More Engaging Turn-Based Combat in RPGs

[@fdslk1]

Just as some free information: The Shin Megami Tensei games have the social ability in random encounters years before undertale.

[@nesanort]

Negotiations need to stop being RNG

[@bubbleteacore]

@@nesanort In Persona 5 Royal, they're not. The game straight up shows you the personality type of the enemy and your navigator hints at how you should talk to them.

[@swwweee]

@@bubbleteacore that's makoto abilities. You must unlocked them before you can use it. You unlock the special abilities of your party deepen the relationship

[@halkon4412]

Although Toby has cited SMT as an influence, I don't think the social system in that series is at all comparable to Undertale's. Demon negotiation is more or less an afterthought, with little logic involved beyond guessing a demon/shadow's personality, then guessing which answers fit that personality. All of Undertale's interactions are hand-crafted, so they end up feeling more like actual puzzles that can solved, and are a much larger focus of the game.

[@itsdabenji9518]

The Mario and Luigi games are some of the most engaging rpgs I’ve ever played, I’m a little surprised they aren’t on your list

[@cafelo-o_0]

real.

[@DaniAzakura]

Just to add something, the Mother 3 combos hits are not tied to the enemies heartbeats but rather the rhythm of the soundtrack battle. You can put them to sleep to listen more easily to the rhythm, but you don't need to. Now, it's true that it's a hard thing to do if you are bad at rhythm games, but that's why it's optional :P Cool video!

[@Rioty1]

Yeah, that was a weird tangent. Like was the dude just not paying attention to the music playing the game???

[@Big_Dai]

@@Rioty1 Dude, I didn't even know there was a rhythm system hidden in the game's combat.. So it's better to know something existed than not at all, even if wrong.

[@thatonegaminglatias4345]

100th Like!

[@DaniAzakura]

@@thatonegaminglatias4345 I didn't even know this got so many likes... what ; w;

[@thatonegaminglatias4345]

@@DaniAzakura Mother 3 used to be one of my favourite games.

[@user-np2xl4qk4w]

Also, I would like to add Bravely default and it's brave/default system. It adds a lot of strategy to the game and makes gives you a really satisfying feeling when you find the just right opening to just rain hell on the enemy.

[@polkadi]

If you want another engaging RPG turn-based combat system, I do not hear enough about MegaMan Battle Network. It combines both Undertale and Chrono Trigger, as well as the element of card games, all together in one package where you have to decide your moves based on what abilities are on your deck. And if not, you can still move around the field to dodge enemy attacks, of which no two enemies will be the same. An experienced player can form a deck where they can successfully combo moves, while also being able to dodge any enemy attacks. It's such a unique system that no other game seems to have.

[@doom5895]

1: it came out before undertake and 2: its not even turn based.

[@CyberLink70]

If you liked Battle Network, try out One Step From Eden.

[@Big_Dai]

MORE! Please do more "interesting" mechanics or little details in RPG games that you've liked. My favorites, for example are : - The job system in Final Fantasy Tactics A2 (requiring learning skills from certain "classes" as requirements for changing jobs). - Or Tactics Ogre : Let us Cling Together, where you can shoot (arrows, guns? and magic) ANYWHERE on the map, and whoever gets in the way of it's path (which is normally shown, with specific skills) will be damaged.. friend or foe. - Although a small detail and not really a system, I REALLY love the Command menu of Shining Force, with 2 sprite animations for what it's basically a Fire Emblem game.

[@eduardorpg64]

What's the difference between the job system in FFT A2 and Final Fantasy Tactics Advance? You alss need to learn a number of skills from certain jobs to get access to new jobs in FFTA.

[@dongtrope]

I’m working on an rpg and could definitely use your help on mechanical things as you seem to know a lot about the rpg field

[@SnugglyTheCrow]

You're giving me way more credit than I am due, but sure why not?

[@dongtrope]

@@SnugglyTheCrow awesome, it’s late for me here so I’m going to sleep soon, but here’s my email: [e-mail] Thanks for agreeing to do this btw, It means a lot, I really want it to shape into something people will enjoy

[@arielcerecer142]

Idk if you have played them but... the press turn system used in SMT Nocturne and Digital Devil Saga is my top 1 favorite JRPG system. It rewards good grasp of the mechanics and punishes mistakes harshly. If you dont know it I would recommend 100%. Even if you dont like the story that much the mechanics are worth to analyze imo

[@RaneKaiser16]

Great video my dude, will be using this to make my own turnbased game better.

[@themuckamuck2533]

How's it going? I'm making my own as well, if you have any tips I might need, feel free to share!

[@canasnewell3089]

Grandia is a good example if this. It’s basically a souped uped version of chrono trigger.

[@MrVariant]

Too easy to cancel bosses or put them to sleep with nightmare ball in the sequel. Chrono trigger forces certain characters and tag tech moves are trial and error. Let alone magus sucks if you use haste, and Lavos forces you to have proper anti-debuff setup like slurp kiss (which heals more than those lame auras and recovers debuffs), triple haste helms, prismatic dress and that rainbow sword to 1 shot the 1st form to stall revivals. Still, I'm glad turn-based has had a lot of better stuff since the video. I like slice & dice or alphadia genesis 2 (overkill) as well as card based stuff like roguebook or misty battlefield. Balatro may kinda count too though aces & adventures has more variety/presentation than that and voice of cards (which is more card graphical styles like fore tales than playing card games). Citizens of earth and space has a lot to do too.

[@canasnewell3089]

@@MrVariant Yeah, Grandia 3 (and also Xtreme) was the main game that really shone a light on how good the combat could be. Grandia 1 and 2 are just too easy to be interesting gameplay wise (much like basically everything from the SNES era really)

[@MrVariant]

@canasnewell3089 yeah those were tougher. Just put up with the dialogue and xtreme's voice acting lol audioatrocities nooo it can't be was a classic on that site 🤣. Xtreme had good combination moves like legaia 2.

[@adachisans5664]

My favorite turn battle system is the Press Turn system from SMT and Persona

[@FrederickLlagas]

Sans:if you're planning to commit a genocide on king asgore's kingdom Buddy... You're gonna have a bad time

[@tommyhatcher3399]

Nostalgia's a funny thing. First RPG I played was Mystic Quest. Was years before I played my second. Can't help it, Mystic Quest is my favorite.

[@jonc1130]

I loved these combat systems. Adding more flare to a RP is needed. I wonder how the Final Fantasy 7 remake will use any turn based combat

[@readurasawamonster9782]

Jon C sad news, it wont

[@jamesalexander5559]

@@readurasawamonster9782 At least the combat Director for Kingdom Hearts 1 and 2 is the one handling FF7R's combat. Hopefully it meshes well with FF7.

[@readurasawamonster9782]

@@jamesalexander5559 Really?! RADICAL!

[@jamesalexander5559]

@@readurasawamonster9782 Yeah that's pretty cool so I at least have hope that the combat will be good.

[@spooky0407]

No mention of Shin Megami Tensei?

[@josue65222]

I was about to say. I will never not shill the Press Turn Battle System. I love how amazing it makes you feel and how brutal it can be.

[@kieran7274]

I've played all these games and a couple of final fantasy and pokemon ones, my favorite by far is an indie game called epic battle fantasy. it's not too well known but of you've played flash games in your life you probably know what it is or have played it once. in the 5th game, which is the most recent. it combines a ton of different mechanics from other games. you can catch enemies and summon them later, kinda like pokemon and you can show mercy like in undertale but with a little twist, you can execute them if you kill the foe while they want to surrender. there's a ton more like complex status effects that can be stacked to get the most damage possible on an enemy which is probably my favorite part. you should give it a try if you have the time and some money to spare! PS. sorry for my English it isn't my first language

[@jasonargo4459]

I noticed that all of your examples were non-grid-based RPGs. Do you know of any grid-based RPGs that have more engaging battle mechanics?

[@Atma505]

Dunno if you mean strictly Strategy RPGs or more traditional RPGs except with grid-based battle systems, but I can name a few: _Final Fantasy Tactics_ with its Job mechanic, _Tactics Ogre_ (the PSP remake offers lots of ways to make the battlefield work for you using Elements); the first _Persona_ game uses a grid to determine where your attacks land and their AOE, but most people don't like it. Every Fire Emblem game is very different, but the changes started with the weapon triangle (sword > axe > lance) and added on relationships, class changes, customizable bases, etc etc.

[@jasonargo4459]

Yes, those are good examples! FFT got me into grid-based combat, though, to go along with your message in the video, many of them have gotten stale. Staleness to me in grid-based RPGs means the same mechanics recycled in new games and just generally no innovative mechanics. To that end, do you know of any engaging grid-based battle systems that encourage the player to play as if in real time even if the system is turn-based?

[@LaManchaland]

@@jasonargo4459 Disgaea

[@BartholomewWiggum]

@@jasonargo4459 there is South park, the fractured but whole.

[@kellenwong1321]

Super Robot Wars

[@RayOfTruth]

A more simple way that a franchise has spiced up turn based gameplay is MegaTen's press turn system.

[@Anth1121]

*intense looking for Mario & Luigi series mention*

[@user-np2xl4qk4w]

0:16 "but some games know how to get someone a little bit more interested in the gameplay" *footage of Mystic Quest* lmao

[@GrubKiller436]

Valkyrie Profiles Lenneth

[@OldeSmithProductions]

I'm a big fan of Barkley Shut Up and Jam Gaiden's combat mechanics. Every party member has little minigames you play depending on which attack you do. Barkley has you time button presses to make your shots more accurate, Balthios has you mashing to increase the strength of your Zauber hits, the CyberDwarf has a little combo mini-game where you have to most efficiently combo your opponent with his movelist within a limited time, and Hoopz has a mix of Balthios and Barkley's in that he can both mash for some attacks or time a perfect shot on others to do tons of damage. All in all, those little minigames made just the simple act of engaging in combat fun, where it was more than just picking the best move for the situation, it was also the ability to execute on them.

[@thejean7974]

Good video. I love the detail and discussion. I can't wait to see more videos soon.

[@mako_happy]

*PERSONA 3 FES*

[@Ren_AmamiyaP5]

Idk why but Rpg and Jrpg are separated genre for some reason

[@usiahz9640]

How do you have less subscribers than me this is amazing

[@UnicornCombo]

Divinity: OS2 has some of my favorite turn-based combat in a game. Heavy emphasis on positioning in battlefield and combo-ing different attacks together. Felt really engaging even across the 100 hour length of that game lol. Definitely blending into tactical (i.e. XCOM) turn-based area tho there

[@SnugglyTheCrow]

Totally seconded and I wish more games did it.

[@arempy5836]

I find the undertale option isjust sort of giving up on the idea of designing an interesting combat system. Genocide wise it's not really about strategy it's just about maneuvering around hazards and then hitting the enemy. Pacifist is maneuvering plus it's a bit like an adventure game.

[@Nero-hi3zf]

Mmmh. You're right. Undertale is missing the strategy aspect I'm personally a fan of.

[@FriedFrenchFries]

@@Nero-hi3zf What are you talking about? It has that.

[@Nero-hi3zf]

@@FriedFrenchFries Are you sure? Undertale is just "Dodge Bullets" and attack again. You can of course try out all Acts for each monster but it's not bringing a real strategic aspect to the table. And that's okay because the game focuses on one central desicion: "Do I kill my opponent or not?" Example: The infamous Sans fight: One of the hardest fights in the game and yet you just dodge and attack without any strategy.

[@Happy-_]

@@Nero-hi3zf acting gives enemies buffs or debuffs

[@Nero-hi3zf]

@@Happy-_Of course every RPG has some strategic aspects. But again, does Undertale really focus strategic gameplay? Not more than any other game! I'm sorry, I won't discuss this matter any more. I don't see a focus on strategy in Undertale. The last RPG I played was Stardew Valley which, in my opinion, has a much bigger emphasis on strategy...

[@aledro1828]

Transistor combate system its amazing aswell.

[@esckay4fun231]

So, FF system sux? No FFVII Materia system or FFXII Gambit system?

[@Villain_Killin_Dylan]

We need action commands in games like pokemon

[@samyb4566]

What are you talking about? There is no action commands in Pokémon.

[@Villain_Killin_Dylan]

@@samyb4566 We need action commands in Pokemon

[@clayton_games]

This is a good video. Earth bound uses on-screen enemies and an auto-win state for weaker enemy groups to eliminate random battles (the HP roll is neat, but not a game-changer to me). Chrono Trigger has area of effect spells/skills and combines character turns to perform combo techs. What do you think of creating more thoughtful menu/turn-based battles? I think FFX has something interesting where certain characters are better at defeating certain enemy types. Is there a way to take this further and turn battles into puzzles for the player to solve? Or is there a game that already does this?

[@OOFUS4103]

The rolling HP meter is DEFINITELY a game-changer. Late game enemies will have a lot of moves that deal mortal damage to your entire party, making it a necessary feature in the game.

[@BinaryDood]

this is but the tip of the iceberg.

[@zKryptic]

Excellent Video. Can only hope and pray for direct sequel to Chrono Trigger that is turn based and builds upon what is so amazing about that game. We are due for a main line turn based FF game would be amazing to see these elements all introduced.

[@paulvictor7489]

Turn based battles can be really fun tho imo... like bowser inside story turn based combat was so much fun, and games like bravely default use all kinds of strategy.

[@ibrahimhassan6566]

Yeah man random encounters and having to fight way too weak enemies over and over sucks.

[@Nero-hi3zf]

When grass becomes your biggest enemy ;D

[@waterbird2686]

You should play kingsway it's one of the best rpg's I've recently played

[@AU78]

clicked on this video really hoping to not see the same basic undertale, mother 2 and 3, and chrono trigger, and got dissapointed lmao hard to find other good turn-based rpgs other than these 4 though, cant blame you too much

[@ferikhoros8802]

Didnt even mention darkest dungeon *my disappointed is immeasurable and mu day day is ruined*

[@dmas7749]

bro WHERE IS SHIN MEGAMI TENSEI

[@akiinmoonlight79]

dude literally comes of as a final fantasy hater ×___×

[@PHeMoX]

Undertale was actually very terrible. It's combat is more a case of not even bothering with it. Why people liked that game is completely beyond me. It's not even very good from a mechanical point of view.

[@Atma505]

"not even bothering with it" wat?

[@tieguy895]

Sometimes its easy to overlook the technical aspects of a game when you're more focused on things like story, characters and dialogue, thats why the first run is so charming and new, but genocide is a little stale when you mostly focus on the combat system

[@supercyclone8342]

That comment is almost as toxic as the fan base. If you don't like bullethells or don't care to much for story/characters then ok but don't call the game terrible because of it.

[@Big_Dai]

I wouldn't really classify Undertale as an RPG. It's more of a bullet-hell with a world/story similar to Mother's. It's a rather interesting combination, and the story was interesting to many. But it's okay for you not to like it.

[@tsukr28]

“more focused on things like the story” have you heard about undertale fan games which are entirely just battles? personally i like it and i think its fun, but y’know you do you.

[@user-np2xl4qk4w]

0:16 "but some games know how to get someone a little bit more interested in the gameplay" *footage of Mystic Quest* lmao