Mirage F1CE Aerial Combat Dynamics and Analysis (DCS)

[@Youda00008]

I love the AoA indicator next to the HUD, i wish all planes had it.

[@nath-hh2ff]

I've been loving the F1 so far! It's my 3rd module I started dcs with the Kurfurst to Tiger and now F1. It's so much more complicated than the f5 and likes to fight in such a different way. I'll be honest it's going to take me a good number of hrs to get my head around the Mirage. I'm really liking your videos on the F1. I say keep them coming I need all the help I can get.

[@FSX404]

F-5 is fly-by-wire so its somewhat computer controlled, F.1 is pure pilot controlled, nothing to save you from overpulling or making a mistake. F.1 is much harder to fly. They also have different wings, F-5 has that tapered wing great for 1-circle fights, the F.1 has the classic swept wing,, which is not the best for 1-circle. Very similar as to acceleration, altitude, etc, both feel underpowered against the MiG19 or 21, but where F-5 can do that one circle turn and get even something like a Tomcat, the F.1 is stuck in a 2 circle fight, or modified zoom and boom. Where you have to be a lot more disciplined.

[@devilshermannmatern6380]

No fly by wire on the F-5E, that was only added when making it into the F-20.

[@FSX404]

@@devilshermannmatern6380 F-5 in DCS has something FBW like at least. Whether realistic or not, I have no idea

[@sildurmank]

@@FSX404 Some augmentation system, dampers and the like, but no FBW at all, it's only some help with the otherwise mechanical controls almost impossible to operate by human force alone, but no FBW, that's a whole different thing. Neither F1 or F-5 ever sported FBW nor anything alike, and since those systems are supported by left engine in the F-5, some accidents are known to have happened due to left engine failure so the controls augmentation system stopped working. Anyway, whatever it is, nice vids on F1, I like your analysis and all. Keep them coming.

[@crazygmanssimstuff]

I find fuel management important when knife fighting in the F1...You don't want to hit the merge with full internal fuel, and it carries a lot of it.

[@IYeSICMF04]

Most competent module overview (analysis) on KZbin, like to watch it! On 06:10 you overstress the aircraft - guess one day it will start to break on 10+g (i`ve read that real F-1 has about 7g limit).

[@FSX404]

7.5 Gs + another 20% safety margin. That pull was ok, around 7-8 Gs

[@martinlagrange8821]

This is a great video - it emphasises everything I have heard directly from F-1 pilots - that is is like a super-fast WWII fighter, or a supersonic Sabre. As a result, boom-and-zoom and two-circle, use of combat flaps - WWII fighter tactics I am very familiar with - are total winners.

[@Corsair8X]

So damn helpful. Frankly, I think I learned a bunch of stuff with respect to just dogfighting in any aircraft.

[@wabbit234]

This looks like a lot of fun.

[@paulvohs9889]

I'm really glad to see this sort of analysis! Thanks for making it :) How do you know or determine that max rate speed is 430 knots? I didn't find much online when searching for turn performance, and wasn't sure of how to test it out repeatably in game.

[@FSX404]

I tested it. 430 was the best sustained turn on this module as is now. I'll have a video once I complete the anaysis for 5K, 15K and 25K. It also corresponds to some data I gathered from a few fighterpilots. It may be a bit premature, but also looks like it may underperform a bit in below and above peak sustained turn rates. We'll see after I'm doing closer testing. But from 390-460 appears accurate.

[@paulvohs9889]

​@@FSX404 Cool! Looking forward to seeing that :)

[@ChickentNug]

Thanks for the tips!

[@thefrencheagle]

Ihave had my first step on coldwar PvP server with the Mirage F1. I am struggling a lot with the merge against MIG. I'm used to play on "modern" servers with the f-16/f-18... where bug out and high altitude is not an option for merge due to missile efficiency (aim-9x / aim-120c). I will try the tactics you showed in this video. Thanks you

[@FSX404]

If there are head to head missiles, then this wont work either, but nothing really does unless there's a miss.

[@rafaelreyes9905]

Awesome analysis, would like to see you vs Growling Sidewinder both in F.1s.

[@FSX404]

It would be a very boring fight to watch compared to his other dogfights

[@rafaelreyes9905]

@@FSX404not boring at all! Two good pilots fighting each other. That's a lot of learning to everyone who likes the F.1.

[@FSX404]

@@rafaelreyes9905 just come to my server, and we'll fly go thru situations, you'll learn a lot more than from watching two guys fight.

[@rafaelreyes9905]

@@FSX404 I will as soon as I get a good PC to play DCS

[@Kingonads]

In the overshoot at the end, why not switch to Fox-2 and hit him with that. He would be in perfect position for a heater up the tail pipe? Especially with the heavy rounds of the Defa 30mm cannons. They are good but I found them better in the high speed close range shots.

[@FSX404]

Cause its not about beating the AI, it was about showing how to fly the F.1. I had plenty of missile shots, but that doesnt teach anything. I can shoot the AI MiG19 in 25 seconds with a missile, but thats not the point.

[@FSX404]

I just tired it, going for a quick kill and would have had it in seconds, just pressed the missile at the wrong time (see the video by link). This is why Israelis were so good, they knew other pilots and other planes and could get them quick in their Mirage IIIs and Kfirs kzbin.info/www/bejne/apLPgpmFpNl9rrc

[@Kingonads]

Just wanted to know the thought process on why you chose to stick with guns in a missile situation. But I am coming from the point of view of using the DCS Mirage 2000c which has the same Defa 30mm cannons.

[@FSX404]

@@Kingonads noticed the 30 mm beast eh? Lol. For these types of videos I always use guns only, it makes for better training. Even on my server, I usually have us fight guns only because it trains you to fly not just fire a missile. Once in a PvP server, get them fast anyway you can. But we always train harder so the duels are easier.

[@Kingonads]

@@FSX404 The Defa 30mm cannon is nasty, but so is the 23mm on the MiG and Su... an JF... But it is a heavier round it has some pretty poor long range ballistics. Now in a close in knife fight it is a great round. While it lacks the ammo capacity of the M61 Vulcan on most US fighters it is far more capable in killing a multitude of targets. My training is a little different than yours. Guns is nice, but in modern combat you train like you fight. If you train to rely on guns then unfortunately your first instinct is to go to guns when you have a perfectly good missile to get the job done. The goal is you land back your airfield and they are riding the yeet seat.

[@Rokaize]

What exactly is a 1 circle or 2 circle fight? I’m a DCS helicopter player like 95% of the time so I’m not exactly sure what you mean by those terms

[@FSX404]

After merging planes turn one way or the other, if they both turn the same way, they are chasing each others tail, this is 2-circle. If they turn opposite, one left, other right, they are turning toward each others nose, thats a 1-circle

[@Rokaize]

@@FSX404 Ok, I think I understand. So what you’re saying is that the mirage is good at that opening aspect of a dogfight? But that it isn’t as good at doing a back and forth turning fight like a traditional dogfight would be ?

[@FSX404]

@@Rokaize not at all. You are thinking of dogfighting as a who turns best. Dogfighting is complex and dynamic. Some planes are good at slow turning, but that is the simplest move. Dogfighting is knowing where ypur plane is best and where it beats the other plane. In case of the F1 its best at high speed fighting (450 kts). If some noob wants to turn with you, you let him turn and slow down, you speed up get above him and pick him off at will, cause if he isbslow, he cant point the nose up or get you while you swoop down and get him like a sitting duck. So, start thinking of a dogfight in bigger sense. German Fw190 Doras were fast but couldnt turn, they would do a pass taking shots with big guns and egress before any plane could follow, then turn around further away and do it again. Not until a fast P-51D came along could the Dora be challenged. In a dogfight, speed is almost always better than turning. So now think of the F1, its a decent turner at 300 kts, but its strength is in speed.

[@Rokaize]

@@FSX404 Well I meant a back and forth turning fight as an example, of course there is a lot more to it than that. I see your point though. I’ve been testing it out and have had pretty good luck staying at 400-450 instead of 300ish knots and not committing to any intense maneuvers. Like how you mostly did in the video. If you could do any more videos with the F1 that would be great. It’s a unique plane and learning more on how to fight with it would be of interest to a lot of people I’m sure.