Norton Commando Anti wet sumping upgrade by AMR

[@stewy62]

Not for the 1st time watching these videos I’m so impressed that in the USA 🇺🇸 you have a mini industry not just keeping these machines on the road but actually improving them 🇬🇧🏍

[@swooshdave]

The bikes are still affordable here and there are still a lot running around. We’ve had to get creative keeping 50 yr old motorcycles going.

[@johnmcclain3887]

I've worked on them since the seventies, and never recognized it as you describe, but quite apt, I particularly enjoy the garage.

[@JohnMcClain-p9t]

Some of us really love the old Brit bikes! Got one in the garage and three in my machine shop, wish I still had all the ones I've sold over the years, about four since the seventies.

[@JohnMcClain-p9t]

Very nicely shown, sounds like a good fix for an old Harley as well! Just a little bit of wet-sumping! Thanks Mike

[@TheMightyGarage]

Thanks John👍 yes, that was a really good model that Dave did for his bike. Cheers, Mike

[@kfellens]

Good video Dave!

[@pdm2201]

Good job! Very informative.

[@stancoleshill8925]

At 4:48 he uses a pair of vice grips to break the locked taper. There is a special tool to do this, 060934. I once made one of these out of a 5/16-24 bolt with a bit of rod, silver soldered to the end. Personally, the wet sumping doesn't affect me, but when I did have some concern, I just used the left foot peg to rest the bike on instead of the side stand. Of course I used a block of wood about a foot high. Still ride the (1970) bike today after buying it in 1973.

[@RWayne-nu2fi]

Thanks for the detailed video, I enjoyed it. Nice looking Interstate too!

[@ulrich.hoffmann]

A well made and useful upgrade!

[@nicolasdolley3882]

Thanks a lot guys. Very usefull kind of topics for norton's owners

[@practicalplinking6133]

reading the manual is most helpful and seal drivers work better than rounded socket faces

[@chriscarbaugh3936]

That is interesting. Almost sold me. I need to think about it a bit more. My bike wet sumps to the extent that anything more than 2 weeks I need to drain and refill. A slight PITA.

[@coreylevenson]

Another thing to add to my to-do list. ;-) Thanks for another interesting video!

[@andyreisch6755]

I have a simple shut off valve in the oil line wired up so that when it is in the off position the bike cant start. Simple and cost efficient. get them from Feked in UK.

[@swooshdave]

That is certainly another option that many people use.

[@TheDavey333]

You sitting in the directors chair now Mike 😀 Well done Dave, a good modification 👍 Have a great week ☕️🫖

[@TheMightyGarage]

Hehe. Yes, Dave did all the work for this vid 😉

[@aircooled2068]

You would think heavy 20/50 oil would not get past the shells in the rods when engine not running,but it happens Great vid as allways

[@mikeymike3240]

Hi Mike, another awesome video man, really informative for anyone with one of those Norton’s, and he explained things really well , even someone like me can follow it , lol 😝

[@jontg429]

When I was in college at U of A I stumbled upon AMR after walking by it after a raging kegger party! Anyhow, a week later I decided to stop by and got to know Kas and Mike somewhat well. I was a broke college kid so all I did was buy Classic Bike magazines from them every month, but it was good to chat with them about british bikes. Fast forward, still have not had a british bike but still lust for one, maybe someday....

[@TheMightyGarage]

Thanks a lot for sharing this great story! You would love a Commando! They are awesome bikes 😀 best wishes

[@martindavies8326]

Great modification, very interesting.⚙️🔩🔧👍

[@mitchburk5112]

I've got three Commandos on the road with these mods. No problems and no more wet sumping. I would never use a valve in the feed line. BSA's twins and triples and Triumph triples also use an internal check ball on the pressure side of the pump. Triumph twin rarely wet sump as they use a plunger pump instead of a rotary like Nortons, BSA twins and triples and Triumph triples. One suggestion. Before you take out the ignition plate, mark it and the case. As long as you don't turn the crank the timing should be spot on when you put it back. Check it with a strobe though.

[@swooshdave]

Ignition plate is marked. And I rechecked the timing later too.

[@tadpoles10]

Thanks for sharing guys, something not so serious on the T100 but never the less an interesting 'up grade' .. 👍 atvb t ..

[@gerrypowell2748]

Good modification✌️

[@nickohare7187]

Looks interesting but I am too paranoid to mess with the oil feed. I am with you on draining after a long rest up and using it as an opportunity to do an oil change. It looks like I wont get to see my old girl till September if France will let us in from Plague Island. That will be a whole Nortonless year. Oh the frustration!!

[@gerrypowell2748]

I had presumed France can let you in,have you been vaccinated😳

[@nickohare7187]

@@gerrypowell2748 Sadly not. If I was an EU citizen I could move freely but thanks to the Brexitards I cannot. I would have to quarantine in France

[@jimbyrne9071]

Looks like a good updrade.

[@snake_eyes_garage]

I guess at this point if I am swapping out my Boyer to a Mark IV I should just go ahead and do this modification while I'm at this. Thanks for the details Dave and Mike. :-)

[@C_Dana]

Here in the States we love Nortons more than any other Brit bike. Since the first Commando ad in Cycle World I've always had an obsession with Nortons...Vivien Neves helped a lot 😁!

[@TheMightyGarage]

Hehe! I still have some of the Norton girl advertisements inside old motorcycle magazines. Timeless beauties 😉

[@brucebear1]

Mike Ofield (factory stylist and planner) and I took a couple of Commandos down to London for a photo shoot for the candy red 850 ('73 model). Vivien Neves was the model and it was shot while she was pregnant. There's a "Norton Girl" photo with Vivien standing behind the motorcycle leaning on a Bell Star helmet with her arm across her tummy. Now you know the full story!

[@mikeshay6614]

I use a ball valve and put labels on the mirror to remind me to turn it on.

[@pdm2201]

I installed a in line valve on the oil feed line just above the transmission. When the valve is closed and stopping oil from seeping into the timing cover the lever is pointing upward. The ignition key hooks on to the lever so I don’t forget to open the valve before starting the bike.

[@billmauerman5113]

I'd like to see what you did and what kind of valve you used. A pic or two would be great, if you can. Makes good sense and a hell of a lot easier and less $$ I'm sure.

[@amsccoachjeff2382]

Interesting, but not sure about the o’rings under the pump gears if that’s what they are.

[@Kevin-cy9cv]

Interesting stuff

[@wdhewson]

Interesting approach to the sumping issue. Thanks. I have half a memory during my "machinery days" that O-rings don't make very good dynamic seals. As in the pump shafts modification. Hence the spring assisted lip seal in virtually all dynamic sealing applications. But maybe this is more a theoretical worry than a practical worry. Chime in guys.................................

[@swooshdave]

The o-ring doesn’t make the actual seal of the ball to the pump. I’m not sure if I mistakenly said that in the video. The o-ring seals the oil pump outlet to the timing cover.

[@timmyc7898]

Hi, Is the wetsump system still working well? Thinking about having it done to my Commando. Thank you!

[@mickducati1947]

🤔 interesting Mike 👍

[@thomastraddles1204]

I'm with you and your other paranoid viewer. I have a P11 which I will continue to drain and refill so I can sleep at night

[@michaelhayward7572]

Wet sumping is generally a modern day phenomana. Why? Because these bikes are rarely daily drivers anymore. Some, not even weekly. Hence wet sumping. Virtually nobody talked about this problem back in the 50-60-70's, because... they were working bikes. Not Garage Queens. I'm not one to talk, because my owned- from-new T140 stroker, runs a Morgo rotary pump which will wet sump if the wind is blowing in the wrong direction.

[@johnwilcox4078]

Agree, when I bought my new 73 Roadster I never heard of wet sumping. Not surprising since there was seldom a day it didnt run! Today my 3rd 73 Commando sits for weeks sometimes and I do have wet sumping, quite aware of the problem now!

[@bluesplayer59]

Wonderful and informative 👍

[@MrSantacruzz]

Its still asking for trouble l think, these old air cooled bikes rely 100% a full constant oil flow. Best method is to simply draw the oil out of the oil tank after use then pour back in before riding

[@candymintz]

at the start i had the volume off, i thought the guy was proposing to his motorcycle, the down on one knee thing

[@swooshdave]

I've been married to that bike longer than I've been married to my wife, so there's that...

[@TheMightyGarage]

😂😂

[@phill2303]

Me too. 74 roadster bought fresh out of the box in 76, paid off 2 yrs later. Been paying for the wife since 81. Wife is jealous - bike still looks good as new@@swooshdave

[@garethlloyd-jones4439]

when I leave my commando parked up for any real length of time, I just put a hose clamp on my oil feed, like the one in the video, and that does the trick. It's bright orange so I can't forget to remove it before start up. Does anyone feel that this technique could pose a problem? cheers Gareth

[@daveb1268]

Very nice piece of kit & a very comprehensive video but personally not for me. I've never really trusted an anti drain valve as it's just another (critical) component that can go wrong.

[@swooshdave]

With anything you have to calculate what could fail and if it fails what could happen. In this case if the spring failed the ball bearing wouldn’t seat but you would still have oil pressure. This is different from anti-sump spring valves located before the oil pump.

[@daveb1268]

@@swooshdaveMany thanks for the reply. I guess I'm just set in my old ways ! There's no doubt that what you've fitted looks like what really should have been a factory modification when production was in full swing.

[@swooshdave]

@@daveb1268 Well, it’s very similar to what they used on the MkIII timing cover although on the MkIII it’s more toward the crank.

[@daveb1268]

@@swooshdave Cheers Dave, I hope the new kit gives you many miles of trouble free service 👍

[@kfellens]

@@daveb1268 It's the same as the MkIII modification, but the MkIII mod uses a cylindrical plunger where the ball is and blanks off the OPV at the timing cover instead of the crankcase.

[@metalmoon2827]

A nice upgrade. Is there an address or website for AMR?

[@TheMightyGarage]

Hi, there's link to AMR in the description of the vid. Cheers, Mike

[@tomgarney7700]

Mike could you do a follow up video on this mod? I have one of those anti sump valve in my supply line and I want to get it out of there. When I start the bike the return in the oil tank doesn’t show oil coming out of the engine. There is a video on KZbin that shows that shows the common anti sump valve prevents the oil pump from priming and winds up blocking the oil flow. How about those manual anti sump valves?

[@TheMightyGarage]

Thanks Tom, I got your reply. I'll check in with Dave but I think it's going great! Cheers, Mike

[@davidmacgregor5193]

Hello Mike, thanks for posting the video. My 2011 H-D XL883N has been standing for some time over the pandemic lockdown and unfortunately wet sumping has occurred, The oil tank is almost empty, what would you advise as the best plan of action to resolve this? I've thought of draining some oil out of the sump through the rubber drain hose, measuring the quantity of oil and refilling the oil tank with the same amount of fresh oil. Another idea that I've come up with is to press the engine kill switch to don't run and press the starter switch until the oil pump sends oil up to the tank. I've heard that if you start up a Harley that has wet sumped it will pour oil out of the head breather bolts and into the oil filter, is that true? Any advice would be much appreciated, thank you.

[@rexrodgers1113]

I have a '96 883 Sportster that will wet sump if its parked for a while. Sometimes about 1/2 of the tank has drained into the engine and when it does this, I crank the engine up and let it idol with dipstick out so I can watch the oil coming back to the tank which doesnt take very long and every thing works fine for me. My question is this. This time the bike has set for about six months and all of the oil has drained from the tank

[@TheMightyGarage]

Thanks David. If it were one of my bikes, I would drain the oil and either re-use it or replace with new oil. If the oil tank still had a decent amount of oil in it, I’d crank the engine as you mentioned. But with it being empty, I’d drain the sump just to be safe. Best wishes

[@davidmacgregor5193]

@@TheMightyGarage Hello again Mike, Thank you for your advice, due to the oil tank being virtually empty, I'll drain the crankcase and refill the tank with fresh oil as it's not an expensive commodity to replace. Thanks again and best wishes from Calderdale, I'm planning a trip up to the Yorkshire Dales National Park and The Lake District next month.

[@TheMightyGarage]

That sounds great David. Good luck with your bike and have a terrific ride in the beautiful countryside. Best wishes, Mike

[@davidmacgregor5193]

@@TheMightyGarage Thank you Mike, I also like riding through the Peak District as it has beautiful twisty roads and magnificent scenery, especially the Hope Valley, I normally get there by riding through Huddersfield and Holmfirth.

[@gpo6581]

I have a Mk3 which sumps. It has a anti-sump unit in the timing cover. What does AMR do in this case?

[@swooshdave]

I’m not sure they can do anything. How old is the seal on the oil pump? They may be able to do the OPRV mod.

[@johnb5519]

A much more positive way to mount that pesky little O-ring seal, that bit you a while back.

[@swooshdave]

In the end it was not being aware that the MkIII timing cover required a MkIII oil pump (or a modified earlier pump) that was my downfall. It’s not well documented as it seems not many people know about it. I learned the hard way.

[@johnb5519]

@@swooshdave Yeah, we all go through it, one way or another.