MiG-21 Fishbed vs F-4 Phantom Fox-2 Fight! DCS

In this video Sash flies the F-4 Phantom and I fly the MiG-21 and we do a fox-2 dogfight. Watch to see who wins!
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[@maxhardover9772]

"You meet a better class of pilot in the vertical" - Randy "Duke" Cunningham

[@luapago]

That Mig 21's paint job is sick!

[@fox3phoenix811]

Thanks!

[@lars9966]

i noticed the f4 loves the vertical

[@fox3phoenix811]

Yes it does!

[@gungriffen]

The Navy found in Nam do not try to turn fight the Migs. Go vertical till your about to stall and loop over and dive on the Migs. They can't follow the climb. He (and most) are using it wrong.

[@fox3phoenix811]

This tactic would work perfectly in a gun fight but with fox-2s they will lock on to that hot exhaust! Still verticle is what i would have tried!

[@gungriffen]

@@fox3phoenix811 Still best option. If the mig loses energy in the climb the F4 gets to choose the engagement. He needs to start the climb before missile range, on the onset of a merge, or trust his flares. Also, if a mig loses enough energy snd can't engage their reflex is get speed back and disengage. Perfect for the Phantom. It's coming out of a dive at the speed of sound and the mig won't be able to out run it.

[@hummingbird9149]

That goes for the early hard wing F4s, not the F4E which is a different beast with its bigger slat equipped wing courtesy of the Agile Eagle program, which will outturn the MiG21. It just requires the pilot respecting the best maneuvering speeds and trusts his aircraft. Worst thing to do is reversals like you saw in the video. In short pick a turn direction, stick with it, and just start reeling in that Fishbed.

[@fox3phoenix811]

True!

[@limeacid]

R-13 behave strangely on long-distance launches

[@smacman68]

I have been testing the F4 against all the other fighters in DCS. Against period correct aircraft like the MiG 21 it is about a 50/50 proposition. Against newer gen 4 and higher it is totally outclassed. A Viper with AMRAAM C’s is hopeless. The Hornet, the MiG 29, Flanker…I was dead before I knew there where it came from. As a bomb truck it really shines. Getting the warheads on foreheads is a little tricky, but doable. And the tv bombs are my favorite so far. We’ll see as time progresses how it shapes up

[@ThatSpicyOreo]

Im not so sure about the mig 21 , if you merge and pull into the vertical you have some good luck , ive killed 3 mig 29s that way .But yeah u have to use tactics because if not you get out turned lol

[@WilliamStewart1]

Does it have any sead capabilities?

[@fox3phoenix811]

Cant wait till i can fly the F4 again and put up some videos of those fights!

[@fox3phoenix811]

F4s were the original wild weasels! So yes!

[@HRP_Pixy]

It does, UP to 4 agm45​@@WilliamStewart1

[@dougroberts3840]

You want a fun challenge to do? Do this, 1 vs. 1 gun fight only, one pilot flies the F-86, the other pilot flies the Mig-15, who ever gets shot down, moves up one aircraft, example, if Mig-15 gets shot down, then the Mig pilot gets to move up one plane, to the next more advanced aircraft, like the Mig-19, while the F-86 pilot has to stay fighting with the F-86, so it becomes F-86 vs. Mig-19, if the Mig pilot gets shot down again, he gets to move up to the Mig-21, so it becomes F-86 vs. Mig-21, if F-86 pilot gets shot down then he moves up to like the F-5E, so it becomes F-5E vs. Mig-21, and so on. I realize that one person could just let the other shoot him down and get the next more advanced plane, but the challenge comes when your in like the F-86 and having to fight the Mig-19, Mig-21, or any other more advanced fighter.

[@fox3phoenix811]

That is a good idea! That being said we may start with Gen 2 fighters. Fighting a F-86 or a MiG-15 in Gen 2 fighters with guns only is nearly impossible due to the fact that the F-86 and MiG-15 out turn gen 2 planes so much. Usually I can make the gen 2 planes run out of fuel before they can kill me. Still I like the concept though!

[@dougroberts3840]

@@fox3phoenix811 That's cool.

[@lexikdark3392]

I deleted my SavedGames/DCS folder and Repaired DCS afterwards. helped me with the F-4E a Ton. no joke. it deleted any of the mods in there aswell ofc. but the F-4E doesn't really like most mod-Aircraft atm.

[@fox3phoenix811]

Ill try that and see if it helps! Thank you!

[@hopenewhouse2680]

Since you have been getting use to the F-4 trying doing a Pardo''s Push in one.

[@fox3phoenix811]

Hahaha I'm pretty sure DCS is not set up for that and you just go boom!!

[@lilletrille8998]

Nice video! I only know that a USAF Vietnam pilot said that the Mig 21 turns better than the F4 up high, while the F4 is the better turn fighter at low altitude. But I think I would go up at the merge if I were the F4 pilot.

[@fox3phoenix811]

Yep I agree. When I get my computer back I'll get back in the F-4 and try it!

[@lilletrille8998]

​@@fox3phoenix811 My American friend and I had trouble fighting the F5E while flying the F4E (did not matter which one of us who was flying the F4...then we figured out you needed to stay at around M 0.7-0.8 and go two circle against the F5E, climbing did not always work as well as we thought it would at least until you got up to around 30 000 feet. It feels a little weird, but that is what we found anyway. Of course if you are carrying Aim7s you can speeed up and extend and turn around and try to get a fox1 shot off before another merge. I would love to see how you would fight in the F4! Hope you get your computer back soon! S!

[@craig8724]

That R-13M is a much better missile than the 9B. If you had the R-3S it would be more comparable. R-13M was used in the late 70s -80s. And in DCS it is far superior than the 9B.

[@fox3phoenix811]

Fair enough. I wonder if its more comparable to the 9J

[@Blu0tuth0ninja]

The f-4 pilot was not fighting to its strengths at all.

[@robertkalinic335]

Flying the bad guy... Ominous music... Man you just probably saved some village somewhere in Vietnam by shooting down that f4.

[@fox3phoenix811]

Hahaha yep!

[@christopherchartier3017]

Hey, it could be the 6 day war if he was the ‘bad guy’ in the MiG!

[@robertkalinic335]

@@christopherchartier3017 You mean he would fight against the people with long history of colonialism and genocide. Goddamn arabs not behaving like some terrorist stereotype.

[@christopherchartier3017]

@@robertkalinic335 We’re not turning this into an argument

[@dirkellis9212]

Operation bolo?

[@fox3phoenix811]

I may have to try to recreate that someday. I just need to get my computer back from the shop so i can fly the F4!

[@dirkellis9212]

@fox3phoenix811 6 day war? Yom Kippur? You have access to mirage 2000, 3000, and 5000? How about the nesher and kfir?

[@fox3phoenix811]

Out of all of them we only have acess to the mirage 2000. Based on if i can get my computer fixed i may be learning that plane next.

[@dirkellis9212]

@fox3phoenix811 it's all good Brutha

[@aztec0112]

What's glaringly clear is how desperately the F-4 sucks! I'm amazed they lasted a week in the SEA.

[@fox3phoenix811]

Well keep in mind this was a 1v1 fox-2 fight. In real life the F4 pilots were usually way better trained, out numbered the enemy, and started from beyond visual range where the F4 was superior. F4s always did have to worry about the Mig-21 though cause it was an agile speedy fighter that could knock it out of the sky if not careful.

[@fox3phoenix811]

Exactly!

[@lilletrille8998]

The F4E should be able to out turn the Mig 21 at low and medium altitude, but it takes a while for a guy to get used to a new airplane. When we started flying the F-16C, there were 3 of us doing a two circle on the Nevada map and I managed to go around the whole circle and catch up to both of the other guys, then pass them and continue to out rate them....how? Well, I kept my speed up at around 420-430 kts, if the speed started to drop bellow 400 kts, I eased off the turn until the speed went back up. They were amazed and I told them what I was doing (they were just pulling like crazy and getting slow), and after that I have never been able to out rate them like that again. So it is all about how you fly your airplane. But a new guy in a F4E and a veteran like Fox3 in his Mig21 and guess who wins...)