, he got the boot from beinhorn. I understand you are obligated to make the best record you can but if you have to fire a member of the band everytime- then maybe you need to reconsider your work flow. Its probably important to keep the band intact in addition to recording the album.

[@smkxodnwbwkdns8369]

Those were different kind of songs, dark moody post punk. Celebrity skin was more slick and pop rock

[@ECW5320]

@@alandbs329 Patty was sober by that point; her issues with him and leaving the band lead to her relapse. The fact that he already had another drummer on call says a lot about him. Both Courtney and Eric should've stuck her guns and fought for Patty.

[@alandbs329]

@@ECW5320 Yep - it means Michael knew a bad drummer when he seen one. He knew she couldn’t deliver a big label album. Courtney and Eric are professionals, the people in patty’s life and patty herself should have prioritised her sobriety if they knew she was heading into this pressure. Patty couldn’t cut it at the big leagues, patty got bumped. It happens. 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@five5x]

Sounds more like this guy just wants a certain sound with drummers and thats it. He's also the guy who made John Frusciante play more metal like during the recording of RHCP Mothers Milk. He kept on fucking with John's sound.

[@Gcssdvnkloiutesc]

He has produced records with a wide variety of drum sounds. He also btw recommended Chad to the peppers when the rest of the band didn’t want to hire him.

[@mr.brenman2132]

@five5x The RHCP's never would have made it without Michael Beinhorn. He also produced The Uplift Mofo Party Plan.

[@foodog777]

Other Beinhorn drummer replacements: Journey drummer Dean Castronova replaced Social Distortion’s Chuck Biscuits in the studio. Soul Asylum drummer Grant Young was replaced mid album by session drummer Sterling Campbell. But he helped audition Chad Smith and loved Matt Cameron, some of the best drummers in the world. There were no ProTools when he did his biggest albums.

[@Reprodestruxion]

Look up Chicago with the producer and the vocalist

[@crypttonite]

is celebrity skin a classic?

[@MaxOakland]

Not quite. The production holds it back. Live Through This is a classic though!

[@crypttonite]

@@MaxOaklandthe pov of the album is not classic, it’s super stoopid chest pounding horsesh!t. From a person who is really an actress, an actress who knows rock n roll is way cooler than the idiot box or movies.

[@Daevision]

He's an anti-artist

[@thomasbreakfast6405]

Miles Davis is a dick for firing people who don't vibe or who play inappropriate notes. Sometimes it's just not the right person for the gig. Most people who listen to records don't understand this ugly fact.

[@t8br00k36]

I find Patty’s drumming on LTT absolutely awesome

[@BradyA1124]

Patty does entirely too much hi-hat notes, and keeping that steady can be difficult for a non athletic drummer

[@MultiMikey81]

Im sure pro tools was in use in 98 or an earlier version Its not like it wasnt linear playing on that album ' could have patched her then got her to practice It makes me wonder what did ms malone do just come in and overdub scratch tracks or programmed? There must have been guide tracks as drums always go first

[@cherrybelle7956]

He's horrible man they all did it tho ,he's scapegoat,patty hit so hard watch it

[@alandbs329]

Horseshit. The drug addict is wrong, the widely respected producer is telling the truth 👋

[@cherrybelle7956]

@@alandbs329 🤣🤣🤣good joke

[@Gcssdvnkloiutesc]

@@cherrybelle7956not a joke. Pattie was addicted to crack.

[@sword-and-shield]

Easy fix, work with producers interested in capturing your art, your way, instead of them creating their own through you. If you prefer the latter, then expect and prepare to be a "player" not an artist.

[@mr.brenman2132]

Really, Superunknown by Soundgarden wasn't Soundgarden's art? Maybe you should look up his discography. If you don't want any input on a record you produce it yourself. If you want to make a record great you bring in someone like Michael Beinhorn. He has a reputation to uphold and he's going to push for the best possible performances. They should thank him for the royalty checks they still probably get.

[@sword-and-shield]

@@mr.brenman2132"Really, Superunknown by Soundgarden wasn't Soundgarden's art?"...Unless you were in the studio you know squat to how much it was or wasn't all "theirs"..."If you don't want any input on a record you produce it yourself"...Wrong you just go to someone looking to serve the artist's intent, not inject their own. Albini even did a great interview about all this years ago. The rest of our post is for all the sell out hacks with no confidence in their own art.

[@mr.brenman2132]

@@sword-and-shield I'll take Bob Ezrin over Steve Albini any day of the week and Ezrin often contributed to song writing. Thank God for producers like Beinhorn, Ezrin, George Martin, Mutt Lange, etc etc. They demand excellence and they get the best out of the people they work with. All music fans owe them a debt of gratitude. And yes, you work with those producers if you want input. You would be a fool not to take it. They know more about music then the people they are working with. An engineer can do what you describe. You pay a producer top dollar to produce. The world would be better off without Comfortably Numb? That song was only on the Wall because of Bob Ezrin's urging.

[@sword-and-shield]

@@mr.brenman2132 What I mentioned about Albini had nothing to do with "Choice" but what was said in an interview expressing what me an my band mates had always felt, long before he said it, as well. Never implied that those style of producers you list, can't do what they are paid to do. Or that, the ones seeking them don't want it. We, my band, have tossed various sent out mixes just because of bs automation added changing the intent of what WE wanted for the tune. No see your wrong again, not everybody is a sell out, not everyone gives a squat what Beinhorn can do to their art to "make them money" or "success" because they don't create their art with that intent. They aren't fools, what they are is true to their own creative expression.

[@mr.brenman2132]

@@sword-and-shield Even though Steve Albini seemed pretty annoyed that they had "Heart Shaped Box" and "All Apologies" remixed. Michael Beinhorn didn't write songs but he advances material from good to great. And if the material is great he makes it greater. That's what a great producer does. None of these bands signed to major labels are trying to rough it. They are trying to make a living. They aren't playing free form jazz. "Sell-out" is one of the most cliché phrases ever. Hilarious you say that considering Beinhorn convinced Chris to write songs for himself and not for Soundgarden fans like he had intended. The result was one of the finest records of the 90's.

[@joesbeard]

Making music shouldn't be that difficult. Where's the joy? Patty deserved better.

[@geet77777]

The dude who " couldn't cut it" then came back after "some air" definitely smoked or drank. Nerves will fuck you. I will say that if you're someone who's in the gym a lot, you could go lift and do a shorter workout just until you get in the zone and you'll be even better and more on point.

[@jasonnn2284]

Why does Michael Beinhorn dress like Bam Margera

[@jejealin]

This guy was the producer in RHCP´s Mother MIlk.....Frusciante hate the way Beinhorn works....and hate the ALbum.

[@dirkdarwin2571]

This guy likes recording music in a formulaic 'by numbers' way, and doesn't understand the role of personality in recordings. That's why Live Through This is a better record

[@Gcssdvnkloiutesc]

What a foolish comment. Sounds like you understand nothing about music yet feel compelled still to be over opinionated.

[@adammartin7007]

Nonsense.

[@wa3543]

The song Celebrity Skin's drumming sounds just like Dave Grohls drumming.

[@Gcssdvnkloiutesc]

They sound nothing alike.

[@MaxOakland]

The production on Celebrity Skin SUCKS. The songs are great, but his production is not. I think Hole could've gone glossy in a better way but he was not it

[@dmvconartists1855]

0:17 He Definitely fucked up Soul Asylum and Hole.. but made good albums for both somehow.. hey idk man.

[@mayorofthenonsense]

Band: "We will stand behind our drummer, even if they are shit. You may not fire them under any circumstances Mr Beinhorn!" Also Band: "This sounds awful. She has to go, but we don't want to get our hands dirty. You have to fire her for us, Mr Beinhorn.."

[@steveonysid1521]

How is that possible she's been playing since she was 11 she can play in her sleep

[@thomasbreakfast6405]

It depends on the kind of record you are trying to make. It ain't DIY territory at this point. Industry is ugly.

[@TurrimAurea]

Heroinum

[@MaxOakland]

@@thomasbreakfast6405 That's hilarious because Live Through This was released on Geffen 2 years after they signed to it. It was never DIY territory. This is a dumb comment

[@tree-huggersans-cur4371]

You have great rock n roll songs with just a tambourine so... and I find POTI awesome not to mention One foot in the grave from Beck. no matter what everyone says about the drumming so... finely tuned is mostly a gage of commercial success, if that.

[@adammartin7007]

Let's not be too tough on this guy, he produced some great records including Superunknown by Soundgarden.

[@mr.brenman2132]

The people that don't know anything about music are being hard on Michael Beinhorn 😂

[@outtosea25]

This guy is smug.

[@PeeWeeHermitGames]

It is beyond infuriating to understand that there are people who are given opportunities to drum in these bands and they fucking suck, like how dude?

[@vidsforsquids]

All this backlash aimed at Beinhorn is just a bit too much. I know one thing.. he’s the guy who I’d want on my team if I was doing just about anything. Authoritative, confident & no BS. That doesn’t make someone a dictator.

[@vsnozberry]

Bull fucking shit. He pushed her and pushed her. And did it mindlessly til she cracked. She was on drugs, sure, but this album should've been made when everyone was well. Not like courtney didn't have her fair share of shit.. blows my mind

[@Albatross_1823]

I wouldnt be surprised if Courtney picked him so he could do what he does. Plus Courtney could blame this guy.

[@ECW5320]

Patty was sober since 94 by the time Celebrity Skin was being produced; Courtney nor Eric having her back, issues with Bonheim, eventual departure lead to her relapse. Thankfully Courtney helped get her clean.

[@Gcssdvnkloiutesc]

How many platinum albums have you produced?