Modeling VS Sampling | Which Creates Better Digital Piano Sounds?

[@DiCelloPiano]

This was a great talk , thanks for doing this - As a pro-pianist , I did my last concert on a Steinway D and I'm still all for the progression of digital piano :) , I wouldn't use them in live settings unless something really changed, but for home / computer work like MIDI , recording MIDI , making teaching videos , or even just recording something that sounds real is really an excellent tool to be able to use ....

[@thegoodgeneral]

I have to admit at first I was impatient-I wanted a straight-forward answer to the question, I thought I knew better than to be forced to listen to a history lesson… but man I got so hooked on the discussion and I learned so much. Bravo, gentlemen.

[@georgehardisty8948]

I'm retired and started taking piano lessons a couple of years before I retired. Played trumpet in school, a little rythm guitar and played bass guitar in a local band back in the 70's. I enjoy your talks about pianos and music. I bought a CLP 675 about 1 1/2 years ago and like it a lot. One day I will make it sound good too. I am about 5 years along in my journey of learning piano and consider myself still a beginner.

[@GFhornet]

Best modeling piano: pianoteq 7: Stainwey D New York, U4 a la Monk and Petrof Mistral warm.

[@echochambers777]

Nice history lesson. You guys need to get a segment on the History channel or Discovery channel. Seriously! I suspect that over time all higher end digitals and keyboards will allow the user to select a sampled sound or a modelled sound as the default sound. There is no reason to make blanket comments that one is superior to the other. Why not welcome and enjoy both? Each person will have a sound that they prefer, just like we all prefer different types of music. And of course you can expand a keyboard's onboard sounds with some outstanding VSTs that continue to showcase awesome sounds themselves. The fact that we have so many options and those options can be adjusted to your hearts content is simply fantastic. Good stuff.

[@thomasbrown7980]

Thanks for a fascinating video. The explanation of how e pianos developed and digital sampling vs. modeling is very informative. I am a novice who only began taking piano lessons a year ago (at age 68) and am liking it enough after a year that I expect to continue doing it as long as I have left. I use a Yamaha p515 which I think sounds great, even though it really doesn’t approach my teacher’s 100 year old rebuilt Steinway grand (nor would I expect it to, despite the quality of the CFX and Bosendorfer instruments used for the samples). My interest was in finding a reliable, good sounding, but affordable instrument that would allow lots of practice, and the 515 does a fine job. How it would compare with a similar Kawai or a modeling piano like a similarly priced Roland, I don’t know, but I like to hear your reviews and explanations. Thanks!

[@damish141]

A very interesting topic, and I learned quite a bit today. Thanks for addressing the subject.

[@leaningtower73]

Great video! Thanks guys. I am a musucian but also a mixing and mastering engineer. Oh man, nowadays virtual analog synths like Diva, modeling pianos like Pianoteq, but also AI driven mastering services have come so far that really scares me

[@johnmanire3380]

pianoteq 7 all the way baby!!!

[@DonswatchingtheTube]

How do they model a sound? Is it started from pure mathematics? Could they record a sound and convert it into algorithms? How many different ways could modeling be achieved or do they all use the same, or standard mathematics (algorithms)?

[@Glee73]

its definitely all of what you said, as for the methods on how they do it, the basis is probably similar, but each company definitely have their own proprietary techniques. Modelling has been around for a long long time. my yamaha electone from the 80s, had FM synthesis, which had modelled synth sounds as well as modelled "real" instruments, and you could adjust things like the attack, decay, and many more for each sound... on top of that, you also had something called AWM sounds in the same keyboard, which used samples.. so its pretty impressive what they were doing already back in the day.

[@offaxisdude]

this is great.....thank you !!

[@markhomiak6966]

Fascinating topic. Just tell me who's the best. I'm going crazy. I was once considering Roland, but I'm down to Yamaha (CLP725 or 35) and Kawai (CN29 or 39).

[@nickmariotti4241]

Bottom line is it comes down to what sounds best to YOU. So no one can really tell you "who's the best" for you.

[@Alexhangman]

I like sampling more then modeling. For example i like "Production Voices - Production Grand 2 Platinum" more then "Pianoteq 8".

[@SBell1959]

What do you think of the Synchron Piano for having the Concert Grand of the Steinway, Yamaha, Bosendoerferr? Is there one that has the Petroff?

[@xiehe1477]

It is great to learn some new knowledge. such as the original sampling piano which combined the modelling timbre in the decay. or how difficult it is to live the grand piano in the open sound system then derived the invention of synthesis. The ear is so sensitive to capture any flaws in the modelling system, inharmonicity, beating, knocking and so on, really hard to simulate the physical piano. I wonder if it is possible to give any reference to this piece of history? many thanks.

[@southpark5555]

That was brilliant ----- I can relate to the 'munchkination effect'. After getting out of range -- such as too high ---- the pinging tin-like effect.

[@geoffk777]

Good Modeled pianos like Pianoteq are just as good as sampled pianos. In some ways they are better. A sampled piano will have two or three sounds per key, plus 128 MIDI volume levels. But small differences in volume will either give you no change in tone or an unexpectedly large change as you switch samples. By contrast, a modeled tone changes naturally and differently at each volume level, which can be more expressive. The polyphony can also be better, which is important for genersting resonant harmonies. That said, good sampled pianos like the CFX and Bosendorfer on the Montage are also excellent instruments.

[@MusicalWhiskey]

Good sampled piano libraries these days actually have at least 5 recorded velocities and 3 or 4 round robins with a plethora of mic positions.

[@rawl747]

Interesting topic and you all made some interesting points about how modern h/w sampling engines have some some PM functionality included. But honestly, I was hoping to get the answer to the question about which is superior now. Is there now a h/w synth or digital piano with true physical modeling synthesis that has surpassed the best sample based h/w synth engine available today? Or even equal? That is the $64,000 question I expected to hear you answer. And echoing other comments here, PianoTeq's PM emulations are at least as good and perhaps now even better than the best sampled s/w pianos out today, IMHO.

[@chrisr5364]

Do you think rolands sampling is a superior way to reproduce a piano sound compared to kawai, Yamaha?

[@gb3496]

No, not even close. Sampling sounds WAY better.

[@Biozene]

In some ways, yeah.

[@joytekb]

Nope .I do have Roland piano.

[@markhomiak6966]

Roland uses modeling, not sampling. That's what sets them apart.

[@chrisr5364]

@@markhomiak6966 can’t get any of them now , so it doesn’t matter anyway. My error with regards to modeling on the Rolands. Personally I like the kawai ca99 sample,

[@tuneunleashed]

Sample Pianos are much more detail and Modelling has much more features and playability is incredible so I do like the technology of Modelling but when it comes to sounds? Sample are taking over for now but Physical Modelling has the potential to take over some day.

[@MSM5500]

there is not much difference between a sample based piano run on a decent program engine and Pianoteq. The major problem arises when you have to play drills over and over for quite awhile the unrealistic nature of the modeled piano starts to be a big deal as it becomes just annoying.

[@tapeexperiments]

Would you elaborate on what you mean by the unrealistic nature of modeling annoying you? I’m not quite getting it. I do feel that way about sampled Pianos though…the bogus decay drives me crazy.😂

[@bighousemusic628]

Keyscape smokes everything

[@paulanderson7796]

6:37 - what is Pie Zo? It is pronounced "pee-et-zo".

[@nickmariotti4241]

YES. My ears screamed in pain when he said that!

[@paulanderson7796]

@@nickmariotti4241 these are all transducers anyway. Seems like he's not tremendously intelligent. Like suggesting that sneakers [SIC] are not shoes.

[@cashmerecat9269]

Patrick is so handsome. :)

[@joytekb]

Model is a robot but sample is a picture of acustic piano its feauters ,imperfections,micro craks,paint,type of wood and so on

[@RabbitConfirmed]

Damn.. I feel kinda bad having bought the Roland FP90X now.

[@bandar7891]

Why!?

[@RabbitConfirmed]

@@bandar7891 has modeling, but i think sampling sounds better imo

[@bandar7891]

@@RabbitConfirmed From what I heard I believe it sounds great with a Good feel of keys unless if you compared it to the sampling of Kawai's NV or Yamaha's Avant Grand which cost way more and not as portable as the FP-90X.

[@absitinvidia3948]

Sampling all the way. Keyscape just sounds perfect. And not popular oppiniob is that i like more workstations than real piano, because you can have bunch of sounds to play, in this day and age you can buy realy good workstation with beautifull sound, that have more pianos to play and other instruments and so on.

[@terrygray7465]

Modeling is catching up quickly. I own Keyscape and like it a lot, but Arturia just released their updated Piano V3 in the V Collection 9 and it's pretty damn good. Much better than the previous version. It loads faster, takes up less HD space and works well in a dense pop mix. If I were doing a solo piano recording, I'd reach for Keyscape, but in a pop or rock tune, very few would be able to tell the difference. I think modeling will eclipse sampling in the very near future. After all, a sample is a snapshot in time, captured in a certain space. Capture space and mic type becomes irrelevant with modeling. If the space and mics are modeled, then one can make it be whatever they want it to be - as long as the computer power is available to compute it, and without a doubt, computer power grows exponentially every year. At the end of the day, the entire V Collection takes up very little space on my laptop's internal HD. Keyscape (as good as it is), does not travel as well without lugging an external drive with. Same can be said for Kontakt and its massive sample libraries.

[@paulanderson7796]

Twenty minutes and not one single note played. Typical American video.

[@zumadale]

Pianoteq... but you MUST go through all the sampled pianos to appreciate it...unfortunately.

[@GFhornet]

So correct!

[@paulgrant8665]

No samples of the types of sounds. Kinda Like talking about sex instead of experiencing it

[@gb3496]

Sampled sound sounds WAY better... If you don't think so listen to any VSL piano VST or even Garritan Abbey Road CFX Concert Grand, etc...