MiniDSP Flex: Perfect Sound Through Digital Room Correction?

[@JohnWuMastermind]

A comparison would be helpful for many of us

[@michaelgwagner]

I'll put that on my list.

[@MDHeleniak]

Wow Michael, super helpful. I got lucky finding your channel last month and am working my way backwards on your content. You are an excellent teacher/instructor/guy with a sense of humor/person with feet on the ground. I say that admiringly, given I am an old fart who has suffered through waaaaay too many bad lectures. lol

[@michaelgwagner]

Thanks for the kind words! Glad the content is helpful!

[@dokma_eu]

Hi Michael, I had the same Adam T7V+Sub 10 combo, and was using Sonarworks software for room correction. But everything changed to much better when I purchased Genelec 8341A (and 8330A for surround) with RME interface. Genelec's have built-in DSP and I am powering them over AES via RME Fireface UFX III. I've calibrated them using Gelenec GLM 5 system and for me - Genelecs were the game changer, I have never before heard that depth of field, it's just amazing. Of course, it is a substantial expense - but it is worth it, I am so enjoying them. Cheers!

[@michaelgwagner]

Yeah, the expense is what brought me here. Lol. I never could convince myself to shell out lots of money far what is essentially a setup for shooting KZbin videos. ;)

[@dokma_eu]

@@michaelgwagner Of course. But if you get a chance - try Genelec 8341A, for a week or so. They are so clean, some evem say "surgical" - but I like to hear every detail, especially in stereo image, I've never experienced such depth and clarity.

[@peterpeper4837]

RME also includes now room correction in the Totalmix fx with their newer interfaces

[@michaelgwagner]

Interesting! Need to check that out.

[@mrhde]

Hey. Is it clipping/limiting/volume down signal when for example - I will boost a 40 hz 7db+ ? or its without any distortion?

[@michaelgwagner]

I honestly don't know, but they have a fairly active user community forum on their site. I'm sure somebody there can answer your question.

[@baronofgreymatter14]

How would you connect this to an integrated amp? I have a sub connected to pre-out ? No one ever shows the actual connections. Is the dsp connected to a laptop is the mike plugged int othe dsp or the laptop would be nice to know

[@michaelgwagner]

This particular device would not be used in connection with an integrated amp. It is meant for music studio setups where you have an audio interface and active speakers. The device has balanced inputs and balanced outputs and sits between interface and speakers. That’s pretty much it.

[@conrow1157]

Is it possible to copy already measured sonarworks calib. curves ?

[@michaelgwagner]

No, completely different thing.

[@andyclarke7100]

Hey - is there any noticeable latency when recording thru the speakers with Dirac on?

[@michaelgwagner]

Not at all level I would notice.

[@tuanhuynh3080]

Sensei! Why would i need dirac live while i can do the calibrating myself with the FLEX, a calibration mic and REW?

[@michaelgwagner]

Primarily because calibration is not only about frequency response. Dirac also does phase alignment.

[@tuanhuynh3080]

@@michaelgwagner i believe It is possible to do it with Rew as well. REW does have a phase tab and delay calculation for each speaker ( channel ).

[@hazembata]

Hi. Are DSP's meant to replace passive crossovers? If so, how would you send a different signal to the various drivers? If this DSP does not replace the crossover, is there a DSP that can? Thanks.

[@michaelgwagner]

You can add a crossover point to the device and route the audio to the individual outputs.

[@o.g.willing]

Yes comparison please!

[@michaelgwagner]

Ok, I'll put that on my list.

[@androbi4550]

Modern monitors also have room correction builtin. For the price of miniDSP/Dirac you essentially get one monitor for free (Neumann KH120ii are 800€ each, plus 275€ for the MA1). This makes these monitors a good option if you want room correction. Also, as has been mentioned, the RME interfaces with advanced dsp capabilities can be used for room (and headphone) correction. This requires fiddling with REW or similar though.

[@michaelgwagner]

I was considering upgrading my monitors to the new Adams with DSP. And I did use the IK Multimedia MTMs for a while. But these all only do frequency correction. The issues that I was faces were mostly in the time domain. Built in DSPs never worked well for my setup.

[@Sycraft]

@@michaelgwagner I've never heard any other room correct that is the equal of Dirac Live. Audyssey, the one that IK uses, isn't bad but as you found it is not on the same level as Dirac Live. It's amazing how good a job it can do in a mediocre room setup (like my living room) but also it still is worth it in a good studio with good equipment. The only downside to it, other than the cost, is that it does introduce a short delay since it uses a FIR filter, but of course if you want time-domain correction that is the cost of having it, and it is a cost well worth it in my opinion. Also, as an FYI, they make it in plugin form as well. Dirac Live Room Correction Suite is software sold by them directly that runs as a VST/AAX/AU plugin or as a standalone program for the OS. It's a little cheaper than getting the Flex, and you can also get a multi-channel version (for more money) but of course uses computer power to do its job rather than being a nice standalone device.

[@androbi4550]

@@michaelgwagner I thought room modes were minimum phase (which should be ok to correct with EQ) as opposed to crossovers were linear phase is applied (afaik one of the reasons DSP is used in these monitors).

[@joelhume1]

Love my Dirac/MiniDSP combo. My room is very well treated and with my ATC25s I only have a +-2.5db variation with 1/12 smoothing in REW. I really do want to shoot it out with Trinnov Nova though….

[@michaelgwagner]

Nce!

[@bpmproductions5946]

Awesome video. Could this hypothetically work to tune an analog set up to your room as well? Or does the microphone thru the calibration process need to be done through the same interface as is outputting to the speakers? Also, my speakers (pmc result6) have a perforated grill on the tweater to enhance the sweet spot (very helpful for my less than ideal setup). Do you know if the dsp mini would affect this feature of my speakers? Thanks.

[@michaelgwagner]

The mic they provide is a USB mic, it actually does not run through the interface. What you do with the speakers should not influence the result as long as you measure the speakers with the grill attached.

[@bpmproductions5946]

@@michaelgwagner thanks!

[@MDHeleniak]

I too would like some type of speaker tuning solution shootout.

[@michaelgwagner]

Thanks for the feedback. I'll put it on my list!

[@Only4YGuitars]

A very nice review Michael ! I've a question : do you know if the unit can work without Dirac Live ? I've already invested a lot of time with REW/RePhase, so i would prefer not to change the calibration software.

[@michaelgwagner]

Yes, it can.

[@Only4YGuitars]

@@michaelgwagner Thx a lot for your quick reply.

[@1loveMusic2003]

Was going to buy the IK ARC but I'm glad I waited. Would love a comparison video.

[@michaelgwagner]

I'll put that in my list. ;)

[@Norman-bone13]

@@michaelgwagnerAgree

[@larsstecken]

Thank you for the great video. Can you please tell me how much customs and tax were added in your case? I can't find a quote for shipping to Germany. And I am a bit anxious because I once paid the price of a product in customs when I ordered a backpack form the US 😶 Thanks again, Stefan

[@michaelgwagner]

I can’t really tell you that because the unit is below the customs limit for the US. I did not pay any customs on it. MiniDSP do answer questions, I would suggest to ask them.

[@larsstecken]

@@michaelgwagner Thank you for the swift reply - for some strange reason I placed you in Austria 🙃 Which I can currently see from where I am. Cheers!

[@Tim._..]

Tip: don't add Dirac to your cart or they will add it to the valuation and you will pay import duty on it. You can get a license later online.

[@upitshak]

Hi, thanks for this review. How good its dac preform? Or do you suggest to use it with external dac?

[@michaelgwagner]

I don’t use it as a DAC. I’m not an expert in analyzing DAC performance but to me it appears as good as any other DAC I own.

[@upitshak]

​@@michaelgwagner but if you choose the unit with analog outputs its also doing the conversion, am i wrong ?

[@michaelgwagner]

@upitshak Yes, you can use it as a DAC.

[@upitshak]

@@michaelgwagner i talked with minidsp support. If you choose the one with the digital outputs actually it come without a dac. Its called 'minidsp flex digital'. Use for external dac, so all signal remains digital.

[@michaelgwagner]

@upitshak Makes sense, thanks for the info.

[@djfawkes2299]

Welcome to Sprockets! Hey good video.

[@michaelgwagner]

Thanks!

[@Studio22mix]

Great video, I tried Dirac software today and it's actually not bad at all. It is possible to try it for free for two weeks and it runs without DSP hardware. You can use Dirac Live Processor for applying the filters, the nice thing is it works system wide and you can store up to eight presets. You can use any output device so no hardware necessary. The phase and timing corrections are really great as is the delay compensation for your speakers. I made two measurements, one with a flat target and one with the Harman target. The Harman target is definitely much better for my personal taste. I measured the results separately with REW to measure the actual results, my system is much closer to the Harman target now and sounds so much better, especially the stereo field. Now I will test if my mixes will translate better to other systems, I think it will be much better. Since this doesn't needs extra hardware and works outside the daw, (so it's not possible to accidentally bounce files with room correction on) which is great. I'm definitely going to give this a test run for two weeks. So far I like it 👍🏼

[@michaelgwagner]

Great! Just be aware that a license for one does not give you access to the other. Dirac Live and Dirac for DSPs are two different products afaik.

[@Studio22mix]

Yeah, I saw you can get the MiniDSP 2-4 HD with Dirac license for 470 euro. Then I have separate outputs for my sub or a secondary headphone amp output which I can correct separately from the mains. In that case I can also load my REW corrections. Then all runs on the Shark processor and it has Toslink inputs. I think it’s a great solution for me. 365 bucks for the software standalone is only stereo and for 95 extra I have the hardware box. The thing is I don’t like either Sonarworks nor Arc. This is far more tweakable and I think that Dirac will keep evolving because it gets implemented by major manufacturers. I will give it a testrun and listen 😊

[@Studio22mix]

@@michaelgwagner I tested Dirac Live and liked it a lot. I choose the miniDSP DDRC-24 with Dirac and installed it today, just as I thought I have speaker and headphone correction now, did some mixes while testing and all translated well to different systems. I'm very happy with the unit and can highly recommend it to anyone. The calibration gave a better stereo image which is great when dialling in effects and the delay compensation gave a good overall balance. I use the first two outputs with Dirac and use the parametric equalizer on outputs 3 and 4 for correction on my headphone amp.

[@Norman-bone13]

A comparison of the ones you tried would be appreciated greatly. 👍🏼🎶😎

[@MANUCHOTTU]

Thankyou Sir... 🙏🙏🙏

[@michaelgwagner]

Your're very welcome! :)

[@avia4281]

There any rival brands instead of minidsp?

[@michaelgwagner]

Not directly. You could use the IK Multimedia Arc Studio, but that would only work with the Arc correction system. On the high end you have the Trinnov series.

[@avia4281]

@ I’m using smaart v10, measured and corrected then convert Rew to create a file to work with inn rePhase program and outcomes the convolution file added to REW on pc. Sounds fantastic for all 5.1 channels from pc hdmi out to avr denon. Looking for something portable and saw brand called Arylic but very little features. I might have to snag a minidsp wait for Black Friday as I don’t ever see any sales with them. I had used there usb microphone and had to return twice had problems. But it’s fine though I upgraded to kateluo mk2 way better. I saw Dayton audio might have to chat them up.

[@michaelgwagner]

@avia4281 Smaart is a good one. I have not used that for a while thought. It’s not a common choice in music production.

[@jrgroberts]

I haven't used this device or Dirac, I'm confident it gives good results. But the IK ARC4 Studio also gives good results, is cheaper, includes the software license, and also has a fully balanced signal path with relay full bypass... testing its results with SoundID reference and REW it gives good correction and is better than ARC3 and Sonarworks or my homegrown REW profiles. Moving speakers will not affect the room modes, it might alter the excitation of them. I am doubtful about the efficacy of DIRAC phase correction above ELF in a non-sealed room that is not an automobile application, will have to try it! Thanks for the review.

[@michaelgwagner]

Good points. I never really liked the ARC system but I should probably give it a try. Moving the speakers would not change the room modes but it would put the listening position into a better spot.

[@MW-ii5nb]

You sound so much like Arnold.

[@slofty]

To hear the lamentation of the women?

[@jocool7370]

Run to the chopper!

[@anlemcsa132]

480p 👀

[@michaelgwagner]

It’s in 4k. Sometimes you need to switch manually.

[@anlemcsa132]

​@@michaelgwagner✨🙏

[@killorfill6953]

Hey Michael, I've been waiting for a cheap alternative to Trinnov's solutions for years. My listening space is definitely sub-par. HiFi folks have Dirac functions in their (super expensive) amplifiers and Dirac seems a really well developed system. Thanks very much for posting as i had no idea MiniDSP made these products. So glad i subscribed to your channel a few months ago! 😀

[@michaelgwagner]

Thanks! Yes, it is a cheap stereo alternative to a Trinnov. MiniDSP is flying a bit under the radar. They produce a lot of great stuff though.