MN Dunkerque - Guide 040 (Human Voice)

[@Drachinifel]

Pinned post for Q&A :)

[@JYF921]

This is a repeat of my question: How and why did the light cruiser ROCN Chongqing (formerly HMS Aurora) defect to the Chinese Communists on 2/25/1949?

[@michaelsullivan6127]

A '...amid much embarrassed coughing and shuffling of feet'. Gotta love it. Another great video, sir, after many of the same. Carry on!

[@joshthomas-moore2656]

Assuming that Admiral Somerville wasn't put on the clock with "Settle matters quickly" message plus other pressures do you think that like him he could have got away with not having to open fire all other factors remain the same

[@T.S.Birkby]

What is the cost for research, planning, and designing a battleship?

[@Black_shadow1996]

so you gonna check out Ultimate Admiral Dreadnought?

[@GaldirEonai]

_Most_ ships only manage to get sunk _once._ But of course the french have to be special again...

[@Shenaldrac]

Plenty of US battleships did the same thing during Pearl Harbor.

[@jadenhirst9230]

@@Shenaldrac They were only sunk once in combat.

[@Shenaldrac]

@@jadenhirst9230 Don't be a pedant.

[@penkagenova7073]

@Sparky Puddins no you dont understand the Battleships most all were sunk but except for arizona were all raised back up again and some then were sunk during or after the war

[@charlesf9050]

French battleship for sale, sunk once never fired

[@sophiepaterson7444]

I'm kind of impressed that the French navy with all its quirks and problems, went from having ships that were bizarre floating hotels to reasonably competitive warships within a relatively short period. I mean, I know that the Royal Navy also advanced pretty spectacularly, I'm just saying that the French seemed to come from along way further back. ...if that makes sense.

[@bkjeong4302]

It's probably the steepest learning curve of any significant navy in the 20th century. Unfortunately, by the time they actually got battleships right and produced some fine designs, the entire battleship concept was outdated.

[@VersusARCH]

I think the Japanese had a steeper learning curve. I mean the French had a continuous development of first rate (ish) warships since the middle ages, with a little bit of falling behind due to consequences of the Franco-Prussian war. The Japanese stagnated during the Edo period, bought most of their warships abroad until WW1 and then casually started building top of the line warships, sometimes the best in the world in their class at the time of commissioning. They even managed to be pioneers in aircraft carriers.

[@extremetea]

The French still way behind... Only now it's in personal hygiene. SHOWER!

[@nektulosnewbie]

No, France has continually had problems in ship design going back at least to the 18th century because of their silly love of over innovation. The RN was always criticized for being too conservative, but that conservativism kept their feet on the ground and their designs evolutionary. They also knew when to drastically innovate and to have it be the exception not the rule.

[@nektulosnewbie]

@@VersusARCH Japan didn't stagnate, they had almost no naval tradition before the Meiji period. Despite being an island nation they had a reluctance to sail beyond the sight of land and their ship designs were never great until they began to Westernize. This is why Korea's turtle ships were so devastating. They were actual warships going up against ships intended to be transports crewed by sailors who had little to no naval warfare experience. They cut through them like a gunboat against rowboats.

[@Boxghost102]

French: Let's make a battleship with all forward-facing guns. Also the French: moor the battleship facing the shore.

[@donm3227]

Uh, ever hear of the Rodney and Nelson British BBs

[@Betrix5060]

@@donm3227 Did they moor them facing the shore?

[@SpectreOZ]

Facing the shore enables easier loading of wine and cheese stores...

[@Edax_Royeaux]

British: Lets ally with the French! Also the British: SINK THE FRENCH!

[@SpectreOZ]

@@Edax_Royeaux It would be fair to say the English have had a love hate relationship With the French for Centuries 🤣

[@nnoddy8161]

Beautiful looking ships - both the Dunkerque and the Richielieu - just stunning.

[@Wombat1916]

I have 1/400th scale Heller models of all four ships. Of them all I find Richelieu the most beautiful and purposeful - with guns totalling more than 100 barrels!

[@paulrasmussen8953]

I find them ugly with all guns forward

[@nnoddy8161]

@@paulrasmussen8953 Thanks Paul.

[@inary682]

@@paulrasmussen8953 nobody cares paul

[@paulrasmussen8953]

name acutally most do since this idea faded fast

[@alexhousakos]

Drachism of the video; “Presumably 10.000 tonnes were needed for the wine and cheese storage” Love that!

[@Autechltd]

I wouldn't be surprised if the French tried to argue that cheese and wine shouldn't be included in the ship's total displacement for Washington Naval Treaty, just like how the English argued that water shouldn't be calculated, for much the same reason. Then you get cheese and wine filled armor bulges.

[@jimpollard9392]

But the crucial question remains: How much of it did they manage to save as the ship went down?

[@alexhousakos]

@@Autechltd Agreed! If that was the case, it's extra funny

[@Zarcondeegrissom]

agreed. the second runner up I think is "The designs were quietly shelved amidst much timba embarrassed coughing and shuffling of feet."

[@chefchaudard3580]

@@stanleyrogouski I was not in the Marine Nationale myself, but it was well known among military that food is always very good onboard " La Royale" ships.

[@wrayday7149]

Mock French guns all you want, when a salvo of 13” stale baguette pens your armor, you will be singing a new tune.

[@X8X8X8X8X8X8X8X8X8X]

ALLONS ENFANTS DE LA PATRIE LE JOUR DE GLOIRE EST ARRIVÉ

[@s.31.l50]

*IF* it pens

[@LiveErrors]

@@s.31.l50 its a Stale Baguette, of course it will

[@tigara1290]

@@LiveErrors Not if I cover my ship in bretzels it wont!

[@LiveErrors]

@@tigara1290 silly person, there are holes in pretzels

[@1Korlash]

The best comparison of the Dunkerques and other battleships of their era I've ever heard is that they were, ton for ton, one of the best battleships. They just didn't have enough tons.

[@Arthion]

If you stop considering them battleships, but rather battlecruisers (although Strasbourg is actually semi-decently armored) they aren't quite so bad. I see a lot of similarity in them compared to something like the US Alaska-class, although just a much older design. Dunkerque is around 5k tons lighter but brings fairly similar capabilities if not possibly slightly more firepower.

[@Balmung60]

To a certain extent, Richelieu is basically Dunkerque with those extra tons, and was quite possibly the best battleship any European power ever built At least after the US slapped a couple dozen bofors guns on it

[@jannegrey]

Strasbourg (and to lesser extent Dunkerque) had the best armor to tonnage ratio of all battleships at the time they were built. They were actually very modern and it is a shame that they had very bad luck and couldn't fight alongside allies. They were modern enough, while being small enough that they could have been used post-war if they survived.

[@admiraltiberius1989]

A real shame neither of these beautiful ships ever saw real useful service. And double shame that the French Navy didn't order its ships to make for British ports. Fantastic video as always Drach.

[@bkjeong4302]

Well, they're another of those 1930s/1940s capital ship classes that were rendered obsolete on launch by naval aviation. Doubly bad because the expansion of the Marine National was arguably a much worse waste of the French national defence budget than the Maginot Line.

[@phoenixjz4782]

@@bkjeong4302 Only in hindsight, and even then it's not a particularly strong argument. A navy capable of defending France's sea lanes was very important (ex, France was entirely reliant on imports for fuel oil), and keep in mind for much of the interwar period the most likely threat to France was Italy, and a war with Italy required a strong navy. Therefore, the rebuilding of the Marine Nationale, which in 1920 consisted almost entirely of old and obsolete ships, was essential to France's defense and foreign policy.

[@KJAkk]

@@bkjeong4302 You might want to watch this video. kzbin.info/www/bejne/Y4m5eYyda8ypjbc

[@bkjeong4302]

@@KJAkk Please re-read what I wrote. I didn't write anything that contradicts that video.

[@mikecimerian6913]

Some ships did join the British navy. France was indecisive. We have to remember the atrocious casualties taken during the Great War. 1,300,000 French servicemen died during the first three months of the war.

[@williamheayn3760]

Having been kicked to shit by 4 nations at 4 separate times, "unsalvageable" may be an understatement.

[@TheNinjaDC]

UK & US: "Let's sink her!" Nazi Germany & Fascist Italy: "Let's save her!" France: *sigh*

[@barleysixseventwo6665]

Her: JUST LEAVE ME ALONE!

[@Feiora]

@@barleysixseventwo6665 Just imagine what her sister whose even more desirable than Dunkerque was going through mentally and physically...

[@marseldagistani1989]

@@Feiora Is this an Azur Lane Reference?

[@ZMangles]

France: "Oh merde"

[@devobronc]

A good peer is the Japanese Kongo Class after 1930s refits... This French Class could not stand against any of her contemporary WWII Battleship Peers.

[@jermainerace4156]

The number of times shallow water in harbor has saved a ship, or at least made her salvage much, much faster, is so great as to make one wonder if berths shouldn't' be dredged to a standard depth and floored with concrete.

[@BobSmith-dk8nw]

The problem with losing guns is obvious but there were advantages If they were winning and the enemy running away - they had all their main guns up front to shoot at them. If they were losing and running away themselves - having the secondary armament on the stern put it in a good position to engage any enemy destroyers coming after them. .

[@kkhagerty6315]

One of my favourite ships and my first premium in world of warship. I love this thing

[@brianellis8620]

I have every ship in battle of warships and its still the one I Play 75 percent of the time. front assault monster

[@asherkosmos4312]

Hey Drachinifel, there's a game called, Ultimate Admiral Dreadnought(still in Alpha stage but it's good!). Now if you ever played Rule the Waves then it's very similar but you can see the ships in their glory in full action. The reason I mentioned this game is I want to see how you would build ships to counter other nations navies if you were given authority and budget for development. BTW great videos as always! 👍

[@jameson1239]

Yes we need to bring the game to his attention

[@Feiora]

@@jameson1239 SHouldn't you guys bring his attention to it AFTER it releases?

[@historytank5673]

Lol I made the French the supreme naval power in the campaign. Tho due to my caution about the funding of the navy it’s only slightly above the UK

[@BHuang92]

After the war, some of the armor plates from Dunkerque was reused in the post-war French tanks, the ARL 44 (which was not a good quality tank)

[@Feiora]

Considering its armor was made from the rusting remains of a scuttle ship? Yea I can kinda see why it wasn't all that great to be honest, but at least it was somewhat better than those bloated WW1 designs... Oh wait... (Honestly why do we keep the french around?!)

[@weld546]

@@Feiora tf you're saying

[@Feiora]

@@weld546 In response to the terrible tank or why do we keep the french around?

[@weld546]

@@Feiora the last part.

[@Feiora]

@@weld546 Do you have a good reason to keep the french around?

[@jamestheotherone742]

Who doesn't like a sad story that involves the French Navy?

[@Edax_Royeaux]

Probably the Royal Navy...cause the French Navy defeated them in the American Revolution and they've had to deal with the colonials ever since.

[@Balmung60]

@Jimmy De'Souza maybe that, in the 1950s, Richelieu and Jean Bart finally got to meet up in service? It was only briefly, but after over a decade, they finally got to sail together.

[@bkjeong4302]

@@Balmung60 Except they were obsolete upon launch and should never have existed.

[@Balmung60]

@@bkjeong4302 Battleships were not wholly obsolete when Richelieu was commissioned and the idea that they were in 1940 is based on an overzealous application of hindsight that ignores that there were still very distinct limits on the capabilities of carriers at the time, such as a requirement of broad daylight, as well as ignoring that it took years to refine the tactics that made them as effective as they were. This goes even moreso in European waters where land-based air support was far more available than the vast expanses of the Pacific.

[@bkjeong4302]

Balmung60 Even with the limits of naval aviation in the late 1930s, carriers still had a massive edge over battleships in that their superior range enabled them to simply remain out of a battleship’s attack range (unless it’s a CVE or you’re an idiot and sail your carrier towards the enemy a la Glorious). This is the single biggest reason battleships were replaced by carriers-the battleship could not attack the new capital ships. And the entire justification behind battleships existing was sea control through combat with other capital ships; they could do other things, sure, but they were not the best available options (tactically and/or strategically) for any sort of supporting role. Once carriers took away the primary fleet unit role in the 1930s (though nobody knew that yet), there was no reason for any new battleships to enter service.

[@againstallodds6508]

In my game 'battle of warships' I love using Dunkerque, USS Texas and the Kongo but Dunkerque is my favourite, slightly disadvantaged with only forward facing cannons but she's a beautiful ship and packs a fair punch, I just wish I could've seen them in reality

[@jamestoomer1330]

It was my first fast bb in that game, sunk many cocky ships that tried to charge me head on

[@dndboy13]

aw man, i was hoping you were gonna go more into the whole scuttling at toulon, theres like nothing online in english; unsure how reliable it was, but i recall reading somewhere that the guards at the naval base asked the germans for paperwork to buy time for the fleet to prep for scuttling (and probably to delay them without getting involved in a firefight)

[@Drachinifel]

That'll have it's own video eventually :)

[@davefinfrock3324]

It's an interesting subject in its own right. The French were very thorough in the scuttling. There wasn't any coming back from it for the ships involved.

[@oOkenzoOo]

If i recall correctly, the Strasbourg held out some German soldiers and tanks with its secondary guns while the others where preparing the scuttling. The Germans attempted to negotiate and demanded that Laborde, the admiral of the Strasbourg, surrender his ship, to which he answered that the ship was already sunk. Also the submarines Casabianca, Vénus, Marsouin, Iris and Le Glorieux attempted to escape under German machineguns and bombs. The Casabianca, Marsouin and Le Glorieux managed to join the Allies but the Iris was seized by the Spanish while it was refueling in Spain. Venus, being the first creating a breech for the others, was too badly damaged during its evasion and so was scuttled at the entrance of the harbour.

[@davefinfrock3324]

@@oOkenzoOo The account I've read didn't mention anything like that. The French waited until they knew German troops were approaching Toulon, then essentially wrecked the ships. Guns were destroyed with charges of picric acid, the boilers were lit and had feed water turned off, sea cocks were opened, and the crew ran rampant with sledgehammers destroying everything that could be smashed. There wasn't much salvageable left after, even though several ships looked relatively intact, aside from sitting on the seabed.

[@oOkenzoOo]

@@davefinfrock3324 This was from various French reports which detailed the events hour by hour. In those there were the accounts of several officers and crewmen from the various ships who witnessed the scuttling.

[@RCAvhstape]

Any French naval subject is Drachism gold.

[@Balmung60]

Dunkerque's armor would at least see some further use, as it was salvaged as materials for the ARL 44 heavy tank

[@thegeneralissimo470]

The French really like their quad turrets.

[@LeCharles07]

It's actually heartbreaking to see a battleship in the kind of state shown at 7:06.

[@KatyushaLauncher]

It's sad but at least the sailors aboard her didn't die when they were scuttled

[@ryszardkoprowski1414]

Thanks for great video - as usually! But, sorry for pointing one thing. When you're talking about Dunkerque do not use a fotos of Strassbourg instead. The main visual difference was the conning tower with admiral's bridge - Dunkerque had only 1 platform, where Strasbourg had 2 platforms. Only my 2 cents to this. Good job, carry on Drach!

[@TheRealStrikerofLife]

awww no mention of how its Forward turret armor was turned into the ARL 44 prototypes turret armor.

[@neoconshooter]

What I was looking for was detailed info on the ships and their performance and sea keeping.

[@piritskenyer]

Hi Drach, I'm just here once again to point out that the French 330mm guns were monstrously powerful weapons in terms of penetration, to the point where they outpenned the 14" Mk VII and the 14"/50 Mk 11 (was it Mk 11 on the refitted New Mexicos? Anyway, those) and even the early USN 16" guns.

[@mauriceofnassau5476]

And the shells had a very powerful burstingcharge for there size.....

[@metaknight115]

So the Yamato’s 18.1 inch guns were the only thing that could out gun it. Amazing

[@derekmcmanus8615]

Excellent informative as always! Looking forward to the follow up video.

[@Arthion]

France certainly had quite the hardon for quad guns on everything. Even the secondaries. At least the Richelieus had saner secondaries. Quite like the class from a design standpoint aside from said secondary battery, just rather sad about their fate during the war. I reckon they could've been quite the asset had they been made available to the FFNF.

[@ImAFatCheezIt]

Please do the Sovestki Soyuz (battleship), or Leningrad (destroyer).

[@glriouscoc4467]

You playing at Battle of Warships 😀

[@brianellis8620]

on all battleship games that have real as possible dynamics dunkerque and rodney are an absolute power house for what they were tonnage wise and front attack monsters

[@Arc_space_goat]

French ships are always just a bit strange lol

[@MrMattumbo]

*The French are always just a bit strange lol

[@Arc_space_goat]

@@MrMattumbo I loved the "added more room for the cheese" comment :)

[@Terrekain]

In World of Warships, the Dunkerque is great... at going in reverse. No joke. It really was a really fast BB going in reverse when it came out - and still is.

[@FortuneZer0]

I thought it was a joke like anything else the french made on the past century.

[@jadenhirst9230]

@@stanleyrogouski Oh please, the british may have had a few gems but most RN battleships were boring and a bit weird to look at. USN dreadnoughts were (and still are- we have the only one) at the same time very practically laid out AND beautiful. They have an imposing presence, when I first saw the Texas she looked downright mean and regal. And of course, the US built the Iowa class and won the award for most beautiful ship in history, so there's that.

[@agesflow6815]

Thank you, Drachinifel.

[@baronvonjo1929]

How did they not have shipyard big enough? They made the colossal 80,000 ton Normandie.

[@OhSome1HasThisName]

Normandie was a commercial ship so maybe it would be better to say the French didn't have a big enough naval shipyard?

[@baronvonjo1929]

@@OhSome1HasThisName It was built in France in a Fenech shipyard though. Not sure how they could get the guns of course. But the hull? I believe so. They also had made some 40,000 ton ships as well. The L'Atlanique and Il-de-France. Not sure if I got the spelling right. Both of those were built in the 1920s though. (I just looked at your post comment again. Do you mean a ship yard that had the ability to make a warship? I always heard of British shipyard making both passenger and naval ships. I will look more into what kind of ships the shipyard that built Normandie could build.)

[@EliteF22]

I'm curious about this also. France had the only Atlantic drydock that could take the Bismarck and Tirpitz, so it should have been large enough.

[@OhSome1HasThisName]

​@@baronvonjo1929 Yeah I meant more on the lines of the ones that were big enough to build the ocean liners lacked the skills to make warships; unsure if this is correct, just speculation

[@nektulosnewbie]

Those yards could have been in use and not freed. Plus the French have always had a hard time expanding their yards. The carrier Charles de Gaulle had such a wide beam for its lengh (which messed with its speed) because they couldn't expand the intended dock she was to be built in: there was a shed at the end of the dock owned by another government branch and they refused to move it for the navy forcing them to redesign the ship to fit the docks dimensions as is.

[@kasualmechanic4854]

Actually, from what I remember, the Dunkerque was actually salvaged and the steel from the ship was used to build Frances Pre War ARL-44 Tanks but maybe I am confusing it with another ship

[@teknonaught]

a Drachimifel video about Mers-el-Kébir? please do!

[@filipzietek5146]

Strasbourg considering belt inclination was quite decently protected and it's worth mentioning that french 330mm guns outpreformed some 15 inchers in both penetration and bursting charge.

[@torpedospurs]

IMO Strasbourg had the best design amongst the battle-cruiser group (Renown and Kongo rebuilds, Scharnhorst, Alaska, B-65).

[@filipzietek5146]

@@torpedospurs Strasbourg was a fast treaty battleship. The gun limit at the time was 14 inches. Scharnhorst was a a fast battleship too but undergunned due to treaties. Alaska and B-65 were not battlecruisers in any capacity and were not intended to be. They were unrestricted cruisers which could be seen more as revival of armored cruiser. People make mistake compare Alaska to treaty ships while it's a post treaty ship and don't look at Alaska in it's contemporary escalatory context.

[@torpedospurs]

​@@filipzietek5146 You can't tell people not to compare when they've got the guns and the size. Alaska was a bigger ship, built much later, and still comes out looking worse. The Alaska and B-65 were pretty much the 1945 version of the Invincible so yes they are definitely battlecruisers. Strasbourg was designed to catch the Graf Spee's of the world, exactly the battlecruiser's job.

[@torpedospurs]

As for Scharnhorst, she's German and German battlecruisers all go with the same idea - keep the armor thick and have smaller guns than your displacement would suggest.

[@filipzietek5146]

​@@torpedospurs German battlecruiser had no idea of having smaller guns ffs, german battleships and battlecruisers both used 11 and 12 inch guns. For a while they preferd more 11 inch to less 12 inch guns but it's rally a minor difference. Germans overall used smaller guns. Scharnhorst was not an "idea" but it literally was not legally allowed to have bigger guns. The whole point of of a battlecruiser was to have contempotary battleships guns and a cruiser speed. Invinvible was called a drednought armored cruiser becasue it was an all big gun armroed cruiser, the term battlecruiser was coined later and the concept was crystalzied. Battlecruisers were suppsoed to be capable of joing the battleline if needed, Alaska was not capable not intened for that. All it was it was an overgrown cruiser because after treaties ened usa was expecting larger cruisers to show up. As for the role of battlecruiser it was the same as that of an armored cruiser except the fact that increased firepower allowed it to meaningfully contribute to the battleline. They were also designed to be faster than older ships but the same as drednought was faster than pre drednoughts. Alaska was not even faster than Iowa and had neither armor nor firepower to meaningfully contribute to a modern battleline. As for comparing based on gun size this is such a ridiculous argument than i am tired of hearing it. You compare late ww2 post treaty ships to ww1 ships etc which is ridiculous. This is the kind of logic kids use and call dolphin a fish. Armored cruisers in the past had 8-12 inch guns when pre drednoughts had 10-12 inch guns. Thats way smaller difference than between Alaska and Iowa. Post treaty Battleships guns are 15-18 inch guns. Alaska was not really faster than Japanese heavy cruisers so it wouldn;t be able to hunt them either, it was basicly intended for the same role as heavy cruiser just not burdened by treaty limitations and expected to to be capable of fighting other large cruisers but not anything above that. People say cruiser killer = battlecruiser which is simply not true while every battlecruiser is capable of that its not the full extent of it's role. Large armored cruisers were cruiser killers, battlecruiser was an armored cruiser that could engage battleships on top of that due to battleship grade armament.

[@loganb7059]

This is dripping with British smugness and I love it.

[@baronvonjo1929]

For real

[@jameljay2183]

It's boring

[@loganb7059]

jamel jay Found the Frenchman.

[@jameljay2183]

@@loganb7059 Insulting other people is always funny for british ! never understand why everyone hate them

[@loganb7059]

jamel jay You aren’t helping your case. Also, it was a joke. To quote Stripes, “Lighten up, Francis.”

[@ashman187]

Thought you would catch this ; 3:20 ONI 203 : The firepower diagram is incorrect, side secondary firepower is 10 5.1" not 8.

[@klobiforpresident2254]

How much more devastating would the depth charge explosion have been were it forty-four crushing hands of God?

[@weldonwin]

I don't think the port would have been there anymore after that, just a massive, roughly circular crater filled with sea water

[@Excalea]

Well about Mers i hope you're not too biased towards a certain faction, in my opinion Churchill was paranoid back then, well of course Darlan is a bit opportunistic but he did kept his promise for the ships not falling to Axis hands didn't he? For some, the lost of lives at Kebir is a thorn in the side for Anglo French relations and what they did is still unacceptable

[@jlvfr]

Don't forget the UK was afraid, not just of Darlan's reaction, but what the _germans_ might do. It's all well and good to say "I will do this", but the germans might very well have been able to force a surrender *before* a scutling was possible. And plans often go wrong: rushed work, shallow waters, a malfuctioning fuse, and now the germans had at least part of the french fleet in their hands. And, in 1940, the brits were desperate; the only things that kept the germans away were the Channel and the german navy's lack of ships. Hence, the perceived need for the attack.

[@kemarisite]

@@jlvfr dont forget that the French admiral at Mers failed to inform his government that the British were offering an option Darlan had already approved of, moving French ships to French territory in the Americas. Or that the French had already violated their agreement with the British not to seek a separate peace with Germany.

[@jlvfr]

@@kemarisite true, that didn't help...

[@jlvfr]

@@Excalea "FDR and a bolshevik agents in Whitehall"... really?... what next, aliens?

[@bkjeong4302]

@@Excalea ...what?

[@demian7567]

The english can't help themselves from ragging on the French, can they

[@katrinapaton5283]

Well in all fairness Drach rags on everyone.

[@HootOwl513]

It goes back to the Sixties. The 1060's. 1066 to be precise. 100 Years War didn't help.

[@Feiora]

Much desired, and I hope that french admiral is rotting in hell for all eternity or being driven mad in purgatory for what he did that Mers-el-Kébir...

[@JTA1961]

Oh cheese, quit wining 📉😎📈

[@kendramalm8811]

Hey, those wine & cheese stores add class! I mean, grog & hardtack? No wonder British jack tars were so eager to get into battle, death seemed better than dinner! Or maybe that was the point...

[@JTA1961]

You forgot the limes. 📉😎📈

[@SonOfAB_tch2ndClass]

what does the Strastbourg have in common with the Nevada Class? They Both sank twice! :D

[@tomasinacovell4293]

It's funny that word "salvage" it can mean scrap or to restore.

[@Feiora]

Considering the word has a french origin makes it rather ironic in this situation? www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/salvage I'm not sure about restoration part though? Salvage is claiming anything of value before its too late usually...

[@IsKor06]

I've always loved this class of ships. They are so elegant! Too bad that she didn't fight a single real battle :p

[@jomarmanatad8832]

Why?

[@bkjeong4302]

To be fair, how many battleships actually fought a real battle in WWII?

[@616CC]

Subscribed cause of the intro Won’t lie. *Dun dun dunnaner dunnaner* lol

[@Kim-the-Dane-1952]

Enough room for wine an cheese eh?.. Well as a longtime ships agent I can tell you that it was always a pleasure to attend French merchant ships since they were sure to have excellent vittles and drink well above the standard of other nations ships. No doubt the MN was the same...Sooo.. Torpedoes be damned.. full steam ahead and pass the cheese!

[@glriouscoc4467]

Hi I‘m french and I like so the Dunkerque. He is very beautiful 😍😍

[@glriouscoc4467]

@Tattle Boad I dont know

[@darwindemartelaere3195]

Drachma, in the video lead up to the 5 minute guide to warships...what the the debris that flys about from the 2 gun turrets when they fire?

[@thibaudduhamel2581]

Sexiest battleship (battlecruiser?) of the 1930s. By far

[@williamcobb1122]

Of course she is...she is French isn't she.

[@thibaudduhamel2581]

@@williamcobb1122 Hon hon hon *laughs maniacally in baguette*

[@RossEphgrave]

I don't know... the remodelled Renown was pretty bloody sexy. And pretty nasty to boot.

[@EliteValor1003]

I love the design but I would never command such a ship due to the lack of a rear turret. but some will say forward fire power is all you need. And I say I rather not have a ship of any size get behind me to wreak havoc.

[@Big_E_Soul_Fragment]

Ah, yes, Doughnut lady in Azur Lane.

[@Deilwynna]

dunkek the doughnut muncher. i would have used her in game if she wasnt so useless, her sister, jean bart, is a lot stronger

[@Arthion]

@@Deilwynna Technically Jean Bart really isn't her sister since they aren't the same class.

[@Deilwynna]

@@Arthion i know jean bart (richelieu class) and dunkerque (dunkerque class) are different but its such a minor difference i see them as sisters, same with akagi and kaga, 1 is battlecruiser (amagi class) converted into carrier, 1 is a battleship (tosa class) converted into carrier

[@Feiora]

Theres always someone from Azur Lane here on Drach's vids... I really cant break away from that game...

[@Deilwynna]

@@Feiora game about historical ships, ofc youtube channels like this is going to attract "weebs" that are somewhat interested in actual history

[@red.5475]

Could anyone point me in the direction of some pictures of Dunkerque and Strasbourg postwar? Both ships survived Into the late 1950's as hulks.

[@jameljay2183]

So funny After the glorious retreat of Dunkirk , the British sunk a battleship named Dunkirk !

[@glriouscoc4467]

Hi do you like the glorious ? Because me that is my favorite ship. He is my username 😂😂

[@penkagenova7073]

@@glriouscoc4467 you mean the ship that was sunk by Scharnhorst and Gneisenau?

[@glriouscoc4467]

@@penkagenova7073 oh realy ?

[@oscarrigo5358]

HONHON REVOLUTION NOISES INTENSIFY

[@captainseyepatch3879]

Ahh... My favorite (Well one of two) Battleship Designes. Not perfect and kind of odd. My I love her.

[@merafirewing6591]

Dunkerque makes the best snacks.

[@joker_g7337]

5:10 so the French admiral shoot at the French ships?? No mister, you shall not change the past. The British shoot at the french and killed "...several thousand Frenchmen". The French said that the french fleet would scuttle if the German came too close.

[@justinbeath5169]

The French gad already betrayed Britain's trust by seeking peace with Germany separately from Britain, so they could never have known if the French would actually have done that. And if anything went wrong with the scuttling then Germany could repair them. They should've either sailed to Alexandria or the Caribbean

[@Drachinifel]

The French also claimed no Germans would get their ships, whilst at the same time having just signed a treaty that explicitly gave Germany the majority of the French fleet.

[@TheNinjaDC]

Britain also trusted France to not let Germany take France. Look how that that turned out. And a few quirky French ships in "allied" ports are a lot easier to seize than all of France.

[@davidrenton]

the British gave the French multiple options such as going to the US or French West Indies, going to the UK, Scuttle the ships immediately, the British were remarkably fair in not insisting the fleet be handed over to them. Saying that the French would scuttle is neither here nor there, the British couldn't rely on that promise, being maybe the French are surprised, maybe the scuttling is ineffective, maybe key person who would off scuttled are replaced by more pro Vichy officers. IMHO the French where to blame

[@canicheenrage]

@@Drachinifel Citation needed.

[@jimtalbott9535]

At 3:30 - look at the armor scheme - They've left a massive amount of interior space UNPROTECTED - how will the wine fare in a fight??

[@xROJANBOx]

WW2 Italian ships were impressive and beautiful, the Italian Navy not so much

[@juicemeister1984]

Italian navy ships were just trophy ships. If the italians used them well they might aswell troll the russian (soviet) caspian fleet and annoy the hell out of allied US and UK ships.

[@wun1gee]

I think we just found the French tier 9 and 10 supercruisers...

[@ivebeenfound1575]

Can you do a video on the probably existed Belgian navy

[@MarcStjames-rq1dm]

a cursed life for any battleship!

[@jmrico1979]

such a sad end to such magnificent ships

[@KatyushaLauncher]

Magnificent is an overstatement but they were very good battleships

[@jmrico1979]

@@KatyushaLauncher I might have gotten carried away... I'll rephrase to "remarkable"

[@michaelgodbee1456]

Comparison between her an North Hampton class cruiser would be good to

[@kidmohair8151]

as if more evidence was required, that chaos, and the leading part the French play in it was needed, I invite you to peruse the comments below.... enjoy!

[@Lord.Kiltridge]

I am very intrigued by these designs and would have liked to see them used operationally against Germany and Italy. The French should have put MN Dunkerque, Richelieu, and every other French ship down to destroyer size, their admirals and crew under command of the British admiralty. Everyone unwilling to remain with their ship after the transfer would have been repatriated back to France after the surrender. Not only would this have been useful for the Allied war effort but it would have given the ships operational experience. Their failure to do this was nothing short of a betrayal to the men and women who ultimately liberated France.

[@thebeautifulones5436]

Like the kid a school who everybody hates

[@robro2214]

Such a cool ship class, a shame how they went

[@JYF921]

Repeating my suggestion for a review of light cruiser HMS Aurora/ROCN Chongqing.

[@PB4UG02Bed]

I know in some of your videos you've said you played wows with your community, but have you ever checked out Ultimate Admiral Dreadnought? The game is still in alpha but let's you build and design various types of ships.

[@COMPNOR]

Tragic end to arguably a beautiful ship design. They could have accomplished much in the war if Darland wasn't a fool.

[@TheMrPeteChannel]

The last war France won by itself without allies was the the Invasion/Occupation/Colonization/Annexation of Algeria in the 19th century.

[@BStrapper]

Why are the Brits, who claim obsessively that they do everything better than everyone else (especially the French), factually so average by European standards and benchmarks of all kinds?

[@andysatrioajie7886]

ah the dun kek the finest of marine nationale.

[@extremetea]

Hon hon hon. We luv the mighty froggy ship. I give you 3 baguettes for it no?? May weee ? Oh no that smell is me. I do not shower. Weee wee

[@jamesvandemark2086]

Lets not forget the wine & cheese!

[@brookeshenfield7156]

“...much embarrassed coughing and shuffling of feet...” That is an English response; a French reaction would more likely involve emotionally demonstrative objections to the blatant use of facts to deny what is wanted with no acknowledgement of the feelings of the wrongfully disparaged naval architects who are not in charge of dockyard development. Mon Dieu!

[@Popsaircraftdetail]

Wine and cheese 😂

[@Excalea]

Just to add here, about Mers el Kebir, many believed only the Axis commited warcrime in the war but this is definitely a crime for the Allies, for those who said that all of this tragedy could be avoided if only Darlan immediately surrendered the ships to the Brits during the ultimatum, it was not, it was the only show of might France had left after her surrender, The Germans are kind enough to spare 30% of what's left of France and THIS FLEET is the only thing France had left, her Army had fallen, her air force is in shambles. If this fleet is gone, there's nothing left stopping the Germans invading the rest of France. Fortunately, The Hero of Verdun was there. Look Petain did his best for France and some of his actions are unacceptable (deporting the jews etc) but he did that for the good of many. IF the Army continue fighting like what de Gaulle had promoted, and engaging in guerilla warfare, the Germans would invade and perhaps slaughter even more innocent civilians. If you're in his position what will you choose? Continue fighting and letting your country be invaded, innocents killed, your country destroyed by the enemy or cease fire, sign a treaty and retain what's left of your country, saving millions of lives from unnecessary slaughter?Petain took the logical option. Cease fire, surrender to the Germans, and become client state and hope for the best. He tried to protect his country, unlike a certain man who escaped to Britain and declares his own government in exile. Darlan DID keep his promise to Churchill, of course he tried to negotiate some deals with the Germans, with Hitler rejected him because he believed the French cannot be trusted. The Allied invasion of North Africa change it all, Dakar, Casablanca, Torch everything. Darlan's opportunistic side get the best of him and he sign that treaty, prompting the Germans to invade the rest of France. Case Anton, the name given by the Germans for the capture of the fleet in Toulon saw some pretty dramatic actions. The checkpoint guards asked the Germans for paperwork, trying their best to stall them and give time for the crew to prepare the scuttling charges. In the end, The Scuttling succeeds, The Germans got nothing from Anton and Darlan kept his promise to Churchill, only to be assassinated by men under the order of the Allied leaders

[@BHuang92]

Not as clear cut as anyone would've put it. The British and the French had their own conflicting agendas and only rarely agreed together. The U.S was the only power of the western allies that managed to make both the French and the British to cooperate.

[@AkosJaccik]

I was prepared to hear the let's just say, "british side of narrative" on this channel and I was also prepared to be esentially okay with it, but by God, at this point even "We just went there to help but they started shelling themselves" would not sound more bonkers. Outright implying "It's their fault that they had to die", seriously? I'm massively, massively disappointed by the video. At least take an effort to make it look like a "fair assessment of a complex situation".

[@michaelgodbee1456]

I like the dunkirk

[@comradedog4075]

Does anyone know which french battleships attacked and fired upon americans

[@jmrico1979]

do you mean the jean bart? it was the americans who were shooting at her... jean bart returned fire

[@comradedog4075]

@@jmrico1979 was it stationed in africa

[@jmrico1979]

@@comradedog4075 yeah, morocco i think

[@jmfleureau8662]

Cuirassé Richelieu à Casablanca.

[@xenofoxx]

Interesting twist in the final fate of the ship. Late WW2, France wanted to build a new tank design, resulting in the obscure vehicle ARL 44. The armor plates for the turret was made by cutting up the hull of Dunkerque. One of these vehicles is still on display at a museum in Saumur.

[@markgarin6355]

I guess the Dunkerque was designed with big guns going forward and attacking, with little guns when retreating. Guess they only used smaller guns, caused they would be closer.

[@TAMEREDUDESERT]

an other surrender joke ?

[@pilotnelson4507]

All that time,money and lives waisted on the Dunkirk and Strasbourg....

[@bkjeong4302]

Really, WWII era BBs in general. Great case studies in how to fail at naval procurement and end up with a bunch of powerful but pointless ships.

[@trilochankhuntia7120]

It is like I am playing realistic Battle of warships

[@pfrstreetgang7511]

Of course, it makes lots of sense to take gold reserves to Canada......through a bunch of Uboats......cuz some people there spoke French......and we don't want to ask Americans for anything cuz they might remind us of all that inconvenient advice we ignored during WW1 and after....like building the Maginot Line after....

[@joearnold6881]

Kinda hard to enjoy this one. Excellently done, though. Here’s me grimly anticipating that video on the broader situation, if you do decide to cover it.

[@CDNShuffle]

youre either second or last

[@SuperibyP]

I really love these videos, but could I make one suggestion? The outro is CONSIDERABLY louder than the rest of the video, and more than once have I had to rip my headphones off because of it. Maybe consider turning it down somewhat?

[@jsomiller44]

Ending volume is 4x greater than the video voice volume. Please fix my cats will thank you.

[@tomhutchins7495]

Monsieur, if you must go to war without 10,000t of wine and cheese, you must wonder if it is all worthwhile.

[@marcneef795]

They named a ship Dunkerque before Dunkerque was a thing 😮

[@Black_shadow1996]

Dunkerque was best girl

[@donalddemo]

"10,000 Tons was needed for the wine and cheese stores" LMFAO These and The Richileu's were very beautiful and very bad ass BCs and BBs - far more than reasonably competitive and actually superior to British Renown and Admiral Class (Hood) BCs which were fossils comparably and same with Richileu class vs QE, NelRods certainly Revenge class and even modern KGVs At one time in early 70's was the baddest ship afloat. After debacle at Mirs el Kabib ? it was refit on east coast in NY I think and was comparative to Iowa class with all same radar fire control and as much AA after refit . With 8 forward guns these ships presented much smaller when exchanging heavy metal coming at you head on . KGV not as good - but they did manage to build 5 of them. Arguably its every bit as Dangerous as a Bismark if not more modern Tirpitz and better then Littorio Venetto (sp?) class - likely every bit as dangerous as a SD or NC Class - more so because of speed and most modern by end of war - after the NY refit it was basically baldest boat afloat - sure Yamoto bigger but better? It would easily run away from her during day and attack with superior radar/range finding at night and probably pummel it into retreat if not submission It would take escorts with torpedo's to sink it though as 14 " shells likely would not. And as far as Dunkerque - likely best BC ever built Hood, 2nd entirely due to age and lack of refit - same as Renown class..... Alaska class which "technically " is not a BC or BB would likely avoid 1 vs 1. Dunkerque's 13.5 inch guns would wreck Alaska's thin armor - it was perfect counter to Germans Scharnhorst class with 11 inch guns or their planned six 14,5 inch gun upgrade that never was . Arguably Hood owns best BC due to speed, range and armament just not near modern as Dunkerque so a fair comparison not possible for that.... if modernized? Hood all day and 2x on Sundays With refits Renown class likely equal to Dunkerque class. Then there's the Kongo class....... 8 x 14" guns and eight 21-inch torpedo tubes is a lot of hitting power from a BC but its slow (27 knot ) speed due to Hood era (1915 ish) age..... Kongo like Hood great example of "not quite a BC but not quite a BB either" description . It was actually built at Vickers in UK. at 700 feet and 27,000 tons its basically a scaled down slower version of Hood. Certainly capable of out gunning and US Cruiser and out running any Standard class US BB in her time and right up to WW2 when SD and NC entered service. Really only Hood could deal with her as no QE class could catch her and likely not a NelRod either. In the Pacifi was baddest boat afloat for a long time.

[@maryleridaantonio1563]

dunkerque people try hard to get it in bow

[@benquinney2]

Champagne

[@BlindMansRevenge2002]

Poor French Navy! No glory no honor just a bunch of beaten and battered ships that really didn’t do much of anything!

[@pierredyvoire2013]

Gensoul was not an idiot! Just he could not conceive such a bastardly attack, and thought he had no orders of the britishs to comply. The murderers trying to reject the reponsibility of their crime on the victim. Pityful ...