Misogyny & The Decreasing Relevance Of Kpop Boy Groups

[@jooniecbz3832]

Hot take I think it's because the 3rd generation boygroups (BTS, Seventeen, NCT 127) are still going so strong that Korea has no real need or desire to find "the next big thing" whereas the general public pick and choose their new favorite girl group every 3 weeks because of all the points this person in the video made, girl groups as a whole make music that is much more digestible, trendy, and catchy, whereas (in my opinion) boygroups are given way more artistic freedom (Ateez, Stray Kids, TXT, etc) so their music is catered towards a smaller audience. I'm not saying that girl groups are less talented/creative, or that boygroups don't make mainstream music, I just mean in the grand scheme of things, that is the case.

[@Stay_wuth]

I totally agree with you ❤

[@nounou-cp9vj]

verry well said 👏exactly what I was thinking

[@wealldieinsomniarmy2806]

Actually I was surprised to realize that homophobia in kpop is huge.

[@alb91878]

Many many countries and cultures hate the LGBTQIA+ community. In some countries they're still beaten to death if found out, to this day. It's horrible!

[@aimansaari9408]

@@alb91878 honestly today is not that harsh , currently many country are open even they legalize same sex like thailand and the latest even in south korea

[@alb91878]

@@aimansaari9408 that's true for some countries, but it's not like that in the middle east or certain parts of India or Africa. Russia isn't to friendly about them either.

[@Oklik2503]

@@alb91878 Did you come up with this about Russia? Don’t write nonsense, if Russia treated LGBTQIA+ people poorly, there wouldn’t be the artists that exist now. Russia is full of LGBTQIA+ artists, cultural figures and actors. You know, in the USA they treat LGBTQIA+ people no better, although they always deny it. In Russia, no one will insult or beat you if you are LGBTQIA+, where do such myths come from?

[@alb91878]

@@Oklik2503 oh look a typical person who is offended that someone has an opinion different from theirs. You don't have to like my opinion and you don't have to agree with it, but that doesn't make it nonsense or a myth. Stop being an ass! Just because they're not all beaten to death and completely wiped off the planet doesn't mean that those countries support them and haven't beaten people of the LGBTQIA+ community to death. Typical "well, it didn't happen to me or someone in my personal bubble therefore it didn't happen!" response.

[@malakelabbadi04]

11:12 i dont think that's the case tbh, people having a problem with men being feminine is often rooted in both homophobia and misogyny; hatred towards women therefore hatred towards everything feminine rather than women complaining about that, a lot of women dress masculine and it's a lot more acceptable in society, talking from experience.

[@lilydragoneel4170]

Was going to say this too! While doing some research into sexism and misogyny for school, I came to realize just how much internalized misogyny I had growing up. Trying to avoid saying that I liked the colour pink, avoiding getting into 1D in elementary school cuz I didn't want to be viewed as a superficial, crazy fangirl....anything associated with women is viewed as "lesser-than" compared to the things that are associated with men. Even the Beatles were viewed as "terrible" when they started out with a primarily female fanbase and that only changed once men started taking an interest in them. When Barbie came out, I saw a lot of women express how it felt like healing their inner-child to wear pink without embarrassment. So, it is an interesting perspective on this whole thing.

[@stacie1595]

It's also why trans women get so much more hate compared to trans men. To cis transphobic men, it's almost insulting to masculinity to want to give it up and assume the traits of what they perceive as the interior gender. But afab people transitioning into men just makes sense. Of course they want to join the "winning team"

[@Ophirtivian]

​@@lilydragoneel4170nope sexist are rooted from women specially on school, why teachers only targeting boys on school eventhough they didn't do anything they always being disrespected by teachers, majority of teachers are women, also college universities are feminized, why people hate feminine men? Society will not functioning if we let this women poison the minds of men to become feminine, world will not have a strong masculine men if men didn't even do a simple problem solving in their life

[@karla6479]

I personally don't think it's a "boygroups are losing relevance" thing, but a "girlgroups are finally getting their space in the industry." Boygroups are still relevant and popular, no girl group can compete with their sales. But now, people are FINALLY giving girl groups the relevance they've deserved from beginning. And it's like that in every area you mentioned, its not that women are more popular than men nowadays, its just that women are getting the SAME amount of popularity that men have always gotten. That have never happened before so those who were getting all the attention years ago are feeling less appreciated, however, in reality they still as popular.

[@nickeypamphile4588]

Thank you for your comment. Well written.

[@wealldieinsomniarmy2806]

@@karla6479 I couldn't convey this perfectly

[@thewaytheworldisrn7788]

​NGL girl group fans aren't as loyal as boy group fans, people be switching girl group favs every other day.. so there's that

[@karla6479]

@thewaytheworldisrn7788 I kinda agree with you but i think that's a minor issue. There's way more concept options to choose between ggs than bgs imo, but in that case I'm being kind biased cuz I'm not a big bg person. The video said something abt it that i agree, bg fans usually stans the members first and then their music, while gg fans likes their music first and then the members, so it makes sense that if the concept changes ggs stands wont be as interested anymore. I also don't see a problem in liking different things at different phases of your life.

[@scrapsbyalmedina]

thiiiiiiis!!!! you put my thoughts into wordssss, i completely agree with this

[@erica_s2]

I think an important thing to recognize is the term "cultural relevancy" in kpop more often than not means the cultural relevancy in Korea, not the entire world. This is just my interpretation from what I've seen from learning about Korean culture for the past couple years and I could be completely incorrect, but when it comes to their media and entertainment, Koreans love more feminine and soft things. That's why the groups with the more cute innocent feminine concepts get the most attention. Like (G)-idle isn't big in Korea at all, but they don't do those concepts. Neither do Dreamcatcher and they're not big in Korea either. New Jeans is the epitome of the soft feminine concept and they went huge. Boy groups in general appeal more to the western world because we like the darker and edgier concepts and that's what they generally stick to. But if you look at the boy groups that are bigger in Korea, like TXT, TWS, or Seventeen, they have softer, cuter concepts more than the darker edgier concepts that Ateez or Stray Kids generally stick to. Personally, I think Kpop companies have to choose whether to primarily appeal to Korean or Western audiences. Things that go big in Korea, generally will naturally gain traction world wide because kpop fans enjoy knowing what's going on Korea, but it's different than creating super strong international fanbases. Like I haven't met people who love New Jeans as much as Armies love BTS. Sure people love them and their music, but the dedication to their group is different when the groups have focused their appeal to international audiences. So while I think the point that the person making the video made is interesting, I don't think the lack of concept possibilities actually is the main contributing factor for the decreasing relevance of boy groups. I just think that kpop had such a large focus on gaining international love and support during the end of third generation through the 4th generation, and companies saw that there was a market that they were missing out on, their own home turf, and started capitalizing on that. It's all about making money. If a company like HYBE capitalizes on the international market with their boy groups like BTS, TXT, Enhypen, Seventeen, etc and dominates the domestic market with New Jeans, Le Sserafim, Illit, etc they get more money and that's really all they care about

[@myhopeisjhope8315]

(g)i-dle are popular in Korea tho

[@Wonyluvstaybunnie]

In my opinion skz has gotten a lot more well know and all that from the vmas and also the met gala and they are definitely taking after bts and seventeen

[@Stay_wuth]

❤ well said hun

[@lunerlilly]

ATEEZ is as well. Both groups are doing a great job at opening doors

[@l0velyfl0wer]

Stray Kids are definitely at the top of the industry nowadays

[@boricuagirlie2002]

Well said

[@Oklik2503]

I think that Stray Kids looked at the mistakes of BTS and Seventeen and went a different way, they did not limit themselves to promoting in the USA and adapt to the Western market; they are more active than others in promoting in Japan, Asia and Latin America. (What is the meaning of the current tour and the countries they will go to and where they have been before.

[@minniespuppy]

idk about other groups so ill speak from a skz centred place. • skz are not very popular in Korea, not in terms of failing to fill seats at fan meetings and concerts because they always sell them out, but in terms of streams especially from the general public. we have fully accepted that skz music isnt and hasnt been for the ears of the general public. even in terms of promotions from jype they have started to put more effort into international promotions compared to domestic promotions. • on the music production part, skz mentioned (in the ate intro iirc) that they tried to make music that was close to the ‘trendy’ music of today, but it didnt sound like stray kids music. now because they are adamant to sticking to what they want to do and their fans love it, even when they do attempt to change styles there will still be that Stray Kids sound. • but as you said at the end its what people want. some people will stick with girl group music, some with boy group and those who dont have a preference. as long as the music you listen to is enjoyable whether the group is number one everywhere or is completely unknown it shouldnt matter.

[@bhagwatigarg]

You r absolutely right ..that's why I love skz...look in festa 2022 BTS breakdown on festa...rm himself said after releasing pop sounds they don't know what type of group they r..but I guess when BTS comeback they will go on their own BTS sound...like take two and run BTS... It's fun to listen every genres..skz have perfect ability to dominate the world with world sound..gen z sound...I am proud of those two groups stray kids and BTS.

[@wealldieinsomniarmy2806]

I've realized that bg tapping in to their feminine side may not be taken well largely because of homophobia and also how feminity has always been negatively viewed ( weakness etc). I hope I'm making sense 😅 This was an interesting video

[@carolinesch.]

17:45 yeah and also with that y2k rise lets remember what the 2000s had a lot of? Girlgroups in the west, destinies child, pu.ssycat Dollar, spice girls, atomic kitten etc.

[@againstanti-korea4.0]

æspa - Spice Girls KISS OF LIFE - The Pu.ssycat Dolls BABYMONSTER - Destiny's Child

[@ariprincxss]

idk i think stray kids COULD do something similar to sneakers or the “girly pop” vibes but they don’t WANT to! and i especially believe this cuz 1) they make their own music completely 2) they recently stated they’ve tried popular pop styles of music but they didn’t really like it 3) they’ve repeatedly showed that they can cover and perform popular GG songs and not “masculinize” them. idk much about other groups but because i’m such a fan of and biased towards SKZ i think of videos like this through the angle of SKZ. they’re constantly doing their own thing and have a distinct sound that i think is not replicable and while theyre pretty masculine they’re not afraid to tap into femininity (hyunjin & felix especially) with their style. i guess they’re not as famous as girl groups and older boy groups but they’ve often been called the “next bts” even though they reject that title as they’re heavy on being their own identity . i’m def being biased cuz i’m not into many groups like i am SKZ but i believe that of the most globally popular groups rn they’re one of the few with deeper meanings to their lyrics and concepts than “were cool and successful” or anything romance.

[@DaddiesLittlePsycho]

No no, they arent as famous as Girl groups or some other boy groups IN KOREA. They ARE the second most famous kpop boy group WORLDWIDE. And third most famous kpop all together. (This is the result of the averaging of all aspects. Sales, streams, subscribers, public voting, winning important awards both foreign and domestic, MV views, and concert/festival draw... their rank in all of those areas and more, averaged out, puts them in the 3rd position with only BTS and Blackpunk agead of the....both of whome have had more time to get where they are, so SKZ are perfectly on track to be the bext massive world success.

[@supersucks]

I honestly think Skz is moving now though, listen to Runners in their newest album ATE. It’s literally drum and bass just like how the garage sound of pinkpantheress and newjeans was made but with a skz flair

[@l0velyfl0wer]

Case 143 and Maxident album is right there

[@RUKA_BABYMONST7R]

​@ReapingWillow twice is 4th now right?

[@adelaidebierhoff]

​@@RUKA_BABYMONST7Ryes

[@corcordium42]

It’s almost a sin to have Felix as clickbait and not admit that SKZ are at the forefront of 4th gen(along with Aespa and maybe NJ). On average a lot more girls apply as trainees, making quantity and quality the upper-hand GGs have. Of course kpop companies will focus more on them as they’re more profitable. What do BigBang, BTS and SKZ have in common? They don’t rely on their company to be given songs but instead create their own unique and versatile music. As far as I know Ateez also makes their music and they have the necessary strong stage presence but because they don’t come from a big company they will naturally at times fall short in terms of promotion when compared to let’s say Le Seraphim. Also noise music is definitely not the only thing Stray Kids like to make but it definitely comes in handy when they hype the crowd at festivals and stadiums. That’s why GGs tend to disband earlier. If they can’t sell out their albums and concerts globally or at least in Asian countries then the company cannot cover their music production costs.

[@Shresh_here1411]

Well said and I totally agree with the first line

[@V_L07]

right? Still crazy, SKZ is sooo huge xD

[@RUKA_BABYMONST7R]

Yeah when it comes to international skz definitely leads. But domestically it's def some other groups

[@emilyanneaurelius]

Yes! The girl groups are so creative with their branding & I love their styling. I think there's a crazy emphasis placed on visuals right now too.

[@Ophirtivian]

Girl groups didn't create anything they just undergo trainee when they accepted all of concepts, genres, productions, lyrics and merch already prepared by their agencies and companies where boy groups tend to be abandoned and let them create alone all of their needs to produce music even dance they need to create their own dance

[@alb91878]

I agree with so many people in the comment section. They all have very valid points. I also think another thing could be a part of it as well. Guys have been in the forefront for so many years , even decades. A lot of times when that happens it's really hard for women to have a chance at the spotlight or get to the front stage so to speak, maybe now after all this time women are actually starting to get their dues and get credit for the talent that they have as well. Maybe it's kind of like an acceptance tour, and after a while of them being in the front or enjoying the spotlight it may dial back for the women and then come back forward for the guys and they may end up on an even playing field where everybody gets a fair play and the same attention or the men may take the reins again for a little while.

[@karla6479]

@alb91878 I honestly think it is a bit annoying when people see those women in the spotlight and claim that it's unfair with boygroups or even that they're only there because of their looks, like??? I'm reading through the comments, and that's 80% of what I see. It's so funny cuz girlgroups were in the shadows being mistreated by the industry for DECADES and now that they're finally getting the recognition and respect they deserve people still find it hard to believe that's from their own merit and talent.

[@alb91878]

@@karla6479 I completely agree with what you're saying and it does piss me off as well! I'm not trying to be controversial, but it's kind of like the race war here in the states. You have the one group that has had the upper hand for so many decades, even centuries and now that those of us who haven't had the upper hand starting to get a little bit more respect and inching towards an even playing field, those who have always had the upper hand have the nerve to get upset or feel uncomfortable / threatened by it. As far as what you said about people saying that it's because of their looks and things like that, that's another thing that upsets me as well. That's the thing with misogyny in society. Women have only been valued by their looks, their fertility, and the acts they perform in the bedroom since the dawn of time. As soon as we're seen as more than that, there's upset, rage, gender bashing, dismissiveness, and a strong need for the opposition to discredit everything we are and do that doesn't fit the mould we were involuntarily shoved into.

[@karla6479]

@@alb91878 I absolutely agree with you

[@motiiiii2774]

In my opinion, the success of a song nowadays mostly depends on the visual and the way the concept looks, and not much attention is paid to the sound of the song itself. I feel that good music is now recognized by its good visuals, not the lyrics or the content of the music, and I'm not saying that girl groups don't have good music, but in my opinion, the visual power of their songs is more than the power of their music I'm saying this as my experience of being a kpop fan for years

[@cgchavez]

I agree, as a man when I first started out with kpop I realized I was more drawn to the girl groups, however I would never listen to their songs without visuals or videos that I could watch where they showed themselves. When I started listening to BTS and many other boy groups I found I actually liked their music and would actually listen to it without the need to watch their mvs.

[@motiiiii2774]

Yeah that's exactly what I mean... It's like that for myself too. Usually I don't listen to a song of a girl group in Spotify or apple music not because their not good or something like that but because in my opinion without its mv they are not complete and i can't get the vibe of it.... But about boy groups I most of the time even if I don't watch mvs I can feel the song itself

[@aimansaari9408]

cause bg songs sound same and concept, and some of them kinda boring

[@cgchavez]

@@aimansaari9408 The same could also be said for girlgroups

[@motiiiii2774]

​@@aimansaari9408 actually i don't know why you saying this under my comment cuz What I said has nothing to do with what you said... But about what you said of course there are songs that are boring not only in boy groups, even in girl groups with all that different concepts... But what I'm saying is that in my opinion what really makes a song a good song is its content and lyrics even if the concept is the same and kinda boring...i prefer to listen to a song with a perfect lyricism and a boring concept like love and stuff like this, not a song with a veeery good concept and a perfect visual and a Contentless lyric and content.... And of course there are gg that have really really good songs that i love but there are few of them

[@schneeling]

I'm not sure if I entirely agree... If a song is good it deserves recognition, no matter if it's a girlgroup, a boygroup or a soloist. I don't feel like that's the case right now (and it may have been the same before, but that's no excuse in my opinion) For example: I'm not really interested in award shows and stuff, but the one time I looked up the results for one it was like 90% girl grous and I really felt like that's not fair. To be honest it made me kinda mad as there were several great boygroup songs that came out that year too :-/ I agree with many other things that were said though, the video was still very interesting

[@treubaking]

Of course it deserves its popularity if it’s actually a good song, but at the end of the day many girl groups actually rely on the power of visuals. It’s not a diss at any gg, nor is it saying none of them have talent. I’m saying many groups will go viral and popular for their looks rather their talent. Girls are simply taking over because women have been pushing the entertainment/music industry since Beyoncé came in.

[@sarahTVBOX]

honestly speaking, i prefer boy groups to girl groups songs/concepts/music... it speaks more to me and my style/liking... i find myself liking girl group members when they do solo projects more than when they're in their groups (ie: seulgi & irene, lisa, etc) and the gg that i LOVE are the vibes of dreamcatcher, mamamoo, g-idle (even though i wasn't really a fan of their queencard era) just give me dark concepts and i'm in, boy or girl groups.

[@hocusfocus4853]

In my opinion I think newer boygroups are finally taking on more feminine concepts 5th gen groups like Zerobaseone and NCT Wish are examples of this just look at Wish’s styling it’s full of color, frills, and the occasional leg warmer all things typically worn by female idols. Zerobaseone as well with not just concepts but members with Hanbin specializing in wacking a dance form most associated with the gay community and ballroom or Taerae more feminine mannerisms that he himself said he would stop and be more masculine but fans both told him they love him the way he is. The main thing stopping these boy groups from taking on these concepts is the fact that Korea is a conservative country and Korea is the home market. Another factor is the fact that the queer community and femininity are gaining more traction for better or worse and companies know that there is money in those markets right now

[@Moomoo0013]

I also saw that thumbnail too Sebastine! I've been into the kpop genre for 6 years now. Initially, I was always more of a boy group fan - I liked crushing on the guys (LOL)- but I thought there was more creativity AND I hated seeing girls presented as only "cute" or "sexy". But as time passed, and 4th gen stepped into the forefront, I noticed a shift where female groups started "owning themselves" and became representatives for "girl power" (i.e. girl crush concepts)... and I became more intrigued with the girl groups. I think it's important to understand that society has an impact on entertainment. In the recent decade, women have regained more control over the narrative of "what it's like to be a woman". We've seen this in their courage to speak up for themselves, especially in deleterious situations, where men are usually the perpetrators (i.e. ME TOO movement) and in entertainment spaces, like in rap music, where female rappers are "owning the game" and are dominating, in a space that was previously so male-coded and misogynistic. These are movements that resonate globally with women, and so, naturally, I think if that is reflected in music, they are more likely to be in tune with that. The main reason why the male groups are falling back nowadays is simply because of their content. We're no longer in the days where men serenading their love to women is enough to make them stay interested... women now are growing more and more independent, more of a main character, instead of the side character to the man. The majority of music from men has always focused more on female attention... so you can imagine, if the majority of women are no longer interested in that narrative, the audience for those groups begins to diminish. In becoming more of a main character, women are now coming into themselves more and are able to creatively express deeper, more taboo subjects (i.e. G-IDLE, LE SSERAFIM, NewJeans), so we're now seeing an abundance of that. Also - this is a side point, but VERY relevant- men with power in the music industry have CONSISTENTLY been proven to do TERRIBLE things to women (i.e. Burning Sun Scandal in Korea, the Diddy trafficking situation, R. Kelly, etc). Men used to get away with these kinds of things for a long time. But because of the internet and quick, widespread information, we are only JUST now realizing just how prevalent it is. We now have more access to the knowledge of what these individuals are doing... and are starting to make our own decisions on whether their morality affects our relationship with their music... and if we want to continue listening to them. I think that's really what is going on here. At the end of the day, listen to what you want. I personally don't think holding a "bad track record of men" to the boy groups is fair to them... particularly those that work hard and are morally apt. I will always love BTS, EXO, Monsta X, ATEEZ, Stray Kids and Seventeen. But I'm allowing myself to listen more to what the girls have to say, as we all should. Love me some LE SSERAFIM, GIDLE, Red Velvet, BLACKPINK and NewJeans!! It's about time these girl groups had the megaphone. Very curious to see where this leads in the future.

[@_harley_1288]

Love this take! Specifically the part about women no longer being interested by men serenading them!

[@ateezring]

I think the original creator forgot to mention that the majority of kpop fans are girls and not to dive into the sexuality aspects or whatever because that’s not the point, but the majority of kpop boy stans view their idols through a romantic lens, and i am not saying that in a creepy way, it’s genuinely the way boy idols are viewed as boyfriend material or husband material. There are boy group female fans that do not stan because of looks, don’t get me wrong, but A huge chunk of every boy group’s fandom also find their members attractive (respectfully). Not saying their fans don’t also enjoy their music, but as the og creator said, boy idols are first VIEWED as individuals, audiences notice certain members, their personalities and/or physical appearances first and then get into the group and the music , while girl groups are first noticed by their concepts and music. Not saying one is more talented than the other is just a difference between how the public first perceives them . with girl groups, of course there are gonna be female fans that find them attractive THAT IS FINE, but the majority of female girl group fans view them through this “besties,girl code” lense.

[@AriaKSongPrincess]

Boys have their version of Itzy's "Sneakers." It's called "Baggy Jeans."

[@forgedEnt]

disclaimer: i can only speak from my perspective and my group. double disclaimer: long paragraph about ateez. as an atiny, i think I just want kq to change formula and get the boys to higher stakes. Yes, we have seen jongho high notes in songs, and don't get me wrong that man has some skill and its wild that he had all that power in him from the beginning. but we just want to see a new voice or type of range from jongho, and the rest of ateez members to have a chance in this. so many times people have said "jongho is he only one that can hold ateez" when we as atiny's might know that's not true but if we don't see like a title track from them where it is showcasing the other members, then i feel like yeah that will give the other people that same feeling over and over again. not to mention jongho needs rest in songs. also it's become quite obvious that kq's production has a formula to making ateez music, and I can't tell if there afraid to change it at all. I love all of the things ateez put out. but i just wish that ateez were able to explore more vocally. like seonghwa has an amazing rap vocal, and yeosang is an amazing deep voice. wooyoung has that breathy sound. hongjoong and mingi can both sing like actually singers despite it possibly being hard for there vocal patterns. jongho has done a amazing lower tones. san is deserving of an award from his breathy high notes. yunho could do so much more with his voice than just a deep voice or middle ranged voice. let that man shine. that man is the most underrated in terms of vocal conversations and dance practices. so im just trying to understand if kq knows what there doing at all and I wonder when kq is going to change it's formula towards ateez.

[@bgahjs]

you mentioned everyone but yunho...... but yea i agree

[@forgedEnt]

@@bgahjs I will write him in, im so sorry i didnt add him. i promise i didnt mean too.

[@wealldieinsomniarmy2806]

I find it strange that people who are in the entertainment industry (kpop etc) are told what to wear or whether they should have make up or not because I used to think that entertainment industry is generally secular meaning anything is possible. I don't know if It makes sense

[@Imberis]

I think it has a lot to do with Korean culture, which is still pretty conservative even if you're in the entertainment industry. There are tons of social rules that you can't break if you want to remain famous/relevant.

[@Gaby-df4ge]

Well I just listen to the music, I don’t like the idea of being a girl group or boy group Stan, personally I think is a little weird not listening there music just because they are man or woman , but diving in the internet I have found a lot of gg Stan’s that are openly hating on boy groups just because, even boycotting them , it feels too much, so yah think some of those don even give the chance to a boy group song. In the other way, I think people just hate women, or anything related to us, I have seen some more non convencional masculine idols get hate for being femenine and asumming they are gay just because of that, and in the side of the girls, every single hyperfeminine idol like Yuna or Wonyoung are called pick me, most of those haters are women that are insecure or jealous or man that just hate femininity, and some of those girls unfortunately are boy group stans, so yeah I think is really problematic this polarization of girl groups and boy groups For me some really cutural relevant bg songs are lovesong from txt, fever from enhypen, gods menu by stray kids but none of those charted as high as the girl group song in Korea

[@manale9366]

True, i like both and don’t get that vs thing many

[@karla6479]

@Gaby-df4ge I'm not a big fan of boygroups myself for some reason I find it really hard to relate to them, I like some of their music but I'm not really interested in getting to know them and big part of the reason is some of their fans. Many female idols get sl*tshamed by the community for just interacting with a male idol, even the simplest thing turns into a massive hate wave against ggs, it's really sad that the majority of them are women hating women. And I personally have never seen that happening the other way around (because of interactions and stuff like that), which I might be wrong, but it's always from bg stans to female idols and I believe thats also a reason why bg and gg stans are so polarized.

[@g100-w6j]

​@@karla6479 then you haven't seen gg stans do the same (arguably even worse) to other ggs and female stans lol

[@yooseoyeonz]

as a lesbian woman who's been into kpop since 2015 i've witnessed all these changes, i'm a girl group stan but i also listen to some boy groups and in my honest general opinion i just think that this new wave of boy groups are lacking creativity and not being able to stand out because they're not pushing outside of the box. the big criticism that ggs used to get was that they weren't doing anything outside of the "girly" "cutesy" "innocent" concepts and if u look at them now they're doing every single concept and they're not scared to experiment outside of the box that they used to be trapped in, whilst the bgs weren't being criticized at all they're now the ones getting the same type of criticism and i think the solution lies on the same thing, they need to step outside of the "middle school boys" vibes that their concepts reek of and by that i don't mean cute concepts i mean the "here's my abs" and "we're on top we're the best" (idk how else to explain it) and start bringing back old concepts that people love or bring something new to the table.. i love bgs like exo for that reason, i love kai as a soloist cuz look at the range!! making grown men music, real music! or tap into cute concepts like the ones seventeen brought back in 2015.. this is why i also been supporting zb1 recently cuz they seem like the only current bg that aren't scared of bringing a variety of concepts and music all in all i don't think this is a BIG issue it's just that the girls are doing it and they're doing it better and it's time for them to shine as they should, it doesn't mean that the bgs are not relevant anymore or that they're bad. if the industry in general starts to get worried about this though the solution is not hard..

[@QueenYanna18]

honestly my take as someone who has been into kpop for the past 11 years is that girl groups are have gradually snd successfully began to get the attention of young girls en masse in a way they never did before. like girl groups have always been popular with the general public but the fandom aspects of kpop have always been spearheaded by young girls who traditionally have been into boy groups (which you can tell by physical album sales versus streams) with the 4th gen a lot more girl groups started being marketed specifically to young girls over grown men (at least on the surface) which has been very helpful in increasing their relevancy in the public eye (think ive, new jeans, le serrafim) meanwhile the 3rd gen boy groups like bts, seventeen, nct, and exo have been going so strong that in comparison 4th gen boy groups have had an uphill battle gaining public attention. as a staytiny, i feel like both skz and ateez (along with txt and other 4th gen bgs) have only recently been gaining general public widespread relevance

[@carolinesch.]

For me its also that the 4th gen gg took over and have more numbers than 3rd gen, but bg dont, svt,bts are still going strong and nobody suprpassed their numbers

[@DaddiesLittlePsycho]

What "numbers" are you talking about exactly? Lol

[@jungkookiejean]

@@DaddiesLittlePsychojust like what the video said, svt and bts along with txt and straykids strive with their album sales. Txt and Straykids both chart their albums at #1 on the BB Hot 200 (TXT with 1 album and SKZ with 3 albums). Svt, Straykids, Txt and BTS and BTS Solos average 2mil or 3 mil in the first week or first day of release and continue to sell so much. I dont know if this is acceptable as "numbers" but since bts is so established, their solo music especially the maknae line still charts so high on streaming platforms especially in the US. They all entered all the songs of their respective albums on itunes, apple music, spotify. (JK as the fastest song with seven to reach 1B streams on spotify. He also has the highest 1st day streaming debut as seven garnered 16m) Common knowledge BTS in the only group to ever chart at #1 on the BB HOT100 with 6 songs and 10 top 10 hits on the Hot100. Jimin is also the first kpop soloist to chart at number 1 on the BB hot 100. Jungkook also charted at #1 with Seven and #5 on both 3D and Standing next to you on BB hot 100. And from what I learned V, suga, Jhope and Rm also charted their songs on hot 100 as well as their albums on the Billboard 200. Now when we talk about numbers in concerts tickets, they also dont lack in that department. Svt just finished performing infront of 144,000 fans as they filled out Nissan stadium in japan. They also sold 110,000 ticket on their Stadium Nagai concert. BTS is also the first Kpop artist to sold out Sofi Stadium in LA and Allegiant Stadium in Lasvegas with four nights on each stadiums back in 2022 and then they also garnered 49+ million viewers for their last concert in BUSAN. Suga of BTS D-DAY Tour Becomes the Highest Grossing Tour by an Asian Soloist in US History, with $30.2 million from 151,000 tickets sold for just 11 shows. Suga also becomes the first Rapper to Earn Over $3M in a Single Arena Concert in US History.

[@anjanickel2132]

@@jungkookiejean SKZ has 4 albums on BB 200

[@RUKA_BABYMONST7R]

​@jungkookiejean this is all western chart tho right? Because as far as I remember skz hasn't had albums on #1 domestically. (No hate, I'm genuinely asking)

[@adelaidebierhoff]

​@@RUKA_BABYMONST7Rthey have no1 albums in Circle and Hanteo charts.

[@yoru19]

why would we want them to make more of the same ToT? I come from "dark" and heavy music, I never ever thought I'd be into kpop, dude I was a haterrrrrr but now I really enjoy Skz because they go hard, hell sometimes I even wish they would go harder . With skz record we also get shoegaze, dreampop, bubble pop, bedroom pop hahah 💁‍♂

[@mixedgems]

Love another Aussie 🇦🇺 as a reactor too! I think this is their best album to date for me, though I’ve loved most of their past content.

[@Andrea-ie9vm]

Honestly it would be awesome if a boy group would do something similar (lyrics and instrumental) like Aespa, New Jeans, or Gidle. Yes it is a very big big risk, but so many boy groups have shown amazing potential when they cover girl group songs like Twice. Boy groups have enough and have been trained enough to learn and adapt to girl group concepts like girl groups (like Everglow “First”) can adapt to boy group sounds. Again it’s a risk, a risk for hatred or just threats (these things happen quite often) but with Kpop spreading to international audiences and how society has changed. Some fans even like it when boys do aegyo (I hate any idol who does aegyo especially when they are 20+) I’m very sure people will “aww” or just get cuteness aggression. There are plenty of male idols who genuinely seem to enjoy dancing to girl group dances and songs, why not let them try it out at least once.

[@supersucks]

StrayKids has been doing this tho, the problem is that they only showcase it on their B-Side tracks so not many people know their versatility. Just in this album ATE - skz does a drum and bass track like pinkpantheress & newjeans with their song Runners. Take a listen. I recommend

[@saism4570]

I think to an extent it has to do with just how huge and relevant 3rd gen boygroups have managed to be in Korea and thus 4th gen bgs just didn't really garner attention and have a pull. TXT are the best performing 4th gen Boygroup in SK, but even then they still severely lack longevity on the charts as the gp isn't listening to their music. 5th gen boy groups are starting to pick up steam in South Korea now and less internationally.

[@ITZ_DARRIUSS]

Honestly the 4th gen has some great boy groups like stray kids .. Ateez .. The boyz… and many others

[@balkanbaroque]

Oh!

[@RUKA_BABYMONST7R]

Txt too

[@wealldieinsomniarmy2806]

I'm a kpop fan since 2015 and yeah I listen to GG's more these days because they release songs that I like or more to my taste.

[@wealldieinsomniarmy2806]

Also the concepts are enjoyable

[@Jing_Ling_Uncles]

I always like GG’s music, but GG music today aren’t my favorites. The empty choruses are just annoying rn. I’m listening to K-pop less and less these days and I think K-pop is actually dying. I’m hoping that GG come and save K-pop from BG

[@cgchavez]

@@Jing_Ling_Uncles Save kpop from BG? Boy groups have good messages and are also very talented so why hate on them?

[@l0velyfl0wer]

@@Jing_Ling_Unclesif anything, the girl groups are more targeting their music towards western media and losing the kpop sound. your comment makes no sense

[@aw-jp8ej]

I've been kpop fans since 2009 but I'm more into boy group songs such exo b side song, nct b side song, for girl group song I prefer Taeyeon solo songs than snsd

[@Ensbsixplss]

I like the rare masculinity that I find within Kpop, I'm not into admiration of feminine men even though I got nothing against those persons, I just don't enjoy watching them. being Kpop fan is difficult 😅

[@nickeypamphile4588]

He said one right thing , he thinks kpop have always been this way.

[@RUKA_BABYMONST7R]

For me its that my taste just isnt bg. My taste is hard to explain, but more ggs have, but sometimes bgs also have such a song and then it goes in my playlist. Also gg songs are easier to swallow even for casual listeners

[@Ophirtivian]

Yeah because boy groups create their own music that's why there's a complexities on their music unlike on girl group hired producers tend to make it simple and catchy so it will be marketable

[@RUKA_BABYMONST7R]

@Ophirtivian that's not true actually. Not all bg create their own music, and not all ggs have people create their music. It's just that ggs have a wider range of concepts that are used and their songs are just easier to swallow.

[@RUKA_BABYMONST7R]

@Ophirtivian also no one is stopping the bgs that create their own music from making something "simple and catchy", so that's also not really a good argument.

[@Ophirtivian]

@RUKA_BABYMONST7R nope you are baby monster stan, you know treasure right? They use to also produce baby monster song 1 member of treasure included to producing baby monster song I don't remember what song, what you mean by all bg's didn't create their own song nope because all of bg's that came from survival shows tend to have producers already stand by and eventually they still need to coorporate on producing their song like enhypen do now unlike on gg they don't "want" to participate on production, and by saying because gg's have wider concepts, boy groups tend to have a lot more concepts because they create their own productions most of boy groups always do this they suddenly change they usually do, and as I said boy groups putting too much complexities on their own music that's why some of gg stans can't comprehend on what sound it was or where this song going it's always unexpected while on gg it's always focusing on what's catchy because gg company producers wanted it to be marketable

[@Ophirtivian]

@RUKA_BABYMONST7R because they don't want to hop on trend they want to create their "own" sound just like what straykids do

[@shinestarcollections]

The reason why ggs are bigger is partially due to Kpop companies saturating the market. If big 3 companies and Hybe didn't debut a new bg every 10 business days we might get more variety. Thx to them, many small company groups aren't given much chance to shine. With ggs there weren't as many so more of them could make an impact. Even with the amount of bgs now, some companies still wish to debut more. Between that and the survival shows, where is the authenticity? There's not a lot of room for individualism when 100 plus bgs debut every year. Also SK likes softer concepts and a lot of bgs don't wish to do that. I actually prefer a harder concept but if done right I can enjoy it. Which brings me to this. As an Atiny, I love that my boys make the music they want. Because they've established themselves on Kpop they don't have to cater to the gp and they're ok with it. I believe because of their adaptability they will be able to weather the constant storm of boy groups debuting as well. No shades to the creator of perhaps they should look to some of the smaller company boy groups instead of always looking at the Big four. Shout out for mentioning Xikers and Evnne tho. Thanks for going through this Sebastian because I was hesitating to look at it

[@bismuthezoid]

This is what i think (and have seen from those around me) as a multistan: bg stans are usually loyal to their fav groups, like actual dedicated fans (hence the album sales being high) while gg stans mostly know the groups bc of their songs as casual listeners, and their internet persona. This is probably why trending song lists (youtube atleast) are always filled with gg songs, with bg popping up here and there and ggs being more widely known to the general public than bgs ps. Please take this as a grain of salt as this is just my take on the topic

[@hellopumpkin86]

BTS is my personal flavor when it comes to solo artists and boy groups. If the aspiring K-pop group isn’t at least 85% as strong as BTS, they don’t hold my attention for long. 4th and 5th Gen boy groups aren’t doing it for me. I can’t get into another boy group like I have with BTS. I’ve tried, it’s just not happening yet. lol

[@erica_s2]

I also think the fact that girl groups are primarily marketed for male appeal because men are way more likely to become fans, buy merch, etc for attractive women and women will be fans of both boy and girl groups regardless of who they're marketed for also accounts for cultural relevancy. I just went to Ateez's concert with my brother and he commented on the fact that he was pretty much the only non asian guy there who didn't look like he had been dragged there by their wife/girlfriend. Of course there are guys who like boy groups, but their numbers are pathetically small compared to men who like girl groups, especially in Korea

[@RUKA_BABYMONST7R]

As a male kpop fan I mostly agree with this. But I just seem to like ggs more mainly because; my female friends can't stop simping over bg idols and I've seen many other females on the internet simp over them aswell, so I would think like "I wouldn't fit in" if I were to be a fan of a bg they aren't as appealing to me😅. But that's just me

[@Nadya4cuties]

Hey, just a heads up im only 6 minutes in but i wanted to add my comment right now just in case i forget what i have in my mind. I dont know what has been discussed in the rest of the video so you might have already pointed this out but again, i havent watched it fully yet soooooo. But i think the main point of this discussion is that " relevancy of a group" for korea means how much it sticks with the folks. The more catchier the song the more it caters to the average korean. So, naturally the sounds that sticks with the Korea's average audience is gonna be relevant. And those stuff are (surprise surprise)ballads or bubblegum pop or other stuff that boy groups are mostly not releasing these days. Me myself is an exol and just look at the stuff that made them stand out in Korea, their ballads and stuff like growl or call me baby! For bigbang, it's the lyrics and the stage presence they bring to the table! To be able to move hearts! I agree with you on the point you made, they need to step up their game if they want recognition between ordinary folks. But hey, if they want to cater to a specific type of audience (aka their fandom) it's fine too! Because fandoms (if you establish a strong bond with them) are gonna have your back even if u don't wanna get everyone to listen to your music. They will appreciate you. It's just up to the team behind these groups to decide the intended audience I guess. Now, imma head off and watch the rest of the video lmao. Lots of love!❤

[@MrRdlv]

Back in 2010 when I first into kpop I feel like boygroups got better songs and girlgroups got leftovers. But nowadays, newer boygroups songs are unlistenable. Also the boygroup members from that era like el capitan, vendors, and simon jakops nowadays active as girl group songwriter mostly.

[@Staytinyzen]

I feel as though girl groups were always more relevant than boy groups In more opinion of course there are wildly boy popular groups such Bts or Seventeen.But also when you think girl groups have an advantage as well no military, more survival shows. Also a large distrust of male idols due to recent scandals like burning sun.

[@Lc-04.]

I never really paid attention to girls groups but what your saying makes sense the new girl groups are blowing up now compared to boys

[@shainyjana9534]

Gg mostly have songs which are easy to listen like Newjeans or illit. But boy groups are all have hard songs that are not for everyone. The people who likes noise or experimental likes bg. Also recently bgs like TWS, ZB1 and Riize are charting like ggs. Their songs are pretty simpleeasy listening.

[@l0velyfl0wer]

There are only 2 groups that come to mind when you say ‘hard songs’. NCT and Stray Kids. There are so many other boy groups, like the ones you mentioned, but your view has been clouded by the 2 most popular groups

[@Femboylindo]

Ateez is more popular than NCT internationally​@l0velyfl0wer

[@Sanatizer_1009]

not all bgs have a noise music sound for ex groups like: txt tws bnd zb1 don't really have really noise music

[@JDZ0221]

Hopefully my opinion makes sense but I think a lot of it has to do with the decreasing returns on Kpop in general. 3rd generation had a massive explosion in popularity and definitely benefited the most from the "Korean Wave". And let's be honest, the boy groups were the ones who really benefited the most from it. For every Blackpink and Twice, you had a BTS, EXO, NCT, GOT7, & Seventeen. Now that the industry is sort of "cooling off", I think many 3rd gen fans sort of locked into their groups and aren't really paying as much attention to the 4th and 5th gen groups. Those 3rd gen boy groups still have the industry in a chokehold now. Which makes it harder for most 4th and 5th gen groups to obtain the same kind of "cultural relevance". Meanwhile the girl group space seems to be a bit more up for grabs. Just my thoughts though.

[@kuroakikitsune]

I find it harder to get into girl groups. Idk what it is about their music, but it rarely appeals to me. But visuals, I think they're all really pretty.

[@Whee1ndmud]

Putting bts aside, it's been like this for a long time. Boy groups have the faithful fandom (album sales) and girl groups have the attention of the general public (music charts). There's a reason companies kept debuting girl groups even though bb are the ones who sell more albums and tickets. Most of the times, they make money with ggs and their individual members' image

[@meryemtachi2174]

I still didn't watch the video but i say the things i notice in kpop industry FEMALE IDOLS GET JUDGED THE MOST like look at seungri he got 18 months in jail he got out and started dating he even do parties and sing and fans hyping him up(i saw videos)and kpop stans ain't batting an eye they only focus on jennie bc she vaped or karina bc she dated or ahyeon for overdancing(even tho it's HER JOB) or wonyoung for eating a Strawberry with both hands or sakura for weak vocals EVEN HYUNA GOT MORE HATE THAN THE ACTUAL PROBLEM WHICH IS HER BF...women suffer more in every industry now imagine if a woman did what seungri did they won't shut up about it they would even start blaming other females idols

[@RUKA_BABYMONST7R]

Exactly. When it comes to Hate, bgs have it much easier as majority of kpop fans only like bgs.

[@sanyk-t6c]

Или ещё "забавнее". Девушка на концерте выступает в топике - она s*lut. Парень на концерте выступает с голым торсом - он hot. Где логика?

[@minatozaki8271]

It's easy for General public to dance along to Girlgroups songs from children, parent to grandparents. That's why girlgroups gains general public attention outside of their own Fandom. For Boygroups they've got a SOLID fandom that usually buy their cd, streaming songs and vids etc. . .bit I'm pretty sure as a Artist Kpop groups prefer General public recognition , it only shows that u can release songs for mass audience even non fan still love ur works.

[@cicibingham6217]

Yes they're losing relevance...and SKZ set a world record this Sunday with their 5th consecutive #1 album in the WORLD. 😂

[@RUKA_BABYMONST7R]

Internationally skz is arguably the best 4th bg. But domestically ggs dominate

[@AbdullahKhan-fd5hl]

But girl gp life is relatively shorter than bgp i mean we don't see a lot of female soloist or over 30 girl gp and also bgp like bigbang exo bts r still relevant and also they r dropping ggp like confetti most of them will be poular for a short period and willbe replaced by younger cuter girls no ggp no matter how poular is still not iconic as 2ne1 twice girl generation or blackpink

[@randomuser-nt9if]

they are relevant just in their own bubble, a lot of music listeners tend to have had a obsession phase so maybe its now being catered for younger audiences who more likely hop on latest trends, doing tiktok challenges and so on or maybe its the overall appearances seem very fabricated that make them less appealling because its less natural even the interviews bore me because ik its scripted and less natural to what the groups probablg want it to be. the groups are still popular but there is still other variations of music out there and everything doesnt have to centre around the latesdt biggest bg all the time it tends to get tiring hearing of the same group same members etc, u often need to switch it up sometimes and find something else to listen too because the amount they debut in such a short time period seems almost ridiculous and like theyre in some factory the way these groups are put together in short time doesnt bode well in the long run. their contracts dont last long enough compared to western groups where bands from previous generations are still around. maybe its the format of kpop groups that makes it hard for some groups to maintain their success rate so they are more short lived groups rather than full on success consistently and peoples reactions to them again tend to stem from the fact there isnt a variation anymore in music because its all tiktok related stuff. we dont go to stores to buy cds you have to buy whole package and extra merch on top makes kpop groups very hard to follow just to partake in their events like fanmeets and so on.

[@dianani7018]

it's not a recent phenomenon, I remember having this exact conversation with a friend way back in 2017, the conclusion we came up back then was both men and women fans listen to ggs but mostly only female fans listen to bgs. In korea ggs music has always been more preferred, scientifically special the female pitch is more pleasant to listen to. But in the core fandoms of some bgs like BTS become so big that the fandom becomes the gp. If the bg don't have a huge fandom it's kinda hard for bgs to chart in korea cuz gps prefer solos or ggs

[@dianani7018]

scientifically speaking**

[@theresaf3688]

Boy groups will never get relevance if they don’t move out of their comfort zone and quit with those hard core concepts. It turns off the gp. Like the only kpop group to reach mainstream is BTS and they finally broke the threshold when they changed their concept from their hard core boy image to their youthful vulnerable selves. And they started releasing music that was more digestible for the gp. At that time a kpop group being vulnerable and imperfect was not a common thing. And it’s this difference that pushed them to go farther

[@Ha-young_is_Just_Too_Fine]

Seventeen with their photo card album sale's 💀

[@Mariechessca]

Tbh if the music is good, I dont care if they are a bg or gg. Like when I got into kpop I didn't like the bright concept on both boy and girl groups. But now Tws is group I really like nowadays and im understanding why their concept is more liked domestically than internationally. Like if a boy group did a more bright poppy song, I dont think It will receive much. Which is why I understand why are lot of boy groups stay in that one market and thats not bad.

[@WerJoy]

18:35 doubt that. mb in international fanbase. Its the same idol-based fans but more likely men while bg have mostly girls as fans. It got better with New Jeans. but If you listen to Nayeon Music Core you will hear in chants mix of men. last year twice's Set me free Music core is MOSTLY men. Baddie - IVE same problem. Because i remember watching LATATA by (G)I-DLE and got confused like why is men screaming?! Also main reason of this whole girl groups getting better charts is because companies realised what girl groups can gain numbers if you give them better songs. since they don't have to enlist - they can make money in a long run. And now to compete with each other companies giving them better and better producers and songwriters. Girl groups are more relevant now? No, they just finally can sing better songs. Dont dig too deep - kpop industry is a money scheme. every decision will be made only to gain or dont lose profit. Watch how next TxT comeback will be in a bad boy style to gain back their masculinity.

[@yoru19]

oh they would get hate anyway from the "ballet community" xD pleaseee the ribbonsss 9:40 lol

[@nekromi97]

Don't really want to throw around terms like homophobia or anything like that but as a male fan I do enjoy the visuals and overall singing voices of the Girl groups more, I do like stray kids but that's a very rare thing for me to enjoy male vocals Don't know how to explain it otherwise

[@l0velyfl0wer]

What has homophobia got to do with anything you just said

[@nekromi97]

@@l0velyfl0wer guess I didn't explain it right... Sorry meant seeing dudes with heavy makeup and crop tops is just not something I want to look at

[@RUKA_BABYMONST7R]

​@@nekromi97as another male fan, I feel you

[@eric-rm4zv]

I love the gg's and it's not a sexual thing, I just think for my tastes female vocals and dancers are better for pop music, maybe also listening to mostly male musicians my whole life, i want something different

[@RUKA_BABYMONST7R]

Same. I just like their voices more and they r more appealing to me

[@RenwanSorahan]

My 2 cents here, as a decade long ARMY would be, every boy group you stan is bound to be misogynistic. BTS has done some hella controversial stuff that I have never endorsed although I love their music and sense of recent accountability. And I mean this for every group. My sister stans SVT and sometimes mentions the casual misogyny they have to offer too. Many male K-Pop idols have also openly berated GGs in the past, pretty popular names too. Of course, I mean no hate to anyone, just stating the facts. So, I think it's a good thing GGs are finally getting the recognition and artistic freedom they deserve. It's high time we got this.

[@realzb1hanbin]

just like another commenter, i feel like nct wish has that “girl group” visual aesthetic thats a cute and pretty concept and a fleshed out concept visually (both of their songs japan mvs i recommend) but nobody pays attention bcs they’re the japan unit and i think music wise zb1 have the pop music sound people want but they only have a big fanbase in korea and china idk why light concepts with boy groups just dont hit in the west like while people were happy about in bloom being a light concept with pop music thats dif from boy groups, but in the west there was strangely some disappointment in their “potential” and ppl wanted a hard hitting concept bcs they’re men.

[@suziec5269]

Personally, I don't listen to GG music anymore, I just don't like their music. I miss 2ne1, 4minute, Sistar, Miss A...

[@RUKA_BABYMONST7R]

For me vice versa😂

[@Oklik2503]

Oh my god, and this has already been linked to K-pop (misogyny). I don't think it's appropriate to compare the popularity of girl groups and boy groups. These are TWO DIFFERENT directions in sound. Male groups have great diversity in sound, change in image and independence. And girl groups are popular because they hold themselves to a standard that they are afraid to stray from. In the 3rd generation, the choice and sound of K-pop was standard, because. there was no variety, everything was formulaic. Now in the 4th and 5th generations, there are a lot of worthy groups that REALLY compete. And there are fewer problems based on gender.

[@luciabaltaretu7490]

I think the biggest difference between ggs ans bgs (other than what was mentioned) is that bgs have a more dedicated fandom, especially for collecting and therefore the bigger number in sales + the very weird attraction to wanting to know the members by names and watch the extra content more, while ggs have a more loose fandom but more people listen to the songs because you dont feel the need to get into the ggs members (for some reason). At least thats the pattern i've seen. But this most likely is still a form of mysoginy, not wanting to know more about the gg members as humans.

[@RUKA_BABYMONST7R]

Yeah. For the 1st point a reason for bgs selling more is also bc many female kpop fans see them as "boyfriend or husband material" and are more attracted to the male idols, therefore liking them alot. This also applies vice versa ofc, but since 70% of kpop fans are females, there are more ppl attracted to the bgs, therefore bringing them a bigger fandom.

[@SiddTrinity]

im waiting for the BINI Karera Live Reaction🤞🤞😊

[@Yhad01]

I will be honest, i believe the sole reason behind this are the companies not trying anymore and taking advantage of the fact that boy groups fans are more loyal than girl groups . Like a girl group can top the world one year and be forgotten the next or until a "better" group debut ; So you will see these companies trying their best to keep their girl groups at the top . But boy groups once they achieve success no matter what they release they will have their fans bying it even after 15 years. Even tho its a good thing companies took advantage of this ,Its been years since i heard a song from a boy group and thought this is the song of the year ,or wow i want to hear this song everyday, unlike 2 and 3rd gen were to this day i will be streaming these songs , the production and quality were top notch .

[@balkanbaroque]

Wonyoung karina and haerin walk em like a dawg sis walk em like a dawggggg

[@SiddTrinity]

HI SEBASTINE, and im first❤

[@afreenaftab]

It literally is cause of misogyny not misandry. ggs tapping into masculine aspects is seen as empowering but bgs tapping into femininity is seen as emasculating and looked down upon cause of internalised as well as overt misogyny. because ppl hate women and femininity in general. that's why girl crush concepts are celebrated. Also, metal concepts that are traditionally a men-dominated area don't get attention when ggs like Dreamcatcher do it cause that is crossing the line on the opposite spectrum see? Also Yeonjun is hella wrong tbh ggs are only now getting on the level of bgs I would say

[@powbobs]

Wow, delusional much.

[@afreenaftab]

@@powbobs pointing out misogyny and homophobia is being delusion!? Get lost bigot

[@themostrandom8424]

If you make a boy group look like gay group who you'll attract then? In this era of social media kpop has been into visuals that's why girlgruops becomes more popular and important in kpop industry. You see girlgruops nowadays are more young and getting younger as times goes by because of the demand in public, girlgruops are attractive to both gender and ages meanwhile boygruops only attractive to rainbow community. It's not like in the past that even though men wear makeup they still keep that masculine image that can attract male fanbase such as EXO and ATEEZ, nowadays even gruops like SVTn and SKZ they make them looks gays bro as a guy even though I like their music it turns me off and lose interest watching them I'd rather have listen to their music than watching them. Sales and numbers don't mean shit cuz we know how kpop business works that's why even though it looks like they're still relevant but in reality they're not. I don't even have interest in boygruops nowadays except SVTn, ATEEZ and SKZ I don't even know who are the others 😂

[@RUKA_BABYMONST7R]

W comment. I mean as a guy I'd rather not see them wearing heavy makeup and crop tops it just makes me uneasy

[@Kai-el7rw]

Yes, but who do girl groups appeal too? Guys and young girls! I prefer guy groups! I’m 64!

[@mariaromano7481]

Korean society is sth we, including you, should study and understand. They're different from us. So these terms you use are somewhat different in Korea in terms of acceptance. GG/BG are accepted as they are. Now, western society is different. Besides GG are becoming more powerful and they're excellent. I don't see misogyny. Homophobia? Come on man, the world is changing. Including Korea. I don't get your point. BG are famous around the world as GG.

[@Stay_wuth]

I will be honest... i like bg music since shinee in 2000s and i stuck to boy groups since now i like skz and 2ne1 and CL and japanese group's... i mean music is music you know bg and gg like what you like i like bg music 😊

[@bgahjs]

also i feel like a lot of bg stans are just there for the y/n moments, but in terms of music they don't really listen to the songs of the bg they supposedely stan. i don't think something like this happens as much with ggs. generally though, ggs make better music, like it's a fact. Also i feel like the gp loves catchy and easy listening songs, and we can see the only charting 4th gen/5th gen bgs in sk are the ones who appeal to the gp taste.

[@g100-w6j]

Um no that is very much not a fact😭😭 bgs can make bad music and ggs can make bad music lol the opposite also is true for both cases

[@bgahjs]

@@g100-w6j well personally I think girlgroups make better music and a lot of other people think it this way, that’s why they’re also dominating the kpop scene?

[@SkzElix]

HI SEBASTINE

[@bubbles000]

I just think a lot of boy group songs aren’t that good recently (specifically talking about newer groups not older), and girl groups are offering a little bit of everything.

[@RUKA_BABYMONST7R]

Yeah

[@martynar6119]

for me its also cause a lot of boy groups songs are just love love love boring boring boring nothing new nothing empowering, for girl groups listeners can listen to songs empowering women and just have women to look up to for many reasons i also think that girl idols are starting to express more of themselves as well as their believes while for me at least a lot of boy groups try not to express any opinions in their music

[@Sapp_Juniii]

I feel like that is kinda unfair to boy groups mainly because GG's can make songs about women empowerment, but the men can't make songs about "male empowerment" without people thinking they are hating on women. The boys can't always "express" themselves without people having a problem with it, so they just stick to what works to sale their songs. I have plenty more thoughts on this, but I. don't know to put them into words. No Hate🫶

[@martynar6119]

@@Sapp_Juniii I know I myself wouldn't like songs like that but i would like to see more works (albums) at least talking about some message that isn't necessarily love, I myself like bts because of the message and of course, other idols nowadays also write their songs and im not saying all but a lot of boy groups songs are mainly about love or the lyrics are so vague you can't tell what the song is about at all

[@Callisto_52Hz]

@@Sapp_Juniii what is there to empower? south korea is already a misogynist society. boygroups can sing about homophobia or the pushback against free expression though. its not like there's a limited number of topics to talk about. bts got success talking about self love, the trials of growing up, psychology, politics, friendship, etc. groups like ateez are popular for their lore heavy music. a lot of these topics are things girlgroups were restricted from covering until recently when groups like dreamcatcher and loona started pushing the boundary and other girlgroups started adapting. idk why people find a problem when girlgroups finally get some space to shine.

[@EB990]

Ill use Ateez as an example here but most people only hear a title track and assume that is what their music sounds like. In reality their discography spans so many genres its crazy. They just use the louder ones as title tracks because they work for their story and performance style. There are many meaningful lyrics in their songs turbulence, youth, one day at a time etc that are softer, uplifting and emotional that tell of the struggles in life with some members trying not to cry while singing. Turbulence even being a title track but they lose their brand identity as performance kings and the songs dont do as well.

[@katarmarz]

⁠@@Sapp_Juniii(sorry for the yap you rlly don’t need it read it tbh and I don’t want to start an argument either I just wanted to get my feelings across on this, you are very welcome to respond though and correct anything i said) It’s honestly so sad how this is a case and the reason it is the case is bc a lot of cases when it comes to “male empowerment” it shits on other things by the people who make it. There’s a lot of cases where people are tying to speak abt mens problems and stuff, but they usually 9 times out of 10 shit on other demographics that don’t fit the average “masculine traditional male”. And since that’s so common when it comes to uplifting men, a lot of people genuinely just don’t care to even bat an eye, because well in the past it’s about shitting on people while trying to say specific men are more valuable. And it’s not just with women, it’s with gay people, not traditional masculine men, men who are virgins etc…. It’s definitely a problem with how people always seem to just ignore men empowerment things solely because a lot are very narrow minded, but I can’t really blame people for ignoring it because it’s always been the same exact thing every single time. When lizzo made the men empowerment song, people (men in specific) continued to shit and hate on her for her weight, when it came to step back, a song praising their man, the lyrics were directly insulting women. Men’s mental health month last month, we used as an excuse for men to just shit on lgbtq+ etc… And honestly to this day, i’ve yet to actually see a men empowerment song every that didn’t shit on another demographic, solely for being that demographic… but if you have, could you tell me what the name is? Because i’m genuinely curious

[@hiba9663]

Holaa!!!

[@MewDenise]

General public don't listen to B-sides, only title tracks. Male group titles have been less good these days... except TXT. Deja Vu was frikin amazing. Girl group songs aren't that deep even and is just candy for general public. They aren't loyal to these girls since they switch what song they listen to every week

[@l0velyfl0wer]

Gidle, Red Velvet, Exid, Le Sserafim, Babymonster are right there. wdym

[@powbobs]

Do you realize how misogynistic you are.

[@RUKA_BABYMONST7R]

But that's one of the problem with bgs. Many say they (expect for some ofcourse) just make "loud" music. Then their fans come to defend them and say "look at ther bsides" and stuff like that. But title tracks are supposed to be like the "face" of the album. If the "face" is the music some people claim as just "noise", then they wouldn't bother checking the album because they will assume the other songs are like that too.

[@powbobs]

@@MewDenise Not gonna lie, boy groups are pretty cringe.

[@pseudocide.]

BY NO MEANS AM I SAYING THIS WITH MY CHEST, THESE ARE JUST THOUGHTS I'VE HAD ABOUT KPOP RECENTLY AND THINGS I'VE NOTICED - NOT SAYING I'M RIGHT OR WHATEVER, LITERALLY SHOWER THOUGHTS LOL (honestly not sully related) - I'm a guy, and when I first got into kpop as a kid, I listened to more boy groups, cuz back then groups like Big Bang (fuck seungri) and 2PM, MBLAQ, etc we're different (not saying better, just honestly a lot different than now) and I wanted to be like them. Back then Girl Groups were still really popular, look at SNSD - Gee, Wonder Girls - Nobody which was like the first viral hit around the world even before PSY. There was always boy groups that went for a "manly" concept vs a "boyfriend" concept and both have been popular, we just get more of that boyfriend concept now, but still evolving with an edgier twist, especially as those idols get older. I feel like groups like SKZ and ATEEZ are definitely in the in-between and usually go for a much louder/"cool" concept and I'm happy there's no one sided labels as much, more so - "here let's do this concept". After the explosion of BTS it's kind of a no brainer if you have a group that is around that wheel house/backed by a big company, you will get fans. BUT over the past 5 years Girl Groups have just really been bringing in the heat with the music, and which ever creative directors/producers were in charge, they were more willing to experiment and see what sticks, and obviously a lot of girl group stuff has been resonating with a large group of people, my playlists are way more girl groups now. Companies know if Boy groups know do a sexy concept or something the fans will love it but I am waiting for the day we get another boy group labeled BEAST idols like the old 2PM, not cuz "I want manly men" but just cuz it's been a long time since we've seen that. No doubt the choreography and dance abilities of current idols have reached the next level for sure, but I would be so excited for the day a boy group finishes their song on a music show but then have a 30 second dance break at the end where they're bboying and the whole group backflips across the stage again like 2PM and Again and Again lmao. It's not that boy groups are worse at all, it's just we get the same thing and I feel like we're just waiting for the next big thing that's different but isn't just a fad, it's over saturation/fatigue imo. I won't be surprised if that sentiment/the same thing will happen to girl groups, it's crazy how many bsides on newer girl group albums even from older groups are going for a D&B type song or a nostalgia kind of song, clearly because it got so popular cuz of Newjeans. Back then boy groups used to go on shows and dress up as girl groups and cover their popular songs, idk why that would be "weird" now, like who cares. It's pretty much what he said in the vid, BG and GG are still marketing to the same markets as they always have overall, but tbh as long as we get good music, i'm good

[@alb91878]

👏👏👏! Very well said!

[@RUKA_BABYMONST7R]

Preach. This comment is so based I couldn't have said it any other way. For me as a guy I totally agree with you.