Rarran Reacts to

[@MoreRarran]

Near the end of the video, I was def tilted from chat and I misunderstood farfas point about "The Illusion". Im sorry for making a bigger deal than it is

[@jaroslavszaharenkovs6273]

@MoreRarran will you be posting the day 2 of magic VOD? Can't find it on your channel.

[@niedas3426]

Would've been weird not to get tilted at those comments lol.

[@lvl27_cubone96]

Was gonna say, I see what they're onto. Actually having windows into parts of the game that you enjoy every once in a while is far less likely to turn away new players than just getting comboed and set up on in a 5 minute cutscene. You're watching a movie trailer to your loss as a new player in ygo. I think him phrasing it as "an illusion" instead of just saying you get to participate in a game more kinda gave it an accusatory inflection, lol. Overall I think it's good that this is getting some attention. I'd imagine playing ygo now is like piloting a freaking Gundam suit in a card deck. Like the feeling of piloting a complex machine is kinda the epitome of anime feel in a real life hobby. But yeah, it's behind a lot of discarded ideas and a slower, more palatable package. It just kinda leaned into that "must be this tall to play" scenario as things moved on. I think it'd be really hard to pivot back to a more palatable game with where it's at. It's just far too power crept unless they start majorly incentivizing older, much more low power formats.

[@mz1bz]

how mature of you, but for real i honestly was worried about you raging out. keep it cool my friend !

[@lvl27_cubone96]

@@mz1bz emotions flowing when you're making yourself super visible to strong opinions does stuff to people. I have definitely felt like Ram Ranch(😉) here is of the more reasonable sort of people, just a tough crowd and a sensitive topic for many. I think a lot of people nowadays think gaming culture war shit is bogus

[@teslashadow]

MBT coming up with a new name for Rarran each time he mentions him by name is absolutely hilarious.

[@JohnnyMacs19]

That's what MBT does he's freaking hysterical

[@devinbannish1469]

I literally didn't notice until now lmao.

[@DoctorOaks]

The absolute best part is that I watched MBT's entire video, having watched Rarran several times, and it's just something that he so casually does all the time for different people/cards that I literally didn't notice until Rarran said something that he was doing it.

[@WavemasterAshi]

Rarran's new name is Hidden Valley Raranch and no one can convince me otherwise.

[@macemil1281]

​@@WavemasterAshiRastafarian

[@WinterGray8888]

I love rarran finding out in real time that MBT is one of the naturally funniest people on the internet but nobody knows cause he only ever plays yugioh

[@Trynottoblink]

Yeah, I’ve said it before but MBT is like if a theater kid were funny and cool. By far the funniest YugiTuber, it’s not even close

[@YeahTheDuckweed]

​@@Trynottoblinkonly yugituber I watch! And I don't even play yu-gi-oh!

[@danielzakgaim2764]

@@YeahTheDuckweed If you're not into Yugioh I would also recommend the Yugituber "Rata [RANK10YGO]". Even if you don't care about the card game, his edits and sense of humor are very entertaining.

[@gamersreactions9267]

@@Trynottoblink funny, i guess, but cool? Bruh you must be 16 or smthing

[@Celestia282]

Absolutely. If MBT hadn't pigeonholed himself into Yugioh content, he could have been huge. Of course, I get the impression that he doesn't really care, and he sticks with Yugioh content because that's what he enjoys.

[@fedarik9484]

First half of the vid: take a shot every time Rarran gets called something else. Second half: take a shot every time a graph is drawn

[@chenkaixiang2455]

is it still a graph if there are no axis

[@fedarik9484]

@@chenkaixiang2455 mate, I ain’t got time for big philosophical questions…

[@TheJinjitsu]

@@chenkaixiang2455 I have time to get into philosophical questions. A graph with no axis would be called an conceptual diagram, compared what you are imagining a quantitative diagram. Other types of conceptual diagrams are for example Flowcharts which also have no hard numbers to direct the arrows.

[@jesuschrist9677]

@@chenkaixiang2455 shitty graphs do still be graphs.

[@ibra8096]

@@chenkaixiang2455 we are too drunk to answer this shit

[@TheRealHiboman]

The biggest failing of MBT’s video is that he forgot his usual disclaimer about the Average Farfa Viewer. That would have helped Rarran SO much 😂😂😂

[@shapular]

Joel

[@yvnrv]

Joel

[@TheRealHiboman]

Joel

[@StarboyXL9]

@@TheRealHiboman You guys called?

[@TheRealHiboman]

@@StarboyXL9 🔑🗝️🔑🗝️🔑🗝️🔑 I’m jingling them, don’t worry

[@regisphilbin529]

I got back into yugimons after watching Cimo's entire progression series, it was like watching the game evolve from cavemen to acid trip in real time.

[@StarboyXL9]

Exactly. This is the way.

[@depalodor]

and playing it felt like being a caveman on an acid trip

[@matasa7463]

I would say it's more like Ancient Warfare to HACKERMAN.

[@TheBalticKid]

Rarran Made a tactical error by not jangling keys while discussing Farfa's video, chat would not have been combative at all.

[@Sp3llmen]

One of the best MBT moments ever. I have that clip downloaded haha

[@jefffregly20]

Face value what Farfa said was even if you horribly lose in magic, hearthstone, or most other TCGs you at least get a few turns to play since you're usually just summoning one card due to mana and passing. In YuGiOh you summon everything turn one so you have no chance to play anything, leaving the feeling that you literally didn't get to play.

[@Brazz27]

Yeah exactly.

[@Brazz27]

Rarran was already triggered before this came up, but they were agreeing on almost everything overall.

[@StriderYGO]

Rarran was too salty to see this unfortunately and started to pull up another aspect that didn't directly fit

[@marvynjeanbaptiste3206]

Imagine being a grown ass man who LITERALLY READS CARDS FOR A LIVING yet you couldn’t comprehend that.

[@jackrodriguez3404]

Dude acted like a massive baby anything far said heart wasn’t as complicated and went off on rants that complicated don’t equal better lol ? Ok far didn’t say it was or wasn’t just stated facts. I agreed with everything til I started seeing he was getting butthurt from any generalization of hearthstone.

[@bigdumber7242]

For some of your reactions you said they were treating it as a good thing, but what they were actually trying to imply was "Oh no, its much worse than that hun"

[@Eis_Cold]

Yeah, I thought that the sarcasm is really obvious from Farfa but apparently not.

[@skyrimlover777]

​@@Eis_Coldits only obvious if watch him all the time, turns out to most normal people hes an asshole

[@beegyoshi1685]

@@rickmel3883 sarcasm usually is obvious from his voice tone

[@ibra8096]

@@rickmel3883No since he said you have no idea as in "Yea this is just the beginning of the bad..."

[@funa2865]

rarran was like "I understand the damage step" oh my sweet summer child.

[@ibra8096]

Literally no one understands the damage step except dkayed

[@ZeroStrife1396]

I think his retort even was "I understand the battle phase, I get phases", which immediately indicates he did in fact, not understand the damage step. Good job, Konami

[@UmbreonMessiah]

Rarran losing his shit over MBT's purposefully bad pronunciations is the thing I live for XD

[@gamersreactions9267]

I think Yugiohs complexity and Nuance can be extremely fun, the problem is that you can only enjoy this after already hqving lots of experience

[@rantbot9176]

Its just so new player unfriendly - like personally i only kinda was able to get into it cuz I was super late to the party and decided to just not play link cards and even when i chose to play a deck with links it took like a month and even then I had to practice my combos it is just so hard to pick up

[@YukiFubuki.]

@@rantbot9176 its more or less the nature of a game being so different from all its contemporaries like you sorta have to go in expecting a game completely different from any other tcgs because people dont yugioh for a mana system surrounded by a different flavor of tcg, they play it because yugioh is just so unlike everything else that beign said i think finding an archetype or deck to get attached to really helps, because yugioh is so flexible in deck construction you can build upon that single deck that you really like adjusting and tweaking it as you learn to play the game in rpg mechanic verse its like learning to dungeon crawl with the right weapon/character, if you dont vibe with it its not gonna be pretty

[@PuchuKt]

Ah good old stockholm syndrome

[@popoch2]

@@rantbot9176 link is simple i thing, it's not ever pendulu or syncro pendulum or xyz pendulum

[@GaussianEntity]

@@PuchuKt It's not Stockholm Syndrome. I've been playing the game since the boomer days and honestly, the game is just different from anything else. Back then it was trying to squeeze resources with every card, earning every +1 in card advantage until you won. Then the DARK and Synchro era came where decks became stupidly fast but not quite like the modern era. That was exciting too because you got to do powerful bullshit but one false move and you could lose. Then the proceeding eras was basically a hybrid of the boomer era + the early Synchro era where decks can do dumb stuff but you had to grind sometimes to win equal matchups.

[@brolteon2740]

I think the fundamental problem of approaching Yugioh as a new player is that everyone approaches it based off what they know from other card games when it's literally impossible to correlate anything from any card game with Yugioh. No mana, no colors, no keywords, the only correlation is basically just there's a battle phase and even with that, Yugioh does it so differently than any other game with a damage step, damage calculation, etc. It's really more like a fighting game where you kind of can mess around and learn on your own, doing combos but it's not until you watch someone else play it and the combos just click and you're like "ohhhh i kinda get now!" it's very difficult to jump in and learn on your own.

[@juliuschuang6098]

Comparing yugioh to fighting games is pretty accurate, that half the fun is actually watching how high the opponent can combo on you lol

[@brolteon2740]

@@juliuschuang6098 it's so true and how a top tier player switches up their combo mid combo like yugioh even the slower decks are pretty combo-y and trading blows with your opponent that it's very difficult to enjoy it if you're used to traditional card games

[@corumba0349]

It's more like a coin flip simulator.

[@ashikjaman1940]

​@@juliuschuang6098 maybe that's how some came up with the VS archetype lol

[@juliuschuang6098]

Actually, master duel could probably afford to take more cues from fighting games. Even if beginners dont understand crossups, hotboxes and hurtboxes, they can at least see the health bars and watch the characters jump around. Master duel is actually kind of worse to follow as an outsider since the cards just randomly blow up or not blow up for seemingly no reason, and it's virtually impossible for a spectator to understand who's winning. At least in the tcg you can actually see the players shuffling/searching and cards going into the graveyard and back. Perhaps better UI design such that a high level turn is more visually apparent what is happening would be good for the game.

[@ipacklunches]

Even as someone who has casually played YuGiOh throughout the years deck building is one of the most daunting things.

[@RandomGuyCDN]

Just be a netdecker. there are way smarter people out there that poured hours into perfecting a list no reason to waste your time building when someone has already done all that work for you.

[@pamonja4301]

@@RandomGuyCDN but deck building its the best part and the most complex one, I have tons of hours into master duel and figuring out that I can use Diviver of the herald to summon Alphan in super Quantal was the most mind boggling thing of my life and wouldn't be nearly has fun if had just netdecked. Not saying that you shouldn't netdeck just that is fun to be found in building decks that you dont know the meta build.

[@HazeEmry]

​@@RandomGuyCDN if you netdeck you don't learn about the nuances of your deck. It sucks. Like playing MMOs with a guide

[@UshiUshiKakuThe2nd]

Here from the MBT community. Regarding MBT's last point about resource systems in YGO, I think he brings up the cards themselves as an example due to how few-and-far-between playable draw cards are in YGO. It's why Maxx C is so centralising of a card; seeing 3-4 cards into your deck with pretty much no drawback is incredibly impactful on how a game will turn out, simply due to how much more the typical YGO card does in comparison to other card games.

[@StefanDillandMarcRIP]

Other cards games are the same way though. Drawing a card is the strongest action you can general take. It's called card advantage in magic and is huge to improving and part of resource management. I think his point is that all games have cards as resources. HS is probably a bit less concerned on card advantage as a drawing and discovering is a bit more common, but it is definitely still a thing.

[@kevinz8554]

I would argue that the lack of playable card draw in YGO is due to the lack of an actual resource mechanic. You can print good card draw in MTG and Hearthstone because having more cards doesn't translate to more plays, it only translates to more options.

[@pretsal4955]

Also, unlike most Magic that I've seen, the entire deck in YGO is a turn-by-turn resource. A YGO player has to genuinely think about decking themselves out or completely running out of gas at every juncture way more than other games.

[@kingnewgameplus6483]

​@@StefanDillandMarcRIPin Yugioh, a card that permanently gets rid of a quarter of your deck to draw 2 has seen consistent play. Drawing is strong in all card games but its extra strong in yugioh

[@StefanDillandMarcRIP]

@kingnewgameplus6483 yes I understand. It's stronger due to the fact of no resources to play the cards. Other games still have card advantage though. The strength may very as drawing 1 in yugioh maybe be equal to drawing 2 I. Magic, but it's still resource management in any card game. It's a fundamental part of card games. The more cards you have the more stuff you can do. That's in literally every game.

[@11wuzzup]

I'm glad he enjoyed MBT's response. And I was even happier to hear you would be open to the idea of collabing with him. I think whether it's just a casual one off collab or a series(maybe where he can teach you yugioh at a digestible pace) it would be hilarious and help cross more players a viewers between communities.

[@jamontoastman9]

Mbt needs to be featured on a "yugioh player rates hearthstone cards" collab

[@cactusguy4363]

​@@jamontoastman9the problem is MBT has played a bunch of different card games, and often. He's familiar enough with Hearthstone that it wouldn't be content.

[@amuro9624]

I really don't think he's ever gonna play Yu-Gi-Oh again. Maybe in like 2 years when he's looking for something different to try but right now it seemed so unfun that there doesn't seem to be any reason to try again.

[@MagiRemmie]

@@cactusguy4363 But that is what makes it fun. Everyone else that does a "rate the X card game card" only plays one card game. It'll be different to see the opinion of someone that has knowledge on every game.

[@11wuzzup]

@amuro9624 I think this is doubly true after the farfa chatters were giving him hell on that stream, followed by farfa and mbt getting into a heated discussion about farfa takes on Rarran's video. Probably gnna scare him away from yugioh all together.

[@ColgateVT]

The change-up from the first reaction to the second is crazy lmao

[@DinoBat]

chatters were just being more dense and annoying than usual during the second reaction.

[@DreYeon]

@@DinoBat well yeah but he did get pretty angry fast by just simple comment that aren't even that toxic kinda a bad sign if you are a content creator idk. Hard to watch after a while.

[@benjamintrap7227]

@@DinoBatdude really blocked a commenter bc he said he lacks attention span and there is some truth to that

[@esupton783]

​@@DreYeonthat's valid if it's the first time that happened, but I'm willing to bet it was at least the 20th time he got told something like that on KZbin comments, and that's low balling it

[@OdelyxRa]

​@@benjamintrap7227There's a difference between having a low attention span, and not having any prior knowledge or way to understand what's going on. Not to mention God forbid you open with no interruptions (which he wouldn't know what those are) then you're just watching how opponent play and doing NOTHING for 15 minutes. I'd fucking check out too

[@wilfredfizz8164]

I would love to see some videos with MBT. He's not only entertaining, but he also has pretty good insight into the field of card games, so he might be pretty interesting for an advanced version of rating cards or something like that.

[@marvynjeanbaptiste3206]

chat should’ve gave him a full power swoso deck. Salad to a new player is wild

[@lamalogi2376]

If anyone is still confused about what Farfa meant by the "Illusion" of gameplay It's that in resource-based card games even though you have no conceivable way of winning the game you don't just lose on the spot. The resource system slows down the pace of the game so that you can take game actions. But since you have no way of actually winning the game you're just playing to lose. In Yugioh a lot of the time you just know on the spot how you're gonna do against your opponent just by looking at your opening hand and seeing what they play. You just figure out if you're gonna lose or not faster.

[@allegedlymichael8934]

His point does boil down to, you’re gonna lose against the world champion in both games, but in HS/MTG you at least get to play the game and feel like you’re doing something and have fun.

[@stefanokic406]

You get to play in both games its only that i hs its a game that takes 15 min and 15 turns and in yugioh 20 min and 3 turns its the same thing. All the intereaction that you could jave in a game you do in those 3 turns

[@lamalogi2376]

It was kinda weird to see him hyperfixate on the noob vs world champion hypothetical XD

[@allegedlymichael8934]

Farfa didn’t say it very well in fairness. He literally could’ve said this: in HS and MTG you get to actually play the game and have fun. In yugioh you don’t get to play.

[@stefanokic406]

@@lamalogi2376 he is so tilted and the fact that he is angry about the fact thats he was reading but he was not understand8ng i can see he just reads the words and none of them got into his head. Again he didnt really try to learn why was he dooing stuff he just clicked buttons

[@BanditTools]

Yu-gi-oh is basically the Marvel vs. Capcom 3 of card games and that is why I love playing the game. Both games are very overwhelming for new players though.

[@daedalus5253]

Examples of archetypes: Fnaf (fluffal) Buddhistic shonen Doctor who (Visas Starfrost) American football (U.A) and NASCAR (F.A.) Dragons (so. Many. Dragons) Undead (Vendread, Zombie pile, Memento, etc) Linguistic nonsense combines into what I assume are warrior-shaped atom bombs (onoma&co. + Utopia) Haunted armory that combines to another bunch of dragons (Phantom Knight) Dante’s Divine Comedy (Burning abyss) Lovecraft (elder entity) Castlevania (vampires archetype) (owned by Konami) Shooter arcade game (B.E.S) MMORPG (Generaider + Runic) Fish in space (ghoti) Spies (Spyral) Karakuri [historical Japanese old robots] (Karakuri) Romance of the three kingdoms (ancient warriors) Emo satan (darklord) *Anime story: Catholics (Dogmatika), furriest with guns (tri brigade), theater kids (despia), dragons (branded), robots (springans), Elecrticity (Springans), different robots (therion)* Modern fictional monsters (danger!) More furries with weapons (fur hire) Plants (Naturia, Rikka, Aroma) Sharks HEROs Isekai (Adventure) Frogs Birds Statues (Megalith) Lego Monster hunters (nekroz) Penguins Gods (aesir, sacred beasts, divine beasts, generaider) Walkyries Hide and seek (melffy) Robo birds (raidraptor)

[@samuelconnel2166]

Except MVC3 is way easier to get into and is fun from the get go. I can play against someone completely new at MVC, but with fg experience, without having to hand them over a study guide for them to read. The fundamentals are the same as any anime fighter. No one does, or is expected to do optimal ToD combos at the beginning. I had no trouble getting into it. Hell, Skullgirls is a way harder tag fg to get into imo, but it still isn't overwhelming. If I was to compare it to any fg, it would be Blazblue because of how insanely diverse its cast is, but even then, they all operate, at their core, the same as any other fg. To be truly comparable to YGY, the game would need to force you to read the lore in its entirety from the glossary and watch several videos explaining it before letting you play. YGY is truly one of a kind when it comes to the new player experience. The only game that barely comes close imo is DOTA2, but even then it's a lot more intuitive and fun when starting out.

[@Kainag314]

This comment blew my mind. You're so right

[@ASoldierify]

@@samuelconnel2166 As someone who has played both MVC3 and Yugioh I 100% agreed.

[@flockinify]

@@samuelconnel2166 Here's the thing. A lot of old school Yugioh players got into the game thanks to the anime. That allowed them to come in with a fundamental understanding of how the game is played, even if the real game has completely different tactics, they can focus on learning game objectives instead of basic rules. That doesn't happen anymore. In 2023, no one watches the anime who isn't already a fan of the franchise.

[@kalin310]

I think the biggest problem with keywords in Yugioh is that there are many effects in the game where it could be almost exactly the same effect, but changing a single word in that sentence could change how that effect interacts with other cards. For example, if a card requires you to discard 2 cards (not cost) to be able to do an extra effect, there is a difference between whether you discarded "those cards" or discarded "them." The exact word choice matters too much that if they wanted to make a keyword for certain types of effects, they'd have to make variants on that keyword to represent the different types of interactions.

[@TheEvolver311]

Yugioh would need to streamline and probably have a rules update to resolve. I've played Magic since 1995 and the game has had multiple major rules updates some of which completely changed how some cards actually functioned etc..but streamlined the game into a more intuitive play experience. Back in the day Yugioh seemed to settle on "no keywords" as a way to differentiate itself from others TCG's "hey intimidated by needing to pick up keywords to play a card game, well we don't have any" and that worked for awhile until it suddenly and rapidly didn't.

[@novacelest6381]

Ok, as a yugioh player you do not need a textbook in the cards to figure things out how they work or trigger. A great great for your issue would be: Discard one card from hand then destroy a card on the field. (This is a cost)

[@kalin310]

@@novacelest6381 Well, for starters, I have no idea what "a great great for your issue would be..." means; I can tell the second "great" should be a different word, but I can't figure out what. For two, that is not a cost as the required PSCT to indicate that it is a cost is not there. For three, that does not have anything to do with my point; the card effect discarding not as cost was a part of the context, not the issue. Discarding for effect instead of cost allows your opponent to chain to your card and make it so you no longer have one of the two cards needed to discard before the card effect resolves, while if it was for cost, you'd have already discarded before your opponent can do anything, so the difference in "them" vs "those" does not come up. The card effect "Reveal 2 cards in your hand; discard those cards, and if you do, draw 2 cards" does not work the same as "Reveal 2 cards in your hand; discard them, and if you do, draw 2 cards" even though they look like they should be the same thing.

[@Owlr4ider]

MTG has the exact same nuances yet it still uses plenty of keywords. For example the keyword exile was introduced precisely to distinguish between cards that go into your graveyard and cards that bypass the graveyard, due to how the graveyard itself can act as a resource in MTG, as it can in Yu-Gi-Oh. It's perfectly fine to have multiple keywords describing the same concept but with nuances, MTG has been doing it for decades.

[@randolphcarter6800]

Issue is YGO is just dumb And its weird and overly complicated rulings are just an effect of the low effort that was put into "standardizing" the game and its rules over the years (in particular in the beginning) The feeling it gives is that no one at Konami ever thought about the game going forward, they just kept coming up with stuff on the spot with no regards to the game's state outside of banlists, all while maintaining basically the same core mechanics we had 20+ years ago Keywords would solve little to nothing still though, exactly because the game is not as standardized as MTG in a sense We need official formats, a major rules change, or a full reboot, otherwise i cant even guess what the game will look like in 10 years from now

[@og_kush2165]

Dude is tripping, no one shits on yugioh more than yugioh players. As soon as someone brings up heartstone he turns to a squeaker

[@SonofIiberty]

A regular past time for tge average yugioh player is ranting about how Konami has fucked us over for the billionth time this week

[@celesticeyes]

As a yugioh player Rarrans Chat this video inflicted me with so much pain

[@supaonyxian]

As a viewer i would be so hyped to see you do a collab with MBT, even if its not yugioh related.

[@four-en-tee]

MBT is familiar with MTG, so maybe they could do stuff there.

[@iamabucket13]

​@@four-en-teeMBT has played Battlegrounds on stream before

[@Zakading]

@@four-en-tee He is literally named after a Magoc deck, after all lol

[@LegendLeaguer]

​@@Zakadingnah, everyone knows MBT stands for "My Bussy Talks"

[@lithreeum]

@@Zakading Obviously he's named after Marincess Blue Tang

[@Lyrog]

The most annoying thing about yugioh to me is that EVEN without changing all its flaws, chaos, and essay-level reading, they STILL COULD make the new player experience 1000x better if they really tried

[@nbassasin8092]

yeah they just dont care anough, most creators are affraid/dont want to straight up say it, but its just that the company never cared enough, or almost any amount at all

[@dreamerboy797]

Personally, I’m a Diamond 5 in Legends of Runeterra, Infinite around 2700 CP rank in Marvel Snap, and Diamond 1 in both Hearthstone and Yu-Gi-Oh! Master Duel. I think if you don’t know your cards or your opponent’s cards, it’s on you. You have time to read them, but you just ignore it and then blame everything else. I think a non-complicated card game suits you better, where you just read the cards once and remember them forever. In Yu-Gi-Oh!, you need to constantly learn new things because you never know when some lunatic psychopath might bring out a 20-year-old card to mess up your gameplay. So, you need to read not just your cards but all the cards. //i edit for easy to read cause my first language not english so yeah sorry

[@rafresendenrafresenden.1644]

There is something fascinating about how fast people get mad.

[@NewtBannner]

I love how he kept up that energy though, I laughed so hard when he called Yugioh players delusional assholes 😂

[@AnonymousProffession]

@@NewtBannner Considering the insane takes they had both in his twitch chat, youtube comments, and on twitter, yeah, I think that's a fair assessment of the Yu Gi Oh players he has to deal with. It honestly reminded me of Trump supporters with how in denial and unwilling to compromise vocal members of the community was, up to and including where even people "trying" to be helpful failed spectacularly to see what the original issue is.

[@miyu8823]

​@@AnonymousProffessionThat's just average farfa chat user, i could try to explain it, but u wouldn't get it, even farfa gets mad at his own chat bc how silly and dumb they can make some takes, not saying farfa promotes these comments, neither his chat is like a bunch of toxic people ( well at least most part of it ), but at some point, if you keep watching cl1Cir target Dante cl2 Dante target... troll despair, your brain just get replaced with monki flip.gif, and ain't too much you can do about it, if you know what I'm saying.

[@brutalnobody5240]

@@AnonymousProffession Clearly sure your profession is known. Don't just get weirdly political ,nobody knows what you're talking about unless they also have twitter installed

[@k-dawgHI]

Welcome to humanity my friend! A lot of people just can’t comprehend the idea of decency and coexistence. Some people just wake up and choose conflict. It’s hilarious and also super fascinating to view as a person who doesn’t fall into that category

[@Knax2500]

The reaction to the MBT video ends at like 18:00. Farfa made him go crazy wth

[@nirast2561]

It wasn't Farfa (though his video is 40 minutes long), Rarran had to constantly pause to tell Twich chat to take a hike.

[@aeowinh]

I think is better to say that chat make him go crazy instead lol.

[@cubandarknez]

it wasn't farfa, (rarran says so at the end of the video), it was the yugioh community in his chat.

[@muhammadaffry2123]

it wasn't farfa, it was chatter that pretend to be "yugioh community" in his chat

[@ChIMeRaTeX]

I don't think Farfa's sarcasm was the "problem" here. It was chat talking bullshit and tilting him even further and not helping him to properly understand shit but rather keep backseat gaming and provoking even over and over.

[@Novakun]

I agree with literally every point you've made but the one thing that is real annoying is that you think when someone says it's more complex, you think they're saying it's better. They make think it's better but at 1:09:00 when farfa is explaining the difference with HS and YGO you get mad triggered and say "that doesn't mean it's better" when everyone including your chat is telling you that he didn't say that. You've assumed that's what they mean. I watch you, mbt and farfas content and pretty much agree with all of you but that was a bad take.

[@Novakun]

and yeah the absolute heat at the end is such an overreaction to both the community and your chat, there are trolls but I was like scanning wondering how you were getting so mad at what they were saying and rarely was something just blatantly stupid. The start of this video was really valid and constructive but I feel that simple misunderstandings led to some really rude interaction to people who weren't coming at you at all.

[@MrzlLegendary]

@@Novakun it was all just a big misunderstanding that got way out of hand

[@rantbot9176]

@@Novakunmbt was really clear and concise. Farfa’s words and tone was not and chat made it even worse. Thats all there was to it - worse still that he wasn’t consistent with joking around or being serious while MBT sets the tone and keeps it while Farfa you have to interpret whether or not hes trolling or serious. Not disagreeing at all but honestly the misunderstandings all came from farfa

[@Novakun]

@@rantbot9176 I agree to some extent but while farfa joked around, his basic comments of talking about the games complexity was still completely misunderstood on rarrans end here. He just said it was complex and it was interpreted as "it's better." His "illusion" point is a little more convoluted but because of the earlier meltdown, it was again overreacted to making the situation worse

[@rantbot9176]

@@Novakun i agree completely- they didnt address Rarran’s points and chat would use it to try to say Rarran is stupid and somehow Farfa’s points disprove Rarran

[@bjarnivalur6330]

There are a few older cards that have 'keywords' in their text but then the keyword is immediately followed by an explanation of what it means. I'm pretty sure that every single 'Gemini', 'Spirit' and 'Union' monster has a large portion of their text explaining what those keywords mean.

[@Bezaliel13]

Better than expecting players to look up and memorize keywords if you ask me.

[@wickederebus]

​@@Bezaliel13at a yugioh player: I undetermined what Flying as a keyword means. I understand what Reach as keyword means. Piercing is a keyword we already have in Yugioh. We already use RoTA as a way to explain a generic search for a card of a particular (X). Anything that adds a monster from GY to Hand is a Salvage like effect. Anything that applies a "all cards sent to GY are Banished instead" is a Macro Cosmos to the average meta and casual YGO player. How many archetypes have a Skill Drain like card? We already have pseudo Keywords in Yugioh. All that having actual keywords would do is mandate a shit ton of reprints for the erratas, and make cards that do the same thing, say they do that thing in the same way.

[@Bezaliel13]

​@@wickederebus Sidenote: If it looks too long for you, just read the part before my Note. Rather annoying how everyone uses the same super basic keywords for their examples. How about Rampage, Amplify, Intimidate, Banding, and anything else I can pull with a google? Not that you examples made sense *for Yu-Gi-Oh.* How some keywords from the actual franchise, like PARTING GIFT, SHARED FATE, SHOCK, BACKFIRE, or OSMOSIS? Note: They were uppercased because I dragged them from yugipedia. "All that having actual keywords would do is mandate a shit ton of reprints for the erratas, and make cards that do the same thing, say they do that thing in the same way." No, for there is no way the over ten THOUSAND Yu-Gi-Oh cards can be summarized by a few keywords. Frankly, that statement is just dumb. Not to mention keywords for archetypes, like CYBERDARK or CRYSTAL BEAST. I know you think it would be OK because players reference famous cards to refer to _similar_ Effects, so the keywords could be completely self-referential without you seeing anything wrong with it, but they just are not similar enough for that to make any sense, even ignoring how very many keywords would need to be made. Before you start, changing Toon Table of Contents to "Reinforcement 'Toon' card" would not prove they should try for a card with more than one Effect. Having the game not use keywords meant Konami had to try extra hard to avoid cards having the same Effect with even the tiniest difference, so *no matter how much you try, yes **_try,_** to say* some cards have the exact same, that would not work no matter how many examples of cards with "Attack Force" you list. Seriously, the game has been anti-keywords.

[@randomprotag9329]

@@Bezaliel13 cause ones like banding have been uncommon and good at bet and irrelevent at best. its better to maybe have to look up banding 1 time than have to read an essay of card text on every single card i read reglardless of function being identical.

[@Owlr4ider]

@@wickederebus That's not all it would do. It would also greatly shorten the text on every card, and make it so that once you understand what a keyword does the next time you see it, on a different card, you can skip the lengthy explanation of what the keyword does as you already know it. Not using the keyword forces you to read the entire card every time in case there is a difference between that specific card and other card with similar effects, which lets face it is very often the case as both Yu-Gi-Oh and MTG have very similar mechanics with only minor nuances distinguishing between them, like the difference between putting a card into the graveyard or the exile pile in MTG. So rather than read the same text every time to find out whether a specific card is put into the graveyard or exile pile you just see whether it's a discard or exile effect by the keyword used.

[@jasonbennett6970]

As a concatenate person who has left and came back to yugioh. The biggest grip I had was the player base because some new material came out, and they weren't helpful. After learning from judges the right plays, the community is toxic and is too prideful to admit we need change for new players. Love the video, and agree this game needs improvement.

[@frogthejam2472]

Now mbt and farfa has to react to his reaction of their reactions

[@paulieswalnut]

Now THAT'S a resource loop.

[@martinprince8253]

@@paulieswalnut chain activated

[@SnailBot]

gonna call the judge for causing a loop

[@frogthejam2472]

@@SnailBot in yugioh it’s only illegal if it’s redundant, so even if every loop you only gain 100lp it’s allowed. The judge will allow this🤓

[@jouzea6425]

Lmao Rarran, Farfa is chill. MBT and Farfa agreed with you

[@JohnnyMacs19]

I haven't gotten to the farfa part but I'm assuming he doesn't get farfa 🤣🤣🤣 and how sarcastic he is

[@phoenix5029]

@@JohnnyMacs19 several others have mentioned this, but i will maintain that it wasn't Farfa, it was Twitch Chat basically pushing Rarran's buttons and tilting him.

[@rantbot9176]

@@phoenix5029chat was definitely like the source of all of the frustration and its even fucking worse that people act like its unprofessional or that his anger was unfounded

[@skyrimlover777]

Farfa didnt agree with him at all have you not seen farfa basically heckling him on twitter?

[@jouzea6425]

@@skyrimlover777 heckling lol 😂 they just did a vid together. It's Farfa he's a memer even rastafari knows. Sheesh

[@qedsoku849]

An issue with yugioh implementing keywords is that card effects differ in small but important ways, such as whether they target, how they resolve when parts of the effect fail, and what the restrictions are, there's more than 5 different "once per turn" conditions that all behave differently for instance. Theoretically, if we were to try to add "indestructable" as a keyword, it would only replace the effectively identical "cannot be destroyed" and would still have to specify what it can't be destroyed by, as it may be only monster effects, only opponent's card effects, only attacks, etc. Essentially, the issue is that there aren't many consistent effects to make into keywords ("search", "bounce", and probably a couple others would work), and if you try to make keywords for small parts of effects, you find that they usually already exist as 2-3 consistent words that describe that action (even if you haven't encountered it before) without having to memorize another keyword. ("What does excavate mean?" is itself a barrier to entry)

[@devinbannish1469]

True, something I didn't think about that much. Still whack that we don't have bulletpoints though.

[@KeshavKrishnan]

@@devinbannish1469makes me so sad. The ocg has numbered effects too

[@petrie911]

Having lots of effects that are almost the same but differ in small but important ways is kind of a design problem in itself.

[@devinbannish1469]

@petrie911 Eh, sort of. I like all the differences, it makes things intricate, but yeah there's certainly a downside.

[@StarboyXL9]

This is honestly my biggest bitching about the game. Forget everything else, while codewords make it easier for those of us in the know, its hell to even just explain them to other people.

[@zenbozic6184]

as a yugioh player rarran is absolutely right about 95% of things he says, its insane what some ppl say in chat

[@simplyyunak3189]

Jup ygo players defending ygo because ranran has a little attention stpan is copium from chat at max level. Ygo is fckn hard. Just showed a friend of mine modern ygo. My friend played only until gx. And ge does not understand a sting. Meanwhile i showed him a MTG match an he could follow it

[@hitsurei]

​@@simplyyunak3189yep, and you know what, this game is just major waste of time if you're not playing tourneys or making content. Ygo is the same as battle royale game, you're watching other players playing for 90% of the time if you suck.

[@prophetedubaroque5136]

I know i'm late to the party but even if he is indeed right on the yugioh is too hard to understand i think that we have gotten away from just saying no in repetition to the opponent. Though i don't play that much master duel so perhaps it's different there

[@mctmctavish]

As someone who watches you and farfa about equally. it sounds like you are both saying the same thing with different words. So when you were disagreeing at the end i felt so confused.

[@Zakading]

Our boy Rar-Ran not understanding a single iota of Farfa's sarcasm and going absolutely balistic was hilarious to watch.

[@rantbot9176]

Dude farfa says everything in literally the same fucking tone like no disrespect ive never heard this dude and I could not detect an ounce of sarcasm

[@Rynjinivar]

@@rantbot9176 It's because the sarcasm is basically only detectable if you know exactly what he's talking about in regards to the jokes he's making about mechanics and interactions lol. Kind of the definition of humor that's locked to a specific audience.

[@gamingzone_8142]

It's just farfa being farfa

[@rantbot9176]

@@Rynjinivar do you even hear yourself pull up an example and explain it because I would very much like to know if I had to be in rarrans place id go balistic too cuz unless you can somehow explain how both chat and farfa is not being literal it literally looks like rarran is getting shit on with the most delusional arguments

[@rantbot9176]

@@gamingzone_8142 please for the love of god like explain how hes being sarcastic or how someone like me can tell thats just a silly little character he’s doing - like what indication farfa gives that someone like me can know I shouldnt be taking his words seriously Cuz otherwise “its just farfa being farfa” just means “its just farfa being profoundly stupid”

[@darkwarriors6521]

I think it is not a hot take, that card games can work without a mana system. There are difrent ways to introduce recources and it is something that is underexplored.

[@YeahTheDuckweed]

Coldest take ever! Yu-gi-oh is 21 years old!

[@darkwarriors6521]

@@YeahTheDuckweed well yes but almost every other collectible card game uses mana as a baseline. And i think yugioh is a very bad example of how it could be done. I like the way dominion uses resources, tho it is a bit of a diffrent game

[@YeahTheDuckweed]

@@darkwarriors6521 dzeeff once made a video called something along the lines of "what if every effect in yu-gi-oh was once per *duel* " Kinda interesting I guess

[@anacreon212]

As a yugi boomer i actually got back into yugioh when master duel released. It actually took me a month to pick up modern yugioh but that was with looking at md tier lists. Building a tier 1 deck looking up how to play the deck, combo guides, etc For memorizing cards by just seeing their images it takes an additional few months since there are so many archetypes. After that though you kind of have learned how to speed read cards and what parts of the text are relevant or not. You understand oh this card works like this other card. It is not an easy game to get into. It is super fucking complicated where even people who have played for a while still misunderstand interactions. The "yugioh players can't read" meme is us making fun of ourselves at misunderstanding somwthing in one of the most complex card games to ever exist. I agree with everything you said in the vid.

[@SageTigerStar]

something else they don't really tell you about in Yugioh is BKSS. For those who read this and don't know what that is: "Because Konami Says So", it's a saying for when two or more cards have effects that are effectively the same/similar effect-wise, but Konami rules that they work in different ways during gameplay. (A now-fixed case of BKSS from when I played: "Fortune Lady Light" and "Earthbound Immortal Aslla Piscu" both have effects that activate when they leave the field and the terms of activation were worded exactly the same. However, for years Konami stated that if the monsters were face-down when they leave the field, Fortune Lady Light would activate, but Aslla Piscu would not. and just to be clearn, meta relevance of the example is unnecessary, this is just an example that wasn't fixed until around 2019 lol) Since I've been out of the game for a while, I am unsure if BKSS is still a thing, but I would hope it's been removed.

[@Saixjacket]

@@SageTigerStarthe only thing you can do is check with a judge before a tournament how they rule on that type of specific interaction.

[@SageTigerStar]

@@Saixjacket or during the tournament if it doesn't come up beforehand. Sometimes you just don't know if one of those BKSS situations will come into play. It does kind of seem like they're getting around to fixing some older rulings to clear things up though. Good on them. :)

[@lilsavage3512]

Y aren't these ppl understand Farfa point. And taking whatever he says as an argument 🤦‍♂️

[@harrycrosswell2844]

This has all been very interesting. I think the important thing with Yugioh is guiding people to easier decks to begin with and having a tutorial based around a selection of competent, but simple decks that can gradually introduce new players. Salads and dragonmaids were terrible first decks. To be fair to Konami, they do release one deck every meta shift which is clearly designed for newer players. Good example being Labrynth. You can make this into a casual stun deck, and slowly add cards to make it more powerful and complex. That said, I think Duel links does a good job simplifying the game enough to make it accessible... but unfortunately duel links is a scam :,D

[@ex.ver.5818]

Ok this was clever haha

[@FrosyTempered]

There is no way Rarran just said "He did not say hypothetically"

[@jakesnake5525]

I taught myself how to play when master duel came out. It was not fun. Only *now* do I find the game so fun. Half of my fun is building decks because I like to find stuff that works together and expresses my personality better

[@winniebeats5164]

Honestly, making decks is the most fun thing in the game. And then testing it makes me wanna off myself

[@Chestyfriend]

It wasn't like that for me at all, I picked a deck and learned it, then played it against other players, lost a lot, then started winning some, understood why I was winning, and started making and playing other decks from there. Yugioh isn't necessarily hard, but it's old and expansive, meaning you have to know a lot about the game.

[@derpdadouch3654]

One of the biggest lies in yu gi oh right here. Having the same hand traps as everyone else is not what expressing ones personality is

[@jakesnake5525]

@@derpdadouch3654 Do you only play master duel?

[@zexalplays]

​@@derpdadouch3654 this is how to spot someone whos never been to any irl meetings or card shops

[@metarayquaza980]

Farfa : A noob can't win against a pro and the end of the game is already decided when they start Yogg-Saron : Hold up ! Wait a minute !

[@isnanesavant]

yeah manaless dredge let me steal a game off reid duke almost a decade ago now luck genuinely can just GIVE you a match you dont deserve

[@chandgrit]

It's also possible a pro plays a combo or control deck with bad or expensive draws against a noob playing agro, and the noob wins cause the pro just couldn't draw outs to the board spam and face damage.

[@isnanesavant]

@@chandgrit facts, straight facts

[@salvatorefabiano8375]

@@chandgrit That's what happened when mbt lost against clayman ahah kzbin.infobizpQMBn_to

[@dasherplayz4471]

​@@chandgrit So basically every card game.

[@NeoZhinzo]

To answer the question of what people mean when they say cards are a resource in yu-gi-oh, discarding and sacrificing cards as a cost to summon others or just use their effects is more core to the design than in other card games. That limits the amount of things you can do more directly based on the raw number of cards you have access to, irrespective of what the individual card is.

[@byVariations]

You still missed his point. In ANY card game, you need cards to do things. Doesn’t matter if you need extra cards to play cards, the fact that you need them to do anything to impact your line to win makes it being a resource the same to other tgcs

[@vDeadbolt]

Force of Will exists in MTG my guy. The card is the equivalent of a Yugioh hand trap.

[@randolphcarter6800]

"discarding" or "sacrificing" cards as and example of resource system for YGO is absolutely nonsensical, it wouldve made sense maybe 10 years ago Rn, whatever you're gonna sacrifice, 90% of the time it wants to be sacrificed in order to generate value Cards in hand are a resource system in the sense that you're gonna have a limited number of options when the game starts, but thats really it

[@butterspike680]

38:48 I love this moment so much. If you know Farfa you know he's 100% joking, and Rarran reacting like it's genuine is so fucking funny to me

[@lordgrub12345]

Yeah he rly didn't take the joke did he 😂

[@ex.ver.5818]

The funniest part was that even a meme, that was also a fact considering how busted handtraps are. But we must also admit that rarran was being naive thinking people wouldn't use busted decks on a *WCS*

[@nouvelle147]

I'm seeing a lot of hate for Farfa in these comments, for what exactly? He almost exactly agreed with Rarran the entire video

[@Christian-rv4cy]

Cuz rarran is just getting needlessly angry him at time, misunderstanding what he's saying, or arguing against something he never said. As an example, rarran got mad and went on a rant saying "Complexity does make the game better, he's just coping" when that I was something he never even said.

[@nouvelle147]

@@Christian-rv4cy I think Rarran himself probably felt a little belittled with how everyone was saying that this game was complicated, so I understand his reaction. Also, holy shit is his chat always this bad?

[@Christian-rv4cy]

@@nouvelle147 wouldn't know, Ive only ever watched when he did any sort of yugioh content, but I'm sure most of the chat were people coming from his video and quieter viewers coming out after he started antagonizing the game and it's players so much

[@nouvelle147]

@@Christian-rv4cy I'll be very disappointed if all Rarran takes from this whole ordeal is that "Yugioh sucks its too complicated but its also dumb and people are insane for liking it"

[@Eis_Cold]

Probably because Rarran goes off on Farfa for points he doesn't actually think but Rarran seems to thinks Farfa actually does think thanks to farfa memeing and using sarcasm. The most obvious one is for me is 31:10 where Farfa pretty much goes "oh poor Rarran, he doesn't know how different solo mode is from casual and is about to be destroyed for it" and Rarran just seems to lose it on him thinking Farfa sees nothing wrong with that.

[@THPGoldenWind]

As someone coming to this from the Yugioh! side of the equation, I have to admit. When someone tells me they don't like the game or think it's too much, it's easy for me to feel some type of way about it. I think a lot of us do. It's easy to mix up criticism of something you love with attack. But rationally, I recognize just about everything Rarran says is true, and I'm upset more than anything that the game I love has lost a potential player, probably forever, because their first experience is so incomprehensible. It's like I feel the need to apologize for the fact that the company that runs this game I adore, adamantly refuses to make the player onboarding process any better. I do genuinely think once you get over the massive hurdle that is getting started, you can start to intuit what cards are doing, even if you're only seeing them for the first time. I think the longer card text while daunting may be a result of the anime, as characters are often describing what a card does in any given scenario in a very similar format to the text on the card, but that does feel like a moot point, and now that Rush Duel exists and supporting anime as well, the bullet point style formatting would be leagues better and yet Konami likely just doesn't want to reprint 10,000+ cards. It sucks to be in this position, genuinely. It sucks to see someone try a game you love and not enjoy it. It sucks that there isn't much that I, personally, can do to change it. I'd love to see Rarran give Yugioh another chance some day but realistically, I know that's likely not a possibility, and while that upsets me I do respect it. It's always a funny joke having people outside the Yugioh ecosystem look at our cards and go "Wow! Pot of Greed is banned?! That's so funny!" until the rubber hits the road and they have to try and play the game itself.

[@JohnnyMacs19]

And here's the main issue with master duel this should be the MAIN entry point for new players. It's easily accessible the cards are easy enough to get as long as they are craftable. It's just totally overwhelming if you dont kmow what youre doing. I mean since tear came in It's completely turned me off from playing. Imagine youre a new player and you go up against tear as your first game that's not fun.

[@THPGoldenWind]

@@JohnnyMacs19 I can't exactly agree with the notion that Tear ruined the game, at least not completely. I've played the deck, and against decks that are similarly powerful the skill expression is very fun. This issue definitely is though, that it further widened the gap between those who are just starting and those who are deeply in tune with the game. Normal Summon Gemini Elf isn't gonna teach you how to deal with your opponent playing on your turn.

[@johnnickfanaccount3492]

I think most of his issues originate from master duel and with that I agree entirely: master duel SUCKS. The game is meant to be played irl. It's a social game.

[@Stef861]

Its really not that hard to understand what farfa is saying at 1:23:21, he said that if you put a pro yugioh player against a noob yugioh player the game is just over in the first turn and you wont be able to do anything, but if you put a pro hearthstone player against a noob even the noob will get to play a few turns off the game before he loses, thats the illusion that he was mentioning, in yugioh there is no illusion if you are worse then you just dont get to do anything

[@GG_Nowa]

Tbh the illusion helps a player feel better but masks the massive skill gap but at the same time creates those toxic people say the whole I would've won if *made up scenario* happened who won't accept skill gaps are a reality that you have to accept but also can work towards getting better at the game too

[@devinbannish1469]

@@GG_Nowa It's not a skill gap honestly. In most games, in a pretty sizable amount of games, there are optimal decisions that are easy to make and assuming your opponent doesn't make a terrible mistake, the result is set in stone from before you even draw your cards. No skill you could've used, unless you consider building your deck in the first place, in which case, yeah. But still.

[@megamimikyu0720]

I’m of the opinion that the best way to learn yugioh without outside help is to look up a doomking balerdroch turbo decklist and learn from there. It’s the basic starting point for every zombie deck, is decently simple in concept (as the deck’s whole gimmick is sending the titular card to the graveyard and reviving him, like a zombie resurrecting), and once you learn it, you can throw in any archetype of zombie monsters to learn that archetype’s summoning mechanic while still having a recognizable list of cards that mesh well with your new cards. Shiranui for synchro, vampires for XYZ, vendread for rituals, mayakashi for links, eldlich for fusion and trap monsters.

[@VaskoKasko]

God, the whiplash of going from MBT'a scripted, well-articulated response to Farfa probably in his second hour on stream, fried, is funny.

[@tommieblessed5890]

28:56 yea it does there a huge difference between a card that says “ Target one card on the field and banish it “ and “ Banish one card one the field “ stuff like that barley scratches the surface lol

[@F2PAlius]

35:00 Rush Duels is a japanese exclusive variant (idk why) of yugioh that solves every problem rarran has with yugioh. Simpler effects, easier to read, same fast pace and tribute summoning actually matters. Also the card legibility is waay better. TLDR: it's like the Hearthstone version of Yugioh.

[@ShyRanger]

There IS a video game version of Rush Duels, I think it's just called that, so it's not Japan only. But I haven't played it, only seen some and it looks more story-driven so might just be solo, if so doesn't really count.

[@markos50100]

And it looks like it will finally come to the tcg either end of year or start of new year. It's just unfortunately as far as it's gone in the anime. It still suffers from komoneys greedy and useless card design inadequacies. In which booster sets where practically only 30% of cards in a booster are actually useful or good in general.

[@zeromus6460]

To Rarran's defense: He's mostly right about Yu-Gi-Oh. To Rarran's offense: He eats PlayDough for living

[@tbaggins5349]

Such a shame he didnt enjoy yugioh. Hed have fit right in lmao.

[@zeromus6460]

@@tbaggins5349 1) Ain't a shame really, who cares?! If he doesn't enjoy the game, he doesn't enjoy the game. Grow up Yugi-babs 2) What does your comment have to do with mine?

[@tbaggins5349]

@@zeromus6460 it was a joke. Saying that yugioh players all also eat playdough.

[@zeromus6460]

@@tbaggins5349 Oh, my bad. Didn't read the rest of the message. I just noticed it now. Thousand apologies ~

[@DarraghMontgomery]

Here's a fun fact: did you know that as someone who started as a Yugioh player I had many of the issues that you're having with yugioh... but with hearthstone... I didn't have these issues with any other cardgame because they are actually physical cardgames and have to take time to ensure players don't enter the game with a confusion but with Hearthstone the game was so simplified that they never actually explained how cards interact and that can genuinely cause issues for both players... For example: Flight of the Bronze is a combo card with Raidboss Onyxia The reason why? whenever you use it with 7 mana it summons a 5/5 taunt Bronze Defender... Which is counted as a whelp. Onyxia cannot take damage while Whelps are on the field. I never saw anyone else using this combo so I can't imagine it was very widely known but the reason for that is that Hearthstone didn't explain jack. Can you imagine being defeated by an immune Onyxia without understanding why it's immune? That's complete and utter BS, that's the definition of bad game design. What's more the descriptions of cards are not always accurate, for example Immune states that the card can't take damage, taunt states that the card has to be attacked before they attack face. However nowhere is it explained that if you give immune to a taunt minion that it removes the taunt. I literally lost the first game I did that in because it wasn't explained. Hearthstone may be simpler but that's not always a good thing, it leaves room for confusion and doesn't explain interactions. For example what happens if you use Amalgam of the deep on Amalgam of the deep? For people who don't know: Amalgam of the deep has all types, and has Battlecry: Choose a friendly minion. Discover a minion of the same minion type. Now how Hearthstone handles the situation is contradictory to how the card says it handles the situation. How Hearthstone handles it is that it gives three totally random choices. How it should handle the situation is it should allow you discover from three minions who have all the types, because that IS their type. But even the fact that this sort of question is just there shows that Hearthstone doesn't really explain jack. Were we to look at Yugioh we'd have a firm understand of what each, and every card does by reading the card. The confusing part comes in whenever you start looking at how that interacts with other cards. However you want to know how long it takes to internalize a deck in yugioh? Most people do it in their first game, you said that you learn what a card does the first time you use it in hearthstone, yea same in yugioh. If you're confused about how this works even with the longer effects it's because you'll spend time reading every card in your deck, doing test hands, balancing re-balancing the number of cards in your deck in literally any real life card game. you don't do this in Hearthstone because hearthstone is so simplified. If a card is particularly complicated it may take more games but the reality of the situation is that won't usually take more than a single day, in reality that's not really that long a time. However to a hearthstone player I imagine spending a single day doing anything with a single card must feel like an eternity. Because Hearthstone really focuses on that simplified gameplay aspect and it can honestly be fun, but it can also be a pain as stated above. But simple reality of the situation is that if you had a horizontal scale of card games Hearthstone, and Yugioh would be on opposite sides which is why there's so much discourse from people crossing over between the communities. Is yugioh bad? well if you exclusively look at what it currently is... yeah, pretty much but that's the thing, the majority of yugioh players see the potential in the game and want to be there for whenever it's realized, but they don't understand that... it was realized... years ago, what we have now are the broken remnants of what used to be one of the best card games around. If you want to experience Yugioh in its true glory then you have to play older formats. This is a sore spot for a lot of players because a lot of them also understand that they genuinely missed out, and others are fuelled by nostalgia for those times, and the sunk cost fallacy. Also a huge difference between Hearthstone and Yugioh is Synergy. It's a requirement in Yugioh but it's a suggestion in Hearthstone. yes your deck will work better with it, will you lose every game without it? no. Whereas in yugioh if your deck doesn't synergise properly you lose every game.

[@557deadpool]

And frankly HS is boring af

[@DarraghMontgomery]

​@@557deadpool Sounds like you haven't actually played Hearthstone. Simplistic doesn't mean boring, it means there's a low skill requirement for entry. One thing that Hearthstone does better than every other cardgame I've played is that it varies its gameplay between formats. In yugioh you have a handfull of formats. Standard Legacy Deck Master Multi-Duel Draft In Hearthstone, even just thinking about right now you have: 1. Standard (1v1 deck builder) 2. Wild (Legacy) 3. Twist (Legacy but restricted to a few sets to stop the most overpowered cards from all of Hearthstone constantly dominating) 4. Battlegrounds (A 7 person death match which prioritizes progression over deck building) 5. Boss Rush (Single Player game modes that give you rewards such as special cards, legendaries or rare card backs for completing challenges by creating your own deck or drafting a deck based on what you're rewarded in your run) 6. Mercenaries (An RPG turn based game mode where instead of cards you take heroes into adventure paths to battle consecutive waves of enemies and finally a boss.) 7. Duel (Legacy format where you can't have duplicates in your starter deck, can only choose from a handful of randomly selected heroes and classes, including some that can't appear anywhere else, with special hero powers and then you choose a signature card and with each game you unlock a new treasure which is a passive ability that effects your entire deck for the rest of the run, special card which is a card with an absurd ability, and also you choose from nine cards to add three into your deck. ) 8. Arena (Stock exchange; the card gaming experience) 9. Tavern Brawl (A new experience every week that often defies traditional cardgaming experiences.) 10. Book of Heroes/Mercenaries (A story based adventure path telling the stories of recurring characters and cards in the world of warcraft and hearthstone universes, which upon completion grants you a special card pack with class specifc cards ) 11: The Secret Gamemodes (If you want an actual challenge why not play Legend of Zelda in Hearthstone, calculate gravity with cards or solve a 2D, colourblind Rubix cube? If you do well enough you'll get this cardback: cdn.hearthstonetopdecks.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/av-puzzle-finish.jpg I did this, it was a pain but in the end it was also one of the most unique experiences I've ever done my history as a gamer let alone card games) The end result is if you describe Hearthstone as "Boring af" I have to assume you've never played the game and are desperately trying to champion your cause because to be frank there is genuinely a format for pretty much every type of card gamer in hearthstone. That said not everything is for everyone but by the same token I've shown that I have enough experience in the game to call out niche card interactions with confidence. How did you expect me to respond.

[@557deadpool]

@@DarraghMontgomery sounds like you're a fanboy who doesn't like it when someone criticizes your favorite game. I've tried those formats and they range from average to just as boring as standard Having a bunch of ways to play doesn't matter when they're not good. Even though I pretty much don't like every other format in MTG, I love Commander and Pauper. I don't like a single format in HS. Now would you kindly remove your head from your ass

[@DarraghMontgomery]

@@557deadpool Are you Blind? The comment you're responding to is literally based around the fact that Hearthstone ISN'T a perfect game, and has as many flaws as everything else, it points out that the bulk of arguments used in this video against Yugioh can also be used against Hearthstone with the same level of validity if not greater validity. Not to mention that I have stated many times in this comment section that I am an ex-Yugioh Tournament player and have backed that up in discussions and debates about the state of the game as exists today and how it got that way. I'm a day 1 yugioh player, if you want to vomit bullshit then at least make it smell good. In fact let's point out the flaws in your comment: 1. You're responding to someone calling out a hearthstone fanboy for being fanboyish and your whole argument is that I sound like a hearthstone fanboy because I pointed out the flaws in the game, but also told you that whenever you started vaguely complaining about the game you sounded like you hadn't played it. Guess what, you sound even more like you've never played the game now. 2. Hearthstone is otherwise known as MTG Lite because the core mechanics and inspiration in Hearthstone originally comes from MTG to the point where in the most recent expansion they released Titan cards, which are literally mechanically plainswalker cards. So let me point out the flaw in your argument. You literally just said you don't like MTG, Why in the flying fuck did you decide to play a game that is based on MTG??? 3. You know why you got so hostile so fast? Because I was right about you, you're here to champion your cause, you have no experience in the game and you've proven that. you have no clue what you're talking about, you have no points to make and to prove you don't have any points to make You had the choice to make a point but your entire comment can be summarised as "Fuck you, By the way I have played Hearthstone, source: Trust me" You could genuinely have made an actual point but the only thing you did was make personal attacks on me and use an argument that is contradicted by the comment that you are responding to. You have no fucking idea about this game, and you're just responding because you're pissed that you're as easy to read as an open book, tied to your face, with only that person's name in it. You are clearly a sad and insecure individual. Go back to paying absurd amounts of money to get a deck that isn't worth half its cost, Commander.

[@sriley4458]

yeah, you do get that thing of "this card does this" by the art but it takes immersing yourself in the game for a few months, since there are so many different archetypes and things you can do. Also effects are just more wild in ygo, understanding the difference between monster effects in ygo vs how creatures have effects in other games is really important. Also, if you ever get btfo by a deck in yugioh, ask the guy playing the deck to explain it to you and youll get it in no time. Game looks a lot harder than it actually is, my biggest issue with ygo is that its a bit auto-piloty since you're always assembling so much stuff it just seems like a complete waste of time. We used to have plenty of fun with ygo back when it had more intuitive monster effects and I think in trying to create an identity ygo has lost what made people love it in the first place.

[@Bezaliel13]

Big advantage of not relying on keywords nor doing set rotation is that they have to try to have cards be unique.

[@RandomGuyCDN]

Shouldnt have to "immerse yourself" in a game for months just to understand it. Anyone can pick up pokemon, lorcana or magic and understand the game through a tutorial or basic rulebook. YGO does none of that.

[@ivanmaterazzo2631]

Never seen a person being so angry at people 100% sharing his point of view about the lack of accessibility to the game lmao. Oh btw, using the argument of ygo being badly designed since it doesn't have a mana system is the oldest uniformed copium ever. And of course it always comes out from people who have zero understanding of the game they give an opinion on. I've both been playing at a good level ygo and other games with mana and you can be sure degeneracy and unfairness can easily came up in some formats no matter if you pay mana.

[@Populon993]

I'm one of these weird Yugioh people and just saw this video in my recommendations. When I watched the video from MBT I somehow didn't even realize all the different names he used. Was nice laughing alongside you. To this point about "the decks you chose are some of the more easy ones to get into": It was kind of eye opening to see how surprised you seemed about this. But it's true. Dragonmaids and Salamangreat are on the rather linear side of decks and since they also have Structure Decks, they often are considered to be THE best choices to get into this game. It's just this really strange thing in this game that a Structure deck isn't really playable on it's own...rather you have to buy one three times and "somehow" figure out which of the cards are the actually interesting ones. As to the Farfa portion: I'm sorry that you had to deal with the toxicity and gatekeeping that is way too common in this community. The topic about keywords/ formatting of card texts is a nice example...Yes, it is a big hurdle that most cards are giant walls of texts. Even the way they are written is pretty inconsistent. If cards would be easier understandable, it would be easier to get into and even for seasoned players it would make for less headache. Simple concept. But I kid you not, every time this gets discussed, there are some people arguing "Nah, no need to dumb the game down. It's your fault when you can't read and comprehend big walls of texts in a matter of seconds and put them into perspective to the rest of the deck. And if you can't remember every single card by just skimming over it once, you're an idiot anyways."

[@hurrdurrmurrgurr]

I wouldn't call dragonmaids and salamangreat good for beginning players, dragonmaids have a lot of points where you can screw yourself over if you don't know what you're doing and salad is all combo lines you need to learn. As much as we all hate playing against it, decks like Eldlich, Runick stun and other floodgate turbo decks are the easiest way for new players to get in.

[@vo1ce147]

​@@hurrdurrmurrgurr and guess what , it's teach you nothing, yes it's easy but you not growing at all, you just floodgates Andy's wait to flip your floodgate and win because opponent just tilt. It's like everyone said deck like dragon maid or salad actually a pretty solid choice just because it's not only teach you the basic premise of what Yu GI oh was being combo ball to the wall, also having merit to helping you grow as the duelist.

[@vo1ce147]

Like the problem is with the keyword we gonna have alot of it, and I rather having much simpler easy to dissolve like the ocg formating or even something better like rush duel formating, don't get me wrong yeah it's nice having something just read "when summons tutor 1 x card from the deck", but again we gonna have alot of since new weird shit mechanic gonna happen in Yu GI oh that may or may not bloated even the keyword.

[@devinbannish1469]

@@hurrdurrmurrgurr That's true. But when you want to start playing the kind of deck most decks are, Salamangreat and Dragonmaid are good for learning in theory, because Salamangreat does a lot of different things, and Dragonmaid is simple. But honestly, it's not gonna feel like you're learning when you keep losing because those decks aren't very good anymore lol. Honestly, I think you should start with the whatever the best deck in the game is. Then you actually know if what you're doing is effective without having to worry about if it's the deck's fault you lost 10 times in a row.

[@devinbannish1469]

Nah bruh, blood went crazy in the Farfa portion, he was immediately extremely hostile and derogatory because he couldn't understand simple points, and some sarcasm lmao.

[@brandonvanderhoff5678]

One thing that people tend to misunderstand about the resources being managed in yugioh is the importance of managing hard once per turn effects. For an example, tearlament is an archetype based around triggering the effect to fusion summon on the 3 main monsters every turn. Essentially the deck gets 3 attempts to fusion summon per turn provided you can get the monsters into the grave. Those effects are the resource being managed. Most yugioh decks have something similar to this, but how exactly this manifests varies from deck to deck. This is where the complexity and steep learning curve comes from. This was MBTs point from the end of his video.

[@gekikudo]

But that's still not really a resource system. That's game effects. A resource system is what requires you to work around to get those effects to activate. A balance to prevent over playing and keeping turns to a minute or 2 max. A resource system should make you think. Like assuming yugioh had one, "should spend X resource to try and do a special summon here or save x resource for a hand trap next turn?" You can kinda just do whatever you do and if you've got the cards while your opponent doesn't, you win.

[@brandonvanderhoff5678]

@@gekikudo saying hard once per turns don’t count as a resource is like saying tapping a creature in magic doesn’t count as a resource. Also keep in mind that there is a lot more interaction in the average yugioh turn compared to most other card games so saying turns need to be short to keep a sense balance seems ill informed. Ultimately a resource system is something that limits what you can do within a certain timeframe and hard opt effects do accomplish that goal.

[@gekikudo]

@@brandonvanderhoff5678 not really. Once per turn effects are still once per turn effects no matter the game you play.

[@brandonvanderhoff5678]

@@gekikudo I don’t know of a single game that utilizes hard once per turn effects in the same way and to the same extent as yugioh. In something like hs or magic, if I draw multiples of the same card, my ability to play both is limited by mana. In yugioh, you are instead limited by the hard once per turn clause on most modern cards. In other words, I have used my 1 out of 1 activation of a given card name. That is a resource that is limiting my plays. This absolutely has an impact on decision making over the course of a game. Alternatively consider a situation where you draw 2 monsters that have a strong effect when normal summoned. In this situation I have to decide which of those 2 cards a use my singular normal summon on. This is very similar to having only enough mana to play only one. The only difference is which game mechanic is limiting what I can do.

[@gekikudo]

@@brandonvanderhoff5678 pokemon, one piece and digimon. All have a resource system. All use once per turn like effects.

[@steel5897]

I unironically believe the best starting point for Yugioh is playing one of the DS or PSP games. Specifically, Tag Force 1, Tag Force 3, and WC2011 Over The Nexus, either of those 3 will work depending on what era of the game you want to play: Very simple GOAT-ish early GX (TF1), end of GX after they revamped the game to focus on archetypes but before 5DS sped up the game (TF3), or Edison-ish 5DS with an AMAZING rpg story mode (Over the Nexus). You can't go wrong with any of them. This is almost a secret because no one even thinks of playing those games, but I have an entire thesis in my head about how single player games with progression like that are the best way to get people into any TCG, millions of kids only learned the rules of the Pokemon TCG by playing its Gameboy game back in the day. If anyone is similarly confused at Master Duel and reads this, get an emulator, try any of those games out, I promise you'll have a ton of fun and you WILL learn the game at your own pace with tons of good content to keep you busy.

[@robertgreen6499]

So there was an interview with Richard Garfield the creator of MTG. He had mentioned that there is a scale from low complexity to high complexity if I remember right and he was comparing checkers to chess among other games. The higher the complexity the more of a barrier there is to your game to bring new players in. You inject into your game a chance of randomness as it gives that .1% chance for the new player to win even against the best. In a card game sense that can be the number of cards hand size, deck size, resources, how many cards drawn... It can even be something as simple as adding a coin flip or a die roll. When you strip that away you get a game that yes is a good game to play, but the curve is just too much for someone fresh to experience to some people the same pleasure you get when you play your favorite game.

[@YeahTheDuckweed]

Solution: play blind second decks! You'll never lose a coin flip in your life haha

[@nigerianprinceajani]

On the key words issue: Konami already implemented some key words over the years. "Excavate x" used to be worded "Pick up the top x cards of your deck", "banish" used to be "remove from play", "this card deals piercing damage" used to be "when this card attacks a defense position monster, it inflicts battle damage".

[@pete5516]

Is there a glossary in the game that tells you what each keyword does? If not then that isn’t a keyword system, that is removing info from the game.

[@nigerianprinceajani]

@@pete5516 Of course there isn't, we're talking about Konami here. Maybe they added like a page in the rule book I haven't read that in years. It does have the upside that those card texts affected by these changes are a bit more comprehensible if you know your vocabulary.

[@nigerianprinceajani]

@@pete5516 But afaik MTG doesn't have an in-game glossary for key words either (some cards just explain them) and it works quite well.

[@pete5516]

@@nigerianprinceajani yeah that’s fair, I don’t really see why they wouldn’t include it that seems like the absolute bare minimum (I am criticising both wizards and Konami here and tbh they both deserve it) but it seems like designing card games effectively is hard. What isn’t hard is to hire some people who know your game well enough to make a decent, up to date tutorial…

[@nigerianprinceajani]

@@pete5516 Yeah the Master Duel solo mode is complete garbage

[@Linkfan001]

Okay... Just going to point this out. YuGiOh did not aim to be like any other card game. Cause the game was not made to be a game first. It was cobbled together post-introduction in a manga. It is unapologetic in this regard. You need to take only the most basic understanding of card games and toss out the rest. It is fine if it was too much, not fun, etc. If he started in the synchro era, he probably would have been fine. But as Xyz, pendulums, and links were added, the game also had power and effect creep. Starting fresh requires at least a few months of careful study for the most basic decks. Those that can compete anyway.

[@YeahTheDuckweed]

Literally just not true. Yu-gi-oh was 100% a cute, shitty magic clone initially. Rarran would probably have a great time playing goat right? The synchro era of which you speak is definitely when an identity started to be carved out for the game. Edison is arguably about the time when we stop being able to jump right into a card game like yu-gi-oh and just "play"

[@Linkfan001]

@@YeahTheDuckweed It can't be a Magic clone. It is more accurate to say it is loosely inspired by Magic. Nothing about the two games have anything to do with each other. Monsters only have 1 round of combat in YuGiOh with big number flatten little number, no matter how small the difference. They always defend your life points. Monsters never become exhausted. There is no mana system. There are no key words. Etc. The best you can say is there are distinct card types and some cards have effects that are similar to the other game.

[@YeahTheDuckweed]

@Linkfan001 what you just described is a version of magic that requires some serious fleshing out haha Atk > def: simpler than magic Defending life points: thank goodness for that. Games wouldn't last long enough if they made watts in 2002 No exhaustion: true but there was trap hole No mana: true but there was the normal summon, and we're working with the "once per turn" system in the year of our lord 2023 No keywords: see exactly "piercing" (it's a sad state of affairs) All that and it was still conceptualised as a molasses-pace fantasy grindfest that was just never projected to be as successful as magic. And it wouldn't have been

[@Linkfan001]

@@YeahTheDuckweed or a game that is quite clearly not trying to be Magic but utilize the barest bones for its own purposes since the manga it came from was about "high stakes kids games." Something inspiring something else does not mean the two have to act on any way similar. That is okay.

[@YeahTheDuckweed]

@Linkfan001 tbf yu-gi-oh the card game was based off of specifically the shadow game that was a card game that was particularly popular ay. But I don't think at the time anyone who made a card game at the time had any idea how *not* to be inspired by magic right? Obviously it's ok; it happened

[@Asmodean1111]

I feel Farfa's view of other card games complexity not being as high as Yugioh is more a sign of him not understanding how deep some games go. Hell MTG has a layer system that I can say about 90% of the player base have no idea is a thing. Hell I only really know about it is due to a ruling that came up in a commander game with two cards interacting that wore never thought of being ran together. ( Humility + Opalescence) I feel most people have never seen what yugioh would be best compared to when it come to MTG, with legacy/vintage games being the closet thing to Yugioh's speed, and even then both players often play.

[@Tibasu]

One thing people keep asking for in Master Duel is alternate formats so new players, or people who don't like the massive combos of modern YGO could play that. Would be a better learning curve, and less word spam to go through to figure out what is happening, but they don't seem to care enough to give it to us. Although some IRL tournaments seem to be doing alternate format events. The people complaining you didn't finish the tutorial are coping hard and not understanding that no amount of tutorial is going to let you keep up with what is going on during your opponents turn in modern YGO. Farfa has a series where it's a tournament that bans the winning decks, and despite how many cards getting banned, there's still massive combo decks and First Turn Kills happening. Master Duel gave you a starter deck. The tutorial should have been how to play that deck at a basic level, then you duel other players with similar low complexity decks. Instead you went to PVP against people who seem to already know what they were doing with decent decks and had to sit through reading hundreds of words in a single turn, then try to figure how what to do against it. Keep in mind, IRL people would complain about Slow Play if you take too long trying to figure out what cards did and what to do. Master Duel makes things easier with button prompts and highlighted cards/text (sometimes) and it still feels like you spend most of your first few days playing reading dozens of cards a minute trying to remember what they all do. Side note: I think the only reason YGO doesn't use Keywords despite the desperate need for them is that they don't want to reprint cards with updating wording, or reformat the text on thousands of cards currently in Master Duel/Duel Links. Your opinion based on the first few hours of playing is what's going to happen to the vast majority of players who aren't just casually playing with friends. Maybe if more people tried YGO and came to a similar conclusion and made videos/streams about their new player experience, Konami might actually try to make a change. But probably not.

[@HoppouChan]

"I understood the damage step" - I lol'd Damage step has some of the most needlessly complex rulings in the game, that don't come up like ever, but if they do, they ruin your day. In short, you have 5 different substeps, and different restrictions on what cards can and cannot be activated during each substep. Also @1:02:42 - I dont think the 6 months is accurate. I've started the game (admittedly again, after playing a bit on the playground, and the DS games) in June last year, with Dragonmaid in the TCG, and the amount of understanding most yugioh players have (what does this do, are there relevant restrictions) is like...5 times + a basic guide. Like, half of the card is basically fluff during a turn, which you can ignore. "This [card names] effect can only be activated once per turn" - no line would try to use it more often, because of exactly that. any type of lock - if you are aware of it, it's relevant. If not, it is basically a deckbuilding restriction, so you dont have to care anymore once you hit play. The big issue here is that cardtext is formatted worse than your average 4th grade essay, and thus impossible to get the relevant info at a glance while playing against it.

[@LiMe251]

The card text is pretty simple imo

[@illdoittomorrow2368]

declare attack battle step start of damage step in damage step before damage calculation damage calculation after damage calculation end of damage step

[@rajkanishu]

​@@LiMe251 for someone that comes from Hearthstone it absolutely is not

[@JesperoTV]

And it's SO SAD that this is the case, because Master Duel has THE BEST monetization out of all the card games. I've literally spent nothing on the game and I got to play my favorite decks almost right away. And then I go play Magic, and I can't even finish my fucking one izzet deck, because all the dual lands are rare

[@corrinthechocolatine4025]

AHAHAHAH. Master duel has the best monetization?! That's a good one, you only get enough ressources to craft maybe one or two good decks, that will be either trashed out by the next banlist or get completely overwhelmed by the next meta deck. If you want an actual FTP user friendly game, go play Gwent or Runeterra. Both games are also way more enjoyable.

[@SHAO_L1N]

​​​@@corrinthechocolatine4025Nah I have like 20 different deck FTP in master duel including some stupidly expensive ones (UR wise) like Endymion. The monetisation in MD is legit very good

[@superfactorial5717]

​@@corrinthechocolatine4025thats not even true. Starting the game, completing the tutorial and some solo modes will net you upwards of 8k gems at the very start. Thats enough for at least 1 or 2 different decks immediately, and if you want to play the structure decks they are even much cheaper since they only cost 1500 gems for a playset. You just need to pull for or craft the staples which you can just share with your other decks. and just by playing the monthly event and playing rank semi regularly you can get upwards of 5k gems monthly maybe even more, and thats enough again to get a new deck every month if you want. I also love that you imply that master duel banlist trashes meta decks when they are hated by the community for not doing anything lol

[@L_Kay]

​@@corrinthechocolatine4025actually I think it's quite free to play friendly monthly you can stack another gems to create new decks and I never feel pressure to buying gems

[@devinbannish1469]

@@corrinthechocolatine4025 I'd rather not. Anyway, you do have to not waste your resources, so there is knowledge it would be helpful to have for sure. But I wasted plenty of resources because I didn't know how to play modern yugioh and I'm still winning with the deck I made near launch, after really learning how to play.

[@cardsmith3728]

Streamer loses his mind after reacting to creators who agree with him because of “guy in chat”.

[@nouvelle147]

Appears to be the case, yes

[@devinbannish1469]

2nd half was a bit unhinged especially at the end. I didn't pay a lot of attention to the chat, but like, I can't fathom how it could it possibly warranted some of those responses lol. Especially when noting how badly he missed the point on like, the entire Farfa video, especially near the end.

[@JromLoy]

I think a good start for Yu-Gi-Oh! is the Edison format. It has a competitive side (konami held events), a great community (there's an online page constantly uploading events, decks, and the like), a "paused" format (since it's a past format, no more cards will be added to the pool), and, most importantly, it's fun. I wish you luck in this endeavour!

[@Kameratyp]

local hearthstone player discovers MBT colorized

[@ericbayer123]

Will say, 4:49 the solo mode is kinda fun as it shows the story of the cards you are playing with and the cpu isn't complete dogshit half the time.

[@zeldalevelmaker9912]

People that say "YGO players get offended when you criticize the game" honestly don't know what they're talking about because we're well aware of the issues with Yugioh and even meme about it (e.g. "he did play he used 2 handtraps"). The game is far from perfect but it is a true statement to say that it is geared toward a niche audience. Yugioh is all about learning combo lines and win-conditions for your deck, having a game plan if you go second, and knowing specific choke points of decks where you attempt to interrupt an opponent's vital play. Unfortunately to learn any of this you have to use a third party source lmao but I for example got into Yugioh because I liked the idea of all kinds of decks having unique intricate combos

[@YukiFubuki.]

i mean criticizing anything and expecting the community to not have an even a iota of issue with it is itself a delusion honestly, not unless you actually have a reasonable take but as many people pointed out hes right for all the wrong reasons and if anything this video is actually even more damning to his edited version on his main channel like for those like me who didnt watch his full stream and only saw the edited down version some of the complaints about him not reading his cards is valid because of how little we see him do it and when he does do it its in the middle of the duel which is the worst time to do it so it sorta explains some of his mistakes when hes just clicking buttons because it glows however confirming that he did read the cards sorta just takes down the excuse since it means he has deliberately choose to upload the edited version framing himself the way he did

[@zeldalevelmaker9912]

@@YukiFubuki. Yeah it's definitely odd that YGO players are basically like "we agree with you our game sucks!" That's obviously hyperbole but you get the point. To the whole reading cards thing, I get people don't wanna read paragraph after paragraph during combos but you gotta at least read the end board cards so you can have an idea how to approach it. The thing about reading a bunch though is that as you keep learning combo lines of different decks you don't have to read so much if at all because you already understand what cards do what and where the combo is leading, but again, you need a third party source to teach you because otherwise you're gonna be staring at text for ages and getting overwhelmed. That's just how it is with Yugioh, either you have the drive to invest your time into learning or you don't.

[@YukiFubuki.]

@@zeldalevelmaker9912 i not fully convinced of needing a 3rd party though, ive seen enough comments on people getting into the game on their own to believe that a coach of sorts isnt absolutely necessary but it would definitely make things easier personally im sorta proof of this being rather self taught in yugioh for the most part, had a friend get me into the yugioh but he taught me squat except how to hate six samurais as he always played against me with it holding nothing back even when i was literally a newbie who knew nothing beyond the anime so i taught myself how to beat his ass and in the process learn the game, this was in like late synchro era through so it wasnt as complicated as it was now but its really something facing down quasar turbo while piloting… gustos i did stop playing aorund 2013 or 2014 and only got back with master duel so i am 1 of those returning players from a much slower format and this time i truly had no one but myself and the Internet but it didnt take me more then a week or two to fully induct myself even if i still had certain options that would identify me as something of a yugiboomer id also like to say that a coach and a teacher is 2 differnt things that people keep getting mixed up together; a teacher is thr one that informs while a coach is one that advises instead, they can overlap but their primary job is different like if he jsut had someone tell him to simply read what the player has on board and not everything at once or onyl SR/UR cards during the duel this wouldve still gone a long way even without infodumping him anything he also keeps having presumption about yugioh like he doesnt need to learn all differnt decks and archetypes, just enough of the common effects players come across like been outside of archetypes there are many effects are alike sharing the same if not similar result but differ in process or method so they arent exactly alike but knowing jsut one of them wouldve prepare him for soemthing similar and this is something a coach could do; advise him what to watch out for, teach him how to read the board state and how to expect some common plays or even how to deck build

[@LoskiBroski9352]

"the fact that you get to play and activate your cards provides the illusion of gameplay" Sounds to me like Yu-Gi-Oh is the one with an illusion of gameplay. You recite your testicular torsion incantation that you memorized and the game is just over.

[@__-be1gk]

"IMAGINE GOING 'HAHAHA' HE'S GOING INTO CASUAL. WHAT OTHER GAME IS LIKE THAT'" ...hearthstone?

[@kintsuki99]

About the illusion of choice: Say you are playing against mage OTK but you are playing pirate rougue, you already lost and there is nothing you can do to win this game but you still get to play cards and attack but you never actually could play the game because the result would be the same doesn't matter what you did.

[@lowkeyprettybad6780]

One thing I haven’t seen anybody say is there aren’t new players on master duel. If you’re going into ranked at the bottom you’re going up against people who just crafted the tier 1 meta deck and are ready to start climbing or someone who has experience who is coming back after a hiatus. Only when you get to the middle of the pack do you really see any diversity in strategy and more rogue decks that aren’t turn 1 negate everything you do on your turn. I try to comfortably sit in gold and that’s where I don’t often run into tier 1 stuff but I do still have to fight for the win with my midrange deck. There is just a very small conceivable chance that you will get matched with someone else learning the game starting out.

[@connermorgan9223]

Yugioh USED to have none of these issues. When the game came out and for several years later I’d say it followed the accessible design philosophy you pointed out. Power creep really is the barrier here.

[@OccamsLazer]

YGO players love to think that their game is the most difficult to play when it's actually just the most difficult to learn. The floor required to play is way too high, but the ceiling isn't any higher than other card games.

[@paranidherc]

Breaking News: Player who can't grasp a complex card game thinks it's bad because it's complex. After literally not even reading his own cards. 85% of what you need to know is literally on your cards, 10% are in the tutorial and the 5% rest are obscure shit like activation timing. There is no way to make a better tutorial, because the game can't read your cards for you. Seeing Acesscode Talker showing you your REMAINING options after each activation and just clicking even though it was the only option left after the last activation isn't the game being complex, it's not wanting to think and just click whatever glows.

[@SolarityVision]

Chatter energy

[@paranidherc]

@@SolarityVision Nah, I just learned the game without any coaches. Is it complex? Yes, but why is it a bad thing? Dwarf Fortress is complex. XCom is complex. Darkest Dungeon is complex. I don't see people whining.

[@SolarityVision]

@@paranidherc Breaking news: people have different opinions on what’s fun and what’s worth their time. didn’t know those one time purchasable games are comparable to a constantly evolving card game which you have to keep purchasing cards or buying gems to “have fun”. Even if you don’t buy those cards you still have to keep up with them mechanically and knowledge wise. I’m sorry if those who picked up a game and found out it’s not worth their time to constantly dump hours into learning it to “have fun” is not up to your standard.

[@paranidherc]

@@SolarityVision Pff, fine, Stellaris then. Keeps being expanded and reworked. Warframe. Path of Exile. Complexity IS a selling point for many people. And it is one for YuGiOh cause they don't want to play the 50th iteration of Hearthstone. LiL bro claims he plays card games for a living and it's all just the same game with different skins. Now he ran into a game that actually has more than 3 rules and he ragequit. Imagine needing 40 minutes to click together 40 cards XD

[@SolarityVision]

@@paranidherc cant comment on Stellaris cause I never heard on that game, but Warframe is a primarily PvE game you can go at your own leisure. I only had a minor stint in Path of Exile, but that was a PvE game as well. Looking through a Warframe guide during one of your early game missions is a lot different than trying to look through a guide on how to build a board with your deck with a time limit while your opponent is interacting with you. Also Warframe and PoE is all about progression which is not comparable to Yugioh which is a PvP (lmao) card game where there is no progression set by the developers and any player can use any non-restricted card for their deckbuilding. Are there games more analogous to Yugioh? I can think of fighting games which share a lot of the same traits like fast pace, complex combos, etc, but those games are also notorious for being daunting to new players as well. "LiL bro claims he plays card games for a living and it's all just the same game with different skins." Lil bro claims he learned themselves some Yugioh, but doesn't understand the struggle and bashes others when they are frustrated and makes mistakes, under the pressure an audience as well. Sure, whatever you need to do is on the card, but card texts on TCG is objectively bad and you're coping if you think otherwise. Sorry not everyone has the same stamina or time to grind their hours.

[@AndrewRogue]

I said it before in Rarran's original video and I will say it here as well. The main difficulty in YGO is that all (essentially) the decks are synergistic combo piles designed to ladder various effects into each other, which provides pretty much no good entry point for new players because you have to understand the way the cards synergize and can't just take them as you see them. Like, I've played a lot of TCGs (and tabletop games in general) and YGO is the only one where I have so regularly and aggressively hamstring myself by triggering effects in slightly wrong orders. And yes, some of this is just me being dumb at times. And also this is not say that you cannot play other TCGs badly or anything or that like playing handing a new play an Ironworks deck in Magic is gonna result in a better experience for them. It is just that the -way- you end up playing YGO wrong as a new player can be exceedingly frustrating because it is all combo play and there is no real "Red Deck Wins, go face aggro" equivalent to help keep new players low to the ground (but effectively actually playing the game) when they're learning. And to be clear. I am not good at YGO by any stretch of the imagination. But I -have- had fun and I -have- gotten those matches with real solid back and forth where I can see why people really fall in love with the game. I just think the core problem for onboarding new players is incredibly obvious and also very difficult to solve and want to reiterate that as somebody who has played a LOT of games over a LOT of years.

[@janehrahan5116]

To be fair. I can actually think of a decent somewhat exception. Sky striker. I mean the pure one not the access code variant. A bunch of simple +1 effects. There are a couple others like that where it's pretty easy to figure out what they do and how to use them. But generally I agree.

[@israeldelarosa5461]

This needs to be the top comment

[@Merilirem]

Which is why we need formats and ways to play like MTGA that let people start small. If Dragonmaid was the most complex deck allowed in a format people would be able to handle it.

[@r3zaful]

​@@janehrahan5116playing sentouki/striker requires YOU to be able to know the inside out of your opp deck means you have pilot your opponent deck. You think it's easy? Absolutely not

[@Narium413]

@@janehrahan5116 But playing Sky Striker requires you to know your opponent's deck and what to negate and take.

[@picochap]

Legit the only way I got into Yu-Gi-Oh was playing progression with my friends during lockdown. Only one of us was slightly knowledgeable of the game, and it took a long while to learn, but its the best way to actually play it. You learn what came out when, have an understanding of the power creep that progressively happens, and also the history of the game. Master Duel is not the best when it comes to teaching, because you have to speed read 25 years of card text in order to understand anything. Meanwhile with MtG you only need to understand the last few sets. YGO is a time investment that streamers or casuals can't just jump into without a handhold, and that sucks.

[@JohnnyMacs19]

I honestly think him doing a progression like series would be a good way for him to learn. Master duel should have a draft styled progression format

[@mopyouup7910]

There may not be official "keywords", but to say that's its not possible to have them in yugioh is not true when the community has come up with our own key words for effects. Destroy one card on the field: pop it Return a card to the hand: bounce it Shuffle a card back into the hand: spin it Add one "salamangreat" card to your hand: rota for salamangreat Etc.

[@StefanDillandMarcRIP]

Tutor is the mtg term and might make more sense than rota just cause new players won't know what rota does.

[@AniGaAG]

The problem with keywords would be that YGO! card effects don't follow fixed patterns and types of effects. They are just whatever the card designer feels like making the card do, and some outright disable or circumvent base mechanics or rules. It just wouldn't work, and it's the reason modern YGO! is so crazy.

[@rajkanishu]

That is true, but not completely. Some lines of text are the same every time, stuff like "add x card from your deck to your hand" or "you can only use this effect once per turn" and those would be perfect keywords

[@AniGaAG]

@@rajkanishu You could probably introduce H1PT and S1PT as keywords or icons to replace written out hard and soft once per turn restrictions.

[@drstrangelove77]

At this point you have to collab with MBT. Not to necessarily learn Yugioh, but to see what other names he can come up with for you

[@StarboyXL9]

Based

[@zanki9838]

If you gave people an option to play like 2010 yugioh on master duel, people would get instantly hooked.

[@MRkriegs]

Bro 2003 yugioh

[@HieuTran-xl5oz]

2010?you mean the time monarch and GB slap my ass🐧

[@zanki9838]

@@HieuTran-xl5oz Nah edison is fair mostly.

[@eevee4]

​@@zanki9838 its so fun, i wish new players were more easily exposed to edison format so they could experience the joy of the tutorial ACTUALLY teaching you the game 😭 its the perfect way to get introduced to yugioh in general

[@r3zaful]

​@@zanki9838you ask master duel to give tcg banlist when it managed by Konami jp? Are you serious? The closest you can get it infernity ocg format And oh boy you're not going to like launcher summon at 3.

[@d8RAV0b]

This entire ordeal gave off similar vibes as a review of Yahtzee for MH Tri. In the same vein that he as a reviewer when approaching a fairly tedious methodical game couldn't adapt his routine approach of scratching surface level of gameplay - to something else to see the game for what it is (ultimately failing as a reviewer in that regard), Rarran couldn't (I assume) let go of his card gaming experiences and a position of an entertainer\content creator - to adopt a realistic approach for learning YGO. All of the criticisms about YGO or MD expressed in the video responses\essays may be entirely correct, like technically correct, the best kind of correct, but for a person that would genuinely want to get into something - this was done wrong every step of the way (why set a timer, why stream, why refuse most external resources of information, why the game must be learned within a single session etc.). Which leads me to a conclusion that this was not a genuine attempt and at best was performed from a casual standpoint where a person doesn't want to dedicate any time or attention beyond what's minimally required. Rarran has a pleasant personality (when not allowing himself to be triggered by random chatters) and most adequate people didn't take offence from this situation, seeing it just merely as an entertaining content. It's just kind of jarring to see this situation reviewed mostly from a perspective of an altruistic activism where the thing must be improved for other peoples enjoyment, instead of a trainwreck that is a failure of naturally approaching a thing on a personal level. Because in actuality, if someone is genuinely interested in this game, MD YGO is not an unapproachable piece of garbage that everyone is making it out to be.

[@SakuyaFM4]

I equate learning YGO to learning a completely new fighting game and picking up a new character with zero experience in any video games. It sucks.

[@skeletingking]

Counter-Counter Point, Yugioh Resources are the cards and the text printed on them, cards are inhibited by their own limitations, it's why card draw is such a desired resource in Yugioh. You're willing to remove 1/4th of your deck from the game for a +1, because that's actively rolling the gacha of getting more cards that can do more things.

[@HaxDotCombo]

The decks playing and pacing themselves so differently bc there isn't a core tempo resource like mana is a big appealing thing, but it also gives Yu-Gi-Oh the exact problem of telling someone to learn a fighting game character. That being said, Konami has also been ass at giving beginners resources. Hopefully the new two-player starter deck coming out will inform the design of official guides. Right now, papeer structure decks don't come with a rulebook and the rulebook PDF you can read on the official website is outdated. Instead of updating the rulebook they link a BLOG POST with changes in it.

[@KyleRoller24]

I learned ygo alone by watching a lot of tutorials and reading a lot of articles on tcg websites. It took nearly as much studying as a 200 level undergrad course. I do really enjoy the game but trying to convince any of my friends to put themselves through that is just never going to happen. the only ppl getting into the game these days are either ppl that have a lot of experience in other card games (even still means so little w how unique ygo is) or stem major types that legit enjoy the research almost as much as the actual playing. I had two accounts in diamond before they released Master rank and I still can't play one of these full gas combo decks even w years of experience. I have two or three decks that I know I like that I stick to. The argument the game is not too complicated is completely insane. It just is.

[@U1TR4F0RCE]

personally, the way I got back into Yugioh at the start of Covid was rank 10 Trains and then Crusadia with Kaijus. a rank 10 trains deck can sometimes work even just when clicking buttons and Crusadia's style of straight forward nature means it's relatively easy to play as it's mostly just laddering to equimax otk

[@nerazim1110]

I unironically learned how to play from the anime. Well, mostly, I had to figure the rest out by myself, but the most part of the basic knowledge came from the anime

[@cinnavocado]

Real, I never understood people coping that it isn't that hard or even that it's easy. For new players, it's like a new language. Not unlike you, someone who went to plat on release and then diamond before master (stopped playing for a while ever since that update), I have a handful of decks I stick to because I took the time to learn and play with them and I still don't have all the interactions and mechanics memorized. Luckily, when you aren't playing competitively you can get away with just a normal understanding of your deck and the interactions IT encounters. But there is an issue that you need to learn basically a baby judge quiz just to play casually without issue.

[@blanahaha]

Yep the only types of people that I know that have stuck with master duel past the "I want to play the cards from the anime" phase are the studious or hyper competitive types. Because yugioh requires an overwhelming amount of knowledge to play your own deck let alone figuring out wtf your opponent/s are doing.

[@KyleRoller24]

@@U1TR4F0RCE yeah I learned w eldlich that could make gustav OTK

[@dartmansam10]

Rarran getting super angry is never fun to watch. Your best moments are when you're giggling, having fun. You get tilted sometimes and thats okay, but then you start misunderstanding what people are trying to say and chat isn't super helpful because they use short answers and it just propagates itself and then you tell them to fuck off when they're trying to untilt you which is like ahhhh dude come on. Seen it happen a few times in vods and it isn't fun to watch so i imagine it must REALLY suck for you personally. Just don't really want to see you burn out cause I love your content 99% of the time.

[@557deadpool]

Rarran is a simpleton

[@dartmansam10]

@@557deadpool you beat off to your own profile pic, opinion discarded

[@557deadpool]

@@dartmansam10 I don't, but you listen to a dude who unironically plays HS for a living

[@dartmansam10]

@@557deadpool sure you dont

[@MysticalRefpanel]

found a good comment

[@Skeeerttttt]

As a long time Yu-Gi-Oh player that gave up a long time ago, it's nice seeing an unbiased party talk about what's wrong with the game. The base game concept of Yu-Gi-Oh is fantastic and fun, but Yu-Gi-Oh is a zombie of its former self. The Complication-creep is insane. It doesn't need to be this way. Really want Rush Duels in English and wish Konami would just do a full reboot of the TCG.

[@AdamChopdat]

Hi I'm someone who went from hearthstone to yugioh. I'm sorry that chat was harassing you. I think both streamers agreed with you and your opinions are valid.

[@freezingcicada6852]

YGO, a lot of the complexity after you got the basic foundation of the game is deck building, tech cards and extra deck choices. A new player isnt going to understand that Lullaby of Obedience is a good tech atm, cause everyone is splashing Kashtira Fenrir into decks. But only for hail marry blow out. Or even some cards are confusing, like Small World. I guarantee someone could read that card 10 times and still dont know wtf it does. Though I still like the game. Its one of those games you play if you really enjoy doing your opponent dirty.

[@sterben5590]

its something unbeknownst to any new or casual players who aren't either theory crafting or being posted up with other relavant talk about the meta game and newest cards to be on top of the game. Even the most bland of tech cards we all just brush off as yeah whatever, any player will see raigeki at 3 in the tcg and say "how the fuck is that allowed". they wouldn't understand why TTT is popular if change of hearts is in the game or why lightning storm is used of their counterparts since they just dont know how far the game has advanced. it's become so advanced, that only those in the know of Lullaby, would pick out some super old card that weas so old it was made without intent of being playable against said meta. I only knew of Lullaby from duel links, and I still had to take a second why it was being ran in a Kash deck i just went up against. The new player experience is brutal in the tiniest of ways that would mostly be overlooked, but this talking hopefully gets brought up even more since the one time it was brought up during the komoney board meeting

[@RonJohn551]

I'll admit that YGO is super complex and confusing but you can't avoid all responsibility and blame just by saying "ITS HARD IDK WHAT TO DO I'M NOT READING ALL OF THAT ON STREAM" If you choose not to read all your cards and connect the dots on what to do with your deck IN ANY CARD GAME that's on you bro. The cards obviously have effects for a reason so if you just wanna go brrr and only care about stats and on top of that go in blind and not try to learn in any capacity that isn't the game's fault, that's 100% on you.

[@nouvelle147]

All the reason for a beginner format. This is like giving a dredge OTK deck to a mtg beginner and saying "Go, pop off"

[@RonJohn551]

@@nouvelle147 I totally agree. The game is not beginner friendly at all and Master Duel is a terrible way to actually try and learn the game. But it's also asinine to think you don't need to read anything or actually put in effort to win, which is what this guy was clearly doing and it's the experience he sought and was upset when it wasn't going his way. Don't like the fact that going first is strong? Build your deck for going second, there's plenty of board breaking cards available to you but you'll never know that for the above reasons.

[@nouvelle147]

@@RonJohn551 I think it's more that he felt that most of his other skills from different card games should transfer, and when they didn't he felt that he should be better at the game than he actually is

[@JesperoTV]

27:46 I have played yugioh competitively, and I play both Magic and HS. You are 100% right.

[@mauricioramirez5948]

It really makes me upset as a Yu-Gi-Oh player that other Yu-Gi-Oh players can't take valid criticisms of the game. It must suck having to learn from scratch like you did. I played from 2002-2009 then just barely got back into the game last year. While i knew the fundamentals, i was still overwhelmed by all the effects and summoning mechanics. I completely agree with you. I woildnt have improved if it wasnt for my friends helping me. Ive been going to local tournaments for three months now and I've won twice. Half the time i have to trust my opponent isnt cheating because its hard to know every aspect. I hope you know that not all players are dicks like the ones in your chat 😢😢

[@lefteron6804]

Like farfa said, I picked a deck, a looked a KZbin video explaining the combos, and it's how I scratched the surface. I really got to learn the game when I started playing the paper game at locals, and the people I played against helped me learn more nuanced stuff. I do believe that with a game as complicated as this, playing with a community is the best way to learn.

[@MansMan42069]

"Playing with a community" Isn't that what card games are supposed to be? And supposed to have been? Why is RawrXD acting like isolation is th deafult way to play?

[@MomirViggwilv]

MBT is maybe the funniest yugioh youtuber out there. I am now holding out hope for a Rarran MBT crossover.

[@ms77619]

MBT is good at stealing old farfa memes lol

[@MomirViggwilv]

@@ms77619 I don't remember Farfa saying "-ussy" so many times

[@residentgrey]

​@@MomirViggwilvinspiration happens. LOL