Missile strike in Poland and understanding democracy in Ukraine| Ukraine: The Latest | Podcast

Day 266.
Today, we analyse the news of a missile strike in Poland, close to the Ukrainian border, discuss the diplomatic moves made at the G20 in Indonesia and we interview Dr Olga Onuch about Ukrainian politics, society & democracy.
Contributors:
David Knowles (Host). Follow David on Twitter @DjKnowles22.
Dominic Nicholls (Associate Editor). Follow Dom on Twitter @DomNicholls.
Roland Oliphant (Senior Foreign Correspondent).
Francis Dearnley (Assistant Comment Editor).
With thanks to Dr Olga Onuch.
Email: [e-mail]
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Telegraph.co.uk and / telegraphtv are websites of The Telegraph, the UK's best-selling quality daily newspaper providing news and analysis on UK and world events, business, sport, lifestyle and culture.

[@mightyrighty1]

The guest speaker today was brilliant

[@hibakuxa1050]

I really loved today's podcast. I listen to it regularly. I couldn't agree more with her words about what foreigners get most wrong about Ukraine. What she called fierced attachment to the state and unity in ukrainian identity. I've seen interviews with Jeffrey Sachs, Noam Chomsky, Scott Ritter and I do think this is where they all get it wrong. They always fail to make the proper question. They always ask what America wants, what Russia wants, what China wants and that it's all solved in backstage. But the right question is: What do Ukraine and Ukrainians want? That is the most basic and most important question. A country fighting with that unity for their homeland will always win. As long as they are not stripped from their will to fight they will win. Check the history lessons, look at Afghanistan or Vietnam, what were the odds? My father fought in Africa for "Portugal" against the colonies. All he wanted was to return home and not waste his life and his best years in a land where the homefolks rejected his presence. That never works. Self determination of the people always wins. I'm glad the portuguese colonies won, I'm glad he returned home alive to have a fulfilling life. I'm glad that in the process of loosing that war my country overthrow the fascist dictator we had back then (this will happen to Russia as well and I wouldn't be surprised of uprisings later on tearing Russia apart). It might take a few more years but self-determination always wins. That's why Russia can't win. That's why Ukraine will always win.

[@brett1354]

These just keep getting better and better. Thanks.

[@Ukbrummie]

Thanks David and crew. Great podcast as usual

[@glenwoofit]

Great question Olga, Great answers as well ..

[@motswirifarm8981]

I very much enjoyed Olga's views and analyses. Your podcast my go-to news source on the events. Democracy will be the victor. Albert from South Africa

[@gmcanepa]

Dr. Olga really stole the show this episode. She's fantastic. I'll have to go read her book

[@moleratical1232]

Absolutely. This may be the most interesting podcast on Ukraine I've heard. Dr. Olga Onuch is amazing.

[@Krystof.Veritae]

Absolutely amazing podcast today .....Love the inside expressed and knowledge base presented by Olga cant wait for the book , I wish for the world to hear it :) …… Cheers from Poland \-/

[@Maja-Danmark]

I agree 100 % Many things I didn't know.

[@dearmas9068]

Outstanding episode. Great work

[@hughjanus2020]

Great show. Very informative. Love Domini's and Francis's way of explaining complex matters to a simpleton like me.

[@brocluno01]

One of the best podcasts so far, hats off 🙂

[@john_in_phoenix]

I can verify from personal experience that the attitude towards democracy in southeast Ukraine (specifically the Kherson area) has changed even for native Russian speakers. I have relatives from Kherson fighting for the Ukrainian army, and since 2014 the entire attitude has done a slow but dramatic shift. The average Ukrainian citizen used to be resigned to the idea that a strong central leader (like Putin) was best for the country. They now believe that the relationship with the EU and democracy are best for Ukraine. I am also of the opinion that the single pronouncement by Zelenskyy of "I need ammunition, not a ride" did more to galvanize the west to support Ukraine than any other statement or action. Sure as heck inspired me. Shades of Churchill.

[@Maja-Danmark]

Zelensky's leadership in the beginning when many believed he would go into exile changed the outcome, I would suggest. Without his outreach and the fact than the US president took the lead in NATO, I seriously doubt that Ukraine would have had the chance to withstand for this long. Even with the Ukrainians' courage. Could I be wrong? Of course. They didn't cover this part of Zelensky's impact. Or I might have missed it, I listened very closely, though.

[@branscombeR]

@@Maja-Danmark I'm pretty sure it would have to form part of Henry E. Hale and Olga Onuch's book. Let's hope so. R (Australia)

[@guymanheim]

Wow, what a great show today. Good work team.

[@radical_truffle]

Fabulous interview

[@TooBadToBeAway1]

What a great podcast. Thanks to everyone, especially Olga. I have a question regarding civic nationalism and history. To what extent does the history (and myth) of the Cossack period inspire Ukraine's contemporary civic nationalism.

[@RobBCactive]

Great interview and interviewee, she really expanded on info that I have only heard partial pieces of.

[@nuggetoftruth-ericking7489]

I hope this war ends soon...good grief.

[@DenajM25]

I salute for ukrrrain, my parent were in the Bosnian Croatian Serbian war, and i dont want other peoples to experience something similar to that.

[@JamesPCroad]

So, throwing missiles at allies in a bid to escalate this conflict and involve NATO, is okay? Is that your angle? 🤔 Bottom line is, ALL of these conflicts are gestated and encouraged by 'ruling' class ideologies and interests that are not the average persons. The victims are always regular people, like your parents - whether civilians or military.

[@patrickclarke3645]

What about the Iraq, Syrian and Afghanistan people? Are the unworthy of your pity 👀👀

[@hsanguily]

One of the best programs of the year .👍 The lady was great!!

[@alexbutler9343]

Great episode

[@jenspedersen4509]

Glad to see Vlad on other channels. Good stuff too. Good questions.

[@1speakeasy]

Well played Olga

[@contrarian8870]

"Understanding democracy in Ukraine"? A country which banned all parties is a "democracy" now? Yes, that's truly a new "understanding" of democracy :) Zelensky and Ukraine's chief of security, Shafrin, both co-own the same offshore "company" in the Caribbean (Multicapital) :) At this level of corruption it basically becomes a dark comedy.

[@piggypoopiggypoo]

Happy Christmas 🎄 everyone

[@DenajM25]

Its november, but still this made me laugh.

[@Edo9River]

We started the Christmas train in last week of October

[@Ukbrummie]

Happy new year

[@begachka]

What would the Telegraph know about democracy?

[@big1dog23]

YES, OLGA WAS REALLY GOOD. i WATCHED SEVERAL EPISODES OF "SERVANT" ON NETFLIX BEFORE THE FEB INVASION, AND WANTED TO KNOW MORE. NOW i DO AND I'M TEMPTED TO READ THE BOOK.

[@deborahhric7513]

Zelensky is one of the two greatest things Ukraine has. He is smart and a very gifted speaker who knows how to use the mic on the world stage. He's a man who was in the right place at the right time and will be forever remembered in history as the greatest leader of our time. Just as the Ukrainian Army will also join the annals of history as the greatest fighting force of our time. Slava Ukraine!

[@electricink3908]

Nobody expected it but he was born to be a wartime leader.

[@jimgraham6722]

Agree

[@jamesgordon8867]

Where did the missile land? Use coordinates for Kiev and Liev.

[@jimgraham6722]

Exactly, some clown loaded got coordinates mixed up.

[@Hovercraftltd]

So the coordinates exactly match Lviv/Kyiv transposed...this is huge evidence that it was the Russian missile...also the size of the crater indicates a bigger war head than the Ukrainian anti missile which was anyway arranged to blow up in the air if not finding its target....The US ignores this so they do not have the complication of doing what the Nato treaty requires them to do....Rather like the treaty under which Ukraine gave up its nuclear capability in exchange for the US and the UK and Russia ensuring protection of Ukraine which all three parties fail to act on especially Russia who have done the exact opposite. That Ukraine is denied immediate access to the site right on their border also confirms it is a Russian missile...the cover up is always the best evidence of deception.

[@blechtic]

I've seen this floating around too. I've yet too see any reliable confirmation that those mixed coordinates are where the missile actually landed. I saw someone put it nearer to Przewodów (theorising it being on a continued line from a section of a power line), which would be >5km from the mixed coordinates point. Of course, if the missile was from an S-300, it only could have been fired from Ukraine or a corner of Belarus anyway, because of the limited range.

[@alanchristensen5735]

Bingo! Use the latitude coordinates of one and the longitude of the other. Likely operator error imputing coordinates.

[@jamesgordon8867]

They put in actual coordinates for both cities and that is the precise location of that missile

[@branscombeR]

Again, an absolutely brilliant podcast ... please everyone take a bow ... proper amount of time required to cover important topics ... but an odd initial batch of negative or irrelevant feedback comments from listeners ... ? R ((Australia)

[@barryshaffer6938]

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[@barryshaffer6938]

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[@barryshaffer6938]

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[@barryshaffer6938]

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[@barryshaffer6938]

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[@sebastianderien5823]

I may be wrong, but besides the many weaknesses of an autocracy, one of its strength is, that it can change its policies in minutes without having to negotiate changes first. Fast adoption of policy changes is nothing i would put on the pro site of democracy.

[@lokmanmerican6889]

On a side note, that's an incredibly clear audio from Roland climbing up a volcano on holiday. (Except for a little wind noise)

[@cuddycabinrestorationproje9155]

An air defense missile is not what hit Poland. First, the batteries are not faced to the west. Second, they are programmed to self destruct before falling to ground if the miss their airborne target. Also the crater is too large to have been made by a an air defense missile.

[@samsungtap4183]

Thats right it was really a A-bomb that had a dud fuse

[@deborahhric7513]

Also latitude and longitude coordinates show this missile was deliberately programmed to hit Poland. By Russia.

[@jimgraham6722]

Agree.

[@universanking5563]

indonesia our country also our allies thailand vietnam was strong because our three countries is the one that funding the Black Armies on middle east and not qatar and being Indonesian we are confident to disclose it because only less people are seeing this

[@toddfoster77]

The Zelensky Effect book can be pre ordered on Amazon now.

[@john_in_phoenix]

Thanks, I just placed my pre-order. Much appreciated.

[@terjeoseberg990]

“The original warhead weighed 100 kg (220 lb), intermediate warheads weighed 133 kg (293 lb), and the latest warhead weighs 143 kg (315 lb).” It is impossible for this payload to create a crater as big as the crater in Poland. It was obviously something bigger than an S300. It would take a missile with at least 400kg of explosives to create that crater.

[@PELEGON1]

Agree.

[@cinnaminson0653]

I have read a number of books by German officers from WW2. Every one of them discussed the vast differences between fighting in the West as compared to Russia. Basically they felt that the western allies were human beings who fought by a set of rules while the Russians - Soviets were not remotely civilized.

[@padredemishijos12]

fantasy and magical thinking

[@joeb578]

​@@padredemishijos12 well it is how the Germans viiewed them and its what they wrote, the treatment of conquered areas by the soviets is xell documented.

[@georgeloquvam2550]

please explain the Language Law

[@dearmas9068]

It could mean something slightly different in different places, but it's usually a way of unifying the general "language" used in the way laws are written. Consistency makes it easier to practice and define, and every legal system needs to clean up it's own nomenclature sometimes.

[@roddixon368]

Thankyou for this one. Hope this war ends soon and Ukraine can get back to growing their country.

[@time1066]

Except the gas costs alot more

[@jannarkiewicz633]

What did Dr. Olga say, "U.S. session is the way to go"? Timestamp 40:53

[@bricktop.]

I enjoy cheesecake occasionally.

[@manwithhinge]

Yeah too much cheesecake gets old

[@EhEhEhEINSTEIN]

Wild Wild East! I like that lol. Starring.. Not Will Smith

[@raykeane9345]

Britain out of Ireland who are they to call anyone an invader??? Such BS

[@anabelpineda9976]

I will be very disappointed if ever find we that America is trying to sale Ukrainians to russia it will be heartbreaking🇺🇦🇺🇸🇩🇴😢💔☮️🙏

[@kotmatroskin4941]

Biden will never voluntarily give up his Ukraine to anybody, include Ukrainians. I remember how Biden bragged in 2018 about having power to fire Ukrainian attorney general. It was so democratic! It sems Biden consider Ukraine as a 54th state of the USA

[@carolwilliams8511]

I am definitely not in favour of granting Russia any territory in Ukraine. That would be a bad signal to send to all autocratic regimes.

[@benlowe578]

I'd rather them give up some territory than see another couple hundred thousand young men get sent to die... Whoever is in control of those areas is almost a mute point. Living standards and laws in Rússia and Ukraine are almost identical. Is it fair that these young men die in order to serve the will of politicians?

[@Skjerstad1812]

lol, thats a bit like the kettle calling the pot black.

[@dearmas9068]

@@benlowe578 the problem with your logic is that those people die anyway if Putin is allowed anything.

[@dearmas9068]

@@Skjerstad1812 go away, Russian troll

[@benlowe578]

@@dearmas9068 not necessarily. Putin isn't a crazy warmonger. It's just western Propaganda. If his objectives are met, or He is given an off ramp, there's a good chance He will take it. It would be pure negligence and a disregard to the lives of the people of Ukraine and Rússia, to not try and create a peaceful end to the war

[@deborahhric7513]

Zelensky will stay in power for as long as he wants. His exceptional leadership during this war will not be forgotten by the Ukrainian voters when they go to the polls to vote.

[@kotmatroskin4941]

Indeed, he subjugated Ukraine. And now he has money and he can do whatever he want.

[@nurseSean]

If the missile was Ukraine’s it went off course AND transformed into a ground burst from an air burst.

[@jimgraham6722]

Of course, was also fired to east against incoming cruise missiles from Donbas and then went west. Those ruzz built missiles are known for making inexplicable 180 deg turns.

[@tonyraffetto931]

I find Dr Olga both brilliant/insightful and super annoyingly pretentious

[@laurie9557]

See Denys Davydov yesterday (November 16), his second post. He shows how a latitude / longitude data entry error by the Russian who launched the missile caused the missile to hit that Polish farm. It's a Russian missile, but it was an error, so it would not trigger Article 5. Very disappointing that NATO, and The Telegraph, choose to blame the Polish deaths on Ukraine.

[@RobBCactive]

Nobody except Russia blamed Polish deaths on Ukraine. The Ruzzian missile campaign is the fundamental cause, no matter if ONLY S300 air defence SAM was found. Denys's coordinates are circumstantial evidence, physical evidence trumps theory. Let's suppose Poland and NATO chose cover up, after Russian belligerent accusations of provocation and identification of missile parts as S300. Why would they do that? Remember the G20 condemned Russia's invasion and China & India are saying it's time for peace, which implies Russian withdrawal. The urge to deny S300 involvement might undo gains made on the diplomatic, economic and information fronts

[@laurie9557]

@@RobBCactive I work in IT (including geographical software) and I know how easy it would be to make that sort of data entry error. Ukrainian investigators are not allowed near the site even though their experts would be in the company of NATO experts. Lying to the public is counter-productive. It engenders mistrust.

[@kotmatroskin4941]

So, it will be not so difficult for the Ukrainian officials to explain how the Russians attacked Ukrainian buildings by using nato AA systems like nasams or iris-t

[@josealdrich973]

They were thrown by Ukraine

[@LumenMichaelOne]

8:50... FRANCIS!... What are u Smoking-Over there?... Not GOING to HAPPEN!... francis... u should be Ashamed for the mere mention of that.

[@Hovercraftltd]

So the strike coordinates exactly match Lviv/Kyiv transposed...this is huge evidence that it was the Russian missile...also the size of the crater indicates a bigger war head than the Ukrainian anti missile which was anyway arranged to blow up in the air if not finding its target....The US ignores this so they do not have the complication of doing what the Nato treaty requires them to do....Rather like the treaty under which Ukraine gave up its nuclear capability in exchange for the US and the UK and Russia ensuring protection of Ukraine which all three parties fail to act on especially Russia who have done the exact opposite. That Ukraine is denied immediate access to the site right on their border also confirms it is a Russian missile...the cover up is always the best evidence of deception.

[@samsungtap4183]

Give it up, the missile was a old soviet S-300 not used by Russia but used by Ukraine

[@deborahhric7513]

It's a cover up. And NATO is a disappointment.

[@Hovercraftltd]

@@samsungtap4183 What is your view on the transposed coordinates? (It is likely Russia is using whatever old Soviet stuff it can get hold of from anywhere as per their own antique tanks and also North Korean shells.)

[@blechtic]

@@Hovercraftltd I'm not that guy, but AFAIK nobody has reliably confirmed that is actually the location where it landed. It's a cute meme, but it lacks evidence. I saw someone put it closer to Przewodów, making it over 5 km from that mixed coordinate location.

[@kotmatroskin4941]

So, it will be not so difficult for the Ukrainian officials to explain how the Russians attacked Ukrainian buildings by using nato AA systems like nasams or iris-t

[@keithplantsseeds]

So who wants to talk about the civilians being tied up and beaten by Rouge militias? It bothers me deeply.

[@leeleelee0054]

War is for fools , one big mistake and the world is destroyed , reject war ...peace at all costs

[@willgoodall7212]

Roland too many 'erm's prep your reports beforehand please. Thanks.

[@kentix417]

She sounds like Mila Kunis's older sister.

[@annapuzo2230]

She does 😊

[@marcopaganotto9125]

That Zelenskyy is a total liability...

[@davidelliott5843]

Ukraine is likely to be accepted into NATO eventually. It’s highly unlikely to get full membership of EU. It’s huge agriculture industry would completely unbalance the Common Agricultural Policy. Then there’s the massive cost of rebuilding the country. EU will want to impose their micromanaging methods and they’ll see Ukraine as a money pit rather than a business opportunity.

[@jimgraham6722]

Yes the Russians saw it as a money bin rather than pit. Plenty of loot to be had.

[@kotmatroskin4941]

It is very demonstrative how Zelensky is so desperately trying to join Nato, huh. Of course, Nato members don't want direct involving in this mess. If some country wants to join Nato, then Nato members must approve it unanimously. And now Nato is too big and divided. Moreover, Ukraine has territorial disputes, which is a huge factor. And now, Ukrainian minister of Defence boasts that Ukraine has become a military polygon. Wow! It wasn't surprising that Stoltenberg said about NATO's door remains open (He always said this) And then Zelensky was shown the door by Jens. So why Zelensky did this "accelerated accession"? What was he hoping for? Btw it was a bad idea from the beginning for Ukraine to start using radical Shukhewitch ideology with one-nation and one-language in multilingual international country.

[@jimgraham6722]

@@kotmatroskin4941 Ukriniane plus english a good language choice. No sane person would want to read war and peace in ruzz.

[@joebob293]

Commercials every few minutes are pretty interruptive.

[@annuki8795]

Russian missile operator got the coordinates wrong on the POLISH MISSILE ATTACK - Probably due to Vodka drunk Russian Missile operator. kzbin.info/www/bejne/pqi7i5aKacdoeLc Missiles attack in Poland : Russian serviceman mistook some coordinates! Kyiv : 50.4501N, 30.5234E Lviv : 49.842957N, 24.031E Polish village : 50.4501N, 24.031E

[@Falcon6598]

The-Teliegraph-gagging-for-ww3-and-nuclear-armaggedon,any-apologies-for-your-lies/propaganda-on-Poland-missile-strike?

[@2aph0d_b33blebr0x]

A Putin lover?

[@ibrstellar1080]

@@2aph0d_b33blebr0x He's talking facts so simmer down MSN bbc trash news lover.

[@foxtroll9095]

Go back to your rock russian monsters

[@SuperBalaur]

@@2aph0d_b33blebr0x Attacking the person instead of the argument. T R O L L

[@ibrstellar1080]

@@foxtroll9095 Says the Fascist lover!

[@sylvianorah1367]

Don't impose your opinion on Ukrainians Ukrainians are tge one to decide

[@janechambers9980]

No response at all? I was hoping we would not betray Ukraine; unfortunately, it looks like we already have.

[@firefairy2328]

Bs

[@SuperBalaur]

Democracy in Ukraine?! Is that a joke?

[@eddiel7635]

Russia is a kleptocracy

[@dearmas9068]

It's far FAR more real than it has ever been in Russia

[@niklaswikholm514]

Karma will take care of Putin.....

[@dearmas9068]

Karma is spelled N A T O.

[@anniecameron6794]

That was a terriost attack on a nato state called poland

[@paulroustan3643]

What utter rubbish, pure fantasy

[@imperatorvespasian3125]

democracy in Ukraine? didn't know this was a parody channel

[@LORDNAG1]

Lmao can't say nassi

[@ukisa3rdworld586]

It shows hypocrisy

[@garrymcfadden4105]

Stop this charade now. Propaganda

[@dearmas9068]

Get lost, orc

[@trashmammal454]

Again the 5-15 minute talk of news that doesn't have anything to do with ukrain. If your not going to stick to the topic why call the podcast ukrain the latest

[@b.v.skijump432]

Well. Due to the global nature of the war in ukraine it makes sense to also have the bigger picture. The global powerplay has no real borders.

[@dearmas9068]

Stick to Anime

[@trashmammal454]

@@b.v.skijump432 if that is the case actually tie in into the topic at hand instead of just saying it. I had the same issue with the podcast when they spent the entire podcast giving live updates on what truss was doing and going on a long stint of talking about british stuff with no tie to ukrain.

[@jaybee4288]

Not sure why Russia aren’t allowed to fire missiles at Poland but Ukraine is just fine to murder polish people. It’s really funny the different reactions to it.

[@brendanroberts4866]

Would it have happened if russia didnt start its criminal war olga?

[@oliaguilar1]

@@brendanroberts4866 and NATO followed. Actually this war started in 2014

[@brendanroberts4866]

Followed what,

[@dearmas9068]

Not too bright, are ya, son?

[@RobBCactive]

Air defence missiles going astray is a tragedy, Russia striking deliberately at targets with offensive missiles is an act of war.

[@Skjerstad1812]

Its almost a done deal now, Russia is taking Kiev and everything east of the Dnipro river. The rest of Ukraine is to be a buffer between Russia and Europe.

[@2aph0d_b33blebr0x]

Lol. Russia is going to get booted out of Ukraine, all of it.

[@ibrstellar1080]

@@2aph0d_b33blebr0x They have over 600,000 military personnel on the border so the West will desperate to keep the war ticking over along as possible. 💰💰💰💰

[@ScienceofWar]

@@2aph0d_b33blebr0x like Genghis Khan, Napoleon, the Polish Lithuanian commonwealth, Sweden and Hitler all booted them out at some point. History repeating itself

[@Skjerstad1812]

@@2aph0d_b33blebr0x Sorry Carl but its not going to happen, i'm sad to say Ukraine (as it was) is finished.

[@markbowden7238]

@@2aph0d_b33blebr0x put your crystal ball down Carl it isn't working.

[@DigitalNomadOnFIRE]

God doesn't exist bubba.

[@CCC2020]

the little failed comedian has been caught red handed... isn't NATO supposed to punish Ukraine for attacking one of its members???

[@dude3678]

As an American I can promise people listening to this that our government will force the hand of Ukraine to soon negotiate with Putin and give up Crimea.

[@teabagger1981]

If Russia end the conflict now, they're dumb. They're winning, this false flag didn't work and any agreement with America or the UK isn't worth the paper it's printed on.

[@PLEVI]

Even though America started this proxy war nearly 10 years ago, They funded an uprising, Gave them all the telecommunications, TV studios, Weapons, Media coverage, Airstrikes, They selected Zelenski, But dont worry sleepy creepy hair sniffing Biden who shakes hands with ghosts is gonna savve us, Ok then

[@louisredman26]

your wording makes it sounds like Ukraine invaded Crimea

[@dude3678]

@@louisredman26 wasn't my intention. Republicans took over the house so the funnel of money will stop. Plus the allegations that FTX exchange, recently bankrupt, could possibly have been involved in circling money that was donated to Ukraine back to the democratic party through is books in the Bahamas. Majority of Americans want America first policy again.

[@James_Doyle83]

Never putin should give up

[@anthonyshowers7486]

Coordinate Kylv 504501N 30.5234E Lviv 49842957N 24.031E You hit Poland Deny’s Davydov said !

[@andyremfry322]

I believe this is ukraine attempting to escalate this war

[@jimgraham6722]

The worst of it is that Ruzz talked Ukraine out of their nukes back in 1991 in exchange for security guarantees. That did not work out well. If they still had nukes this war would never have happened.

[@cliveswabs9365]

RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA ..AGAIN ..NOT