English IPA | Short & Shoddy

I’m brewing one of my favorite styles - English IPA - Short and Shoddy style. 30 minute mash, 30 minute boil. Which, should have been fine. But, well, this didn’t go quite to plan. What went wrong? Let's find out.
RECIPE: share.brewfath...
EQUIPMENT USED
Clawhammer Supply 240v eBIAB System: www.clawhammer...
Spike Brewing FLEX+: spikebrewing.c...
SUPPORT BRÜLOSOPHY
Patreon: / brulosophy
Affiliate links: brulosophy.com...
CONTACT: [e-mail]

[@TheBrulosophyShow]

Thanks for all the troubleshooting in the comments! A few things I didn't mention in the video: - I used reverse osmosis water from a grocery store refill station. That water did sit in a blue plastic jug for about 4 weeks before using it. - A few weeks after kegging I transferred the beer that tasters received to a second keg (I didn't want to lug a full keg around). The keg was purged and the transfer was pressurized but maybe an opportunity for oxygen exposure Anyway, we share both our successes and failures here. Looking forward to revisiting this. Thanks for watching!

[@mrow7598]

"That water did sit in a blue plastic jug for about 4 weeks before using it" How old is the Jug? The older it gets they more chemicals leach out of the plastic. I've also had Hoses go bad after awhile. Also the water filters from the store may have been bad causing the off flavor. Who knows how often they swap them out.

[@Mikkogram]

​@@mrow7598 right. I feel like water dispenser water tastes chemically after a while. "Food save containers" my ass

[@mrow7598]

@@Mikkogram water bottles have a shelf life, not because the water goes bad, the plastic starts to go bad leaching chemicals into the water.

[@avocet89]

If the RO water had been sitting for that length of time, would that leave it susceptible to bacteria/infection, given the chlorine is stripped out of it.

[@poisonpotato1]

Also raleigh switches from chloramine to chlorine during march / april. Which results in higher chlorine concentrations than usual

[@Alkdarf]

I've had a similar off/chemical/weird experience with a beer or two in the past and what I determined for those instances were dirty valves. While I'm pretty good at cleaning, my equipment does sometime stand around for a while between brews. Valves being particularly difficult to clean and dry thoroughly on my setup seems to be a vector for off flavors. Add to that that I also use my equipment for Maple Syrup and Maple Sap and heat with gas (i.e. cooking the valves also), I figure that's where I need to improve or focus a little more. Just a thought or something to keep in mind for anyone facing similar issues. P.S. I am ABSOLUTELY NOT implying that you don't thoroughly clean your stuff, just wanted to share ;-)

[@TheBrulosophyShow]

Thanks, good advise.

[@malzundhopfen]

Appreciate you guys sharing this story, I think the most homebrewers just share their good beers with others because others might think you´re a bad brewer, BUT: I sometimes brought beers to meetings that weren't perfect at all and it was a benefit not only for me but also for the whole community, as we together found out what went wrong and everyone had a learning experience from it.

[@stevemc2626]

I’ve had that ‘ chemical’ smell and taste. It happened quite a few times and this was early on in my all grain brewing. Someone suggested chlorine. I rang my local water supply and confirmed that they use chlorine but not chloramines. I tried using metabisulfite but it still happened at times. But then I bought an under sink water filter that takes out all chlorine and it’s never happened again. Hope this helps someone.

[@TheBrulosophyShow]

This matches my experience of rebrewing this beer with RO water that was run through a filter to remove chloramine and chlorine. No more chemical smell and taste.

[@ChrisChapmanIAm]

All of my brews are "optimized" around a 30m boil and fine crush to get conversion in under 20m. I've found that some styles work better than others for the process. For example, it's worked exceedingly well for my Bell's Two Hearted Ale clone, but frustratingly on and off the mark for my Dead Guy Rogue clone.

[@FrankGenoBruno]

I have done a similar malt bill and performed a 30 min mash. From my experience I believe >10% crystal malts in a short mash just will give a bland bready flavor. I would have used target in the dry hop and also increased the amount from 30g to 60g

[@suziederkins3310]

Martin...Soccer??? Really??? 😂

[@edwinvoorhees1952]

Key words I (objectively) took out of your process/results were the pitch temp and esters detected in the beer. I agree the 30/30 process is sound, but not all parameters were optimal; not sure how twitchy around pitching temp that yeast was, I just know I’ve always been told that early fermentation is when the bulk of ester production occurs. Anyway, another great video! Cheers!😁🍻

[@JoeGraves24]

I would suggest you revisit your RO water source and see if it smells right. I’ve recently received some from a machine that was passing a noticeable amount of chlorine. Upon checking I discovered the machine hadn’t been serviced in over a month. Maybe do a TDS test on it. Shouldn’t be over 10 PPM. Also is there any chance you left a residue of a cleaner such as Bar Keepers Friend? I’ve had a brew ruined by this. Had an off flavor in it that I just couldn’t put my finger on. What was your BU/GU ratio? If it was too low it can give it an unbalanced feeling. (Could be associated with the next suggestion) Lastly I would suggest you free your hops from that basket. Since I’ve ditched my hop basket I get much better hop utilization. The trick is getting a good whirlpool without plugging the pump. The plate chiller might be a problem as well. I would suggest using a counterflow chiller next time (if you free those hops).

[@tobias11982]

I think it was an interesting video. Sometimes we just dont know what went wrong. I made an american ipa recently but it just wasnt as good as expected. Something is off with it. Maby heavy use of hops late in the boil/whirlpool + dry hop?

[@Bigz4ch87]

I've had this chemical off flavor multiple times, and found that it was usually during my winter time brews and the temperature would dip down below the suggested range by a few degrees. Just thought I'd share in case that did happen for you during fermentation. Cheers!

[@atlekaland9404]

Perhaps look into the temperature at the start of fermentation. If I recall correctly, it was above the range recommended by the yeast manufacturer. Off-flavors can originate within the fermentation temperature if not within range of the yeast .

[@Mark_Wood]

These are fantastic. Keep it up Martin!

[@TheAlchemistsBrewery]

Gosh-darned - use this expression instead. I always do 20 minutes boil and never have issues. But I do 90 minute mashes...

[@spitti3]

I've had brews like this. The only explanation I've come up with is some kind of contamination, maybe from a valve or transfer tube. The beers haven't shown any clear signs of infection, but rather strange solvent/salty/"chemical" characteristics, and a lack of hop & malt flavor.

[@poisonpotato1]

9:29 You did say that you never milled in the basket then put the basket in the water before (at 1:59 in the video). Just and idea since that variable is different than your usual process

[@Wtfdawg321]

That’s a lot of crystal malt

[@JohnL9013]

I think pitching hot was probably the problem.

[@benbinks2012]

I've read all the comments below, and I have experienced what sounds like a very similar off flavour in my last 3 brews. The only difference in my process/recipes was my water. I used corrected tap water, instead of my usual bottled water. I added a Campden tab to eliminate the Chlorine/Chloramine, but I aint sure that it works as well as expected. My tap water has too much RA that I'm sure the amount of acid I had to add was also an issue. Next brew tomorrow will be back to bottled water, and hopefully I won't get the same issues. So much beer down the toilet that it made me cry 😭

[@nrhurley117]

I watched that whole thing for an answer and got nothing.

[@freehlr]

I brewed an almost identical recipe not long ago. Fuggles, EKG, Pub yeast, etc. Turned out about the same: the usual off-flavors weren't there, but it was just an unpleasant beer. An earthy, vegetal, mucky mess with hard-to-describe-but-definitely-there off flavors. I ascribed it to two things: 1) fuggles is an awful hop. It tastes like asparagus-flavored dirt. Plus, you used 2021 fuggles for this. Maybe they were too old. 2) EKG at homebrew level is, in my experience, inconsistent. Sometimes mildly floral/fruity, as it should be, sometimes super grassy & herbal. Always risky to dry hop with EKG.

[@Mikkogram]

2021 isnt old. And when frozen hops last a loooong time. I brewed a Fuggles/Jester Ale a month ago and i cannot say that it has any asparagus dirt hints. But it had Verdant yeast

[@bradleybarth9939]

Nice video. Need to re-watch your Homebrew Challenge English IPA to see on differences. Least it wasn't as bad as your smoked beer!

[@mrow7598]

Link for anyone who wants it. kzbin.info/www/bejne/lXrbdp5phNWJpNk

[@Mikkogram]

Forgot the Camden tablet?

[@Mikkogram]

Could be that you water was treated with chlorine/chloramine

[@Marshall_Brulosophy]

When I asked Martin about the possibility of water chem being the issue, he told me he used RO water from a machine, so chlorine/chloramine likely isn't the issue. While I've never had an issue storing water in those blue plastic bottles, he did do this for a some time before brewing, but I'm doubtful that caused the issue. If it's not a contamination, I'd suspect the heavier-than-normal usage of EKG and Fuggle... but who knows?

[@Mikkogram]

@@Marshall_Brulosophy i found a info paper a colleague sent me a while back. acetaldehyde in high concentration can give a nasty paint aroma. Or maybe some residual cleaning stuff. who know? Martin has to do it again with the exact same ingredients

[@poisonpotato1]

​@@Mikkogramhe's on Raleigh's water system I believe. Each year the city adds chlorine / chloramine around March and April so the there's more than usual around that time. Depending on when he made this beer and if he filtered or not, that could be it.

[@jasonstone1046]

My thoughts too..

[@deckerhand12]

Could it be the hops?

[@marcschmid5983]

Why did you cut out the biscuit malt from your previous recipe? Mine turned out well, but went with 4% Caramalt, 4% Caramunich II and 4% Biscuit malt, as base malt I used pale ale malt - hop schedule very similar to yours. London ale 1028 produced quite a lot of sulfur, therefore I didn't dry hop... (big mistake since it turned out great!!)

[@pdubb9754]

To me, the 73 degrees Fahrenheit pitch temperature seems like it could have been a problem.Of course, Brulosophy has probably done a fair number of pitching temp experiments. I'd suggest trying one with this yeast using something along the lines of this beer

[@z99ywiec]

My experience with Target hops is not good. I get flavors of green pepper, cleaning a lawn mower deck and garbage. I'm not a fan of it.

[@BrewabitRick]

Nice to see even the experts sometimes don’t get it absolutely correct. Thanks for being so honest 👍🍻

[@mattstephen9213]

The body of the wort could have been hotter than 73. You used a temp gun to check the top of the wort. What was the temp in the wort?

[@jiaxinli8811]

I had only one experience with A09 pub. It was an ESB. Right after the beer was bottle conditioned, it tasted pretty bad similarly how you describe this batch. Not malty, not hoppy, and kind of chemically. It was drinkable but not enjoyable. However, after letting the beer sit for 2 month, it turned out fantastic! But half of the batch was already gone/dumped. This batch was not cold crashed/cold conditioned, and it was bottle conditioned, so it's hard to isolate the reason. I'm looking forward to brew another batch with A09 (maybe next month)

[@mutantryeff]

I took a recipe for a 'British Strong Ale' that was based on WLP022 This brew was awarded a 'Silver' in the 2020 "Unofficial Regionals in SF" when they canceled all the regionals for COVID. Back around Thanksgiving, I couldn't get WLP022 so I thought I would experiment with the three yeasts I could find. None of the recipes were as good. I have one batch that has been sitting in the keg since then (WLP013 version). I tasted it last night and realized that it would be considered a great 'Old Ale'. It has this nice good/bad yin/yang thing. I will be submitting it to a major competition soon to just get it judged as an 'Old Ale'. It could be a successful failure.

[@danielkremer6494]

Very interesting as exactly the same recently happend to my IPA. I was really disappointed in many ways and guessed it's the recipe and potentially some oxigen. I will bevery curious about your next batch with improvements.

[@GentleGiantFan]

So Martin, was the beer good enough to keep drinking or did you dump it? The reason I ask is I've had a string of "meh" beers here lately. This last one I brewed has been better than most, but I'm still not floored by it like I have had with earlier beers I brewed. I hope you haven't dumped it. I'd love to see you brew this again and compare the flaws of this beer to the good version you intend on brewing.

[@tylerb6081]

Phenolic? That's a big red flag for an English yeast.

[@aleksip3794]

Maybe you under pitched the yeast? That usually gives kind of a solvent flavor.

[@ad.ke.7224]

What was the point of making this video? - I don't know, it was probably pointless. What did we learn from this video? - I don't know, probably nothing. Did I feel entertained? - I don't think so.

[@81dedhed]

Did you figure what caused the off flavour?

[@nicksymons635]

Do you think pitching the yeast higher was a factor…? No mention of carbonation and serving temp….just wondering if that was a factor….

[@Mikkogram]

Nah, 2°C over max for a couple of hours won't hurt the beer or the yeast. Maybe a little bit more esters but solvent/phenolic mostly means chlorine

[@chamiboy1]

maybe bad hops?

[@derDKP]

Well, at least it looks nice

[@JPch108]

Bad... Bad..

[@mikekeller5202]

You should have waited to put this video out until you figured out what went wrong

[@BasementArthurSpooner]

Looks like they've tried and now trying to get any potential answers from us guys.

[@ianlaker9161]

I agree. I was waiting for a definitive conclusion on the fault. Instead I felt distinctly dissatisfied. Usually a fan of Martin's content too.

[@Mikkogram]

I thought so at first as well, but i feel it makes his content more "real" since he included the fuck up