Motorcycle Geometry | EXPLAINED

[@gsalien2292]

Thank you for this information! Now when I crash my bike due to lack of skills, I can just tell everyone who witnessed it that I made incorrect mechanical adjustments on the bike that resulted in poor geometry conditions!!!

[@schnecks2180]

Nah dude, there must be something wrong with the tires..... :-)

[@Vain06]

Thanks for the reveal :P

[@Walkeranz]

So lack of mechanical skills as well as riding skills...

[@staninjapan07]

Sweet excuse making skills!

[@gabrieljohannson6777]

LOL

[@LyRaLex]

Anti-Squat sounds quite slavphobic.

[@-fluffylik3scoff33-5]

Boris and Anatoli want to know your location.

[@vichearidhuth4556]

They should have bough soviet motorcycle like Урал: Ural (basically a copy of bmw engine)

[@Spetsop]

As a Slav... that makes me sad 🙁... 😂

[@georgisgarage]

ahaahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahhaah as a slav....i love this :D

[@MeisVlk]

Please change this term, it offends me and my culture.

[@excaliburgt4537]

I've been following you for a while. Your quality has been getting better and better!!

[@H3ntaig33K]

The rider is just an onboard engineer.

[@juanete838]

Believe me. As an engineer I cant onboard like the pilots on the video, lol.

[@GeorgeSPAMTindle]

@@juanete838 I bet that you can tie your shoe laces though. I too am an engineer and have worked in motor sports, some of the best test riders and drivers are just useless at all other aspects of life. Good engineers do not make good test riders, this is because they can tell that things are going wrong before most other people would notice. One manager at a car manufacturer in Britain once said to me that it is the job of the engineers to break the vehicle, and it is the driver's job to crash it, adding that it is easier to replace a test rider than it is to replace a good engineer. You will only ever find the limits by going beyond them, and that can hurt, or worse.

[@arthurn8952]

This video was for tertiary students. I needed something for primary kids to understand all this

[@bikehubjapan]

I had to stop half way because my head started hurting. Will watch again tomorrow ;)

[@LTLT900]

Me too.

[@kristiangameplay6534]

A loot of custom builders especially in USA must immediately watch this video, because some custom bikes are unrideable. Nice educational video

[@_t3dward]

fantastic video. It's a RSV though, not a RSV4 ;)

[@MrIkbenbasoe]

Was looking for this comment! I own a V-twin RSV like this :)

[@Fastade80]

Rsv1000r

[@MegaVinny73]

RSV 1000 R Factory model too. I know this, because Mike is using a toy model of the life size one sitting in my garage :-)

[@dittoyaar263]

2:25 Me, even after watching the entire video 😣

[@justincavinder6414]

Right. Not even a lot of mechanics out there fully understand this too so you can even pay someone to help unless you really want to pay top dollar for someone's time. I'd rather not ruin my bike.

[@ashrayhebbar5885]

If I increase the rear ride height the bike will become more agile right? Since the trail will decrease and swingarm angle will increase...

[@lylemacdonald6672]

Simple explanations of important principles in two wheeling. I run two boxer BMWs: an 84 R100 and 2017 R9T. Completely different geometry on a number of fronts especially the old vs. new suspension. When I get on the 84 after a lot of time on the 2017 I have to be very careful because I will go into a corner with some speed on the 84 and it will not respond at all like the newer bike: it will not carry the same line, will not be as easy to flick into a turn etc. It is a very quick lesson on geometry. There have been some pucker moments let me tell you.

[@malibu188]

On a sports bike lower the front fork spring pre-load and increase the rebound dampening. Great cornering entry, skitterish front end through the corner with some under steering on the exit. Try it.

[@phillpauley6672]

Riding a race bike at insane speeds on a track is on my bucket list!

[@antiquelude]

Very interesting! Great explanation! I think I'm ready to build a motorcycle from scratch now...

[@zakiymerchant]

Came back after 3years and now finally I understand everything in this video and knew all of this. Definitely can’t explain it the way he did, without making it complex and keeping it simple. CHEERS TO MY PROGRESS AND THIS AWSOME VIDEO!

[@franciscofigueroa5908]

My respects!! great content! From Lima Perú

[@shngsam8777]

no. 1k likes! this video give me so much information .. i used to thought 'setup' is just the suspension settings

[@MariaCecilia-rz6bj]

Thank you a lot for this information!!! Here in Brazil, we don’t have videos like this! Thank you for help us to understand the motorcycle’s physics!! Kisses from Brazil!!!

[@nox2505]

Hi. Mike. Nice video. I would like to add few pointers from my experience. Its not only the CG height, which makes vehicle agile or stable, but the ratio of vehicle CG height to rider CG. The way I explain it to my team members, is assume vehicle a vertical rod pivoted at ground with a weights clipped at a heights. While you give input at top end. Lower the height, less efforts you need to move stick around. Higher the weight, higher efforts and less accelerations you can give to stick. No doubt bike tend to capsize at lower speeds with higher height of weight. To prove this, I did few experiments while tuning a production bike. In first trial I mount 15kg (for 150kg bike) weight at level of crank shaft or below engine and in 2nd trial, same weight above tank, the effect can be perceived significantly.

[@rider65]

But the CoG is fluid on both Rider and bike to an extent. You can slightly manipulate the CoG through Shifting the center of mass. CoM. In turn the center of mass never changes, but the center of gravity has potentiality to be fluid to some extent.

[@alec-s]

The centre of gravity heigt don't affects the lean angle, it depends just on weigh/centripetal Force ratio. This depends on the speed and the bending radius, the weigh is uninfluent being either on the numerator and denominator of the fraction. This way it erases itself per each given weigh.... So the lean angle is independant by weigh and just depends on speed and radius...

[@Max-yy3lz]

you're not totally wrong, just stuck in a too simple model of a bike. look at this you'll understand it: s3.amazonaws.com/advrider-photobucket-images/images/d/dealershipids_cg2_zps3dd45ac3.jpg

[@alanalain4884]

What ? You didn't subscribe yet ?.. Thank you for this very cool and instructive video. Still scratching my head on a few things and on the remark at 9.43. If a lower CoG makes the bike easier to steer in (9.21), then how come a bike with a higher CoG is easier to flicker (9.43) ? I feel like: "Abandon all hope, ye who enter here". I need more neurons... Spare anyone ?

[@fredrikdudat9810]

Tire-width combined with weight is determining speed at given angle in turn. THEREFOR is a Motard, weighing 120 kilos on a 160 section tire, much faster mid-corner than a 200 kilo sportbike on 200-section tire.It is the offset of center of gravity and contact-patch that determins centrifugal power in addition to speed and angle.

[@Wyrmidion]

Great info ! Thanks! now i have some things to think about for my bike for next season here in sweden :)

[@wildchild9658]

Thank you for this information brother. Love from #Sikkim

[@spartan7042]

Thanks for making this video very informative.

[@UnyieldingOctopus]

Wow, that was a really great explanation.

[@lishaanhettipathirana]

OMG I have looking for this everywhere...this is a great help for me bro thanks

[@ExtremeRidersJodhpur]

Gotcha well!

[@hair2050]

Small issue with trail making it possible for a bike to stay upright. Experiments have shown that even reversing the trail doesn’t cause the bike to become unridable. Obviously it’s complicated but in short a bike 🚴 or 🏍️ will continue to do its thing with some pretty radical departures from conventional design. Sure that will cause things to function in a less than ideal way, but they still function.

[@renegadeMoscow]

Like everything in the nature - you give to an organizm long legs and compromise on something other, like speed, weight, steering etc

[@alterglobo]

1. Thanks so much. I learned so much with your video. I really did. 2. Only FYI: You are showing an Aprilia RSV (or RSV Mille or RSV1000) miniature not quite an RSV4. The only difference is this model had a twin, not a V4 (hence the rsV4 name) 3. How do you explain the fact that you need more lean angle with a lower centre of gravity? I think I understood everything you showed except for this. I mean, I know supermotos have a higher c.g. and they require less l.a. but they tend also to be massively (not marginally) lighter and as you mention much more aggressive trail. Thanks again!

[@davetee425]

Excellent brother! Youve earned your subscribe button push! 😂😂👍👍 Cant wait for the next one 🤙🤙

[@danytheunicorn95]

10/10. finally a simple explanation with examples!

[@margiotto]

really great channel bro !!!!!! congratz !!!!!!!

[@HeshamMohamedBhy]

You're mentioning @10:14 when the rider brakes (decelerates) the swingarm angle increases however @ 10:50 while the rider accelerates, the swingarm angle ALSO increases which doesn't make any sense, could you explain how?

[@Mrbooboo1972]

Its Actually very easy to understand. From static sag to the basic gyro of the motorcycle. Which is Actually what was taking place when you said : You want to turn and the bike wants to go straight. Which is what you get with counter steering.

[@fredflintstone4087]

Excellent! Thx for the vid.

[@achipiel]

Awesome video. Please tell me where can I buy these model bikes? Especially the RSV.

[@aeror115]

Nice video bro! Thanks for the explanation 🙌

[@SteZic]

Good video, but the concepts are a bit “old”...Trail does nothing, (MotoGP bikes do not have small trails for example) it is just the resulting value of more important things like rake and offset. Higher trail does not mean necessarily more stability if we are talking about different bikes (115 slower to turn than 100), because you can achieve a certain value with infinite combinations (even silly ones). Lower center of gravity does not make a bike more stable in corners, and you confirm this when you say that you need to lean more at a given speed... it is necessary to reduce the leverage that will make the bike tip over during acceleration, that’s the reason why it is lower on sport bikes and why it is lower than the past (less power). And so on. Pay a visit to an Italian site called “Giornale Motori” and look for the tech articles of Federico, a top class engineer, it will explain why a book like the one of Cossalter does look certain thing backwards. Everything starts from CG position and mass distribution on the axes, but it is a long story :)

[@carlosjavierlopezcastillo]

Thanks for teaching

[@MikelJackielou]

NEXT VIDEO : Motorcycle Algebra🤔

[@MarkWladika]

I have suspected that all these stylish custom builds that you see on channels like Bike Shed and Racer TV handle like shit. This video confirms that.

[@noelsoudant6944]

Always very informative and helpfull video's as I've just started a classic racer build of a Seeley TR750. the original has a head angle of 27 dg. most builders I understand decrease it to 24 to make it steer more quickly. my question is: how does head angle and offset influence steering when the trail stays the same? kind regards Noël

[@wilson-nm5ok]

Loved the video, ai learnt quite a lot🤝

[@justincavinder6414]

So what's the set up on your supermoto bike That you race? Did you leave at stock setting or change the front forks position and sprockets?

[@paulbull1993]

Fantastic video

[@SupercarEngg]

The lean angle depends on the CG height??? This is news to me @9:14

[@NickTheGreek0001]

So how the geometry of my 2021 Tracer 9 GT will change when i put a 180/60 rear tyre (instead of 180/55 stock)? And how will affect (fast turning? less stable on top speed? smaller caster angle?) my ride?

[@i_am_samar]

Super Mike ... thanks 😊

[@BenFreedmanRacing]

My home Karting and Race track :)

[@vxru5]

I have a problem with my ZX-6R where it feels like the geometry is constantly changing. One week when I'm riding at a given speed (±70kmh/45mph), the bike feels great, it's responsive and stable, light & easy to lean in and change direction. A week or two later, riding at the same speed, it feels like the opposite. Unstable (head-shaking), poor handling feedback (steering feels lazy and "delayed" almost.) It requires more effort on the bars to change direction. The suspension also doesn't feel consistent. Sometimes it feels stiff and other times it feels too soft, even though the preload and damper settings have not been changed Does anyone know what could be causing this? I've had my front and rear spring rates increased to match my weight, and I've had my sag set correctly as well. I don't know what to do anymore.

[@SKTK612]

Great video TNX !

[@circleprex]

Just a quick feedback: Less music while you're explaining these concepts would help, since English isn't my first language. thank you in advance

[@thejagc4964]

what is the range for the swing arm angle used in road bikes

[@MRGF78]

Didn't learn anything... but thanks for the effort...

[@stevevolz2164]

Thanks for the vid. Excellent explanations. But how does the Buell XB series fit in? Short wheelbase, steep rake, no steering damper and yet it has excellent handling (as far as I'm aware, anyway)?

[@markpavletich747]

What about triple clamp offset ?

[@bxbank]

And how does the duo lever of BMW work to stop diving?

[@TheRealYaro]

For people that aren't familiar, move the toy bikes according to what you're explaining.

[@danblaize5742]

Great vid

[@sheela2072]

More vids on geometry and sliding

[@krnbndwar]

Hi.. nice video.. i too have the book on motorcycle dynamics.. do you came across any concept of how to decide the length of the swing arm?? Are there any calculations of the same?? Kindly let me know..thanks 👍👍

[@Xadhoomx]

Thank you for your video. These things work until you don’t talk about telelever and other like suspension 😂

[@nathanboeger9329]

Awesome!

[@liljuanito123]

Where can i buy those models?!?

[@DasPryo]

Amazing video, but I’m gunna need links to the model bike lol

[@Amin.Ashraf]

Need help. It hurt my brain trying to make sense out of it. In my common sense, low ground clearance = low CoG = (+) stability. That though makes sense in a straight, right? I increase both tyres size in 1:1 ratio. I experience a significant head shake in straight line, scared the shit out of me. So my point is. If you move fork tube up it will decrease trail and vice versa. Doesn't higher ride high make it less stable? Or the consept completely whoosh me.

[@zenpro8164]

very interesting subject and well detailed, I plan on running Bonneville land speed record straight line course, would you say an extended wheel base (9" extended swingarm) and lowering the CG with a lowering link would be a perfect setup for this kind of course vs a stock OEM setup (shorter wheelbase and higher CG)? thanks

[@MikeonBikes]

I've never been involved with land speed racing, so I'm sure there are lots of details that I'm not thinking about, but; Having a lower CoG would definitely help stabilize the bike, as well as getting a longer wheelbase. Aerodynamics will obviously play a huge part in the setup of the bike as well. Adding more trail would be another thing to make the bike more stable.

[@refaelililov8953]

I have one question Where did you get that toy motorcycles???

[@alandean9674]

what's that tune on the outro?

[@castor5001]

That's why know with telemetry an engineer can advice the rider what should do to be faster.

[@cdoanrc51]

Well done

[@Real_MisterSir]

Well that's an RSV1000, not RSV4.. But I guess it doesn't change the value of the information :)

[@KevKoe]

No hate but your rear tire is mounted the wrong way around :D 7:40 or is it purposely

[@lone_berserker]

Ha Ha it is not his bike

[@bxbank]

Anti-squat! I get it now. :)

[@ks3bigksudjoht180]

Thank you so much. I almost made a bike with zero trail. XD

[@AdryDoic]

there's some wrong ..you show moving up forks and lowering the front of the bike . but this only modification don't lowers the back like you do on the model ! .. and dont makes a smaller anti squad angle !

[@FlipWarBucks]

Great information. You gonna do something for Marquez's 8th title?

[@blipco5]

They'll be no crying over the GOAT. He is the GOAT.

[@CyberGasty]

@@blipco5 The GOAT is Giacomo Agostini, period.

[@blipco5]

Cyber Gasty ...Who?

[@CyberGasty]

@@blipco5 go to Wikipedia and you will see. World didn't start yesterday, nor motorcycle racing. Or I can even simplify it for you with his inteview kzbin.info/www/bejne/Z5vUdJKMmbF2ecU

[@rolandocrisostomo2003]

What if there were a bike that could do it all. It would have the ability to move the swing arm or the forks, and to lower its center of gravity. All at the press of a button.

[@sleyaraze8916]

11 minutes passed so quick

[@WhiteLivesMatterPL]

And I still got no clue...

[@Hek692]

My April is does turn in quick

[@cesarortiz9473]

Tu información para los hispanos

[@karabesklow]

i will try to find that book and read probably i will understand all of it. :>

[@hassoonnnn]

Hii, what is the diecast model brand ? Anyone?

[@AmuhAje]

The subtitles look so off :/. Good explanatory video, though.

[@Bunnybringer]

Where i can find your t-shirt ? :D i like it

[@ALLMEM616]

Thanks Johnny Sins

[@thomastikken5826]

I need a KTM scale model like that to fool around with at the office

[@pykeblinder4754]

Hahahahaha your comment made my day, sir.

[@pfistor]

Amazon carries these.

[@absolute___zero]

best comment ever!

[@staninjapan07]

Me, too.

[@thefurcoon4092]

2:26 "the numbers, mason! What do they mean ?!" (I dont know if someone else wrote this or something similar)

[@darwinwallace77]

I bought this book many years ago and I highly recommend it: Motorcycle Design & Technology: How and Why by Gaetano Cocco

[@mikeskidmore6754]

Hey AWi Co maybe you should send a copy of this book to Harley Davidson .. I don't think they have it figured out yet.

[@BigUriel]

When an Italian engineer writes a book about motorcycle handling you know it'll be good.

[@bikersoncall]

I read most reviews, depending on what edition you buy, it's not obvious if the later edition is much improved over the earlier edition, the earlier edition appears a complete nightmare , horrible Italian to English translation, poor math, and very poor editing in general. Looks like some people loved it ,and others found it a waste of time , trying to figure out where the poor translations vs bad math and editing start and finish. :shrugs: , I''ll pass, will look for something else, but glad to know there are books out there that explain bike geometry.

[@mopedlyfe2288]

I'm currently doing a study about motorcycle suspension and some dynamics and this video has summarized a big part of a few books that I've read, which were kind of hard to understand. Thanks for making this, made it really easy to understand, props for that.

[@rider65]

Check out Tony Foal. 👍

[@darkshadowsx5949]

i cant be the only one who actually understood what he said as he said it. mechanics isn't that difficult. the important thing is understanding the jargon. at least he didn't drone on about calculus equations.

[@HadiKnowledges]

Makanya motor-motor kustom bule enak-enak, ginian pake diitung juga :"(

[@vanggr]

Nice videos mike!! I spent endless nights thinking and reading and searching for all these technical issues and details. Is nice to watch them all in one video. One point still not clear to me is the effect of the height of the neck (steering head) from the ground since is very different between bikes of same category. Seems important to me

[@bryenwilliams1092]

Not to be that guy, but something missing on the anti-squat portion is the fact that under acceleration the rear ride height of the bike actually increases not decreases which is counter intuitive. This is doe to the torque vector of the drive chain acting on the axle which sits below the pivot point of the swing arm and the drive sprocket. Or in other words, the drive sprocket is trying to pull the rear wheel to the engine through the shortest distance which is under the bike. If the axis of rotation of the swing arm and drive sprocket were co linear or the rear axle where positioned above the pivot point of the swing arm than the opposite effect would occur. This is one of the reasons why power must be applied smoothly when exiting a corning. To much throttle will shift the CG forward and up. Once rear traction is lost the rear immediately drops until it regains traction at which point the suspension violently extends and draws the rear wheel back into alignment with the front resulting in a high side. .

[@ngo3657]

thank you very much until now i was very skeptical about the acceleration in a turn subject

[@shubhamdahiya1677]

Much appreciated the effort!!

[@mickhunt1965ii]

- ... traction wasn't mentioned, would a bike with a lower swing arm angle (more parallel) create more traction on acceleration because the pulling force is more lateral? The initial power would be *into the swing arm, as opposed to *perpendicular to a more vertical set up... So the question is, does traction come from more resistance (low swingarm angle) or less resistance (high swingarm angle) where weight, engine, rider, etc are all equal? I guess I should read the book. The trade off is obviously trail length on the accommodated design? That why cruisers are as they are..? I should read the book. Any hints welcome. Thank you.

[@ferrumignis]

Great video in general, but the part around lean angle and COG is maybe a bit misleading. Lean angle only becomes dependent COG location when combined with wide tyres (e.g. sports bikes) because the tyre contact patch moves away from the center line of the bike when you corner. For something on skinny tyres the location of COG has negligible impact on the lean angle required for a given speed.

[@Sage_Lucas]

I don't think you explained that part at the end correctly, it should be like this: When you brake: TRAIL decreases, SWINGARM ANGLE increases, WHEELBASE decreases (shortens). When you accelerate: TRAIL increases, SWINGARM ANGLE decreases, WHEELBASE increases (lengthens).

[@georgegeorgakopoulos5956]

Nobody ever crashed from long wheelbase.

[@authenticselection4248]

Impressive! Gonna need to watch this a few times though!