SUPER UPS Battery Hack- Mikes Inventions

[@exgenica]

May have been mentioned by someone else earlier, but two major items to keep in mind when increasing the runtime of ANY UPS unit... ITEM 1 - "FLOAT CHARGE" CAN BE WAY TOO HIGH FOR DIFFERENT BATTERIES The "float charge" voltage ("standby" voltage the UPS keeps on the battery(ies) at all times when they are not being discharged or charged (just sitting there in standby)) can vary by a significant amount depending on the battery type used. The vital information here is that the float charge for one type of recharageable battery (e.g. an arbitrary typical SLA battery) can be a LOT different than the float charge for a different type of rechargeable battery (e.g. a marine-type Deep Cycle battery). It can even vary from one type or model of SLA battery to another type or model depending on manufacturing. From what I've observed, many models of UPS units typically provide a float charge voltage that is too high...even for the originally supplied batteries. What this can mean is that the batteries may not last as long (edit to add: 'as they should last') because the float charge being too high will, over time degrade the batteries faster than if the float charge was set at the right voltage for the batteries being used. Example, instead of supplying a specified float charge of 13.5V to 13.8V for a given SLA battery, the UPS may be supplying a float charge of 14.5 to 14.8V. I have measured such high float charge levels on various UPS units. A suspicious person might conclude that UPS manufacturers intentionally use fractionally higher float charge values to cause early life battery failures in order to increase their replacement battery sales. *_A float charge higher than the specified value for a given battery WILL take months to years off the battery life of that battery, depending on just how high the float charge voltage is above the level specified for the batteries_* I recommend batteryuniversity.com for more information on "float charge" and how it can damage batteries to cause significantly earlier battery failure. (edit to add: 'I have no personal or financial interest in anything associated with batteryuniversity.com' ) ITEM 2 - UPS OVERHEATING DUE TO LONGER RUNTIMES Some UPS units are designed in a way that they are LIMITED in how long they provide backup power due to overheating issues. If they run too long (e.g. users replace original batteries with MUCH higher Ah capacity batteries) then an UPS can overheat and possibly cause catastrophic damage to itself and/or attached devices due to uncontrolled output voltages caused by damaged control circuitry. When I've added higher capacity Ah batteries for longer runtime, I always make sure that the UPS unit will not overheat due to the longer runtime. This may be a simple matter of not keeping the UPS in a closed storage area, or adding more ventilation to the storage area, or even adding more ventilation to the UPS case. I have also installed a fan in two units (one CyberPower and one APC) as they started reaching dangerously high sustained temperatures when they ran for longer than about 20 minutes. (edit to add: 'Running at sustained high temperatures is not good for ANY electronic equipment and at the least can cause early equipment failure. In particular, very high sustained temperatures (even higher internal ambient temps) can cause electrolytic capacitors to vent and cause failures with unpredictable results.') *_One should not always assume the UPS's self-protection for overheating will always work and provide a controlled shutdown, or that a given UPS even has such protection built into it_*

[@CapStar362]

Mike, if you want to force the unit to relearn its endurance on battery power, you have to put about half a load to it, and execute the self test multiple times a day for about 3-4 days. Hold down the power button while its turned on for a total of 6 seconds. 2 seconds will power the unit off, and you get the single beep, DO NOT LET IT GO, continue to hold it for another 4 seconds and you will get a second beep, then release the button and it puts the unit into 'Self Test' which forces battery usage for 5 seconds. another way to help it relearn, is cycle the batteries, go full charge and then run them down on a roughly 80-100w load , when the unit dies, hold down the power button and force a 'brain dead' sequence upon it. hold the button for 5-15 seconds. APC Backups units have logical sense in them. clearing the logic by forcibly doing a logic brain dead procedure clears its prior memory of the batteries it once knew. after a few times of fully cycling the batteries you should start seeing some really impressive numbers as the unit re-learns the numbers as it works.

[@louistournas120]

But how is it going to display the remaining time? 20 h is 1200 min. I don't think the LCD has a place for a 4 th digit.

[@CapStar362]

@@louistournas120 where are you getting that? the firmware doesn't even know how to display that so it would just say 999 or error out to ERR until it got back down to 3 digit capacity.

[@CapStar362]

@@louistournas120 nice job on necro bumping a 2 year old comment also

[@louistournas120]

@@CapStar362 I am basing it on my own UPS. It can only display 3 digits. However, I haven't modified it so I don't know what it would do.

[@OptimaGamingTeam]

The UPS I have when you go above 999 it just flashes HIH (Or basically the shortened terms for Higher than it can display)

[@thangknowa2567]

Instead of the conductive metal hose clamps, you could use large plastic zip ties pulled down tight - non conductive. And yes, those batteries definitely need vented to outside. Hydrogen has a very broad explosive range, 4.1 - 74% and very light, rises up.

[@tonymontana897]

Even a common cable gland would be perfect.

[@MikesInventions]

Still going strong after 18 months. The UPS charging circuit brought the batteries all the way up after several days, and since the batteries are so large, it's as if the batteries are on a trickle charger, like they would be anyway. The minute counter on the display is still meaningless, because the UPS has no idea how big the batteries are, but it is somewhat useful for judging relative charge. The minutes just tick down at a much slower pace. I haven't needed to use them for more than about an hour or so since I installed them, and the internal charger on the UPS worked just fine. Now I plan to use my large auto charger if I run them down a lot so as not to strain the UPS charger circuit. So far so good... Stay tuned.

[@driftkings2740]

So bro didn't it give any problem after the installment and can i use car batteries

[@MikesInventions]

@@driftkings2740 Hey, yes, you can use car batteries. There is a comment down there that says as much. However, car batteries' thinner plates are not to be discharged very deeply. (Only about 10%) so size your batteries accordingly. Also, most car batteries do not specify a capacity, because they don't have to. All they care about is cranking amps. So, there's no way to know what you'll be able to achieve with them. Thanks for watching!

[@quacktony]

@@MikesInventions do you have concerns of off gassing? There's a deal on amazon right now on interstate deep cycle batteries but the concern is the off gassing.

[@userhandle3378]

@@quacktony Probably just want to run a longer cable and not install this sort of unit in the living room. Otherwise, looks like a bad-ass blueprint. Anyone else trying to game on green energy? Found an older Dell server that uses around 100watts under load, going to pair it with an external gpu and then an array of batteries and panels, and maybe just maybe, some way to capture wasted heat. If I ever build a house, I swear I'm rigging my waste heat to pex and setting up heated floors at the very least.

[@TheBrainSquared]

@@userhandle3378 I wonder if there would be a way to use a TEC to recover heat back to energy? Doubt it would be worth it, but I thought it was an interesting idea.

[@mcw0530]

Hi Mike. What you probably don’t know is that APC sizes their components to match the runtime of their batteries. Attaching a super large battery, and a full capacity load, will eventually cause most UPS models to overheat. Instead, use the TrippLite automatic PowerVerter if you want an external battery bank. That’s what I did 20 years ago. They are also fan-cooled.

[@MAustinP]

I like the idea of the PowerVerter, but it does not have auto-switching from AC mains. I wonder if the PowerVerter could be simply installed behind the APC UPS, which means once the acid batteries run out, then the APC will take over for it's tiny 5-10 min and shut stuff down?

[@j_o_h_n_d_u_n_n]

@mcw0530 any way to hack the ups to fully utilize the bigger battery?

[@SamKGrove]

Just make sure the load lies within the specification of the USC. Better if you keep the load about 20% below the spec.

[@bransoncarlton4939]

I bought a surplus APS, and it has a connector on the back for an external battery. So what does APC recommend for externals? Why does it overheat?

[@mcw0530]

@@MAustinP Sorry for the late reply, but the PowerVerter does have an automatic version that auto-switches from the Mains should they fail. I know, because mine does that, just like an APC UPS. I have the 1200W model and it's attached to a 100AH deep cycle AGM battery. Please see TrippLite P/N: APS1250

[@km0390]

I did the same thing a while back. This set up works but one thing has to be considered, UPS' are not design to work for extended periods of time. They have very small heatsinks on the Mosfet/transistors and most don't even include a fan to keep them cool so they end up getting damaged by overheating. Of course to help on this issue you can add your own fan.

[@jamesskinner7744]

Your comment is true for the cheap line-interactive UPS where the inverter stage is only working when the mains go off, but the more expensive dual-conversion units (2X to 3X cost) are designed to work full time and constantly supply clean inverted power. My Eaton 9125 dual-conversion units have internal fans that keep them cool. They also come with connections on the back of the case for plugging in an external battery pack to extend survival time eliminating the need to hack the insides of the unit as shown in this video.

[@pkf4124]

@@jamesskinner7744 Rack mount APC units also work well for this as like Eaton UPS are designed to be on for years at a time.

I think everyone would have liked to see this work. As well as some runtime information!

[@shainojohn8485]

You have to plug in the Data communication cable to the system and install the software and calibrate the battery and change the status as new battery it will give more backup hours

[@immrnoidall]

About "installing software to calibrate the battery and change the status as new battery it will give more backup hours", I just picked up a sine wave, APC BR1000MS to use with my 100 ah battery but it shuts off at the estimated runtime of the small batteries it would normally have. this is a bummer. my older model would run as long as the battery . can this new model be dumbed down to run for the amp hours I have? otherwise I just wasted $100 on this used thing that only runs for minutes. so bummed. I hope you can point me in a good direction to make this happen.

[@dhansel4835]

I have been doing that for years. The best wire that is about 10 gauge and flexible can be found at the automotive shop. I use heat shrinking tube over the connectors that I solder the wires to. In a tight spot getting the outboard battery(s) where you can service them is a real help.

[@jenniferwagner4595]

I just wanted to mention, that if you take apart the battery pack, it is two batteries connected by a card. You can remove the card and it is much easier to access the leads on the card. They are also marked as positive and negative. The card can only be inserted in the correct way. I plan to try this on my my network rack in the basement.

[@bluetonight17]

I know this is an old video, but you can calibrate the ups to those batteries. I found that out with two apc units I have. Just have to unplug let it run on it's normal load untill it is dead and re-charge. My one 1000Va was only telling me 7 minutes after I upgraded it's batteries, but now it shows 45 minutes which is still less but closer to real time. Enough time for me to get out the generator. Just something for you to try to get a better remaining time display.

[@AmongUs-mb4qx]

oh yes, enough time to bring out the dino juice'ator

[@Kyuunex]

What you did can be very dangerous depending on the UPS model. Some UPSes do not isolate their circuitry from mains. Always check for this per UPS before attaching an external battery.

[@MullnerFab]

I did this on my tv and internet as well. I put a 12v 12ah battery on mine. Will run the tv and internet for well over 6 hours. It’s great and has been running for many years now.

[@maartenvandenberg4223]

Umm. 12V 12Ah means 144 watts for one hour or not more than 24 watts for 6 hours, not taking power losses into account. I seriously doubt your TV draws only about 18W. I think you are wildly exaggerating there.

[@thegreenhouseinventor7793]

Hello from Oklahoma-----Several years back, I did what you did by running two UPSs off of one car battery. Both UPSs operated on 12 volts so I got by with 1 battery. What I found out, and, what you are going to find out, is that the battery charging circuit in the UPS is not strong enough to keep a much larger battery charged. A trickle charger needs to be attached to the battery to maintain a charged up state so that when the power goes out, you will have a long run time. Yes, it will work for a while until the batteries go dead, which they will. In your case, with two 12 volt batteries, you need to put a charger on each one about once a week to maintain a charged up status. You can charge each one separately without removing the connector wire between your 2 batteries or removing any of the other battery wires.

[@randydicotti3975]

Good post. I've measured the battery charging output on a UPS XS1300 at 300mA. So Large batteries obviously will take a long time to recharge if discharged even several Ah. Adding an external 1Amp charger would be a very good idea. It's what I did about 10 years ago with mine. Be aware that the extra runtime and charging time will push the capacitors on the board fairly hard and so you might need to check and or change them every year or two.

[@jeremypcp]

Be careful of using flooded lead acid batteries due to off gassing.

[@tonymontana897]

I suspect one can also use AGM batteries too instead of lead acid right ? Do they have to be lead acid ?

[@drincogni]

@@tonymontana897 no AGM works but are twice the price of flood lead acid bats.

[@charleshorseman55]

@@tonymontana897 AGM is lead acid, it's just that the acid is absorbed into a mat instead of flooding the lead plates.

[@AmongUs-mb4qx]

@@charleshorseman55 is it safe to put the UPS sideways like in the video with AGM batteries?

[@charleshorseman55]

@@AmongUs-mb4qx sideways, but not upside down. Not ideal, but should work.

[@BrianSmithology]

Subscribed when you said, "I'm obsessed with off-grid power." :)

[@senjoronie3971]

The big problem I've run into is voltage drop along the feeder lines from the battery to the UPS DC input, and also within the internal wiring supplying the inverter. I'm running an APC Smart-UPS 750 and under high load (250+ watts) the DC voltage across the inverter input (on the board itself) can be as much as 0.6V less than that measured at the battery terminals. It causes the UPS to think the battery is about to die even though it's not even close. I replaced the external feeders with 10awg and this reduced the voltage drop to about 0.3V, and my next step is to replace the internal wiring with 10awg as well as eliminate as many of the spade connectors as possible as they are all sources of higher resistance and therefore voltage drop. I'd expect the 16awg extension cord you're using to suffer quite a lot of voltage drop; what, if any, issues have you had with that in your case? edit: Be advised, when you calculate the number of amps using I = P / V , the number you get is the *average current* drawn, averaged over time. In reality, the current drawn from the battery is not a constant current, it is a pulsating current consisting of periods of current draw, and periods where little current is drawn. Thus, I = P / V tells you 25A, the average current over time is 25A, but because the current is pulsating, the pulses will actually be well in excess of 25A, and as a result, voltage drop will be higher than you would expect if you simply used V = I / R without further consideration. To illustrate, consider a constant 2A through a resistance of 1 ohm. By P = I^2 * R, the power dissipation is 4 watts. Now consider a pulsating current with periods of 4A (on) and 0A (off) at a 50% duty cycle. The current averaged over time is 2A. By P = I^2 * R we see that power dissipation is 16 watts while the power is on. At a 50% duty cycle, power dissipation is 8 watts, twice as much as a constant current of 2A, even though the average current over time is still 2A. Your UPS draws a current that pulsates in time with the switching transistors, it does *not* draw a steady, constant current and this definitely does impact performance (voltage drop and power loss as heat higher than expected, battery life shorter than expected). Finally, as to heat issues, I run my APC Smart-UPS 750 on the 7.5AH internal battery paralleled with a pair of marine batteries (in series) of 115AH. Properly managed (turn off unnecessary lights, etc.) the unit will run for 18 to 24 hours. The transformer does get warm (temperature exceeds 80°C) without additional cooling. I put a 3-inch computer fan onto one of the case vents and as far as I can tell, even at high load the transformer temperature (external, measured on the iron core) never exceeds 40°C, generally doesn't exceed 30°C. That is quite acceptable and in my opinion active air cooling is highly effective at removing waste heat and keeping temperatures in check. Ideally, to minimize these issues, all of the wiring in the low voltage circuit should be replaced with 10 awg, and all blade/spade quick connects or other plugs should be removed and/or replaced with soldered connections, including soldering directly to the transformer's connection tabs. On my UPS the low voltage circuit contains exactly nine (9) connection points, each of which is a point of higher resistance and therefore voltage loss. Eliminating just two of these and replacing just the external feeders with 10 awg cut voltage drop by half and resulted in longer runtime and lower waste heat load. I will be replacing the rest of the wiring with 10awg this weekend. Easy to do and no reason not to.

[@keithmonahan629]

Hey thanks much for this comment. I had originally used a y-adapter off the primary (2) batteries in my Back-UPS Pro 1000S, with 16 awg feeder lines to external batteries. After reading your comment, I'm going to upgrade those external connections to 10awg. The problem I see now is that the UPS doesn't yet recognize the new capacity, and shuts down based on time. Another comment here mentions performing self-tests and "brain dead" factory resets to get it to recognize the new capacity.

[@RemmikRotus]

If you are going to do this please install a full time vent system to the exterior. Maybe even move the batteries to a vented box outside and run your wires in. Gases from an unsealed lead acid battery are explosive, especially when overcharging. Like you stated, the UPS has no idea what type/size of batteries you connected. “So far, so good” are famous last words.

[@louf7178]

Open to the open house, is it a concern? I see hydrogen gas is flammable from 4-72% (an additional half volume of oxygen is also produced) at a rate of 27 cubic inches per AH. I wonder if human "off-gassing" of methane after consuming sauerkraut or beans has similar explosive concerns.

[@Bigmeatslapper]

Well the ups won't overcharge it at all. As the charger in the ups has values lower that the battery's so no overcharging is going to happen

[@RemmikRotus]

Really? Never possible at all? You would stake a family’s life on that? As if errors in software driven hardware could never occur.

[@Bigmeatslapper]

@@RemmikRotus I would yes put a venting system for the battery's as they will get a bit hot and because they are unsealed but again the charger literally has values LOWER than the battery's and no software is going to make that charger just overclock itself 80% that's not how it works

[@tonymontana897]

Yes, my thoughts exactly. Large batteries need venting and placing them remotely, in a well vented, sheltered spot would be ideal.

[@enriquedb666]

Thannks, i had this idea recently...but for my deep freezer. Lots of power outage recently...thanks for your video

[@walkertongdee]

He did it right but remember folks, many UPS units aren't 24 v. like his, some have only one battery inside, that unit is a 12v unit. You will have to run the power cables in parallel if your unit had only one battery.

[@BlainsTube]

Great video! I'm with you on off-grid power.

[@gman76utube]

The RS 1000 and 1500 models have an expansion port to add an external 24v battery pack, no drilling, no mod necessary. For safety, I'd only use SLA batteries.

[@AustinMichael]

The issue I see with this is that if the power goes out usually the node that supplies internet to your home goes out too since most of them aren't on battery backups. I have a 6 kilowatt Eaton 9PX 6K at home with 2 EBM's on it. There are 75 12 volt 5 Ah batteries in that sucker which can run my normal load of 1200 watts for about 4.5 hours. The issue is that our node isn't backed up at the ISP level so if the power goes out the internet goes with it regardless of what I can do in the home.

[@atesone76]

tether your smartphone data or use as hotspot

[@Astaroth_Apollyon]

Hello. Very good video. I have been thinking to do the same for my ups long time ago. The issue here is; 1) When the ups will be in battery mode, its inverter will starts to overheat. How much depends on the load that will be at the output. 2) If it works for a long time, or many hours then the mosfets is most likely to break down. The manufacturer has calculated a specific time based on the output load and the autonomy of the battery. If you go through this then it is most likely to burn the ups as well. In my opinion, if someone makes such a modification like this, to increase the amperage of the battery by almost twice and not more. For example, if it is 9Ah to go to 18, etc. This will make the inverter less likely to burn out.Again a very nice project, greetings from beautiful Greece!

[@bluetonight17]

One rule of thumb to avoid this issue. Always use less then half the rated load. I keep mine around 25 to 40 percent off rated wattage. Because you are correct. If you have a 1500Va rated at 900watts, and you try to fully load that at 900 watts and add batteries, yes it will fail and very quickly. But if you are staying down around 200 watts, it should, in theory handle the load just fine for an extended period.

[@Astaroth_Apollyon]

@@bluetonight17 totally agree.

[@DarkMetaOFFICIAL]

i forgot what you did, but for anyone interested or if you don't already know- marine deep cycles operate slightly differently than normal 12V lead acids or gels. should be 13.4V When fully charged if not damaged inside too much. or maybe 13.2/13.3 is perfect health usually. Having a health tester is a godsend. really let's you know what's going on under the hood so to speak. But hope your setup is working ok! It must have some intelligent charging going on. So that's good. Any old ups would not be recommended for just any marine battery. Although they may work, they might be damaged or unreliable or just not perform as well as they could. Just saying from experience lol. plus always make sure it's a True deep cycle. They are between a starting and deep cycle, lots of people don't realize but some aren't fully deep cycle. Great video boss xD

[@louistournas120]

I measured my UPS batteries. Each is 13.24 V. There are 2 of them and they are connected in series. Are UPS batteries deep cycle batteries?

[@BK-gc1jm]

i did this in 1995 in the Virgin Islands. two car batteries. . ran tv and stereo for weeks. got from offices old UPS systems whose batteries did not hold enough charge,.. new car batteries did it all. actually older boat batteries.

[@packratswhatif.3990]

Yup, go good project to work on. But if possible, try to find an inverter that runs off of 48 volts as they run more efficiently and this is one I would like to use to run my gas furnace on. My problem is trying to find true deep cycle batteries that I dont have to take out a mortgage on.

[@derpherpp]

Buy used one, wherever they usually sell used batteries wherever they sell batteries especially at an independent shops

[@juststeve7665]

you will need a server UPS that runs on 48v

[@cricketol]

you should add a mppt solar charger to keep the battery charged and it will help for a long downtime assist. if you try this you need to know the max charge and the base charge and use the max voltage for the battery balancing and the 13.6 for flout charge if you don't do this the ups will not like it

[@lwphinney]

Thank you for this video. I have several heavy duty ups unit and wanting to experiment . Just gotta get inside the unit to rid that beeping when operating of batteries.

[@user-hh6ex9md4w]

User's Comment: "Wow, this video got me thinking about the importance of having a backup power source, especially when camping in remote areas. Can anyone recommend a good portable power station?"Your Reply: Absolutely! When it comes to portable power stations for outdoor adventures, I highly recommend the Segway Portable PowerStation Cube Series. With its massive capacity, fast recharging, and waterproof technology, it's perfect for camping in remote areas. Plus, the Smart APP Control allows you to easily manage the power flow. Happy camping!

[@diegogavani5679]

Hi Mike, i'm gonna do the same thing with my old apc ups, the only point is the battery dimension and weight, unfortunatelly the only way to go is to use car batteries so i decided to use two of 100Ah so i should get enough power to keep my NAS up and running, i'm also thinking to add a solar panel to charge the batteries, so it will become a double UPS-Powebank project, great video!

[@ramborums]

Will this unit be able to charge two 100AH batteries?

[@diegogavani5679]

@@ramborums You should calculate the current value for charging. Low current means more time for charging and that's not good if the power consumption is higher than the charging power...I'm thinking to change my project and build a big powerstation, i will powerup the pc with powerstation and at the same time i will keep the battery charged. In other words i will feed my NAS power supply with batteries, like a notebook, so i will avoid also power loss from the wall.

[@ramborums]

@@diegogavani5679 my point is if the batteries draw higher current than what the charger is designed for, would that not blow the charger?

[@diegogavani5679]

@@ramborums it depends by the load! ;)

[@louistournas120]

@@ramborums I'm guessing it should be fine. Canadian Tire sells small solar panels for delivering 12 V, for charging car batteries. They say it delivers 40 W, which means it can deliver 3.33 A with enough light falling on the photocells.

[@wafflebloc]

Do you worry about hydrogen gas generation as those are wet cell batteries?

[@Maples01]

I was gonna say, filling the cabinet with hydrogen, if that UPS sparks, you'll hear a big boom

[@RemmikRotus]

My first thought when I saw this video. This is why all indoor battery backups used sealed batteries. There is also more of risk generating more explosive gases with charging batteries from a drained state and charging with a charger that, like he stated, has no idea what batteries are attached. Improperly charging batteries can be very dangerous and having two of these indoors and in a cabinet is asking for trouble. “Good son far” but hope nothing bad ever happens. I have no idea but maybe even possible that the insurance could even deny a claim. With this being fully disclosed on KZbin, it’s more build a case on.

[@danielch6662]

@@RemmikRotus Aren't these marine batteries, intended for used in boats in the tiny enclosed space batteries normally are installed? You don't install batteries on deck or on the roof.

[@KuntalGhosh]

@@RemmikRotus those are sealed lead acid battery .. even if they are flooded they are still sealed. , And this ups charges at 3 to 5amp which is really low for this type of battery these can handle 50amp of charge. Normal alternators on car boats or rv are atleast 120amp capable. This setup will only harm the ups as the ups will have to work harder to charge such a large capacity of battery & long discharge timr

[@jenny-DD]

Nay- hes already drinking lead polluted water- he doesn't care

[@ReviewsandTech]

Great idea, as I have an APC UPS Pro 1300 as well and the batteries are shot too, and I also have a used 12Volt LifePo4 battery too, this is excellent, thanks for sharing your knowledge man, much appreciated.

[@xiaorulez]

Float and voltage difference will kill your Lifepo4s. Good luck. This guy should have warned about lead acid (which is what most cheap UPSs use) and AGM voltage difference. Try to charge AGM with Lead Acid voltages and the cell will swell and short... Put a BMS on the Lifepo4s and you might have them survive. (Cut off high and low). Problem is, low cut off will lock the BMS in most cases and you need to manually charge the battery above the low cutoff

[@davefoc]

Lithium batteries use different charging methods than lead acid and they don't like to be trickle charged. Unless you have very specific knowledge about this I think you need to stick to lead acid batteries or as XiaorRulez mentioned maybe do your own battery management. I was an electrical engineer when lithium ion batteries came out and they were withdrawn from the market because they were catching on fire in Japanese cordless phones. Over the years lithium batteries have continued to catch on fire. They even caused an airplane crash. Personally I wouldn't mess with any kind of lithium battery for this purpose.

[@Pablo-jw9yr]

The Back-UPS Pro 1500 supports an external battery pack, so it was designed to handle (12v 9ah x2)x3, that is 3 packs of 24v 9ah batteries, then it must run without issues with a 24v battery of 27ah or less.

[@AliceTaylor98]

Huawei, Santak, APC, Eaton, Delta series UPS products are available from stock.

[@Sparky5]

This is a good idea. I'll do this when the original batteries crap out.

[@ElMaloDelBronx]

Mike, What about overheating I need to rub amini computer and a satellite receiver. Probably 8 hours at a time.

[@wrathofpaulii]

My dream is to have enough battery backup to run anything in my home for 24 hours with no power. I don't live in California but I am always hearing about rolling blackouts over there because their grid is always overwhelmed. These devices would help in that situation! Also, APC makes a model that allows you to connect an additional battery pack, and it extends the run time of my TV and internet from 50 mins to 212 minutes! it is the same as adding two more of those 24V battery twin packs. but that expansion unit is $250. buy the batteries separately and do it yourself and it will cost a fraction of that with the same result.

[@jimandrews2967]

At work in the factory we use many electric fork trucks. When all of them are charging , it leaves the Sulphur and hydrogen rotten egg smell in the air. Consider how bad it would be in a small space like a basement. Ventilation of batteries is very important. Not only do they outgas while charging they also do it while discharging. I put mine outside with a means of heating them when temps drop below freezing. I charge mine 2 ways. I have a dedicated 24VDC plug in charger and also a 1200 watt solar panel array with a battery charge controller. If batteries still get low due to no power grid AND no sunshine for days , I also use a 4Kw generator to top them off if need be.

[@Jonathan.M007]

Thanks for making this video, i was wondering why I was buying 5mins of backup power for $210....now i can run my gaming PC for two days..... Hooray!!!

[@tamick21]

Crystal Mountain Resort! I love Michigan!

[@tomsawer8696]

Thumbs up for Alex !

[@Hittahire]

So can we make some forever battery's...using that same set up but running the battery through a quincer instead of a doubler while funneling back into it self with an outlet to power lets say a fridge think about it...it should go smoothly and before any power outages you could help alot of people if you build a simple blue print to follow....just a thought

[@brockm4047]

I did this mod on what I can tell exactly the same UPS. One word of wisdom to share- do not put much load on it without also doing a fan mod. Mine overheated after around an hour, shut off and never worked again. I did not place more load on it than it was rated for, but I think the assumption by their engineers is that the duty cycle will be limited due to the limited duration of the included batteries.

[@franchellevanheerden]

I Love this video. Make more of these in different enviroments please. i promise i will watch them all :)

[@olduhfguy]

I like your replacement battery idea. However, I think the battery wire gauge could stand to be a bit heavier if you plan on operating with close to a full load. Make sure you have an operating fan in your UPS as some models will only run for a short time before overheating.

[@juststeve7665]

look at the wall wart for your router... probably 12vdc output. You can just connect router direct to batt/delete the wall wart and save the loss through the inverter. Use the inverter for the T.V.

[@news_internationale2035]

Nothing to control discharge though.

[@ken2400]

Wife "Is that huge battery going to stay there?"

[@John-gm8ty]

not all UPSs will work, some have a hard set run time limit before they will shut down regardless of how big your battery capacity is. (over heating protection as they don't have adequate cooling for heatsinks) out of interes what brand and model is your UPS unit? have a bank under my house consisting of 8 batteries, shoudl give a good run time ;) oh, also, deep cycle are a must standard car batteries are not designed to be drained and not be damaged.

[@trondyne3513]

Probably the most critical part of this job is how and what to use for connecting wires to the terminal inside... If I'm not mistaken you didn't even show this... No problem for experts but big problems potentially for noobs... Also would be nice to know why the time to run on (these ones) batteries is wrong...or if it self corrects or can be corrected.

[@KettlebellGunsmith]

This is an old video but it really needs to be called out more that it's not clear the battery the OP chose was an AGM battery or not. I only saw one comment here calling that out. Duracell makes a marine battery specifically labeled an AGM battery. It's their platinum marine line. The "marine & rv" line this guy picked does not say they are an AGM. Duracell's PDF spec even shows a pontoon boat which has the required air venting for a non-sealed battery. This is a huge safety issue. Lead acid batteries emit hydrogen sulfide while charging. AGM batteries are sealed under normal use but in an overcharge situation they have a vent which still releases hydrogen sulfide. SLA batteries destroy themselves and bulge but contain the gas in everything except extreme situations like the whole thing being engulfed in flames. On top of all of this the OP has the batteries in a closed cabinet. If it's emitting hydrogen sulfide for an extended period of time and someone that doesn't know any better whips open that cabinet door while taking a breath, it could literally kill them...

[@andrewfong4216]

Start playing with LiFePO4 batteries, and you'll never go back to lead acid batteries.

[@Regulated-Liability-Network]

Thanks for the great content 👍

[@MikesInventions]

You're Welcome Sergio. Glad it helped.

[@davefoc]

I wondered about the possibility of doing something like this. I thought it was possible that the manufacturers might do something to prevent it., the way Canon has tried to prevent non Canon batteries from being used in their cameras. It's nice the UPS manufacturers haven't done something like that. I also wondered about the safety of using lead acid batteries in your house. Are there any issues with hydrogen outgassing that could catch on fire?

[@louistournas120]

I would say no. A battery that is low and that is charging should not do much electrolysis of the acid but when it is fully charged, all the energy goes to electrolysis. A battery that gets overcharged often will eventually need some distilled water added. I don't know how the UPS works? Does it detect that it is fully charged and just stop trying to charge it? As for hydrogen, I would not worry about it. As a teen, I produced lots of hydrogen. I compressed the hydrogen into a small propane tank 1.5 L. It will float up and hang around the ceiling and eventually diffuse away. You won't be producing massive amounts of hydrogen. The nastier product is ozone. Most of the product is oxygen but in one test I did, I smelled ozone. There is some official documentation about this.

[@en2oh]

two questions: the first is about running your electronics off a modified sine Wave inverter and second, have you increased the cooling or current carrying capacity ie swap out the MOSFETs etc? These units have a pretty short duty cycle unless the board can be populated with transistors to add capacity. many of these units all have the same circuit boards, just increased capacity with changes to the output stage.

[@genmasaotome3503]

UPDATE: My bad... My math was wrong... it is what the math predicted when done correctly. ORIGINAL POST: OK.. I did what I think is similar to your set-up... I'm only getting 1/10th of the AH? Is the UPS consuming the rest? I have a 75AH battery, 35VA (watt) vent, and doing the maths. Using only 1/2 of the battery capacity where beyond it will damage it... so it is technically 37.5 AH x 120V / 35 VA = 128.6 H. When I did it in real life, I charted the progress it is only going to last 10 H... what gives? Is the UPS consuming the missing AH?

[@BAGINAZARD]

I hate to say it, but these things are made to run the duration of the batteries that are in there. I have done this exact test about 4 times now with 4 different UPS and they will all run fine for small things well under the rated max power output. However if you do run enough enough to start heating up components inside the unit, the heat will not be stopped by that fan they added. it will overheat and burn your place to the ground. Most units are passively cooled, and basically begin heating the the moment they switch to UPS. At the rated power there will be no issue because the UPS will shut down before the heat builds beyond what is expected with the factory battery. but if you extend the run time with these huge batteries they will keep going even when they are smoking and on fire. It's well known, and I have seen it on my end more than once. You are safer with a power inverter that has a backup feature. they are built to run for long periods. If that is not affordable, you could modify that UPS to make it "safer" by adding more fans, better (NOISY) airflow. just keep in mind, if a fire starts in this thing, the fans will help fan the flames and spread the fire quicker.

[@cheefussmith9380]

Terrific video! I’ve been wanting to do this too. Perfect garage/shed project. Cute kid :)

[@kuzadupa185]

Great video, great helper! Question, can you replace those lead acid batteries with the same value lithium iron phosphate batteries???

[@jwestney2859]

The UPS was designed for lead acid batteries. I would NOT use batteries of a different chemistry (like lithium iron phosphate). Each chemistry has a characteristic voltage and applying a charging voltage that is wrong for the batteries that you install is dangerous. Nope.

[@louistournas120]

There are 2 issues. If you attach a larger battery, when it needs charging, the internal resistance of the battery is low and will draw a lot of current. The charger circuit of the UPS would overheat. The other issue is that lithium ion batteries needs a specific circuit to charge them properly. I think, also, that they should not be overcharged. With lead acid batteries, overcharging just causes electrolysis of the water (emission of hydrogen + oxygen).

[@kalinstavrev6896]

The 10A fuse you used is quite low, should be a 20 or 25 Amp fuse (ideally a car fuse). This UPS is rated for about 600W. The fuses will allow: a) 10A * 24V ~240W, or b) 25A *24V ~600W ... the second will be much more adequate.

[@BTC909]

If you want the APC UPS to recalibrate, install PowerChute Plus, connect the USB cable, under Monitor System, Run Self-Test, click on 'Replace Battery Date'.

[@DJtheone]

Great work, however I have doubts on that ups to charge the batteries. It may take ages, have you tasted that yet? Anything above 20A battery will take longer.

[@MikesInventions]

I had doubts too. It's not meant to charge stuff this big. I didn't use the UPS charger to charge them initially or after I used them during a storm overnight. I used the car battery charger for that. Thanks for watching!

[@drumstyx]

24.5v isn't really fully charged. I'd expect 24v to consist of 12 lead acid cells, which should see around 27v float at full charge...

[@fortwoods]

That’s what I was thinking. At rest, the voltage for the two should have been 25.2. 24.5 is pretty much half charge.

[@mikelee9886]

I did the same thing with a smaller APC UPS unit, using several emergency lighting batteries. It was working great capacity-wise, but I guess I was trying to pull too much out of the unit at once because it failed recently when the power went out, so I'll need a larger UPS to handle the load, likely going to buy the same unit you have there. I recommend the emergency light batteries because they are small, easy to connect to, cheap, and are designed for almost exactly this purpose. They are about $35 each, and I've just been buying one every time I go to the hardware store, now I have around 8 hooked up together.

[@duncho1]

Although this sounds as a great UPS runtime extension, but there are few risks to consider among the others written here already: 1. Battery voltage - small household UPS devices are equipped with maintenance free gel type batteries to avoid sulphur acid spitting around. Such UPS are configured to Pb gel batteries type, which require higher charging voltage. In case of one 24V battery used, the charging voltage is 28,8V-30V and trickle charge voltage is 27-27,6V. In case two 12V batteries, charging voltage is 14,4-15V and standby trickle charge 13,5-13,8V. The battery you used for your project (I suppose traction battery) is regular wet battery with lower charge / trickle charge voltage, meaning that it is overcharged when fully charged and GASSING. 2. Balancing batteries - a must have in case 24V UPS had one 24V battery and you decided to use two 12V batteries in series, to ensure equalised charge / discharge. 3. Explosive gas - Hydrogen is produced in Pb chemistry type batteries while charged, so make sure you are not a smoker.

[@louistournas120]

The probability of the hydrogen catching fire is very small. As long as the battery stops being charged when it is full, it should be fine. If full charged and you continue to charge, all the energy goes to doing electrolysis. Even then, the hydrogen produced will diffuse in the room. Oxygen gets produced as well with a tiny amount of ozone.

[@caesarvalenti2763]

I have used a basically identical system for over 20 years. I started with two marine batteries but soon found they did not last long. I then switched to ordinary car batteries and have had much better luck...and they are cheaper. The reason: Car batteries are designed to spend virtually all of their lives at full charge....just like this UPS system. Of course, if you have many long power outages, then a marine battery may be better. Most of our outages are not that long, so the batteries spend most of their lives fully charged.

[@MikesInventions]

Very interesting point Caesar. Thanks for bring that up.

[@caesarvalenti2763]

@Nigel Cam I agree that car batteries are not designed for deep discharge, however deep cycle batteries do not like being at a constant full charge either. You will note that I said this was mainly for shorter outages, and for this purpose, normal car batteries will last much longer. Also, the UPS I have is designed to cut out at lower voltages (specifically for lead-acid batteries), so it will never fully discharge the battery. The user needs to make a decision as to the type of usage that will be typically encountered. Of course, all this is moot if you do like I did recently: I replaced the two car batteries with 8 LiFePO4 batteries. These have much more capacity, will withstand over 2000 charge cycles, have no issues being discharged, are much lighter, and have no maintenance requirements. My new system now has 180 AH of capacity. I should add, however, that it was not cheap!

[@caesarvalenti2763]

@Nigel Cam Not sure what to say. I tried two sets of marine batteries for about 5-6 years. After the second set died, I tried regular car batteries and got about double the standby life out of them. Again, most of our outages were for less than an hour or two. Back then, we did not have that many power failures. Being in Sonoma County, CA with multiple power shut-offs and fires that required us to evacuate, the batteries are used more often and longer...that is why I switched to Lithium batteries last year. My current system can easily last 2-3 full days with about 100w of continuous drain.

[@thatcrazyguy1971]

@@caesarvalenti2763 interesting facts. When you swapped to LiFePo batteries, you just added a BMS to the setup and kept the battery voltage on the same range? I'm trying to come up with a solution for a big power supply I have that currently runs 6 x 12v 9ah batteries. Trying to find a BMS for 72v..

[@caesarvalenti2763]

@@thatcrazyguy1971 LIFePO4 batteries work nicely as replacements for lead acid, 4 lithiums replace 6 lead acid with about the voltage. My lithiums "float" at about 27.4 v, or about 3.4v per cell. You would need 21 cells, but I am not sure they make a BMS for that. I guess you could use three 24v BMSs, but that is not very cost effective. I have seen some 21S BMSs, but they are not easy to find. They also make some that are usable from 20S to 30S. Depending upon your application, you may be able to avoid using a BMS...although I am not sure I would recommend that. If I had to re-do my system, I would eliminate the BMS as the APC UPS does have sufficient battery management in it...plus a 100A fuse.

[@ahah1785]

hope you put an 80-90mm computer case fan in that ups or it might overheat and die from extended run time made possible by your larger batteries=)

[@user-sb4nz3bx7u]

I’m currently adding 2 100a agm batteries in my suv for a power supply. Is it possible to take the display off my apc 1500pro and it displays everything as when It had the two 12v 7.5a batteries in it. It would just be nice to see all the information it displays

[@abecoulter8550]

how are you dealing with the hydrogen gas from the charging of the batteries

[@pipodeclown3782]

Hmm.....I think the minute counter is adjusted to the original battery and won't notice that there is a larger battery then before. I have a car battery on my backup APC 700ES but it gives me only about 13 minutes before it's shuts down my PC. It just don't know about the bigger battery.

[@keithmonahan629]

Yeah I'm seeing the same thing. Shutoff appears to be TIME based on what it thinks the capacity is. Not via a voltage drop, which would be slower than normal due to increased capacity. Definitely not working for me.

[@mrmrjims3865]

why did you put 24v if the initial battery replaced was 12v?

[@tom5051666]

Do not use wet cell batteries (car batteries), they are designed for cranking amps and not capacity. Running them down destroys them. Also when recharging they vent hydrogen gas so keeping the batteries enclosed like you have is just asking for trouble. Use AGM batteries FFS

[@the_rubbish_bin]

He is using deep cycle batteries and at such a low charge rate releasing hydrogen is not a concern...

[@bucketheadone1]

hello mike. great video but i have one slight problem. I have the same unit and have it set up the same way. I need something to last a long time to keep my coal stove running. I'm gone 10 hours a day and if the power goes out, the stove is out. so I wanted to see how long it would last on battery power. when i unplugged it from the wall it went to battery power. The time meter was at 55 minutes. after about an hour the meter went to 0 and the unit shut off. Had a volt meter on the battery;s and still showed 25.4 volts. put my battery charger on the battery's. it took only 5 minutes to bring the battery's back up to full charged. Turned unit back on and the meter said 0. So I put the original battery's back in the unit and let it charge. the next day I did the same routine to see how long it would last. It lasted about an hour, the battery meter counter went to 0 and the unit shut off.. I took the battery's out of the unit and tested with volt meter. Both battery's still were charged at 24 volts. My question is ,,,,, is that meter some kind of memory timer that will only let the unit operate for a certain amount of time and is there any way to reset it or shut it off.. Give it a try and see if this happens to yours. Any help would be a great help. Thanks Ed.

[@tonymontana897]

Excellent Video Mike. I know nothing about UPS devices but I had to purchase one recently for back up power on a home CCTV system. It was a good used one, apparently, but I have yet to get my head around how it functions etc. I suspect the batteries will need replacing as the old owner reckons he's had it for around 4 years or so, so that would tell me that the battery life cycle is almost due. It's an APC C1500 model, the one with the LCD display. Not sure what Ah sized batteries it contains, but I'd love to upgrade them if possible. Hopefully I can find the same physical sized batteries but with a higher output. I'll have to do more research on this. Thanks for the video. It's opened my mind about battery expansion.

[@netautorisationnetautorisa545]

*GET THE OLD BATT.. OUT !! **#FAST** ..* *JUST BEFORE THEY ARE ..."DEAD" THEY CAN "WILL" GO REAL **#BAD** ...* *GET "HOT" ... AND MELT **#INSIDE** YOUR **#UPS** ......* *JUST SO YOU KNOW ....... OK MISTER*

[@DrColg8]

I would assume you could run this set up with the battery bank connected to a solar array, basically just converting the ubs to an inverter with lots of outlets?

[@genmasaotome3503]

How did you deal with the battery constantly beeping after the power is disconnected from the UPS?

[@Mosquito3314]

imagine doing this, but having the UPC unplugged, and charging via solar, rather than plugged in. This would be a good way to just go green but using the UPC as an inverter

[@DrMarcArnoldBach]

The inverter is usually designed to deal with the heat for the operation time of the original battery + small X The idea is to give a server enough time to wait for a generator starting up or like in my case get the system shutdown in a clean manner. You potentially burn your inverter….or need to cool it better. I am sure X is more a 1.2 than a 2 or a 10….

[@CherokezPittman]

User's comment: "This video is amazing! I've been looking for a reliable backup power source for my outdoor adventures. Do you have any recommendations for portable power stations?"My response: Absolutely! If you're searching for a reliable backup power source, I highly recommend the Segway Portable PowerStation Cube Series. With its massive capacity, powerful output, and fast recharging capabilities, it's perfect for outdoor adventures. Plus, its waterproof design ensures it can handle any weather condition. Check it out and let me know what you think!

[@yalahabibi8789]

"All night long and then some! " LOL

[@mohdvipin]

Thanks for the video, I liked your idea and now plan to execute on my BR1000G. Its internal battery are dead. Will the current from APC be sufficient for charging high capacity batteries? Any limitations to consider while choosing the battery size?

[@borriskarlov8140]

UPS will charge battery, just potentially at a slower rate I would think (assuming constant current charging)

[@KuntalGhosh]

A 1000va ups should be able to pull 25amps at full load on 24v battery. So u must atleast use 30amp fuse if u want to get full capacity. Maybe install 15amp fuse on each battery terminal just to be safe and use 6mm wire and use the anderson plug from the old battery pack harness they are appropriate for this application and can handle upto 50amps so u will be able to use the battery at it's full capacity. For long runs at high load u must add a fan to the ups unless it already has one. And next time buy a 100ah lifepo4 😀 . On lifepo4 u can get the full capacity of battery and still charge and discharge them 3000 times.

[@tprobst1]

so, i have to ask you how a UPS 1000 can pull 25 amps ? The standard battery pack is 2 - 12 volt 7 amp hour batteries in a series.

[@KuntalGhosh]

@@tprobst1 yes they over draw from 7ah battery , ups is not designed to run long time. It's made to give u enough power to shut down your pc..

[@ramborums]

Not safe to allow more than 10A for prolonged times. Here the point is to get only longer backups but not at full load. That s not going to be safe.

[@lilrararesales270]

My question can I add solar control to charge batteries

[@peabody3000]

when power goes out, can the APC heat sinks keep up if several devices draw power for an extended period? my understanding is they're solid heat sinks that don't radiate heat, so once they get hot they can catch fire if enough further time elapses

[@aatirehrarsiddiqui8894]

Excellent video. Subbed.

[@DeviloftheHelll]

would like to see a thermal image of the ups past 50 mins, those have no fan to cool the transformer inside

[@juntech..3440]

HOW ABOUT IN CHARGING CAN UPS FULLY CHARGE THAT HUGE BATTERY, WHILE NOT YET NEEDED, DURING POWER OUTAGE.

[@CapsLock33]

cool, thanks for the tips!

[@deraid712]

How did you overcome problem with full charging higher capacity batteries? It needs 10% charging power from total capacity

[@dannysells2034]

I had the very same Idea but also maybe pre charge the battery with solar panels first

[@CeceliPS3]

Really cool, although for the thing I'm looking for it's not gonna cut it. You showed on your spreadsheet that it's pulling 76W. I need it to pull 700W and people have told me that I a UPS can't handle that without overheating and that I was gonna need an inverter to do this job. The problem is that in inverted, as far my limited knowledge goes, can't funcion as a UPS. I've seen a few videos and the inverter keeps powering the battery and wasting energy out of the wall and if you build a home made super complicated system to automatically turn it on and off according to power outage, it's not something quick enough to not make your gaming PC not turn off for a second in the meantime. I wonder why the hell haven't anyone come up with a actual gaming UPS....

[@AmongUs-mb4qx]

There are literally UPS designed to handle 1000w, look up APC 1440va UPS, lot of options. Hook it with your 24v inverter system with couple of 200Ah batteries in series and you can game for hours!

[@CeceliPS3]

@@AmongUs-mb4qx I got a UPS TS SHARA 1500VA. It works great when the power goes out for a few seconds or minutes. I haven't tested how long it can work under stress though and I haven't seen any video on how to hook it up with car batteries and stuff :/

[@AmongUs-mb4qx]

@@CeceliPS3 you shouldn't hook it up to car batteries unless you wanna charge it separately everytime it discharges, buy a 24v inverter system with big batteries and hook your UPS to the inverter, UPS will do fast switching and inverter will provide long backup, it won't be efficient but it'll be convenient and reliable.

[@CeceliPS3]

@@AmongUs-mb4qx I saw that once. Won't the batteries be rendered useless with little time since being hook with an inverter all the energy coming out of the socked to the computer will be passing through the battery first being in a perpetual state of discharge and charge?

[@AmongUs-mb4qx]

@@CeceliPS3 that only happens with online UPS and that's not an issue, infact it's better as voltage remains constant. Your model isn't an online UPS so it's out of question. I've been using this setup for 16 years, never had an issue.

[@wrathofpaulii]

so the UPS will "learn" the new capacity of the larger battery on its own? or do you need to do a few charge/discharge cycles?

[@maintaman8142]

Tq. Klau pkai batery long hours only apc hanya sepuluh jam tv boleh dihidupkan, kipas dan lampu. I try apc 1000w. My house no electricity supply i need lamp, fan and television. And small else.

[@singrun7618]

I have. 8 varta bigblocks one of them have 12v 1015a starting current 240ah capacity. So little less than 1kah

[@dantedante9867]

Wish ups can use for a bigger batt

[@5150markass]

Hello. I have the same apc as you and when I doubled the size of my battery amp hours, my apc will still shut off with the same amount if time used as before my upgrade. How did you trick your apc to stay on longer than it was programed to be on from the factory with a specific amount of load? Very frustrated because I didn't get any benefits of doubling my batterys

[@MathsYknow]

If you're not using the shutdown software, the UPS will shut off based on battery voltage. This means you don't have to trick the UPS if you change the battery capacity. The bigger the battery, the longer it will take for the battery voltage to get down to the shut-off level, therefore you automatically get longer runtime. The only exception is that some APCs will automatically shut off if the load is too low for them to detect, but the manual shows you how to disable that feature.

[@pomiller1972]

Wait... Didn't you charge the batteries and then unplug the ups to see how long they lasted!!!???

[@toobglued]

likely this thing has internal thermal protection it it runs too long on DC

[@John-gm8ty]

being as small at it is, I'd agree it's highly likely.

[@PVT_MaYhEm]

Well... I hope you have adequate ventilation, and are constantly checking for leaks... because let me tell you... exploding batteries happen.

[@paulmurgatroyd6372]

It's a shame there isn't any way to recalibrate the display for the larger batteries, but I guess it's factory set for the internals.