The FIRE Movement Is Dead!! (What You Need to Know)

Is the FIRE movement officially dead? There are a few major problems with the FIRE movement, and we've noticed it moving in a different direction the last few years. Here's what you need to know about early retirement and why traditional FIRE may not be as popular anymore.
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[@frostedcornflakes]

I wanted FIRE so bad that in my mid 20s, I got super depressed for 4 years because i felt like i wasn’t getting anywhere closer to my goal. Once I got out of the slump, I realized I’m doing better than most of my peers and I’m currently on track for a successful retirement

[@Erin-rg3dw]

Curious - did you like what you were doing career-wise and in life? I think satisfaction in those areas can play a big part in this process.

[@frostedcornflakes]

@@Erin-rg3dw yeah. I loved my job. Still working the same job. I get paid decent. But it’s hard when you know you work hard but you see your goal and you’re still so far from it. I knew I couldn’t retire by 35-40 and I was very demotivated. I thought I was going nowhere

[@carolinecollins2441]

The first $100,000 is the hardest!

[@nwj03a]

@caroline That’s false, the first $100 lasting one month is the hardest… for normal people.

[@Priinsu]

​@@nwj03a 😂

[@Willi-w1q]

Biggest lesson i learnt in 2023 in the stock market is that nobody knows what is going to happen next, so practice some humility and low a strategy with a long term edge.

[@Vivianlaure4]

Nobody knows anything; You need to create your own process, manage risk, and stick to the plan, through thick or thin, While also continuously learning from mistakes and improving.

[@elviegoodness]

Uncertainty... it took me 5 years to stop trying to predict what bout to happen in market based on charts studying, cause you never know. not having a mentor cost me 5 years of pain I learn to go we’re the market is wanting to go and keep it simple with discipline.

[@Markphilip-r4i]

Could you kindly elaborate on the advisor's background and qualifications?

[@elviegoodness]

“NICOLE ANASTASIA PLUMLEE’’ is the licensed fiduciary I use. Just research the name. You’d find necessary details to work with a correspondence to set up an appointment.

[@Markphilip-r4i]

Just ran an online search on her name and came across her websiite; pretty well educated. thank you for sharing.

[@allisonmeyer4521]

Love the FIRE movement! Since I found it in 2016, I have used these concepts in my own life 1) FU money, 2) exiting active mutual funds for index funds, 3) mini retirement, 4) international geographic arbitrage, 5) Roth conversion ladder, and 6) coast FIRE/semi-retirement. There is so much more to it than how much you need to save to retire. I'm in the messy middle now with 3 young kids, and aggressive saving prior to kids gave my spouse and me so many more options now.

[@Jary3166]

What is international geographic arbitrage? Moving to a place with lower cost of living and/or state income tax + property tax?

[@allisonmeyer4521]

@@Jary3166 It's earning money in a high cost of living country and living/spending in a low cost of living country or countries. Super common example is US citizens who live on only Social Security in countries where they can live well on that amount. But remote/online work or temp work may allow this too.

[@Jary3166]

Thank you@@allisonmeyer4521 !

[@daheni8857]

For me FIRE is to work until 50 as an engineer, then pivot to working for a national park or something outdoor and low stress

[@dietbajablast5790]

That sounds perfect.

[@webbynater]

Why not just do that now?

[@bLd321]

@@webbynater Money.

[@webbynater]

@@bLd321 it’s just kind of funny how we choose to wait until 50 to do something we want to do.

[@bLd321]

@@webbynater it's a luxury to do in life what you want to do. Not everyone can afford that.

[@eddiemalvin]

I really appreciate how they acknowledged that the fundamentals in the FIRE movement have been around for decades. It's nothing new but the "branding" and discussion that have resurfaced are helping a lot.

[@cutehumor]

I've seen people say they retired early but start a business on KZbin making videos, blogging, or doing retire consulting. they just changed careers.

[@misspriss2482]

It's on their schedule and those videos and blogs make them money while they're on vacation. Big difference.

[@lengerer]

​@@misspriss2482no difference, they changed career and pretend they are retired. Don't be a gullible sheep

[@tharius9758]

@@lengerercould they live off the income from their KZbin channels/whatever they do? Do they spend 40+ hours a week on those things? If not, their new “career” is just a hobby that makes them extra money. No different than someone retiring and doing woodworking for some extra cash in their free time.

[@bradleypowers3580]

@@lengerer There's a huge difference from two reasons. One, if they don't' NEED that income to live. Or two, if they can do it on their own time and schedule. 99% of people don't have the ability to work when they want or on what they want. That alone is an incredible difference and my main goal.

[@CalebInvests]

This is the best episode you guys have ever done. I was ready to fight thinking this was just clickbait to dunk on FIRE but this was very well presented. Those last few slides were absolutely fire no pun intended

[@Damathematician]

You guys really do a good job of stating your assumptions and forecasting a range of possibilities. Kudos for not assuming your audience is dumb and can handle a more numbers on the screen.

[@hinkhall5291]

Any movement that requires people to speed run their life is not bound to take for the masses. But the norm where people YOLO with their finances also isn’t ideal. Only thing that lasts for the masses is continuous, significant and steady actions towards your financial goals over a few decades.

[@christophdenner8878]

Why should the FIRE movement be dead? It's the number 1 escape from horrendous suffering in a 9 to 7 job that ruins our health. Boredem, lack of fulfillment, empty days after having achieved FIRE - all this is 500% better than wilting away in a fulltime job that ruins your mental and physical health.

[@terryhagan3442]

I retired 2 and a half years ago at 55 from a factory job working shifts. If I was ever to look around and think “what now” ( I haven’t), I would think I could be in nightshift tonight, then everything would feel ok.

[@jemakhan]

Retired at 39 for 18 months. Went back to work for 5 years.Retired again for 6 years. Went back to work and have now decided to be semi-retired at 59. I hope the retirement police don't catch me :-). To each his own but the FIRE movement has a lot of good values to teach everyone. Being FI young, is liberating and builds your confidence immensely.

[@Melanie9908]

Want to do FIRE…come join the military. 20 years to a pension plus matching funds on a TSP. Live below your means and invest the remainder into a brokerage to grow over the years and cover the gap between active duty retirement and drawing your TSP. Plus tuition assistance, GI Bill (you can pass to your kids), health care, extra allowance for housing and sustenance…it’s tough to beat the benefits package and the fact that you can FIRE in just 20 years…

[@julio1148]

I am new at personal finances/ financial planning. Love the content and education. Thank you so much!

[@99leadpencils]

I really like how this FIRE episode is structured. I recall giving some feedback on the math in the earlier episode that was based on offsetting income. You guys get it now 😊 also happy to see good alignment with my own calculations and projections.

[@CaBdosdos]

Crazy you'd need need over 1.4 million to live on 40k a year which isn't a good income for lower middle class or higher folks. Not counting for emergencies or turbulent changes in life.

[@derekhudson3462]

Really enjoyed this episode. One of the biggest living expenses of retiring prior to age 65 is health insurance. I’ve not seen the cost of health insurance go down, so if you’re planning to retire in your 40’s or 50’s, the cost of that at the time will be a big determining factor in your ability to retire early.

[@ManagingFI]

There are options here: 1. Leave the US, pay out of pocket for much cheaper healthcare. 2. Control your income, get on a subsidized ACA plan.

[@justsomerandomgirl]

I have health insurance from my husband ( retired govt), a 1200 month pension( I’m a teacher), and 420k in portfolio ( taxable, pre tax, and tax free). House not paid for ( owe 150k), husband has 53k a year govt pension , no debt. Husband has 730k in portfolio too. I am 59, I am retiring in June. I will substitute teach some. How am I doing? Thanks - I like your channel

[@vincentslusser9205]

Food for thought for sure!

[@jessepotter365]

I considered FIRE, but honestly don't want to sit around my house all day doing nothing or worse, wanting to do things and constantly worry about my long-term money.

[@wengers111]

I think it's good to keep in mind the portfolio distribution that was used in the Trinity study. Having more stocks with hogher returns did better. But you do have to be able to withstand the down periods.

[@smileyspoon1]

You just need FI. RE is optional. Don’t have get too fixated on the retirement part. My current goal is to keep working but also withdraw just the dividend at age 59.5. That way you get the more desirable tax treatment, can go on vacations when you are relatively young but keep your nest egg growing.

[@CalmerThanYouAre1]

I wonder how many Ramsey disciples are watching this thinking, "I think I'll go with the 8% withdrawal rate Dave recommends, thanks!" 8% may be a little high, but with a 2.75% withdrawal rate, there are going to be some TMGS FIRE people out there wondering what to do with $10M in their 80s! 😂 And possibly mad when they realize they could have FIREd or FINEd a decade earlier and enjoyed life a good deal more.

[@IFearlessINinja]

I think the people with $10m will be perfectly happy not being a homeless 8%'er lol. They have $10m after all

[@AlexFlavell]

This video is MONEY!! Great information! 🙏

[@natdia369]

This was such a great episode!!

[@Radbrad869]

I am a software engineer and make decent money, saving 50% of my income. That said I really want to be a paramedic, I just don’t want to live on a paramedic salary. So if I keep doing what I am doing , around 45 I will have enough in after tax accounts to let me live a lavish lifestyle while working part time as a paramedic until I am 59.5 where my retirement accounts can carry me home.

[@cc-dd8ip]

It is always irritating when you talk divorce as far as being alone but not death. Many are alone because their spouse dies.

[@monohydrate2]

You guys know your stuff. I graduated with a high paying job at age 36 making $300k per year. I'm now 40 with net worth of $500k. Aiming for $3m net worth by age 50 and switch to working 20 hours per week part time.. Yearly expenses are $72k and saving about $172k per year (includes pre and post tax).

[@AOSRoyal]

One of the best episodes. Lot of great information and thought provoking questions.

[@coreydaley2179]

People taking title too serious, it’s just rebranding. I echo the statement of money guys it’s about what fills in the chapter of your life after financial independence

[@DrAlexStrahle]

With the numbers, was inflation calculated and how many years expected for those dollars to last?

[@allisonmeyer4521]

Yes, inflation is included in the numbers they showed. And it lasts until you die. 😊

[@xavier_lucas]

Bo is the guy! I'm 44. I enjoyed this content, although I have been watching less yt and doing more indepth research. My retirement contributions are not making my 401k any better, should I buy popular index funds in a brokerage account, what is a better alternative to outperform and rebuild my retirement?

[@Javier_Rodri]

My suggestion to any investor old or new is to get a mentor and don’t just go buying stocks without proper considerations. Most of what is pumped out by the media is what most KZbin ‘fin-entertainers’ churn out to you as fear uncertainty and doubt.

[@FranciszekPawal]

@Javier_Rodri agreed. That and reading some basic principles laid out in books like The Intelligent Investor by Benjamin Graham. There are also good KZbinrs out there like Felix, Graham Stephan, Humphrey Yang and a few others, but generally you are right.

[@_davidturner]

Its unclear which stocks and sectors will lead the market in the next uptrend. Stay away from the stock market if you do not have guidance from a plannner and investment strategist. My finances have been in order since I got a wealth planner like Monica with a 600 B AUM working for me.

[@xavier_lucas]

Who is this monica you speak about? I have also been searching for a fin-adv who can direct us on where the economy is headed new year. I don’t live in a big city.

[@_davidturner]

32:02 Monica Mary Strigle just do your own research you’d find details. Kid you not I made a 218% gain since began rebalancing as many times as supervised in 18 months. The market isn’t so bad if you know where to look.

[@Lucky008aau]

37:00 I'm 40, on track for FINE at 53, saving 25%. Then, I'm going to go work part-time for people like these guys.

[@desiv1170]

An area to be a bit cautious about here is if you are planning on that job/endeavor income... I've seen people talking about it, where they are saying they will still work, just less... Which is great... IF you can... But you will be older... If you are counting on that extra income, will the jobs you want be available and will they be wanting to hire 40+ people for them... Or will you be healthy enough to do it? Life happens. As long as it is something where you don't "need" the money, then great. But I would be really questioning if your plan expects income from those post retirement jobs.

[@OhWell0]

I was saving 50% of my income for a few years there. Honestly, an on-time retirement is the new early retirement. Good news, I maxxed out my IRA and bought a house with that 50% savings rate.

[@17h127]

Dead? Wut? But I've been FIRE since I started babysitting at 12. Been financially independent since my late 20s. And I picked out my FU date already. No way it's dead. I don't ever want to have to work another day ever. Already put years of sacrifice into FIRE. This better be click bait.

[@CaBdosdos]

As long as you've done the math you know you're good. But it's hard to get new people on board in mass giving the high living cost and stagnant wages.

[@dimplesd8931]

The retire early part is only exciting when you’re young. Meaningful work keeps you engaged and it can’t just “volunteering”. If you don’t need the money start a meaningful non profit and work hard at making a difference. Get involved in local politics and change your community for the better. Also, healthcare is no joke. You wanna carry your private island with you everywhere you go? Retire in your 30’s and pay for good healthcare for 30+ years. My employer, a multinational, healthcare entity with 5000+ US employees, pays 80% of my healthcare. It is $8,000 a month and I still have a deductible and co-pay.

[@lucascolantoni8012]

I think as time has passed the RE makes sense. Normal retirement age has only gone up and will probably be over 70 by the time gen Z is close to retirement. And while productivity has skyrocketed, time spent working and wages have stayed stagnant. Corporations are gonna have to get with the time or our social security program needs to become comparable to first world countries lmao

[@yuritzivargas5601]

Does this adjust to inflation?

[@frenchwithelise]

We are in a recession and in an inflation crisis for many people we can't save at the same rate we used to. Maybe people working on Fire are just getting by.

[@mrfuldraw11]

Could you do that chart for 60 & 62 yrs old

[@rudolphteperberry3888]

I know I'm the oddball here but all this "maintain healthy relationships" thing doesn't seem to apply to me in terms of maximising happiness. I have a few good friends but I've always been an introvert, spend a lot of time (but not all!) alone, and travelled a lot alone, but never in my life felt lonely. Retired a few months ago age 37 on a pretty average salary until then. As soon as my house is sold I'll be setting off budget travelling indefinitely, forecasting my investments to grow faster than I spend them so that I can still have a more comfortable, typical retirement in the future. Worst case scenario I'll return to work one day but by then it will be in a lower paying job that I enjoy more just to top up my investment income. Point is, the things that make the "average" person happy definitely don't make everyone happy. You could argue that an "average person" doesn't even exist!

[@noahclay8632]

I'm in my mid-20s in the next three or four years I plan on buying a house should I put it in a separate account or continue to max out my roth and then take the down payment from there.

[@ShawnPatton-rm2hv]

What are life changing things that can negatively impact early retirement in your 40s-50s? I retired from the Navy after 26.5 years, days before my 45th birthday and I just turned 51 a few weeks ago. We’ve been married for 23 years and have three teenage daughters.

[@laundrygoddess4]

Divorce. Illness and disability. Parents needing support.

[@ShawnPatton-rm2hv]

@@laundrygoddess4 thanks ☺

[@LegDayLas]

Well that is the age range of the mid-life crisis. So I suppose you getting a fixation on some new expensive hobby at that range is something that can negatively impact you. Also that is the age range where your children should be starting college/careers. You could find yourself funding that, you could find yourself funding drug addiction/therapy for them. You could find they are a deadbeat and you need to fund their existence or abandon them. You could find yourself wanting to fund their business ventures. The list here could go on forever because having a kid that enters the work force has no end of unknowns you may want to assist with. Sure you can be a parent who thinks "Once your 18 you're on the street, no exceptions" but objectively, that makes you a shit parent. (In no way does that mean good parents enable poor behavior in children. They support them and work through those issues).

[@ShawnPatton-rm2hv]

@@LegDayLas thank you. I agree with your parenting statement.

[@shtormas]

I'm 38 in a well paid job, and it's honestly dismaying to listen to the hosts repeatedly go into long tangents about how we need to think what would give us purpose in retirement or that they now don't want to retire, so it may happen to us.... Guys, your job is to talk into a mic for a couple of hours and you are your own bosses. No wonder you don't want to retire. This is not what 99.9% of jobs are. Majority of people (me included) work for someone, do what they're told, and are never going to be as lucky as you were, so these comments sound out of touch, similar to influencers who say they work "hard", because they run errands all day... when their workday looks more like our weekends. My dad loved his job, and he was THRILLED to retire. My mom says she shudders remembering her job, and she was working in a high position at a bank. Like I've said: there's a vast chasm between people who are youtubers/influencers and people who have to actually WORK. As much as I like your advice and your videos, what you guys do is NOT work... it's a lucky draw of cards that your HOBBY pays your salary, and we all envy you... but yes, retirement is the only sliver of hope for a lot of us, and the concern "what will we do when we finally don't have to be slaves!" is not a really very worrying :)

[@christianscacchetti9178]

29 this year, going to be me pretty much whenever I decide to. Spent my graduation money on Bitcoin summer of 2013 for $90-something each. 1 BTC is now ~$50k

[@LegDayLas]

Nothing has changed, you have just learned what people doing FIRE actually think, and not just the clickbait understanding. FI is mandatory, RE is optional. The actual idea that FIRE ends in retirement is extremely rare. The vast majority of people trying FIRE plan to transition into a relaxed lifestyle where "do I have enough" is never a question they need to think about. To not work at all is extremely boring and not what FIRE wants, or has ever wanted. Frankly, it was just very poorly named and does not represent the values of the movement.

[@SuperYova]

I believe in the FI; to work if I want to, not if I have to.

[@iancarney7729]

How are people supposed to find their purpose in life without the time to do so? Your suggesting to delay retirement until you find your purpose?

[@same.7939]

I like this FINE concept!

[@viewera8038]

Why does the SWR assumption jump around so much?

[@kwokweng76]

I❤ this topic today

[@mikehawk9992]

Dude I love this show

[@tonzbal_88]

Most people I know who are in the FIRE movement leave the US once they've reached their goal, especially the ones with kids.

[@Spladoinkal]

FIRE is great but needs more money than what was originally thought. For instance: If you were to invest 4x what you need to live off of, you could live off of 25% of the interest while the account continues to grow fairly quickly even over inflation from reinvesting the other 75%. But just retiring with enough to live off of puts you in a bad spot due to inflation.

[@ordinaryhuman5645]

Inflation has also given investors much bigger account balances than expected. I thought it'd be 5 more years to approach 7 figure net worth than it actually took (13 years instead of 18). So yeah, everything costs more but that includes all of the wealth you'd be liquidating to pay for the early retirement.

[@70qq]

your comment about 25% and 75% makes no sense to me and i cant figure out what you mean ......the FIRE formula is generally save 25x what your annual expenses are , then you can live off of 4% annually , and inflation adjust it every year...but many say save 33x to be safer and have a lower safe withdrawl rate below 4% ........ but inflation is calculated in already

[@Spladoinkal]

@@70qq The 25% is the percentage of interest you live off of for you already-established investments. The 75% ensures that your investments continue to grow beyond inflation even while you're already living off of them. Living off the typical 4% withdrawal method is to just ensure that you have enough so you don't run out till the end of your life. As a Christian, I want to be able to live off of the Biblical principal of ensuring that I leave an inheritance, not just have enough for myself.

[@allardvanderstarre5238]

retitre? i like working, any case i am working creatively...which i also like i have some 7 year projects running

[@daheni8857]

Let's take the next endeavor at 50 for an example. If you want to cover 50K in todays dollars at 50 you would need 81K due to inflation. 81K / 0.0325 = 2.5M not 1.5M. I think you guys are great about getting me and others excited about finance BUT please factor into a conservative inflation of at least 2.5%.

[@dynomike1964]

Freedom 55 is dead freedom Forest Lawn is the new norm .

[@JohnTovar-ks8dp]

I always found retiring early in order to play, faintly disgusting. Finding a fulfilling way to continue contributing to society is much better.

[@transistor3115]

I love how all the analysts/corporate experts are concern trolling about what people will do if they retire too early. Dude I'll due whatever the fuck I want. No one is gonna miss their coworkers gtfo of here. These people are so out of touch and just want people to work until they die to feed the machine.

[@jacobside2656]

People who consider their coworkers as friends as going to be lonely. The guys you have Stockholm syndrome with are not your friends.

[@blktauna]

You people have some weird ideas about what "retirement" is. Its doing what you like, when you like and how you like. Some people need to get a life outside their jobs. That's wwhy they have bad retirement. They only know work. what a sad existence.

[@randomchannel323]

I don't think FIRE is dead it's just a nearly impossible goal for the average salary earner

[@JosephDickson]

It's not dead. Don't spread FUD.

[@mfbikle]

Retire to something not from something

[@acrobizer1238]

I like FISWAN. Either Frequently Investing or Financial Independence Sleep Well At Night

[@russellpalmer2112]

Thank you guys for not pulling a Graham Stephan

[@daddybgood]

Great show guys. Whats missing here for me is how to get through the next endeavour to being able to retire. For me, I think it will be going pat time at work which only requires me to suspend future retirement savings to maintain my lifestyle. So the math for me was can my current portfolio continue to grow enough under its own steam (no new savings) and still be sufficient for retirement.

[@HibiscusHigh]

Learned about FIRE in my mid-40s. Was way behind in my savings. Now I am into FIROT: Financial Independence Retire On Time 🙃

[@dylanstandridge3201]

The kind of person that is disciplined enough to do FIRE is typically not the kind of person that can find purpose in playing golf every day.

[@nwj03a]

They don’t have kids, they don’t have friends, they don’t drink, they don’t go on vacation, they won’t go to weddings. If you actually can do a real “FIRE”, you’re living a miserable early life to live a miserable later life. You will live alone your entire life. It’s honestly depressing.

[@hopoutside]

I love time alone. No kids. I’m happy. Have gotten into running after a health scare, and now enjoying retirement thru setting personal (physical) challenges. Had to find a purpose, that’s all. Not everyone is miserable…

[@blktauna]

@@hopoutside Speak it. I online game with folks from around the world now. Its awesome.

[@dragoncat5836]

@@nwj03a lol you're funny. I'm helping all my friends FIRE too. Went to a wedding in 2022, vacation (with friends!) in 2023. You're right, I don't drink though. Never enjoyed it all that much. Maybe some people have different ideas of what is enjoyable than you do? What a concept!

[@nwj03a]

@dragon My hyperbole went right over your head. The basic concept of FIRE (the catchy internet fad type) is exactly what I described. I’m going to live as bare bones as possible, I can’t enjoy a late because it’s $7 now, and that costs me $80 later. I will never enjoy a late, I won’t enjoy anything, because I have to save and cut everything. That’s the fad version of fire (it also assumes an enormous income very early). I’m making fun of that… not being fiscally responsible. If you live to not live, you’re never living. If you’re not throwing money at subscription you never use, or a car that is 20k more expensive than is necessary, then that’s just smart.

[@conggao5565]

Focus on FI, not necessarily the RE part.

[@gritynerd4509]

Someone in the movement suggested we change retire early to “recreational employment. FIRE lives!

[@conggao5565]

@@gritynerd4509 this is a good one! 😊

[@supermills03]

FIWF

[@ktburger659]

@@gritynerd4509”recreational employment” is so much more appealing to me! Thanks for sharing

[@aightm8]

​@@gritynerd4509barista fire

[@saxassoon]

I think for most people, FIRE can be a useful tool to keep you ahead of where you actually need to be to retire on time. Because, to be honest, most people probably dont want to be retired for 40 to 50 years. However, the financial decisons that would put you on the track to retire that early, even if you dont reach those goals, will definitely set you up to be MUCH more comfortable retiring on time

[@tuttuttut7758]

I do 😂 Honestly Im never bored, but the key is proper income so I can still travel and do the stuff I like. But whats retiring in this sense. People will always do something. I dont know, for me its all about being able to make your own choices instead of having to drag yourself to a job you dont like.

[@Coastpsych_fi99]

I’d like to not need to work more that 3 days a week by my 40s, and hoping to get down to 4 days a week before that time. Plus a couple long holidays and flexibility on work.

[@tuttuttut7758]

@@Coastpsych_fi99 Cut back to 32 hours when I was around 34. Wouldnt want it any other way. Looking at cutting it down to 28 hrs next year. Huzah

[@bhh8005]

What has happened is that before 20/1/21 there where people who could save and invest up to 75% of their income., can today with inflation only save and invest 50 to 60 %.

[@bradleypowers3580]

@@tuttuttut7758 Yep! Me too. Retirement simply means not having to work for financial reasons. It doesn't mean not having some kind of income or hobbies that bring you joy, purpose, and even money. My goal would be to work (or better put, make extra money) at my own pace, time, and leisure. Not that I never work again.

[@motobikemike914]

I love how every episode begins with Bo saying "Brian I AM SO EXCITED ABOUT THIS!" Love his enthusiasm. Need a t-shirt with him saying that.

[@andrewdiamond2697]

Definitely need a T Shirt for this.

[@produktas]

Thanks, cant unhear it now

[@shawnd5746]

Golden retriever

[@BiggMo]

(Brian’s Troll here) Boxers, print that on boxers.

[@calebmelton5989]

​@@andrewdiamond2697I'm a nerd. I would wear that.

[@loborocket]

Started my career as an Architect then shifted to software development and made a very good living. Looking at “retiring” early and going back to Architecture but not worried about how much $ I make doing it. Working on the projects I find interesting or challenging and turning away the projects that do not inspire me.

[@CraigandMandy1]

I retired at 55 two weeks ago. It's not dead for me!

[@kennethwers]

58 for me. 7 years ago and loving it. Enjoy you own time doing what you want to do. It's a third faze of life.

[@6speed818]

​@@kennethwerswhat did you invest in lol and how long

[@ordinaryhuman5645]

That's not too early. Maybe not dead, but at least asleep, maybe crippled.

[@LegDayLas]

Is 55 early retirement :/ hell, my job has me set up to receive my full retirement benefit at the age of 50. Retiring early from that would have me in my 40's. The way my finances are I am set to be able to retire early to mid 40's but at the moment at least, I plan to continue until 50 simply because the full retirement offered is very good and that would guarantee I have well over what I actually calculate needing. I was never great at math so can't hurt to over-correct lol.

[@eddiemalvin]

​@@LegDayLas I'm on-track to retire at 55 in a couple of years and I do not consider it "early" but rather "on-time". Unfortunately, FI-ROT doesn't exactly sound appealing.

[@xmochix604]

For us it’s FINANCIAL INDEPENDENCE RECREATIONAL EMPLOYMENT 💁🏻‍♀️get to do what we want. We’re 38 and will reach FIRE in 3-4 years and we’re freaking excited. 🎉🎉

[@Angela-ne9cy]

THIS RIGHT HERE!!!! That's the answer. I'm stealing this :) My goal is to be financially independent enough to find work I enjoy (rather than the rat race to hedge against being old and poor).

[@NotTehJon]

how on earth did you pull that off, I'd love to see the nuts and bolts to see if I can adjust things myself

[@xmochix604]

@@NotTehJonhi! We started investing in our late 20s. And I also invested in some Boeing and Tesla stocks and when they skyrocketed I sold them. After that it was all index funds only. Other than that nothing else, than just saving and investing. No inheritances or anything. I wish you much financial success in 2024! You got this!

[@LegDayLas]

I hate that FIRE stands for retire early when virtually none of the movement actually wants to retire early. It has always been about achieving a point where finances are no longer dependent on your work. You can do WHATEVER you want for work. If it makes money, cool, if it doesn't cool, the point is you are doing what you want because it makes you happy, not because it puts food on the table.

[@James-zy5lh]

I’m stealing the Recreational Employment bit 😂. Whenever I tell people about the FI/RE movement and my goals with it, I always have to mention that I only plan to “soft retire” and pursue work that’s more meaningful but might not produce a great paycheck. The real dream is to no longer need to worry about money and to get some time added back into our lives while pursuing passion projects.

[@MC-gj8fg]

There's a difference between frugal and cheap. The cheap person isn't willing to commit money regardless of the value proposition, and even to the point where the unwillingness to spend actually can cost them. Frugal people may be cautious in spending, but they aren't fearful of it, and they ultimately understand cost/benefit analysis.

[@TheFirstRealChewy]

Cheap = Lowest Price Frugal = Best Value

[@ArtQ21]

yes!!! 🔥 🔥 🔥

[@InDiamondArmor]

bingo@@TheFirstRealChewy

[@TheParkingLotGarage]

Great insight. Makes me realize that there’s a big difference between someone who becomes a millionaire (or just high net worth in general) by being cheap vs one who got there being frugal. I don’t think the cheap person ever finally feels the relief from financial independence.

[@digitsandfidgets]

For me FIRE is my plan IN CASE my husband or me become long term disabled or laid off and having a hard time getting another job as we age. This is our way as we are young to allow us to have peace in our future if things change outside of our control.

[@drew8235]

Maybe I'm just weird, but I would have ZERO issues being retired starting tomorrow. There are a billion films to watch, games to play, places to visit, people to meet. If you retire and don't know what to do with yourself, then that means that you made work your entire identity.

[@kentmedia]

I'm almost 40, and I'm really targeting just to be able to drop out of the corporate grind at age 50 and have options to do other things but still earn an income. Then at age 60 to be able to live the rest of my life not concerned about earning income at all. I don't really see myself "retiring" as sitting around not being productive for the rest of my life, just opening doors to choose to do things the way I'd like.

[@ordinaryhuman5645]

Whenever looking at married vs single stats, be sure to consider the previously married+divorced/widowed influence on those stats. Many of those single people ended up that way unintentionally or unwillingly, and they're more likely to have worse outcomes than people who opted for it.

[@genericchannel5899]

The FI comes before the RE for a good reason. One of the best messages the community drums into newbies is to build the life you want, then save for it. Do you have to retire when you hit your RE number? Nope. The best part about having FI money is that it converts at a 1:1 ratio to FU money. FU money is the gold at the end of the rainbow.

[@sstrongman1667]

I’m not retired, however I have been unemployed anywhere from 4-7 months 3 times now in 10 years due to the nature of my industry. I can get behind the idea that as long as you have someone to enjoy your time doing things with it is so much better. The first time, I had lots of friends and family that I was able to do things with. The second time was during Covid. The loneliness and boredom is real!!! Believe it or not online video games got me through it by giving me a community to connect with.

[@wpelfeta]

I used to be so into fire in my 20s. All I wanted was to quit working and go on a forever vacation. But now in my mid 30s, I'm starting to realize that I'm no longer the same person. I actually really love my job and it's a huge part of my identity. I have a lot of pride in what I do and as I get closer to retirement, I'm asking myself if I would be happy letting it go. And these days, the answer is no. Now, I think my plan is just Financial Independence without the early retirement.

[@Coastpsych_fi99]

That’s awesome! I hope to find work like that but should it not happy I’ll keep investing.

[@TheMillennialMint]

The thing I always get confused on about calculating this is, if you’re wanting to replace say $100K in annual living expenses in today’s dollars, do I also need to adjust for inflation as well? Because $100K annually in 2023 won’t be the same as $100K annually in 2048.

[@IFearlessINinja]

Yes and no. You should account for inflation, subtract anything like a house payment you might have handled already. And realistically 80% of that depending on your new tax situation and lifestyle in retirement

[@allisonmeyer4521]

The 4% rule they mentioned already factors in inflation, actually.

[@webcompanion]

You need to keep a portion of your portfolio in the stock market. I would consider an S&P Index fund for example. And then use the bucket strategy to keep at least 3 YEARS of expenses in safe assets (cash, treasuries, HYSA). Another couple years in bonds or income funds would be great. The rest in the index fund. That will keep your money growing with inflation. Then annually, you can refill your safe asset bucket unless we're in a recession. Otherwise, ride out the recession and refill the bucket when the market recovers.

[@ClickBeetleTV]

​@@allisonmeyer4521But only for 30 years, if you read the original study it's based on

[@joelcorley3478]

I did FIRE late in life. I started at 39 after divorcing a spendthrift spouse. I was already seeing health issues and I was panicked about not being able to have a comfortable retirement and potentially being forced to retire by the time I was 60. My goal was to retired some time between 55 and 60. I actually hit my number at 54 and retired at 56. By the time I retired I was suffering from a couple of significant health issues. Fortunately my mental facilities have not declined as much as I expected, but there has been other physical deterioration that has made doing many things difficult. But at least seeing these problems coming up has allowed me to be realistic about how much I really need to be comfortable in my old age.

[@NipItInTheBud100]

Something that I am always fight with in my mind is getting comfortable with a FIRE # that I can be confident with! How did you get to that level of confidence that you achieved the number you felt you needed to achieve?

[@joelcorley3478]

@@NipItInTheBud100 - It takes time to get comfortable with the idea that a certain amount is good enough. It took me several years going over my historical spending and my budget numbers trying to poke holes in them - to find my mistakes as you can't know what you don't know. It also takes time to get comfortable with the idea of living off your savings. I did that last bit by front-loading all my retirement (including backdoor and Mega-backdoor Roth) and HSA contributions in the first half of the year and living off of my taxable investments instead of a paycheck. The last few months of the year I put everything extra back into the market in taxable accounts and repeated it again each January. I collected a decade of historical spending data using Mint. This included mainly food, housing, insurance, basic utilities, and my employer's health insurance deductible. In my case was a bit less than $5,000/month my last couple of years before retiring. This was on the Seattle Eastside, so cost of living was pretty high, even if I did have a locked in mortgage on my home. I assumed the worse case was that I retired in-place. This did not include a budget for a new vehicle or for replacing major home repairs, but I did anticipate renovating my house after I retired, though I only included a somewhat fixed budget of $100K for that. Then I looked at what my employer subsidized - mostly they paid for very good health insurance, but they also provided a budget for certain activities such as my bicycling / bike commuting. I also spent time considering my entertainment and travel budget. Finally I took a hard look at what taxes could be in retirement given where I expected my tax deferred assets would grow to as a base case and what Social Security benefits would likely be, assuming no changes in the current law. Bear in mind that my Mint records didn't even include my Federal taxes, so I had to add something fairly nontrivial for that. With every additional budget item I tried to error on the conservative side and estimate high. In the end I rounded up my 2021 retirement budget to $100,000/year, a good 67% more than what Mint was showing as historical spending. That seemed reasonable because I'm getting older, but I was retiring in my mid-50s with not especially good health, so health-related expenses were going to a big chunk of that. Also I was expecting to pay a blended tax rate of at least 15% and I would likely have a marginal rate in the range of 25% for most of my retirement. Between just those two categories, $100,000 was actually starting to look almost optimistic, leaving me maybe $10-12,000/year for other things such as travel and entertainment. Current budget is $113,000/year. While this may seem like a lot, bear in mind that when I lived and worked in North Texas, I made an initial stab at a retirement budget of just $3,000/month or $36,000/year. This was just before the Great Recession and not long after I started pursuing FIRE. But this lacked an adequate buffer for a number of things such as taxes, healthcare, major repairs, travel, entertainment and vehicle replacement. If you adjust for inflation since I set that budget, we're talking about nearly $4,500/month or $54,000/year in today's dollars. And that's not adjusting for the COLA differences between the two locations. But at the time I had set my target FIRE number at $1.25M, so obviously I must have known deep down that $3,000/month wasn't going to cut it if I wanted to live well.

[@Pje3ski]

Start young, invest steadily, s&p, Nasdaq, one house, one spouse use common sense and you will most likely retire early.

[@Olivia-2019]

I just want financial independence so I can step back from my stressful job to something I enjoy but doesn’t pay great

[@benhmcd]

Sadly, the FIRE movement for Gen Z means retiring at 55 instead of 70...

[@70qq]

its all about your expenses and keeping them low...your expenses dont know what year you were born...i couldnt make money online from my bedroom in my teens and 20's like gen Z...some see a roadblock , some see a detour ...my daughter is 17 and has already maxed out a ROTH IRA two years in a row ...if she works past 40 , itll be doing whatever she chooses , because she chooses

[@happyappy19931]

That’s actually for everyone, not just Gen Z

[@L4uR3Nification]

I would LOVE to retire early, but I am more passionate about the financial independence part. FI would enable me to drop to part-time or less, and still do what I love until traditional retirement age.

[@dabe1971]

How to fill my time ? Easy - LEGO !

[@5daysofcoffee]

I get it. The RE part of FIRE is not good for the market. It’s less people working, buying stocks and consuming. I think you guys are more honest than any other prominent financial personalities I’ve seen, but I can’t get over that most financial personalities are starting to hand out easily counter points about retiring that have solutions. I turned on Suze Orman randomly flipping through the Tv and it seems her whole thing has pivoted to telling people not to retire, and she’s still “working” so they can too.

[@scrapinmaniac]

I agree with that the goal may not to be completely retire but that you have enough financial independence that you can do what fulfills you instead having to do something because you need the money. I like the ability to “walk away”. I retired with a pension at 58 that now I am going to work as a contractor because I like what I was doing but I don’t need to do that job because I have to.

[@Erin-rg3dw]

@@scrapinmaniac I can't remember the channel, btu one of the hosts works part time at a winery just because they love wine. They get to drink wine, talk about wine, and get a discount on it. Seems like a good deal to me

[@Zaerki]

Different strokes for different folks.

[@justthebrttrk]

I'm still locked into FIRE at 28. On track to hit my number by 34 or 35. A simple life is a good life. Wife and I have no interest in having kids and would rather have the option to switch careers or take extended periods of time off from work. Her family is halfway across the world and seeing them for only a couple weeks a year (and then not having any PTO to do anything else) is just not an option for us long term. I have endless hobbies and things I'd rather do than work. Hiking the Appalachian trail isn't really possible if you only get 2-4 weeks of PTO, for example, and that's something on our bucket list. I'd rather do that at 35 than 65. I disagree on the social aspects. Join a club. Find a hobby. Go to church. Join a climbing or CrossFit or some kind of gym with classes and socializing opportunities. Coworkers are often temporary and keeping professional relationships separate from personal relationships is often much better for your mental health anyways. And I've seen way too many stories of people getting backstabbed by coworkers who they thought would keep things to themselves but didn't. If you're retired and sitting around at home doing nothing all day you're doing FIRE wrong. The saying in the FIRE community goes: "build the life you want, then save for it." As you guys say, this is your WHY. Without a WHY, yes, FIRE is an empty pursuit. Your withdrawal rates are kind of egregious for the younger range of FIRE too. 2.5% for 35-year olds? Really? There has never been a 60 period in history where a 3% withdrawal rate has failed. Something like 95% of such retirements end up with 3-4x their initial inflation-adjusted portfolio value, to boot. We're targeting 3% to be conservative, but even that is low since we'll likely have SOME form of income. It's unlikely that most FIRE crowd people will never make another dollar their entire lives.

[@stuff4232]

honestly the life you described without kids sounds kinda boring and perfectly representrs why the FIRE movement is really only meant for people with dual income and no kids unless you're so rich but at that point you don't even need the Fire movement to retire early

[@justthebrttrk]

@@stuff4232we have 3 nieces and nephews that we can spend as much time with as we want. Kids aren't required to live a fulfilling life. My parents have friends who are in their 60s and child free and have lived perfectly fulfilled and interesting lives. As long as you have a "tribe" it's completely irrelevant whether or not you decide to start your own family.

[@justthebrttrk]

@@stuff4232 kids aren't necessary for a fulfilling life. I would be 100x more miserable with kids. We love visiting my family members with kids but are always relieved when we go back to our quiet home with cats. Plenty of my parents' older friends who were childfree live perfectly fulfilling and interesting lives.

[@akirebara]

@@stuff4232 LOL you have not met a lot of people who don't have kids then. Our lives are anything but boring because we don't have kids. We can do whatever we want, how we want it, go anywhere because we don't have kids. To each their own. Is that the only reason to have kids? So that life is not boring and there's a constant struggle for peace? Don't be such a natalist and just be happy for the person because they achieved their goals in life.

[@jackherbic6048]

I think there will be a lot of regret among dinks, also his wife says she doesn't want kids. One of my friend's parents was like that when they lived in CA and all of their friends had no kids. They moved to Texas and that changed they ended up having 5! I also know a 40 year old suddenly struck with baby fever having trouble having kids its very sad for her.

[@darylsmith9318]

I am working towards FIRE so that if AI makes my job obsolete I have something to fall back on and my family doesn’t become homeless. Plan is to reach FI and then get a more enjoyable job. Maybe work at the zoo or something.

[@clarkeysam]

I prefer to say FIRE is Financial Independence, Retire Earlier! My pension age should be 68, but if I retire at 60, then that's earlier.

[@LegDayLas]

Damn... IDK about you but that pension seems like a scam. 68 leaves almost no time to collect on it, and the average lifespan will for sure not be able to get back what was put in. My pension for example hits full yield 18 years sooner (granted mine is classed as high risk for injury). It's nice to still have a pension in this day and age I guess... But at that age, I would almost rather have a lump sum retirement account.

[@clarkeysam]

@@LegDayLas the US has one of the shortest life expectancies in the developed world. Approx 50% of people my age in my country will live beyond 90. Everyone who works in my country has the option of a pension and their employer must contribute to it by law.

[@LegDayLas]

@@clarkeysam You are correct I am looking at it from a US perspective, so perhaps that helps bridge the gap because yes we certainly do not have a great average lifespan thanks to our obesity and drug issues. Thanks for your insight.

[@clarkeysam]

@@LegDayLas I'm also probably significantly younger than most people who watch these videos.

[@aaron___6014]

I wasted my 20s with this crazy shit, skipped getting married, having kids and never traveled. My grandfather work until the day he died at 84. Just find something you want to do. Once you hit your goal you still wont be comfortable enough to retire.

[@Yourfatmom69]

Unpopular opinion but I entered FIRE because I want to do absolutely nothing. During COVID, I took a year and a half off doing nothing but passive activities and it mad me really happy. I think it just depends on the person since I'm not a very social, outdoorsy type. Give me internet and food and I don't mind staying in forever.

[@Austin-fc5gs]

Good to know @yourfatmom69

[@cchoi108]

I love it!!!!

[@unearnedinc]

Amen... nothing wrong with that.

[@rebeltheharem7028]

I'm actually on goal to FIRE when I'm 40. But, I actually like my current job, so I'm not likely to leave it anytime soon.

[@ds5651]

Working to replace your income from a paycheck to investments. That's FIRE

[@Azel247]

I'm at Coast FIRE for a retirement age of 50. If I keep saving, I can push that age up to 47. Once at Coast FI, I cut down my work to 30 hours a week. I'm still able to save 15%-25% of my income, or I can choose to be generous (treating friends to food, giving a large tip, buying new tech for family), or splurge on travel. Coast FI is the best way in my opinion.

[@mitchthornton1820]

No spouse no kids …

[@Azel247]

@@mitchthornton1820Incorrect