Mini Surface Grinder Part 1 - S02E12

We're going to build a giant lathe way grinder for the Bantam, but first we have to figure out what this whole grinder thing is about. To do that? We're going to build a little surface grinder. Here comes a lot of cutting, welding, and really thin stainless steel.
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[@StefanGotteswinter]

Oh, I love the measurement with the granite parallel, the three point support with the two micrometer heads is a good solution!

[@PhysicsAnonymous]

Thanks Stefan, huge fan of your channel! I was just watching your series on the rotary table. I'm not sure I will ever have that kind of attention to detail.

[@andrewbruce2034]

@rats arsed I think you're confused there bud

[@steamsearcher]

Grinding dust!! Grinding Dust and GRINDING DUST!! Many big shops gang these together and make sure the slides are very well covered!!! Superb as always! Great to ask questions!!

[@tortfeaser]

Love you guys. Just a couple of blokes muddling along, figuring it out as you go, but with some ambition. Top work. Remember, the solution to any problem is a bigger hammer.

[@pearcemachineshop5200]

You guys know there's going to be people who say you can't do this, I'm in your corner boys and wish you all the luck, my only advice would be set up set up and set up and the least amount of grinding possible on the lathe bed ways, I'm sure hoping it works out for you after all the work you've put in to the lath so far, may be you could put a test piece on the bed some how when you get to that point. Great job, Alan.

[@PhysicsAnonymous]

Thanks Alan, we have been discussing how to mitigate risk for a while now on that subject. i do plan to do incremental testing, including some test pieces strapped to the bed.

[@matthewmarting3623]

Keep at it man. Thisoldtony on KZbin refurbished a surface grinder over a 2 year period without access to the necessary tools, I don't see why you can't build one. Just remember that thousandths of an inch matter on a surface ground part and any flex at all in your build is gonna make that difficult to accomplish.

[@russnorman1546]

I've just come across these chaps, and to see them enjoying engineering is infectious. Brilliant, please keep these videos going, Tally ho!

[@AlphaMachina]

My favorite part of the series yet. Seriously. Beautiful editing and incredible work on that. Don't get me wrong, I love the lathe build series, but for some reason, these little projects really kick ass for me.

[@JyrkiKoivisto]

Linear rails are only grind at certain locations. Top of the rail is not grind, it just is what it is. Bottom of the rail is grind as are the ball raceways and one side has a reference surface. The reference surface is supposed to be bumped up to a very precise wall and that will make the linear rail straight or else it might have a bow to it.

[@jonq8714]

It's so cool that Thom Yorke is helping you out with this.

[@kentvandervelden]

Wonderful build, lot of creative ideas. I'm going to binge watch your channel :) Also, nice bouldering wall off your kitchen.

[@laughlan22]

feckin norra lads, thought you'd be all week shimming that thing straight!!

[@BestUnderPressure]

Very interesting. I love how you feel like you have to explain why you did it so the KZbin experts won't tear you apart. Thanks for sharing.

[@PhysicsAnonymous]

yeah, we are also trying to think a little outside the box on some of this stuff, so it warrants a little over explaining. neither Ryan or i come from a machinist background so a lot of the times we do things in weird ways that people in the industry think are crazy. sometimes they are right ;)

[@scottwillis5434]

It seems worth separating the personal from the technical. Let's distinguish "tearing *them* apart" - personal - from attempting to provide hard-earned knowledge about how to improve *the project* - technical. I would rather someone explained to me that metal will warp during welding, and what I could do to reduce or avoid or allow for that, and that it needs to be stress-relieved after welding, than have what I *thought* was a decent machine tool come out warped, twisted and unstable - and transfer that distortion to everything I used it on (such as a lathe bed).

[@bigdilliams]

wow the best video if seen so far on this topic, great build!

[@ouchymytoe]

Someone who appreciates minimal constraint! Hallelujah!!!

[@shane9338]

First let me say Great channel! Looking forward to whatever s next! Some thoughts you might consider (keep in mind I offer these based on the amount of work you already have into the base . 1) copy the 3 point system to the bottom. You have done a great job with granite and Bessel points, so take advantage of it. 2) First take the rails off, get some threaded rod and heim joints make some tab mounts and create triangles in between the uprights, one heim left hand the other right hand thread. I am sure you know what to do with what I described. 3) Get the thing on surface plate use the lower 3 point system to get it level, setup your upper 3 point system with your granite block and get it parallel to the surface plate, take your measurements to the rail mounts, make a map. 4) Get the high spots roughed down with a hand grinder, to let’s say within .003 or .004 Once done make or buy a scraper (mild steel scrapes easy ) scrape in the rest. Now you have a pre-stressed scraped machine base to mount the rails that will move less do to temp change along with a nice 3 point leveling system for leveling your machine also this will make building the other axes much easier. I know I’ve left stuff out but seeing what you guys are capable of, I think You get the concept. One last thing... keep it up and your channel is going to be a fantastic successes!

[@kevinbyrne4538]

7:04 -- I'd never heard of Bessel points and Airy points until I saw this video. Learned something new. Merci.

[@MakingStuff]

Awesome. Can't wait to see it in action!

[@PracticalRenaissance]

Absolutely Fascinating! Can't wait to see where this goes!

[@turbocobra]

Awesome video. Really nice work mapping your variances. Also love the editing!

[@volvo245]

Some heavy ass retrowave beats...

[@jeffryblackmon4846]

Interesting project. Thanks for bringing us into your shop.

[@StefsEngineering]

I just stumbled upon your video's, Thanks for sharing and I have to say: I really like the way you handled the reference surface with those micrometers and steel balls! I am looking forward to watching the rest of the series and just subscribed.

[@Maxi-hs5nk]

Great work, You are going to get different results depending on how much you torque down the bolts. maybe use a torque wrench for repeatable results. Keep up the good work!

[@Steve_Just_Steve]

My thought also

[@MaxMakerChannel]

Maxi77 I thought the same. Also did you check the shim stock thickness?

[@wileecoyoti]

Maxi77 I would have thought so too and had a plan that was a bit more accurate than a torque wrench in place, but everything is actually very solid. No amount of tightening beyond "the German standard" (güten'tight) made any difference to the measurements. I spent years doing engine heads, I guess that stainless shim stock is just that much harder than a steel head gasket...

[@BigHayes7771]

Leveling each rail to each other is the hard part the reason machine bases are so big to keep the ways in relative position there setup will be changed by position and torque so it's like chasing their tails

[@carbide1968]

Just a quick clean up on a boring mill would help on the weldment mounting surfaces. Id do it for a pizza lunch and maybe a song an dance.

[@gregkieser1157]

Really enjoying your off the wall approach....keep it up!

[@repalmore]

In the past I've done some sorta flat stuff. Not sure this would help you though. I went to a marble counter top maker and got a sink cutout. Look at the shine of a light and it looks a lot flatter than my wood table top. I used post it note glue on the back of some sand paper and stuck it my marble piece and made some steel pieces for flat than I could with a belt or disk grinder. I like the results. Thanks for the video.

[@intjonmiller]

Nothing like building a precision machine with Harbor Freight tools. 😂 Use a torque wrench on those bolts to make sure you're getting the same torque on all bolts, every time. Solid mild steel bar stock is not very expensive for this scale. Might have made more sense than tubing. Too late now, so instead pour lead in the tubes for rigidity and mass. Then re-level with a torque wrench.

[@elofos0815]

Jon Miller, i think the same with the torque wrench

[@videogalore]

Oooooh a home-made surface grinder.......'Runs off to find the video about the climbing wall in the Kitchen!!'........

[@tobyw9573]

Bolts are like rubber bands, they have to be stretched within the elastic modulus limits to generate enough force to keep the fastened parts from moving against each other. If they move the bolts will work loose.

[@Jayprakashmishra-mo8fi]

Like your devlopment

[@donaldmoore8023]

You guys are ballsy and insane, and I love it.

[@jamessmith8480]

Definitely subbed! This is an awesome channel, keep up the good work!

[@Neur0bit]

Magnificent. Great work!

[@RoboCNCnl]

Interesting video guys.. !

[@dmitribovski1292]

Personally I would have made a jig to mount a grinder then slid it across the granite parallel grinding the mount for the rail flat. Or you could have attached the rails to the granite parallel then run a tool off of them. Shim isn't a good way of doing this as you have seen from your lumpy rails.

[@TheDaf95xf]

Great stuff boy’s 👍🏻 Tunes are awesome and really go with the video 😆🇬🇧

[@SeaDadLife]

You're having fun, guys. That's all that really matters.

[@beachboardfan9544]

This project is super interesting, if you guys can get it to work it'll be impressive!

[@one4stevo]

Very cool guys looking forward Awesome job

[@pedrotome9119]

Ir os because of people like these guys, that KZbin os my university...

[@williamdavis4268]

with what I have seen this might be ok for a home shop (as in hobby) looks good, keep up the good work.

[@tomthumb3085]

Fantastic guys. Let's see more.

[@maikeydii]

The problem about thermal expansion is not in the mild steel itself but in difference of materials. Hardened stainless, granite and mild steel all have different thermal expansion coefficients and so the heat will distort the dissimilar material differently. Also the support bar on which the linear rail is sitting would benefit from more stiffness (= thicker bar). Also the way you aligned rails to be parallel to each other with micrometer seem bit awkward - usually it's done with a dial indicator using the other rail as a reference.

[@jeffintoronto5712]

The project wasn't terribly interesting to me but the video quality and editing kept me watching. You guys have mad skills in the shop but also in the editing booth!

[@Chrisso1994]

This is such a great channel :)

[@TheDesertRat31]

Is that a climbing wall in your kitchen?!

[@SharkyMoto]

i dont get why you guys dont have more subs... the stuff you make might not be "professional" but it kinda gives me the feeling that i can do that stuff too wich is awesome :)

[@JontyCtheKing]

Hmmm, that frame looks like it might just about fit in the oven - easy way to do some stress relief (when the wife is out)

[@davidcrouch5091]

Superb fabrication!

[@pistolpete8518]

Suggestion for your next project: all purpose assembly/work/welding table. That is unless you like building things on your hands and knees on your concrete floor. Lots of really great kits out there. Also I LOVE your choice of music on these time lapse videos! Really adds to the experience!

[@riadenchong770]

In the middle of all that mumbo jumbo I think I see a cat

[@grakirk]

cool video peeps! whats that awesome sound track you got playing?

[@captainchippy8559]

Fantastic job guys! I just subscribed!

[@tobyw9573]

Have you tried pressing down on the rails to see if they flex under the loads equal to your grinder and carriage. No doubt the steel under the rail is very uneven in unknown. Perhaps you could try some spotfacing on your drill press to eliminate major offenders. Mine resists being used as a mill for any sideward cuts.

[@maksimgurtovenko2041]

It would be interesting to see the actual accuracy of the whole setup. You have no solid contact between the frame and the rails. I mean, you have shims right under the bolt and there is nothing to support the rail between shims. The rail may _looks_ rigid, but it actually isn't. If you put a dial gauge to the rail center and apply force downward to the rail you will see what I mean. When you put Y axis ontop a rails, it weight will bend a rails just a bit, and this deformations will be quite uneven through the rail. It may work for your cases, especially if you aren't going to precisely grind large surfaces. BTW, why don't you use granite surface plate as a base for your grinder?

[@Barthoization]

It will not be accurate, not by a long shot.

[@wileecoyoti]

Maksim Gurtovenko just gave it a try (indicator centered between bolts on the section with the most shim) and couldn't get the dial to even wiggle. I think we're still in good shape!

[@creamshop]

very nice work

[@jake3768]

your mate is a clever bloke

[@petemclinc]

Your wife said, "get that man crap off my kitchen island so I can start making dinner"!

[@stagz141]

not to bust up ur build props for that,, but it would be a good idea to have the frame stress relieved,, and maybe gettting the mounting surface of the rails milled, after stress relief to get u really close. then shim accordingly. just my two cents. every step you make the best u can, will make your end result of a machine so much better and reliable Stagz CnC

[@larsstegs]

I love it. I would love to build somethibg like that some day

[@unionse7en]

if you want ...you don't need 1/2-thousands shims to get less than 1/2-thousandth increments...just use (much/any) thicker shims and lap them down as needed.

[@Rattletrap-xs8il]

rather than using shim stock, what about grub screws from the opposite side? You could adjust to get zero and then use wicking locktite to set them in place.

[@JaakkoF]

Y axis on top of that thing? What sort of grinder are you building, as surface grinders usually are in a very different configuration with the axes.

[@jimmymymtv2254]

no X bracing ??? laterally weak :( wouldn't a precision grinder need to be rigid? what about the heat from grinding ? the ways of a lathe are hardened.... be it flame or induction hardening.... what about annealing the ways? cant wait to see how this turns out good luck very entertaining. :)

[@dunichtich100]

The way you mounted the linear rails, you cant be sure they are flat! You have to messure and maybe pack some strips of Aluminium-Foil under here and there^^

[@davidurdahl6656]

Someone needs a welding table... Lol yes. I see it looks you eventually built one.

[@theoriginalonion7545]

OUTSTANDING

[@flugschulerfluglehrer7139]

You can get to tighter tolerances in you lap the steel support on a flat Surface. The idea with the torquier wrench is good too.

[@SteadyPetesFPVquadracing]

That weld job though, what a welder sees.

[@PhysicsAnonymous]

Haha, yeah no doubt. We are working to get better though.

[@paulnorcross826]

Just out of curiosity, why would you measure your tolerances from the top of the rail surface (where the bolt holes are) and not from the tapered part of the rail where the slider bearing make contact with the rail?

[@PhysicsAnonymous]

Great Question, mostly out of convenience. the part the bearings slide on are actually concave to match the profile of the ball bearings in the carriage so taking a measurement off them consistently is very difficult. that being said we will actually be taking final measurements right off the carriage when we are done. that's the only measurement that actually counts.

[@moehoward01]

Shouldn't the cap screws securing the rails be torqued down? Different tightness between screws will affect flatness. Or am I being to picky?

[@alinciucanel924]

Ce strălucește blatul de granit👍

[@africanelectron751]

Mounting the rails to a ground chunk of granite would be an idea just have th granite water jet cut and mount the rails using chemical anchor.

[@johnfontaine2466]

excellent video ,a pile of rust it aint no more, well done

[@meocats]

so how are you going to stress relieve that structure after you welded it?

[@nectouxpierre4634]

beautiful!

[@catoomch]

I'm curious why didn't they mill the surface supporting the rails before shimming. It would give a lot more stability and support and reduce the adjustments needed.

[@chucktrim1a11]

hi, just started watching you guys channel, where did you get the rails and sliders.... or what are they called so i can look them up, wanted to make a system for my drill press, of fine adjustments, and this is what is need, though first about some used ways on a lathe, but i think this may be it!!!

[@cylosgarage]

How the dunk r u gonna grind the ways with that?

[@redeye118]

Never seen a Clarke tool outside the UK before

[@christurnblom4825]

I think you should have used a torque wrench and learned about hand scraping. At least to dial your surface gauge in. I don't know if torquing all the bolts the same would be better or worse but at least it would give you a base-line to learn from. Also, at the time of the video, did you know the tolerance grade of your granite & how long ago it was calibrated?

[@markloving11]

I know that this video is old now, but I just want some advice. I’m thinking of building my own medium sized manual milling machine that makes use of a lathe bed, headstock and carriage mounted vertically. (I’m only going to be doing light work). I can’t justify the price of a mini mill, but I can get the lathe parts for around £300, how much would you guys think that it would then likely be added on top of that to make the rest, in a similar style to this grinder build. Thanks in advance for your help!

[@sickboymech92]

great video. If you would have used two rows tightly spaced fine thread screws with lock nuts "like on a gib" comming up from the bottom of the linear rail I think you would have a more rigid set up with more flexibility in the way it can be adjusted. Food for thought.

[@Mekratrig]

Fascinated by this project, a couple questions: 1 - Wherr do you get half thou metal shims? 2 - Therr must be a way to get perfectly level surface? Maybe usings lasars? Or, how do lens makers make hypersmooth glass for telescopes? Could some of those procedures work here? Looking forward to next steps in this project...

[@Mtaalas]

Shimming is the low effort way, to properly do that you would have scraped it flat since you have a reference piece of granite.

[@chloekaftan]

I'd greatly appreciate it if you guys used a shade 3 or shade 5 UV filter on the lens of your camera or better a photosensitive UV lens that adjusts its shade according light exposure, it would be useful during the welding shots because its incredibly painful to watch it.

[@dasworkshop4967]

If you decide to enhance it in the future, you could remove the shims and use copper wire and bedding epoxy to get it perfectly flat. Instead of explaining the process, I encourage you to check out Stefan Gotteswinter's "Tramming a milling machine with epoxy" video on youtube. Then I'd try and bed the rails with the bearing blocks on the rails, and the test indicator tip moving with the bearing block. This allows you to adjust most of the potential errors as a group.

[@ctpctp]

you know that surface gauge has a pair of pins on one side that you can push down and use to track the edge of the block, right?

[@arunmaibam149]

nice job

[@xxstreme]

how can you get perfect precision without grounded paralel bed for linear guide? simply things you can do put back linear bed to surface of granite with atached sand paper and do sand things and you will get good rigidty

[@nated1971]

What?? no MatLab to create a 3D visualization of the surface? ;) Enjoy you channel

[@717Fang]

I wonder if CNC ATC spindle can be used to make surface grinder?

[@uidph33r]

top of the fridge doors is uneven in the background

[@MaxMakerChannel]

How did you come up with this idea? What are your backgrounds? Very interesting series. I noticed your climbing wall. Check out my climbing volume video if you want that perfect gym texture. Keep going!

[@wileecoyoti]

Max Maker great job on the climbing volume! I might have to add a few to our wall. Our backgrounds are... weird... We both went to art school, Mike is currently a multimedia engineer and I'm a former NASA design engineer currently doing software engineering for another company. Mostly we just love to build things and had awesome parents that let us play with power tools way before it was safe :)

[@johnward5890]

I was wondering if taking a Grinder and making a carriage for it to run on the granite parallel to surface the Pads you are shimming up like a industrial surface grinder for making flat plates.

[@BigSargeH]

I realize I am quite late tothe discussion but you are missing the key factor in the system. Repeatability requires matching Torque between your fasteners.

[@sisseeboy]

you guys really need to invest in some materials to make yourselves a fab table. that working of the floor shit would get old like yesterday in my opinion. also get your 123 blocks away from that weld spatter.

[@8bitInfidel]

Is there a climbing wall in your kitchen?

[@grakirk]

For anyone interested the music is Spheres - Johan Borjesson :-)

[@kslats916]

You should've put the carriage on the rails and measured the top surface of them as they ride on the precision ground surfaces of the rails.