Milton Friedman - The Robin Hood Myth

Milton Friedman explodes the myth that government takes money from the rich for the benefit of the poor. www.LibertyPen.com
Source: Milton Friedman Speaks
Buy it: www.freetochoos...

[@robinhansen8105]

The best way to fight socialism is to educate people in economics.

[@angelinaalcantara5580]

You realize that there are many socialist economist, right?

[@robinhansen8105]

Lean Alcantara Yup, but education would still, in general, reduce the popularity of socialism. Hey, there's burning buildnings with fire exstingushiers, right?

[@angelinaalcantara5580]

So, those socialists are less educated in your opinion? You know that people always disagree notwithstanding the same level of education and intelligence, right?

[@robinhansen8105]

Lean Alcantara No, I did not imply those socialists were less educated. I implied they were wrong.

[@angelinaalcantara5580]

Well, initially you said "educate people in economics". But that's fine, so long as you clarified it now.

[@Jordanicolass]

The tax payers pay for it! Including the ones that don't go to school! Nailed it!

[@andrewlunceford5503]

such insight

[@dostthouevenlogicbrethren1739]

Ironic that these lefties' solution to people not being able to get ahead is to force those who don't go to school, and thus work lower paying jobs, to pay for those who do......

Lower income people DO NOT pay almost any taxes, so the higher education is not supported by them. I like Friedman ideas, but sometimes he's simply wrong.

[@silikon2]

@Yep, either things have changed or he's just wrong here.

[@denysivanov3364]

That’s not true. Around 20- 25 percent goes to taxes if you are poor in California.. also employer pays additional 15 percent as social insurance and around ten percent more for health insurance, another tax basically.

[@AmerginMacEccit]

I absolutely love all Robin Hood movies, but the story was never about robbing people and giving to the poorest. It was about a noble knight, very loyal to king Richard fighting in the crusades while traitors conspired against him to divide and take over England. Robin Locksley was betrayed and outcast, he joined a band of brigands to fight opponents of king Richard and protect the realm. He robbed those who oppressed poor people with too high taxes and tyrannical laws.

[@christiansoldier77]

+brett kelly Robin Hood wasnt a socialist or antisocialist in his day the feudal system keep people poor so he was trying to give money to the poor instead of the rich having all th emoney

[@higharcangle]

+Christian Soldier Communism and some forms of socialism are inherently feudalistic though, because the political ruling class controls the flow of wealth.

[@DTOptics]

The rich in this case being the government. He was stealing from the government and giving back to the people.

[@sixclocks]

I remember the tv show. the song said 'stole from the rich and gave to the poor.'

[@StarWarsomania]

mitch dineen Yes, and David "Davy" Crockett killed a bear when he was only three. It's almost like... theme songs are simplistic versions of reality that you shouldn't quote when people are talking about actions in the real world instead of a television show.

[@Huntington12345678]

I've never been hired by a poor guy.

[@iamasmurf1122]

Huntington1234567 i have its called having my own business, in business i can not afford to discriminate against the poor a lot of them are good customers i am hired by them , and not judging people you should learn

[@adamfrisk956]

Michael Wilson For the love or God, use grammar!

[@daveslyker4431]

@@iamasmurf1122 poor people don't hire contractors. They can't afford that

[@b3hemoth448]

Nope but we did (unwillingly) hire them all to not do a job (welfare)

[@maskedmarvyl4774]

@@daveslyker4431 , I'm a poor person and I'm hiring a contractor right now. I don't have a choice.

[@xallthatremains8339]

Can you imagine him trying to speak at a university these days? There would be riots

[@jimgallagher5902]

Yep, moron millenials and snowflakes would rather "riot" than learn.

[@willn5213]

When he descrived the poor as less skilled i couldnt help think its true and also how that would piss a lot of ppl off if theyre in that demographic

[@Bucketheadhead]

Jim Gallagher There aren’t many millennials still at university buddy, unless they are doing postgraduate degrees. The youngest millennials today are 24 years old.

[@jake_runs_the_world]

Uh no ? Get out of your Eco chamber

[@lenurban]

For good reason. His ideas are crap.

[@joshm9407]

Milton Friedman was smart enough to know that when a recession happens the answer isnt: "Tax our way out of this son of a bitch!"

[@joshm9407]

+hampe hjsjdf I was just agreeing with your statement. Narendra Modi who is the Conservative leader of India has an approval rating in the 80's because his pro business, Capitalist policies are working and making their streets safer, the poor better off, and businesses prosperous. People predicted that because he thinks and acts like a Conservative that he wouldnt be take. seriously, get elected, or be successful. But he proved them wrong. Canada also prospered under former Conservative Prime Minister Stephen Harper. God help them now thay they have a Leftist leader.

[@joshm9407]

+hampe hjsjdf In America Conservatives will hopefully "win by losing" which is a common expression. It means that by losing and creating a Liberal dominated Country there will be no room to blame Conservatives who are out of power when the next Great Recession happens. Then the famous line "Democrats are for helping the poor man." will never be believed again by the American people.

[@joshm9407]

+hampe hjsjdf Yep. When I was growing up parents took more responsibility form their children and taught them hard work, responsibility, and self reliance. And those Liberal generations were a lot less Liberal than today's young generation where many young people have either one, no, or irresponsible parenting. I was young myself, in those days I was Liberal, I knew everything about everything, and my father seemed so naive about the real world. Now after aging past 35 I learned my "Archy Bunker" dad wasn't a closed minded, inexperienced, dolt. Luckily I didnt vote back then. Today's "know it all" teenage voters vote Liberal because they "Know" what's best for America.

[@haloljt]

+hampe hjsjdf No, the right wingers of Sweden are still social democrats.

[@haloljt]

A conservative put you in this spot, a liberal improved your economy. Does being conservative mean that you waste all your money on warfare?

[@dewrus2153]

No matter if you agree with Mr. Friedman or not, we must admit it is quite refreshing to listen and watch someone talk about social and economical aspects of our society without name calling or inserting partisanship. There are a lot of important issues we need to work through but I find it difficult to discuss these issues with people today. It seems that we can't get more than two sentences into a conversation before someone starts blaming the left or the right, and regurgitating a bunch of crap they've heard from some biased media. I think if people could just focus on what is best for everyone instead of focusing on beating the other side into submission...we'd really benefit as a society.

[@NicholasWongCQ]

he talks so much sense my head exploded

[@maskedmarvyl4774]

I'm sorry to hear that, ma'am......

[@davidcravatta386]

One of the best American thinkers. Are you listening Sanders? How 'bout you Rodham?

[@tomdalton4293]

+David Cravatta Very intellectually gifted, but like many academic elites, no real world experience

[@davidcravatta386]

Respectfully disagree. I suggest you consider his policies he advised Volker to undertake. The result was one of the most robust economic expansions in US history.

[@tomdalton4293]

David Cravatta I agree with that. What I mean specifically was his views on workplace safety regulations, which may have been very different if in the 30s he had spent any time working in a steel mill, coal mine or some other highly hazardous occupation. This also applies to liberal academics who advocate for policies they and their families are detached from.

[@davidcravatta386]

Excellent pts

[@knpstrr]

+Tom Dalton The real point in the workplace safety for example, is that is it even the government's duty to be in charge of such things in the first place, should the government even have the power to be able to enact such regulations? Beyond that, Milton would argue (and has argued this point) that threat or resultant lawsuit(s) levied upon a company for poor working conditions would give incentive to have a more safe workplace. The fines just need to be higher than the cost of enacting said safety measures for this to occur.

[@BLUEGENE13]

he makes a moral argument against taxing for providing schooling, but he forgets to mention that all taxing is morally wrong.

[@reneburger4317]

We need police, basic health care, roads... to maintain societal quality. All other taxes are robbery, essentially.

[@toddbellows5282]

Milton didn't foresee the tremendous inflation in educational costs that are caused by student loan programs.

[@rogerdodger4212]

Those student loan programs you are referring to are government based. The federal government created the student debt crisis by creating federal student loan programs which place no accountability on the individual who takes the loan or the group giving the loan. When the government gets involved, they always fuck up the economy. The student loan crisis is a stark reminder of how the government caused the "great recession."

[@KREllis-vr1ix]

@@rogerdodger4212 I would say ALL responsibility is placed onto the borrower since bankruptcy isn't an option.

[@rogerdodger4212]

@@KREllis-vr1ix That doesn't matter when the government creates a crisis then provides the solution to said crisis in the form of bailouts, aka debt forgiveness. Liberals blame the banks for their mistakes and claim to be the heroes when they provide their shitty solutions. EDIT: Also, there is no declaring bankruptcy because there is no means to seek redress. I.E. the government can't repossess the education the person received or sue to obtain the payment by other means.

[@irone93]

Due to government subsidized loans

[@biggerisbetta]

literally australia tho

[@H1TMANactual]

"Government does not cause affluence. Citizens of totalitarian countries have plenty of government and nothing of anything else" - PJ O'Rourke

[@jimmysanders4813]

Hard work and sacrifice have produced some of the most amazing people throughout history.The fight and the struggle develop our character that no government can honestly shape.

[@andrewmcquade6848]

There is a lot about Milton that I disagree with from my own experience in business and in education. However, his skill in arguement, his clarity of thinking, and his ability to explain complex concepts in simple easy-to-understand terms is a credit to his professionalism. Whether you're a right winger or left winger, authoritarian or anarchist, I think there is a lot to respect the man for. And, indeed, a lot to take issue with

[@AdmiralPrice]

+Andrew McQuade I in turn deeply respect your ability to deeply respect the strengths of a man you disagree with. That is the cornerstone of civil debate and society, and is, unfortunately, dying out. We've become ideologues before thinkers, partisan loyalists before Americans (in my country's case). The ability to respect, listen to, and compromise with someone one deeply disagrees with is increasingly becoming a quality of a bygone age.

[@armandoc.3150]

@@AdmiralPrice Forreal when you just wanna have a discussion people turn it into a debate. It becomes a war to declare who is the winner and who is the loser instead of just understanding what makes us have the opinion we do whether we agree or not is irrelevant but finding a way we can comprise should always be the goal. In this election I hope people really understand not to hate eachother for who we vote for because the way I see it is that each candidate represents a personality of this country and we need to respect our differences and really think about what's best for everyone and especially the kids to determine our future.

[@rogerdodger4212]

@@armandoc.3150 I think the only problem with that stems from the problem of enforced ideals. When one party has control they enshrine their personal beliefs in law and force those beliefs on others. That is primarily where the largest part of the animus between the parties originates. I think the only way we can coexist ideologically is to allow each other to think and act for ourselves as we choose and to keep the government out of individuals' lives. The problem is that neither party really wants that.

[@rockwithyou2006]

curious to know what those things are

[@hieronymusboss7705]

LOL who cares about your "experiences"? My experiences, conversely, line up very well with Friedman's views. Surely you, someone who says he often disagrees with Friedman, would want me to put my bias aside and look at the facts? And so should you.

[@mrmaciejm]

I am a big fan of Milton!

[@Bobby.Kristensen]

I love Milton Friedman.

[@Bobby.Kristensen]

+monty tout What the hell are you talking about?

[@williamnewton9232]

+monty tout Take Obama's Nobel Prize too

[@DemonsCrest1]

+Greedy Imp FREE @ Google Play *What the hell are you talking about?* Yea, I don't get monty tout's post either. Probably a socialist/feminist.

[@DemonsCrest1]

monty tout *wrote "What the hell are you talking about? Yea, I don't get monty tout's post either. Probably a socialist/feminist."* *Well I can understand your post and can see that you are probably a Conservative Christian bigot. Feel free to correct me if I've misjudged you.* *MAJOR FAIL PEANUT HEAD!* *THANKS FOR PLAYIN'* *INSERT ANOTHER QUARTER TO TRY (and fail) AGAIN!* Not a christian or a conservative. Just someone who opposes a political ideology that *only* pushes for "gender equality" in instances where women are "disadvantaged" (and men are "advantaged") and *never* in instances where women are "advantaged" (and men are "disadvantaged"). A political movement that *always* advantages one group over another is not a movement that is interested in "equality" but one that is interested in supremacy. I am not a bigot, just someone who opposes hateful and hypocritical belief systems.

[@DemonsCrest1]

monty tout *Okay, now I get it. You're one of those loser "Male Rights Advocates."* *What's an example of an instance where women are advantaged and men are disadvantaged?* *I'm not saying there aren't any - but as a MRA I'm sure you could give examples, right?* Feminism is a political ideology that fights for 'equality' by systematically vilifying men in order to justify hatred and encourage discrimination against them. Feminism is 100% sexism against men, and this is the *only* thing that feminism ever does. Imagine for a moment that it was females who had a shorter life expectancy than males, that it was females who had more health problems than males, and that the majority of health resources were being spent on male health instead of female health. Imagine that it was females who were less likely to be given help as victims of rape or domestic violence than males, that it was females who were four times more likely to commit suicide than males, that it was females who were falling behind in education compared to males, and that it was females who were disadvantaged in courts and society when compared to males. Feminists would be claiming that all these things are clear evidence of a society discriminating against women, and would be pushing for all sorts of policies to make females 'equal' to males. However, when these inequalities *favor* the female, feminists don't seem to take notice any of these "gendered issues". If feminists were really interested in 'equality' between men and women, then they would be focusing on these *fundamental* forms of gender inequality. Instead, they focus on issues only affecting women. They focus on the "gender wage gap"; a myth that has been disproven countless times by economists from all over the world (proven false as early as 1971 by economist Thomas Sowell, as seen in "Thomas Sowell Dismantles Feminism and Racialism in under 5 Minutes" on youtube). They focus on "rape culture", a term that feminists appropriated in 1975 from a documentary exposing the issue of rape in male prisons, and now use it to exclusively hype up the issue of women being raped in modern society, despite the fact that incidents of this crime have been steadily declining since the 1980s. They focus on the "gender STEM gap"; the fact that there are fewer women in STEM fields, and never focus on the "gender education gap"; the fact that boys are falling behind girls in school, the fact that men make up only 43% of all college graduates, and the fact that men have been a minority in colleges since 1979. Feminists do not care about "gender equality". They only care about advantaging women and disadvantaging men. Feminism is nothing but a hypocritical man-hating political movement.

[@mrtimjitsu]

I love how people can come up with so many justifications for STEALING!!!!! I wonder if they justify rape and murder too

[@stevohein2515]

mrtimjitsu Friedman supported a negative income tax policy, the most pure example of a redistribution of income. Perhaps you raving Randian types should stick to listening to her or Stefan "child snatcher" Molyneux

[@SONicNRG]

mrtimjitsu yes, they just blame poverty and keep the argument circular; of course, they own terms like 'poverty' so no conservative using it knows what he's talking about.

[@SONicNRG]

no, they call murder of babies in womb a 'medical procedure'

[@artemiasalina1860]

"I wonder if they justify rape and murder too" They do. Just think about what people say when someone they don't like goes to jail. "Just wait til he meets up with Bubba!"

[@DrCruel]

MURDER: "You can't make a successful omelette without breaking a few eggs." -Vladimir Lenin RAPE: ""Red Army soldiers don't believe in 'individual liaisons' with German women," wrote the playwright Zakhar Agranenko in his diary when serving as an officer of marine infantry in East Prussia. "Nine, ten, twelve men at a time - they rape them on a collective basis." ' ( . . . ) "Our soldiers' behaviour towards Germans, particularly German women, is absolutely correct!" said a 21-year-old from Agranenko's reconnaissance detachment. A number seemed to find it amusing. Several German women recorded how Soviet servicewomen watched and laughed when they were raped. " www.theguardian.com/books/2002/may/01/news.features11

[@DistinguishedMenofCulture]

You can either agree with Milton Friedman, or you will be wrong so go over into the corner and sit there in your wrongness and contemplate your degree of being wrong

[@VictorHarrys]

As Dr. Friedman pointed so many times: What causes economic collapse? Government intervention distorting the market. Take a look at what enabled the bubbles that push us further and further towards total economic collapse. We can blames big businesses, bankers, wall street, the rich white man, etc. But when you look to the root, it was the government that planted the seed and enabled the bubbles to grow.

[@Andybaby]

As always, Friedman's logic is flawless.

[@BigMathis]

Not exactly true. The government wastes a much smaller percentage but when poor people receive free money, they lose their incentive to work hard.

[@Lukas4182]

"it's the hardest thing ever to pass legislation to increase tuition fees" That quote hasn't aged well. Tuition fees nowadays are ridiculous

[@fuckinggoolglemangwtfiswro4000]

The problem is that stundent loans don't function like reglar loans.

[@willn5213]

@@fuckinggoolglemangwtfiswro4000 yea atleast with other loans its going towards an object of value that can be sold back if things get too bad financially

[@samuelcamachopalencia5737]

I think that what he meant is that no sane politician would ever run a campaign saying "increase the cost of college!" And that is very much true. Everyone is running on the premise of lowering the cost of university, at least publicly. While tuition fees (as a college student, they're ridiculous) are high af, they always campaign on lowering it, even if they don't.

[@Logan753-g1v]

They never passed legislation to increase tuition fees. What they did is pass legislation creating a federal student loan program for the good intention of “educating everybody”. Once universities realized that 18 year olds can borrow an unlimited amount of money to pay for schooling, universities shot tuition fees to the sky. As long as someone is willing to give young people loans with an unlimited magnitude, the cost of education will be expensive.

[@chuckmason7930]

@@samuelcamachopalencia5737 mean it? He practically spelled it out.

[@aureate]

You are correct. A relatively freer market would benefit everyone, but the "bad" people are geniuses of manipulation. It doesn't matter what system you impose, they'll find a way to ruin it in their favor. If we can preserve the sanctity of the internet, we can save ourselves.

[@andrewbudiman1310]

that intro song sounds like it belongs in a kids spy movie.

[@samuelking4723]

It’s not the benefit of the poor at the expense of the rich, it’s the expense of the poor at the expense of the rich.

[@_7.8.6]

Pretty honest assessment

[@thekizerapproach]

Nice name

[@generatordoc]

Can you imagine Frieeman's response to the Financial Services modernization act of 1999? The Gramm Leach Bliley Act made it possible for Commercial and investment banks coexist in one company...the main and primary beneficiary of this act was Citicorp and one of the majority shareholders in Citicorp today.....Brian Leach.

[@arcad1an292]

If you listen closely and add up all the things that Mr. Friedman teaches us, you'll see how we got to the point where there are either the very rich or the very poor. And you'll come to the conclusion that it's not the free market that causes this, but big government coercion.

[@davidcopperfield2278]

Capital reproduces itself, or what is called in simple language money makes money. Every person has basic needs as housing and eating. Housing and eatings cost the same for everyone, yet proportionally, for the same individual housing and food costs the richer PROPORTIONALLY a lesser percentage of his capital than the poorer one. Can you follow ? If I work for minimal wage I spend most of my money on rent and food but if you are a billionaire, lets say you dont invest in a clever way and simply put your 1 billion into a swiss bank with 2 percent , your billion becomes 1,02 billions , so your housing business has just grown by 50 houses in one year ! my immobile business has grown by 0 houses this year ! In what schoolclass do you learn exponential courves in the US, cause I m really wondering why the fuck i m explaining this to you ?! So it is only a question of time until the housing and the food markets will monopolize in the hands of a few , the house and the land owners !! Everybody else becomes house and land renters !! From the point of view of the free market since price fixing cant be forced the house and land owners are free to fix such rent prices that the rest of the people will have to work 80 hours a week just to have where to live and what to eat ! In fact, the owners are actually FREE to put such prices that no matter how much you work no one will be able to afford nor housing neither food ! And nothing can be done about it , they are free to choose whether they whish to put affordable prices on their products, or unaffordable ! Do I really need to explain to you how monopolies naturally accure and what the consequences of those are ?! If thats the result you wanna get, a society where a minority is free to decide about the life or death of majorities , I wish you and all the others free market lovers to manage to infiltrate the upper 0,01 percent ! good luck !

[@davidcopperfield2278]

man I am re-reading your comment and wondering if you are really that stupid or doing it on purpose ? Wealth if not regulated always monopolizes itself ! Only forced regulation (redistribution) can forbid it to monopolize ! And you are saying that disproportions between rich and poor aggravates because of the regulations and redistributions ! Are you fucking nuts ! This is not even math ! this is commen sense !

[@gpecaut1]

David Copperfield partially correct, but far from any real outcome. That money the billionaire has invested creates capital for investment in business. That creates jobs. At some point there becomes more jobs than there is labor. That means to get employees, wages must go up. That helps the population as a hole. If he has control of most of production and does not produce increasing the economy, then he will have a pile of worthless cash, as the market will just continue around him. Even if he could gain every last bit of cash, the markets will just function around him. Be it by barter, or a new form of money. The beauty of Capitalism is that it self corrects. The discomfort of Capitalism is that it swings back and forth, is hard, if not impossible to control, and although it will never equally distribute wealth, it is the best to create wealth. Only in a free Capitalist society can a person grow from the bottom quintle to the top in a life time. And as the old saying goes a fool and his money are soon parted. Earn what you own Own what you earn

[@Shaft-Industries]

WISE ARCADIAN Are you inferring that there is not much of a middle class? What out of curiosity defines the really rich and the really poor if you could assign annual wage dollar amounts to this?

[@IIIMajesty]

And because of technological progress, it's now easier than ever to self improve and get middle-class income.

[@mustang607]

He makes such reasonable and logic arguments you just know he could never have been a politician.

[@romekk3975]

I would like to become Robin Hood. I would steal from the rich and give it all to myself as I identify as poor.

[@dangeroreilly2028]

I get it! That's a very old W.C. Fields joke.

[@jimmysanders4813]

That is the premise of the corrupt lie of black lives matter.

[@lordnate2000]

Assuming everything your culture does is the best, that works. If not, then it doesn't. Also, the effectiveness of education is based on the effectiveness of the educational system. When the system regulated, then it is based on the quality of regulators. Everything always comes back to the quality of leadership. Like I said, a monarchy is fine, if you have a great royal family. That is not true in most monarchies, as great leadership is rare.

[@1jackal1]

Regarding taxes and welfare programs, it seems Mr Friedman is purposefully failing to mention that people in higher income brackets pay higher percentage of tax than lower earners. So it's not a case of one section of society paying more than another, they pay more or less the same.

[@novuml670]

there should be a flat tax

[@kingmatt2563DABEST]

Quick question has the Progress party abandoned its Capitalist beliefs.

[@luciascheffelvazquez998]

I guess that what Milton is trying to say is that the return on taxes of social programs is higher for middle income classes than for poorer classes. Because both social classes benefit equally of the program but the percentage paid of the tax relatively to their earnings is higher for poor people. I guess the point missing here is he is not taking into account that for example equal welfare (health, transport, infrastructure, public services) among classes provides a much desirable context for economic growth and social stability.

[@gpecaut1]

kingmatt2563 yes

[@gpecaut1]

Lucía Scheffel Vázquez remember these are old clips. There were not the grants then that are available now. Back then you really had to earn any scholarships. Student loans were much more restricted, and many of them required collateral. Today it is easier for any poor minority to attend college than it is for most middle class students. There are grants for being poor, grants for being black, grants for being female. There are discounts for being an illeagle alien. The Rich just pay. The poor if they graduate highschool with any kind of decent grades can get into a college, the funding will be there. We have made it pay to be from a professional welfare family. We have made it pay to be a victim. And worse of all, we now punish those that save, invest, and work hard to earn there own way. Earn what you own Own what you earn

[@UnexpectedWonder]

His words were highly prophetic. These are the conditions America faces today politically and economically.

[@youngscooter6290]

Milton is my favourite economist

[@youngscooter6290]

Johannus Steinmarch his principals still apply, and that’s what counts

[@NoProbaloAmigo]

It's wholly relevant - that it is simply a myth that "more democracy" will solve a problem that needs division of powers, not populism.

[@mikestevens1728]

Im barely able to support myself. And my taxes have to go lazy ass people that dont want to try and improve there situations

[@sfjeff1089]

The real point here is, you have two separate money pools that intermingle. The consumption pool feeds into wages for further consumption, capital investment for expansion, and profits. The capital pool feeds into new industry development and provides supplemental funding for capital investment as needed. If the consumption pool is starved, then you are faced with an unpleasant choice of shrinking the economy or inflating the currency with leverage against you.

[@jimhughes1070]

Yep....

[@libertarian500]

One of my favorite Econmist!!!!

[@Degenevesting]

This guy called it years ago. Now a degree is practically worthless because the marketplace is saturated with graduates.

[@scottab140]

The upper class doesn't pay for Well-Fair Programs. They only pay dividend and long term investment taxes. People don't realize that most, not all , of the upper class to contribute heavily in charity foundations from the taxes they would have paid and are smart enough to contribute to society as they see fit versus allowing and trusting the government to spend wisely..

[@rodrigo445678]

+scottab140 You can't be more right!

[@rodrigo445678]

monty tout It worked in the US until the Fed came out. Worked on Sweden, Singapore, Hong Kong. France, Germany and the UK they all had capitalist economies in the past. No social democracy has created a rich society. Today's social democracies have a capitalist past. Socialism hasn't produced a single dollar in economic prosperity.

[@rodrigo445678]

monty tout Your knowledge is impressive... Show one example of a successful socialist society? . Scandinavian countries became rich thanks to free markets. Specially Sweden. You should study a little history. It must be humiliating that someone younger than you can expose your stupidity. If what you are saying is true, then explain Sweden and Hong Kong economic prosperity. Hong Kong didn't had any important natural resources, but even so they managed to became the second richest society in Asia. And you are showing your ignorance once again. The actual system isn't in the middle. You can't be half-free. Either you respect liberty or you oppress it. Today's system has only little aspects of capitalism. It's not capitalist to have a Federal Reserve. It's not capitalist to bail out big banks and car companies. It's not capitalist to have the highest corporate taxes among the developed countries. It's not capitalist to have a broken welfare system. It's not capitalist to regulate every single industry there is. It's not capitalist to manipulate the value of the dollar. We are closer to socialism and we are failing. 17 trillion in debt are destroying the economy. . Sweden's social democracy dream lasted less than 30 years. Now they are privatizing many public institutions to improve supply and quality.

[@neo.616]

+Rod96 wrote "And you are showing your ignorance once again." (Fans: that's like being called stupid by someone drawing daisies at the local autism clinic)

[@neo.616]

+Rod96 wrote "The actual system isn't in the middle." Then how do you explain all the social programs in America like Social Security, Welfare, Medicare, Food Stamps, Auto insurance, Life insurance, Homeowner's insurance, police and fire departments, city and state utility departments, and on and on. You sure do miss a lot of stuff. Maybe when you get older ... nevermind. Conservatives tend to get more stupid with time. I don't see why you would be any exception.

[@c20995]

Who is this guy? He's brilliant. Why haven't I heard of him before? I went to college, I haven't seen any economics or social books authored by him in any class. No mainstream media covers him, conservative or liberal.

[@jimhughes1070]

That's right... Once you make the next leap, and the next.. The invitations to family gatherings will become rare😂🤣😎... Humans without consciences are pure evil... They can steal your Liberty, and make you think your life is going to be better😂

[@dargon1084]

Forgive me for being blunt and out of context but the first 15 seconds sounds alot like what softcore porn sounds like

[@bajskorvaren]

one thing he is not saying, is that the bottom 25% doesnt pay nearly as much taxes as the rest, so having 5% going to college still makes it worth it

[@merchantsailor]

doesn't matter all the fantasy theories of how economies should work, the hard sad truth is human nature is failed. and steps have to be taken to offset the excessives of hoarding all the things that are precious to life.

[@knpstrr]

+merchantsailor like Ferrari's

[@skaruts]

What's wrong with ferraris? Each ferrari that is sold gets food on the tables on a whole bunch of people. Thanks to the magnates that are willing to buy them. Seems like the free market has a way of redistributing wealth, which makes socialist wealth distribution plans unjustified and useless.

[@hamnchee]

Thinking that rich people hoard money is ignorant. What good is hoarded money? Money is only valuable in that it can be exchanged for goods and services. They spend that money, why else would they want it? That spending is what perpetuates an economy. You say "how dare he buy a yacht, what a waste!". You might as well be saying "how dare all these blue collar middle class folks get jobs in the yacht factory, at the boat repair shops, at the the boat parts manufacturing plants, and how dare anyone follow their dream to be hired by a billionaire as a boat captain, hiring deck crews, maintenance crews, chefs, etc?"

[@jimgallagher5902]

Nonsense... all of what you say...nonsense. And you presumably meant to write, "human nature failed", and no one hoards things, so quit making things up.

[@jimhughes1070]

Yes... The argument of every good communist... less freedom

[@NoProbaloAmigo]

Which is why Friedman was for the lowest central government spending possible and competitive markets. The most effective way to divide power among business interactions is competition - meaning that the "buying" of force to hamper competition is minimized by the self interest of others.

[@PFB1994]

Is this guy joking? The people in the middle are most effective at political activity? Seriously? Is he for real? The richest dominate the political activity, you don't find many people making it to Congress who previously worked a 46,000 a year job.

[@PFB1994]

Which means the middle people have no power whatsoever, they have to choose between ultra wealthy person one or ultra wealthy person two.

[@PFB1994]

There's no choice, we are sold the 2 party system with millions and billions in ad spending. How can people have a choice, when they can't even get the message from a libertarian party or green party, for example. Someone with some good ideas can't just run for office, they have to find ways to raise money - and the only way to raise a lot of money is to say what billionaires like to hear.

[@Dogboy1960]

He's not just "serous" ....he's exactly CORRECT!! Middle class pays virtually NOTHING. AT least at the Federal level you certainly don't. By the time a family of 4 earning $100,000/year deducts all the child care stuff, mortgage interest deductions, and the exemptions they get just for having 4 breathing people in their home the bill from the IRS is remarkably small. Then there are all the programs from education, to medicare and social security....... all of it designed to benefit them more than anyone wealthy or poor.

[@Ottuln]

***** You have to be a party member and pay for your own campaign during the primaries. Primary campaigns can run into several million dollars, so good luck with the fund raising as an anyone.

[@garymorrison4139]

Of course, Milton would rather bite his tongue off than acknowledge the existence of a class structure. He uses the term middle class but in the next breath denies the existence of society itself beyond the market The capitalist utopia that Milton spent his life advocating for was not adapted to the available social world but housed his model of an antisocial superman dwelling in a mythic political and historical vacuum. The heroic narrative that forms the subtext of Friedman's idealization of the market might be adaptable to the format of a comic book or a proto-fascist mass movement but performs poorly as anything but an alibi for a two class model of society. Milton's Reagan era supply side economics were in the end, marginalized by an inherent inability to conceptualize the social ills it creates coupled with a naive if doctrinaire political incompetence at dealing with them. He deployed the rhetoric of economic freedom to obstruct the exercise of political liberty by the majority through the available institutions of Democracy that remain our best hope of rationally facing the responsibilities imposed by the demands of justice equity and equality that the market has proven time and again incompetent to fulfill.

[@mezkitsu]

-Smirks- My friend played that game. He turned off the option for elections and public support and played as a dictator. Within a year his country was perfect with no problems of any kind. I find it ironic that the only way to win in a game of democracy is to disable democracy. Just like in real life, hm?

[@MaskedMarvyl]

LOL! Leave it to Friedman to make Robin Hood into a villain. Next up in the Friedman series: Why Scrooge, an innocent job creator, was victimized by Tiny Tim...

[@martinwhite7053]

Years ago my eldest Grandson was reading "A Christmas Carol" and I helped him write his essay on the book. I had to say that Scrooge wasn't a crook, he was scrupulously honest in fact. I concluded that he was a mean minded individual with no empathy and no hint of altruism. Had I know about Milton Friedman I would have used him as an example. At least Scrooge had an opportunity to make amends and to admit that his values were screwed.

[@TheGeneralOfWar]

Friedman didn't do anything here but point out FACTS, namely where the money goes in gov welfare programs. Does speaking truth offend you if it doesn't line up with what you want to believe? If you people truly gave a shit about the poor, you'd want to know if gov welfare was going to the upper class instead of the poor. But instead you attack him for pointing it out.

[@gpecaut1]

The Clinton's make millions off of helping the poor. The only question is, can you actually find anyone ever helped by the Clinton Foundation, other than those that work for it.

[@skaruts]

He didn't make robin hood into a villain. The robin hood myth is a a myth based on the misconception that robin hood stole from the rich and gave to the poor, hence the name The Robin Hood myth. He's not making robin hood a villain, he's making the state a villain. The Robin Hood myth is just the name that's used for referring to the excuses politicians use to take money from people. And that's a misconception because in reality Robin Hood didn't stole from the rich to give to the poor, he actually took the taxes that were stolen from people and gave them back to people. He was pretty much someone willing to fight against the thieving tyrants.

[@VIKDR1]

Robin hood didn't live in a Capitalist society, he lived in a feudal one. The difference must be understood. It was the government that stole Robin Hood's money, making him poor. The "rich" was both the government, and the people they supported. Pretty much if you were rich, it was because you were part of the Government, or got favors from them. If you look at the original stories of Robin Hood, "give to the poor" wasn't part of it. That was added over 100 years later.

[@sebleaper8491]

It's a shame Friedman didn't live to see the Great Recession in 2008. It would have been interesting to see how he'd justify the corporate collusion and rate fixing that occurred in the private sector. It would also be interesting to hear his thoughts on his old friend Alan Greenspan admitting to being wrong about the deregulation of the banks. Also, why is it that the lowest earners in society tend to receive fewer benefits due to their living shorter lives? Is it due to less healthy lifestyles because higher quality food is more expensive? Is it because the fear of not being able to pay the bills drives somebody to smoke or drink even if they can't afford it? Is it because they were brought up by parents who smoked and drank? Is it because of low quality state schooling or unaffordable private schooling leaving people less well educated about health? Now, I'm by no means justifying the adoption of life-shortening habits like smoking and I largely support the argument of individual choice and responsibility in these matters. However, the causal links between income inequality and these sorts of habits cannot be denied. Life at the bottom is hard and not it's not because of paying small amounts of tax. Individualism does not liberate all individuals. Friedman is using a negative effect of the system he proposes as a criticism of the system he opposes. This is cray cray.

[@marja70]

Seb Leaper There newer was a 'deregulation of banks'. The banks are gvt sponsored and protected business. They are so heavily regulated and subsidized that they are not part of free capitalism. Study how banks are 'capitalized' through murky gvt financial operations every time they get into trouble.

[@1man1bike1road]

+Seb Leaper the government is bank sponsored not the other way round

[@lhanso20]

He would never try to justify that.

[@jimhughes1070]

Never.. not even once have I heard the good professor justify wickedness😮... Human nature cannot be avoided... That's why government does not belong in business at all... It's none of their business😂

[@pwngaynoobs]

All I said was that subsidized education doesn't hurt the poor. Even if they don't use it, because they don't pay taxes it doesn't affect them

[@StopFear]

I am so sick and tired of all these students here in California who go to protests and demand that school education be free. They refuse to go to "state" schools or community colleges that have lots of free space and are cheap, they only want to go expensive hard to get in universities. and they demand government of CA pay for it

[@JohnKpl]

I don't know what it was like in Friedman's time, but from what I observe it's the opposite. The middle class loses the most from government programs. It is at her expense (taxes) that money is given to the poor, through the government and the rich

[@gregedwards3533]

6:43 you know you are good when Bucky Fuller is in the audience.

[@Jgbo25]

Everyone who holds a negative opinion. Take a macro econ theory class. He is undeniably correct

[@darthhodges]

Any politician who claims to be Robin Hood is actually Prince John. Robin Hood didn't steal from merchants or big businessman, he stole from nobles, the government. The bad guy in the movie "Die Hard: With a Vengeance" (who steals government owned gold) has more in common with Robin Hood than any politician.

[@gadget73]

A democracy can be described as two wolves and a sheep deciding what to have for lunch. You can see the problem in this.

[@anthonylimon8819]

One can't compare the poor of the Roman Empire to the modern poor without sounding paranoid.

[@shawnsnow6413]

This didn't age well. Post secondary education provides little to no financial assistance to the middle class now. If your parents are $1 above the poverty level then saddle up for 40k in student debt, while the dirt poor and minororities groups get to experience college for free regardless of academic performance.

[@markarmage3776]

That just means you have horrible politicians. It doesn't mean that the ideas are wrong. It means that your people need to get smarter and vote in more competent people.

[@dragknuckle]

The original version of Robin Hood had him stealing from Prince John because his taxes were too high.

[@ghirardellichocolate201]

Rich can pay, poor can't. Say poor and rich pay for your education this way creating a balance in the economy, and everyone can get an education, poor or rich.

[@redliner90x]

Works for the Nordic countries. But hey, what do they know, they one of the happiest, most educated, and prosperous countries of the world.

[@ManiTati]

What he says is exactly the argument to be made for higher taxes for the higher classes, and fully state supported education. He can't say that the state benefits the rich if the rich were to pay much more in income taxes than the poor. As they pay, in most developed countries

[@mezkitsu]

"You can't get something out of nothing" Well done, basic physics. That doesn't mean that you have to pay for it. Now it may cost time, but it doesn't need to cost money. Free education is an absolute requirement for any society built on merit. The process and any required funding for it is covered through other means. What is a "lifelong academic type"?

[@kschanchal]

The problem with the logic is that education is considered a commodity to be sold to those who can afford it, and not as a necessity for every citizen. If you look at this is another perspective. We want to give the eligible candidates i.e. people with greater skills access to the best education so that they can contribute better to the society.

[@Grafknar]

Pure Democracy is three wolves and a sheep deciding what's for dinner.

[@bondurango]

And, the opposite, no Democracy, is three sheep & a wolf telling the sheep he's a vegetarian.

[@spartan2600]

I agree with you in general, but there are a few quibbles I have. In its modern era, Singapore never put Friedman's policies into practice, the government has always had an extremely dominant role in the economy. Consequently, Singapore has one of the highest living standards in the world.

[@gigiclink]

No, it's exactly because NO government can be run "perfectly" that it should be kept small to minimize the damage it can do. Think on that a minute. Maybe you'll be able to figure it out eventually.

[@mezkitsu]

Um. Just because democracies rule by the majority and enforce order based on their whims, this does not mean other governments do. I live in a monarchy and my government isn't enslaving or violating of my rights.

[@sfjeff1089]

(cont) When the entire working class loses money consumption has to go down or prices have to come down, and they don't control prices. Further if the entire working class as an aggregate has incomes that go down, that also doesn't mean that they stopped working as hard. It means that they became less able as a class to negotiate pay based on their work. It would be a shame to stop making nice things because we are not able to defend the negotiating leverage of our working class.

[@invernessfan3017]

The government should subsidise public services and provide redistribution from the rich to the working and middle class. I support equality, and stopping poverty.

[@notloki3377]

reminds me of an old joke. robin hood: i took from the rich to give to you, the poor. peasant: wow! i'm rich! robin hood: you're what.

[@DirtyDirtracer2006]

"As I said before, we do not have a tax system, our education system is funded through a variety of other sources, primarily through government-run services." And what the hell do you suppose pays for these services? TAXES What bloody country do you live in anyway? And what part of what I said was a fallacy? Kinder and better spoken does not mean correct. And how do you suppose education is free? It still costs money to build schools and pay for teachers.

[@MasterOfSparks]

The 2nd time I played it I did everything that I thought was wrong. Ran it like a conservative would, I crashed the economy and was a real dick. But the religious groups LOVED me. That's when I first theorized that the religious would rather live in a poor country because its easier to recruit into religion when things aren't going very well. If people get too comfortable they don't turn to religion. And that upsets the churches.

[@danacoleman4007]

Gatekeeper. Consider this: wealthy people and corporations get you to go into massive amounts of debt so that they'll do you the favor of hiring you to pay it back. All the while with the main interest of you making them a ton of money. It's pretty sick.

[@sfjeff1089]

"you cant judge the Great Depression years starting AFTER the stock market collapse and INCLUDE the collapse in the end of the Bush years." Point taken, but it is really not that unfair to include a crash with the economic conditions that caused it. The economy was steadily hollowed out over the period and replaced by asset bubbles. Some people were estimating that the financial and real estate sectors hit 40% of the economy by 2007, but I don't have a good source on that ATM.

[@jimhughes1070]

I know the moderately small home builder I was working for had four and a half million dollars worth of inventory sitting still.. when she finally had to stop giving me house plans... Interest rate skyrocketed... Practically overnight... That's the Fed😢 shutting down the housing bubble... That was created by... The government😂

[@jefflittle8913]

@@jimhughes1070 The housing bubble was created by Reaganomics as part of the everything bubble. If consumption dollars are capped at a certain level and investment dollars go to infinity then every single asset class has people bidding up each dollar of earnings higher and higher. It is a nice cocaine rush as your house price goes up but because income from asset price increases are fundamentally a buffering action on income lost in the form of wages it is a net negative. If the home building industry were (in the past) subject to Walmartization then we would have hit Great Depression 2 a long time ago.

[@SpaceObake]

the GOP has conveniently forgotten this lecture......

[@mwangikimani3970]

I was making a point (I wouldn't advocate for slavery). If you view labor as a capital input (like an ox or donkey), the model still stands. As long as the market for these capital inputs is free market. The cost (food, shelter etc.) of servicing this capital will be called "interest". The model still stands perfectly. The irony is that most wages are so low as to be considered just "interest" on capital. How much wealth does your typical worker stash away?

[@sfjeff1089]

" The New Deal was a failure. There was a double dip in '37!" The double-dip was caused by raising interest rates to 7%, balancing the budget, and raising taxes all at the same time. They reverted the first two, left the third, and it recovered amazingly quickly. The 10% average growth rate included the recession!!

[@Dasein2005]

Yeah, that theory about paying for education really turned out well. Not. Friedman is an unmitigated disaster.

[@chrisminblkdiamond]

I worked for a loaf of bread a week, and the government takes all but one slice. It then gives half a slice to someone who makes less than half a slice a week. It keeps the rest to "operate" within its budget which they set for themselves. Where do I live?

[@chrisminblkdiamond]

@@davespanksalot8413 Apparently rent-free in yours.

[@theoneilovemost]

1st of all, he's talking about the poor paying for the rich when the topic is the rich paying for the poor (and either is structural classism) 2nd of all, the reason the rich live longer is because health in this country depends on money

[@johnlinehan8564]

In Chicago, an alderman put in for a grant to reconstruct the elementary schools that were located below the L trains, cause the noise of the trains were effecting the childrens hearing as they passed by. So the city was granted 6 million to sound proof the schools. But with ALL federal programs, by the time it got down to helping the kids, there was ONLY $ 250,000 left in the grant. So they bought ear plugs for all the kids. Sad but true. There’s govt in a nutshell

[@mezkitsu]

When I speak of merit in government I mean the method of employment. For example, if you wish to become a minister of medicine then you must be a doctor with one of the highest grades in the country. If education was paid for, then only the rich would be able to afford the highest rated academies. Therefore all education must be free and of the same high standard, otherwise we exclude the poor or those unable to find good education from government employment.

[@laxave1767]

I slowly begin to think, after watching more and more of Friedman in action, that he was a very simple mind that needed (like many economists do) to simplify the world he lived in to understand it. Edit: and I might add, had a big desire to understand that world fully, even though he wasn't cut out for it.

[@fzqlcs]

+Laxave Obviously, you know little about Milton. He has many articles in scholarly economic journals. He sought to simplify economics so the common man could understand them. He apparently failed in your case. That you are slow to think is obvious.

[@laxave1767]

fzqlcs Haha. Do you really think I don't know who Friedman was? I know he was an economist, I'm just saying that he and many many economists besides him (in fact, you could say the whole field of economics) simplified human behavior and made the claim that we act on the basis of one motivation which has been proven wrong and wrong again. So when you try to belittle me with your ''you haven't read Friedman's wikipedia page'', maybe take it easy next time. I was broader point than just he's an amateur.

[@EchoesfromtheCosmos]

The sad thing is that socialists will look at this and say "that's why education should be completely free".

[@sfjeff1089]

Lowering interest rates to incentivize consumption only works if it causes assets of the 99% to go up in value or if it encourages business expansion. It has very low leverage when interest rates are already near zero. Incidentally, interest rates heading toward 0 is the natural consequence of moving large numbers of dollars outside the radius of consumption (ie. making poor poorer and rich richer).

[@foxtrot870]

That is to assume a majority of low-income residents end up going to college. The transfer rates show a very different story. The motivations are usually monetary and are mostly unrelated to discrimmination but that doesn't change the impact. Perhaps we should allow ignorance to be the ultimate defense for our actions? Ask yourself what is greed. Keeping for yourself? or taking from someone else for you?

[@DeadEndFrog]

6:20 there is an incentive to force the rich to pay for the poor however. And there is even an incentive for rich people to do so themselves too, if they don't want to live in an uninformed democracy..

[@maximemeis111]

What was interesting is the Friedman started more on the left-wing. Then he looked at data and saw that socialism wasn't working but that free-market was. I think that what set him apart from many economists of today's world (for example Krugman) is that he works on reality. Too bad he died too soon to be able to protect free-market during and after 2008.

[@bandwagon22]

Whole industries have long ago disappeared. Friedman’s Monetary Fascism has burnt through most of what remains of the middle class. Seeking fuel, the fire has spread to the upper middle class and the lower middle class. Small businesses and Unions are consumed in the flame. Even the ranks of the finance industry were offered up to the god of money. Millions of recently dispossessed upper middle class and the lower ranks of the wealthy find themselves without meaningful work and dark prospects

[@sfjeff1089]

(continued) Meanwhile if the capital pool is starved, you get all the problems that people associate with socialism. Whichever pool is currently leaking fastest is the one with the greatest leverage for improvement. Unfortunately, when an economy slows due to starving the consumption pool, the effect tends to feed on itself because movement from the capital pool to the consumption pool in the private arena occurs almost exclusively as a response to growth.

[@sfjeff1089]

... and the fix for oversupply differs based on whether the problem is lack of desire to consume and lack of ability to consume. For a metaphor, imagine there are 5 applicants for every job. If you are an applicant, the solution is to work hard. If you are planning the economy, the solution is more jobs. Similarly, if someone doesn't have dollars consume, then work harder. If the entire working class doesn't have dollars to consume, they can't fix that through trading with each other.

[@Hirfel]

Right on man. Trickle down economics is the myth.

[@TheTariqibnziyad]

poor people under a welfare state normally should benefit more from taxes (healthcare, education...) so no taxing the poor isnt the way to go, taxing the rest is.

[@IknowImNotCrazyYoumightbe]

he would say that is great, as long as those in the lower income brackets are not paying for those who are able to afford college themselves. What Milton is showing is how government programs, while noble in intent, often hurt or unfairly disadvantage the very people that program was trying to help.

[@mezkitsu]

I don't understand what economy has to do with education. It is also through good education that we can employ intelligent people in government.

[@fzqlcs]

Do you conclude Milton is corrupt because he does not advocate giving you something for nothing?