Mindfulness and the Dangers of Meditation

[@jamesderieg4158]

Thank you Brad for another insightful talk. I think you have really hit the nail on the head about the value of mindfulness and the potential problems with short courses and what it may throw up.

[@muho]

"Leaving your father and running away" is probably a reference to another metaphor in the Lotus Sutra: The only son of a rich father leaves the house and gets lost. Later, as a vagabond, he passes in front of his own house without noticing. His father tries to invite him inside but the son runs away afraid. He later ends up as a helping hand in the house, working there for some pocket money, until after many years, his father tells him that he had been living in his own house all the time.

[@gunterappoldt3037]

The other goes about "useful means", that is, to lure the children out of a burning house to safe them; also Lotus-Sutra (a nice work of art, at least), I suppose.

[@muho]

@@gunterappoldt3037 Yes, exactly, but I doubt that Dogen refers to that metaphor when he talks about "a son" who is "running away". The kids in the burning house metaphor did not run away from their father. Quite the opposite, they stayed inside when their father called from the outside. So he had to "lure" them outside with the promise of toys (the three vehicles).

[@gunterappoldt3037]

@@muho yes, agree, thanks!

[@HardcoreZen]

Thank you!

[@jambonsambo]

Very similar to the parable of the prodigal son from the Bible

[@wayneconner2394]

I really don't think it takes years of meditation to get into strange territory. The first zen sangha I practiced with, we were doing 40 minute sits with 10 minutes of walking at the center and I was doing about 10 minutes a day at home. Within a couple of months I was having weird sensory experiences, body dissolution, kundalini like events during sits and once an open eye psychedelic hallucination while listening to the evening Dharma talk. But thankfully I'm a fairly rational person and I had a sangha to support me if things became too difficult. People using apps are primarily alone and that is where the problem lies with the whole mindfulness movement. They market it like its the perfect panacea for modern problems, when in fact it can be quite destabilizing for some people.

[@MindBodyMantra]

beautiful and amazing. We take inspiration from you and thank you from the deepest corners of our heart.

[@HardcoreZen]

Thanks!

[@lopezb]

Excellent comments. I had that experience of one teacher (the assistant to the zen master at a sesshin) really not being able to "get it" when I expressed the weirdness I had seen. That was ok, but I just saw her limitations. I said the same thing to her teacher, and he got it immediately, and as you said, it was just an acknowledgement like "It'll be ok", but ONLY had meaning for me because I had certaunty that he really COULD relate.

[@HardcoreZen]

Yeah. That makes a huge difference!

[@gregwallace552]

I was lucky in that I was introduced to mindfulness at Spirit Rock Meditation Center by a teacher named Gil Fronsdale. He's sort of a well-known teacher who has published some translations from the Pali, one of the Dhammapada and another one called, I think, The Book of Eights. He is also an ordained Zen priest as well as a Vipassana instructor. Gil taught a course based on a sutra called the Mahasattipathana sutta, usually translated as the sutra on the four foundations of mindfulness. We spent one whole day on each foundation and it was actually quite good and we got very deep into each of the components which are body, feeling, consciousness, and dhammas. I went through that course two or three times. Eventually, I migrated to Zen but I still think it was helpful to have that training. Of course, that is completely different from what you were talking about. Mindfulness taught by less qualified teachers would definitely not be nearly as good. For most people, I don't think it would be harmful but you probably wouldn't get nearly as much out of it.

[@alanphil]

Hey Brad - this is your best talk of the day! Saying hello from ohioland.

[@HardcoreZen]

Thanks, Ohio!

[@pinkfloydguy7781]

When my mom lent me Sit Down And Shut Up in high school I skimmed it and thought the punk parts were cool but the zen parts were *fart noise* BORING! At age 30, feeling I’ve seen it all (including an unfortunate transcendental meditation phase) your books are finally hitting me just right - thanks for doing what you do Brad!

[@timothykent7285]

I almost took a TM course when I picked up Hardcore Zen :)

[@HardcoreZen]

Thank you!

[@HardcoreZen]

@@timothykent7285 Oh no!!!

[@timothykent7285]

@@HardcoreZen glad I did, it cost me about $14 as opposed to a thousand. While zazen is good for nothing, I guess nothingness is good. Though maybe I would have a sweet pompadour now like David Lynch if I had done the TM.

[@pinkfloydguy7781]

Timothy Kent not sure if the TM would be the cause or just a coincidence of the pompadour lol! Seriously, I think TM, or rather the legitimate ancient meditation practice it was stolen from, is probably really good for a lot of people when it’s taught and put into practice properly.... but just in my experience attending the Maharishi University for 2 years I have the impression that its impossible to really get those benefits when the money / personality cult aspects get in the way.

[@benhorner8430]

Zen Mind Beginner's Mind was maybe the first book I read on Zen, definitely was in the first three. That passage with breathing being like a door stood out to me too, I knew exactly what you were talking about before you finished. Recently you talked about something Dogen said, about hanging your mouth on the wall, I thought of the mouth as kind of everything that comes out of me, like all my thoughts as well (not just talking), and kind of taking that off and hanging it on the wall and looking at it during zazen. It sometimes gives me a little distance when I'm getting wrapped up in something. I think that one will stick with me the same as the swinging door, and help out occasionally. :) (Thanks!)

[@HardcoreZen]

Thank you!

It's great that every video gives a duh! Ooooh, that's what I needed to remember! - moment. Great one again. I luuuuurve the swinging door, which didn't gel when I read Suzuki Roshi and after I finish Sit down and Shut up I will have to read it again.

[@lorenacharlotte8383]

People who have not a living experience about the practice of mindfulness won’t ever be able to explain to anybody what mindfulness is about. No matter how hard they try. This is because the real (not the intelectual speculated) practice of mindfulness generates the energy of the Buddha in us. It opens the door to Buddha nature and all its qualities such as attention, concentration, alertness, awareness of what is going on in body, mind, within and around oneself. Although the energy of mindfulness has weakened in me due to laziness, lack of diligence; still can say with total confidence that mindfulness applied to daily activities, while sleeping and if necessary during sitting down in the first 10 or 20 minutes as a preparation to body and mind , it’s the most useful tool in zen practice. With the practice of mindfulness one doesn’t need any koan as the energy of mindfulness puts one in direct contact with what is there. I leave you all one of my favourite videos from my Teacher. Sit down comfortably with back upright, breath in/out in awareness and Listening all the way with attention and concentration all the way through. Important to Follow the instruction I’ve just written to have the teaching transmitted mind to mind and not intellectually. kzbin.info/www/bejne/hX6XdWeslLWCbK8

[@elfbiter]

I have called Mindfullness "diet meditation" (as in "diet cola"). As for having bad mental experience about it, Philip Martin wrote in "Zen path through depression" that meditation might not be the right method for those in deep depression before it might make things worse; he suggest consulting the doctor instead first.

[@HardcoreZen]

I agree with that. Really deep depression and zazen might be a bad mix. Then again, I never had a professional assessment of how deep my depression was at the time I began doing zazen. I suspect I'd have been put on medication if I'd been able to afford to see a psychiatrist in those days. But I had a very good teacher who had some experience himself of deep depression.

[@Tristan-watermelon]

Great that you mention Philip Martin's book, it's my favorite Zen book! Not only a self-help guide for depression, but an exploration of various aspects of Zen, written in beautiful, poetic language.

[@dibaygautam2076]

I liked the review. Just subscribed

[@ajahnpadawan8812]

On balance I think it’s a good thing that mindfulness is becoming more freely available. I do though get a bit annoyed at how it is often presented as some sort of panacea for all sorts of ills when in my experience it clearly isn’t (though it can be helpful).

[@HardcoreZen]

Yeah. Handled well it can be very useful. I just worry that the popularity of it means more instances where it's not handled well.

[@lorenacharlotte8383]

Belfastish : The teaching and practice of mindfulness has always been for free. People who paid for the teaching is because they choose to do in that way. Fancy words and intelectual philosophies are always more attractive than simple instruction and straight away practice.

[@jfay124]

Would like to see a video on ceremonies and iconography of zen from someone like you who doesn’t really believe and/do a lot of those type of things.

[@HardcoreZen]

That's an interesting idea. I've addressed that in books, but I don't think I've done a video about it.

[@Fakery]

Thanks for sharing! Love this opinion on the modern mindfulness movement. Would be very cool to connect with an actual meditative lineage in my area to truly learn mindfulness :)

[@HardcoreZen]

It's not all bad, modern mindfulness.

[@lorenacharlotte8383]

Fakery : Google for Thich Nhat Hanh and his monasteries and local centres.

Look for a Thich Nhat Hanh group: that was my gateway to Soto Zen and was/is a good introduction.

[@lorenacharlotte8383]

Melané Fahner-Botha : I’m finding the Soto very useful as a complement with Thich Nhat Hanh. Other very useful complement found is yoga.

[@nancydrmt]

This is the problem, Fakery and Brad. The Zen centre nearest me is many hours away. I practice anyway, and got enough instruction from Soto Zen and Daoist teachers to be able to offer willing participants a foundation in technique and encouragement to continue studying so we can engage in a local group practice. I think if more "modern mindfulness" teachers studied and elaborated on the historical context of the practice, it wouldn't end up as distorted. It's like the story of the Importance of the Cat in Meditation. Zen was modern mindfulness once.

[@wadecleveland9001]

2:50 to 3:30 Each one of those sixteen stages corresponds to the sixteen aspects of the four noble truths. So, with the old scriptures, you can realize the four noble truths by engaging in this meditation.

[@HardcoreZen]

It's possible!

[@martinyelverton]

Thank you. 🙏🏻

[@MetaPerspective_]

Hilarious shirt! Haha. I think you have even cooler t shirts than me?!

[@guidoramackers9414]

My own teachers opinion on (present day)mindfullnes was that it is therapeutic in nature. Meaning it has a specific goal orientation on getting rid of stress, calming the senses..a therapeutic technique. In a book about Dogens zen by thomas Cleary (rational zen) there is a phrase from a 9th century teacher warning against static goal orientation, and that was in his time.

[@maxomnicast6010]

If mindfulness is clear seeing (vipassana) i guess whats missing is concentration (samadhi) which leads to tranquility and thus a good base to chill out while beeing "mindful" of your messed up state. Cultivating mindfulness only makes you mechanical while just drowning in samadhi might make you blissed out. I guess just sitting combines these two ways...

[@gunterappoldt3037]

A reference to and/or introduction into some related traditional methods, like guan/zhî (观止), would be the books of Lu K´uan Yü (Charles Luk), I suppose.

[@SaltzM]

I’ve always wondered - were Dōgen’s written meditation instructions (e.g. fukan zazengi) brief because he meant that “this is all there is to it”, or because it’s also on top of all this existing teaching (e.g. anapanasati/the sutras) that Dōgen expected others to know? In other words is the fukan zazengi meant to be self-contained, or is it like “this is the cliffnotes version, and it should be accompanied by other more in-depth instruction from other texts or a teacher”?

[@HardcoreZen]

It's hard to be certain. But I believe they were brief because he believed that saying too much was more of a problem than saying too little. Of course, he also has some longer explications of zazen. The entirety of Shobogenzo, for example.

[@petrairene]

Mindfulness as taught by those mindfulness gurus narrows down the focus. It's the opposite of spaciousness. So it makes the mind more narrow in scope. If you want to heal, make it more expansive, give it space It can also be VERY easily misused as an emotion blocking technique, doing that may temporaritly drown out unwanted throughts and feelings but longer term it is REALLY unhealthy for your emotional life.

[@ImStuckInStockton]

Hi Brad, have you been to Tassajara or Yokoji, etc.? Did you already do a video on this? Thank you!

[@HardcoreZen]

I've been to Tassajara a lot, but never Yokoji. I've mentioned Tassajara a few times, but I've never done a video just about Tassajara. Maybe I should.

[@simeondawkins6358]

I do my own meditation i ghes its alot like zazen yet its done all the time no matter what bodys doing it creates perfect flow

[@yoganandavalle]

Contrary to what you have said, mindfulness can, indeed, retraumatize some people, especially people with psychiatric disorders like PTSD; the process of retraumatization is not like hardcore but it can be a very difficult experience. Read David Treleaven's book "Mindfulness for trauma".

[@HardcoreZen]

I'll take a look. I think that this is a big problem. People sometimes don't take meditation seriously. They think that it's just sitting quietly and, therefore, is not a big deal.

[@dallasdandigitalproduction393]

I don't have a problem with meditation practice from a secular place. Phone apps are popular today, and I think thats great.it seems like any path for people to learn to quiet themselves would be good. It's a first step through the doorway of the self. Perhaps later they would be curious enough to seek out a book or teacher on Buddhism and further their education.

[@magpiecity]

About six or seven years ago, mindfulness was everywhere.

[@jackkennard4539]

I think back in the day they had much more time so practice was full of instructions.

[@StoneShards]

The "Breathing" is a universal "heartbeat" function of deriving developmental value from relating intimately with the "other" reality. The air breathed is incidental, and relatively unimportant. Your whole body "breathes"...

[@justahumanbeing.709]

Steven Rhodes t shirts are brilliant.

[@Торез216]

Dear Brad, let me tell about my understanding of that kind of mindfulness in stylised Theravada tradition. That kind of mindfulness, you are talking about, is not more than exercise. The mindfulness in Jon Kabat Zinn tradition, (stress relieved) for example, is quasibuddhism. It shrinks your perception to a narrow corridor. It perverts the Dharma, I think. Buddhist,s mindfulness is non-clinging in a broad sense, even to own stress, body, pain, pleasure and up to own personality. We use to be mindful to the Depending origination, emptiness and so on. All of those things are not exercises but personal experience of fundamental characteristics of “reality”. We use to keep our mindfulness to that kind of vision. Dear Brad, I cannot donate your channel from my Russian reality, but I will support it with my comment and “like”.))

[@HardcoreZen]

Thank you Igor!

[@proulxmontpellier]

What's interesting is, I once took Nishijima on that text and had him observe that it never tells to count the breaths or control it. It just says "be it short or long, take it as it is". And he agreed that those interpretations that say that the practice is to control the breath are mistaken. The Sattipatthanasutta says exactly the same thing as master Dogen.

[@lorenacharlotte8383]

proulxmontpellier : Brad has picked up pieces of information here and there but he completely missed out to picking up the Thich Nhat Hanh teachings of mindfulness which is kind of strange because he was the Master per excellence introducing mindfulness to very large audiences all over the world. If Brad doesn’t know what mindfulness is out of his own practice and experience, I doubt that he can give any lucid explanation about it. He can only use reference books with citations.

[@proulxmontpellier]

@@lorenacharlotte8383 have fun dissing Brad. However, I am not absolutely certain that you understood anything of what TNH says...

[@lorenacharlotte8383]

In a way I deserve your response. Internet Zen sucks.

[@proulxmontpellier]

@@lorenacharlotte8383 Mainly, TNH is a Buddhist teacher. He may insist on mindfulness, but he also teaches the whole range of Buddhist teachings, which will put mindfulness in context. Other teachers will function in other terms, but that doesn't mean they are wrong. You have to be careful about your cultural roots. This is something I have observed: people think that having cut with their religion of origins or culture is enough. No. You have to look at your personal experience growing up in that context and do your accounts. What deserves to be kept? What deserves to be abandoned? One of the most insidious aspects of monotheistic religions is the insistence upon being right, and THEREFORE the other being wrong. That's a posture to which the ego quite easily attaches. And it is very gratifying to tell oneself, "My master is right and the others are wrong". But in Buddhism, this is not how it goes. I'll add that Brad specifically talks about COMMERCIAL mindfulness, and, once more, that is NOT what TNH teaches.

[@lorenacharlotte8383]

proulxmontpellier : TNH is a Zen Buddhist great scholar Vietnamese Teacher. If Brad or anyone else has not had the experience of practicing mindfulness, then that person can not talk about mindfulness except as a reference. The reason is very simple, mindfulness can not be transmitted without the living experience of the transmitter. That was my argument and not anything else. And yes, the Master of mindfulness in the West per excellence has been Thich Nhat Hanh .

[@wadecleveland9001]

It's called "The Great Conflagration" in the Lotus Sutra.

[@richardculbertson744]

silicon valley app-based Buddhism ... so passé

[@gra6649]

I was told, stick to, and with the practice, and the monkey mind will take care of its self. Plant the seed and as long as one does not cut down the tree, or set it on fire the fruit will appear.

[@wadecleveland9001]

How do you create the Dharmakaya in Zen?

[@HardcoreZen]

The plum tree in the garden!

[@marcebutler44]

Nice shirt!

[@HardcoreZen]

Thanks. It's sort of scary, though.

[@elederiruzkin8835]

Simply put, I would say that Buddhism acknowledges three levels of aspiration and hence three contexts of practice: 1) this life/world, 2) next life/world, 3) beyond both this and next lives/worlds. I think secularism and so-called "secular mindfulness" only acknowledges and aims, at best, at the first level of aspiration: the ease of the present.

[@danielmeister7472]

While I'm not a fan of the mc mindfulness movement myself, here's a few thoughts on your video. I'm not really sure if the Dogen quotes on mindfulness are that helpful. If you do understand what Dogen tried to say there just tell us in your words. If not then probably we won't get it either and well I didn't. It's way too cryptic and who knows what got lost in translation there and what Dogen actually really meant so many years ago in medieval Japan. Why not tell us what you think the difference between mindfulness and shikantaza is exactly. They're not that different practices depending on how one approaches mindfulness but I agree there are differences. It might be interesting to think about what these are and articulate them. When it comes to mindfulness being dangerous, I agree these things can and probably will happen at some point in ones practice. But I've seen as many people literally go nuts on zen retreats as on vipassana retreats. Whether you're doing shikantaza or mindfulness, at some point you'll get confronted with let's call it emptiness and that's usually when all the mess you have gets triggered and comes up. Yes you can say that stuff was already there and the meditation didn't produce it but it surely does trigger things that might have otherwise stayed untriggered forever. It's the same kind of thing that can happen with psychedelics I guess. Most of the zen teachers haven't been that much more helpful from what I've seen. Either they gave some kind of macho "you have to push thru this barrier" advice or what you said in the video "it's okay, it's fine, it'll pass". Now that might be somewhat helpful advice for some people who're in such a state. But if you suffered serious trauma in your past and come with that into a retreat it often isn't good enough advice. So that's another point that might be interesting to hear about. How do you deal with such cases and do you think doing zen you're less likely to hit that point or it's easier to deal with because of the environment zen provides. If so, why?

[@HardcoreZen]

It's a complicated matter. There are bad Zen teachers and good McMindfulness teachers. But, in general, I think Zen teachers had much more training in dealing with people freaking out around meditation. Before you become a Zen teacher, it is expected that you will have had such moments yourself. Therefore, you will know what worked for you and can tell someone else what you did. You'll probably also have seen it happen to other people. Thank you for your comment. I probably should make another video about this. I know I've done at least one, probably more than one.

[@Elijah_Al-Naysaburi]

Did u think about loosing five senses & stay in darkness inside & think about it 🤔 Blessings from 🇦🇪( UAE) Blessings 🌷 🌷 🌷

[@gunterappoldt3037]

Cat Stevens: "Followed by a Moon Shadow". Seems to be part of the philosophia perennis.

[@HardcoreZen]

I don't do that sort of meditation. I meditate with all the sounds and sights. But I sit in a quiet room and look at a blank wall. So what I see and hear is not very interesting. I try not to think while I am sitting, but that's difficult. Each time I notice I am having a thought, I ask myself "Who is having this thought?"

[@gunterappoldt3037]

@@HardcoreZen, recently, I read Nishitani Keiji`s "What is Religion?" (Shukyô towa nanika). You may know this book, and a composite question may be in order: Would you say that Nishitani reconstructed Dôgen`s method (name it zazen, shikantaza, zammai, wall-meditation/坐壁---or a combination of all these, and maybe more) in a correct way? As far as philosophical means apply, and especially in the last two chapters, Nishitani not only gets quite explicit, but also leans heavy on the SBGZ, and own (Za)zen-practices as ordinated member of the sangha: Would you agree that the "void" (shunyata) is pivotal/basic, as presented (that is, as a kind of transtemporal, -phenomenal, -personal "source of the way")? Would you agree that the "basho/场所" (see also: Nishida Kitarô on this topic) points to, so to speak, a basic form of consciousness (see also: M. Heidegger`s "clearing of being"), which (mystically, as "dark light, brightly enlightening itself", or so, shines up in Zammai/三昧 (see also: Bodhidharma meets King Wû of the Lìang)? What do you think of the formula "nirwana-sive-samsara, and vice versa", which seems more sino-mahayanic, than classical Buddhist? Have these half analytic, half visonary concepts value as guidelines, resp. are they "really real" significant for the zen-way (as far as it`s technically walkable, against the horizon of the Big Dao/大道, which would be "totaliter aliter", "just to give it a name", judging from Master Lâo`s Dàodéjing)? Anyway, thanks for sharing.

[@iainhughes2998]

When people ask me what meditation is like I always say its like sitting on a bonfire chewing razor blades

[@HardcoreZen]

Ouch!

[@martinratcliffe5987]

In the Bahiya instruction Buddha also seems to councel against positing an I in or standing aloof from experience. (re: swinging door) "Herein, Bahiya, you should train yourself thus: 'In the seen will be merely what is seen; in the heard will be merely what is heard; in the sensed will be merely what is sensed; in the cognized will be merely what is cognized.' In this way you should train yourself, Bahiya. "When, Bahiya, for you in the seen is merely what is seen... in the cognized is merely what is cognized, then, Bahiya, you will not be 'with that.' When, Bahiya, you are not 'with that,' then, Bahiya, you will not be 'in that.' When, Bahiya, you are not 'in that,' then, Bahiya, you will be neither here nor beyond nor in between the two. Just this is the end of suffering."

[@kr1221E]

Maybe people who get negative effects try to clear their mind. This is not possible, it's a about non judgementally observing stuff in our minds, without obsessing over it. I once heard someone write, think of thoughts like clouds passing through the sky, don't get on one, just let it pass, acknowledge it.

[@wadecleveland9001]

"That's what Dogen said" LOL

[@HardcoreZen]

HA!

[@Tsotha]

Great video Brad! The exact same problems with secularised mindfulness meditaiton you mention are the ones I have had in the fact, right down to the repressed negative thoughts emerging up to the surface - which are difficult to deal with when lacking the right religious framework for that purpose!

[@deanmccrorie3461]

This is just an experiment I discovered on my own but I’m sure it been thought of millennia ago, but I recommend trying what I call 3rd person meditation So what you do is you get into zazen, but instead whenever their is the urge to talk or describe things, say them deliberately in 3rd person rather than the habitual 1st. For example you’re sitting down and you notice the sensation on your butt. You say, ‘there is a sensation of the butt’ instead of ‘I feel my butt’ You do this with absolutely everything, never letting the I become personal. ‘There is the thought of i’ ‘The body feels uncomfortable’ ‘There is a worry about the deadline’ Etc etc I found this got me to a level of very consistent peace that I can’t really explain. Anyone know what this is called?

[@Tristan-watermelon]

Hello Dean, I think this is Vipassana Meditation (Insight Meditation). I saw a video by the Theravada Monk Yuttadammo Bikkhu explaining it in a similar way.

[@Tristan-watermelon]

I think it's this one: m.kzbin.info/www/bejne/o3mVpHinp6itl5Y

[@gra6649]

Wouldn't that be giving ones thoughts too much power? Every time one names a thought one is distracted by the naming its self. Thoughts as far as I've learned, should be treated like clouds passing over head. Let them come without trying to stop them, and let them go, without trying to chase them, or hold on to them. Zazen is practiced a certain way for a reason. And that reason is to help to diminish ego. To add ones personal touch just reinforces ego, because their must be someone there to add the personal touch. Within the confines of the practice of zazen there are several techniques for doing zazen. They are, counting the breaths, (In and out, just in, and just out) following the breaths, and koan practice. And of corse there is posture. Ones back, as much as possible, the back must be straight. As long as ones ass is higher than ones knees, the back straightens up more or less on its own. And that's more or less it.

[@deanmccrorie3461]

@@gra6649 to each their own. I’ve doing classic Zazan for months with little change. This worked first try and works every time bringing peace. My sense get heightened and on the contrary my thoughts get weaker. I actually start thinking less as a result

[@deanmccrorie3461]

@@Tristan-watermelon thanks! I’ll look into it

[@wadecleveland9001]

What's the Zen equivalent of Mahamudra or Dzogchen?

[@HardcoreZen]

Maybe "kensho" or "satori." But those are dirty words!

[@Tomas33392]

I would say Shikantaza is a way very similar to Mahamudra. The difference is that Mahamudra uses many many practices before just sitting. Shikantaza goes straight to the finish of Mahamudra. Which has positive and negative things as a practice.

[@wadecleveland9001]

How do you sit Shikantaza without any preliminaries? There's no cause for pristine awareness to arise if you're just sitting.

[@Tomas33392]

@@wadecleveland9001 I am still learning about this practice, so my understanding is most likely flawed. But Shikantaza is to sit with reality just as it is. There is no aim. No aim towards liberation. It is a radical practice of just sitting, aware. Because in the end we are already free, we just doing realize it. It is more about trusting than anything else. Maybe this, coupled with the fact that Soto zen doesn't seem to put much emphasis on rebirth, might account for the fact why so many western practitioners feel attracted to it. I agree that Mahamudra and Dzogchen might sound much more promising in that regards. I understand that by getting direct pointing out instruction, going through preliminaries and getting instructions on the highest ways of Dzogchen and Mahamudra must be incredible. But on the other hand, it is still striving, still desiring something else. In Shikantaza it is just this.

[@wadecleveland9001]

@@Tomas33392 If we're all already enlightened then there's no point in practicing. Buddhism teaches dependent origination. Nothing arises without causes and its concomitant factors. There has to be a cause to create it. Nagarjuna's famous line is: "Neither from itself, nor from another, nor from both, and not without a cause."

[@jme7474]

last!

[@edgepixel8467]

Attaboy!

[@rascalrichard7271]

That's why the eightfold path is One Inseparable Whole Thing All Together...one can't really, and shouldn't even try, to split that and take just one step out of the eight and make anything apart from the others...every single step in the noble eightfold path is all the others and viceversa...these "new-era mindfulness prophets" (hahaha) pretend they can make it work by taking away the rest of it all and still achieve good and beneficial results...but that will never do...'sati', which is the original Pali word which we then translated to 'mindfulness', literally means 'to remember' and refers to 'remembering to practice moment by moment the whole eightfold path as a whole' which includes, mind you "mindfulness prophets", ethics of the mind, ethics of the mouth and ethics of the body! In one word 'sati' (mindfulness) really means, as Brad would probably put it, 'to remember, or to be mindful, to sit down, shut up and, what's more important, to not be a jerk'! Hehehehe...mindful bows to you, Good Ol' Brad! And thank you very much for what you do and how you do it! Superb! :)

[@guyolive1071]

first!

[@alondraacosta-mora6504]

I have had years meditating and i have been in another level of consciousness or frequency. Many “paranormal” things have happened to me.The craziest and most scary thing that has happened to me is when i was in such frequency in a strong positive spiral and then one day i got really really confused and i go into the mind and i lost the perception of reality and then i “lost” the frequency and i was so afraid.

[@HardcoreZen]

In the Zen tradition that is called "makkyo," which means "world of demons." It's not an actual world of demons. That's just a metaphor. It's happened to me too, and it can be terrifying. However, most Zen teachers will tell you that it's not really anything to worry about. It's just your mind getting overactive due to a lack of stimulation from outside. If it keeps on happening, it may be better to try a different form of meditation. Usually these things happen when the meditation is directed at the goal of achieving altered or "higher" states of consciousness. Instead, it may be better to just remain in your ordinary state and examine that.

[@alondraacosta-mora6504]

@@HardcoreZen really? tell me about your experience. Yes my mind started questioning things to the point it got scary. It is fucked up. since then i am scary to do it again. Like it seems like you have a distortion of reality. Seems like your brain suffers a collapse or shock. Thanks for sharing.

[@OmarLopez-kh3dx]

@@alondraacosta-mora6504 so meditation to "slow down the thoughts and fee peace" can be bad?

[@alexeyprofi3951]

@@alondraacosta-mora6504 clinical death

[@MariadeJesus-dt4ql]

@@alondraacosta-mora6504 Buddhism is demonic. Its a spiritual practice to connect with Buddha.. The sane with yoga..the positions of yoga is to connect with two of their Gods ( demons)