MiSTer Vs Original NIntendo. Battletoads Clinger-Winger. The Ultimate Lag Test

[@dinierto]

I'm not sure when this video was published but save states are officially on the NES core now on MiSTer :)

[@KindaCool]

Battletoads is the lag barometer for many people on the NES. I use fighting Mike Tyson in Punch Out as my main go-to for lag on that console, but I always check out Battletoads as well. Great upload!

[@riggel8804]

Thanks! I'm sure it depends on what you have more familiarity with.

[@unity6926]

Super stuff man, still doing research on the Mister but all evidence is pointing to it being excellent.

[@rrrrrrrr88888888]

Great story and demonstration of perception of input lag / latency. Just so you know, the NES core does have save states. It's in beta and behind a patreon paywall. Once it is tested and approved the general public will have access to it!

[@riggel8804]

That is awesome. Thanks for the info. I didn't know that. Recently someone made a trainer for the dodonpachi cave arcade core that allows you to stage select. I'm really excited that developers are incorporating these options. It makes beating hard games so much more practical.

[@WalrusFPGA]

@@riggel8804 It's actually an open beta for the NES savestates, and you can download them from his patreon or the official MiSTer Discord server if you want to try the current build. It's made a lot of progress and has been working great so far. Street Fighter Alpha 3 just came to MiSTer with a special .mra that unlocks all hidden characters and adds additional character colors from the console version as well as stage select, etc. I agree its pretty awesome seeing some quality-of-life features come to these arcade classics. The .mra format is very robust in its ability to patch arcade roms on-the-fly. Can't wait to see what people come up with in the future.

[@veridor7522]

Thank you for making this. As much as I love all the cool things you can do with emulation, I finally have something tangible to point people to when they ask why I love MiSTer so much. I still haven’t beaten the $&(! Turbo Tunnelnin Battletoads, though.

[@riggel8804]

You got to beat the turbo tunnel! Battletoads is awesome!

[@kosmosyche]

What's your retroarch hardware setup? I'm asking because I noticed you have hard GPU sync frames set to 1. It really should be 0 for minimum lag performance. 1 should only be used if your hardware is too slow to provide 0 frame sync. And why do you use "runahead second instance"? You only need it turned on for emulators that have problems with normal runahead operation, otherwise second instance should be turned off. You should also change poll type behavior to "late". Might also try different emus, see if the lag improves (for example Mesen). I don't know about NES emulation (since I don't have a real NES, so I can't compare), but I managed to shave off lag in retroarch SNES emulation (SNES9x main) to basically almost nothing (several ms on average in 3 series of 20 attempts - basically within margin of error). Sony CRT monitor (G220), windows 7, nvidia GTX680 (via VGA port, one of the last videocards with VGA, so I kept it for emulation lol), openGL, fullscreen, Runahead 1 frame, GPU sync frames 0, frame delay 8, poll type behavior late, threaded video - off, disable desktop composition - on, triple buffering off in nvidia control panel. Compared this to a real SNES on Sony CRT TV (KV-21X4). Also I noticed different USB controllers add lag. First I used PS3 controller and there was more lag even in wired mode, so I tried HORI Fighting Commander (in PC mode) and it also shaved off some milliseconds. I also use AntiMicro to improve controller USB polling rate to 1ms. Anyway 3-4 frames of lag is unacceptable and it's not normal for correctly configured retroarch. Even with runahead turned off there shouldn't be more than 1-2 frames on a CRT monitor. With runahead 1 frame it should be around 0-1 frames of lag. And yes, I am a bit of lag intollerant myself, lol.

[@riggel8804]

I didn't bother trying to optimize Latency for this video. I didn't think anyone would notice but it is really cool that you did. As far as the accepted latency advice goes you are right. I should have set my gpu sync to zero and turned off second instance. However my default latency setup is geared toward 90s arcade and I usually have gpu to 1 or I have problems and the same goes for second instance. When I first got into crtemudriver I did make the adjustments you mentioned as well as set frame delay to 11 and it did not help me beat the Clinger winger. If you could do me a favor, try beating the clinger-winger stage on your setup. I am curious to know if you really can get your setup down to original hardware levels of lag (1 frame). Also, why set pole type behavior to late? My understanding is that it should always be set to early. Also, I am using the Hori Fighting Commander controller as well. I fucking love that controller. I have tried multiple emulators. I noticed that Nestopia looks really good and plays smoothly but it also has the worst lag. I might experiment with mesen but honestly I don't use retroarch for nes emulation ever. I have original hardware with a flashcart and save states and my nes is rgb modded so retroarch has nothing to offer me as far as the nes is concerned.

[@kosmosyche]

@@riggel8804 lol I haven't played Battletoads since I was 13 probably and even then I don't remember ever beating that stage. It's ruthless! But challenge accepted, I'll try to beat it at least 2 times in a row.

[@riggel8804]

@@kosmosyche cool thanks. You can use the press start to end level cheat to skip the rest of the game.

[@MordecaiWalfish]

Isn't it awesome, that with mister you don't need to worry about these per-game lag optimizations and the mess of settings associated with retroarch? Really feels next level just being able to fire up everything and know lag will be minimal without any fuss.

[@kosmosyche]

@@MordecaiWalfish Yes, it sure is! FPGA systems in general are awesome, cause they potentially allow 100% true to original hardware experience and AFAIK many cores are already 99.9% there and it's only the beginning. IMHO they are the future as far as retrogaming goes and the future is bright.

[@DavidFilskov]

Great video! - thanks for making it so clear where lag matters - and please note that input lag matters as much as output lag. If the video output is delayed (and on most systems I believe it is) it's the exact same result as if the input is delayed.

[@riggel8804]

Is output lag related to how games have lag baked into them? For example Battle Garega has 4 frames of lag on the PCB regardless of monitor or controller.

[@DavidFilskov]

I didn't know but sure, I guess. What I meant though, was that even though an emulated game might receive your action almost instantly the video output might be delayed a bit - e.g. by a slow flatpanel ... but I guess emulators also might have some buffering that creates lag. Even some MiSTer settings can cause 1-2 frames of lag.

[@riggel8804]

Oh okay. I see what you mean. I guess I have always called that display lag. Output lag is a good term. That's different than the lag baked into the rom that I mentioned. Willow Arcade, for example, has 4 frames of lag (maybe 3 I forget exactly) even on the MiSTer to a SD CRT. The rom itself has 4 frames of lag baked into it.

[@DavidFilskov]

That's surprising. Do you know why B. Garega and Willow has that?

[@riggel8804]

@@DavidFilskov I don't know why. Old console games i.e. NES, SNES almost always have 1 frame of lag baked in. Arcade games are all over the place- metal slug has 6 frames of lag but Shinobi only has 1 frame. You can test for yourself by loading a game in retroarch, pausing emulation (p hot key), and then advancing frame by frame while holding the direction pad down, you advance 1 frame by pressing k, if the sprite moves the first time you press k then there are zero frames of lag, if the sprite moves the 5th time you press k then there are 4 frames of lag. there is a bit more to it but that is the gist.I always test with a crt. I don't know if that matters though. This method only tests for the lag baked into the game. Not the lag added by emulation (emulation is paused).

[@michaels9917]

Are you using a SNAC adapter or some other low latency api (blister)?

[@riggel8804]

No. I use wired usb controllers and fight sticks. Imo there are better usb controllers out there than original hardware.

[@symphony137]

@@riggel8804 Original controllers + Daemonbite USB adapters is probably the best you can get in terms of latency. Aside from SNAC of course but the difference between those is 1 ms which is basically irrelevant and can be considered "no lag". There is a very useful latency chart for all kinds of controllers and adapters. Google "MiSTer FPGA Input Latency" and it should be the first site.

[@superhadouken]

I don't know how you configured retroarch with run ahead but you can achieve 0 input lag with it. If you pause the game, press a command and advance frame by frame the game with the "k" key, you can meassure how many frames you can reduce in options. So I press a key and in the next frame the move starts. I also have crtemudrivers with a pvm connected to rgb. I believe I have the fastest setup.

[@riggel8804]

It's still not zero input lag. Even with crtemudriver and runahead. I got a long ass video explaining it if your interested. It's low enough input lag though. It's one of my favorite ways to game.

[@superhadouken]

@@riggel8804 I'll check it

[@danielsanti9906]

The mister is the best, I got it because of the arcade cores and plus you can hook it up on the crt with component. When I started to play with it, i really felt like I was 13 years old again on the arcades including the turbografx 16 which I own back then.

[@riggel8804]

You and me both! TG16, component out, Neo Geo, Arcade cores. too much good stuff. I actually sold my tg16 to pay for my MiSTer.

[@danielsanti9906]

@@riggel8804lol, I sold my turbo duo for the 3do years ago and I regretted later in the years because I grow up on it and when I saw the value going up I had to get it back including the games and cost me a fortune. I sold all my nintendo stuff like the 3ds,GameCube,snes etc. I had too much clutter here it had to go, the mister just fills the goodness haha. I only own 3 system now and some arcade boards. But I think I have enough now. 😂 I should of bought the tg16 of you if I knew.

[@riggel8804]

@@danielsanti9906 Yeah I try to get rid of systems and stuff I'm not using. I feel a little guilty hoarding equipment I don't use. My tg16 hadn't been used in a year. I was playing a lot of tg16 games but I was playing all of them on my retroarch setup. The TG16 original hardware just has too many problems for me...I'm planning on playing Sprigen soon on the TG16 but right now I am working on a Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo hardest 1cc. Akuma is the real deal.

[@danielsanti9906]

@@riggel8804 nice...

[@_arkhea]

This is the sort of video i needed. Input lag and general inaccuracy is what puts me off mame/emulators most of the time. Being able to hook up a mister to my arcade cabinet and being able to play MVS arcade cores without lag is something i sorely, sorely needed, because you either get used to the lag and have a miserable experience when playing stuff like metal slug or viewpoint, or you drop several hundreds if not thousands for the carts themselves. Don't get me started on shmups, even on the original boards stuff like armed police batrider has at least 3 frames of input lag because of shoddy build/programming, and we're talking a thousand dollar+ PCB if you can actually find one for sale If arcade cores keep being added to it i can finally properly practice my good hard games without all the issues traditionally associated with trying to play them and get good. If it gets good enough, i don't think i'll ever need to buy new games again. Thank you.

[@riggel8804]

I helped fund a MiSTer project lately. It was a "trainer" for the Dodonpachi core. It enables level select, boss select, rank select etc. I hope other trainers come out on the MiSTer. There's a place for emulation. Metal slug is a good example. The arcade pcb has like 6 frames of lag baked into it. You can easily get less input lag with creative emulation-crtemudriver, fbneo, runahead.

[@_arkhea]

​@@riggel8804 Huh. I've got some catching up to do apparently, it's been years and years since i've been actively part of the whole arcade scene and up to date with emulators and the like. Time sure flies. I remember MS specifically being rather different from the board overall, and don't get me started on the ports. And the dodonpachi trainer thing is super nice, that's one of the other games i wanted a mister for. Thanks for the reply!

[@BattletoadOVerload]

Really liked the video! I remember someone was telling me that one of the emulation setups out there has no input delay.. I guess it was this one! And of course definitely the perfect level to test it out on. I had the exact same return to retro games as you did at first, playing on a flat screen with terrible delay lol. But could still beat some hard games. But not Battletoads.

[@FunkSkunkOfficial]

Hello :D

[@justz00t48]

MiSTer is expensive but it's still worth so much more than what it costs. Highly recommend the BlisSTer or a Bliss Box to go along with it.

[@riggel8804]

Is that the add on that lets you plug in original hardware controllers?

[@justz00t48]

Yes

[@riggel8804]

@@justz00t48 that's cool. Does it add input lag?

[@WalrusFPGA]

@@riggel8804 less than 1ms of lag, though can be variable depending on the controller you use. I use BlisSTer also, but a special note about that, is that it is only supported for its low lag serial mode in the major consoles. For arcade stuff or more obscure cores, it will just act as a standard USB device, but still should be 4ms or less that way.

[@justz00t48]

I use the Bliss Box via a USB hub and I am a bit sensitive to input lag on emulation. Personally the experience going this route feels the same as real hardware to me so input lag must be pretty low.

[@WilsonCQB1911]

Do you have an NT Mini or RetroUSB AVS? Wonder how it compares. Mister is on my short to get list mainly for the CPS2 cores. I have analogue and terraonion and krikzz stuff for everything else. Thanks for the video!

[@riggel8804]

You're welcome. No I don't have an avs or any analogue stuff. I game in rgb or component on CRTs and I remember when I looked into the avs and analogue products it was hard to get analog rgb/component out of them so I never bought one. Also, I remember when I was looking into getting the teraonion tg16 attachment it was crazy expensive and you still had to deal with all the tg16 issues (jailbars, short controller). I think the MiSTer is worth it just for the tg16 core paired with the analog io board-superior to original hardware in every way.

[@jrose5080]

@@riggel8804 I have the NT mini and it is better than the Mister at least a little because it does not have usb polling . I can easily beat Mike Tyson on NT mini with a 10-12 ms lag lcd monitor and I have beat Mike on Mister but it took a little longer. I suppose if I tried the snac or bliss adapter that makes the controller have low or zero lag it would be the same. I love the Mister though more than the analogue nt mini for so many other reasons. Great video by the way and nothing but respect for battletoads as that is just insane hard in my opinion.

[@riggel8804]

@@jrose5080 thanks! Mike Tyson comes up a lot as a good lag test. I haven't beat it yet. Hopefully someday.

[@robbystrange4772]

What transcoder do you use with your crtemudriver setup?

[@riggel8804]

The one I use isn't available anymore. This is the dudes ebay link www.ebay.com/usr/linuxbot3000 You can contact him and ask him to make you one. His is cool because it takes a standard vga cable rgb and ouputs rca cable component. Most of the other transcoders take scart cable rgb. That means you need another device to take the vga cable and convert it to scart before you plug it into your rgb to component converter. Retrotink "rgb to comp" is a product I can recommend. The shinybo works good too You might end up needing something like this too www.retrorgb.com/vga-to-scart-sync-combiner.html

[@teddybeer6206]

He restocks pretty frequently though.

[@robbystrange4772]

@@riggel8804 thanks riggel. I can't wait until I get my setup going. *edit* I got it working! :)

[@AlexeyMelnikovSB]

Some correction: vsync option doesn't affect VGA output. So either simply use VGA output (regardless vsync) or you can use HDMI with vsync_adjust=2 to achieve the same no-lag output (but LCD TV itself may add lag which is beyond MiSTer control). Did i understand right, you are using USB gamepad with MiSTer?

[@riggel8804]

Alright cool. Thanks for clarifying. I asked a few people about this earlier but never got a clear answer so I just set vsync to 2 to be safe. I will change the video description. I am using a hori fighting commander usb controller.

[@riggel8804]

Can I expect the same levels of input lag from other cores?

[@WalrusFPGA]

@@riggel8804 Yes. One of MiSTer's core benefits is low lag native output, and this applies to all cores. You may need to use HDMI with vsync_Adjust 0 for some of the computer cores with odd refreshrates, if your display doesnt support them natively.

[@AlexeyMelnikovSB]

@@riggel8804 yes. the same for all cores.

[@riggel8804]

@@WalrusFPGA Cool thanks. I haven't dived into the computer cores yet but I will keep that in mind.

[@lalos3813]

What is your controller setup on the Mister? Nes to USB adapter? And if so, which one. Raphnet? 8bitdo?

[@riggel8804]

No. I use a cheap usb hub and usb controllers. I have a hori fighting commander pad and a madcatz fightstick pro arcade stick. I have no desire to plug in original hardware... Except maybe the genesis controller to play Landstalker.

[@lalos3813]

@@riggel8804 ok cool. I have a nes/snes classic controller wired to a 8bitdo Wiimote adapter & it's flawless. I can beat mike Tyson without getting hit on my crt. BTW, savestates are in beta but should be publicly available shortly 😉

[@riggel8804]

@@lalos3813that's really cool. I've heard of people getting really low lag out of wireless controllers but I've never got into it. Maybe someday. T

[@lalos3813]

@@riggel8804 the adapter has the option of Bluetooth or wired so I just use wired. I hear good things about the 2.4ghz 8bitdo line & Retro bit controllers. 2.4ghz on a crt is near perfect if you're not playing battletoads or punchout

[@mattsebastian97]

Great video my man!

[@riggel8804]

Thanks!

[@joshforsyth5710]

How do you test how many frames of lag you have in a setup. I'm curious to test HDMI to Component lag. I don't really notice any but I would like to see.

[@riggel8804]

I have taught myself to feel how many frames of lag a game has. I did a video on it. To objectively test a setup the easiest way is probably the pad hack technique. I will get back to you with a link how to do it.

[@riggel8804]

Welp I used to have a link detailing how to do the pad hack technique. It was in the electric underground website but the website appears down. Sorry

[@joshforsyth5710]

@@riggel8804 it's all good

[@quartz3141]

240p test suite has a test with two polygons where you press a button when they line up and it tells you how many frames off you are which gives you a good idea

[@nimbylive]

What is the setup you use for your MISTer to output component without lag? I want a MISTer but I can't tell if folks use the HDMI out from the base DE-10 nano with an HDMI to RCA converter or add IO board that has an RGA out. Then use a converter from that to RCA cables.

[@riggel8804]

I use the io board and I bought a cheap cable off amazon. It has vga on one end and component rca on the other.

[@Paradoxwhirl]

Are you using SNAC for the Mister joypad or a bluetooth receiver?

[@riggel8804]

@@Paradoxwhirl wired hori fighting commander for this one. Usb.

[@williamdelaar6216]

Could you tell us in more detail your Setup with the Mister.

[@riggel8804]

I got a IO board outputting component video to my extron component switcher. I use a cheap amazon vga to component cable. another cheap component cable takes the signal from my component switcher to my crts. I think I filmed this off my bm1911 crt. All of my crts are standard def. I use a cheap usb hub and a hori fighting comander usb pad.

[@Celso_PQD_]

I'm entering the world of (MiSTer FPGA), I think it's the future of retro games

[@cinestubborn]

Love from Mumbai India! What controller do you use for Mister? I use Xbox One. Is it good?

[@riggel8804]

I never used an x box controller. I use a madcatz pro fight stick and a hori fighting commander pad. I can recommend both of those. I actually have a video about controllers coming out next week.

[@overdriver99]

awesome video! I wondered your controller but you answered it already. I use real NES, NES classic, Mister FPGA and retroarch(computer). I think Mister is the best for input lag. only thing miss is some other enhancement like real time state saving comparing to software emulation but it is coming as beta feature. My only complaint about Mister is.. it is ugly LOL

[@riggel8804]

Thanks! I agree, It doesn't have much style compared to an original nes or sega genesis but that's not a priority for me.

[@user-yk1cw8im4h]

Print yourself a v2 case, it’s freakin beautiful.

[@riggel8804]

@@user-yk1cw8im4h our printer at work only does paper right now. We looked at getting the MiSTer box printer but decided to wait. The Budweiser printer should be coming out this summer and we go through a lot of Budweiser.

[@danilodequeiroz9520]

Are you using SNAC adapter or just regular USB controller, which one in this case?

[@riggel8804]

usb. hori fighting commander

[@michaelmcneill6516]

I just have to add that some cores on MiSTer do have save states. I was playing some PS1 games last night on my MiSTer and I used save states on that core. I wish every core had save states but the benefits of using a MiSTer far out weigh not having save states on every core.

[@riggel8804]

The nes core has 4 save states now. It's awesome. Just used it to do my Batletoads playthrough. It's supposedly virtually impossible to do save states on some cores i.e. Genesis.

[@rengawg]

Hello,Congratulations on the video!!! Were you playing by cable or via bluetooth in mister??? Were you playing via cable or via bluetooth on the NES???

[@riggel8804]

I always use wired controllers. On everything. Nes and MiSTer

[@al303576]

Like regular usb controller or THE SNAC

[@stephaniejennings2673]

The Mr. Is an emulation setup with no input lag😎

[@retromister81]

Save States are availble for the NES since May 2021

[@DKOG73]

Awesome video!! Thanks for sharing.I talk about Lag free / original hardware gaming as well. I play DK Arcade all the time and without JAMMA its not the same! Great story about how you started down the path of lag free gaming. I have yet to use a MiSTer! I have built a ton of emulation devices and i too have heard the MiSTer gospel from a lot of people. Can you point me in the most time efficient way to get started with MiSTer? Normally I would just buy the hw and figure it out! Slammed right now!!

[@riggel8804]

Yeah I can help you out. What to do want to use it for? Are you planning on hooking it up to a lcd, crt, or JAMMA to an arcade cab?

[@DKOG73]

@@riggel8804 Riggel!! Thanks for helping me with this. I like to play NES on it. Can you do multiple consoles on same drive or is something where I should use a separate MicoSD for each emu. Other question can I buy one preconfigured? I have worked on a lot of different emu devices and honestly right now just want to play games! Lol. That 60/1 mod video I just did took forever. In any case good connecting and excited to have fun with the MiSTer!!

[@riggel8804]

@@DKOG73 the nes is awesome on the MiSTer. You can natively output any video signal,rgb,component, s video etc. It has save states. It can play the famicom games with expanded audio channels i.e. dracula 3. You only need one sd card for everything. I have every snes,gen,nintendo,neo geo etc game all on one sd card. Can can buy a pre configured one but if you want to hook up to a crt you will need to edit a text file. The pre configured models are expensive. Like 450$. You could maybe get it down to like 200$ or $300. If you put it together yourself. I can send you some links. Do you want to hook up to a crt or flat-screen?

[@DKOG73]

@@riggel8804 you In my Arcade I have a 4K Samsung on the wall. I have a 1080p Plasma and 27” CRT what would you recommend? Also are you using 8bitdo controllers?

[@riggel8804]

@@DKOG73 i don't use any wireless controllers because of the input lag. I use a hori fighting commander usb pad and a madcatz pro fight stick. I would say to start out use the 4k lcd. The input lag out the hdmi on the MiSTer is extremely low. You can 3nable scanlines on the MiSTer and it makes even a cheap lcd look like a bvm. I don't know the details about the MiSTer scanlines but they are different than other consoles. Personally I have my MiSTer hooked up to 3 crts. A bvm ,a 36 inch yoko, and a 27 inch tate. You can do this too but is a little more complicated to setup and you will need additional hardware. Check this reply in a few minutes and i will edit some links to it. kzbin.info/www/bejne/lZiXaGSfor10bbc kzbin.info/www/bejne/oXnKhWWpmLOZpJY kzbin.info/www/bejne/hZy0e2OMmJxod6c github.com/MiSTer-devel/Main_MiSTer/wiki misteraddons.com/

[@In-Ear-Studio]

3m, that’s my reason to have all kinds of material in my studio too.. not to show stuff.. I’m searching for the better system available that doesn’t have this lag..

[@ChiefGore429]

I could never beat the speeder bike level but we were always playing co-op.

[@riggel8804]

I could never beat it as a kid either. Funny thing is that it's actually one of the easier levels in the game. Battletoads is pretty hard.

[@leonardocaldasmonteiro1912]

Excellent 👌

[@9897samf]

Can you beat this level on an LCD with MISTER?

[@charvelgtrs]

I can beat Tyson using MiSTer on my AOC PC LCD Monitor and LG CX OLED.

[@9897samf]

@@charvelgtrs Cool. This is game changer then.

[@riggel8804]

I haven't tried but my son has a low latency LCD monitor and it would be interesting to test it with the clinger winger. I will say that the video quality, with scanlines enabled, looks amazing via the MiSTer to even my cheap LCD screen. It looks like a 900 line BVM with low hours.

[@charvelgtrs]

NES Core now has save states.

[@riggel8804]

Thanks! I'm going to be playing Eliminate Down on the MiSTer this weekend. I will update the MiSTer while I'm at it.

[@ninetendopesaitama2107]

Not to be a geek. ;) But the MiSTer is not emulation. Its a recreation or simulation of hw. Emulation is a software running on a OS software (Windows/Linux) emulating roms. Emulation has wrong audio or not sync audio and of course the input lag. MiSTer is better in every way.

[@riggel8804]

It's kinda of like a multi system clone console.

[@DeadBen.]

@@riggel8804 A big difference is the MiSTer runs all the simulated chips in parallel; while regular emulation has to run everything in sequence. Original hardware expects the code sent to chips A, B, C, etc to all be processed at the same time in parallel. The MiSTer can do that due to the hardware simulation on the FPGA. Regular emulation uses the CPU to run instructions for multiple chips in sequence rather than in parallel which is one of the reasons the timing isn't quite right in many cases.

[@rs.matr1x]

It is emulation, it's hardware emulation by definition. as opposed to software emulation.

[@dinierto]

The MiSTer is indeed emulation, but it uses an FPGA rather than software for the emulation. It's also not inherently more accurate, which is a common misconception. It's only as good as it's programmed to be, and often there is overlap between software and hardware emulation as far as functionality and timings go. The big advantage of FPGA is that it can run instructions concurrently in the same way original hardware does so it doesn't have to adjust for timings of the parent hardware, and doesn't have the overhead that a software emulator has

[@mark_yt91]

i can finish this level on retroarch with mesen core 10/10

[@riggel8804]

what is your lag setup?

[@mark_yt91]

@@riggel8804 you mean run ahead? if yes, then 1 and video driver, vulkan, everything on high with filters, shaders, etc, i dont like when nes flickers

[@riggel8804]

@@mark_yt91 why vulkan? Crt?

[@reginaldstubtoe4185]

a crt saves you a quarter of a frame at best over most lcds

[@riggel8804]

ha

[@tjanas]

Pretty sure there is some input lag, and probably more input lag than on an Analogue Nt Mini or Nt Mini Noir, which has native controllers wired directly to its FPGA.

[@riggel8804]

Even original hardware has 1 frame if lag. I'm not arguing that the MiSTer has zero lag. I'm demonstrating that the MiSTer has equivalent lag performance to original hardware for even the most demanding sections of gameplay.

[@dinierto]

It depends on what you're using. USB gamepads have their own input lag, so if you're using one of those, you can get anywhere from below 1 ms of input lag and higher. If you use SNAC it's the same as it would be on the console. Either way, setting USB to fast polling and using a decent USB controller or adapter you wouldn't notice that extra 1 ms :)

[@RoboyZHunter]

I don't even get it like I did battletoads speed running on retro arch and I best the living shit out of this level, are you sure retro arch is really that bad like say it is.

[@riggel8804]

I played the level on retroarch about ten times recently and about 20 times on a previous attempt. My video is based on those attempts. What is your retro arch setup?

[@RoboyZHunter]

@@riggel8804 set up as in my settings or the machine I use?

[@RoboyZHunter]

My settings for the speed run was running ahead 2 frames and I used the mesen core, not sure if the core has anything to do with the latency, but just try them out and see what happens. I was able to best battletoads on both a crt and my low lag lcd monitor.

[@riggel8804]

@@RoboyZHunter that's cool. Yes deferent emulators have different lag. Nestopis was the worst ftom what I could tell. I always wanted to do a 2 player Battletoads clear. I know that the game will only let one player clear the clinger winger so it's kinda goofy but I think it would be fun.