This Is How We Finally Kill Turbotax

Filing your taxes could be free starting this year. The IRS is running a direct-file pilot program. The goal is to make companies like TurboTax obsolete through a system where your taxes are filled out for you. But tax prep companies are spending millions to block them.
Why are Intuit and H&R Block so against making filing your taxes free and easy? Because they're making billions by charging you. Americans spend $31 billion each year on tax filing.
-----
More Perfect Union is a new nonprofit media org with a mission to empower working people. Learn more here: perfectunion.us/
Follow us on Twitter: / moreperfectus
Instagram: / perfectunion
Facebook: / moreperfunion

[@prerecordedresponse9884]

I went to H&R block once and tried to take my filing fees out of my return, as advertised. The guy filing my claim said. "No, you're paying for this today or I'm not filing your returns." I turned and pointed at the big sign that said "File your return for free up front" but he stood his ground, literally holding my claim for hostage until I got a manager. Even on the ground floor, these companies are so scummy.

[@randombrokeperson]

I was going to go through H&R Block to amend my returns and they wanted to charge me $300-400. Thankfully my aunt hooked me up with a tax guy that only charged me $150 smh I knew I shouldn’t have gone through them because I remember my grandma got money from a class action against their loser asses when I was little

[@Mawyman2316]

@@randombrokepersonwhat are you people making Jesus. I make almost 6 figures and I still had a simple enough claim to pay 15 bucks on freetaxusa. Think TurboTax was 60. Kids?

[@prerecordedresponse9884]

@@randombrokeperson that really sucks. I'm glad you backed out of that.

[@BrendonWilliams]

H&R is super scummy. If you ask them ahead of time how much prep will cost, they will lie. They tried to charge a family member 3x what they quoted over the phone. They will also charge you more for some papers like charity rebates than the rebates are even worth.

[@bennypika3575]

they treat their accountant like a deliver tip workers!

[@JLocke0113]

If the only consequence for a company breaking the law is a fine, it simply becomes a cost of doing business.

[@sararatliff7707]

I agree. There should be a risk of long-term imprisonment in the worst facilities ever or even capital punishment for the executive that signs off on these inhumane deals.

[@rickb3650]

Exactly. And the result of this is lawlessness throughout American business. Buying politicians is the best US investment possible. They're really cheap and the returns are astronomical.

[@lcxb8575]

Penalties like fines are just a cost of doing business, like commissions, bonuses to big bosses and dividends.

[@jackb1969]

Exactly. And why can't citizens get money from the fines?!

[@FirstLast-vr7es]

Exactly. Those responsible need to face prison time. It's high time we get this country back under control.

[@realDonaldMcElvy]

"I want to pay my taxes, but I can't afford the service to pay my taxes." - Americans

[@qwerty6928]

Many Americans can't afford to go bankrupt. You can't make this shit up

[@finnilyenough]

IRS: jail 🥺 UwU

[@Euragone68]

There are tons of free tax services already! The paid services offer a Tax Audit protection. . What America needs is a Flat Tax..

[@falleithani5411]

@@Euragone68 Flat tax is one of those things that is appealing in its simplicity, but quickly gets more and more horrifying, the more one actually extrapolates the consequences. There's a reason the _most_ corrupt corporations and billionaires are the ones who are pushing and lobbying _hardest_ for a flat tax system.

[@SpinningSideKick9000]

This literally happened to me. I would've paid, but couldn't afford the extra fee

[@matthewluck9077]

I've always asked, "What is the point of having to do all of this complicated tax work when the IRS is gonna check it and tell us it's right or wrong anyways?" It never made sense.

[@LexYeen]

The point is that it's making someone money, clearly. 🙃

[@leelindsay5618]

If you have a business and deduct expenses, you have to provide that info. If you get audited, you provide receipts of your deductions. The difference is if you have a job, and get married, divorced,or have a kid, you can have new credits that you didn't have the prior year.

[@KyraHogue]

Employers get income info wrong all the time. Wrong name, spelling, social is wrong, typos of the figures. There's way too many possible issues. I'm happy to verify my income and fight back if something is wrong.

[@scottabc72]

@@KyraHogue There definitely needs to be an easy and no cost way for individuals to review the IRS info and make changes and additions but the current system isnt trying to do that, its all about making a few corporations big profits

[@KyraHogue]

@@scottabc72 You can get transcripts for free and request a W-2C from your employer to ask they send in corrections. I just don't like how slow it is.

[@diegomorais6151]

Why aren't lobbyers treated like the mob? this has got to stop

[@alejandroramirez-ih7jv]

Legal mob

[@BleedForTheWorld]

It's like the police - legal gang.

[@ryanadams0922]

because sometimes (very little mind you) there are some good lobbyists like those trying to make the country go green. But I agree any lobbyists that tries to destroy the world/country/ its citizens should be illegal

[@mordsythe]

@@ryanadams0922any and ALL lobbying should be made illegal. It’s LITERALLY bribery at its core.

[@michael1190]

Why attack the lobbyist? They are just asking for money or favors. Politicians can say no. When you see a morbidly obese child you blame the parents. Asking a corporation to not do everything in its power to raise shareholder value is like asking a child to do the right thing and eat right. Someone has to be the adult.

[@MichelleJNorton]

we shouldn't have to file at all. The IRS has all this information.

[@ohiasdxfcghbljokasdjhnfvaw4ehr]

AND they already took your tax money! The taxes are already paid! So why do we need to go through all this crap?! Really it's because upper middle class people like how they can get all kinds of deductions and end up paying less than the poor.

[@Dave102693]

Facts

[@MasonJarGaming]

That’s only partially correct. If you have a regular job where your employer reports your income to the IRS, then the IRS already knows how much you earned, But if you work for yourself or have other sources of income like rental properties, the IRS doesn't have that information.

[@KyraHogue]

Thankfully not really. They have most of our info, but not everything. There are pieces off info, like medical issues you might have, other sources of income like stocks that aren't as well kept until the business sends that info. Usually that's after the filing season.

[@Romaneze]

Exactly

[@xczechr]

Yes please, let's do this as soon as possible. Due to our crazy tax system, I was sued by the IRS in 2015 for unpaid taxes involving imputed income. I decided to fight them and won, even though every expert and tax lawyer I consulted said to just pay up as you cannot beat the IRS. In fact, it was discovered I had overpaid for the year in question and the IRS sent me a check.

[@ohiasdxfcghbljokasdjhnfvaw4ehr]

you know your justice system is broken when people try to convince you to plead guilty to a crime you didn't commit because you're going to lose anyway

[@KyraHogue]

Exactly! That's why appeal rights are mentioned on basically every letter sent out! It's your right to be heard. Mistakes will be made, and they do need to be held accountable. Just don't scream at the pencil pushers. . .

[@TheologyVGM]

Good on you for winning! Screw the man.

[@dannydaw59]

Did you use Intuit or H&R block?

[@bigdog8008]

Surprised they didn't fine you for not catching your over-payment sooner.

[@crestofscribbles8761]

We already automatically bleed out in taxes every time we buy or are paid. The whole filing taxes is a waste of time and an unnecessary middle man operation. There should be a government body that does this all automatically rather than make individuals who aren't educated in government processes seek help from bloodthirsty privateers.

[@Carnivorous-Vegan]

Lobby == Let Our Business Bribe You

[@_framedlife]

that's how it is in almost all countries even developing ones. you just review and add additional info it may not have found and then hit submit

[@youtubecommercialsareascam8495]

Yeah it cost me $600 to get $900 back which left me with 300. If I understood the paperwork I would do it myself but have the words in the paperwork I would have to keep running to the dictionary for. Which leaves me looking up eight other words to understand what the one word meant😂😂😂😂 and I still don't know if I understood it correctly😢

[@apollomedia7210]

Dont ever ask government to do anything for you. You’ll regret it

[@KaritKtana]

💯💯💯💯💯💯

[@codacreator6162]

Every time someone brings up lobbyists, I can’t help but think how ashamed our political leaders should be for nakedly accepting bribes at the expense of the American people.

[@falleithani5411]

​@@ceciliacole5098 It never was. The idea of a stable, bribery-free government is relatively new and young, and no one has ever figured out how to actually build one.

[@albertko1]

Yes, they're all so ashamed that their bank accounts are so full of corrupt money that their careers are built on cheap favors to big business and special interests.

[@dannydaw59]

Congress needs to get rid of lobbyists and pacs.

[@cr4shmycar118]

Politicians have no shame. At anything above a city or county level, politicians operate off a whole different worldview than us normal people.

[@NoSpam1891]

Robert B. Reich: The worst memo in American history came from Lewis Powell - Hartford Courant In 1971, 175 firms had lobbyists in D.C. By 1982, nearly 2,500 had them. By the 1990s corporations employed 61K people to lobby for them. That's 100 lobbyists+ for each Congress member. In 1980, the richest one-hundredth of 1 percent of Americans provided 10 percent of contributions to federal elections. By 2012, they provided 40 percent. We take the corporate domination of our politics for granted. It wasn't always like this.

[@auntieuppity2458]

I work as a contractor for TurboTax support this shit wholeheartedly

[@toastrecon]

It really is a total joke. The law should be passed that there should be a target that 95% of Americans should be able to file their own tax return for free in 30min or less. Five years to make it happen.

[@brokenrecord3095]

I remember when Trump was first running, he said people should be able to file taxes on a postcard. Obviously that didn't happen.

[@KyraHogue]

@@brokenrecord3095 I forgot about that. They did try to make the 1040 smaller, and then the schedules and additional forms ballooned to make up for the missing space. That was quickly changed back to a longer form.

[@Metal0sopher]

Why do we need returns. Why doesn't the gov collect correctly?

[@toastrecon]

@@Metal0sopher the challenge comes, in my very uneducated opinion, when you have other income like rents from a property you own, side income, or you buy and sell stocks. Also, it comes from situations where you get to deduct income, like for child tax credits, mortgage interest and the like. That’s basically how it works: the government takes the max amount from most people (via withholding from your paycheck) and then you fill out a bunch of forms proving that you qualify to get a bunch of it back. All of those rules and regulations is why it’s impossible to do it yourself on paper and why TurboTax gets paid so much - they have to learn and program all of the rules into their system. I shudder to think of how the IRS would replicate TurboTax, I really think the tax code just needs to be simplified. I don’t think people would be that interested in losing their child tax credit just to not have to work through TurboTax, though.

[@KyraHogue]

@@toastrecon The modernization will be very interesting, and I don't think they'll try to replicate any one business. It can absolutely be argued that the tax code should be simplified, but that's up to the law makers. Either they just like it complicated, or recognize that a one size fits most solution wouldn't work with the complexities of the population. But it does seem promising so far.

[@kingmarx810]

Omg, direct file should have been implemented decades ago. I hate paying to file taxes. Unless you have a complicated tax situation the average American should not have to pay to file their tax return.

[@travcollier]

Back in 2004, one of the major Dem primary contenders, Wesley Clark, proposed such a system. For the vast majority of folks, the IRS already has all the info. If you need or just want to do the forms yourself, fine, but if you've just got normal income you don't need to.

[@Novusod]

The benefit of using a paid tax service is they will help you find all the tax credits and deductions you can possibly get. If you go with the free option you will end up paying more tax then you need to by leaving certain deductions on the table.

[@Greenitthe]

@@Novusod Putting aside that for the vast majority of Americans, there is no benefit to itemizing deductions, why can't the free option screen for any applicable credits and deductions just as the paid options do? I mean, if anything, the IRS would know best who qualifies for what...

[@Novusod]

@@Greenitthe The tax code it too complex for free software to handle. Sometimes even the paid software won't catch all the deductions and a paid human tax specialist has to handle it. Maybe I am being old fashioned but I don't trust any kind software to do my taxes.

[@brandon9172]

@@Novusod " The tax code it too complex for free software to handle" that is not how software works.. Cost doesn't make it more or less capable.

[@zanebartlett8004]

Imagine you go to any business and before paying they ask you to itemize the bill and if you get it wrong they'll charge you more or have you arrested. You can pay another person in the business to itemize it for you, and they'll often do a better job, but if they mess up you now have to prove that it wasn't your fault. That's the current American tax system at work.

[@trinsit]

This is literally how THE ENTIRE ECONOMY works! Everything is middleman economics. No purpose beyond profit to those up top.

[@MrChazz965]

Yup, every single business in the US is a scam

[@KensaiProductions]

We should be receiving prefilled forms to approve or amend. There is only one reason we aren't and it's those same people working against us to farm our incomes.

[@TenOfZero1]

yeah, this feels like a big quiz, like the goc knows the answer (in Canadas they ahve a copy of all My T4's, T3s etc.. already) and it's like we are just doing this exam, where they want to see if we get the right answer.

[@AM-rp8xn]

Yeah its not like they aren't the ones who give us all of the documents we need to do it then when someone makes a mistake because they don't have all of their info then they want to punish you. Just send me what you have and if it looks legit I'll cut the check or refund me damn

[@KyraHogue]

@@AM-rp8xn I basically agree. Most people think the W-2 and similar forms come from the IRS; It comes from the employer or payer. That's what they should use on the tax form. I've never understood why the IRS asks people to send in their copies of the income documents. WHY? You already have it!! (Or should if the employer is doing their job correctly!)

[@teh201d]

You mean like a CP2000, but sent before applying penalties?

[@TenOfZero1]

@@teh201d I think that's exactly what people are thinking about

[@stephm.3407]

I'm feeling pretty stupid right now, I never even questioned any of this. That's what happens when we're indoctrinated forever, we don't even question things. Thank God for younger people who are pushing back on time honored rhetoric and helping the rest of us look at things from a different perspective.

[@cdw2468]

don’t feel stupid, no one comes out the womb as an omnipotent. you know now, and that’s what matters

[@FEAdeES]

Wow, I hope more ppl start to realize what you just did (not the stupid part) but pushing back against “always done this way” and looking into who or what is gaining (fairly or unfairly) from the status quo

[@samlee1546]

Well income taxes were started to fund wars. After the war they didn't go away. So taxes on income aren't supposed to exist

[@kevinstarski1598]

That's why people who travel and live in different countries gain perspective on things and see/notice stuff that the gen pop is completely oblivious to.

[@xbox1445]

I live in Mexico, we have a lot of problems but every year that I started working I can't imagine wasting more than 20 min In a single day to file my taxes. This is done automatically for me, I've had only submitted some medical bills for credits (which was also done automatically and just rechecked on the day) and have had a credit that takes between 1 and 5 days to be deposited in my account. No middle men no nothing. Hopefully the US gets that soon.

[@cryptbeast3222]

I doubt the US will fix any of this mess any time soon. This country is a casino that loves to suck out every last cent from as many middle to low income people as possible. Middle man's paradise. I hate this place.

[@malegria9641]

Weyyy, soy de Tucson y cada hora de cada día pienso en saltar sobre la barrera

[@michaelhathorus4859]

100% truth! Also, here's a kicker. If you use a tax prep software or professional, YOU the tax payer are on the hook if THEY make a mistake on your taxes. YOU have to prove that you earn these credits, that you did not falsify your income or deductions (standard defense excuse by Tax Prep), and often you have to pay a lawyer or some other tax professional to clear your name. However if the Agency were in charge of the submission (like through Volunteer Income Tax Assistance (VITA), Tax Counseling for the Elderly (TCE) , etc.) any mistake is investigated internally to ensure the IRS employee didn't make the mistake first. The presumption is that it was the IRS employee's fault, not yours. Finally, these Tax Prep companies say that you will get your money right away (or in a short period of time) but that is usually a loan against your REAL reimbursement, usually with several hundred dollars withheld for 'fees.' They are Pay Day Loan-ing you on your tax return. Go to the IRS Website, search for Free File programs, use TurboTax or whatever tog et the best return possible (including hidden credits, etc.) and then compare it to the free file programs (usually very small companies) and use the FREE FILE to submit your taxes. Let the pay-for-it companies do the work, then file fore free via these smaller companies. Let your representative know; email, call, write, speak in person if you can. Lobby THEM for you and your neighbors.

[@KyraHogue]

God I hate RAC/RALs. It's gross that they hide the fact that it's a loan. And they charge astronomical prices and "soften" the blow with the refund paying for the "service". Free filing is an option, and I can't wait for the modernization like DUT to be more widely implemented.

[@laulaja-7186]

Excellent and informative advice, thank you!

[@terminatorxp2007]

TurboTax straight up stole my tax return when I accidentally chose their “premium” service, which was something I never needed before and certainly didn’t use any of its benefits when filing for my taxes. When I asked for a refund, they said no.

[@thisbymaster]

This is something that really reaches across the political divide, no one wants to do taxes. And it is crazy that we still have to fill out the forms.

[@laulaja-7186]

It’s like “bread and circuses” in reverse: Ancient Roman emperors found that they could keep the Roman public occupied with free entertainment and it would prevent them from rioting against the rampant corruption at the top. Likewise the over complicated tax system serves to keep people busily unproductive: Europeans may have their month long summer holidays when nothing much gets done at the office. But since it’s unpatriotic to allow holidays in a proudly capitalistic society, Americans instead have April when nothing much gets done in the workplace due to the hand-wringing and hair-pulling to manually compile detailed financial records for the surveillance overlords.

[@ossieblackman1812]

Remember lads, always pay (enough of) your taxes. Also, we should have a leaderboard for who pays the most taxes.

[@broodypie2216]

In both percent and total amount, so we can see the disparity.

[@KainMalice]

Some people see taxes as theft. Those are typically very wealthy individuals. I personally consider it to be a form of patriotism.

[@InventorZahran]

@@KainMaliceI don't have a problem with paying taxes (how else is the government supposed to fund everything it does?), but I don't like how so much of our tax dollars get spent on the military and warfare.

[@OutdoorLonghair]

​@@KainMalice and should be an investment into the future well being of our country, should.

[@youtubeuniversity3638]

​@@broodypie2216Two Leaderboards!

[@megustAslagt]

"Leuker kunnen we het niet maken, wel makkelijker" - De Belastingdienst ('we can't make it more fun, but we can make it easier' - Dutch federal tax agency)

[@bogosbinted5734]

In America, we can't make it fun, but we also won't make it easier. Lol

[@laulaja-7186]

@@bogosbinted5734 Well said! It is not just about taxing people’s income but also about taxing their PII… and sharing both with the private sector

[@Dysiode]

Edit Edit: "These companies are willing to spend what looks like a lot of money, like millions of dollars..." I will repeat this until my fingers fall off: If I say I'll give you $1,000 but only give you $999, that $1 difference is the same as $1 million with respect to $1 billion. It's not even a rounding error to them. Edit: What's absolute absurd is I'm very left and I effectively -never- questioned the need to pay for tax prep software. I absolutely find it stupid that the IRS which knows all my information already doesn't just do it for me, but beyond that it just became a fact of life 24 minutes ago!!

[@karlhenke91]

In the state of Alaska, pretty much everyone gets the Permanent Fund Dividend (PFD). Until the forms were changed in 2019-ish, claiming a PFD on your tax return kicked you to the paid section, because now you have a 1099. So they essentially have been fleecing entire states.

[@leehayes4019]

Direct file sounds a great deal better.

[@ThickpropheT]

It never occurred to me that we're paying money to pay money. Hmm.

[@gigaus0]

you forgot to mention, people go to jail for not paying their taxes 'correctly', including the new nonsensical stuff these companies lobbied to add in, while the government already knows what you have to pay based on info you send them regularly. We basically have the reverse of free-filing, where the government already did the work, but effectively must demand you do all the work again, threaten you with jail, and then point you in the direction of these pay for use tax filers.

[@BleedForTheWorld]

It's like the credit system - it's designed to keep the working class away from stepping out of line too much and the violent threat of imprisonment is included in that.

[@jannikheidemann3805]

@@BleedForTheWorld Immagine the mourning families of those killed by people which tried to justly defended themselves against said unjust violence and imprisonment! All the blood and tears, what tragedy, let's avoid it!

[@marcdunivan2436]

The income tax laws are so complex that it REQUIRES a income tax preparer to file income tax returns...or face the IRS.

[@SimGunther]

Paying money to a leech so we can pay money to someone misusing their resources is like paying out of pocket for essential job resources and training. How anyone thinks it's okay is beyond me...

[@BleedForTheWorld]

It's one of those areas of society where "it's just the way things are". And if you're wondering why there isn't a dent to create change, think about single issue voting where you can keep people distracted with the help of the MSM with things like foreign conflicts, inflation, brown people from the southern border, etc.

[@Coralyn]

...Or like paying insurance companies to cover medical costs so that they deny coverage for medically necessary care recommended by your physician.

[@rendomstranger8698]

Here in the Netherlands, all the data is already filled out when filing your taxes. You just go through it, correct any wrong information and click send. The only reason I can think of for this not being the case in the US is because lobbyists bribe the government to make sure that isn't the case. To the best of my knowledge, literally every argument against having your tax form be filled in upon receiving it has already been dealt with and resolved.

[@Fayanora]

If this gets passed, and I hope it does, TurboTax's parent company should be made to refund to everyone what they were charged for doing taxes. Not just living people, either. Make them refund dead people's fees as well, the money can go to their relatives or maybe towards the education system if they had no heirs. The company would never recover from that.

[@ericjohnson7637]

I feel like this is something that goes under the radar a lot of the time. Americans just accept that taxes are difficult and fail to acknowledge an alternative could exist. It's also weird to think of one of these companies lobbying the government to make taxes hard to pay.

[@Coralyn]

"Americans just accept that taxes are difficult and fail to acknowledge an alternative could exist." So true in every sector of the market economy that works like this where there's multiple layers of middlemen between Americans and services, like healthcare where you have not only insurance providers, but entire companies that exist solely to broker for the insurance companies. . . but most people don't question that this is the only way it can possibly be, and most others are convinced we literally already have the best possible scenario.

[@Jin420]

Government needs to take charge of it. Why are we one of the few developed countries making us do our own taxes?? Why can't we get a postcard with what we owe or get as a refund?? Then confirm. Why must we pay hundreds of $ just because there are additional forms???? This system is about as dumb as the student loan system. 💯💯 Or allowing the pharmaceutical companies to "handle" everything... Utilization of 3rd party in the US is beyond ridiculous. 💯

[@OutdoorLonghair]

USA=Capitalism This nation only exists for the capitalist, has since it's inception. We are the baddies!

[@cactusjackNV]

Because people use to value privacy in our country. The government doing taxes for it's citizens means they have ALL your information. They will know every last small detail of your spending habits and life. Donated to a political opponent or organization they don't agree with? Too bad for you, one more name added to their watch list.

[@Infinite_Curiosity00]

I would love for it to be automatic. Most people would benefit from this. Obviously the self employed, etc. are different, but as a baseline it should be automated by the gov.

[@grege5074]

as an accountant who has a stable of clients who come to me year after year for the simplest tax returns, its both frustrating and baffling. I do it for free because its so easy but everytime I try to explain, you can do this yourself, the instructions are all there, I get blank stares and "ok cool, but like its April 14th - you still good to do it?"

[@DrumToTheBassWoop]

That's how these companies evolved, as a fellow accountant, you are seen easier than to just learn it yourself.

[@Caitlin_TheGreat]

While I've apparently managed to be part of that 2% still able to use the free version (and can confirm it's not easy, they do all they can to route you to paying money), I'm 100% in favor of cutting out the for-profit companies. It's a basic service tied to taxes I've already paid -- there's no reason I should be charge _more_ for just complying with a basic function of residence here in the US. America became obsessed with getting all sorts of private middlemen for stuff that doesn't _need_ such arrangements and which directly harms people by creating needless expenses. Tax Filing, Health Insurance, Burial, Home Ownership, etc. The obsession with privatization has just created so very much waste and it's gotten to the point of it being nearly impossible to miss how useless and wasteful it all is. Nearly. There are still some folks with the wool pulled firmly over their eyes and they're holding on tight to keep it in place.

[@maxsteel32]

I would love for you to investigate highway and road subsidies in comparison to rail and public transportation spending.

[@Vaan362]

This is sooo criminal! I just want to pay my Taxes without spending a ton in fees!

[@chad9971]

I saw paywalls to file my taxes, but this past tax filing season I ran into it the most and got quickly annoyed. I had to search around a bit before I was able to submit it for free. But I shouldn't have to do that. There are a few things I believe you should NOT have to do: pay money to acknowledge the government took your money, pay money to have someone tell you how to live in your home, and pay money to use your money.

[@travcollier]

If an industry is lobbying to keep governments from offering a service (eg. Tax filing, local broadband, ect.) it is because they think governments can do it better and cheaper than private companies can. It is a huge sign that industry would actually be better if it was socialized. I'm a pretty big fan of private enterprise and markets, but there are some things where it honestly just makes more sense for government to run it (or own the companies which do it). Tax filing is very much one of those.

[@thelogan4641]

I live in Denmark, we are one of the 30'ish countries where we get all of it done automatically and just have to double check for errors, I never understood why the US doesn't just do that, but I guess now it makes sense ... Our system is not perfect btw, but it's certainly a lot better than no system xD

[@LiiMuRi]

Finland has the same. If you're a normal worker, you usually don't have to do anything but to check for errors. Sooooo, easy. I literally spend 2 minutes "doing my taxes".

[@thelogan4641]

@@LiiMuRi Same, and it turned out there were a bunch of mistakes I didn't spot last time around, it was a bit ridiculous though, they sent me like $500 back, then they asked for $200 returned, then they sent me $50 and asked for a final $0.5 xD Sometimes it's not perfect but it's still better! xD

[@jeff__w]

Well, aside from the insane lobbying pressure from Intuit and other tax prep companies-which has been going on for over a decade at least (and Intuit has killed easy, free tax filing schemes at the state level, e.g., in California, too)-Americans simply _can’t imagine_ a system where taxes are done automatically for them, as it is in 30 other countries so there's no impetus for them to even _try_ to change it. Once again, the general lack of knowledge of how things work in other advanced countries really works against the ordinary person in the US.

[@shane_gentle]

The IRS already has everything they need. If you decide to take the standard deduction, they should be able to send you a refund or a bill, depending on what happened during that year.

[@anthonymorris8891]

What's worse is you pay for this, and if there's a mistake it's still on the filer unless you pay 2X or more for the "service". It happened to me a few years ago because TurboTax asked for info in the wrong box. So even when I double checked everything I still couldn't have known it was wrong.

[@krejados1]

Making citizens file taxes every year is gratuitous humiliation courtesy of your government. They already know how much you owe, they just want to dog-and-pony you a bit. Making you pay for your own humiliation is the icing on their cake.

[@laulaja-7186]

Heard of the book, "Three Felonies a Day"? With legal systems that are overly complicated, and zero input from ethics or logic into the making of laws, no citizen is likely to know when they have broken a law. So according to this one expert's analysis, the average American is committing three felonies per day. That leaves every citizen as nothing but a fat juicy piece of meat, ripe to be investigated whenever it becomes profitable to fine them into bankruptcy or jail.

[@jackcarraway4707]

There is zero reason why Uncle Sam can't simply mail us a check or bill with an invoice.

[@babakbabak5329]

At the Age of AI and Information it should happen. They already have all the data. It just takes developing the software to crunch the data and mail an invoice/check. And there no shortage of programming know-how.

[@ramhaven2322]

Alternative they could just simplify the tax code, so consumption is taxed and corparations are taxed and just leave us alone.

[@F.o.s.t.e.r.]

Fuck making it free. The government knows exactly what is owed and what is not. Just do the same thing every other countries does, send a letter stating we under or overpaid by however much. If there's a discrepancy, tell them. The entire purpose of this over complicated system is to ensure tax preparers can charge us.

[@ptolemaicfoxxo3032]

Imagine if those millions spent lobbying was spent on something like *paying their own taxes*

[@idontknowaboutthat1904]

More Perfect Union is a national treasure. Let's take ALL the CEOs and management of these tax prep companies and ALL their lobbyists and imprison them for 5-10 years and take ALL their money, and write laws outlawing their entire industry.

[@tonivazquez1081]

As a spaniard I am genuinely surprised that the people of the USA don't show way more indignation with all that crap that a few companies push down your throats. Really, how do you tolerate it?

[@logans3365]

It’s disgusting, but I appear to be in a very small percentage of people who actually know what’s going on here Everyone is just asleep I guess

[@Swishy_Blue]

The Addams Family once had a whole episode revolving around Gomez being insulted because his property tax was too low. He was so ready to pay way more than he needed to, because it's a mad flex.

[@allenwhycheng]

I am considering getting solar panels, but there seems to be a lot of problems. There are problems with home insurance not covering, panels not making enough electricity, electric company buying selling back at different rates, unable to alter panels post installation, the tax credit is difficult to get and when one "get it" they are supposed to pay the loan with it, otherwise monthly payments go up. There are so many scary stories. Please do a deep dive into this mess.

[@proberts34]

I have TurboTax files going back to 2006. I may have done it a couple times before then, but I don't have the files. It costs me ~$45 per year for the software, free Federal filing, and ~$25 for the state filing. The alternative, as I see it, is to go to H&R Block and pay ~$400 to build and file my taxes.

[@babakbabak5329]

Please, make tax preparation affordable. It is a nightmare as it in now. I hope this IRS's "direct-file" would take off. It is very hard for the Seniors on fixed income specially. If you think of it Tax preparation is a utility like Gas and Eclectic, it should be affordable and available to all. I would definitely use the direct-file when it is available to me. I will follow the program's progress. Good video. She said: "We are paying money to pay money". So true.

[@Twinkon2wheels]

I love this channel

[@Redpoppy80]

I work/volunteer at a free tax site called VITA and people who come to us get their returns filed for free assuming you meet our income threshold which this year is $75,000. I myself do about 60 returns a year and clients get an experienced preparer who is certified by the IRS. I do this because I know first hand how daunting it is to not have resources to handle basic obligations and can't stand seeing how many people are screwed over by corporate corruption of our state. I am also trained in how to get as many tax break for my clients as possible all above board. Self employment is a nightmare if you don't know what records to keep and how to deduct properly as it is purposely obtuse and many more deductions depending on the client.

[@theterminaldave]

Please do a story about how the Indeed Assessment tests such as the "attention to detail" test are gatekeeping qualified people and keeping them from getting employment. I have more than 5 years of administrative experience and can't pass that stupid test.

[@conrad4852]

This was so fascinating and informative!

[@mr.pavone9719]

When I worked in a restaurant I overheard the dishwashers talking about paying a service (Liberty Tax) to get their refund the same day. I asked them if they: owned their homes, had any investments, had any kids and owned any real estate. When they answered "no" to all but one question (one had a kid) I told them they could file a 1040EZ over the phone if they had a bank account or get a 1040EZ from the library. I got a form and brought it in the next day and showed them how to fill it out. They were happy to get more money, albeit after a wait, instead of paying to get less moneh back.

[@zcapari]

taxes should be cheaper AND EASIER to file! Everyone should be able to agree on this

[@YourCapybaraAmigo_17yrsago]

Just remember people if your income is up to 60 or 75K you qualify for free tax prep assistance in your locality. Double check the specific limit but it's something in that neighborhood.

[@cjplay2]

Thank you!!! Recent subscriber. Enjoying your content in general. This one irked me to no end because I pride myself on knowing how the internet works and still could not find the free sites for my adult kids to use. That said, PLEASE do one on trying to get the "Free checkup" appointment at Kaiser as mandated by the ACA/Obamacare. You can't. I called and still "Oh we don't offer that" was all I got from anyone.

[@Ianpact]

Thank you, MPU.

[@fsbayer]

We have return free filing in the UK and it's a godsend. If you're employed, make less than £6,000 in realised capital gains (e.g. from selling stocks or renting out a property), and make less than £1,500 from any additional self-employment in a year, you don't have to file a tax return at all, because below those thresholds you don't owe tax on those things, and income tax is automatically withheld from your pay. Like most Brits, I've never had to file a tax return in my life. If they overtax your income by mistake (which can happen occasionally if your income is highly variable), you get a cheque at the end of the financial year, and if they undertax (which rarely happens) you just have to mail them a cheque! Hope the US catches up soon - solidarity from Scotland ✊

[@unemilifleur]

I filed my taxes last year with a similar site in Canada, but it was so unnecessary unclear at times, yet perfectly explained at other times. But you’re in luck! You can pay to have someone check it with you 😃 I’m paying for someone to do it all this year.

[@benjaminshropshire2900]

One very direct way to fix this problem: Step 1 require the IRS to publish (either public domain or under an extremely permissive licence like MIT or BSD) the code it uses to check that a return is numerically correct at the same time it publishes everything else about how to do your taxes. Step 2: define any tax return that the published software accepts as correct to *be* legally correct (assuming the data put into it is itself correct) even if the published software is in error. Given those two thing, it would be a rather simple to wrap a UI around it leading to the tax prep market becoming a commodity market. You would even have free software flooding the market. This kinda saves the existing industry as they still have name recognition which would allow them to retain a market segment, but it also kinda kneecaps them, because that won't last and to stay in business they will have to figure out ways to actually provide real value to their costumers beyond fixing a problem they created. Also, this is, IMHO, strictly *better* than an IRS run solution as it would avoid a one-size-fits-nobody government monopoly in favor of a diverse saturated market with a profit motive for creating user friendly offering.

[@henryswims]

I remember filing this year with Credit Karma who was bought by intuit, so I was sent to turbo tax. I had a simple filing with only a W-2 form. I was unable to start a new filing from another link, when select my filing plan there was no free option. I had to contact turbo tax and tell them, I qualify for a free filing and they need to provide this service to me. I was then sent a coupon that gave me a free filing. so no there behavior still hasn't changed yet.

[@craigsawyer6453]

I have filed with Turbo Tax from the start - lured in by the Free Filing. Over the years the price of E filing has increased. My wife has always used a local accountant to file. The price for us to file is almost exactly same. The difference is I do all the work inputting my information and my wife only has to drive across town. If the price for filing electronically were less I could understand the need for H&R and TurboTax but as there is no savings in filing with them why would anyone bother using their service?

[@SamTahbou]

Across the world, governments and emloyers just do the taxes for employees.

[@bf6159]

When I worked in IT, I hit this wall and spent days working around it as a matter of principal. Be great to see a Class Action Law Suit aimed at the companies perpetrating this fraud.

[@tezo46]

I so glad this is being talked about. So many times I’ve filled my taxes only to owe money and turbo tax wouldn’t allow me to submit my return because I have to pay them 100 plus dollars I don’t have. This system of pay to pay the government is ridicules. I understand if you have a very very complicated return but the everyday worker shouldn’t have to do this with the technology that’s in place today

[@itsoktobehappy461]

I buy the turbo tax CD used on eBay then I resell it on eBay. Costs me nearly nothing. Plus there are other completely free options. , You were always presented with so many options.

[@jhannon9495]

We've needed this change for a long time.

[@Craxin01]

Greed destroys everything.

[@guss77]

The American tax system is crazy in that it requires individual citizens to exert the same kind of effort that companies need to in order to not cheat on their taxes. I live in Israel, which uses a completely different system (not one of the three presented in this video) called "tax clearance at the origin" where if you are an employee working for a single employer (which is sth like 90% of work income earners), your employer will pay you your net salary - i.e your employer is charged with figuring out your tax situation and file everything correctly - it makes sense as they already have the facilities to do so and are paying accredited accountant to manage that sort of stuff. The employer gets help from the tax authority for that - at onboarding the employee fills out a government form with a dozen checkboxes to ascertain their tax position, which is then filed with the government which will tell the employers how much tax they need to deduct from the salary and give the government. Your pay slip will detail all of that - so if you want challenge errors, report changes to tax position, claim against other income or expenses - you can then file with the tax authority, but if you are working for 20 years in the same place, you never have to file more than 1 simple form, once, with your employer.

[@jackfrank303]

I laugh when people say"Just pick up the paper forms and do them yourself. It's free." Years ago I used to follow the booklet and fill out the paper forms. You can't do it anymore. They have made even the simplest tax form so complicated the average person can not follow the instructions. The form I use is the 1040SR which is designed for seniors. The Instruction booklet is 110 pages long.

[@BrentBlueAllen]

I've been preparing my own taxes and mailing them in for probably 5-7 years to stick it to Intuit. I don't think it's done anything to them, but it's certainly inconvenienced me. Edit: California e-file has been free for years directly through the state's website and it's great.

[@rowenhusky]

Direct efile system. About time. Should have had this 15-20 years ago.

[@gigiopincio5006]

Nothing screams "corps are running the government" like the fact that you gotta pay to be able to pay

[@summertime69]

I have always gotten the free version of tax prep software (I used to do it myself, but the preparers got me the same money so it was easier to use the preparors.) I have a friend who i tried to tell him he could do for free (I could do it for free for him!) But he insisted on paying for service. I think most Americans who pay for tax filing do it because they choose to. They believe its better service, looks deeper, gets them more... for most folks who take the standard deduction this is unnecessary. I don't understand when people say that turbo tax/tax act/etc try to trick them into paying for tax prep.

[@ChargerBullet]

I agree. I'm kind of confused with this video. If you go to the IRS website they have links for two or three free versions on tax preparation websites. I sometimes use TurboTax or TaxAct for free and there was just one time they tried to charge me (I think it was because I made more one year). I remember when I first started working in the mid 90's we used to go to the post office and get the forms for free and fill them out by hand. A coworker told me she just prints out the forms and does her taxes herself. I checked the IRS website and people can still do it that way without the need to pay a tax prepare company like H&R.

[@laulaja-7186]

So one year someone took hours and hours of phone time with the highly paid accountant help desk advisors of one of the big tax prep software companies. Got all kinds of conflicting advice on the several key points of regulatory ambiguity that made the calls necessary. It raised the question of how the tax prep company could possibly still be turning a profit after having required so much human expert labour. This video gives the answer: Reinforcing dependency is worth the high cost to the company.

[@Bodega180]

The revenue these tax companies make should at least be for the USPS when we send back our returns. Lets support our national postal service instead of these tax companies and their shareholders.

[@i-love-comountains3850]

I hear "Pro Publica" I like. Exceptional news source.

[@Calakapepe]

agreed! if I'm legally required to do it. the government should provide a convenient method to fulfill this.. i know there is a way, but itcs a little out dated

[@Tubeytime]

private companies: let us handle federal matters. government: hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, ok!

[@ThatRcThing]

I got a check from that intuit settlement, a whole $32… probably spent over $400 over the years filing with them

[@Nonas_a_Blerd]

Great video, as usual. Tho my only income is Social Security, I don't qualify for the free version of any tax preparing software.

[@Zagar099]

This video was great and I'm commenting now mostly for visibility because this vid has relatively few views compared to others

[@stickyfox]

I was complaining about this about ten years ago and everyone was simping for the tax companies.. It's refreshing to see that it's catching on. Filing taxes used to cost you one first-class stamp; maybe two if you filed the whole 1040 with schedules and receipts. Now that we're not printing all those books and forms, it should be even cheaper; not hundreds of dollars.

[@patmcbride9853]

Simplifying the tax code could do a lot to help.

[@bettyplant4793]

Good to know

[@NateHatch]

I just refuse to use tax prep software even though it's been (only a little bit) harder. Saved more money too.

[@geoffreydowdle5751]

I normally strongly disagree with this channel but this video was right on the money.

[@darkwing3713]

I have a suggestion for a series of stories! It seems to be impossible to get a diagnosis in the US. I think there's a lot feeding into this. For instance a series of bad diagnoses is usually more profitable then a single correct diagnosis, so Big Pharma has a big motivation to prevent accurate diagnoses - and they can influence medical schools. It seems like doctors aren't really trained to diagnose anymore. And the attitude that doctors have towards their patients is also a big problem. During the prescription opioid crisis Big Pharma and some doctors behaved like criminals - but it was the patients who were criminalized. If it wasn't for things like legalized MMJ, the suicide rate for pain patients would be at crisis levels. Also doctors automatically assume that all their patients are average. But they also assume that all their patients are stupid, drug seeking hypochondriacs. And that's not average at all. I also think that insurance companies stymie diagnosis What I see is doctors using an unproven diagnosis in order to bill. But then they stick to that diagnosis no matter what because they're already getting paid without making any real effort. Plus they get offended when the patient disagrees with them. And they ignore patient records so if you leave or they kick you out, you have to start over from square one and jump through the same expensive hoops. For unusual illnesses insurance actively harms patients. Insurance is only profitable for predictable events, so unusual patients are hammered into the wrong treatment regime where they suffer and die.

[@downanddirtytruth]

Really good video.

[@indianafred8490]

There are two possible ways besides giving the Government all the power; 1. Eliminate the income tax and move to a flat tax with one deduction for everyone. 2. First, Go to a national sales tax and again eliminate the income tax before the implementing it period. Both would possibly also eliminate the need for the IRS or at least downsize dramatically!

[@davidbwa]

Another road block not mentioned is the access to the free turbo tax is limited by a time window. Basically you can only use it during 'tax season'. Or at least it was that way a couple of years ago when I tried in an off time of year. And when it was open at a later time - I kept running into redirects trying to get me to go to the paid version.

[@dennisd9554]

I've used H&R Block software for years and typically accept that I have to pay about $50 a year for it. That includes a free federal e-file and I just print and mail my state return. I helped an immigrant friend do his taxes for the first time, and we did the "free" version online. It ended up costing about $120 when all was said and done because they hit you with all these fees for e-file and other factors that made for a more complicated return, and thus not eligible for the "free" software. I felt it was bait and switch, but at that far into a return it just wasn't worth it to start over.

[@hosseinseyedmehdi4426]

That sums it up: pay money to pay more money

[@KyraHogue]

I really hope they can get the IRS modernization from the inflation reduction act up and running before anyone tries or succeeds in gutting it. I understand not everyone likes taxes. You don't have to like the system to see that it needs work. And I hope the free file programs are up and running and work by 2025 for the 2024 filing season. Also, unless you have credits, try to have your refund as close to zero as you can. Paying less in withholdings or estimated taxes means more money in your pocket throughout the year. The IRS is not a bank, and you don't get any interest.