Inside The Cockpit - P-51D Mustang "Twilight Tear"

[@GregsAirplanesandAutomobiles]

Excellent timing. I now have something to watch on my long airline flight home tomorrow.

[@Qwerty-jl2yw]

Would love for you two to do a collab. Maybe something on WW1 bombers, like the Ilya Muromets? Everyone only focuses on fighters for the Great War and never enough on the budding development of frontline/strategic bombing in that war

[@radicaljellyfish4435]

What video of yours did MAH reference?

[@UmHmm328]

You know what you see when you look at the Mustang? America, baby. America.

[@drgondog]

Good video - couple of points. No water injection for 1650-3 or 1650-7. Only the 1650-9 for P-51H (and Merlin 100/RM 16 SM on XP-51G). All P-51s had retractable tail wheel - but operationally, the tailwheel was locked down for the P-51H in the late 40's. The P-51 wing XP-51 though D/K was the NAA/NACA 45-100 High Speed/Low Drag wing - not Laminar Flow. Its features included very low parasite/form drag for several reasons. First, the actual flow from leading edge, while experiencing transition from laminar flow (inches), to 'attached transitional turblent flow' past the 40% chord (conventional separation for 109, Spit, P-47, F4U, etc wings were at 25-30% chord). This had the effect of increasing the form (frontal area) drag on the conventinal wing while the separation on the Mustang wing was more or less masked by the thickness of the wing itself. Next, the pressure distribution over the wing was more 'balanced' with center of pressure closer to 40% chord (vs 25% for conventional wing). When shock waves formed, they were delayed by low (er) velocity gradient which had the effect of reducing 'mach tuck' changes behind the 40% chord as lift co-efficients were reduced by the mach wave formation. Last, the mfg quality was the highest, but the first 40% of the upper/lower surface of the wing were puttied (joints/flush rivets), primed, sanded and painted. The other technologies very important, included 1.) 2nd order conical sections design for fuselage design which emphasized gradual velocity gradients/no bumps. 2.) Meredith Cooling scheme far superior toany WWII aircraft save final year Martin Baker V. The Spitfire, Bf 109, Hurricane, etc had no real scheme to harness equal pressure distribution across the face of the radiator, add energy and squeeze the high speed heated air into a reduced area plenum to a small exit area to create a jet effect. A final note: Our family is so thrilled by Fagen's restoration project of my father's sixth WR-B/ JANE VI of 354FS/355FG wrecked in MAC June 2, 1945. It was recovered and well along restoration by Pacific Fighters when they sold to Fagen. t was a combat vet with four ground scores to add to my father's previous 7-1-1 air in prior P-51B/C/Ds.

[@thethirdman225]

And Greg puts it all down to manifold pressure…

[@andreperrault5393]

Just like Ryan, curator of USS New Jersey, talks about other ships and their supporters, as doesDrachinifel, it is great to see you mentioning Greg. All of you are working to be complete and insightful on their subjects, just like The Chieftain. So please keep mentioning each other positively and work together when possible. Each person brings their approach, knowledge, and expertise. Chris, keep up the good work. Thanks

[@seanmcardle]

Well said

[@thethirdman225]

Unless there is a second ‘Greg’ video I haven’t seen, I found his conclusions incomplete and unsupportable. From my memory, he asks why the Mustang was so fast and his only conclusion was ‘manifold pressure’. He dismisses the laminar flow wing and he dismisses the Meredith Effect of the under-slung radiator. He also leaves out a third factor. The laminar flow wing can’t be completely dismissed and it just shows his knowledge of aero is a bit limited. Now, I would be the first to say that, in the vast majority of cases, the Mustang wing was laminar flow _in theory only._ The fact is that the speed of construction required and the methods of the day meant that it was not a true laminar flow wing. It was a good attempt but it was not completely successful _in that regard._ True laminar flow wings did not appear until after the war. Secondly, the Meredith Effect from the radiator provided about 300lbs of jet thrust at maximum speed and for anyone curious, that translates to - if my maths serve me correctly - about 500 extra horsepower. I’d have to sit down and calculate it but it’s also worth remembering that jet thrust and power are not directly related so it will be an approximation. Thirdly, Greg left out one of the most important things about the Mustang wing. In the late 1930s, high performance aircraft wings had slim profiles and had their maximum thickness about about 30% chord. This was true for both the Spitfire and the P-47. Off the top of my head, I can’t remember the exact thicknesses but they are of the order of 11%, while the P-51 was about 16%. This created problems for the older designs with high speed flying because the drag build up and a substantial shockwave would form on the upper surface that would become increasingly prominent, creating downstream effects that could result in loss of control. It also meant that a truly high speed cruise was both less efficient and less possible because the drag curve was a lot steeper. The P-51 wing, on the other hand, had its point of maximum thickness at 38.9% of chord and a semi-symmetrical profile. Because of this, it developed smaller shockwaves on the top and bottom surfaces. This had the two-fold effect of drag reduction and more predictable handling at high speeds. This is a bit too complicated to explain here but it suffices to say that after the P-51, all new high speed fighters, like the Hawker Tempest, had their points of maximum thickness further aft. So Greg’s conclusion that it all came down to manifold pressure is not even close to the whole story. The most important thing about the design of the Mustang is that it was a complete package and not just reliant on one thing. Yes, manifold pressure was a factor. But so too were the raft of aerodynamic advancements the Mustang pioneered. As a piece of aeronautical engineering, it represented a half a generation advance over earlier designs, like the P-47 and the Spitfire. But it wasn’t one single factor. It was a combination of all these things and probably a few more I have left out.

[@seanmcardle]

@@thethirdman225 maybe schedule a friendly debate with Greg?

[@hadtopicausername]

A collaboration between you and Greg about cockpit ergonomics would be kind of awesome.

[@michaelmoorrees3585]

The thing I noted most, of Greg's video, is that North American, the maker of the P51, was started by Anthony Fokker.

[@tinglydingle]

Although to my knowledge, no P-51Ds were manufactured with fixed tail wheels, later in their service life it was quite a common field modification to fix the tail wheel in place by removing the hydraulic lines and gear doors, and pinning the strut in place. This was usually done when the retracting mechanism was worn or damaged, as a simpler alternative to repairing or replacing the unit. As I say, I only know of this happening later in their life (post WWII) and by this time the Mustang was no longer the premier fighter the USA(A)F had available and was mostly used in secondary roles and ground attack, so less need to preserve the low-drag profile of the aircraft, although I would not be surprised to learn that this modification was occasionaly used during WWII as a temporary repair if the need arose.

[@michaelguerin56]

Nice aircraft. Thank you Christoph and the Fagens.

[@M29WeaselDriver]

Fagen Fighters museum is fantastic!!! They put on an airshow to which is the best small airshow you’ll ever go to! And the Oshkosh airshow is huge. It’s impossible to see it in under 3-4 days of walking if you’ve never been there. You’ll likely never see a bigger gathering of flying ww2 aircraft anywhere else

[@brunomadeira8432]

The Mustang, particularly the D version, is such a good looking and well proportioned plane. And like most US hardware very well though out from the user perspective.

[@andreperrault5393]

Most WW II aircraft that were successful had a certain proportional good look about them. I am biased to the U.S. aircraft, though

[@johnschultz9947]

That was very clear and well done. Thank you very much.

That warning system sounds very interesting and advanced for the time. Interesting

[@IronLion8851]

I would also highly recommend going to the Military Aviation Museum in Virginia Beach where all their aircraft are in flyable condition. Their aircraft starts from WWl the way up to the Korean War.

[@isaacclarke8420]

Thanks so much for posting this, this is a phenomenal video

[@waynekerr5645]

How funny, I thought I recognised it, I’ve just found some pictures I took of Twilight Tear at an air show at Duxford (UK) in 2007. Beautiful aircraft.

[@ralach]

Lovely looking aircraft :) nice to see it being so well taken care of :)

[@154Kilroy]

I just went to Fagens Fighters about 3 weeks ago. I live in Minnesota and have all my life. But never heard of it until the video of the Zero on this channel. I brought out some 35mm film cameras and took photos. Including this very aircraft. It's incredibly mirror-like in person.

[@ricardocorbie6803]

Chris,, you are my main man,, thanks for doing this feature on my all time favorite aircraft 💜💜 Thank you!!🙏🏿

[@johncashwell1024]

I am a bit surprised, having seen several of these "inside the cockpit" videos, at just how simplified the controls and instrument/gauge layout of the P-51D is.

[@fazole]

You can really see how much ergonomics have improved in the Mustang over, say, the Corsair or Thunderbolt. I believe the British came up with the standard "6 pack" of flight instruments in the Spit. first.

[@pedroandrade4203]

@12:58 That´s the hydraulic pressure release, to prevent accidentaly raising the gear while the airplane is on the ground.

[@scottwooster4102]

The plane looks brand new. Thanks for sharing!

[@AirJimInCT]

Oh goody! More Oshkosh fun and we get a Mustang? Hot damn!

[@kingchefmurray557]

I have a 1:72 corgi die cast model of twilight tear in my room! Beautiful plane! 🤝

[@snodrifter1]

My Dad, LTC David Ormiston, USAF retired was a Mustang driver. I recall him telling me there were problems with the early tail wheels staying down and locked. Some units would reconfigure them to be permanently down. The pilot would report, ‘gear down and welded’ I believe later 51’s started to be manufactured with the tail wheel permanently down.

[@Nick19962010]

My favorite fighter! Always love flying it in Aces High 3!

[@mastathrash5609]

There is footage of Twilight Tear firing its guns on a stand several years ago...its epic.

[@NitraKing]

Great video, Mr. Bergs

[@jcorbett9620]

7:10 A slight mis-speak Chris. I strongly doubt the bomb load was 5,000lbs, when the pylon says 550lbs max on it!

[@MilitaryAviationHistory]

haha, it happens :D thanks for pointing it out

[@MsZeeZed]

Well if it could carry 5,000lb bombs, there’s not much point taking the B-17s along too! 😹

[@pat8988]

Beautiful airplane! I have never seen a cockpit so new looking. Most I’ve seen look their actual age.

[@shaunwest3612]

Great video, stunning aircraft 👍👌😀

[@Silverhks]

Chris you missed the twist of the throttle handle to adjust the range on the gyro gunsight. An excellent overview of this bird though!

[@tobiasz6613]

I'm sure I remember reading the P51 had an incredibly short deelopment time by the standards of WW2 fighters - it was a fantastic aeroplane.

[@NoManClatuer-pd8ck]

I was passed by Fagen once on highway 212 heading west. I was going 70. But I might as well have been standing still.

[@fox2102]

Interesting thing about twilight tear. There is a video of her at a gun range, with the tail propped up, firing all 6 .50 cal machineguns.

[@paul_mumford]

Lovely hat!

[@mysteriousstranger4317]

Amazing, thank you!

[@randyhavard6084]

Excellent video and GregsAirplanesandAutomobiles is a fantastic channel if you are interested in aviation and WWII era aircraft

[@britishamerican4321]

Thanks a lot for the video. What's going on with the inboard guns? Are they set farther back in the wing, and so don't stick out as much as the other two?

[@richardvernon317]

AN/APS-13 was the US version of the British ARI 5664 "Monica" tail warning radar.

[@delta5297]

So how did the P-51 become a long-range escort fighter? Was it due to some revolution in aerodynamics that allowed it to cruise more efficiently? Did it have a greater internal fuel load than other fighters? Did it sacrifice combat performance for greater range?

[@richardvernon317]

Mixture of all of the above!!! Less drag due to aerodynamics of the wing profile,. More fuel than most fighters built into the design from the start. Extra fuel tank fitted behind the pilot, which did make affect the performance and stability of the aircraft until that fuel was burnt off. That fuel was used first before the aircraft ran into any combat, plus Drop tanks.

[@Pikilloification]

Gorgeous aircraft, really

[@radicaljellyfish4435]

Would the P-51D’s have been able to fit 20mm cannons in the wings (say 4) instead of six 0.50 cals or would they have been too thin?

[@thethirdman225]

The British fitted four 20mm cannons to some of their Allison Mustangs. They weren’t needed for bomber escort.

[@rand0mn0]

The queen of WWII piston-engined fighters. What a beautiful airplane.

[@zer-ok9sn]

Such a beautiful plane 😍

[@AWACS_Eagle_Eye]

I'm pretty sure there's a video from a few years ago where the Twilight Tear fired its guns, and it's not old footage.

[@scottkasper6378]

Great video. When I play dcs, the p51 cockpit has something that isn’t shown on this one. On the upper left top of the “dash” is mounted what looks almost like a horn pointing at the pilot. It has a mirror-shiny convex piece in the center. Anyone know what that is?

[@thomasaltruda]

4:45 chrome plated? I think he means polished lol great video, I enjoyed it!

[@MilitaryAviationHistory]

hah, my bad. I assume, I meant to say 'chrome' look or something like that

[@spacebadger21]

Not to be basic, but the P51's are just so pretty. 😍

[@PalleRasmussen]

The plane that broke the Luftwaffe. And yes Chris, she is beautiful.

[@sid18vik]

Shout out to Greg...

[@thethirdman225]

Greg is basically wrong. Both Drgondog and I have pointed out the things which made the Mustang so fast but Greg wants to nail it all down to manifold pressure.

[@faeembrugh]

Am I right in saying, but were wartime P51s actually quite grimy as the Merlin exhaust spread oil all over the airframe?

[@walterroosa7999]

I watch your videos regularly and you do awesome job. Whats up with the hat? Wear a ball cap bro 👍

[@thethirdman225]

Baseball caps are stupid. They’re too tight and your scalp doesn’t breathe and they proved no protection for your ears or neck.

[@Axonteer]

Oschkoschoschoschosch :) so cool content i wish i could go tere

[@ujduche]

Was this plane chrome plated, or just polished and clear coated? It seems like chrome plating would be heavy.

[@MilitaryAviationHistory]

polished, my brain probably meant to say 'chrome look'

[@redondo8095]

For us rookies, next time could you please show an average sized person getting into the cock pit and then show how they would reach and then steer and use the controls? Thank you. All the great details you provided sometimes are too much and just fly over our heads.

[@DasNik25]

12-cylinder inline Engine? Must be the P51 B(orzoi).

[@tinglydingle]

As opposed to radial, he's not referring to a straight 12 engine. A V-12 is an inline engine.

[@jeremyatkinson4976]

Faster but with a lower climb rate than a Spitfire. This was proved when USA pilots attacked Spitfires only to see them rapidly climbing away. But then the planes were designed for entirely different roles

[@garysarratt1]

Same engine, around twice the weight?

[@fazole]

At what altitude? This question must always be asked when comparing aircraft performance.

[@tinglydingle]

@@fazole The Spit IX outclimbs the Mustang at every altitude.

[@thethirdman225]

A Spitfire with that much fuel would be pretty sluggish too.

[@garysarratt1]

Pity they didn’t put the Griffon in Mustangs, seems at least one would have been interesting.

[@Splattle101]

Water injection? In a P-51D?

[@thethirdman225]

Yes. One of Packard’s contributions.

[@Splattle101]

@@thethirdman225 Water injection wasn't added for the Mustang until the H series. This example might have one of the later engines.

[@schlirf]

Ganz toll, und Danke! But given the choice between the modernized 51, 47 or 40, I'll take the Jug, with the P-40 a close second.

[@thethirdman225]

The Mustang was at least half a generation ahead of the P-47 and its results reflected that.

[@IowanLawman]

The P-51 Mustang WON THE WAAAAAARRRR. Oh back in my day the P-51 Mustang won the war!!!

[@michaelporzio7384]

Possible interesting topic, (true or false!) I read that when Packard started producing the Merlin engine under license, there were no assembly instruction manuals for torque settings, parts alignment tolerances, etc. They were told by Rolls Royce that all the fitting was done by hand by experienced workers, that there were no manuals. Packard had to figure out training semi-skilled workers on the fly before they could develop instructions.

[@thatsme9875]

yes indeed, I understand that in addition, the British blueprints, which were all in Imperial Measurements, had to be changed to American Imperial units as the units, and tolerances, were different! so, 5/16th of an inch is not the same!!

[@michaelporzio7384]

@@thatsme9875 thanks for the reply! amazing what was accomplished by hand in the pre digital age!

[@thethirdman225]

Most of this is just myth. The plans were redrawn by Ford UK in time for mass production.

[@JamesLaserpimpWalsh]

Fanx Crizza boi.

[@e36s50b30]

Its definitely not an inline engine 😉

[@MsZeeZed]

Cadillac of the skiesssss!!!! (someone had to)

[@ME-xh7zp]

Would recommend looking deeper into Greg's videos before promoting him

[@stevewhite3424]

What the heck does that mean? Sounds like you have something to say so why not say it instead of pussy footing around.

[@thethirdman225]

Yeah, I would too. He’s gained a credibility way in excess of his talent.

[@Flyingcircustailwheel]

@@thethirdman225 what? It’s good stuff?

[@janmale7767]

I like the Stang , but once again not as wonderfull as some would like to believe due to nationalistic pride and wartime propaganda! Substantially heavier than a bf -109 which translates into climb and manueverability penalties.The great achievement of the 51 was it's range and relatively high speed,so it could engage and choose when to disengage in a fight with a 109 (up until the 109 super K version came onto the scene), it didn't make sense to hang around to long in dog fights with the Luftwaffe (from there the name 'runstang') The Luftwaffe did manage to destroy 3000-00 + of them over the skies of Europe but time was running out for the Luftwaffe whose expertent had been killed , replaced with greenhorns who were basically cannon fodder for the much more highly trained US pilots bolstering the idea that the stang was a super plane!

[@Legitpenguins99]

Such a beautiful plane with such a horrid paint scheme

[@tinglydingle]

Yeah 84th FS livery is very ugly.

[@anonymous8780]

Only P-51H had water injection.

[@SuperiorAmericanGuy]

The mustang will beat the Soviet yaks and other piston powered planes of world war 2.

[@fazole]

At what altitude?

[@SuperiorAmericanGuy]

Figure it out.

[@thethirdman225]

They weren’t fighting them so who cares?

[@nattygsbord]

F35 is better

[@RadioNostalgia]

Waste of time, WASTE OF MONEY

[@PalleRasmussen]

You breathing? It would seem so, but you be the judge of that.

[@stevewhite3424]

You shouldn't be so self critical.