Mopar Water Pump Housing Part 2- Counterbore for Thermostat

[@musicbro8225]

You're a real asset Adam. No messing round with 'it should be right'. Very cool.

[@MikeWallace61]

Enjoyed this one as usual. Thought about you today. I’m in Pensacola visiting my daughter for a few days. Went out to the Aviation museum today. Looked at the birds a lot differently after watching you machinists for several years. Y’all are what brought these things to life. Hoping your videos are encouraging our youngsters to keep the innovation moving forward. I’m sure they are!

[@proberts34]

At the end of the video, seeing that thermostat seat with just a little pressure is very satisfying. It fits like a custom-built glove. Well done, Adam. Thanks for sharing. 👍

[@Doug_Edwards]

I was saying "use your 4-inch level", then you pulled it out. Made my day. Thanks Adam.

[@marley589]

Set the level on the bed and note the bubble position. Use this bubble position as a reference on machines that are not level. This works to achieve level easily within 0.002" of the bed

[@ShaneSchoenrock]

Thank you for showing the hiamer indicator and the process of using it. Much appreciated. Awesome video.

[@harlanmartin9964]

very cool! need to see pics of that car with this installed! nice

[@Rheasound]

my Hat off. for a thermostat housing that precision is way too much, but a machinist is always a machinist!!.

[@snowasian]

100% agree, especially when it's the customer telling you his own measurements. Nice work though! 👍

[@jwaterous224]

It’s almost like a mechanic with a machine shop! But the great thing is that you’re such a nice guy, Adam! Thanks for taking us along once again.

[@st3althyone]

That thermostat fits like a glove! Great job, Adam. Take care of yourself, and we’ll see you on the next one.

[@joewhitney4097]

Nice little custom fit job. looked good Adam. Nice work. Thanks for sharing.

[@mudnducs]

Nice job Adam! 👍

[@bcbloc02]

Looks good!

[@psblad2667]

My compliments for keeping your shop and machines so clean. Perfect and really professional!!

[@RobertGracie]

Another awesome video Adam, these are so insightful!

[@infostump8061]

I was screaming at the tv that there should be a rubber outer seal on the thermostat! Glad that got installed! Great video as always, ABOM.

[@aaronfritz7234]

I had the same thought.

[@jamesdavis8021]

That is why I hate doing automotive machine work for someone besides myself. I made some parts for my brother’s homebuilt airplanes. I actually gave him a Mitutoyo digital caliper under the condition that he throw away his plastic vernier caliper.

[@warbird099]

I love seeing the manual machining! I always pick up a good trick or two when i watch your videos! Thank you!

[@mikedyson7330]

Nice work Adam, thanks.

[@floridaflywheelersantiquee7578]

Thanks for sharing Adam

[@frfrpr]

Catching this show on Saturdays is and has been a favorite thing to do. Thanks for the video.

[@SkylerinAmarillo]

Sometimes I look at the youtube picture and link and think, "man, that looks dumb" but then I watch it anyway and realize it's a lot more interesting than I ever expected. Thanks Adam.

[@MikeBaxterABC]

11:15 That will make a NICE video!!... Looking forward that one!

[@ellieprice363]

Interesting job. Adam always uses the setup that works for him. Even if it takes a couple of tries.

[@jacksoncroyce6063]

It's great when a plan comes together

[@ronnydowdy7432]

😊 Good job. Thanks for sharing this project. Hopefully this will work perfectly.

[@sezumaga]

Love your channel man!

[@liamkelly8684]

It’s pure utter sh17 since the new shop

[@mynamehereforsure]

Then why you watchin​@@liamkelly8684

[@transmitterguy478]

Good job Adam!

[@MikeBaxterABC]

1:03 I had to modify my Chevy Step Van in the thermostat area, no machining b me, but I added spacer the goes UNDER the water neck ... it comes drilled and tapped for a standard temperature sender! :) (3/8" - 18 NPTF) on each side The new Throttle Body's Computer, (I installed Holley Sniper 2) needs it own Temperature sensor,. So I needed two ports. I also got imported from California a unusual aftermarket GM170 degree thermostat. they only come stock with 160°F or 180°F or 195°F .. see how it runs this winter now

[@bulletproofpepper2]

Thanks for sharing.

[@jonk6092]

Dit vakmanschap komt goed uit zo.

[@MikeBaxterABC]

31:06 VERY good! using off the shelf parts is always nice when possible, I note .015" Compression for that style of "square O-Ring", I will keep that in mind if I ever have to do one. I mentioned below I had to put a special spacer on the thermostat for my build (to have TWO thermostat senders) I used an oddball 170°F Thermostat, but they ARE available .... and a180° would work as well (plus I bought two of the 170°s) I actually LOOKED at the Hi-Flow ones, but could not find one in 170°F that would ship to Canada, and at this point with stock heads I do not really need the Hi-Flow yet..

[@Jeffreya.Hevner]

Great job Abomb79 !!!!!!! , Don’t let geniuses expertise bother you 😂

[@TedRoza]

G'day Adam. Excellent setup & machining, & .... then in end thermostat fitted. Looks like a Win, ... Win all the way to the end. Well done Ted

[@angelramos-2005]

An other good work down,Adam.Thank you.

[@grege2383]

Sucks he didn't have the actual thermostat to leave with you! Keep putting out the great content.

[@johnwilleford7715]

I like seeing the manual machining work.

[@cozmium]

I love the fact the back face to the thermostat is surely supposed to be perfectly 90 degrees angle, but Adam replicated the manufacturing error anyway for the sake of perfection with some shim.

[@charlesangell_bulmtl]

Surely seems like the time to grab a face mill 1ST

[@ydonl]

Yeah, but… I think the small part just connects to a floppy hose. It could be, like, *way* off and everything would still work fine.

[@jimfiles3307]

I would not bore this out until the correct thermostat was in hand. You need to oversize the bore to allow for heat expansion, otherwise the thermostat will bind up and cause overheating. Probably.030-.040 larger should work better.

[@brettbuck7362]

40 thousands!? How hot do you think it gets?

[@grntitan1]

You do realize this is more than likely already back with the customer some time ago.?

[@jimfiles3307]

I know that it’s not in the shop now but Adam should have waited for the correct thermostat or a known used one, then boil it in water and measure for the expansion.

[@mungtor]

The coefficient of expansion for steel over a 200F range is 0.002 at the high end. Pretty sure 0.030 clearance isn't needed.

[@charlesangell_bulmtl]

@@mungtor Thank you

[@lorinfinney2239]

Nice work..

[@tinom1102]

MOPAR OR NO CAR. Greetings from Germany ✌🏻

[@george-b3i-d2d]

Starrett needs to make a left handed digital caliper, in some cases would be easer to read and operate, and backwards

[@MotosAndMachines]

Great setups, and thanks for showing them. I'm about to finally use an angle plate I've had sitting in here for about 3 years, so great timing. Thanks. On the thermostat, so they have an O-ring in the housing stacked on the rubber seal on the thermostat? That rubber on rubber seems pretty odd. (I know, not your doing or problem). But again, thanks for this an all vids.

[@garyrobertson7778]

I didn’t realize that was the housing and not the whole water pump. Now what the engine builder wants makes sense

[@bradhuffjr777]

FWIW, This is an example of where Chevy and Mopar Water Neck and Thermostats are almost interchangeable. This machining is not required if the correct parts are used, but on a "restoration" where "stock appearing" is wanted, this machining is common.

[@tsmartin]

I am confused by the term "restoration". I could be wrong but I don't believe any 72 Charger came off the assembly line with a front engine plate. When I see "engine plate" I think race car.

[@bradhuffjr777]

​@tsmartin "restoring" a race car... maybe... A motor plate car will rattle your fillings out if you "street" drive it. Maybe it's a "show" car made to look like a race car... Custom vehicles are like going to a restaurant. The customer decides what they want instead of a chow line like in prison. Since NMCA shut down, there may be a trend to do more show and less go with "classic" drag cars becoming "pro street" style "show" cars. In summary, a "Chevy" style thermostat housing AKA water neck is being used. Thermostat is the same for both Mopar & Chevy.

[@garychaiken808]

Great job. Thank you 😊

[@garywaggoner1953]

nicely done sir ! searching out the Haimer 3 d indicator for my shop...

[@thomasward4505]

On all the big block Chryslers I have ever worked on the recess for the thermostat is in the top housing that you bolt on. And they come left hand right hand and straight and usually cost about less than $15 so I'm not sure why this guy is paying you to do this unless you're doing it for 20 bucks. Also most of the housings I use Point straight up so with a 90° radiator hose you can go in either direction anyway

[@bradhuffjr777]

Chevy had the recess on the intake. Mopar had the recess in the water neck. This mod is common when using a "Chevy" style water neck. Both use the same thermostat. Most universal AKA aftermarket and race parts are Chevy style. In summary, I agree with you. I just wanted to add some info for anyone who wanted to understand. Thanks

[@outsidescrewball]

enjoyed…..like the Hamiler…..damn, now I have to own one😂😂😂

[@gregoryaul2005]

Nice job Adam 👍

[@dougmottert2258]

You are the man . great job .

[@kevinroberts9394]

No need for faith. You machine what the customer wants and if it is wrong you charge them to fix it it's called business

[@donsturtevant2396]

If the angle stock are true parallels, then the water outlet machining he did earlier is 0.0010” off since the thermostat surface is factory

[@stevenslater2669]

Factory parts take advantage of all the tolerances allowed on the print. In fact, the automotive industry switched their dimension scheme from the old leader lines & arrows to Datum Line dimensioning in the early 1960s; then GDT (geometric dimensioning & tolerancing) in the 1980s. GDT features “bonus” tolerances to provide Manufacturing more leeway in producing parts. It took mid-career engineers, designers and manufacturing people a couple of years to become proficient at using and understanding the bonus tolerance aspects of GDT.

[@Drottninggatan2017]

And then comes a rubber hose on that, and a bit of twist of the 440 CID as it pushes down on the right hand side at the intersections.

[@SUMOCAT86]

He indicated both planes, copying the factory angle.

[@lifefromscratch2818]

The perfectionist in me knowing these engines pretty well just wants you to skim that whole face off flat instead of shimming to match the poor original tolerance.

[@EdwardLoftis]

😂 did you check the settings after you tightened the bolts

[@93jdmmike]

Nice work

[@NTGInnovations]

super cool! Is this your dad and grandpa in the last picture? Were they also machinists?

[@akfarmboy49]

Interesting to see the new criterion, boring heads I don’t like the top edge of square I like that’s what I always liked about criterion boring as they always were rounded corners so those newer, boring heads are cheapen them up by sharp corners

[@Ervan-l9v]

AHAH Just saw the follow up. It's all better now.

[@57Dalv]

Amazing!

[@tates11]

Perhaps use one angle plate and clamp on the large round flat face. Don't shim the face though it will damage it, pop the shim under the angle plate instead.

[@Peter_Riis_DK]

1:35 - Strange... Normally there's a rubber gasket mounted on the edge of a thermostat like that needing the recess to be a lot deeper. 30:45 - Ah! There you go.

[@bradywilliams2666]

Newer stuff has the rubber gasket. Old school stuff IE 80's and earlier do not. They usually just use a gasket.

[@Peter_Riis_DK]

@@bradywilliams2666 Yeah, no. It's quite the opposite. 😊

[@bradywilliams2666]

@@Peter_Riis_DK I have never had a rubber gasket on any old stuff. I mostly mess with chevy.

[@Peter_Riis_DK]

@@bradywilliams2666 That's why your engines are a long time to reach or never reaches normal operating temp. 😁

[@bradywilliams2666]

@@Peter_Riis_DK What?

[@EdwardLoftis]

Cool.

[@firesurfer]

I hope that ledge is big enough. Thermostats take quite a beating and it might fail because it got sucked in. You may wind up having to build up the inside by welding and recutting it, or preferably a different one.

[@AuthenticParrot]

Hello, great content as always !!! I do have one question from complete amateure- When you were mesuring your center with the 3D sensor - How you know that you mesure the Y edges in the middle of X ? sholdn't that opperation containd 4 messurments instead to be sure ? I hope my question make sense its kinda hard to explain

[@richardturk7162]

Why did the housing not have that ledge already? Every one I have purchased did.

[@mikebroom1866]

For a part mounts with a flexible hose, I would have just skimmed that .01 off the flange before making the counterbore for the thermostat. Already knew the faces were parallel.

[@jamestsmith4500]

I'm interested to see when everything is bolted into place on the engine is the thermostat going to move upwards any when coolant starts flowing. Causing the thermostat to have a gap in between the area that was machined and the thermostat. Could cause an over cooling issue until thermostat opens up.

[@elmarqo_3448]

That turned out great. How are the tools at the home shop doing?

[@CA10Z]

So you had to do a complete setup?.....again?

[@alewis8765]

I bought a Haimer 3D gauge a few years go. Never going back to the wiggler edge finder. I'm spoiled by luxury.

[@stevenrodwell6856]

It's my favourite tool

[@BedsitBob]

You could've indicated it level easier, and more precisely, by putting a long and wide parallel across the flange, and indicating along the top face of the parallel. The longer the parallel, the more precise the indicating would be, and you wouldn't have a large hole to traverse with the indicator.

[@marley589]

An indicator could have been rotated on the face like tramming the head. No need to move the table about.

[@Vytor01]

Where can I find Skosch scales? I have a Frogs Hair scale, but not a Skosch.

[@kensherwin4544]

It's on the back side of an RCH scale.

[@frankdoner8402]

Nice

[@stevebumstead9840]

Excellent video Adam!

[@jameswood9764]

Use the bottom of the quill to initially set the level of the housing?

[@marley589]

If you note the bubble position on the bed then the face can easily be set within a couple of thousandths.

[@Brian55126]

Or the side of the quil with a square

[@Brian55126]

Good enough for me

[@sticks7817]

I picked up one of those Haimer indicators back in the spring. Anyone else ever verify zero with it after it gets reinstalled in the mill? I have to adjust mine every single time, and it is not just a little off. Does not matter what chuck I use (drill chuck, any of 3 R8 collets, ER32 collet and chuck....). It is not rough handled either. Try it. Zero it out, remove it from your mill, remove and install what ever chuck or chuck/collet combo then put the Haimer back in, turn your mill on with a separate indicator on the probe. My spindle has 0 runout, and I have checked and rechecked my collets for runout. Not the problem.

[@x8rsrule]

The Haimer 3D sensor is metric ...right?...i was just wondering...not that it matters ...a lot...

[@kensherwin4544]

Zero inches and zero mm are the same thing. Round is round.

[@WaynesGarageTexas]

Towards the end of the video, there is a close-up still shot of the Haimer. On the face, it shows that each division is 0.0005" - therefore that one is imperial, not metric.

[@jmptaz]

Surprised you didn't put your stamp n it somewhere lol

[@GlenCychosz]

Do you have a optical micrometer?

[@avijitDrilling92]

👍👍👍

[@linuxranch]

Adam, if you had done this on the CNC, it looks like you could have probed the water passage hole in the casting and cut the counterbore using a small diameter end mill with a 3d surface as your counterbore. It seems like it would save a lot of set up time.

[@SUMOCAT86]

What do you mean? Same part setup time + tool setup + programming.

[@37yearsofanythingisenough39]

I have my Haimer in a dedicated tool holder because as it says in the instructions that came with it, you must mount an indicator on the table and using the 4 setscrews on the unit to zero the probe. You can’t just stick it in a collet or endmill holder and expect it to be accurate without doing so.

[@paul-g]

I'm not a machinist, so I may be asking a dumb question here. Let's say the holder was 20 thousandths off. The way it's used in this video to go from X left zero zero to X right zero zero, would that still not find an accurate X centre? My brain says the holder, so long as it's rigid, shouldn't influence this measurement. What am I missing?

[@tates11]

Put the water neck in the lathe and counterbore it.🤣.

[@devschlong]

I have a pretty minor job that I'd like to see if you would take on. I actually need the exact same thing done twice. I can't seem to find an email or way to contact you. I found a number for your shop online but it wasn't working.

[@John-u9c4n]

Adam I got all kinds of questions how do I get in touch with?

[@liamkelly8684]

He doesn’t reply to any comments

[@gregprevis34]

So i guess the OD of the thermostat was not 2.240”!

[@scott9751]

You've got a lot of faith in the customer to do this job without the actual thermostat. You must have a good history with him. EDIT: I just watched the ending. ROFL.

[@snappingbear]

Why do you need faith? The customer provides the measurements, you machine the target dimensions they provided. If it's not right it's on them,not you. One job becomes two with two separate charges. $Cha-jing$

[@paulsilva3346]

​@@snappingbearno one not even a bomb seems to be taken into account the fact that the thermostat will expand at a different rate than the aluminum and they need to have plus 10,000 to 20,000 on the OD of the thermostat to account for expansion 2:01

[@snappingbear]

@@paulsilva3346 Again, not Adam's problem. Regardless, I'm not sure I trust those expansion estimates. I suspect the seals will likely still hold under the low relative temperatures. We're talking a few hundred degrees, not extreme temperatures.

[@aaronfritz7234]

@@snappingbear a lot of people are terrible at giving dimensions. Then when it’s not right, they get upset and you have to do the job twice. At the end of the day nobody is happy. It a reoccurring theme in a job shop.

[@snappingbear]

@@aaronfritz7234 I don't mind. It's the client's fault. Your job is to hit the numbers on the "print" within the specified tolerances. If you do that, you've completed the job. Period. Changes or mistakes by the client become another job or are charged accordingly.

[@Ervan-l9v]

Hopefully the customer considered the tolerance of the manufactured part. There is no way this level of precision is required for a thermostat. But is does make an interesting video mostly considering the set up for a difficult job.

[@johnoflynn6788]

Excellent work, Adam. I would have got centre on attach part from bolt holes and oring seal and copied to pump side Jack

[@MotosAndMachines]

You absolutely can't assume those mounting holes correspond with the bore center. Usually close, but sometimes suprisingly far off. He did it just right.

[@simon-d-m]

The customer is always right... _except_ :-)

[@adriaanbooysen4504]

You have a cnc, it is easy to use the probe to get the center. You have to learn to write your own program without fusion 360. It is one block to machine that.

[@lawlawlo]

The man has to balance the content he is creating to please both the rabid manual machining fans and the CNC supremacists.

[@st3althyone]

@@lawlawloYeah, it’s a balancing act to rival a three-ring circus. 😂😂

[@onebadsavage26]

Why do so many Americans say " acrosst" ?There is no "t"

[@firesurfer]

It's local idiosyncratic phoneme usage. ''One explanation is that people say “acrosst” because of elision when the next word in the sentence starts with a “t” (like “the”). “Don’t go acrosst the road”. The words slide together and the “t” sound gets transferred to “across.” People may also associate across, a preposition or adverb, with the verb “to cross,” which has the past tense, crossed. Because of association, they can tack on a “ed” or “t” sound to “across” because it sounds familiar. He crossed the road. He went acrosst the road. Acrost is generally regarded as a colloquial pronunciation of “across.” It’s not technically correct, but it’s very common.''

[@charlesangell_bulmtl]

@@firesurfer You sure it' not archaic?😉

[@tumbleddry2887]

Blame William Thomas😉

[@normstaley9103]

fyi finding the center of an unmachined raw casting is not the correct way to do that. you need to work off of machined surfaces so that the counterbore will line up correctly with the mating part. All you have to work with are the screw holes so it requires a bit more indicating and some trig. but it would be the correct process.

[@marley589]

A method for finding the center of the hole in relation to the two tapped holes is to indicate one hole and zero the dro in both axes. Then, indicate the other hole and use the 1/2 function on both axes. X0,Y0 on the dro is then the center of the hole. I use cut-down shoulder bolts to indicate the center of tapped holes. To use this method, the part does not have to be trammed to any axis.

[@RAPXZibit]

it may be even easier - you need to have something tapered in your chuck and just insert it to no-so-round hole, it will be as close to center as possible without indicating stuff. in this application you don't need to reference from bolt holes etc since you inserting round part in that hole, not making new hole.

[@marley589]

@@RAPXZibit, that's a good call. My thoughts were that once the top was trammed in with a lever indicator, the indicator would remain in the chuck. If it was important to machine the counterbore central to the 2 holes, then use it as I posted earlier. Or if the hole center average needed to be found, then just indicate in each axis and split the difference.

[@MotosAndMachines]

You guys miss the point that those holes are not a good reference to the bore center to begin with. Also, that in this case he already put in way more precision than needed. There is nothing that requires concentricity here, but his method Did give the needed flatness for a good even seal squish. Done just right.

[@marley589]

@@MotosAndMachines The idea is when working from a raw casting the tapped holes are put in equally from the rough port bore. If this is repeated for the smaller mating part then the two ports will line up. Looking at the small part it seems the center port and clearance holes were both machined and a good assumption they are equidistant from the port. So I would machine the counterbore equidistant from the tapped holes to ensure the ports align.

[@floodo1]

"slow is pro" (-8

[@lenny5355]

No Car like a Mopar😮

[@melloman8210]

ah another part to the "we all knew this was a mill project from the beginning" project

[@melloman8210]

good grief.....34 minutes for a recess.

[@tsmartin]

@@melloman8210 What part of instructional videos do you not understand? Sure ... if he didn't want to record it and explain the process it could have been done in no time. Good grief ... nobody is forcing you to watch it.

[@marley589]

​@@melloman8210that does not include tramming in 2 angle plates level with each other. Which was not required.

[@OffAndOnTheRange]

With how small that waterneck is, you could have done the first op in the lathe as you tried first.

[@Da5idc]

If anyone is missing the heavy stuff, check HAL Heavy Machining. For example, a three foot boring bar taking 200 thou cuts

[@scooby969]

This cat doesn't do this for a living right just a hobby

[@nooneyouknowhere6148]

Third generation machinist. He does these videos for extra

[@tsmartin]

You must be first time viewer or you would know better.

[@nooneyouknowhere6148]

@@tsmartin I've been watching Adam Booth for years. He first started filming at his day job. In the machine shop.

[@scooby969]

@tsmartin well thanks for letting me know not to go to his shop

[@deakin2880]

high flow thermostat? hmm they want less cooling