Are Bullgryns TRASH now? | 10th Edition | Astra Militarum Tactics

[@buryitdeep]

The Priest really should be able to lead them.

[@WillGirling]

It was glorious when they could

[@TheUndeadslayer221]

Ogryn no like shouty. -All Ogryn types.

[@theblindbuildergrandminuti5648]

Always love these Bonky boys. If you don’t have abhumans in your armies fluff, the Bullgryns are great for war frame mech suit proxies.

[@CrimsonGuard1992]

I do not see it as a negative that it takes anti-tank weapons to bring down a bullgryn. The fact that my opponent will have to allocate AT weapons to reliably bring them down means they are not firing them on my more valuable tanks.

[@DeathSithe92]

What are you talking about? You shoot them with normal bolters and laugh as they fall over dead, the fact bullgryns are 4+ no matter what shield you give them removes the purpose of giving them anything BUT the bully shield, bullgryn are a joke of a unit now

[@erupendragon7376]

As I understand the rules you could take a mix of shields and allocate accordingly. Either way it’s just a fun unit.

[@andrewking8811]

Gimmie scions!

[@CatharsisChaser]

There are quite a few reasons why these bad boys are a staple in almost every well performing competitive slanted list much to the naysayers chagrin ...yes the loss of a 2+ save option sucks but they have gained so much more in the trade 1) they have an insanely tanky profile vs weapons that will realistically target them, even surpassing custodian guard in many relevant instances for 33% less points As a guard player you should know that almost all of your weapons are exceptional at clearing out enemy chaff (especially blast artillery) so you realistically shouldn't have to worry about massed s3-5 dmg 1 shots that can prove problematic (still wound on 5's and get 4++/6+++'d) vs brute shields as long as you keep them safe to contest objectives turn 2-3+ like they are supposed to A t6 3 wound with -1 dmg 4++ 6+++ they counter so many common anti tank/elite weapons that are even more represented in the meta thanks to toughness changes plasma equivalents at s7+ high ap dmg2... wounds on 3's saved on a 4 reduced to 1dmg melta equivalents are slightly better but wound on 3's still get blanked on 4's and even at half range still need a 2+to instakill with a chance to get spoiled with the fnp lascannons weep despite wounding on 2's... getting blanked 50% of the time and having to roll 3+ with a high chance to get fnp spoiled is feelsbad anything dmg 3... congrats you just doubled the amount you needed to kill dmg4... same as 3 50+% of the same time only big weakness is devastating wounds... who could have possibly predicted mortals wounds would be problematic... if only we had some previous data on this... but at least you have a pity fnp 2) they have very respectable melee profiles... 4 attacks usually hitting + wounding on 3's and kill a marine with each failed save and still wound almost all vehicles on a 5 still 3) they provide essential tanky midboard objective control that guard desperately lacks, infantry just don't cut it nowdays unless you skew heavily into it which lets you take much less dakka multiple 40mm bases clog up objectives quite well and they can even go to 2 oc if solar is within 24, very useful if your opponent manages to dive a 3-5 oc tank onto the objective

[@joeladkins1046]

Of course if someone is wasting a Lascannon on my Bullgryn then it ain't going into a tank or Sentinel

[@YOUR-BODY-MMY-CHOICE]

A min unit in Strategic reserves to come on and do secondary’s could be good. They will beat up the kind of units that they will meet doing the same thing like Exaction squads or the 3 man jump pack marines.

[@nklinef]

I would LOVE to see your take on Black Templars in 10th and maybe even a battle report of your updated BT horde!

[@MordianGlory]

This week's battle report is a black templar one :)

[@calebcook5928]

Bullgryns may be expensive but as a distraction I’d rather pay the 180 for them over a 20 man entirely for the 4+ invuln. In one game I’ve run with them they were able to stall out a 10 man terminator blob for and tank all of the attacks from a full 10 man powerfist death company + chaplain squad. It may just be how I’ve built my list but they are generally tough enough to survive a good amount of stuff and they hit hard enough people want them gone

[@crusadergaming7695]

the music and you talking about wounds at 12:20 sounded way to menacing

[@anthonysauls1446]

Long time Death Korps player (full forgeworld army except for some 3rd party stuff) and I just ordered some 3rd party death korps Ogryn. I can't wait to try out deep striking ogryn / bullgryn in with a hades breaching drill.

[@Proiteus]

My problem with Bullgryns is that a 4+ inv save is still a 4+ save, mass bolter fire or a charge from a large mob of Ork boys will bring them a squad of 3 easily. So far in this edition the 4+ inv and 6 FNP haven't made much of a difference as the high strength & AP weapons are directed at my tanks, in my most recent game Farsight and a squad of 3 all flamer battlesuits burnt a 6 mob of Bullgryn to a crisp. It makes me miss the synergy of the old Slab Shield taking small-arms fire on the 2+ and high AP on the 4+ inv.

[@TheTobaccoman]

I’d take slab shield , it couples so well with the damage reduction and feel no pain. For me the slab shield feels like leaning into the strengths of the model I’d say however that the brute shield isn’t an awful option. Maybe take some with slab and some with brute ? Beat of both worlds Banzai !! With the maul !

[@DeathSithe92]

You ALWAYS take the brute, there's literally no reason to take the slab shield if it's just a 4 up armor save, that's a 6+ or outright no save at all if anything decides to target them that has meaningful str, not only that but basic bolters now make them a 5+ armor save and can easily slaughter a whole squad of bullgryn with possibly a single round of shooting just due to A: volume of fire and B: the awful armor save, in my opinion Bullgryn got the axe this edition to try and force guard to buy ogryn

[@bringerebrethil6176]

I kitted mine with the grenade launchers because I am the kind of commander who would send my smaller guardsmen into the meat grinder and use the Ogryn and Bulgryn alive because they are so precious!! Besides in my area hoardy Necrons, tyranids and Aeldari.

[@CHESTNUT246]

making a battlebus list with a bunch of bullgryn and a stormlord

[@abigfish1620]

I have actually had great success with my Bullgryn pretty much every time i used them. That maul and Brute shield are S tier. I used them once to hold up a Void Dragon in combat for 3 turns. It clinched the game for me. They lost the combat but it locked down the Necrons most powerful unit for half the game.

[@dalesinclair869]

I was thinkimg of putting the bullgryns in a chimera but max is 12 models and Ogryns count as 3. just take 3 man squads, two melee and one grenadier squad on foot.

[@georgepatton93]

Too many points, too few wounds, even with 6 fnp and 4 plus inv, they are still very squishy, cherry on top they can't take order unless it is from lord solar, and he has more important targets to give orders to Edit: can to can't

[@ElTheJono]

can't*

[@jacob5700]

I think they're underrated, but they're best against melee armies or armies with one or two strong melee units. They can stall out Termies easy and if you have Leontus in range they'll hurt them back. Big melee Characters will beat them but they beat anything anyway and at 160 points for 6 it's not a huge loss. Brute Shield to make saves and Slab Shield to allocate wounds.

[@glukeFlywalker]

These guys I've found are good at being a unit that walks up and holds a "flank". Not doing any kind of flanking maneuver, but more acting like the rook of chess. Holding a side obj in no man land and punching anyone who tries to come close, while your army softens up their tougher units with guns.

[@YOUR-BODY-MMY-CHOICE]

People are bringing lists prepared for Custodes bricks and Knights. I can see Bullgrins getting caught in the crossfire.

[@TheKarofaar]

Is ok as a scout smasher, but an expensive one. Great for the space they block and the capability to move in the actual maps...but...180p

[@ProjectLazarus1982]

Shame. I don’t think they’re worth it. They were through 8th and 9th. The 4+ save from a 2+ is massive

[@yobgodababua1862]

Ok, so they can't take anti-tank and they aren't anti-tank... do they need to be?

[@birdmanjohnson]

I don't care if they're good, I'm still taking them.

[@desgildanphi8825]

They really need lord solar to be efficient

[@Dimitriterrorman]

for fucks sake even bulgryns have better inv that custodes now

[@Dimitriterrorman]

any guard army that doesnt have maximum ammount of heavy weapon squads and the even bigger heavy weapon squads isnt a guard army

[@kompatybilijny9348]

I just want to point out that to kill a slabshield bullgryn, you need to roll at least 5 on damage die with that lascannon and that's assuming he does not roll a single FNP. Bullgryn has a 52% chance of surviving a 5-1 damage shot and 20% chance of surviving a 6-1 damage shot. More often than not you need to deal flat 6 damage to kill one bullgryn. Slabshield might be better overall to be honest, especially considering that you are playing guard - enemy anti-tank has usually more valuable targets than some chonky boys.

[@NoName-lo9ym]

Again - why can't Commissars join Ogryns and Bullgryns? Woop de doo they may hit on a 2+ if they get Fix Bayonets but they need it to do any real damage to anything vaguely tough. And GW really nawsed the Slab Shield urgh.

[@ElTheJono]

this would make both commissars and ogryns/bullgryns just barely playable.

[@NoName-lo9ym]

@@ElTheJono 100% and why can't the Preachers join them too? Ogryns love a good sermon on the Big Golden Boi!

[@stonewall008]

@@ElTheJonoit’s actually frustrating just how ‘Almost there’ these units feel but they’ll never make that change

[@calronkeltaran493]

it is strange to see this stratline considered bad. they are basicly the old version of wraithblades from Eldar 9ed and they where considered a good unit. 4++ with 3W and -1 dmg is realy good. the offence is nice as well and they hit on 3+ by themselves.

[@ElTheJono]

they would be useful at 25 points. 30 is prohibitive.

[@ericmats4662]

I have always liked ogryns, think they are cool. And i think they look really good on paper. But every time i play them i feel like they underpreform. Dont know why.

[@stonewall008]

They’re basically just logistically unsound. They’re hard to deliver to the front line in an army not set up to support it but they’re also not cheap enough to work as sand bags. If we had a vehicle with assault ramp they could potentially be used as shock and awe - but then they’d just be rough riders in a sense.

[@UncleDaddyMatty]

Lol a good half range melta blast takes everything out

[@Jesyce86]

So... They are Bullygrins? 😏

[@venkelos6996]

Personally, I've never really liked the Ogryns or Bullgryns. While I feel they can serve a valid, even important, function, in an army that orherwise wouldn't have any units with better than S4, or T3, I usually feel like they don't do well enough, and in their failure, they also hold back the Guard from maybe getting other dedicated assault units. I've whined this before, and I'll do it again; now that Guard aren't really dividing the regiments, it eod be cool if each got two or three options. Cadians get Shock Troops and Kasrkin. Krieg could get Death Korp and another Rider option, for "fast attack". And then Catachan could have (better) Jungle Fighters, and then guerrilla assault troops. Their lore totally supports it, as they skulk around one of the most dangerous planets in space, and then kill the most dangerous prey with their bare hands, and big knives. If Bullgryns weren't a thing, I feel Catachan could have a sneaky, stealthy unit that could close with power knives, power fists, and other assault options, and play a role similar to Stroming Scorpions, or Howling Banshees, and yes, I know that those units aren't particularly great in tbe current anti-comvat meta, but still. As for how I'd use them, probably either as a protective unit, or cleanup. I don't see any good reason why they shouldn't be able to rove ahead of the gun line, and then wipe up what it fails to finish off. I wouldn't want to throw them into a whole squad of Chaos Marines, but feel that if the squad already took some damage from getting shot, say by forward-striding Catachan, or an artillery barrage/tank salvo, they should be expected to be the two of that one two punch, and finish of the stragglers. Then again, they should also be kitted with power fists, to make the most of their strength, like discount Terminators, and yet nope, si what do I know? I also wish that they were better with leaders, as Commissars, Priests, and orher buffing characters would, again, be good with them, but differing Toughness would probably make that worse than I am figuring. Okay, wall finished! 😅

[@hectorluis8102]

o7