Mobile Chip Design - Computerphile

Building a chip for a smartphone or tablet, where do you start? ARM's Jem Davies talks about the 'horse trading.'
CPU vs GPU: • CPU vs GPU (What's the...
Structure from Motion: • Structure from Motion ...
How Bitcoin Works: • How Bitcoin Works - Co...
Finite State Automata: • Computers Without Memo...
/ computerphile
/ computer_phile
This video was filmed and edited by Sean Riley.
Computer Science at the University of Nottingham: bit.ly/nottscom...
Computerphile is a sister project to Brady Haran's Numberphile. More at www.bradyharan.com

[@JanBabiuchHall]

I would love to see much more interviews about component design, engineering, and manufacture. I would've been happy to watch another half hour or hour with Jem Davies getting more in depth on this topic. Very interesting.

[@TheKyshu]

+Jan Babiuch-Hall Only half an hour? I could listen to this for hours :)

[@ClayMann]

+TheKyshu only for hours? I'd wire myself into a clockwork orange contraption and absorb it all for days. Actually no I wouldn't but I suddenly felt competitive and had to outdo both of you haha

[@TylerMatthewHarris]

Somebody needs to paint a stool with their schematics and sell it as an ARM chair

[@noxim_]

Im sorry for my hate of bad puns

[@EQuivalentTube2]

+TMH ZZZzzing!!!!

[@JonnyD3ath]

Waow!

[@emperorSbraz]

nowadays a very interesting way of designing a phone should start with "we have a 2000mah battery and we want it to last at least 24 hours at 100% usage". :)

[@emperorSbraz]

thmsbarber yes but how about a new separate flagship line focused on endurance rather than features? :)

[@UltimatePwnageNL]

+sbraz Then it can't use more power than 83mA on average which pretty much means you'd end up with nokia 5110 type features because after backlight and the cellular radio you're left with < 10mA.

[@matsv201]

+sbraz Well.. then you have to determent what 100% usage is. Is it browsing, video or game... it have very different load characteristics.

[@emperorSbraz]

Hatagashira better than having 8 cores 4k screen 128gb lte lasting 2 hours... i'm obvoiusly exaggerating for the lolz here, but the battery situation is equally silly imho, unless one goes with power banks or big tablets. :)

[@SyukriLajin]

But then they went "hooray, we have a chip that can run using half the power usage. Let's reduce the battery capacity so that we can make it stupid thin!"

[@wdyahnke]

These are some of the coolest interviews yet. It's fascinating to see someone talk about what's happening RIGHT NOW in phone design. Thanks for the very relevant info!

[@ronnetgrazer362]

That was amazing as always. As much as I like the academic interviews it's great to hear about things from the people actually implementing it!

[@bmurph24]

I love this guy.

[@KnownNever]

"It only cost like $20 to manufacture the phone, why is it $500".... this is why lol

[@any1alive]

+KnownNever but return for researcha nd development is payed by quickly then it is profit besides that upkeep

[@vermashwetank]

+KnownNever One word: Advertisiments

[@JBroMCMXCI]

But it's still wrong. It's unfair to be made to pay 20x the cost of what you're actually getting no matter what it is. If they want more money they can either not spend so much or ask for people to donate to help cover the extra costs. These companies are the worst and you're just a mindless consumer apologising for them. Why don't you just sell your house and give it all to Apple if you care about them so much

[@benjaminwilde152]

+JBroMCMXCI It's the technology that costs this much. You have to agree that turning $20 equipment into such amazing gadgets requires a lot of researching, mental work, tools, and so on. Someone can create the whole KZbin, or any other big website only using notepad. Are you going to ask a developer to make you such a website for free because no money is invested in the process? I think not. You're paying for the geniality and hard work that is put into such products, not the material that is used.

[@SyukriLajin]

Because you need to use a 1million dollar machine to build one of the 5$ component. And you also need to pay the people handling the machines.

[@GediMini]

Great video, it would be very interesting to hear more about this topic, the design/manufacture process forthis kind of devices is quite mysterious to most.

[@Patcul]

Looked at so many videos on this topic but this video was so much more informative than anything else in terms of insight and how things actually work. Thanks a lot!

[@MeowMeowDeathRay]

So informative. One of the best series you have done by far..

[@KabooM1067]

I wish your videos came with captions. I'm not a native speaker so sometimes I lose a few words here and there because of the accent. Kinda hard to focus on what he's saying when I'm focusing on how he's saying it.

[@dhirusngh]

Very nice description of design specification !!!

[@peppybocan]

16k resolution ... wow :D

[@lorenzvo5284]

+Peter Bočan sure thats the resolution?

[@peppybocan]

+Deer Viehch oh c'mon, don't be so ... pedantic. :D

[@lorenzvo5284]

Peter Bočan i just wanted to prevent people commenting that the video is processing in case they didn't get the joke or read the comments first :D

[@peppybocan]

Oh I see now, thanks.

[@Freakschwimmer]

+Peter Bočan Damn you :D You had me quite excitedly check the resolution settings...

[@porridgeandprunes]

I've often wondered how chip designers think. They are the heart of the whole thing really. A more detailed video about the design process would be great.

[@unixbash]

This is an extremely interesting view of looking at mobile design!

[@nagualdesign]

Getting rid of functionality that they assumed their customers didn't really use is one of the things that people complain about most vocally too. Like people who are angry at the loss of Aero features and customization in Windows 10, which was a complete waste of battery power anyway but that doesn't stop people seeing it as a step backwards. :-D

[@nullptr.]

camera with image stabilization plz?

[@fuppetti]

+unknown error Or he could just use a tripod...

[@GroovingPict]

+unknown error careful now, he will chew you out for any sort of valid criticism of his filming practices or techniques. "Image stabilisation? tripods? hah, yeah, I wish I lived in a perfect world"... as if you would need a perfect world for that to happen.

[@trisymphony]

+Deltaexio just what i was thinking the whole time

[@seanski44]

+GroovingPict chew chew 😉

[@thelol1759]

+Deltaexio He's going for specific style. And carrying a tripod all the time for this type of work is hard. Especially as a one man team.

[@SIC66SIC66]

I love hearing from this guy. Amazing

[@tscoffey1]

He snuck in my favorite word, "deprecating", right at the end.

[@Warrantti]

Excellent videos We want more more more more...

[@hrnekbezucha]

What does a hardware prototype of a chip look like? Is there something like a breadboard for chips?

[@troyjj386]

Open GL,Vulcan,DirectX which is better & what would be the standard in the future? thanks

[@kittyrocoa714]

I was wondering how would you design a piece of hardware that can be upgraded with software?As we know some ROM can be reprogrammed, and keep that state, so I wondered at the level of logic gates can a system can have its physical components upgraded via software, rather than just the program being updated?

Can you make a video about the Pentium FDIV bug?

[@waldsteiger]

either he has a blue screen running every time or he spent too long with the aliens bringing the technology :)

[@AshwinSinha]

How and why are GPU requirements different for optimizing for games vs. optimizing for UX/UI?

[@msahakim]

If Linus Tech Tips didn't exist, this would've been the only way you get your tech fix on youtube.

[@angeldude101]

Do you guys know anything about RISC-V, and if so, do you think you might make a video on it?

[@ClayMann]

+angeldude101 RISC stands for Reduced Instruction Star Craft 5, i think. No I'm sure. Unless you know better then I made a mistake and wasn't trying to sound smarter about something I know nothing about, honest.

[@angeldude101]

Clay Mann So that means the RISC-V is "Reduced Instrustion Star Craft 5 - V"? So that's what that is.

[@ClayMann]

angeldude101 well I might be wrong about the R and the I :)

[@123FireSnake]

geez man i don't know i've heard people sometimes rely on their phone having a battery life under usage of more than a few hours, that however doesn't seem to be a priority:/

[@nagualdesign]

@Jem Davies, you needn't try to gloss over the complicated bits. I think we'd all probably understand whatever you were willing to explain, without you having to always search for layman's terms. Probably >90% of people who 'liked' this video have a background in programming, engineering or science in general and are more than willing to stretch their synapses.

[@linkVIII]

Can I get a mobile gpu to play games on dolphin (well)? (dependent on real drivers)

[@linkVIII]

There's dolphin on android but the state of mobile gpu's, as expected, aren't near the state of desktop cards. A couple of years ago dolphin had a blog post about the state of gpu's and not much has changed.*****

[@7necromancer]

Make a video about desktop GPUs, thanks

[@fir41]

Could you add a subtittle?

[@TheEvilVargon]

Is that matt parker at 1:30?

[@Freakschwimmer]

+TheEvilVargon mh, I dont think so :/

[@Frrk]

Fascinating :)

[@sulack]

Give me moar of this guy please :)

[@TechXSoftware]

When I grow up i'm gonna be a CPU

[@ClayMann]

+TechXSoftware you should be become a GPU. They get to have more fun.

[@adamliv6279]

+TechXSoftware You should be RAM - it may not sound fun in the short term, but it pays off in the end

[@AnstonMusic]

+TechXSoftware I'm more of a leader type, so I'll be a mother board.

[@Jackpkmn]

The laptop i bought in 2006 had a 4000 mAh battery. The laptop i got from 2013 ALSO had a 4000 mAh battery. And another laptop battery i saw from 2008 has a 4400 mAh capacity. All the standard issue laptop batteries i've seen have been 4000-4400 mAh. Why is this, hasnt battery tech advanced at all?

[@MyAulos]

Jackpkmn That's physically impossible, battery tech is at its limit. Only way you are getting more capacity is for batteries to be replaced by mini-fuel cells or supercapacitors.

[@GGGJJJay]

Is it just me? But for some reason I always feel so disconnected with every computerphiles intro. I'm like this when any video opens up from a clip/segment from the video. I'm fine with rest of the video but it's like I got nothing from the intro.

[@goeiecool9999]

1:24 To get a thousand miles from the earth a rocket would need this much power.

[@yaus0527]

Do it in Engineer Way!

[@MisterRedBird]

Ever heard of a tripod?

[@TheFoggyjones]

+Mr. Red Bird Yeah. But the chances of anything coming from Mars are a million to one. Also, it gives the production a nice Greengrass vibe. Jason Bourne is gonna come crashing through that window there any second.

[@NocturnalJin]

This video is a good lead in to why more and more work is being offloaded into cloud technologies. End user devices are headed towards becoming dumb terminals again. Or at least, quasi-dumb.

[@16yearoldwhiteboy]

Hey Computerphile. Which is more important, data communication or computer processing power?

[@ClayMann]

+Chris Koro I'll answer that since this is KZbin where you can comment on things you know nothing about. While it is a mix of both as one without the other is useless obviously, the real importance comes from the processing which is the most expensive problem to solve due to its tiny scale. Communications can be handled mostly remotely with dumber tech on the client hardware. BUT that's changing isn't it? We've seen the first wave with cloud storage and many services but the next wave will see the cloud outperform start to offer services in the form of pure processing power and outperform what local processing can do by such a margin that it would be insane for any company to think it can compete doing it all locally. The BUT is contingent of communications becoming more reliable than it is right now with faster speeds available in greater saturation around the countries being sold to. But that's happening across the developed world, some places faster than others. OK, how did I do? That was straight up just guessing so I'm super happy to be corrected, chastised and generally told to STFU. It's youtube after all, need a thick skin here :)

[@Taras195]

REAL HUMAN BEAN AND 2:24

[@bob13513]

more like designing a product around economics, i thought this was computerphile.

[@ClayMann]

+Tulpa these are the realities of the industry. If you want design for its own sake without limits, you need to get into interior design. I've never seen so much insanity in an industry as there. And who knows, once homes get really smart, you'll end up working on computer problems there too ha.

[@TheFoggyjones]

+Tulpa That's how consumer electronics are designed. If the product isn't economically viable you're wasting your time.

[@Punditube]

Sooooo.......what kind of phone does this guy have?....

[@petergibson2318]

Alcatel 1016G obviously. Only the best.

[@afroninjadeluxe]

i used to be with 'it' but then 'it' became weird

[@bean6754]

:)

[@KennethKolano]

This rant is way too long for the few pertinent thoughts it conveys (i.e. mobile chip design is limited by power available, and negotiations between distributing that power).

[@hanniffydinn6019]

Fascinating. Apple do all this in house I guess ?

[@DreadKyller]

+Hanniffy Dinn apple uses almost exclusively Intel chips, they don't do it in-house, they have the designers at Intel design chips for them.

[@sauron1427]

only the design, production is offloaded to third parties

[@avnwx5526]

+DreadKyller this video is about mobile chips, and Apple bought PA semi and does design of mobile CPUs in-house. of course it's all based on ARM but still lots of customization to do

[@hanniffydinn6019]

AVN WX apple still use ARM processor designs licenced from ARM. I think that's as far as it goes though. They have teams in house that do what's described in this video to produce their a* range of chips. I think apple are the only ones that do all this in house. The rest work with ARM directly to build their own mobile chips.

[@skifree0]

+Hanniffy Dinn It depends on which part of the SoC you are talking about. the CPU traditionally has been designed in house ever since A6 (A4 was based off samsung's Hummingbird, and A5 was a stock ARM design). However, the Gpu designs themselves have always been outsourced to Imagination Technologies. Though I believe final integration of those Gpus are still done in house. This happened with Recent iPads where they sourced a 4 cluster gpu unit, but linked 2 of them together to get the performance needed. As far as anyone else. Qualcomm used to do it with krait, but with apple's push to 64-bit causing a paradigm shift, Qualcomm used stock ARM designs for a while. Snapdragon 820 i think is the first back into an in-house design with the Kyro core.

[@RentableSocks]

BENQ montor and a webcam? This guy streams.

[@TylerDurden_420]

subs please?