Michael Levin | Evolution, Basal Cognition and Regenerative Medicine

Talk kindly contributed by Michael Levin in SEMF's 2023 Interdisciplinary Summer School:
semf.org.es/school2023/sessio...
TALK ABSTRACT
Each of us has made the remarkable journey from a single cell (a quiescent oocyte) to a complex embodied mind. How do cells, which were once independent organisms, work together to pursue the anatomical and physiological goals that enable form and function to reliably self-assemble? In this talk, I will tell the story of the collective intelligence of cellular swarms that embodies William James' definition of intelligence: same ends by different means. I will describe the amazing competencies of the morphogenetic process that builds bodies and minds, and our discoveries on bioelectricity - the cognitive glue that implements embryogenesis, regeneration, and cancer suppression. I will end with a perspective on how biophysical, informational, and behavioral sciences are coming together to redefine the boundaries of the possible in biomedicine and beyond.
MICHAEL LEVIN
Department of Biology, Tufts University: as.tufts.edu/biology
Tufts University profile: ase.tufts.edu/biology/labs/le...
Wyss Institute profile: wyss.harvard.edu/team/associa...
Wikipedia: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael...)
Google Scholar: scholar.google.com/citations?...
Twitter: / drmichaellevin
LinkedIn: / michael-levin-b0983a6
SEMF NETWORKS
Website: semf.org.es
Twitter: / semf_nexus
LinkedIn: / semf-nexus
Instagram: / semf.nexus
Facebook: / semf.nexus

[@SEMF]

00:00:12 Introduction and overview of the talk 00:02:04 CONTINUUM OF AGENTS 00:05:23 Spectrum of persuadability 00:07:22 Development from “just physics” to mind 00:08:31 We are all collective intelligences 00:11:18 PLASTICITY 00:11:18 Memories survive brain rebuilding and regeneration 00:15:04 Brain dynamically adjusts to different body architectures 00:16:11 MULTI-SCALE COMPETENCY OF AGENTS IN DIVERSE SPACES 00:16:11 Multi-scale cognitive competency architecture 00:16:58 Cognition in diverse spaces 00:21:19 Evolution pivots mechanisms into new spaces 00:22:30 MORPHOGENESIS AS A COLLECTIVE INTELLIGENCE 00:22:30 Alan Turing, intelligence and morphogenesis 00:23:30 Where do anatomies come from? 00:25:02 Biomedical endgame: the anatomical compiler 00:26:41 Genetics information is not enough 00:29:10 Intelligence 00:30:52 Intelligent problem-solving examples in morphospace 00:35:06 IMPLICATIONS FOR EVOLUTION 00:36:00 BIOELECTRICITY 00:36:00 Another example of intelligent problem-solving in morphospace 00:37:35 Closed loop pattern homeostasis 00:38:57 Hardware and software in biological development 00:40:48 Detection and modeling of bioelectric signals 00:42:13 Manipulating bioelectric networks content 00:54:16 Developing quantitative, predictive models 00:54:48 Applications to the future of medicine 00:55:44 TECHNOLOGICAL APPROACH TO MIND EVERYWHERE (TAME) 00:55:51 Goals in collective intelligences 01:00:09 Applications for cancer 01:02:05 Same genomes can build different beings if prompted correctly 01:03:54 TAME overview 01:04:45 Future continuum of agents

[@johndawson6057]

Thank you❤

[@jon...5324]

This lecture was actually mind-blowing. I study neuroscience, and it's very rare that I have this reaction to a new system of knowledge. This is the future of medicine, and biology as a whole.

[@SEMF]

That's what we thought too!

[@SEMF]

This really was an amazing contribution. We are having a Levin-focused event in our community. You can join the live discussions on our community here: semf.org.es/participate/join.html

[@SynchronicityBalance]

This guy is a genius. He is going be so important in history

[@SEMF]

This really was an amazing contribution. We are having a Levin-focused event in our community. You can join the live discussions on our community here: semf.org.es/participate/join.html

[@muscularintelligence]

Yes. This guy seems to be next in the lineage of Darwin, Newton, and Einstein..

[@gaetanomontante5161]

I consider myself a rather informed and intelligent individual (yes! I am holding my nose down very securely) and I have to report that Michael has just blown my mind to smithereens with his presentation. It does not mean at all that I understand more than the most elemental connotations of Language and the simplest Physiological Processes that he talks about. But two things became clear in my mind: One, the level of mental/scientific/epistemological development in a mind like Michael's is breathtaking. Two, the possibilities that a new way to observe biological nature, to ponder on the significance of new discoveries, and finally to make the qualitative jump to bring us to understand ourselves, all of this is absolutely wonderful. I cannot wish anything less than for Michael's own growth unimpeded and that in the end he may impact on all of us (positively, of course). Thank you, Michael.

[@SEMF]

Thanks for the comment!

[@gaetanomontante5161]

@@SEMF 😇

[@imstevemcqueen]

Mind blowing is definitely right

[@SEMF]

@@imstevemcqueen Certainly!

[@SEMF]

This really was an amazing contribution. We are having a Levin-focused event in our community. You can join the live discussions on our community here: semf.org.es/participate/join.html

[@DanielKulas]

What I find most remarkable about Levin’s work is that it takes theory of evolution, as it is currently taught, and turns it on its head. It’s stated that DNA mutates in which phenotypes change which benefits the ability of the organism to reproduce, whose benefit is then passed onto its offspring. If a flat worm can change its phenotype without the introduction of new genetic material, what does that say about the idea that DNA needs to mutate for evolution to take place all? When we do sequence alignment, what exactly is that information showing us in relation to the software driving the organism? This incredible experiment is telling us that the self can construct new solutions to new problems with the information that it currently has to work with. How does problem solving abilities evolve? How does the software emerge when faced with a problem, that produces specific morphologies for the environment in which it lives in? How does the software inside of a sperm and egg combine in such a way that it can produce a viable offspring that can continue the software loop? This is profound stuff!

[@SEMF]

Those are exactly the right questions! Join our community to discuss with other SEMF subscribers: semf.org.es/participate/join.html

[@0ptimal]

Fascinating is an understatement. It all opens a door to a new way to understand life, ourselves. My instinct is to ask what are the limits, where does this lead, what is it telling us. I suspect the answers are beyond what is currently accepted as rational.

[@SEMF]

Very much so! This research invites to dream up quite mind-bending futures!

[@sherrybutts5947]

It leads to the end of the end or what u call limits

[@Mr...D]

excellent!! thank you!

[@SEMF]

We are glad you enjoyed our content!

[@jonathanclark5137]

Absolutely fascinating!!! Michael Levin, you are truly one of the greatest genius minds of our time! Your work will be well recognized in the years and decades to come. The more people exposed to your work, the quicker the paradigm shift in thinking will be, and the faster our technical evolution as a species will be as well.

[@AaBb-pp9bd]

stolen

[@davidhalliday616]

He talks about cells and collectives in organism. I would like to ask him what he thinks about higher scales of collective. Is humanity one collective organism with intelligence and an ability to work toward a singular purpose? How far can you extrapolate? Are there commonalities between animals and plants? Cells can work together in an organism, trees can work with other trees through mycorrhizal relationships… random thoughts

[@SEMF]

Very relevant comments! We have had plant cognition contributions at SEMF before, so the animal-plant analogue seems quite plausible. The collective organism of humanity/civilization is also a very tantalizing thought!

[@rolodexter]

by understanding the principles of cellular intelligence, we can develop new ways to engineer cells to repair damaged tissues and organs. He also suggests that our understanding of bioelectricity could lead to new treatments for cancer and other diseases.

[@SEMF]

Certainly!

[@sherrybutts5947]

Finally someone is standing up to cancer!! Keep going Michael!!! U r amazing

[@RSEFX]

Not only breathtaking, but mind-taking. ...(or maybe more like mind-shaking!). Brilliant overview. Par for the course for Dr. Levin.

[@SEMF]

This really was an amazing contribution. We are having a Levin-focused event in our community. You can join the live discussions on our community here: semf.org.es/participate/join.html

[@rolodexter]

Cells are not simply passive building blocks, but rather active agents that work together to achieve common goals. Bioelectricity is essential for many biological processes, including embryogenesis, regeneration, and cancer suppression. By understanding the principles of cellular intelligence, we can develop new ways to engineer cells to repair damaged tissues and organs. Our understanding of bioelectricity could lead to new treatments for cancer and other diseases.

[@SEMF]

That's right!

[@fennadikketetten1990]

do you think it could help create new treatments for mental illnesses as well?

[@SEMF]

@@fennadikketetten1990 The principles described by Levin here apply to both cognition and anatomy, so the answer is: eventually, yes.

[@sethhavens1574]

mind blowing, thanks for the update mike 👍😮

[@irigima9974]

Another fantastic video. Very informative.

[@SEMF]

This really was an amazing contribution. We are having a Levin-focused event in our community. You can join the live discussions on our community here: semf.org.es/participate/join.html

[@WILLIAMMALO-kv5gz]

About 50 trillion cells all talking to each other directly and or indirectly, each part of a collective intelligence is what we are. I wonder what controls the bio-electricity in morphospace to 3D s[ace and beyond? Thanks to Michael Levin and friends we can begin to ask these questions.

[@SEMF]

Precisely! Those are the questions we begin to be able to pose and potentially answer with these sorts of investigations.

[@ashnur]

What is precise about this? Or is that just a word without meaning.

[@WILLIAMMALO-kv5gz]

Thanks for your reply Ashnur. Few words have no meaning. I don't know to what word you refer. We are all looking for the meaning of life, nature, the universe and existence. Sometimes we have to make it up as we go. Words are often inadequate so we must just do the best we can. I hope this finds you well and as meaningful as possible.

[@WILLIAMMALO-kv5gz]

Thanks for your reply@@SEMF This is the most important and amazing investigation there can be for me at least. I think we are on the verge of finding answers that were searched for down the ages by our ancestors.

[@SEMF]

@@WILLIAMMALO-kv5gz Absolutely, the particularity of this science is that it aspires to explain ourselves as evolved living beings!

[@BR-hi6yt]

I think that learned behaviours are a neural network type of phenomena but not with neuron cells rather folded proteins. Folded protein intelligence would have been the precursor to neuron evolution. So neurons developed an information processing capability from folded proteins doing the same thing but using nano-molecular-shapes in proteins. The original cellular intelligence would have been at the molecular level and still is in cells. Neurons were simply an extension of that capability. Look at large folded protein structures that can perform as machines. So, for example, the position of a molecular structure can store bits of data, be trained etc much like layers of neurons. Levin talks about electrical signals and genetic ideas but swerves away from folded protein capabilities. Googles AlphaFold 2 gives pictures of all the proteins now, so someone should start looking for data structures within them.

[@SEMF]

Definitely! Data structures with higher forms of organizations are appearing at different levels in Biology. Very exciting stuff!

[@margueriteoreilly2168]

Belfast Ireland 🇮🇪 😎

[@rolodexter]

The signals that control gene expression can be controlled by the cell and collective in a variety of ways. For example, the cell can regulate the transcription of genes by binding transcription factors to the DNA. Transcription factors are proteins that bind to specific sequences of DNA and activate or repress the transcription of genes. The cell can also regulate the translation of genes by binding ribosomes to the mRNA and translating the mRNA into proteins. Ribosomes are RNA-protein complexes that translate mRNA into proteins.

[@SEMF]

This really was an amazing contribution. We are having a Levin-focused event in our community. You can join the live discussions on our community here: semf.org.es/participate/join.html

[@kensho123456]

I loved the Borland IDE - seems to be shared by Michael and Lee Cronin (very interesting).

[@SEMF]

That's quite a duo!

[@kensho123456]

@@SEMF They have nothing on Sabine Hossenfelder though 🙂

[@SEMF]

@@kensho123456 Always in time to do so!

[@user-xb4uc1id5c]

This is converging towards "protein computation", nano technology, and more, that Neil Gershenfeld at MIT is researching. The idea that a Turing machine using AND gates, NOR gates, EXOR gates can be made in complex forms all at the same time by folded proteins to functionally compute outcomes. Even modern micro chips are now at the 4 nm level which is in-range of DNA and molecular distances. Why use transistors when you can use chemicals to make processors?

[@SEMF]

This is super fascinating! We will be exploring these topics in coming SEMF podcast episodes and conferences!

[@enriquepageperez1305]

Amazing talk as always Michael - kinda hard to believe the haters are actually complaining about your font use… but I guess there’s just not much else to say against you 😩🤣. Cheers buddy, you’re a legend.

[@SEMF]

The font is indeed the only questionable aspect of this presentation!

[@carlschultz4131]

I like the font, it is simple and soft like human non-cursive writing.

[@SEMF]

@@carlschultz4131 honest thoughts right there!

[@enriquepageperez1305]

In all honesty, I find it completely ok myself. I’m a designer myself but the hate towards comic sans has always seemed to me as just… cliché.

[@SEMF]

@@enriquepageperez1305 At one point it was really overdone, particularly by millennials in their early teens. That seems to be where most of the animosity is coming from.

[@notmyname6881]

On the point about Planaria having no historic selective pressure to have a response to Barium--would they really need to have experience with Barium specifically? Perhaps they do have experience with other scenarios involving general K+ channel blockage or functional disruption.

[@SEMF]

That's right, interesting point. I am sure Michael covers it in his papers.

[@atelier27]

I love his talks. So hopeful. I do wish he would acknowledge the work or Dr Robert O. Becker who wrote the body electric and was doing these types of experiments almost 40 years ago now. All of this limb regeneration via external electrical stimulus in frogs etc was started by Dr. Becker.

[@SEMF]

You could share those references in our online community. You can join here: semf.org.es/participate/join.html

[@atelier27]

@@SEMF Hi, I appreciate the invitation but my dance card is full when it comes to online forums:) I've heard Dr. Levin speak many times now and would just like it known that a lot of his ideas and experiments are not new. Hopefully a few people may be inspired to look up Dr. Becker on their own. Cheers.

[@SEMF]

@@atelier27 Very understandable! And thanks for the references. You will be welcome anytime :)

[@mceajc]

I find this topic and the understanding being built here truly fascinating. I have often wondered what the mechanism(s) is that produces "dominant" and "recessive" gene traits - and it seems to me that it is a conflict and resolution driven by the strength of these signals. Which then prompts the next question: what generates the signals, and how are they controlled by the cell and collective? These are the questions I'm sure you are working on or already have theories to test out. I'm assuming that there is some interaction between the gene and the field which results in the trait expression, but the field is contained in the gene ... how else would the field be inherited from the gamete stage of development? I can't wait to see where this investigation leads!

[@SEMF]

These are exciting times for this kind of research!

[@WILLIAMMALO-kv5gz]

Hi. In the case of planarian worms the head somehow instantly adapted to a new environment so its head no longer exploded when exposed to barium. This was an intelligent response. So what is intelligence? What is information? What is a field? What is a gene? What is a chemical? What is a frogalotal? These questions and more I am asking and re-asking again due to exposure to Micheal Levin and friends. So I am adapting all my viewpoints. With this emerging technology we could create humans with four arms or wings or two heads. Our sense of ridiculousness would not allow this but where does that intrinsic sense come from? Nature? What is "Nature"? If you say "God" then what is your concept of "God"? If you believe in the non existence of "God" what is your concept of that"God" in your mind that does not exist?? What is "Existence"? What is non existence? What is "Reality"? This crosses all the barriers between Philosophy, theology, and any discipline of Science. Including Math. AI and Infinity also. The implications are more than mind boggling, they are imagination boggling...!!! I think we are standing on the brink of a brand new age of human and AI thought, creativity and achievement... i just hope we don't blow ourselves up before we get there. Wishing you and all collectively very well...

[@SEMF]

@@WILLIAMMALO-kv5gz All very interesting questions!

[@legionjames1822]

If only we could KNOW. Yet once again im forced to say I do not. In this era we need to KNOW. I think perhaps half of his conclusions are correct. Which is still astouding.

[@SEMF]

Truly fascinating research indeed!

[@wp9860]

So, memory is a hologram? That is, if you print the holographic information on a piece of glass and then break that glass into pieces, each piece can be used to regenerate the entire hologram.

[@SEMF]

Interesting thought!

[@profbri.02]

This presentation got me to cogitating and pondering, pondering and cogitating...and these are my thoughts thus far: Take the planaria, {please! 😂}, if the tail regenerates a head with the same "memories," does not the head regenerate a tail? And if so, do we then have two seperate planaria, with identical "memories?" So, two identical organisms have been created, with identical "minds," yes? Extrapolating, each organism is the same "person" {person = planarium, herein} as was the single organism before the decapitation, yes? With the same memories and whatnot....interesting. If this were humans, and the brain generates the mind, then each could go their seperate ways, all good. But if the mind, {consciousness}, pre-exists the brain, then only one of the organisms could survive...if one assumes that consciousness is indivisible and non-replicable, {which I think most people do🧐}, then one of our planaria-person friends would have to cease to exist....I wonder who makes that decision...🤔. Peace 🙏 🐲🐲

[@SEMF]

Consciousness makes sense as an emergent subjective experience, that "identical mind" your mention doesn't really happen. What do you mean precisely?

[@williamteach6978]

If the collective stops sharing whatever common spirit or purpose keeping it one, then it will cease to be one spirit/agent. It is purpose that gives us the singularity of agency.

[@SEMF]

How would you define "purpose"?

[@williamteach6978]

Great question... "The reason for being" comes to mind. Let's see, a population of unique individuals shares at least one end goal (aka spirit, purpose), and out of the subsequent behavior a unity naturally emerges from the many. I am an example of that unity, being a man as the whole from my parts ... My guess is that we choose various purposes from the options available, which are contingent upon what has already been paid down or previously chosen... We seek congruence or harmony of soul with our history. I fear fire and find it's effects painful because of prior choices.

[@SEMF]

@@williamteach6978 Intriguing stuff indeed. For direct engagement, you may join our online community using the form at : semf.org.es/participate/join.html

[@dlindeman]

Your statement during the segment you describe the frogolotl is very reminiscent of the work by Donald Williamson, and the idea of sequential chimerism. just because you have a chimera doesn’t mean that it would have the attributes that you might think from the dominant genome. I’m curious if you’re aware of professor Williamsons, work and the controversy.

[@SEMF]

What was the controversy?

[@dlindeman]

@@SEMF Williamson developed a controversial hypothesis proposing the acquisition of larval stages in some marine organisms by hybridisation between two distant animal species (a speciation process referred to as hybridogenesis by Williamson). The fraction of the genome of one of the contributor species would be restricted to lead the developmental program of a newly acquired larva whereas the genome of the other contributor would drive the development of most of the adult anatomical structures. Wiki . He made a sea urchin/tunicate hybrid that was reminded me of the frogolotl . But he was severely criticized . He was very gracious to me in my correspondence with him. I’m sure he would appreciate your work as do I.

[@dlindeman]

Luidia sarsi (Echinodermata) an interesting example of organ systems leading lives of their own (if set free from enslavement) . Placenta animals are treated with such disrespect (joke)

[@SEMF]

@@dlindeman Placenta deserves more respect indeed ;)

[@SEMF]

@@dlindeman Thanks we will keep it in mind for future collaborations.

[@paulreader1777]

I find Michael and the work of his team both fascinating and stimulating. I have one question about the barium experiment the answer to which was perhaps implied but not stated. As planaria reproduce both asexually and sexually, is the barium tolerance exhibited transmitted in sexual reproduction as well as asexual reproduction?

[@SEMF]

Thanks for the question. Perhaps someone in our community could answer it: semf.org.es/participate/join.html

[@johnchase2148]

I accidentally found a sight where Russian scientists were able to regrow teeth with a sequence of thoughts about 10+years ago.Thoughts matter.

[@SEMF]

Where is the published paper?

[@paulhaube]

Isn’t it possible that atoms are made to associate/combine with other atoms as per whatever forces join them, but as soon as they become a group of atoms/molecules (protein, larva up to the largest animal), they have a resonant part that is responsive to commands or orders whenever it comes into contact with other molecules? It seems there is always an animate entity that “lives” in matter, which explains why it transforms into something else once its “energy reserve or life key” is depleted or weak to defend or protect its integrity.

[@SEMF]

What kind of interaction would mediate such a mechanism?

[@paulhaube]

By mediation, we are suggesting a 3rd component involved, orchestrating or causing the interaction between 2 bodies? A 3rd component distinct from or common to or common in? My initial question rests on the assumption that the interaction is mechanized within matter (atom) itself (ie, encoded through physical/environmental abilities/limitations, harmonized/co-resonant components). Despite this mechanized process of interaction within matter, living bodies (humans, fauna and flora) occur “naturally” through a different ordering force. I have way too many questions as a non-scientific individual. Thank you for the consideration. Be well.

[@SEMF]

@@paulhaube Thanks for sharing your thoughts!

[@mycount64]

Regeneration of tissue and limbs to some extent in human youth some animals their entire life. All life grows new parts at some point. That it happens at the atomic level is no surprise.

[@SEMF]

In what sense does it happen at the atomic level?

[@legionjames1822]

Dont starfish regrow after cutting into lots of pieces as well.

[@SEMF]

Yes, another example of the same phenomenon!

[@margueriteoreilly2168]

Zebra fish 🐟 are my favourite Like ☯️ and ☯️ Both have their jobs to do. Belfast Ireland 🇮🇪 😎

[@margueriteoreilly2168]

Wow 48 mins in Crazy 🤪 😜 but can it be done in babies in the womb

[@Gigaloader]

Looking at this, I would even take it a step further and even question the whole concept of cells and DNA. Seems like cells itself are just the result of an overall electrical pattern. That this can be done locally just indicates that. Why not expand this idea to the whole organism starting with the cell itself at pre-embryo state.

[@SEMF]

This really was an amazing contribution. We are having a Levin-focused event in our community. You can join the live discussions on our community here: semf.org.es/participate/join.html

[@guillermobrand8458]

The ability to pursue goals that could be called “expectations” experienced a considerable “evolutionary leap” when the brain emerged, about 550 million years ago. However, such an evolutionary leap was insignificant if we compare it with the one that took place some two hundred thousand years ago, when our ancestors accessed Reason. We owe it to the action of the Being, that entity whose action we usually call “conscious action.” Evolution took billions of years to generate “social entities”, then multicellular organisms emerged. In turn, evolution tends to replicate its “successful models”, the grouping of individuals being one of them. It is important to consider that just as multicellular organisms are “social entities”, so is a corporation, a city or a country. Just as a cell in our body is at the service of the body, and “does not hesitate” to give his life for the body of which he is a part, a “normal citizen” is willing to give his life for his country.

[@ashnur]

On a hardware level its true we don't have this level of sophistication, but in software we absolutely have reached it. Just because we use it for BS, doesn't mean it's not complex.

[@SEMF]

What do you mean by "BS"?

[@ashnur]

As a professional software engineer with 20+ years of experience, I believe we use our software capabilities for bull shit. Mostly to bullshit ourselves, but often each other. If you heard about this book, Bullshit Work, it describes a part of it.

[@RogueElement.]

​@@SEMFbull shit😮‍💨😭

[@SEMF]

Got it ;)@@RogueElement.

[@ashnur]

I think assuming a continuum because we can put connections between things is an intellectual and ideological mistake, aka platonism. You start from a good point, the apparent discretenes of the natural world, but the solution is not the continuum, which is actually a product of our mind, but spontaneous ordering and then, patterns that build on stable spontaneous order can increase their momentum in phase space. Doesn't mean there is a continuum.

[@SEMF]

A common view is that the continuum is in the model, not reality "per se". The concept of continuum has proven extremely powerful historically, perhaps it should remain as such.

[@ashnur]

@@SEMFI really hope not, since it causes all kinds of issues in everyday life that we insist on it. From math to everything else. It doesn't actually match up with our immediate sensory experience if you introspect and not rely on learned knowledge.

[@SEMF]

@@ashnurThe history of modern science shows the power of the concept of the continuum, even when you don't assign ontic value to it.

[@ashnur]

I think this is tautological, so I can disregard it:)@@SEMF I am not saying there is no meaning, no value, no use. I am saying with all that, there is also things we could avoid without losing any of the use and value and meaning.

[@SEMF]

@@ashnur What is to be avoided in the use of the concept of continuum?

[@ronanclark2129]

Imagine a seed that grows a little hut

[@SEMF]

That's the idea!

[@jack_separo]

May be I miss something or just lost, where's the software come from?

[@SEMF]

What software?

[@jack_separo]

His explanation around minute 39.

[@SEMF]

@@jack_separo That's the analogy: hardware=body structure, software=bioelectricity pattern on top.

[@jack_separo]

@@SEMF , I know it is an analogy, the question is where's it come from if not from the genes, and thw genes is the hardware. It is confusing, or may be not, if you can help me how he model the interaction of both.

[@SEMF]

@@jack_separo The idea seems to be that the pattern of bioelectricity has enough interactive structure that it can act as a computational substrate.

[@nothingisgiven8364]

@51:25

[@SEMF]

Really fascinating moment in the talk indeed!

[@davidwilkie9551]

First Principle, elemental e-Pi-i Function of Singularity-point Fission-Holographic FUSION, a Bio-logical Recursion to metastable Mean according to relative-timing-> emitter-receiver, superimposed orthogonal-normal parallel log-antilog axial-tangential AM-FM alignment, of reciprocation-recirculation inclusion-exclusion timing-phase interference.., the con-sequence of 0-1-2-ness chemical circuits in modular composition of prime-cofactor shell-horizons holography-quantization. Nested Networks of superimposed pulsed-events => a self-defining "living" coherence-cohesion Universe. From which beginning understanding the teaching-learning of WYSIWYG QM-TIME resonance floating Singularity-point Bose-Einsteinian Condensation is deduced. (Definitely biting off more than I can chew to absorb this degree of sophistication)

[@radeum1010]

What kind of book could Mary Shelley write today if she was alive? Only today it won't be a book....

[@SEMF]

Probably a podcast series...

[@S.G.Wallner]

I'm not convinced living organisms need to STORE memories.

[@SEMF]

How would you explain learning and advanced cognition without memory?

[@S.G.Wallner]

@@SEMF I assume you mean an explanation of learning without memory. My confirmation of memory is in line with Bergson, Whitehead, and Sheldrake. These theories do not require MEMORY STORAGE specifically. There is remembering, recollecting and a presence of the past, which can bring about learning and adaptation. What evidence convinces you memories are stored in neural tissue?

[@S.G.Wallner]

@@SEMF I find that information theoretic frameworks of mind very problematic. The encoding/decoding paradigm has some major issues that aren't resolved by strong evidence.

[@SEMF]

@@S.G.Wallner Digital models of the mind (where information is stored like in hard drives) are clearly not aligned with evidence but informational descriptions need not be digital. Information being kept as part of the state of the physical system seems to be the case, Levin's work further confirms this perspective.

[@S.G.Wallner]

@@SEMF brilliant! I definitely agree with your statement against digital storage. I also am willing to accept Levin's line of thinking and the evidence. It is very much related to Bergson's concept of memory, such as a living, evolving, context or pattern of habit. I think using the term memory is misleading for most, and misappropriated by most. The concept memory has lost relevant meaning in neutral systems because of the conflation of digital, or computer like memory. I think a new terminology is needed even for Levin's work. And I'm still not absolutely sure about any real storage of memory, digital or otherwise. Again, storage is problematic. I know this is semantic, but it is important to me. Ugh, frustrating to get a point across in the comments. I'd love to talk it out with you. From being a huge fan of your channel, I know we are in alignment in many ways. I'd love to hear your position more completely. Thanks for engaging with my comment. I'm happy to continue.

[@anthonylawrence5842]

This could amplify an explanation of the origin of form and cellular communication? kzbin.info/www/bejne/jJjHqoueadJsg8Usi=508EAWqV_UtNrFab

[@ekszentrik]

Hm, "[an anatomical computer] would mean birth defects, etc. could be resolved". I am sure Michael has already thought a bit farther than this statement (of course the following tangent wasn't viable for this talk), but of course, a free programmability of human cells would also imply an evolutionarily instant -- like by the snip of a finger -- dissolution of the human form. The human mind -- ever desiring; the _homo sapiens_ body; and -- the novel element -- biotechnological possibility, is a deeply meta-stable three-body system. "Mind" itself is already basically non-existent in the universe. Imagine how novel, from the perspective considering the history of the universe, the dynamic within nature is that mind can freely reconstitute its substratum. _(It's a phase shift of the universe. This is because the separation between domain and image (codomain) has been blasted apart, i.e. it can be understood as some morphism, that now incestuously refers back to itself, warping itself. The image of an Ouroboros is quite fitting: the head end "mind" -- devouring its material [i.e. substratum] basis, to generate more Ouroboros body that has now been cast according to the idea of the "mind"-facet of the snake. Eventually, no part of the snake has not been redefined according to the designs of the snake's mind. Ever and ever ...)_ **Anyway:** The human species will end within a short time span of such an invention; and, from a non-_h. sapiens_-chauvinist, but rather Terran (or even biological) chauvinist perspective, I don't know if I would welcome such a denouement to the story of Earth life, also. Despite the post-human successor, naturally, also being a "child of Earth" (I really don't care for this kind of idealistic romanticism. I am more a dour/melancholy/pathos-type romantic). Of course, Michael and I both believe the mind is an expression of the body's configuration, so the possible "escape route" that the human mind at least is preserved, yeah. That idea is just a safety blanket.

[@TheFirstSky]

"U can build eyes anywhere in fact..." 😂 holy cow....

[@SEMF]

Truly a shocking part of the talk!

[@skyhavender]

I am just currious. Can we stop aging with all this?? I remember that on a ted talk he said that is was possible to do if he and his team could crack the code. I am very afriad of death you see... 😂

[@SEMF]

That's a very real possibility. The fear of death will not disappear though...

[@charlesbrightman4237]

CONSIDER THE FOLLOWING: "IF" my gravity test for my theory of everything idea shows what I believe it will show, that what is called 'gravity' is a part of the currently recognized 'em' photon, 'gravity' acting 90 degrees to the 'em' modalities, which of course act 90 degrees to each other, "THEN" the pulsating, swirling 'gem' photon would be the energy unit of this universe that makes up space, time, numbers and everything else in existence, including you, me, our consciousness, memories and thoughts. SPACE and TIME: 'Space' is energy itself. Wherever space is, energy is. Wherever energy is, space is. They are one and the same thing. And for me, the 'gem' photon is the energy unit of this universe that makes up everything in existence in this universe. 'Space' is most probably energy itself in the form of gravitational fields, electrical fields and magnetic fields, varying possibly only in energy modality, energy density (pressure) and energy frequency (temperature). 'Time' is the flow of energy. 'Time' (flow of energy) cannot exist unless 'space' (energy itself) exists. And 'space' (energy itself) that does not flow (no flow of time / energy) is basically useless. An entity cannot even think a thought without a flow of energy. If all the energy in the universe stopped flowing, wouldn't we say that 'time stood still'? Time itself would still exist, it would just not be flowing, (basically 'time' stopped). But then also, how space and time are linked in what is called 'space time', (energy and it's flow). * And everything in existence currently appears to be eternally existent energy interacting with itself. There is truly only 1 single 'eternal day', the day of eternally existent ever flowing energy.

[@charlesbrightman4237]

GRAVITY: WARNING: (CONTAINS EXISTENTIAL MATTERS): Here is the test for the 'gravity' portion of my TOE idea. I do not have the necessary resources to do the test but maybe you or someone else reading this does, will do the test, then tell the world what is found out either way. a. Imagine a 12 hour clock. b. Put a magnetic field across from the 3 to 9 o'clock positions. c. Put an electric field across from the 6 to 12 o'clock positions. (The magnetic field and electric field would be 90 degrees to each other and should be polarized so as to complement each other.) d. Direct a high powered laser through the center of the clock at 90 degrees to the em fields. e. Do this with the em fields on and off. (The em fields could be varied in size, strength, density and depth. The intent would be to energy frequency match the laser and em fields for optimal results, cancelling out the em modalities of the laser, thereby leaving behind the gravity modality.) f. Look for any gravitational / anti-gravitational effects. (Including the utilization of ferro cells so as to be able to actually see the energy field movements.) (And note: if done right, it's possible a mini gravitational black hole might form. Be ready for it. In addition, it's possible a neutrino might be formed before the black hole stage, the neutrino being a substance with a very high gravitational modality with very low 'em' modalities.) (An alternative to the above would be to direct 3 high powered lasers, or a single high powered laser split into 3 beams, each adjustable to achieve the above set up, all focused upon a single point in space. Maybe I could concentrate the Sun's 'em' into a high powered laser. Might even work with the correct set up breaking the Sun's 'em' down into single 'em' energy frequencies acting like a single energy frequency laser. A high energy laser powered by the Sun. Cool, or actually pretty hot. More than one way to build a laser.) 'If' effects are noted, 'then' further research could be done. 'If' effects are not noted, 'then' my latest TOE idea is wrong. But still, we would know what 'gravity' was not, which is still something in the scientific world. (But hey, might even still get a Sun powered laser, which of course could even be utliized in outer space for various agendas.). This test can speak for itself. It will either be true, partly true, or not true at all. It will either show what gravity truly is, might be, or is not. Science still wins either way and moves forward. * And note: Whether my gravity test or another's, a gravitational black hole would have to be formed to prove the concept as being really true. A gravitational black hole that 'if' self fed itself, could literally wipe out this Earth and all on it, possibly this solar system, possibly put a black hole in this section of our galaxy, and potentially even causing a ripple effect in this galaxy and surrounding universe. But hey, if it does, no worries. Nobody would be left to prosecute those who did so. (Possibly famous last words: "Hey, it worked. Ooooppppssss.................) But as NASA has already proven that low gravity conditions over a prolonged period of time is harmful to the human species, and large rotating space ships won't really work for space bases on planets and moons, those space bases probably being needed somewhere along the way out of this solar system and galaxy, we need to figure out what gravity truly is and see if we can generate artificial gravity so as to have smaller space ships and proper gravity conditions for space bases on planets and moons. Otherwise, at least all human life will most probably die and go extinct one day. Currently, no exceptions. * Added note: Just trying to save at least 1 single species from this Earth to exist beyond this Earth so that life itself from this Earth has continued meaning and purpose to. Gives me something to do while I exist, otherwise, what is it all and everything for? Even if my TOE idea were correct, but if it did not help species survive beyond this Earth, what good would it ultimately be? So, are you feeling lucky? Doing nothing and at least the entire human species eventually dies and goes extinct with a high degree of certainty. Doing a gravity test, (mine and/or another's), and there is at least a slim chance of literally wiping out this entire Earth and all on it, and possibly more. Do you and other's truly want me to prove my TOE idea as being really true? But also: Questions: Are at least some black holes in this universe due to a species who were trying to discern what 'gravity' truly was, came up with a test to do so, were successful, but the black hole generated (to prove what gravity truly was) self fed itself and wiped them and at least their entire planet out? What species might have existed where a black hole now resides? (Since all of life itself is ultimately meaningless in the grand of scheme of things anyway, do the gravity test and see what occurs?) * Added note: Suggestion: 'IF' society did not want to do the gravity test, one suggestion might be to at least create a model as if it were true, then see how that model matches with observations and predictions. It might be possible to discern the theory of everything without actually generating a gravitational black hole (which would definitely prove the TOE idea as being really true).

[@user-xb4uc1id5c]

Poppycock - see a doctor

[@Lamp.Cooloutski]

Hurry Levin lab. Hurry.

[@SEMF]

Hurry for what specifically?

[@itmomotitimo]

"The world needs you I guess" ... I guess? Incredible work!!!!

[@bradsillasen1972]

@@SEMFI assume regenerative medicine as in new legs, repaired spinal chords, reversion of blindness, and correction of any of a bazillion catastrophic diseases. I hope one day the fruits of this work will bring a better life to vast numbers of people. Hopefully they will remember Dr. Levin et al.

[@SEMF]

Indeed!@@itmomotitimo

[@SEMF]

Those are very worthy goals@@bradsillasen1972!

[@elizabethwinsor5140]

Surveillance: Xenobots could be engineered to have light-sensitive receptors or other sensors, allowing them to detect specific chemicals, radiation, or even enemy movements. These xenobots could be deployed in large numbers to gather intelligence in enemy territories without being easily detected. Targeted Attacks: Xenobots could be designed to seek out and destroy specific targets, such as enemy personnel, infrastructure, or equipment. They might be programmed to carry toxins, explosives, or other harmful payloads, delivering them directly to the target. Infiltration: Xenobots could be used for covert operations by infiltrating enemy facilities or systems. Due to their small size and potential to be genetically engineered for camouflage, they could penetrate secure locations without raising suspicion. Biological Warfare: In a more sinister scenario, xenobots could be weaponized for biological warfare purposes. They could be designed to carry and release pathogens or toxins, causing widespread harm to enemy populations or ecosystems. Terrain Manipulation: Xenobots could be programmed to modify the terrain to hinder enemy movement or fortify defensive positions. For example, they could be engineered to construct barriers or dig trenches. Communication Networks: Xenobots could be used to establish secure communication networks in hostile environments where traditional methods are impractical or compromised. By forming swarms or networks, they could relay information between military units or command centers. It's important to note that the deployment of xenobots in warfare raises significant ethical, legal, and safety concerns. The development of autonomous, self-replicating living organisms for military purposes could have unpredictable consequences, including unintended harm to civilians or ecosystems, escalation of conflicts, and the erosion of moral boundaries. As such, any potential military applications of xenobots would require careful regulation, oversight, and consideration of the broader societal implications. 2 / 2

[@SEMF]

Thanks for the very thoughtful comment, those are all very important considerations. Perhaps you would like to share them in our online community and continue with discussions there? You can join for free simply following this link: semf.org.es/participate/join.html

[@elizabethwinsor5140]

The potential for positive uses for Michael Levin's work is vast , but the negative is also true ....the funding available for one side is tiny compared to the other .... unfortunately for us all.

[@SEMF]

@@elizabethwinsor5140 What negative uses do you see?

[@blueresonantmonkey3188]

can debrided deep tissue be rebuilt and innervated that was cut out of a pilonidial cyst ?? i need a new butt cheek

[@SEMF]

The possibilities are endless it seems!

[@blueresonantmonkey3188]

@SEMF I'm sure it would cost a pretty penny though .....

[@blueresonantmonkey3188]

You are like a one man Army lol 😆 💜 😂 🤣 😅

[@the_eternal_student]

Our task is to use the knowledge of the indigenous plants and animals without breaking down the distinction between human and non-human. We must transform into indigenous animals and back into humans again, we must rescusitate ourselves with plant machinery.

[@SEMF]

What is your suggestion exactly here?

[@the_eternal_student]

Do not throw away the human characteristics, do not transplant characteristics across continents. Use science to manage the limitations of indigenous sovereignty.@@SEMF

[@SEMF]

@@the_eternal_student Why are continents the relevant lines that shouldn't be crossed? Seems arbitrary that geography dictates human activity when humans have transcended many evolved barriers.

[@the_eternal_student]

@@SEMF Let us know if you find any Angle or West German scientists working on the same on problems as Michael, particularly if they are seeking to develop the human tribes from self -destruction.

[@SEMF]

@@the_eternal_student Can you clarify your comment?

[@corineskipper1919]

Sounds to me like memory is stored in the blood..... The DNA.

[@SEMF]

What would be the mechanism in that case?

[@corineskipper1919]

@@SEMF Our Entire self I would imagine. The Whole. Id say it's every fibre of our being hence u can cut the planera in a million peices and all still develop the whole planera perfectly or the axolotl regenerating everything including half their brain. . (I personally own 6 axolotls for 7 yrs and have bred hundreds) I've followed u Alison Mcdowell and others for years and years.... to learn the hows and the whys. I hope u have a wonderful day.

[@SEMF]

@@corineskipper1919 Axolotls are so cute! How was that experience? Maybe you would like to share it with the SEMF community? You can join here for free in a couple of steps: semf.org.es/participate/join.html

[@corineskipper1919]

@@SEMF Thanks so much for the invite. I joined. Ur greatly appreciated.

[@SEMF]

@@corineskipper1919 Great to hear!

[@TheNaturalLawInstitute]

Nit: Intelligence requires prediction. None of these systems can predict. They operate by trial and error, making use of the information that is provided by the hierarchy of components, assemblies, ensembles at all scales. So instead these systems do not calculate, they only compute trial and error, and capture and record in their organization a record of successes that provided an advantage. I"m not a fan of using false analogies in the sciences, unless to provide a pathway to a less intuitive terminology. It's where pop pseudoscience and nonsense comes from. So no, intelligence requires memory, prediction, and choice. Given memory, prediction, and choice, intelligence transcends mere reaction, which is typically automatic and unthinking, driven by innate or conditioned responses. Instead, intelligence embodies the capacity to learn from the past, anticipate the future, and make decisions that reflect an understanding of the broader context and one's objectives within it. This definition of intelligence emphasizes its role in enabling adaptive, goal-directed behavior. It is the mechanism by which beings navigate the world not just based on what has happened to them, but on what they envision could happen and how they decide to influence those outcomes. Intelligence, therefore, is not merely about responding to the environment but about understanding, anticipating, and shaping it through informed choices.

[@SEMF]

This is a very thoughtful comment! We would welcome such contributions in our community. You can join simply by following this link: semf.org.es/participate/join.html

[@margueriteoreilly2168]

Micheal 39 mins in I know what zebra fish 🐟 think 🤔 Like Batman.....one thinks 🍽 🍽 🍽 🍽 🍽 Batman The other thinks Oh No....I got to clean the house 🏠 Zebra 🐟 🐠 🎣 🐡 🍥 🐟 🐠 🎣 🐡 aren't that different to Humans They are Our Bacteria.. Do Women Zebra fish 🐟 think different Who knows......they certainly come in pairs Isn't Science Far Out. Belfast Ireland 🇮🇪 😎

[@KNemo1999]

Wow, God is amazing! Keep up the incredible work.

[@SEMF]

What does God have to do with any of Michael Levin's work?

[@ashnur]

the comic sans is a joke?

[@SEMF]

Could be?

[@felixthefoxMEXICO]

comic sans??? why?

[@susanmcdonald9088]

Gosh, first few minutes into the lecture, I am dismayed, the Adam story, really? With the female created as some after-thought, as a rib-piece, that's how you begin? ... Knowing what we do about mitochondrial DNA & function for all life on this planet, coming from the female of the species, the most ancient, FEMALE? You start with a story of Adam? A story that needs to go away, a fool's tale of ongoing male authority & superiority! That supports an entire state, theocracy, and ongoing problem all over the world! Really? A teleological view of "purpose" that led us down wrong pathways, for millenia, you start there, Mr. Levine? Perhaps scientifically & medically, a better story to begin, the Dutch Leewenhoak who turned his lenses to the world of the small & unseen, or medically, the physicians who refused to believe in "germs", or washing their hands going from cadavers to child births, killing thousands of women in hospitals while wiping out the midwives to protect their newfound professions... Yet you start with a patriarchal god-story, a creation lie, a hubristic bunch of nonsense, to prove your point? Philosophy began in ancient Greece, real philosophy. Teleological thinking kept the Greek physician Galen going for 1200 years in Europe, unfortunately! I'll try to finish this lecture, but doubt I can; it starts with nonsense, how could it possibly not end similarly! ($$$$)

[@SEMF]

What's the alternative?

[@ashnur]

Like evolution is blatantly not about smooth changes, not even sure why you say this with a picture representing evolution.

[@Wypipo]

Slow down and talk like you love your audience. Talk like you face-timed your friend or mom. And FFS stop using comic sans. These things are important and you are brilliant. Trust yourself. Make it beautiful, make it pleasant, make it easy, reward those who trust you with their time and don’t startle those who don’t know if they should.

[@0ptimal]

Superficial concerns.

[@RogueElement.]

​@@0ptimal💯💯. But the world is superficial 🥹

[@Littleprinceleon]

0.75 speed. Period. Some of the research shown is almost ten years old. There are older sources discussing them in more detail. And you can rewind as many times as you need. Stop complaining please, if can't contribute...