Mixing XLR and RCA cables

What's Paul's advice when it comes to mixing balanced XLR cables and RCA cables in the same system?

[@istefk]

. with that modular in the background... you've really got my attention now....

[@Nephilim-81]

Paul. You’ve been kicking ass in the world of audio longer than I’ve been alive. (40 years). ;)

[@PBlaik]

Love the videos... Although I was a live audio engineer for quite some time, your explanations, mixed in with story telling are not only informative for most, they're entertaining :)

[@VintageVic93]

A synthesizer like that would be my dream!!!😍

[@johnwalker4221]

I had been wondering the same thing. Thanks!

[@numusique]

Thank you Paul👍🏻

[@RasheedKhan-he6xx]

Hey Michael, I have an even older CD player. It plays fantastic and while it doesn't have balanced outputs it does have digital, both optical (toslink) and coaxial. Your 15 year old Sony is probably the same. Not much has changed in CD players in all that time except the DAC and even a $100 DAC today will probably run circles around your old internal DAC. So I'm suggesting you take the digital signal from your Sony via optical or coax to a new external DAC. Spend more than $100 for a good one with balanced outputs and then connect that DAC to your pre or integrated amp. Or you could choose a new amp that has a high quality inbuilt DAC and you won't need to worry about XLRs at all. Just connect via digital. But remember you'll have the same problem in a few years when the amplifier is still fine but the DAC inside it is obsolete. Anyway, I think either of these will help you continue to enjoy your Sony for many more years and not worry about it not having XLR.

[@emiel333]

The synthesizers surrounding you = ❤

[@Tibbon]

Damn, I knew you had good taste- but that modular is perfect

[@sonicplayroompiano4302]

Nice synths!

[@rapfreak7797]

Nice modular!

[@alexroot1980]

Dear Paul. I wish I had a dad like you. You always cheer me up by your sweet attitude and "warm" voice. Do you have tubes in your vocal chords? 😁😂❤️

[@reeserichardson]

Man that's some holy grail RA Moog stuff right there.... wooooah

[@perge_music]

RCA to XLR is no worse (or better) than RCA to RCA, you'd only use XLR to RCA if you had no other choice. That old modular is far more interesting than some cables though :)

[@graxjpg]

Certainly you’re right! Some of the synth is old, certainly the keyboard looks old. But much of it is new analog stuff from behringer actually! It sounds incredible and is much more reliable than 50 year old components

[@stevemiller9480]

Just short the minus and ground pins together on the XLR if you want to connect to the RCA plug, keep the cable length as short as possible, use good shielded wire.

[@walterpen371]

For a true balanced system XLR for Input / Output connections is best. Also there is balanced/ stereo 3 conductor 1/4 inch phono plug as well. A configuration of both XLR and balanced phono should work as well.

[@randomtube8226]

Never understood why they make adapters. For making one end XLR and the other end RCA. Expecting to achieve the same results. XLR to XLR fully balanced is the way to go. I wasn't a believer at first. Until I tried it for myself. My noise floor lowered quite a bit in my system. Definitely recommend fully balanced equipment if you can!

[@Skye_the_toller]

Because you may have a good XLR cable … but the new equipment you bought is coax and RCA only! It could fun the reuse a very pricey XLR with an adaptor :😢

[@salvadorrodenas3071]

Balanced or not, it depends of the internal nature of the gear and the distance to cover. Just try which sounds better. Obviously, true balanced all way through is the best.

[@andydelle4509]

Best advice on the thread!

[@randallnielson2011]

Paul, i’m loving your videos, which i just found on YT. Would you consider adding one new video to the Bal vs Unbal series? How about a video on using a -10dBv consumer device (like a Tascam 234 tape multitrack recorder) with your typical +4dBu pro equipment (like my SSL Big Six console/interface)? And specifically, how best to run from the -10dBv device and into the +4dBu device … and vice versa? I am considering buying numerous Radial Engineering J-Iso boxes to handle this, but i’d love to know if there would be an easier/better/cheaper DIy way! Thanks Paul

[@SunnySkiesInAZ]

Great video! I have a 35’ run to a subwoofer. Does connecting two xlr cables together compromise the integrity?

[@womenhavesaxwithadogorhors9449]

Interesting. 👍

[@cubinn149]

I own a sony es player great sound

[@danevertt3210]

I have a ton of RCA cables, even large snake types. I bought some RCA to guitar cable adapters……but I haven’t used them yet. Do you think they will work alright??

[@AnalogueGround]

There is more to it than that. A typical balanced line level audio signal is hotter than the signal on an unbalanced line level audio signal. These two conventions are commonly known as 'pro' and 'consumer'. Ironically, the more sensitive high impedance input of an unbalanced system is more prone to noise pickup than the less sensitive low impedance balanced input so you win twice in a way! The separates market mainly use unbalanced RCA -10dB to maximise compatibility between different manufacturers products as fewer companies use balanced XLR +4dB connections. I'm amazed that the high end consumer audio market hasn't fully embraced the signal connectivity of the pro audio market which has used balanced inputs and outputs for over 70 years. Trying to 'improve' an unbalanced input or output by using overpriced cables is just not the answer.

[@bootsarmstrong8421]

Paul, once again, you didn't really answer the question. My system is all unbalanced. There is no noise or hum. I recently added an eq which has only balanced connections. At first I tried a XLR to RCA cable which kinda work but after awhile a swoshing noise would come out of the right channel. I checked around and learned I needed a DI box. I bought a couple (Radial) -10 to +4 and the second +4 to -10. Both passive DI boxes. Everything works together great. My system is even quiter now even though I am using several signal processors in the chain. I'm a puzzled though because ten years ago I used to play music at church for the Christmas party. I used my unbalanced stereo gear (including signal processors) and hooked it up to an XLR input (with XLR to rca cable) so the music could play through the ceiling speakers. There was no noise, hum, distortion, only clear music. Don't understand why it worked at church but not at home.

[@marsupialmicron]

Wow so you are into modular synths!? great!

[@imark7777777]

On the live sound side of things going from unbalanced to balanced you sort of get half of the effect as you will get some signal rejection that way although your sound level will be lower than what the XLR input will expect. If the cable is wired properly the RCA tip will be going to the hot and RCA shield will be going to the cold leaving the XLR Shield either disconnected at the XLR connector or acting as a shield across the length of the cable and floating at the RCA end. I've actually had Fairly good results with this, well I am not listening at Golden Ears level I am very sensitive to signal noise and interference. There are also devices that would balance the signal that could be put really close to the source to eliminate as much as possible the unbalanced cabling. But I say bye a device that is capable of future expansion and has both inputs that way you can try it both ways I haven't if you upgrade later you have the capability. Going the opposite way you get some benefit but not nearly as much as the input of an unbalanced device would not be able to take advantage of any of that. Going from balanced to unbalanced equipment with a balanced XLR to balanced TRS cable going into a balance Jack will give you a bounced signal, going into an unbalanced Jack will give you some immunity depending on whether that Jack Floats or links the R to S when a Jack is inserted. Now this is a little bit different for RCA connectors as you don't get that benefit have the ability of joining the shield and cold so you generally just want to keep it short and away from things and if you have to cross power cables do it at 90 degree angles.

[@Vazhaspa]

If the output is RCA, one can uses a simple converter to XLR connection that can then be connected to your amp/ active speakers via XLR cables ...

[@5skov]

RCA is unbalanced

[@TheMirolab]

@@5skov Yes the connnection would unbalanced, but the signal into the balanced input will work just fine.... It would be functionally the same as any unbalanced connection.

[@5skov]

@@TheMirolab Keep wires short then

[@imark7777777]

And if you do your conversion at the RCA connector and use the 2 core and shield cable back to the XLR connector you will get at least some noise reduction benefits.

[@FOH3663]

Intermittent faster here; one big evening meal, that's it. Coffee, and water throughout the day. ... beginning about 7p, I enjoy two Double IPAs (Rip Cord, Daredevil Brewing) before I eat, eat a big meal w/dessert. If you're an IPA fan, you gotta try Daredevil's RipCord, superb imo. Never snack ... as once you do you need to eat, and eat a lot soon thereafter. I'm about 3yrs into this and lighter than I've been in decades. Finally right around 200lbs. All my 2x dress shirts don't fit properly.

[@ericlobdell6484]

I came here looking for justification to update my network streamer for a new one that has balanced outputs...and I got it!

[@2119rocky]

Hi I really appreciate the video, I have a question I just bought a DJ controller that came out 10 years ago so it has only RCA jacks on the back I want to connect them to my JBL powered speakers which only has XLR cables on the back what would be the best way to go to get the best sound should I go with an adapter or should I get a RCA to XLR cable. Thanks.

[@DUSTYSORG]

how'd this work out for you? I have a Numark M2 - 2 channel mixer (RCA) I need to connect to my EV ZLX Powered Speakers (XLR)

[@Chrisicola]

I'm having an issue with 60 mhz hum while using RCA to 1/4 plug adapter from receiver to amp. Hoping a line conditioner solves this issue.

[@tongleongsim9202]

Hi Paul, I've learnt that there are equipments with truly balance circuitries or electronically balance or fake XLR circuits with just the XLR connectors. I would be very happy if you could enlighten me on these topics. Thank you very much from Singapore.

[@RasheedKhan-he6xx]

Nobody wants to talk about that unfortunately! You have to look for clues like if a product advertises "fully balanced internal circuitry". The late Ken Ishiwata does mention it in a talk - look for videos on KZbin where he's discussing the PM 10. He pointed out two things - 1. Even balanced internals most often switch to single-ended when they get to the volume control. 2. The PM10 is fully balanced internally and even can send a balanced signal to the speakers - over unbalanced cables! Now obviously the only reason he mentions any of this it to get people to buy the PM10. Secondly, I really wonder if it makes that much difference whether the internal wiring is balanced or not. We're talking about very small distances, a couple of inches maybe.

[@djstevev6793]

An original Moog synthesizer! Now you're just showing off!....Cool as heck to see though!

[@ssmith2019]

When are you gonna do a vidy on that synth rack on the wall behind you ?

[@BIGBASSSAMA_4]

Rca to xlr converter works against any humming or hissing?

[@finscreenname]

Been on the "fast diet" my whole adult life. Dinner is only the real meal. Little bit of munching during the day. Started because breakfast would give me wicked heartburn as a flooring installer and as a peice worker if you skip lunch you go home sooner. I'm at a point now that if it's not somthing interesting to eat I would take it in a pill form just so I could do something else while I would be eating.

[@thevintagehifiambassador8524]

it's all about racing, on a boat every gram loses speed :-) Colin Chapman philosophy

[@LuxAudio389]

How do some Burmester Preamps with RCA inputs to a Balanced XLR output work? And why do they offer a balanced output?

[@TheMirolab]

Many preamps do this. They have a mix of balanced and unbalanced inputs, and have a balanced output. A balanced connection from preamp to amp is highly desirable, especially if you have a longer cable run to an amp that's located near the speakers. This is not a big deal. Most preamps do not have a fully-balanced (ie. dual-differential) circuit topology. That's very rare and complicated. The preamp circuitry is usually unbalanced, but feeds a balanced final output stage, or a transformer.

[@AhmedAddas]

Is rca more deep,warm and rich over xlr?

[@ThinkingBetter]

I like my analog cables to be as short as possible and when they are short, the difference becomes minimal.

[@graxjpg]

Indeed, I use unbalanced all over the studio because the cables aren’t longer than 5 feet usually.

[@ThinkingBetter]

@@graxjpg Yes, for a few feet, the difference is below the dynamic range of human perception.

[@G-entleManAndScholar]

Ironically, guy was also a trucker. I came for Susvara driving, whilst driving. 🚛 💨 🎶

[@AhmedAddas]

Can i use 3 coax cable for xlr conector??

[@Bassotronics]

I’m using xlr cables from my microphone to my preamp and for some reason, there is still slight a.c. hum in the background. 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@imark7777777]

Could be the quality of the cable try a different one, or it could be that one of the connections was broken and the reason I like non molded connectors for inspection time to do a continuity test. If that doesn't solve it, it could be a possibility of internal cable damage but a continuity test between the different pins should rule that out. Try moving your XLR cables away from other wires to see if that helps. There is a video I might add the link if I remember of somebody testing various price and quality of cable and found unless you get the cheap ones the difference was minimal but if you got a cheap one it was regrettable. The other option is you wouldn't happen to be underneath a radio transmitter would you?

[@Bassotronics]

imark7777777 The mic xlr cable is going directly into the preamp. Then the preamp into the Focusrite USB box and then directly to the computer. Nothing else is connected to the AC other than the preamp. I’m also far away from any radio transmitters. Probably it’s the cable. I’ll get another one and see if it fixes the problem. Thanks for your valid input.

[@andydelle4509]

Microphones are often difficult because of the low signal levels, long cable distances, and very high gain in the preamp. Sometimes you have to cut pin 1 (the shield) at the preamp end XLR. This will often break a ground loop if the microphone is somehow physically grounded like with a metal mount tied to electrical ground through a desk.

[@imark7777777]

@@Bassotronics hmmm I think this article it might be helpful www.ranecommercial.com/legacy/note110.html I'm assuming everything is plugged in the same power strip. if they were on different outlets with a bad ground between them that could introduce noise, I don't think that's the case here. Yeah I'm thinking it might be the cable, was it something off of Amazon? Get some thing from a reputable seller and not necessarily bargain quality. Maybe get something in the $20-$30 range and if you can with Neutrix connectors ( generally that means they put some effort into the cable and didn't just go with cheap Chinese knock off connectors and cable.) that you can have as a reference for testing. I'm really liking these at the moment, they were a good price and have colors for a recent order for a podcast studio last year. www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/845514-REG/Kopul_m4010_Kopul_Studio_Elite_4000.html of Course I am one to speak, I picked up a three pack of Samson cables for like $25, and salvaged many of my cables from the trash. A good cable well taken care of will last, no knots and kinks and gentle wrapping (preferably over under).

[@H-77]

Unfortunately balanced to unbalanced conversion is a bit of a minefield of grounding and phase issues, mostly because there are several different ways to do a balanced / differential (and they are not the same) output, and they all need to be treated differently. Going from an RCA output to an XLR input is usually not an issue (but you may have a ground loop issue on some equipment). Going the other way is a bit more complicated. If it's a transformer output, no problem. Tie pin 1 and pin 3 together as ground, then use pin 2 as your hot. If it has a floating differential output, you can theoretically do the same thing without issue. There are other balanced outputs where you CANNOT ground pin 3, since it is effectively grounding the output of an op-amp through a 47R resistor. This can cause lots of problems, though if the equipment is well-designed it shouldn't blow it up. There are also balanced (but not differential outputs). To make everything more fun, XLR wiring hasn't always been standardized (and it still isn't 100% standardized). Some equipment used pin 3 hot, some used pin 2 hot. These days, it's almost all pin-2 hot, but in the early 1990s that wasn't the case.

[@andydelle4509]

Well stated! It's not that simple and many Audiophile RCA to XLR cables get it wrong. PIN 3 hot was the quasi standard for broadcast audio equipment. Pin 2 hot was the recording studio and stage industry standard. In the mid 1980s when we got stereo broadcast television, many TV stations started using recording studio processing gear such as Dolby A systems on their VTRs since they finally had to worry about audio quality. That flipped the standard to PIN 2 hot across both industries.

[@H-77]

​@@andydelle4509 It's not even as simple as broadcast vs. studio. Back in the early 1990s, there was a lot of British studio equipment that was pin-3 hot. Active monitors, mixing consoles, power amps, you name it. It was generally a horrific sea of phase issues. To make matters worse, a lot of manufacturers really hadn't figured out how to do an input circuit properly, and a lot of them had grounding issues that made it worse. As an example, I have a pair of Quested Q108s. Fantastic sounding active monitors, but unless you get everything just right, the buzz and hum will drive you insane. Eventually I threw up my arms and designed a preamp with some Jensen JT-11-DMCF output transformers, and that pretty much nixed the problem.

[@andydelle4509]

@@H-77 Well the British always do everything backwards! Like driving on the WRONG side of the road. - Sorry, just kidding but I couldn't resist.

[@masterzippo121]

my DAC has both XLR and RCA outputs but my amp only has RCA, I bought an XLR to RCA cable and it sounds worse than RCA to RCA / both cables are of similar quality /. is there any explanation for such a difference . thank you Paul . Best Regards Suavic

[@solarfall2728]

I see possibly 1 of 2 issues here. First, your dac may not be balanced and when you use the xlr connector, the signal is being run through some low grade parts for the xlr option. Or, and more likely, your dac is balanced and you have a configuration issue. Balanced and SE operation are not compatible, so if you want to mix components, something has to be done. Check the manual on your dac. With most balanced components, they give you a way to switch to SE operation. They usually give you an external switch somewhere, an internal dip switch, or a small jumper that you need to insert into the xlr jack. You'll need to do one of the above before its OK to use the xlr jack. That said, regardless of what's going on, there's absolutely no benefit to using the xlr output on your dac. Only 2 of the 3 pins will be used, so its identical to an rca cable.

[@masterzippo121]

@@solarfall2728 thank you. I use RCA to RCA and it's fine. the DAC is TEAC UD-H01 old and good enough for me for now :) best rgards suavic

[@n1vad_]

What about a rca output to a xlr input (using dj gear to moniter speakers)

[@benpit2762]

Just to clarify can we mix RCAs and XLRs? E.g. CD Player > RCA Turntable > RCA Streamer > XLR Pair of Monoblocks > XLR Thanks!

[@Evertb1]

Yes you can. Just take care that your RCA cabling is not of el cheapo quality (not needed to go over the top though) and make sure that your cables are as short as possible and are routed away from big power supplies etc.

[@benpit2762]

Awesome thanks!

[@TheSupremeSkill]

Is balanced signal ever possible via 3,5 mm jack from DAC to amplifier? I have an external Sound Blaster DAC with only a combined 3,5 mm/mini-toslink output. I assume it's best to connect to the amp via 3,5 mm -> 2x RCA right? Is there any benefit using 3,5 mm -> 2x XLR cable? The amp accepts balanced signal.

[@imark7777777]

Yes and no. Most likely not. TRS 3.5 millimeter is usually wired up for Left Right ground in pretty much every device there are some mono versions. However there does exist some devices that will give you left and right on 3.5 mm as a balanced output but then you're looking at two jacks labeled left and right. As the configuration changes to TRS tip ring sleeve hot cold Shield. If it's a consumer device and then most likely. I go from 3.5 mm to RCA just fine, occasionally I'll run into power supply issues from the computer being noisy and even rarer ground loops caused by ground differential between equipment.

[@TheSupremeSkill]

@@imark7777777 Thanks for the info! I found figuring this out via Google surprisingly difficult. If you get lots of extra noises because of your PC, just get a cheap external DAC. DAC affects sound quality the least in "a chain", so you don't need to invest that much into it if you don't wish so. I have a Sound Blaster Z myself, but I still later bought Sound Blaster G6 rather cheap, which I will soon use as a DAC. I don't want any interference from the PC, which you get from almost any PC.

[@imark7777777]

@@TheSupremeSkill oh yes computer noise. I usually run across this with laptops plugging in to sound systems, where they're great until you plug the power cord in but if you don't plug the power cord and they die during your presentation. There's also just generally the noisy output of the cheap built-in audio components, my last new computer this drove me nuts because it had a slight hiss on the audio signal which wouldn't be so bad but then it would shut off the audio hardware after a few seconds of no playback so it was really obvious. The quality of the internal sound card is key and it's great that we have external as an available option. Glad you got it sorted, I like the comment with the thought that maybe somebody else will run a crossed it and find it useful if the original poster didn't. Although I missed the toss link output, that could also be used to get a clean digital signal out and then convert. It's great to have options.

[@TheSupremeSkill]

@@imark7777777 Definitely use Toslink when possible. I don't know if any laptops have Toslink, but some if not many have the combined 3,5 mm/Toslink. There should always be a separate Toslink connection in laptops, it's the best invention ever.

[@imark7777777]

@@TheSupremeSkill most Apple stuff for a good while on their laptop and desktop side included the combo port I have yet to see a Windows system with it I think but I know they’re out there. I finally got myself a cable a few years back and started playing with it it’s kind of fun disables the volume control but I know I’m getting a direct signal out. Then a couple years ago I acquired a reference monitor from a TV station with BNC so I had to get myself another adapter to go optical to coax.

[@phomchick]

Holy Cow!!! A Moog Synthesizer.

[@brianeardley1329]

Don't know if it is a Moog. Maybe a MOTM or an old Polyfusion. So what is it Paul?

[@ozorhankaya]

Sony ES has both RCA & Balanced out and they are great greeat sounding equipment..

[@salvadorrodenas3071]

I love Sony audio from nineties

[@Gez492]

Was going to say the very same thing. Many higher end Sony CD Players have fully balanced outputs come now Paul you should know that.

[@ESL-Plus]

An XLR output doesn't always mean it is truly balanced. Not saying it is not the case on the Sony CD. Just saying be careful with assuming that any XLR means balanced by default because it is not always the case. On top of that there are different ways to implement balanced. Again be careful.

[@salvadorrodenas3071]

@@ESL-Plus for instance, the Sony CDP-X779ES and CDP-X707ES have two independent paths from the differential output of the D/A chips to the outputs. Really, something very few did then and do now. This way, whatever format the user does, no degradation of sound as a results. If balanced is chosen, all the advantages of that type of circuit are obtained. Better than transformer coupling as in the CDP-X7ESD or DAS-R1a. Even the iconic D/A DAS-R1 converter used only single ended outputs. Spectral CD player use exclusively cinch connectors. The extraordinary Sony Preamp TA-ER1 which is shown in my avatar converted s/e inputs to balanced. All inputs, in balanced mode treated by an input buffer were converted to S/E prior to enter the analog potentiometer pot and again turned again to balanced by another buffer output. This apparently complicated scheme didn't seem to affect the sound. Multiple ways to arrive to the same target. How a particular circuit is implemented is much more important that its architecture.

[@Gez492]

@@ESL-Plus agreed Jos, its true of many so called High end components too. I have owned a few higher end Sony ES CD players including X77ES and SCD-1 both are balanced the latter I still own and use often. I bought it 2nd hand after reading a stereophile review. It is a fantastic sounding device with brick Sh@t house build quality and will see off many so called Esoteric and hugely expensive CD players even today. I'd wager some of its direct stream technology was emulated in PS Audio gear. I wonder these days should I buy another CD player is it worth getting a decent 1trsnsport with an I2S digital out and get a DAC like the Denafrips Pontus or Venus. Dacs are ever changing and improving but CD transports are pretty mature tech but for now I get huge enjoyment from my vintage hi end Sony balanced out. Cheers Gerald 🍻

[@lennartsmith1902]

Why didnt yuo have balanced cables in your new phonostage?

[@hugobloemers4425]

Mixing XLR with RCA on one cable can still eliminate ground loops if that is the root cause of the hum. Tough it is true that the common mode rejection will be lost.

[@5skov]

RCA is not balanced

[@kaiulrich6185]

And if you use unbalanced cables make sure to keep them as short as possible because as always length matters 😎

[@ThinkingBetter]

Shorter is better (for audio cables).

[@Skye_the_toller]

Can I think that, for an equivalent result, an XLR cable may cost less than an RCA cable for the same task?

[@tee-jaythestereo-bargainph2120]

His hiend sony es most likely has the balanced outputs (xlr) to run to his pre/integrated/reciever/amp !!

[@alexYT87462]

How about.... xlr cable connecting dac and preamp....rca connecting preamp and power amp (bcos it has no xlr input)? Or is it better to use rca end to end? Isnt that the real mix and match question? Anyone know?

[@MarkJones-re3po]

My problem is that my preamp hasn't got balanced out. So my streamer goes to my preamp via balanced, but then the preamp goes to the power amp via rca.

[@stevemiller9480]

That's not really a problem if it's wired correctly.

[@PracticalGangu]

Can't we ground the outer shield of XLR cable and use the inner 2 plus and minus as input of RCA pin

[@OZ7ADZ]

You can connect a XLR output to a RCA input by using the hot(+) and GND. Cold(-) must be open (no connected)

[@PracticalGangu]

@@OZ7ADZ Thank you for the reply... It's my lucky day to get a tip from you, " A great Person"🙏

[@salvadorrodenas3071]

@@PracticalGangu if you connect the + and the - together, the least bad that can happen is that you hear almost nothing. Those cancelling to each other.

[@imark7777777]

I'm assuming you mean connect positive to RCA tip and negative to RCA Shield and then float the XLR shield down the cable, that will give you some noise rejection if your input is balanced. all bets are off going the opposite way.

[@andydelle4509]

Yes and that is one of the recommended practices when you don't have a converter box. Connect the balanced minus to the RCA shield and the balanced hot to the RCA center pin. Float the cable shield but only at the RCA end. You might pickup a db or two of additional noise reduction but it's highly dependent on the system as a whole including the environment which includes AC power grounding. This was a common with analog broadcast video equipment. Standard analog video is unbalanced. But ever since we went from 60hz to 59.94hz vertical rate for color TV, rolling 60hz hum bars became an issue, PITA to be blunt. So manufactures started using true differential input stages with the insulated BNC connector shield connected to the diff amp minus input and not grounded at the destination device. While not as good as a true balanced system, it did provide significant 60hz hum rejection.

[@ChickenPermissionOG]

what about rca to line?

[@Cubik303]

Play us a tune on that Moog synthesizer!

[@graxjpg]

Most of those modules are actually made by behringer (:

[@graxjpg]

The Rhodes and arp next to it probably sound incredible as well!

[@Cubik303]

@@graxjpg Yea, I didn't want to open that can of worms! I figured "Moog Synthesizer" would be general enough given the audience of the video. Maybe for the next video we can get Paul in front a giant wall of Eurorack....

[@graxjpg]

@@Cubik303 it’s not controversial that behringer makes incredible analog synthesizers, octave records also has a wall of 8 of their Model D clones! Truly luxurious despite the affordability. SMD and the way they do things seems to be the future of analog.

[@zaoria123]

1:45 for the answer

[@greganderson5972]

Is that a classic Moog rig, or a clone? Impressive either way.

[@Paulmcgowanpsaudio]

Classic Moog rig. A genuine original.

[@coppercabjr4865]

but what about speaker cables couse they arent xlr or balanced for that sake its only copper or gold and so on what if the humm get to that cable

[@RasheedKhan-he6xx]

That's why people choose shielded cables. I don't go in for balanced. Not because I think they're bad but because I think they are unnecessary. My equipment is modest and my hearing is mediocre. All I do is keep my cables as short as possible - like my interconnects are 10 inches only - and I try not to run my signal wires near power cables. This goes for speaker cables too. Keep em short (Ie don't have 30 ft cables for a speaker 10 ft away) and get some wire with good shielding.

[@LittleTinyKittens]

But what about the other way?? You mentioned balanced down to RCA but what about the other way… RCA from a preamp into a balanced on the power amp?

[@avader5]

After dealing with spurious ground hum, I eventually had to go with balanced XLR cables.

[@tompocock3345]

A balanced cable will not remove ground noise

[@zerotoxico]

I would say go xlr all the way ore rca all the way try not to miks and match rca/xlr, both i belive can sound great if its good sounding cabels and good equipment and preferbly go with one brand on all your cabels i use Audio Quest speakercabel, subwoofer, powercabel, xlr, and usb because i think it sounds great :p

[@graxjpg]

RCA as a corporation did some wacky things to the broadcasting/music world didn’t they?

[@johnsweda2999]

Not really balanced not necessarily, balance can have a loss in sound quality depends on the construction of the equipment and if it's truly balanced or pseudo balanced and RCA cable can be great better in most circumstances. there's a big mistake people use the wrong type of cable and use 75 ohm should never be used for analogue signals, should be between 30 and 65 ohms and lxr cable is usually 50 ohms, specially for turntable use should be 30 / 50ohms, quality coaxial cable is fine for RCA especially on short runs that most people will have under 45ft more important is the type of construction of cable lxr is usually professional grade.

[@andydelle4509]

But unless your are the old analog telephone company, the characteristic impedance of audio cable is largely irrelevant. Yes standard Belden 8451 series is 60 ohms. But for analog audio it really doesn't matter for practical distances. 75ohm cable is fine for RCA cables except for the extra expense and the potential stiffness that can damage PC board mounted RCA connectors.

[@H-77]

Over short runs at low frequency (and 20 kHz is definitely low frequency) the characteristic impedance doesn't matter. Furthermore, the cable used for balanced interconnects (often with XLR connectors, but not always) is definitely not always 50 ohms. Incidentally, twisted quads often are around 50 ohms, but not all balanced audio cable is a twisted quad. Take a few minutes and read up on transmission lines- AoE does a very good job of writing it up in reasonably understandable terms. At audio frequencies, it isn't a concern unless the cables are several km long.

[@soundwave7678]

Rca into a small mixer then xlr from mixer to speakers

[@TheDanGore]

Only a good man owns a moog modular.

[@subliminalvibes]

Surely his Sony CD player has digital out?

[@bootsarmstrong8421]

@ subliminalvibes. It probably does. I have a Sony ES CD recorder with coax, optical outs but they're still unbalanced.

[@QoraxAudio]

But I still wonder why most phono preamps don't have balanced inputs, while phono cartridges provide a balanced output. Phono preamps with balanced inputs are very rare...

[@markanderson350]

damn, you got me thinking. Most hum comes from phono inputs too. You would need to rewire the turntable, use low capacitance balanced wire and redesign the preamp.. The xlr is too big and expensive I guess.

[@QoraxAudio]

@@markanderson350 No need to rewire, if it has the regular rca connectors and a ground wire, you just need two XLR connectors. Connect the ground wire to pin1 of both XLR. The positive (the pin in the center of the RCA) to pin2 of the XLR and the outer shield of the RCA to pin3 of the XLR (this is the same for both right and left). There are exceptions though, like Rega turntables have ground connected to the shield of the left RCA connector, so those do have to be rewired.

[@markanderson350]

So why don't we have balanced guitar outputs. You could just change to a 1/4 stereo connector and rewire pickup and have balanced preamps in guitar amps?

[@QoraxAudio]

@@markanderson350 I don't know how guitar pickups work, so I can't say anything definitive about that.

[@markanderson350]

Well let's say it's not much different than a microphone. A cheap consumer Mike has a 1/4 inch and the better ones have XLR and all musicians use XLR for mikes. I have been around consumer in my younger years fixing stereos tape decks etc at home. Later got involved in some pro equipment in bars hooking up jukeboxes etc. In a good commercial hookup they use 70 volt speakers and mono sound. Now I own a theater we have bands at and they only talk XLR and no nothing of 70 volt and avoid all that RCA unbalanced like the plague. I floated around many technologies over the years.

[@imad1996]

5 minuts video, 2 reading the question and than saying balanced is he way to go as they reject hum. the anwer is yes you can mix cables but make sure to use same cable for left and right channels. for short cables below 10 feet, unbalanced might sound batter as the equipment does not the balanced circuit to cancel the noise.

[@paulwibb.8944]

Just set your system up properly, with decent cable management,, and you'll never get any interference from any other cables,, use your common sense,, and stop listening to people who want to sell you stuff.

[@kc9scott]

A few months ago, I was digitizing some LPs. I ran into a problem when I had accidentally placed a signal cable (unbalanced, line-level) next to the “brick” power supply (transformer) of my mixer. Fortunately I noticed the hum, figured out the cause, and just took care to no longer put the cable in that position. I had to redo 8 or 10 already-digitized LPs as a result of this. In the case of a playback-only system, if you notice this kind of problem, just fix the cable routing (or upgrade to balanced cables), no harm done. If you don’t notice any problem, there’s no need to buy further stuff.

[@williampearson4968]

If XLR cables the best, why are manufacturers still putting in RCA connections on Amps, Preamps, Dacs, SACD/CD players, etc? Stands to reason that Audiophile equipment should only have XLR inputs and outlets to obtain best performance? Then why degrade the sound by using with older RCA technology? In the future, will XLR cables be the standard in the industry and RCA be phased out?

[@EXTREMEROFLNESS73]

Xlr doesn't sound any better than rca its just better at eliminating outside interference and can be used for long runs. There isn't really any benefit to using xlr unless if you are running the cable around a shitload of other electronics or have to go far. The sound quality itself is identical.

[@ESL-Plus]

Money

[@paulwibb.8944]

@@EXTREMEROFLNESS73 exactly,, don't know why anyone would say any different,, BS audio,,, 😂

[@TheSupremeSkill]

One obvious reason is that to design a small DAC or amp, big XLR connectors and additional components required take space. Also there is no meaningful difference in sound if RCA cable is not under interference. Otherwise yes, XLR is the way to go, but mini XLR should be the standard for home audio in my opinion.

[@H-77]

Go look up the price of a Neutrik XLR connector. That should give some indication. They're also pretty big, and that takes up chassis space. RCA should have been phased out decades ago. Any audio connector that makes the hot connection before the ground is a pretty poor design. Furthermore, the consistency of RCA connectors is awful. Some don't fit tightly at all, others have a death grip. I've had to replace more than a few RCA connectors that were ripped off the back of equipment. Usually the really expensive "audiophile" cables are the worst in this regard.

[@kirkcunningham6146]

I went from single ended to balanced and noticed a huge difference in sound quality. Bass is deeper.

[@laurentzduba1298]

Some CD / DVD players and preamps from 1996 onwards provides a louder output - 3 volts or more - if you use the balanced XLR outputs but only gives 1 to 2 volt peak-to-peak output when you use the plain- vanilla RCA unbalanced outputs.

[@kirkcunningham6146]

@@laurentzduba1298 all of my gear is within 5 years old. So your explanation does not apply to me...my amps have a high gain with balanced connections. I'm not talking about loudness. I'm talking about sound quality.

[@andydelle4509]

Was this improvement after you were using an XLR to RCA adapter cable? This is entirely possible and discussed above. If either device used a true transformer on the balanced side and the minus side was not tied to ground on the unbalanced side, the transformer then looks like a small coupling capacitor or rather a high pass filter. The result is only upper mid and high frequencies will pass through it. Now if the balanced source is an electronic output, then grounding the minus side can even cause damage as you are shorting out one of the OPAMPS. So in that case the minus side must be floating. Not easy it it! Go all balanced, go all unbalanced, or use a proper conversion box for the best performance.

[@paulwibb.8944]

Anyone being sold the myth that ballenced cables sound better than Rca cables, need to wake up,, the fact that ballenced cables are used in a professional environment,, does NOT mean they sound better. Different cables are built differently for different environments, and that's it... Ballenced cables making the cross over from the pro world, into home hi-fi is......... Yep,, a money spinner 🤑,,,, nothing wrong with that I know,, Just as long as you recognize it.

[@ChiefExecutiveOrbiter]

Forget the cables, what's up with those modular synths!?!

[@graxjpg]

Behringers new moog clones and some old moog, a luxurious setup indeed

[@ChiefExecutiveOrbiter]

@@graxjpg if these old guys would actually listen to some new Aphex Twin recordings on there ridiculous setups, they'd be blown away.

[@graxjpg]

@@ChiefExecutiveOrbiter yeah dude, my favorite kind of electronic music personally is the psychedelic progressive stuff from the 70s. Like Tim Blake’s crystal machine or klaus schulze timewind. I have a soft spot in my heart for that stuff, but there’s plenty of newer kinds of electronic music I enjoy. Certainly others that sound great!

[@paulwibb.8944]

Xlr cables have NO benefits over Rca cables in a typical home system,, don't be fooled,, Yes I've tried em,,!!

[@5skov]

you can't go with balanced cables if you'r I/O is unbalanced. Right?

[@solarfall2728]

@@5skov Yes and no. If your components are unbalanced, that's correct. However, if you have an unusually long run, where an unbalanced signal degrade, you can use what's called a direct box. They convert balanced and unbalanced signals. You put one by each component, and it will convert the signal to balanced. Most of the time, these devices are used for pro audio, but there's no reason you can't use one in a home system if you have the need. You wouldn't use it to get better sound, it would stop the signal from degrading over a long run.

[@5skov]

@@solarfall2728 I play bass guitar and I know what a DI box is, this was an answer or question for Paul Wibb, sorry. Now I'm confused

[@5skov]

but let's agree, that if one end of your signal is unbalanced, then the whole signal is unbalanced

[@5skov]

like it has to be xlr to xlr