Modes in the 16th and 17th centuries

[@johnbowlermusic]

"Now you know why you never really understood modes. Because... no one did." :D

[@valtteripennanen4043]

;D

[@ba4989]

Greek musicians understand the modes and use them in Byzantine music and in our Traditional music. The names Lydios Phrygios Dorios etc are names of ancient Greek cities. Some of these names are races of the ancient Greeks. We use the modes thousands of years before Christ. Mr. Elam says the methods have been used since the 9th century. This raises questions...

[@alexfetchina9416]

@@ba4989 These modes are named after the ones you are talking about but otherwise have almost nothing in common with them

[@BarbaraMarieLouise]

@@ba4989if I am not mistaken they rediscovered the modes in the 9th century but then didn’t transition them correctly like the Greeks always did. That’s why the Modes in the original Greek way are understood differently than in the Gregorianas and Renaissance time and nowadays in Modal Jazz. So it’s the same name but you need to add which way.

[@cecilgalvao5336]

I don’t waste my time at all with your lessons. The best explanations on mode I’ve ever come across. All your lessons are very good, but this is a special one . Thank you for your artistry🎶

[@AdamWilsonOrganist]

This is genuinely the best explanation on these modes I've come across. It's the first time I've really felt that it's been explained what characteristics the modes have, but WHY they have them!

[@LTGuitarist]

This was a fun watch! It sounds like Modal Theorists got carried away with the categorizing. It's a bit like how people argue about what genre a piece is while it never crosses the songwriter's mind.

[@Choral-Tenor]

By George, I think I got it! Brilliant, as ever 🙏

[@MegaSemi]

Great video! I am more confused about the subject after watching it,,,

[@jamesrossmusic6013]

Yes... This is way over my pay grade!

[@bigeteum]

modes were always a mistery for me. thanks for this seminal like video. i really have to say that the quality of this channel is exceptional!!!!

[@Ryan-wr8fx]

This KZbin channel is awesome, I cant believe I just discovered you today.

[@FernieCanto]

Modes in the Renaissance period: "transpositions, cadences, meaning of texts, different interpretations and systems, many theorists trying to make sense out of the system" Modes in 21st century KZbin: *Make your music ScArY using THIS awesome scale*

[@WarKeineAbsicht]

So way more fun to learn and use

[@tinibari456]

Chicken Fingers fun, maybe, but nothing special. It’s the difference between elementary school sports and the college or professional versions.

[@monscarmeli]

Yep, all intellectual consideration and discourse has been abandoned in favor of emotional titillation - welcome to modernity.

[@asukalangleysoryu6695]

Modes in the Renaissance period: a confusing web of wishy-washy mysticist bullshit that not even top scholars could agree on Modes in the 21st century: a well-defined, moderately easy to understand set of related scales, that have well-established use cases and instantly recognizeable sounds, allowing for near infinite creativity and freedom without getting bogged down in confusing, contradictory jargon Music is not about "systems" and never-ending pages of pseudo-intellectual soft science. Music is art, it's about creating things.

[@VOIP4ME]

​@asukalangleysoryu6695 100%, the modern modes are simple because we recognize them as what they are: a bunch of completely arbitrary ways of getting different kinds of sound out of an instrument, which you can try out in a composition as you see fit. The reason the old sources are so inconsistent and confusing, is these writers were looking for some kind of mathematical perfection that just isn't there.

[@ohnocreates]

This was incredibly captivating. Thank you for the clear and educational presentation! So well done.

[@busmusic3397]

This is an amazing explanation of the history of modes I spent hours looking at texts online trying to explain it but you did it flawlessly

[@kathleenschenley2676]

Thank you, Elam, for this incredible series of lessons. I have played early music on recorders and viols for nearly 4 decades, and it has brought me much joy. But I never had any theoretical lessons on the what and the why of the music I play. I have learned so much from your videos, and it has deepened my enjoyment of the pieces I play. I am so grateful!

[@evalonious]

Absolutely amazing and intriguing mini documentary! A must see on modes!

[@viviannecaragea5801]

AMAZING! The quality of this video is truly amazing..

[@stefanobertuol8660]

Great job, as usual. For those who are interested with modes in polyphony, I suggest this book: ‘The Modes of Classical Vocal Polyphony Described According to the Sources’ by Bernhard Meier. It is a cornerstone for this argument. Thanks Elam for your great job!!!

[@ngchinkweedavid5709]

Thank you Early Music Sources! Your videos have proven to be very helpful to aiding me and my fellow choristers in singing renaissance music in a more informed way - I cannot understate how important of a work this is that you guys are doing, and wish you all the best! Thank you once again :)

[@christopherbeecroft5850]

One of my favourite channels on KZbin. Thank you so much.

[@MrPisster]

I want to learn more about how they came up with cadence formulas. I love how you can have two voices weaving in and out of each other and landing on chords, then going away, and coming back. It's a type of music we don't seem to have composed anymore.

[@matcoddy6097]

its counterpoint, specifically renaissance modal counterpoint ( I believe Peter Schubert has a book all about that specific type of counterpoint) , But" Fux Gradus ad parnassum" ( from the 1700's), is considered a much greater book, as far as being Pedagogical, and informative, and coherent, and takes influences from renaissance modal counterpoint, & Palestrina, etc., while being the book (Fux's) that people conform to when it comes to counterpoint from then, to modern day. In other words, go with Fux's to learn everything, and schubert's later for analysis of that specific style of renaissance modal counterpoint.

[@Diserpier]

Elam !! Wowwww Incredible video!!! This is really, really another level of explanation. Thank you very much! It was amazing!

[@lucasreccitelli846]

Hi, Early Music Sources! Thank you very much for this video, Elam. I'm delighted with the concise and friendly manner in which you deal with every topic in this channel. At this occasion, I've translated the English Subtitles into Spanish for one of my groups of students. If the spanish subtitles were any useful to you, I would manage to send you them, as a little and humble retribution for the huge work you've done here. Thank you, indeed!

[@EarlyMusicSources]

Thanks Lucas. If you'd add your translation on this link, everyone could enjoy it: kzbin.info_video?v=lyq48eybjZw&ref=share Let me know if you need any technical support on this. Thanks! Elam

[@lucasreccitelli846]

Done! I didn't knew that possibility of collaboration. Thanks

[@EarlyMusicSources]

Thanks! it's published now

[@samuelefraizzoli1070]

Great channel! So glad to have found such a precious source. It would be very interesting to talk about modes' influence on later, tonal music, especially in XIX and XX century. Thanks again. Samuele

[@hei7586]

After watching a lot of your videos and this one at least for the third time, I begin to understand why I don't understand... and finding a little bit of understanding as well. Thank you very much for your work!

[@picksalot1]

Very interesting history of the modes and how composers thought about them, including the inconsistencies. It is no wonder that modes still provide a challenge to this day, compounded by modes derived from various scaled degrees, like the modes of the Harmonic Minor scale. These provide a much wider palette of Keys, and harmonic possibilities, but come at the price of the difficulties in understanding and using them. The content on this Channel is first rate, beautifully presented and narrated. Subscribed - Thanks.

[@beatrizarias5376]

The best explanation ever about the modes.

[@karlbarocka793]

Thank you so much for this wonderful Presentation!

[@ox609]

I got so many questions but anyway... basically you give us a modal counterpoint class. simply amazing!!!! Thank you so much!!!

[@fanti47]

Thank you guys, you are doing a very helpful job!

[@fredhoupt4078]

Kudos. This is by far the clearest explanations of modes I have ever heard. I have recently had deep conversations with an Orthodox Rabbi friend and we were guessing what ancient Jewish modal music might have sounded like? For example, we have now lost the oral tradition of how to sing or chant Tehillim. We can only guess what they sounded like when sung. There is some consideration to the interaction of sacred Jewish tunes from the Second Temple time as it was picked up by both Greeks and Romans and in the case of early Christian music, it is considered highly probable that some plain chant had Jewish liturgical tunes as sources. That particular subject greatly interests me. I really enjoy your musical essays.

[@alistairkirk3264]

Thank you so much. This topic has always completely confused me and now, at last, I'm a little bit less confused! (I might just watch it a couple more times though to make sure!)

[@alistairkirk3264]

Ps. I await your future video on mensural proportions with a combination of excitement and fear!

[@kennethhymes9734]

I love your channel. And your essay here, in its context, is great. I do not misunderstand the specificity of your title, you are addressing a period... but given the way you frame the subject, how you state the origin of modes, I would like to suggest, as I am confident you know, that there is a broader lens on the subject which takes in folk traditions across Europe and beyond, and places/understands these schema in a wider range of social and musical contexts. The history extends in all directions of time and space, including appalachian scales which are one set of notes going up, another going down (not unlike the harmonic minor but from different roots), mergers of pentatonic and other modes in practice, bespoke modes, modes in highbrow music beyond the period considered here, modes in jazz and pretty much all twentieth century popular music, not to mention the curious history of that boiling down, the question of what exactly do black keys really mean... it is massive. And again, I adore your channel. You are amazing at what you do. It is specific and beautifully done. Modes, broadly speaking, are messy

[@GilbertoGuarino]

Perhaps one should conclude that all this confusion of theories is due to the fact that modes are actually linked to a fundamentally subjective state of mind, which would mean that the affects do prevail... Your channel is gorgeous. Congratulations.. to all of us!

[@eternafuentedeluzdivina3189]

Delicious channel! I've fallen in love!

[@louisrharmony]

SO GLAD FOR ONE OF THESE TO BE OUT AGAIN.

[@patlina59]

I thank you very much for this great vid. I was directed to your channel by Adam Neely. The one problem I have is the more you try to understand music the more you don't know. Cheer's

[@TheZenytram]

just invente your own music theory like those dudes.

[@alistairkewish651]

The explanation is magnificent and the modes never entirely disappeared -especially in the case of Irish music, where modulation out of a set key is virtually unheard of, something to do pitch of the instruments in use, perhaps?

[@GaloOrtizMusic]

Awesome!

[@coordinacionmusike2015]

Magnífico vídeo. Muchas gracias por compartir sus conocimientos. ¡Sigan produciendo nuevos vídeos, los seguiremos atentamente! Saludos desde Lima, Perú.

[@jlcrut3]

Awesome content and lucidity!

[@wilhelminemarialoe6455]

I love how practical you explain this theory in this video! Thank you for your effort and keep it up!

[@RicardoMarlowFlamenco]

It might help for folks confused to look at vihuela tab (transcribed into treble clef of course) from Spain mid 1500s. The reason is those dudes where reducing vocal polyphony into fretted chordal voicing and the tonal concepts appear more obvious. So a simple concept like Dorian called first tone, looks on paper like basic minor key stuff with occasional “Dorian” passing notes here and there, but not for that reason, simply due to like G major or Eminor chords appearing in otherwise D minor key. Then your hypo- even numbered modes (tones 2,4,6,8) have your plagal or half-cadences going on (plagal and half cadences basically sound the same). So you go Gm-D major in same concept as before (D minor key stuff) instead of A major to D. Meanwhile all kinds of chromatic passing notes can be going on.

[@FalcoPaul]

Excellent research and very useful!

[@HowlingUlf]

I have no idea how you got all that dry information into my head in such a mesmerizing and entertaining way, but when the video ended I just yelled at the screen: "NOOO😱! I want MORE!" 😎👍

[@janetcbass]

Very enlightening! It would be fun to have a bit more sound illustration, but I'm already so happy to have found this!

[@pvillez]

Excellent presentation, the conclusion made me laugh....and then came "Kind of Blue"

[@gerarkrimer]

Excelente como siempre!! Great video!! Thanks!

[@juanligorria8606]

there is some deep knowledge here. im glad to have found this channel

[@albertosanchezsantoyo5928]

Thank you so much! This was reaaaaally useful, thanks for the effort!

[@justlisa1599]

This was NOT a waste of time! Thank you. This is the most helpful information about modes I have ever heard. Knowing that the subject has always been a source of confusion explains a lot, or at least bolsters my belief that the berkley jazz sh&* can be dismissed or ignored unless I suddenly get the urge to solo over Giant Steps. : )

[@maxirizzi8133]

This is by far the most comprehensive video about modes I have ever seen. Thank you so much, Elam! I have a question regarding the rhytmic modes. You listed Pyrrhic as the VI mode but when I looked them up I found the Tribrach listed instead. Could you explain why? (I did a lot of Googling but could not find an explanation for this.) Thanks again for your wonderful and inspiring work!!

[@AlexRomanovGuitar]

Excellent video! Thank you!

[@mandarinlearner]

Shared to the SCA early Musicians FB site

[@joeowens6180]

Thanks for this about the modes. As a young man I used to sing a lot of Gregorian chant, which is, of course, based on the modes. The Benedictines of Solesmes (France) have preserved this modal system intact today, as they continually create new chants for new texts. They have done a prodigious amount of research, a lot of which is summarized in the Liber Usualis published in the 50's. We were made aware that certain modes were used to express certain emotions, just as the explanation above. I never realized then how lucky I was to be exposed to this whole era of music making.

[@alexmwesa]

Very good insight. New knowledge for me

[@robertehle1316]

The leading tone is the fifteenth partial in the harmonic series. It took a long time to find it. Once discovered, though, it took over and swept all before it. This ended the modes and introduced major and minor keys. Recitative with its constant leading tones became popular.

[@dylwhs]

Thank you, from me as a non musician, for explaining the jargon on modes.

[@EduardoFrigattiComposer]

Thank you very much!

[@Curdle7]

Awesome especially about the polyphonic pieces

[@daiaanwander5374]

great as always! thanks

[@Calcprof]

Modes have made a come back in jazz theory. In jazz theory each chord is associated with a mode. So C maj7 is associated with C major mode. D min 7 with D dorian, G7 with G mixolydian, etc.

[@MelodyChangDipABRSMCTABRSM]

Thanks for sharing all resources about mode. I know why I read more books I have more question in my mind now. Different people different explain. Thank you very much for combination and explain.

[@Astro-X]

This is fantastic content. I'm going to make a composition now.

[@TheFunofMusic]

Really fascinating! Do you have tips regarding how to distinguish modes when listening to early music and music in general?

[@electric7487]

Here is how I describe the various modes: Ionian = Major Dorian = Minor with raised 6th Phrygian = Minor with lowered 2nd Lydian = Major with raised 4th Mixolydian = Major with lowered 7th Aeolian = Minor Locrian = Minor with lowered 2nd and 5th

[@nickl4855]

Was modulation within a piece ever historically seen in this time period? For instance, in a ternary Kyrie setting, would there ever be a situation where the Kyrie verses where in aeolean and the Christe was in something like Dorian? Thank you again for all the work you put into these videos! They are extremely knowledgeable.

[@miguelroagutierrez8593]

Muchísimas gracias por este trabajo. Muy aclarador y con información verdaderamente útil. Te has ganado un subscriptor . Un fuertee abrazoo!!

[@giggianna]

Grazie, come sempre.

[@sjorsvanhens]

Finally someone explained what are tuoni!

[@gcastro]

Bravo! You are doing a terrific job with these videos. I teach a class on History of Western of Music Theory, and find your work extremely useful with my students. These are difficult subjects of study, but you make it very easy to grasp, and appealing. Great job on your sources, too. Thank you. Would you ever consider to produce a video on the subject of intonation formulas (noannoeane/noeagis) in Early plainchant?

[@alihaseltalab64]

Thanks a lot. Great video.

[@katbullar]

Fantastic!

[@drkarmakid]

The modes may be incoherent from a modern perspective, but if you study Arabic/Turkish maqam, which are probably distantly related to the Church Modes, it will become clear. Maqam modes are canned templates for producing music, often improvised. In the context of pre-written polyphonic pieces, they have limited value.

[@serseriherif9530]

True, although it is possible to add chords to makam based pieces as long as we are carefull not to use 'clashing voicings' with the microtonal notes (preferably not harmonize these notes with any other note than the root, 4th or 5th). Ofcourse this will 'change' the feeling of certain makams and we would need to be carefull not to use inappropriate colors of chords (for example minor in a makam with a major feel). However this is very subjective, but in my oppinion can lead to interesting results... for example check out the 'mahur saz semai' played by serhan yasdıman

[@abdllaabozhra349]

+Miran Öztürk My work is about that :)

[@tikkakoskenmannekiini6356]

I'm a European who has studied both European classical music as well as Indian classical music. It's amazing how much similarity there is between the Indian raga modes and the European modes. In fact they are pretty much the same in principle. I don't know why but it just is.

[@giotheproducer2476]

the Church modes come from ancient Greek theory. that probably comes from some more ancient culture (Egyptian, Sumeric, maybe) and Arabic probably has got similar roots -I have read something somewhere , I'm not totally sure, but a lot of ancient cultures seem to have modal "thinking" - even the "Octoechoes" (music theory system used in the Byzantine period in Syria and East europe ) is related in some way

[@MarekMichalakMusic]

Very nice and informative video. Thank you!

[@easter.bunny.6]

And this video is VERY helpful, thank you!

[@ramiroconi2080]

Amazing video!

[@spriteshownetworkkoc-3165]

5:45 Im interested in the transposition. If you add a flat to the key in the 2nd mode wouldnt that make d turn into a Dflat? Like can you explain that to me. What would the notes be if you use transposition on them?

[@pannonia77]

You don't add the flat to D, you add it to B making B flat out of B natural. So the scale will be D E F G (finalis) A Bflat C D.

[@danielwaitzman2118]

Thank you!

[@elizabethlau644]

💝💝💝 Learn so much today............ Thank you.

[@Jayvee4635]

Modern modes of Major in order circle of Fifths: Lydian Ionian (Major) Mixolydian Dorian Aeolian (Minor) Phrygian Locrian - the weirdest cousin

[@bigsanctions1142]

That ordering of the major scale modes is also special in that you can move up or down it by sharpening/flattening one degree at a time.

[@davidirving4781]

Congratulations on a brilliant video; your clarity and erudition are truly inspiring! May I ask who is the painter of the image of the last supper which you use towards the end?

[@EarlyMusicSources]

The painting is "The Wedding at Cana" (1563) by Paolo Veronese. See here in wikipedie: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wedding_at_Cana

[@KevinDaRoitBortoluzzi]

I really enjoyed it! Expecially the part about cadences: indeed, one of the most entertaining characteristics of Renaissance music is that there are cadences you are not aquainted to as a baroque-classical listener. I really thank you, and I leave a question for those who want to answer: what's your favourite mode? I vote... DORIAN!!!

[@pabloperezjauregui2109]

Gracias por tan tremendos vídeos. Felicidades!

[@4515970]

Excelente video, espero ver más así.

[@YoonKyeongChoi]

정말 고맙습니다

[@chalvarenga]

Vídeo maravilhoso! Parabéns e obrigada.

[@SydiusVideo]

Thanks!

[@eliemh]

THANK YOU SO MUCH

[@Lucius_Chiaraviglio]

Some of the plagal modes ended up being the same set of notes and in the same order (only transposed down an octave) as some of the authentic modes.

[@HansPeter-hx5dx]

Highly informational, and explains why we have in the german tonal system still H and B, and not B and B flat like the englisch system.

[@Tabu11211]

And here I thought there was 7. Dope af

[@alonzo4392]

beautifull as always, very usefull. Please, would you make a video about solmization and Gammaut, and its relation with modes (if any)? or can you give me some source to clarify the subject, both moder and old,? saludos de México

[@EarlyMusicSources]

we see what we can do!

[@gopalkambo5885]

A good source I have come across in relation to this topic is Joel Lester's book, 'Between modes and keys'.

[@momoruirui3518]

So, nobody says anything about the last picture? !!!! Your jokes are sofisticated, my man.

[@pslogge]

Συγχαρητηρια, κατατοπιστικο βιντεο.

[@lawrencetaylor4101]

Merci.

[@Baroquepassion]

I found this so interesting. I would like to know more about how the modes were used earlier, in the medieval period. And also how they related to more ancient church practice, like in the Greek east.

[@ba4989]

Modes have existed in Ancient Greece for thousands years. If you want to know more there are many videos on youtube. People in modern Greece are not at all confused with theories of modes. These sounds are the same as the Byzantine modes of music but also with our modern traditional music.

[@duality4y]

i really like the example at 9:30

[@tymime]

It's so weird how different Renaissance theory was from common practice theory. Their perception was very different.

[@tymime]

Chromaticism, weirdly enough, simplifies things a bit. Now any mode can start from any root.

[@johanvanangeren6150]

I read Marpurg and Fux and Kirberger but it still wasn't clear now it is a bit more clear although not much. It's mystery is also it's charm. Thanks.

[@Ana_crusis]

I'm going to have to listen to this video several times. very complicated... but interesting

[@spacevspitch4028]

Wow! So weird to hear how confusing it was in reality. The way we generally understand what we call modes today is so much simpler. Take a major scale structure and just set another one of the notes of the scale as the tonic. If D is the tonic it's Dorian, E makes it Phrygian, etc.) Yet there's this general idea that it was the same way back then. It's more like we've just appropriated the term "mode" more because it's SIMILAR in many ways to the renaissance but way oversimplified. I'll stick with the modern understanding 😂

[@alexandrepiret834]

That's a very very good job! That you for this video and all the others! I just notice that at 1:39, the fourth species of 4th is actually the same as the first in terms of inner intervals, so I guess is not really useful to designate it as a different species. At least, I mean one could imagine that 4 different kinds of species exist, but there are only 3. That was my little point. But anyways thank you and good job. Have success with your project!