Mitering and tacking the front triangle // Romax Build Part 1 - Framebuilding 101 with Paul Brodie

[@TL243]

What a great video. Love exploring your library again and again.

[@paulbrodie]

Thank you very much. I'm happy we have a resource you can turn to when needed!

[@abandoneduniverses]

Luminous salutations from Greece and a vintage mtb collector your videos are truly awesome...

[@paulbrodie]

Hello Greece! Thanks for watching.

[@Frascaframes]

Thank you for putting all this online! Best subscription of the year, I'm on my second frame and I find this video dripping gold.

[@markfreemantle478]

It's great to watch you at work, Paul. I remember the first time I saw one of your frames in the late 80's or early '90's - the sloping top tube just made so much sense. I owned a bike shop in England at the time and persuaded my customer to let me ride his bike. I loved the way it handled so much I incorporated much of your design into my next frame. You're a legend! Thanks so much for making the videos.

[@davidpayumo23]

Awesome!!!

[@alexreynolds2307]

all of your tricks and fixtures are so simple and effective its brilliant. it reminds me not to get lost in the tiny details, I learn so much from every video. thank you for taking the time to make these!

[@paulbrodie]

Thank you Alex, and thanks to everyone else who likes our videos :)

[@walthansen6333]

You're probably getting sick of hearing from me, but again... FANTASTIC video. Damn, wish I'd done this for a living.

[@fantasticplastic5336]

That was a great watch. I always thought holes drilled into the tubes were for the pressure build up inside when welding not water.

[@paulbrodie]

Glad you enjoyed it.

[@driesinthemountains1964]

awesome! so good for us newbies

[@FreeskierSean]

So much good stuff in these videos! Thanks Paul and Mitch. Excited for the next one.

[@malc8614]

Awesome

[@dwang8]

thank you for doing this!!!

[@nicholasschultz951]

As always, super impressive, i feel like a sponge when I am watching these videos, there is so much that I learn. Thank you Paul.

[@paulbrodie]

I have felt like a sponge many times. It can be a good way to be. Thanks for liking our videos.

[@lynxg4641]

Just found your channel from NSMB and have to say a huge thank you for sharing your knowledge like this and making it so accessible. As I said before, have always thought of building my own frame and this is pushing me to really do it.

[@paulbrodie]

I think you should build your own frame!

[@leonardonaylor8671]

This is great

[@ivancolon9756]

Just found this channel and I'm loving it so far, keep up the great work and thanks for all the wonderful content!

[@CK-gu4dm]

Thank you guys so much! All this is worth a lot!

[@amc_sounds]

Outstanding work. Gotta love a monster head-tube. She's gonna be one hell of a rider ❤️

[@alexball5907]

Really enjoying this series.

[@benc8386]

Beautiful work. When you got to that last mitre I was expecting you'd leave it just a little bit long and then sneak up on it. But no, perfect first time!

[@heyimamaker]

This is one of the best things to come out of 2020, I just wish I found it months ago 😂

[@TheRadioStu]

15:26 “That’s my eye-crometer”. Haha!

[@paulbrodie]

Stu, you catch on quick!

[@mb-shadow-f2v]

wow - so cool. the iconic 'brodie romax'. when you decide to sell that beaut I'll be here :)

[@paulbrodie]

Thanks. I think I will have that bike for a very, very long time ☺

[@mb-shadow-f2v]

@@paulbrodie soooooo, are you taking commissions then? :D

[@paulbrodie]

@@mb-shadow-f2v No time, I am retired and have a full time KZbin job.

[@wesleyrourke]

A good day in the office.

[@metaldoktor8862]

That is very interesting and education you’re a very clever man

[@paulbrodie]

I just like #makingstuff because I'm a #fussyframebuilder. Thanks for watching!

[@agemackenzie9740]

Think that may be four times I have watched that. Great stuff. Not quite sure why you ovalise the seat tube at the bottom bracket end. I can see why you do the down tube and top tube to the head tube...to give more room to fillet at the edges. But why the bottom bracket?

[@paulbrodie]

Ovalizing the seat tube gives you a little more room for brazing or Tig welding to the down tube. Also adds a little bit of torsional stiffness. It's also a "look".

[@luisweber960]

So great you are putting out these videos! They have literally enabled me to start building my own steel MTB! Is there any way to contact you for specific questions? That would be awesome!

[@paulbrodie]

My email is listed somewhere in the description...

[@Korina42]

Silly question; you made provisions to get water out of the down tube and seat tube, but what about getting the water out of the bottom bracket?

[@paulbrodie]

Some builders drill and tap a 5mm thread under the BB. Then you just take out the screw if you want to check for moisture. Not a silly question..

[@markyandle4196]

Thanks Paul, great videos, huge amounts of information! Just curious, a lot of other builders, and lots of the things I have read, start with the seat tube as the first tube and point of reference. Any reason why you start with the down tube?

[@paulbrodie]

Good question Mark. Every framebuilder does things their way, and for various reasons. My question to you: which is the more important connection... down tube to BB or seat tube to BB? When I asked my Framebuilding 101 students, without exception, they all said down tube to BB. And that's my answer too. So why then would you attach the seat tube first, and then have to notch the downtube? That makes no sense to me. A lot of my framebuilding processes are based on logic and common sense. Hope this makes sense to you too.

[@markyandle4196]

@@paulbrodie thanks for replying, appreciate you taking the time! Makes sense as the downtube is under more stress.

[@macendy1]

Hi Paul. Greetings from Slovakia. I love your videos. So much so I want to try to build my own frame. I would like to ask what is aproximate burn time spent on 1 frame? I was unable to find such info.

[@paulbrodie]

Hello Slovakia. Thanks for watching! By "burn time" do you mean total time spent on one frame? Well, a lot of that depends on experience, jigs and fixtures available, and the quality. For your first frame 30-40 hours would be a reasonable guess. When we were making a lot of frames our average was 7-8 hours / frame. The fastest we ever made a batch of (10) frames was 4 hours each, never to be repeated. I have heard of a builder who could make a frame in 2 hours, but for that I really do equation the quality...🤨

[@macendy1]

@@paulbrodie, to be more precise, I meant the time when the torch is on. Burn time. I just made it up I guess 😀 I am already putting in some hours working on a jig and mittering the test tubes with a file. I wanted to have an idea how much gas will I need for 1 frame to decide on the size of the oxy-acetylene kit. I already intend to build 2 frames, but I am not sure yet if I will build more.

[@paulbrodie]

It depends how fast you are. One of my students set a record for brazing his chain stays onto the BB... 2 hours and 47 minutes. I timed myself.... 22 minutes. That is burn time. 🤓

[@macendy1]

@@paulbrodie Thank you sir.

[@janpettermyhre898]

Great tutorial Paul, may I ask what kind of hole saws you are using? With an arbor or not?

[@paulbrodie]

Someone else was wondering too. I order from Sabre Industrial and they sell several high quality brands, so, as long as the quality is good, I'm not fussy on brands. Yes, I made my own arbors from 3/4" cold rolled and Grade 8 red-rod. Thanks for watching!

[@vmoney9106]

When you mentioned your butt detector, all I could think of was Beavis and Butthead snickerin. Anyways, this is a fascinating series, thank you. My first and second real mountain bikes were Brodies (2001 Climbmax and a 2004 8Ball).

[@paulbrodie]

Thank you.

[@ResonantElecDesign]

What kind of tubing did you use on this build? Currently shopping for tubes for my first frame...the options are dizzying!

[@paulbrodie]

The top and down tube are Tange Prestige 8/5/8. Hard to find because it was made over 30 years ago. Seat tube is Columbus 9/6. Seat stays and chain stays are also old stock Tange.

[@ResonantElecDesign]

@@paulbrodie First build, with only a hack saw and files...I'm probably going to go with something like 631. I'll be re-re-re-watching this series of videos and sending you coffees as I go through the process!

[@paulbrodie]

@@ResonantElecDesign When I first started I had very little in the way of tools. It's surprising what you can do with very little. Good luck!

[@jorgeperez2347]

Can i ask why tacking first the frame with TIG and not make that spot with braze? I mean I understand that it is about the deformation when you heat the area with braze, but making it carefully there might not have problem, right? Thank you for this videos, I still learning each time i see one of these series.

[@paulbrodie]

If you don't have a Tig machine yes you can tack with the torch. It just takes longer because you are waiting for the steel to come up to temperature. It works fine for the front triangle. The problems come tacking the rear end. Mostly because you can only tack one stay at a time. The torch heats the stay, making it grow a little in length, and then you add the braze. This puts a little pressure on the jig. Now the stay begins to cool, and shorten, and pulls the jig while you are heating the other end of the stay. Even if you have a "perfect" jig, your frame alignment might be out a little or a lot depending on technique. That's why it is so much better to tack the rear end with Tig.The tack happens so fast very little heat goes into the stay. In a perfect world.

[@jorgeperez2347]

@@paulbrodieThank you so much for taking a time for your detailled answer. What you say makes sense, in my country is harder to get access to tig, thinking about It making that spots with MIG (Its not that precise and Heat more the frame comparing with TIG i know) but should work for tacking, what do you think? Hace you ever tried that? And again thanks for your answer

[@paulbrodie]

@@jorgeperez2347 I've never used Mig, but I doubt if you have the same level of control as Tig, especially on thin wall tubing. Probably best to stick with oxygen-acetylene..

[@jorgeperez2347]

@@paulbrodie okey its nice to know. Thank you Paul

[@dennisyoung4631]

Would the nickel-silver braze work by itself, in terms of adequate strength?

[@paulbrodie]

Probably, but the fillet braze over top is like a huge insurance policy.

[@dennisyoung4631]

@@paulbrodie sort of like lugs in a lugged frame?

[@paulbrodie]

@@dennisyoung4631 No, that's a different application. Do a search on frame building with lugs, and you will see it is not the same as fillet brazing for quite a few reasons.

[@aaronmouldey2253]

These videos are awesome. I was just curious, why don't you TIG weld the whole frame?

[@paulbrodie]

Tig and fillet brazing really are 2 different styles of framebuilding.. I wanted a fillet brazed Romax but it's perfectly acceptable to Tig-tack.

[@ResonantElecDesign]

If you only had a torch at your disposal, would you tack with nickel silver, or brass? I think I can guess the answer...

[@paulbrodie]

I have some 1/16" brass rods but I never use them.

[@dmitrisafonov6976]

Are these stainless steel pipes?

[@paulbrodie]

No, they are Tange tubes, heat treated 4130 and micro polished. We don't call them pipes. Pipes are crude, heavy things that plumbers have to deal with.

[@dmitrisafonov6976]

@@paulbrodie Thank you paul, I wrote the comment while watching your video, before I got to the part where you mentioned the 4130 alloy. They looked like stainless, and I was surprised at the ease your hole saw went right through them. I work a lot with stainless steel pipes and tubes (pipes go by inner diameter, and thickness is referred to by "schedule", while tubes are OD, and thickness is in units), and schedule 40 stainless pipes are tough to notch.

[@paulbrodie]

@@dmitrisafonov6976 Thanks for watching!

[@robertmiles6492]

Not all art is on canvas

[@joelrunyan1608]

Must be a Canadian thing... calling a band saw a "hack" saw..

[@paulbrodie]

That's what I've always called them, and I am Canadian, eh?

[@joelrunyan1608]

@@paulbrodie I'm close to Canadian... Detroit.. eh?

[@joelrunyan1608]

@@paulbrodie 🤣🤣 I'm watching you romax pt 2 right now... and you called a hand hacksaw blade.... a hacksaw blade... dunno if Allen millyard would approve

[@paulbrodie]

@@joelrunyan1608 I am on the West Coast, very close to Fort Langley and the mighty Fraser River, eh? 🙃

[@Kianarevision]

Nice video! I think you'd enjoy my videos too. Keep up the great work! 💜💕

[@paulbrodie]

Thanks. Your comment just showed up one year later. How does that happen?

[@Kianarevision]

@@paulbrodie must've thought my comment was spam. Lol