Minisode - Diegetic

[@DavidDagninoV]

sometimes editing as a diegetic can also be brought to attention by a character. Dr. House once did this when he was in the office discussing a patient with the team then the next scene they are still discussing the patient as they are going down the stairs. House interrupted the conversation and asked the team if any of them noticed there was nothing between these two scenes. They "blacked out" and appeared on the stairs magically. The three doctors dismiss thing as House being crazy and they say they are not blacked out. Of course that episode had the framing device that House was dreaming the whole episode and that is why he alone could sense the editing.

[@almablanca17]

a amazing episode by the way

[@Celastrous]

House also breaks the 4th wall with his comments like telling another character "Walks make the story look like it's moving forward", which is something that happens a lot in the shows editing.

[@jdprettynails]

@@Celastrous Also, I don't know if this is a fourth wall break, but I love the running gag where House constantly mistakes Chase's accent as British. It's a common mistake for Americans to make, but coming from House (played by British actor, Hugh Laurie) it's almost drawing attention to the fact that the actor playing him isn't actually American.

[@zumabbar]

@@jdprettynails what accent is chase's supposed to be?

[@jdprettynails]

@@zumabbar He's Australian

[@strangeclaims]

I liked the plot twist at the end.

[@Halbmond]

In video game interfaces, there are even more distinctions made than just diegetic/non-diegetic: diegetic, meta, spatial and traditional. Traditional interfaces are clearly non-diegetic, but while the other two are as well, it makes sense to give them distinct names. Spatial interfaces are interfaces that are projected into the virtual world, but are not part of the narrative, so the characters of that world are not aware of them. In a philosophical sense they happen at the fourth wall as you describe, but in a more sophisticated way. Meta interfaces on the other hand are part of the narrative, so the characters are aware of them, but they are not displayed as part of the virtual world. A famous example is the cellphone in GTA4: the character can be seen talking on his phone, but what's displayed on screen is a separate 2D representation of that phone. So I'd say that absolutely exists right at the fourth wall! Interestingly, these video game-related interfaces can be seen in some modern movies as well: spatial interfaces, for example, can be movie credits that are projected in 3D onto surfaces at the beginning of a movie. An example for meta interfaces are the virtual messaging bubbles showing the viewer what the characters on screen are typing into their phones. They are part of the narrative, because they show what the character actually sees, but they display that information in a way that is detached from the diegesis. So I think it makes sense to use the extended definitions in movies as well. (Maybe meta and spatial come from movie theory anyway and you just didn't mention them)

[@_sophies]

This is super interesting, and this video got me thinking about video games too, and how the standards for diageses varies a ton from game to game, with a ton of grey areas. For example, if a character can store a big gun under their jacket, do they diagetically have a magic jacket? Or in cases of Ludonarrative dissonance, how much of the gameplay is diagetic, if at all?

[@rachelb.684]

In musicals, the musical numbers are usually non-diegetic. When I found that out musicals made SO MUCH MORE SENSE

[@yahavshalem5692]

Crazy ex girlfriend plays with this beautifully, I won't spoil it, but it's really good

[@_supersolar]

The film 'Dancer in the Dark' explores this topic! The approach of deep sleep and realization of the performance dream. Bring Ffrth wall.

[@Jurgan6]

@@yahavshalem5692 I was going to say that. In her mind, Rebecca can sing, but in the rare diegetic songs she’s always horribly off-key.

[@leaffinite2001]

I dont mean to be rude but i feel like this is extremely obvious in most musicals

[@Jurgan6]

@@leaffinite2001 most people don’t really think about it that hard, they just roll with it if the songs sound good. Meanwhile people who hate musicals will complain that everyone signing together is “unrealistic.”

[@Ayries]

This is a GREAT introduction. Most attempts I've made of understanding this assumed I'd already got the basics. Turns out it's an expanded version of "watsonian vs. doyleian"...

[@adelaidedupont9017]

That's what I'm thinking too - mostly in a #doylean sense.

[@JonathanKorman]

'The Sixth Sense' hints at diagetic editing as a twist. What we think in the first viewing is normal cinematic editing eliminating extra dialogue and boring transitions is suggested to actually Bruce Willis' character of the ghost of Dr Crowe manifesting and disappearing.

[@DavidDagninoV]

Jonathan Korman exactly, nevertheless he never sensed this. He behaved as any other movie character, not existing in the space between scenes.

[@RetepAdam]

I was going to say that I felt like calling editing diagetic was stretching the idea too far, but this sold me. It’s non-diagetic, but it can be played with and become diagetic. Inception and really anything that takes place within dreams, in particular.

[@svenleeuwen]

Wow, thanks for spoiling the ending!

[@svenleeuwen]

JK :)

[@hexcodeff6624]

@@svenleeuwen Everyone already got your joke, it was nice

[@mightyNosewings]

I've noticed is that in video games -- especially narrative-driven 3D video games -- the barrier between diagetic and non-diagetic is really fuzzy. In some games, there's just a map on your screen; in Metal Gear Solid, Snake has the Soliton Radar System. In some games, you just have a level select menu; in Antichamber, you have a hub room where you look at a map on a screen in order to teleport to a location.

[@tabula_rosa]

assassins creed was entirely diagetic... in the first game.

[@noxabellus]

I think it's important to realize that these terms are not just phonetic labels, but also tools for thought, and I think the concept of the fourth wall and the idea that the interplay of diegetic and nondiegetic techniques transpire "upon" or "through" it, really illustrates that well. The more you can come up with abstractions like this for your process, the more power you have in creating, and that's true not just of writing or film but creativity in general. The way you personally abstract things can become your own personal language, your mark as an artist.

[@phillipmele8533]

My favorite fourth wall breaks have to be in wacky kids shows and movies where they’ll ask the editor to give them a travel montage to get somewhere quickly, in effect making editing itself diegetic.

[@deenapie]

omg, Thank you for explaining this, I ALWAYS get confused between what's diegetic/non-diegetic. Sharing!

[@masonaut0]

I know this is a very old video, but I’ve been thinking about it for a while. I would love to hear your thoughts on the Haunting of Bly Manor, where practically all of the scene-to-scene editing is explicitly diegetic. The characters themselves are experiencing events out of order, in the exact same way the audience, and this is revealed towards the second half of the show. Skips in time-whether forward or backward-are revealed to be the result of the way Hannah Grose perceives the world through her dementia. Flashbacks are revealed to be characters getting “tucked away” in a memory while their consciousness is taken over by a ghost. It’s fascinating, and something I’ve never seen before. Highly recommend, as every element from music, to narration, to the editing itself toys with the idea of being diegetic throughout the entire piece

[@jessielefey]

I would argue that editting is or can be diagetic. Especially in movies with a very firm protagonist or audience viewpoint; people lose time all the time. Say for example highway hypnosis. You leave your desk, and then you're in your car, and then you're pulling into your driveway, unless you *really* try to pay attention, your brain edits out the fluff.

[@aurielvoltaire9370]

Another good example could be the comedic editing in scott pilgrim vs the world where it cuts to different scenes to represent that his mind is someplace else.

[@nonlineargoblin]

Jessie le Fey I would also give black outs as an example of editting being diagetic. For example in Bojack Horsemen when he blacks out during his bender in season three. The black outs work as fast cuts between scenes and they affect not only the characters understanding of the events of the episode and the audience's.

[@InvisiblerApple]

Plus there's one episode of Fringe where the line was played with. Peter kept jumping forward & skipping time in a way that clearly mimics edits between scenes.

[@jaymiddleton1782]

F is For Fake literally uses diagetic editing.

[@Klick404]

The cafe scene in Inception is another great example of this. In a dream, you always end up in the middle of the action and you don't question how you got there. Same thing happens with editing, we cut into the middle of the action and don't question how we got there

[@GNeves302]

I can't handle all this meta!!! Seriously, great video. It also interesting to see how the meaning of the word has changed and has been reappopriated. I was only familiar with diegesis as opposed to mimesis, a differentiation Plato uses when talking about poetry, something that was brought to my attention recently as I was studying his dialogs. How it went from having this meaning to generating the word diegetic and its meaning is probably enough material for a video on its own.

[@drmaniac5763]

That ending was fucking genius

[@nicolaszunker4938]

man this channel is good. Like goddaaaaaaamn this channel is good. Like nerdwriter1 but more focused on film and art. Im genuinely transfixed by every video essay on this channel, they are all so complex that i cant multitask and watch something else and theyre all so itnersting that i wouldnt want to.

[@daniellenicolecanaleta5614]

this explained diegesis in such an easily comprehensible way thank you so much and your wit is very admirable definitely subbing

[@daniellenicolecanaleta5614]

i'm a pre-nursing student at university of wa in seattle and this quarter I'm taking an intro to cinema class, one of the terms i was just introduced to was diegesis but the concept seemed so confusing to me, i cannot even begin to explain how much this video helped lol

[@taywimzzz]

The soundtracks in both Guardians of the Galaxy movies are either entirely or almost entirely diegetic. Pretty neat.

[@AceOfSevens]

In movies with diagetic cameras, which have become semi-common, editing often does represent something in diagesis, such as the characters stopping recording and later restarting it.

[@InvisiblerApple]

Like when a character edits an in-story tape to hide something and all us viewers see is the end result just hinting at the 'hiding something'.

[@quiroz923]

Great video. I hadn't thought of the fourth wall as the imaginary place where we could place the non diegetic elements. It's a nice way to put it.

[@Tessaalera]

Your explanations are so helpful! I had no idea what this meant and you showed what it was in a way I could easily understand. Great work.

[@ImJonnay]

I really liked the "What about editing?" edits. Nice one!

[@michaelolson7626]

I'm so happy I found this channel

[@TheParappa]

Yep, I jumped back to the start to see if it's really the same clip.

[@Noms_Chompsky]

Dormmamu, I've come to algorithm comment.

[@lolno2068]

I'd say sleep is a "cut". You leave one scene and then enter another usually only slightly offset in space but definitely offset in time, and if you're a sleepwalker the similarities are even stronger!

[@how2indonesia]

Mind blown at the end

[@zeadsi]

you're like a second Vsauce, I love it.

[@Robersora]

+SilverVeil Well, Vsauce is more like a train of thought intended for children, while he is more about explaining one topic thoroughly for oder audiences.

[@zeadsi]

Robersora good point, us *oder* people need content too.

[@Robersora]

lol, I *guess* you're right. ;) There's nothing wrong with vsauce, he does a fantastic job and should be shown in class rooms as he really knows how to grab people's attention. It's just wanted to point out that Folding Ideas and Vsauce are fundamentally different, and in what way they are.

[@zeadsi]

Robersora through the magic of the internet, problem erased :) Eh, I don't think they're that far off, trying to separating them is just a practice in splitting sub-genres further, something I don't see the need to do. Like progressive art rock and progressive math rock... really pointless after awhile if you ask me. How I see it it's just a matter of how each approach their subject matter and to what degree that dive into it. Outside of that they fall under the same umbrella to me.

[@beckyginger3432]

More than you know! 😉😁

[@saltman147]

What about when a character loses lucidity, i.e Sleep, knocked out, drugs, flash backs, and the film or video cuts to when they wake up, does that not constitute a real life cut?

[@jackkain7141]

Mean Guns, and it's mambo soundtrack, is one of my favourite diegetic examples.

[@Pablo360able]

This video has a better twist than most Shyamalan films.

[@MegaVideoJames]

Oh I like this guy

[@LynnHermione]

The Doctor Who episode Forest of the Dead turned cuts diegetic. It's wonderful.

[@YEs69th420]

If I remember correctly, so did Turn Left and episodes featuring the Silence.

[@aoshinn]

That's why people often use "feels diegetic", it just feels natural, feel belonging to that thing you're already buying in.

[@VictorFrost]

Dude, I fucking love your channel. I make videos similar to yours, but with a more production oriented bend, but your videos make me want to stop making mine and just point people at you. I'm not going to, of course, because I love making videos, but hell if you're not a big inspiration for me. Keep on truckin, man.

[@PaulThronson]

I would argue that editing does exist in our world. We do not recall past events or timelines in a minute by minute, second by second, continuous stream of time. If that were true, we would never have time to recall anything. So editing is very similar to "remembering" and like remembering, our human brains tend to recall those times when our emotions were highest - either delight or suffering - and then we tend to create/describe the story around those events. That is how humans combine our past with our current imagination and the ability to use language to summarize and categorize.

[@exdiegesis]

Empiricism means breaking the 4th wall of the language game.

[@jeisonlm]

THIS WAS INSANE WOW

[@jc-kj8yc]

I think editing is non-diegetic unless it is used to break the fourth wall. The cuts and transitions don't affect the fictive world, just the way it is shown and received. If you for example edit a penis into your movie to take the viewers out of the moment and remind them that they're watching a construct, the penis is arguably diegetic because it physically appears in the world of the story. But if you just cut between two faces during a dialogue without the speakers acknowledging the cuts it's non-diegetic because the cuts don't affect the fictive world in any way. It's just like an auctorial story teller describing a conversation in written text. By describing the dialogue he creates a certain view point for the reader but he is never part of the story, unless the author chooses too, which is an equivalent of breaking the fourth wall.

[@JoshForeman]

This is pedantic, (but that's what the comments section is for, right?) but blinking is real-world editing. I believe I heard or read from some brain scientist person that our brain edits out the time during a blink.

[@scytheslash]

I think they would've meant a saccade (the small movements your eyes make to look at things), the time between saccades is edited out by the brain and so is any information presented while the saccade is made.

[@JoshKillcrop]

@@scytheslash Fun tangent: A guy I was doing some film work with years ago had a friend who developed a super weird camera rig. The rig was worn on the face with four cameras. Two were fixed and pointed at the each eye. The other two were on little robotic actuators pointing outward parallel to each eye. The two fixed cameras tracked all of the wearer's eye movements, and translated them to motion of the other two cameras. The objective was to create a rig that they could use to get really natural POV shots. Instead what they got was a jittery mess because our eyes move around A LOT more than we really are conscious of (the whole editing out of saccades). The rig ended up being good for doing a POV shot of a mentally disturbed character though.

[@scytheslash]

@@JoshKillcrop What movie would that be?

[@Subvisual]

You are never experiencing the world in perfect real time, there is a slight lag between events happening and your brain processing them. Even crazier the lag is different between audio and visual signals but your brain helpfully syncs up the two signals for you. The world you see and think you're interacting with is always the world of ~80 milliseconds ago.

[@JoshKillcrop]

@@scytheslash Oh I don't remember. What I saw was a rough cut, it may never have gotten released. It was a small personal project if I recall. Sorry, I know that's not a satisfying answer. A microcosm of life I suppose.

[@commander31able60]

so, if the screen is the 4th wall, then in VR entertainment... there is no 4th wall? are you, the audience, then part of the diagesis?

[@agent42q]

after going through 3 other avenues this was the best breakdown.

[@papenfuscharlie5567]

“So let’s talk about a great word, diegetic” Video ends...

[@TheSneezingAnouki]

I love it when literature studies get all mind-fucky.

[@orijimi]

It's weird how so many people watched this video and came away with an inability to spell the word correctly.

[@kamenrideromega1]

diabetic

[@batfan1939]

There are no numbers next to the like/dislike buttons.

[@nickmagrick7702]

4th wall is my favorite wall to break

[@EciruamreklaW]

High tier FIRE

[@Torn0023]

Hm, after watching this episode I don't know if I should like, share and subscribe...

[@kallmeej9106]

Dan Olson was looping before it was cool

[@stewyhosseini]

i wish you were my atar english teacher

[@paxcallow]

that bit at the end messed me up!

[@OninRuns]

it's pronounced [dahy-uh-jéé-sis], by the way :3

[@TheSianFromAtlantis]

Thank God. I thought it was only me. Good video BTW.

[@bishop6881]

I see what you did there

[@xqzqcv7950]

Exactly what happened to the MST3K Mantra and Bellisario's Maxim? Why did they fall out of fashion in favor of hyperanalytical bunk like thermian argument and the like.. This is all reeking of Simpsons comic book guy, its sad and a bad extremely narrow limiting way to look at fiction. ”hal this is just about cats” - andrew lloyd webber

[@adelaidedupont9017]

How many of you creators and thinkers made #diegetic your #wordfor2020 ?

[@Roland00]

No enough Plato =D

[@kattankarl]

Diagetic is the top 1 word / concept for people who are dumb like to point out the meaning of so they think they are smart

[@caseyhamm8822]

i refuse to believe that you don’t know how to pronounce diegesis. you’re pulling my leg, right?

[@arsenelupin123]

Same for slow motion, I guess.

[@elheber]

Cutting can be made diegetic. A recent example is a recent Sherlock Holmes episode in which Sherlock's experience of moving from scene to scene is part of his drug trip. In *Johnny Dangerously* there was on-screen text that turned out to be diegetic as well.

[@litcrit1624]

"DYE-uh-juh-suss"? Most say "dye-uh-GEE-sis." *SOURCE:* _OED_; _Dictionary.com_; every class I ever took

[@Felixiroflife28]

I love Dan but this drove me mad, I've only ever heard dye-uh-GEE-sis and it seems a lot more natural of an em-PHA-sis

[@jasondoe2596]

Felix O'Connor The correct stress (in the prescriptive, not the descriptive grammatical way :) would be on dye-EE-gee-sis, and also EM-pha-sis. Definitely not em-PHA-sis O_o

[@litcrit1624]

Jason Doe Correct according to whom? No dictionary or expert I've encountered. (Haven't search many). But maybe in the Greek, out of classics departments.

[@Felixiroflife28]

@Jason Doe As a film studies major I've only ever heard dye-uh-GEE-sis, that's what I'm used to hearing but I accept there are always different ways to pronounce words. Especially with Greek rooted words it common for there to be no "right way" to pronounce it, the way he says it just grates on me because it's not what I'm used to The second part was a bit of a Dad joke, when someone pronounces something differently than I'm used to I usually say they're putting the em-PHA-sis on the wrong syl-LA-ble (it's not a very funny joke to begin with and works much better IRL).

[@jasondoe2596]

Felix O'Connor interesting; thanks! (I'm definitely NOT a film studies major) Yeah, in practice what's important is communication... and sorry for not getting the dad-joke (oops :-)

[@felipeedoardo]

So are you like... seeing anyone, or? Asking for a friend.

[@lingonberriesofwrath1836]

This is the problem with trying to be an intellectual. You take a concept that everyone knows, and can easily comprehend, and then you move that concept somewhere else and make it opaquer than fuck. It's the sound of someone who just looooves the reverberation of their own voice.

[@flimpeenflarmpoon1353]

?

[@machinelfgaming]

Sometimes it feels like you are milking your film degree a bit much. Do what you wanna do, but my advice FWIW is take down the pretentious intellectual BS a notch and stop revi ewing ridiculous films and content

[@kalebmark2908]

fuck off