Mobo Twin Powers, Activate! Checking Out The Supermicro H12SSL-I/H12SSL-NT

NOTE: The H12SSL-I's network interface is 1 gig, not 10 gig. Sorry for the confusion!
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[@RMquickbit]

Wendell, I never plan on building a server, but damn every video you guys put out is an instant winner for me. I recommend this channel to everyone asking about anything hardware related, and some software here and there. It’s so nice having a channel like this when you have truly educated hosts who understand every aspect of the components mentioned and also explain why you should or should not pursue the products. 10/10 y’all, most trusted channel with with sponsors. 👍🏻

[@theglowcloud2215]

Why would you not build one? It's more fun than painting an exterior wall beige, building a weather-resistant enclosure for a kerosene lantern, or marmoset husbandry.

[@CathyInBlue]

I remember way back in the heady days of Sun SPARQ Stations. They opened up a telnet port early on first boot. So, there was a chance, if you did the first boot on the network, that someone could be lurking out there, listening for traffic indicative of a Sun SPARQ Station booting up, and they could login with the well-known default password and change the root password before the actual owner of the station even got a GUI login screen.

[@TheExard3k]

But at least you could intercept and log everything, including new passwords because telnet wasn't encrypted. The good old days :)

[@ChipterLP]

Ah yes, SPARQ architecture and Solaris. Recently had the honor of the dealing with one of those in university. Quite an interesting experience, though a bit annoying since right from the start we found a pretty terrible bug in chmod (something to do with the way arguments are handled, theres some weird parsing going on)

[@declanmcardle]

SPARC - Scalable Processor Architecture. Well, virtually everything was started and "open" in inetd.conf: rlogin, rsh, telnet, (t)ftp etc. I don't remember a default root password though, unless you mean SunOS

[@The_Conspiracy_Analyst]

those were some fun days

[@zacharylewis417]

Running an H12SSL-I paired with 7302P. Works great and for the price. Hard to beat. And I can always jump to 3rd gen when prices drop. Great upgrade path in the future.

[@AbhishekRamesh1]

How is it working out for you so far? I was planning the same thing. Are you running Windows?

[@zacharylewis417]

​@@AbhishekRamesh1No regrets so far. No for what my use case is for. I use Truenas scale running a few VMs/dockers.

[@AbhishekRamesh1]

​@@zacharylewis417Thanks for replying. That's good to know. I currently run Truenas scale on AM5 platform. Lack of Pcie connectivity is pushing me towards EPYC. Any idea what your system idle power is? With AMD 7600 + B650 motherboard + 40Gb NIC + Four 2TB SATA SSD's + 1 m.2 SSD, my idle power is around 50W.

[@zacharylewis417]

@@AbhishekRamesh1 98-110watt idle. H12SSL-I, 7302P, case CSE-826, 128GB 2666 ram, 10 NVME and 12 SATA SSD. 10GB NIC intel X520-DA1 and a P4 GPU for transcoding purposes. On load it pushes 150-160. A few spikes in 180. But at most I'm pushing a few 4k transcodes and 4-6 1080p. Rest is some self hosted stuff plus VMs. So I mean it probably idles even less if I shutdown all services minus Truenas itself.

[@AbhishekRamesh1]

@@zacharylewis417 Thanks a bunch. This helps.

[@ist34RR]

I built a H12SSL-C paired with an Epyc 7413 for a customer and no complaints so far. Knock on wood, everything has been rock solid. Its running proxmox with multiple VMs on it, and performance wise I couldn't be happier. Literally the only thing I can complain is the part availability, had to wait for the SuperMicro case and finding a CPU for a reasonable price was a hustle.

[@thedarkknight1758]

Which raid controller is suitable with this mobo . And can i fit the mobo in normal atx cabinet?

[@jimmylane5861]

I got my used h11SSL-I(rev 2) from china 2 days ago and just got the swap finished and truenas transitioned from an ES Xeon 22core to a ES 7542! So cool that you posted a video at the same time lol. Had a asrack mobo that wouldn’t remember my boot order soooooo after 2 years I didn’t wanna set my boot device anymore.

[@Алексей-й3ю5ч]

Что запустили на этом устройстве?

[@AgentLokVokun]

4:42 -- Wow just days after this video went up most of the cases have been jacked up in price.

[@jsclayton]

Lol I was just plotting a build with one of these! That’s the only reason I know that per SuperMicro’s specs they use Broadcom NICs, not Intel.

[@timramich]

I wish SuperMicro would lean towards putting transceiver cages on their boards over 10g ethernet. It's honestly something I'll never be interested in using.

[@ktfjulien]

Over 10gbase-t*

[@timramich]

@@ktfjulien Correct.

[@jmwintenn]

I wouldn't mind an episode about disk on module. seems like it is pretty awesome, but it doesn't support much capacity and people say it's super slow. DOM feels like it inspired hot swap, but got left behind.

[@SciPunk215]

All hail the RS-232 Serial interface !!

[@Spacekop]

Supermicro's site says that the boards in the H12 generation all get their 10G networking from a Broadcom chip, not the X550 you claim in the video. I have an H12SSL-NT it has the BCM57416 which lines up the the online specs. Also it runs hot which forces the fans to stay ramped up regardless of how chill the rest of the system is.

[@jannegrey593]

Very nice and the size hopefully means that you can run them in desktop form factor. Not that I will ever have so much money to do so. I wanted to start building my 5950X system and then I realized I don't have any anti-static mod mats or anything. I never used them, but it's been almost 20 years since I've built PC from scratch. And I don't want to fry my part just because I didn't have all the safeties in place.

[@jannegrey593]

@Astrocat 3D So touching any large metallic object? I'd need ideally a bracelet that does this all the time if I'm using both hands.

[@jannegrey593]

@Astrocat 3D That's what I thought. And no I don't plan to tinker with CPU pins or anything like that. Probably dropping CPU in the socket will be the most electrostatically challenging thing i will do. I already rolled he carpet off the floor. Thanks for your help.

[@jannegrey593]

@Astrocat 3D I will. I just need to work up courage to build everything from ground up.

[@znoozi]

tell Sliger to make a 4U case with maximum amount of 3.5" slots. There's a sore lack of affordable rack mounted NAS cases on the market.

[@Level1Techs]

They have a decent one on my to-do list.to build with

[@bartgrefte]

What I am particularly curious about is the idle power consumption of boards like that. The not always quite low idle power consumption is the reason I tend to stay away from Supermicro boards, but finding alternatives that can use ECC functionality then becomes a problem if I want that... For comparison: I've got 3 systems running 24/7, including a diy UPS they draw about 15-16W idle total, though I should note one of them is a Raspberry Pi. If I want to build an ECC capable system, the lowest idle I've seen in reviews is more than twice that.

[@TheExard3k]

You probably want a Ryzen then. ECC on certain boards while still being able to tweak voltages and power limits.

[@bartgrefte]

​@@TheExard3k So, Ryzen's do actually use ECC functionality?

[@TheExard3k]

@@bartgrefte There is no official support or validation, but ECC UDIMMs (not only the module, but also the ECC) work on selected motherboards, like AsRock Rack x570d4u series. Got this setup up and running on my homeserver. This applies to all normal Ryzen CPUs, but not for the APUs, because their shared video memory can't handle the ECC. The Ryzen Pro APUs however allow this.

[@denvera1g1]

Remember those old Dell CloudEdge C6100 2U, 4 node servers, with 2 processors on each node? 6144MB of L3 cache in a 2U server? Honestly, i really wish MilanX also used a 7nm IO die so i could throw in some 4200-4800MT/s RAM and run it in 1:1 mode like i can with Cezanne and Renior

[@denvera1g1]

I really miss the X8DTT-IBF line. dual processor, on a motherboard that was only the hight of an ITX motherboard, but the width of an EATX motherboard

[@jandorniak6473]

I like those 5.25" bays, put an IcyDock there ;)

[@jeremymoon9088]

I predict an upcoming wendell reviews the w680 server board for 12th generation Intel core...and I can'twait! I see a preliminary page for an ASRock rack w680 board, too; but supermicro and gigabyte have them so far, tho only supermicro is available rn afaik

[@johndprob]

I seriously prefer the preset password on the sticker approach, all else fails at 2am and you cant login to your password manager, you open the chassis and look at the sticker.

[@stuartlunsford7556]

Those rack mounted cases are surprisingly cheap! Not much server tax there lol.

[@TheExard3k]

Expensive rackmount chassis are expensive because of the drive bays and backplanes. Sliger and other minimalist chassis just stick to steel, screws and possibly fans. If that's all you need, 4U chassis are very affordable

[@nukesaway4806]

Always wash black t shirts with black t shirts. Also if you throw it in the drier it will look better Life Hack!

[@wjrneo2]

I have the H12SSL-CTO version of this board and ran into an odd-duck. With my HBA's installed in the 8x slots it would get stuck on detecting PCI devices (94). but when I moved the HBA's to the x16 slots, it booted fine. My HBA's are older 9211-8i, and a 9201-16i. Really frustrating to use up an entire x16 slot with a x4 card.

[@qazwsx000xswzaq]

Have you tried different HBA firmware versions? Sometime they fix things magically (of course there is also a chance they worsen things too...)

[@wjrneo2]

@@qazwsx000xswzaq I will probably flash them to remove the Boot ROM and see if that fixes it. I had left it on because I had thought I might one day boot it from one of the storage bays. Instead, I've never done that and always have used the internal SATA ports for a mirrored boot setup in TrueNAS.

[@ajhieb]

@@wjrneo2 Something else worth a look... Not sure of that specific MB/BIOS (EUFI) combo has the option to enable PCIe bifurcation, but I have several that do, and enabling for a slot that doesn't need it can cause some squirrelly behavior. Also, before you flash your HBAs, try disabling the option rom for that PCIe slot in the BIOS (EUFI) as it should have the same effect. (and disabling any option rom for any device you don't intend to boot from will also speed up the boot process)

[@xeamumceo2681]

I recently built one of these system but i haven't been able to get display

[@qazwsx000xswzaq]

So Supermicro really ships these boards in white unbranded boxes lol I have just received two and keep on suspecting if they are "open-box" or repacked stock lol

[@TrueThanny]

Not unbranded. There's a Supermicro logo on the boxes, but they are very unfancy.

[@denvera1g1]

7:55 I have an AM4 board and it too struggles with not only PCIe slot graphices, but also built in graphics. I tried to use a Ryzen 5 Pro 4650G, which refused to work until after i used a 3600 to disable onboard graphics

[@Agent_Crimson]

I wish I had the big bucks for a 7443P basically a dream CPU

[@andrewwilson7169]

I was half hoping you are planning to install this in a Fractal Torrent case

[@TheExard3k]

He already put a Gigabyte EPYC dual socket board into the Fractal Torrent. Ever since that episode, I wanna do this too :)

[@andrewwilson7169]

@@TheExard3k Yeah I know. I have watched it several times then I did something similar, but with Naples, not Rome let alone Milan

[@TheExard3k]

@@andrewwilson7169 I'm really scared of populating all the memory slots. If I go EPYC, I want all 8 channels up and running. Maybe DDR4 RDIMMs and Milan SKUs get a nice drop in price once we see Genoa hitting the market.

[@abavariannormiepleb9470]

Are you still looking for W680 motherboards? The Supermicro X13SAE-F is available in Germany, wouldn’t mind ghost-shopping and relaying it to you.

[@Level1Techs]

Yes dm.me.ill PayPal you

[@Gastell0]

Supermicro board with 7 pcie slots? That doesn't happen often!

[@bisbita001]

I have that board and as far as I know, it does not have 10g internet.

[@TrueThanny]

The -i board has 1G onboard. The other revisions have 10G. All are Broadcom, not Intel (as Wendell mistakenly said).

[@amateurwizard]

Hmm, I heard you can put 768 MB of L3 cache on each of those... maybe it was a typo

[@morosis82]

That is the Milan-X CPU with the 3D V Cache addition. I think the next version is over a gigabyte.

[@garycroft6091]

I have 4 sticks of 256 G. will 4 sticks work on the 7402

[@willee5348]

Whatever happened to SuperMicro making an x570 board?

[@Jagerbomber]

Get boom mic box and say This Is My Boombox

[@timkarsten8610]

Could someone link the server cases Wendell mentions?

[@wreckervilla]

I'd like to see some benchmarking tools and an optimized build to run the open source offline AI Dungeon alternatives like KoboldAI and AI Dungeon 2: Unleashed. Local hosted chatbot anyone?

[@mcpr5971]

Sorry if you said this but I wasn't sure: does either board have SAS onboard so you could use SAS drives or a tape drive?

[@Level1Techs]

No sas needs a pcie addin controller

[@marcosoliveira8731]

Would you build a Proxmox sever with these boards?

[@TheExard3k]

I certainly would. Plenty of options for storage with slimSAS and 8 memory channels, up to 64 cores and 128 lanes along with corresponding slots can do anything really.

[@gerald4027]

I got the H12SSL-CT version with a 16 core eypc cpu.Running server 2019. 90% of my programs will not run with the setup due to wrong os issues and some times I get a wrong cpu error message.Windows 10 pro does not have all of the driver.Runs Suse Linux and gimp very well. Any idea why some programs do not like server cpus and why some programs do not like server os?

[@ericmiller8700]

What is the model of the 2 x NVMe PCIe card you held up at kzbin.info/www/bejne/eovbqp2IhddgrNk? Would love to get my hands on one for testing.

[@ADB-zf5zr]

Did someone throw a bag of flour at you.?

[@Digi20]

I always had a soft spot for using server grade hardware in desktop productive environments. all those gamer flashy bling bling boards with a thousand add-in chips nowadays just get on my nerves. throwing a 7443P, 128GB Ram and a H12SSL into my trusty 15 year old lian li case just feels totally streamlined sexy. no extra 10g NIC or HBAs needed, no PCIe lane juggling...sadly the upcoming 7950x will just murder the epyc cpu in single core workloads (hello adobe, you suck...) and probably even be a bit quicker all-core. for half the price. hmm. not very economic. but still tempting.

[@alroe4067]

Does anyone know where I can buy an Enterprise M.2 22110 SSD with PLP. I found a few shady resellers that sell them but I'm looking for something more legit.

[@ajhieb]

Doesn't the onboard IPMI rely on the onboard VGA? That is to say, can you disable VGA without breaking IPMI?

[@Level1Techs]

Yes but you lose remote mouse and keyboard. Serial console and power control still works fine

[@ajhieb]

@@Level1Techs Ahh... I think that's more than I'm willing to sacrifice. I can live with the MS default VGA driver in Windows. I can't thank you enough for all of the great content. Would I be out of line to invite you out for an adult beverage? (Apparently I'm reasonably close)

[@christopherjackson2157]

What determines the limit on the amount of CPU power you can put through one socket? Is it the size of the socket? Or does it have something to do with the number of pins or the heat or something else? It does seem to be fairly steady across different platforms and generations of hardware

[@Ownermode]

The processor needs to support it. Intel has Xeon cpus with 2 or 4 processors per motherboard. Amd supports 2 at max.

[@ajhieb]

From an engineering standpoint, the amount of power is typically going to be limited by power dissipation and power delivery. If you can't get rid of the heat, the CPU will overheat and fail (or throttle) so it's pretty important to be able to remove the heat, and that is typically a function of the die size and the CPU footprint (which limits the size of the heat spreader) Power delivery is typically going to be limited by the number and size of pins (which in turn will also be limited by the CPU footprint) The end user typically doesn't have to worry much about power delivery for high wattage CPUs other than to make sure they have a sufficient power supply that has all of the necessary power connectors. But heat dissipation is where you need to put in the work. Not all cooling solutions are qualified for (or capable of) cooling the higher wattage CPUs. For instance I have a couple of SuperMicro 2U servers that require specific heatsink/fan combos for the CPUs if you're using any CPU over a certain wattage as the stock coolers just won't get the job done.

[@Blacklands]

​@@ajhieb Yeah, seeing the insane amounts of power that extreme overclockers can push into a CPU - it really doesn't seem like the power delivery itself is a problem, or would be anytime soon (although I'm not sure how longevity of a CPU might be impacted if we imagine that it would draw e.g. 400W regularly). But we already have CPUs now where even the giant air coolers like the NH-D15 barely can keep up during turbo boosting and even watercooling loops with smaller-sized radiators struggle when it comes to extended high loads. For servers, I don't know what the situation is - I assume "just throw _even more airflow_ at it" stops working at some point, even when each fan already draws like 30W by itself? :D Of course, if the bottleneck in the heat transfer happens to actually be somewhere between the CPU dies and the fins of the cooling solution (whether those are on a radiator or an air cooler), then it doesn't help to just push even more air through those fins.

[@thedarkknight1758]

Which raid controller is suitable with this mobo . And can i fit the mobo in normal atx cabinet?

[@gerald4027]

I put a ssd7202 highpoint in mine.

[@dangingerich2559]

I had not heard of that California password law before. So, I looked it up. I have seen a lot, and am rarely amazed about the stupidity level humanity can display, but this really amazes me. How is this even constitutional?

[@pandersen7984]

it's an attempt to save the rest of the world from the blissfully ignorant users that never change the blank or default passwords who think if it's shipped that way, it's good enough for me 😖🤦‍♂️🤷‍♂️.. in reality through, the intent of California's law is to create awareness around security while reducing and/or eliminating misuse and abuse of equipment from users that are not the owner, agent of owner, or hired contractor or service agent or otherwise lack a legal right or reason to access said hardware or equipment (bots, etc.)...

[@dangingerich2559]

@@pandersen7984 The stupid and lazy NEED to suffer the consequences of their action or inaction or they do not learn. Protecting people from the consequences of their actions is a perfect way to destroy a society.

[@gerald4027]

I heard that farmers have to put diapers on cows because cows cause methane gas and that causes global warming.

[@ktfjulien]

Which part of the constitution would disallow this?

[@TechySpeaking]

First