Modal Interchange - Chord Progressions with Beautiful IVm ideas

[@JensLarsen]

So what is a good example of IVm in a pop or jazz song? 🙂

[@andreasalustri9703]

sleep walk..?

[@PB_Chill]

Some 50s Doo Wop, Beatles (lots, i.e. black bird), Queen, ELO (Living Thing) Green Day (wake me up when September comes), Radiohead !!!, Elvis Costello.... JAZZ (My Romance, Donna Lee, Misty, )

[@xxczerxx]

The end of Layla by Derek and the Dominoes has that min IV - bVII dom sound, a bit like the backdoor progression, but really it's more of a switch to parallel minor. Always reminds me of the montage in Goodfellas where all the guys start getting killed off! The modal interchange stuff is great though, wow that ending cadence at 11:27 is beautiful! Never encountered that before

[@kraftec]

Perfect Day by Lou Reed

[@jazzman7165]

"Darn that Dream" - in a few spots! and "Here's That Rainy Day". Maybe it's a Jimmy Van Heusen thing?

[@arekmenner]

Perfect examples! When I first learned IVm I called it "The Radiohead Chord" in my head. I love how near the end of "Nude" they seem to have just run out of ideas and thrown it in for no reason.

[@JensLarsen]

Haha Thanks! I have to check that out in Nude 😄

[@arthurmee]

Jam packed with information. No filler or padding. Superb lesson. Thank you Jens.

[@JensLarsen]

Thank you very much! Glad you like it!

[@pclare2716]

This lesson was exceptionally useful. I have always had a hard time figuring out how the IVm chords fit into the analysis of a song. You have certainly given me some new ideas about how to analyze these transitions.

[@JensLarsen]

Really glad to hear that Peter! 🙂

[@JazzDuets]

superb!± so much information Lars!

[@JensLarsen]

Thank you Nick! It's Jens actually 😄

[@JazzDuets]

So sorry! lol

[@JensLarsen]

No worries! I was introduced as Lars Jensen in the concert I just played as well!

[@alilotfi7974]

@@JensLarsen i thought you were maybe also once was introduced as Lars Ulrich ! 2 nice danish persons with a bit of different character :D

[@sakules]

boy pablo - Everytime, is a good example of a pop song using that IIm7b5

[@nunolance23]

Well played on the Radiohead joke towards the end, Jens! Haha

[@JensLarsen]

Thank you Nuno! 😄

[@smileswrappedingauze]

seriously though, this had more legit music theory info than most youtube vids i watch... as a person that has even learned how to play 'no surprises' (/both radiohead examples), i never thought of that one as a minor IV chord like that! it's deff not as obvious as 'creep' going directly from the major C to minor C like the entire song long lol.

[@JensLarsen]

Thank you! I think functional harmony is not used enough to understand music :)

[@johndeming2019]

"A Foggy Day" by Gershwin pulls this beautifully with Bb6 to Bbmin6

[@JensLarsen]

Certainly 🙂

[@johndeming2019]

@@JensLarsen Later it goes Bb6 to Eb7 instead -- if I'm hearing you right, this would be backdoor dominant?

[@delbedinotti6622]

Jen's is a master. Because of all the memes, seeing him analyze Smoke on the Water is a bit comical. Great content as always.

[@JensLarsen]

Thanks! I like to mix it up a little bit 🙂

[@ericgamliel8500]

God damn it! This is an excellent channel you have made. By all means, continue with your outstanding work.

[@JensLarsen]

You're very welcome, Eric! Glad you like the videos!

[@merttalay9702]

I think the scale mixolydian b13 c major with b13 and b7 is the 5th mode of melodic minor scale that dream theater uses a lot and also classical music.Also beatles uses much.

[@jumemowery9434]

Thanks for another great lesson Jens!

[@JensLarsen]

Glad you find it useful! 👍🙂

[@IgnazioCarbone]

Jens, your videos are pure gold, always inspiring. I recall a song by the Eagles, "wasted time", in the key of C major, that ends with the chords Ab major, Dm7b5 and C major. Cheers!

[@JensLarsen]

Thank you! Great example! 🙂

[@frankpike3684]

Jens your videos are great but every time I watch one I end up going down the rabbit hole and 3 hours later have forgotten what it was I originally intended to practice when I first sat down! However they are endlessly inspiring!

[@JensLarsen]

Thank you Frank! I can imagine that you can get lost in stuff like this. Make sure that you only go to KZbin next to whatever you are working on 🙂

[@composer7325]

Excellent.Thank you for this upload.

[@JensLarsen]

You are very welcome Peter! I am glad you like it!

[@paulstein5196]

Always loved these chords, but could never place them in the context of theory. Thanks for the insights, clearly demonstrated in the examples you gave.

[@JensLarsen]

You're very welcome Paul! I am glad you found it useful 🙂

[@Shuzies]

Love this video...thank you for all of this work.......out of the park on this one....ron

[@JensLarsen]

Thank you Ron! Really glad you dig it!

[@niponipo3939]

Thank you so much for lesson! I hope, that in future you will make series or big full lesson about modal interchange with all possibilities!

[@JensLarsen]

You're very welcome! To be honest I think modal interchange as a concept is too wide to really make sense so I probably won't make a video like that. In the end I am more of a functional harmony guy 😄

[@RP-zo6fx]

Excellent. Love the examples.

[@JensLarsen]

Thank you! :)

[@JeanYvesP]

Thanks! That is very valuable material!

[@JensLarsen]

Glad you think so!

[@JeanYvesP]

@@JensLarsen Of course, I'm still working on it after multiple evenings of replying it. And I still didn't get to the end 😞

[@hommedemystere]

In your discussion about the Neapolitan subdominant, there is an additional explanation based on the framework of modal interchange: the DbMaj7 could be considered to be borrowed from the C-phrygian mode.

[@conalh6173]

Desperado is one of the first songs I think of when iv minor sound is mentioned. I listened to the eagles a lot when I was younger.

[@JensLarsen]

I should know that, but I don't think I have ever heard it 🙂

[@Chilajuana]

Thanks for the Awesome Tutorial!!!!!!

[@JensLarsen]

Glad you like it!

[@Ari_M47]

Keith Jarrett - One day I’ll fly away Kenny Barron - Rain Both do I - iv Also loved your last example using bIIM7

[@JensLarsen]

Thank you very much Ari! 🙂

[@nervefunk]

I love the bVI and the bII sounds!

[@JensLarsen]

Join the club! 😀

[@nervefunk]

I'm in!

[@karthiksathian2931]

Very insightful, opening up the possibilities of a IVm chord. Beatles use the chord exceptionally well!

[@JensLarsen]

They certainly do 🙂 but where?

[@karthiksathian2931]

Devil in her heart is a good example.

[@Trombonology]

Yes, but the song was not a Lennon-McCartney or Harrison.

[@javiervalles9782]

Hadn't heard Night and Day before. Wow, what a tune!

[@JensLarsen]

Really? That's like my favourite standard (or at least in the top 10) such a great tune!

[@robpallot5058]

In the pre-chorus of Elton John's "Tiny Dancer". He uses Ab and Bb in a similar fashion to a backdoor 2-5-1

[@philmaz14]

Great lesson!

[@JensLarsen]

Glad you liked it!

[@merttalay9702]

My favourite change is mixolydianb6 to major like Beatles Dream theater style and misty standard

[@JensLarsen]

Those are great examples :)

[@MindsEyeVisualGuitarMethods]

I believe this 4 minor can be readily found in the song Trilogy, off of ELP's album with the same name.

[@mcquinn01]

Good example of ivm6 in `harmonic` pop music is 'one day i'll fly away' I notice ivm6 is often in second inversion when alternating with the tonic chord to give a constant tonic note in the bass. How about an altered dominant on scale degree III (in C : Fmaj9 . E7#9 . Cmaj7). Both E7#9 or E7#5#9 are rootless Bb13#11. Is it going too far to suggest V7b9sus (the final inversion of ivm69).

[@JensLarsen]

The E7 is only a IVm if it resolves to a tonic chord, not if it resolves as a dominant.

[@m.r.1921]

Donna Lee on bar ten to eleven has a IV-7 (bVII7) I resolution to Ab

[@zerosiii]

I just watched a video this morning from Signals Music Studio about this topic, which he made a couple of months back

[@JensLarsen]

Cool! Was it any good? 😁

[@zerosiii]

I mean yeah, same topic I guess :) he mentioned Radiohead as an example as well

[@JensLarsen]

Radiohead is the new way to learn music theory 😀

[@fynn1589]

Hey Jens! Thank you for the videos, I really learning alot from you! Two question: 1.Could you make another lesson on modern players like Lage lund?-I really liked the videos about the voicings! And maybe for you Q&A: 2. What do you think are the most melodic players(not only guiter players) in jazz?/How to archiev a melodic and motivic thinking while Improvising? Thanks and greetings!

[@JensLarsen]

You're very welcome! 🙂 I actually have a lot of lessons on modern devices that you find in the playing of people like Lage and Gilad. I just don't mention their name everything I use a Sus4.triad or an open arpeggio voicing. As for the other question, maybe I can turn that into a video. Though for practicing work on the skills needed for that so play solos moving motifs and doing lots of call and response so that your lines connect across the song.

[@RisikoAO]

great lesson, thx

[@JensLarsen]

You're very welcome! I am glad you like it! 🙂

[@MrJazzeman]

I believe the Cheers theme has a minor IV in it.

[@browndog412]

Have you heard “what’s your name” by a group called DeBarge? It goes from being in say C maj to A maj7. Interested to hear your thoughts on this. They have a lot of interesting chord progressions.

[@JensLarsen]

No, never heard of them or that song. Cmaj7 and Amaj7 is bIII and I in A major, so it is not super far out in any way.

[@browndog412]

@@JensLarsen I see, thank you. Try hearing the song sometime, it is maybe more of a modulation in this case. I am interested in borrowed chords thirds away since they are good for mixing rock and soul sounds.

[@JensLarsen]

@@browndog412 Ok, I can only tell so much from a YT comment :)

[@browndog412]

@@JensLarsen I found it, at Amaj7 A7 Dm7 Dm6 C. It seems to be modulation since it doesn’t really fit a scale for soloing. kzbin.info/www/bejne/kKOZgHV6Yqprmbs

[@cris_horizons]

Thanks I'm getting trouble understanding I to IVm I always think in the way of secundary dominant with Eb to get that Fm, but I try to understand the insta jump of I to IVm that cause that impact on Filmscore or flamenco music and always get trouble to define what is that kind of jump

[@FernandoSpalterMoretto]

Something that I see that many people disagree on: Modal Interchange you borrow chords from: a) Only the minor key or b) Any mode that shares the same root? One example could be that bII7M chord. In one way I can analyze it as a rearranging of the IVm, but I can analyze it as the bII7M that appears both in Locrian or Phrygian scales. Thoughts?

[@JensLarsen]

Actually I am not really a modal guy. I find the modal approach a bad description of harmony when it comes to most songs so I prefer functional harmony and there you can only borrow from other keys, so it is restricted. You can look at it like this: Dbmaj7 is well defined and used in songs beyond jazz, but modal interchange also includes Bbm7 and Ebm7 that both don't really appear in music in the key of C major. So to me the modal interchange as a whole is letting too many chords in and not a description of the music. The core of music theory should be to describe the music we have in my opinion. Don't you think so?

[@Zenzodiene]

AFAIK theoretically from every scale/mode that has the same root. The danger here is IMO that you could analyze everything as being modal interchange since we could just create our own scales and modes. But we must remember that in jazz standards consist mostly of functional harmony, so every chord has a function so to speak. To analyze a chord progression this way I would say there are different layers: First, just the diatonic chords in a key. Next are the secondary dominants and related iim7 chords. Then there are the tritones of these dom7 chords. Then there are passing chords. And finally there are modal interchange chords.

[@kaintuffin8678]

thanks Jens

[@JensLarsen]

Glad you like it 🙂

[@h248848]

Jens, it’s a great idea to use pop and rock songs as examples! The chorus in Smoke on the water is all power chords C5 Ab5 G5, so it’s hard to tell the chord qualities. But if you listen to the melody, then I think it’s really C Ab Gm. Or you could jazz it up as C7, AbMaj7, Gm7. I guess that’s a IV minor chord in G dorian?

[@JensLarsen]

Thank you Henry! You can easily hear that it's not a minor chord, just try to play Cm Abm Gm 🙂

[@JensLarsen]

And actually it's a C major because there's an E in the melody

[@pontuserickson89]

Very interesting video!

[@JensLarsen]

Thank you!

[@xxczerxx]

Hey Jens, I was just learning Everybody Dance by Chic just there, and it immediately struck me how it has a weird structure: cm7 - Bb sus 9/11 (voiced 1- 7- 9 -4 ) - C sus 9/11 (same voicing) AbMaj7 - A min b6 (voiced 1-octave-3-b6) C11 It kinda sounds like it resolves to Eb major, which would make it VI -V7 - VI7 IV-bVdim-V7 I get that the A diminished chord is a nice chromatic way to get to the V, but is there some stuff I'm missing there? Thought there might be some theory of interchange there. Also, in the case of the sus 9/11 chords, do they still serve a dominant function even though there's no major third relation? They sound great! I might actually be getting the key signature wrong. I just found it cool that such an iconic song had such cool harmony.

[@JensLarsen]

It's in Cm, an in minor you have all the chords from the different minor scales available. That is also what you have written out 🙂

[@chickenjones]

"Beatrice" by Sam Rivers :)

[@WoodyGamesUK]

Oasis "Don't Look Back In Anger", F then Fm (key of C).

[@JensLarsen]

Solid 🙂

[@andreasalustri9703]

Dear Jens, I understand the IVm concepts from a practical point of view and also if I check the sounds of the progressions..no problem. But I do not have a theoretical overview behind the IVm subdominant...perhaps you can suggest some article or book..? thanks for all the precious lessons!

[@JensLarsen]

Essentially it is just loweringnthe 3rd of the IV chord. There really isn't much else to it beyond what I go over in the video 🙂

[@belayetsabri4880]

Does heart of honey by chris cornell use melodic minor? could you explain what is going on in the song? Especially the melody of the vocal?

[@JensLarsen]

Why don't you just write it out? It might not be as difficult as you think, and you will probably learn a lot :)

[@belayetsabri4880]

@@JensLarsen okay, i will try.

[@ericgamliel8500]

What about if you're in a minor key? Are there chords borrowed from the major key? I get the impression that borrowing from parallel major key is less popular---outside of borrowing the dominant chord.

[@JensLarsen]

It happens, but you already have a lot available between natural, harmonic and melodic minor :)

[@ericgamliel8500]

@@JensLarsen I've watched this lesson over and over again. I must say, there is so much color hidden there in the minor IV to be uncovered. Understanding this is a major (no pun) leap forward in my progress.

[@Zenzodiene]

Hey Jens thanks for these amazing videos! First I have a pop tune (well a popular neo soul tune...) that uses a backdoor dominant: D'Angelo - Untitled (How does it feel). It goes D - Am7 - Gmaj7 - Bb9. So a I - vm - IV - bVII7. Great tune! BTW what scale would you use over these chords? Melodic minor I guess?

[@JensLarsen]

Well, Bb7 is no bVII in D? 🙂

[@Zenzodiene]

Jens Larsen Oops lol. Reading about music theory where they show all examples in the key of C made me do that :p. I ofcourse meant C9.

[@JensLarsen]

No worries 🙂 scale wise: D major, G major for Am7 and Gmaj7 and G melodic minor on C7

[@alilotfi7974]

Hey Jens, That was a great Video like Always but i was waiting for you to mention Six Half Diminished Chord as well as a Minor Subdominant chord ! For Example in " A Foggy Day " in Bar 6th where the FMaj7 goes to Dm7b5 , this is also a Minor Subdominant Chord, isn't it ?

[@JensLarsen]

Isn't that just a realbook mistake? I thought so at least 🙂

[@alilotfi7974]

@@JensLarsen what would the Correct one ?

[@JensLarsen]

@@alilotfi7974 Ab7 or D7allt

[@JensLarsen]

@@alilotfi7974 But since we are on the topic of minor subdominants, what is the most important note in a minor subdominant chord :)

[@alilotfi7974]

@@JensLarsen You mean VIm7b5 could be count as Minor Subdominant chord ???

[@rockstarjazzcat]

Tasty stuff! :)

[@JensLarsen]

Glad you like it! 🙂

[@marcelorogeriopereira7321]

...just a thought here...I would say that C on Smoke On The Water chorus has a major feel instead of minor...guitar goes a C5 chord, but the voice i think it nails an E note, what directs that into C major....or am I wrong???

[@JensLarsen]

That is completely true it is a C major in the chorus, I had forgotten about that when I made the video. But the song it self is G minor to me or is that not what you are saying?.

[@marcelorogeriopereira7321]

@@JensLarsen yap you are right, song in Gm, just the in the chorus has that C major.

[@piddlepond]

Not quite the same thing maybe, but check out the hook in Robin Trower’s “It’s Only Money”.

[@JensLarsen]

Ok, thanks! I will!

[@itertzakian]

Hey Jens, improvising yesterday I came across something I cannot explain. I combined a tonic minor 7th with a 2nd flat minor 6, and with a dominant 7 por the v chord. I mean, why does it sound good? 2nd degree flat usually means neapolitan subdominant, but in this case I think it isnt, given that it is a minor 6 chord. Am I wrong?

[@stevepaddy8874]

I seem to remember reading that the Beatles use the ivm chord in a few tunes.

[@JensLarsen]

Indeed! 🙂

[@stevepaddy8874]

Jens Larsen. Great lesson. Thanks for making it!

[@TheGothiczen]

Can I make a request? Can you use that handsome Yamaha SG hanging on the wall in the next video please? Thanks love ypur videos.

[@JensLarsen]

Maybe just check out some of these: kzbin.info/www/bejne/b6CkqXunYr9_ras

[@ObviouslyNotJake]

Why is the subdominant note A? I thought the subdominant was the 4th degree, F, while A would be the sixth.

[@JensLarsen]

Well, it is in combination with the F I guess? It's hard to define. F without the A and C can also be dominant, just like A can be tonic...

[@brennanlable]

can't be a major OR a minor IV chord without it's 3rd (A or Ab)

[@wiebenijenhuis1825]

In one of the minecraft ost's there is this fm6 C type thing

[@thijs199]

If I get this, I will consider patreon

[@thijs199]

Ok I get it, you derive from the PARALLEL minor

[@ggauche3465]

Beatles, at the end of "If I Fell"

[@JensLarsen]

Don't know that one, I will have to check it out!

[@adrienbidal9622]

Got a question. Well, I know the sub-dominant - > dominant cadence (II V or IV V) for a while, OK. But why bVI - > V works in minor. Playing a bVI7 is making a secondary dominant but what is the function of this chord with the major seventh? Is it used in major (VIm - > V)? :o

[@JensLarsen]

The function of a bVImaj7 is subdominant (and in fact minor subdominant) that is what I describe in this video right?

[@adrienbidal9622]

Maybe, I'm quite confuse because the subbdominant is not there in this chord

[@adrienbidal9622]

Except if we extend it to the 13th

[@JensLarsen]

A chord does not need the 4th step of the scale to be a subdominant. You can also just use your ears: It isn't dominant and it also isn't tonic so...

[@IgnazioCarbone]

The bVI maj7 chord is borrowed from the harmonization of the bVI degree of the natural minor scale. My question is: has it a subdominant function because it can be thought as a IV minor 9th chord starting from the third?

[@theokaenzig9549]

hi jens, thanks for your lessons, always great stuff! doesn‘t smoke on the water go to a very major 4th degree, even with the major third in the melody? (if i remember right?) and then he b2 almost feels like a fourth going to minor :) cheers and thanks again for your great work!

[@JensLarsen]

I am not sure, you think there is an E on the C chord? That's not what I remember :)

[@theokaenzig9549]

Jens Larsen yeah i just listened to it, it‘s a c major. but who cares :)

[@JensLarsen]

Yeah you're right it is in the melody :) Funny how that makes it even more IV IVm (in minor)

[@MrDotneck]

Ladybird?

[@JensLarsen]

Certainly! :)

[@pizzichelli]

bravo

[@JensLarsen]

Thank you Sandro! 🙂

[@JasonQuackenbushonGoogle]

No bIImaj7? That’s my favorite subdominant minor chord.

[@JensLarsen]

9:43?

[@JasonQuackenbushonGoogle]

Completely missed that segment.

[@JasonQuackenbushonGoogle]

But I think of it as a modal interchange chord with a strong Phrygian flavor that tends to resolve to the I-7. Works well for a surprising turnaround in a minor blues.

[@JensLarsen]

@@JasonQuackenbushonGoogle Sure, there are many ways to use it :)

[@alexandersmith6140]

Jens! You might be interested in this forum megathread on IV → IVm chord changes. guitarnuts2.proboards.com/thread/5147/maj-min-where-mind-etc

[@izzytwitch3646]

When he didn't resolve that Bb7 😭😭😭

[@smileswrappedingauze]

LOL 12:44

[@dougsmith6648]

No offense Jens but "Radio-head"..c'mon. You seem to be running out of ideas lately.

[@JensLarsen]

How is Radiohead running out of ideas 😁

[@MrVesperatu]

@jenslarsen do you have any videos about what to do over a minor6 chord. I've noticed they're closely related to half diminished chords. That I can play a b or f half diminished over a d half diminished or d minor 6. Like in April in Paris.

[@JensLarsen]

Try these: kzbin.info/www/bejne/eoi1cn2roLSaiqs